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NomzNomz
16th Feb 2015, 12:47
Whats echolocation you say? *whispers* Its the ability no one uses..

I'm sure a few of us have tried it out of curiosity, so I did too, but only getting the 7 day one. I admit it was better than I thought it would be. To those who have never seen it here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trcSatcy9mM

I played a few matches with it and I can summarize these:

Pros:

+ You can plan your kidnap/abduct route rather than guessing or having a rough estimate of where the humans are.
+ Echoing what I said above (pun not intended ;) ) you can see the humans behind walls, allowing a swift and surprising kidnap/abduct.
+ You can inform your team mates where the humans spawned.
+ You can clearly see where the humans are looking, allowing a safe pickup.

Cons:

- Visibility. You'll have to have some idea of the buildings and surroundings since they can barely be seen. Think you've got that human so very close? Nope, there's a wall.

- Replaces dive bomb, take off or air strike that are damaging abilities. Not really worth it.

Its not a "bad" ability. But sacrificing what the other abilities do isn't worth it imo. I've had thoughts on how to deal with it, but I quite like my most recent thought which is below.

# Sonic pickup: A new right click mouse button. The moment you activate it the echolocation effect is applied and lasts till time expires. I'd say this could be between Kidnap and abduct. For example doing light damage on pickup, lasting longer than abduct but not as long as kidnap. I'm sure there's a proper work around.

--Ram--
16th Feb 2015, 12:55
We really don't need another pickup variant.

Vampmaster
16th Feb 2015, 12:57
It's also stolen property! Justice for Turel!

lucinvampire
16th Feb 2015, 12:59
It's also stolen property! Justice for Turel!

Damn it you beat me to it...I was just going to say

Give echolation to the Tyrants :whistle:

Vampmaster
16th Feb 2015, 13:02
Damn it you beat me to it...I was just going to say

Give echolation to the Tyrants :whistle:

Or just rename if transferring would cause gameplay problems.

lucinvampire
16th Feb 2015, 13:16
Or just rename if transferring would cause gameplay problems.

Yeah...so it's not linked at all to the later abilities named the same as those evolved by the Turelim.

PencileyePirate
16th Feb 2015, 15:45
I like this skill on Sentinel but think it should either be buffed or moved to a different skill slot. If the name is an issue then rename it, but I'd rather the ability not get moved to a different class.

--Ram--
16th Feb 2015, 15:53
I like this skill on Sentinel but think it should either be buffed or moved to a different skill slot. If the name is an issue then rename it, but I'd rather the ability not get moved to a different class.

I agree, there is no way a tyrant would ever have the room to equip this without rendering themselves useless anyway.

Razaiim
16th Feb 2015, 15:55
The razielim were in an unlit cave for 300-500 years. Is it not reasonable for them to have evolved the ability as a reaction like Rahab's water exposure?

Also Echolocate has been "on the radar" since alpha with the only fix being the misleading tool-tip. Also everything under the sun has been suggested for it, with the bigger threads getting acknowledgement from devs. I've given up hope and use it in troll builds where we rolled as humans but am in one of those sentinel moods.

Vampmaster
16th Feb 2015, 16:06
The razielim were in an unlit cave for 300-500 years. Is it not reasonable for them to have evolved the ability as a reaction like Rahab's water exposure?

Also Echolocate has been "on the radar" since alpha with the only fix being the misleading tool-tip. Also everything under the sun has been suggested for it, with the bigger threads getting acknowledgement from devs. I've given up hope and use it in troll builds where we rolled as humans but am in one of those sentinel moods.

Sure, but it seems unlikely that the developers would have given them an ability called echolocation ability if they knew Turel already had it. They looked at his wings, and automatically thought "bat", despite documented information to the contrary. They were bat-like, or rather their wings were, but they weren't literally bats. Actually, they must have known that their evolution wasn't so specific, considering the devolved designs were inspired by insects.

Also, why would it have to be sound? Why not heat (there are animals that can see infra red and UV), or smell or some supernatural sense? It spoils the clan's individuality by crossing over their abilities. Plus Turel already had the sound in his backstory. He lost his vision in the dark smoky territory and evolved the sensitive hearing instead, hence the Turelim's huge ears.

Ygdrasel
16th Feb 2015, 16:55
Sure, but it seems unlikely that the developers would have given them an ability called echolocation ability if they knew Turel already had it. They looked at his wings, and automatically thought "bat", despite documented information to the contrary. They were bat-like, or rather their wings were, but they weren't literally bats. Actually, they must have known that their evolution wasn't so specific, considering the devolved designs were inspired by insects.

Also, why would it have to be sound? Why not heat (there are animals that can see infra red and UV), or smell or some supernatural sense? It spoils the clan's individuality by crossing over their abilities. Plus Turel already had the sound in his backstory. He lost his vision in the dark smoky territory and evolved the sensitive hearing instead, hence the Turelim's huge ears.

Their design isn't 'devolved' in the same sense as the other vampires. Their grotesque form is primarily the result of being locked and starving in a vault for ages rather than the corruption that mutated the rest. Their actual devolution, according to Daniel Cabuco, would have been dragon-esque.

The ability is fine on Sentinels. It just needs to be renamed and also made useful.

Vampmaster
16th Feb 2015, 17:00
Their design isn't 'devolved' in the same sense as the other vampires. Their grotesque form is primarily the result of being locked and starving in a vault for ages rather than the corruption that mutated the rest. Their actual devolution, according to Daniel Cabuco, would have been dragon-esque.

The ability is fine on Sentinels. It just needs to be renamed and also made useful.

I know where the Sentinel's devolution comes from, but it still works as evidence that the vampires didn't have one specific target species that they were evolving towards. It's obvious from SR1 that they were mutated mashups of various creatures traits.

Lord_Aevum
16th Feb 2015, 17:11
I don't think there can be any credible argument that the Razielim should have an Echolocation ability while the Turelim do not. In my opinion it's a plain and simple continuity error/oversight which could be corrected.

Ygdrasel
16th Feb 2015, 18:56
I know where the Sentinel's devolution comes from, but it still works as evidence that the vampires didn't have one specific target species that they were evolving towards. It's obvious from SR1 that they were mutated mashups of various creatures traits.

Turel went bats, Rahab went fish/eel, Zephon went spider...They had relatively specific targets.

PencileyePirate
21st Feb 2015, 11:12
I don't think there can be any credible argument that the Razielim should have an Echolocation ability while the Turelim do not. In my opinion it's a plain and simple continuity error/oversight which could be corrected.

There's a great argument: the skill fits Sentinel better than it would Tyrant, even if the name does not.

Still hoping this ends up in the Puncture/Wingflap slot.

Lord_Aevum
21st Feb 2015, 12:02
There's a great argument: the skill fits Sentinel better than it would Tyrant, even if the name does not.

That's a very weak argument, a) because I can simply disagree and opine that it'd have far better synergy with the Tyrant's kit, and b) because there is still no call for the skill to specifically involve echolocation or sound.

Coredusk
21st Feb 2015, 12:56
It's so cool ... But not useful enough. But so cool!