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View Full Version : Some thoughts after playing for a long time



Brackstone17
15th Feb 2015, 20:51
I've played this game since about April last year, and here are some thoughts about the game.

Maps and Human range- I think the biggest issue with the balance between humans and vampires is map balance and human range. The human range is self explanatory, and apart from maybe reducing the prophet's effectiveness at long range, I don't think it needs to be addressed directly. Human range is exacerbated by the map design, and that's what needs some looking at. Provance and Sommerdamm are in a good spot. I think the Fane is good with the recent changes, but the spawns for humans can be really predictable, and that might need looking at. Valeholm and Freeport stand out as maps that just need work, though. Both of these maps make it hard for vampires to actually set up for an attack since humans have excellent line of sight to most of the map.

For Freeport, I think the docks side of the map just doesn't have enough vantage points or safe approaches for vampires. The buildings are all very flat, and there's two easily accessible health stations nearby. Also, it's still super dumb that the waterline is a hindrance or danger to vampires. It really doesn't add anything to the game, and sentinels dropping people if they cross over the water is just as janky as if there were simply invisible walls, which I think is the better option. The water being an issue occurs fairly rarely, but it's still pretty stupid.

For Valeholm, I'm not going to say anything original or new, but instead point people to this thread as a good summary of the issues: http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=17802

Healing -So related to the maps and human sight lines, is the issue of vampire feeding. If a fight goes on long enough, a person killed at the start of the fight can get to a position to start attacking where the bodies were. I also think the time bodies remain on the ground should be increased, fights that go on even slightly too long can often leave some vampires without bodies to feed on. Again, an issue humans never have to face.

Finally, I think a single attack should knock humans out of the healing animation. As it stands, healing mid fight can be really easy. It's harder now with summoner and her ranged attacks, but it's still another way humans are able to heal themselves far easier than vampires. Basically, it's way easier for humans to heal than vampires, and that's a bit unfair since vampires have to work much harder for their healing.

Prophet Pistols - I'd actually like to see the old piercing pistols make a comeback. I think they'd be useful now with summoner in the game, and the current bleed effect is an interesting idea, but it's maybe a little too good on the prophet. I think she needs to lose some of her long ranged effectiveness anyway, and the current piercing pistols exacerbate the issue. Otherwise, I think the normal and quick pistols are perfectly fine right now, but the the heavy pistols might also bee a little too good.

Vampire Melee- This is by far my biggest complaint with the game right now, since it's something that's been a problem for so, so long, and hasn't really gotten better. I remember thinking this was an issue shortly after I started playing last April, and it hasn't gotten much better. Vampire melee abilities and charge attacks miss way, way too often at good pings. Whether it's bouncing off the enemies player model, going right through them, or the attack just not connecting, melee issues are way more prominent than they should be. It's particularly noticeable on deceiver primary abilities, sweeping kick and any charged melee attack. Tyrant is easily the one who suffers most from this.

Another issue I've only noticed recently is that the deceiver's backstab seems like it has super wonky aim assist. It can completely whiff against stationary targets, but other times, especially when there are two targets close together, the ability gains a mind of it's own and the deceiver seems to spin in place trying to track a moving target. So often the ability just seems like it's out of the player's control. Infect is much more consistent, but still can have similar issues.

Life Leech- This is probably a bug, but life leech ending deceiver invisibility is pretty annoying. Let disabling curse be the thing that does that, not an ability with aim assist.


I'm sure all of these things have been mentioned before, but I haven't seen some of these things mentioned much recently, and thought it worth bringing up again. The vampire melee issues I especially think should have been addressed long ago. On the plus side, I think the game has easily made huge improvements and has only gotten better over time.

kLauE187
15th Feb 2015, 21:10
one of the easist ways to balance humans vs. vampires without changing maps or balance lowlevel vs. highlevel game is to fix health stations. the problem with a few maps is that some spots are just way better than others. to fix this health stations need a few balancing changes. either cancel the use of it while attacked or increase the cooldown or lower the hp gained. 1 human can easy stop 2-3 vampires from feast, but 1 vampire cant stop 1 human from healing back when he has backup. thats one of the reasons human always have an advantage imo. to prevent humans from just camping one spot, health stations needs a nerf so humans are actually forced to swap positions because health stations are down.

--Ram--
15th Feb 2015, 21:52
Human range is exacerbated by the map design, and that's what needs some looking at. Provance and Sommerdamm are in a good spot. I think the Fane is good with the recent changes, but the spawns for humans can be really predictable, and that might need looking at.


Agree with the Fane being much better since the changes, however I still have one major problem with it:

http://imgur.com/v2Xq5xE

At the very least I think spawn locations should be changed to prevent this situation. It happens in the reverse situation to the picture as well. If I am a scout on bridge and we clean up I basically charge up and watch the guy spawn at the titty statue and insta power shot him before he can even break line of sight.


Valeholm and Freeport stand out as maps that just need work, though. Both of these maps make it hard for vampires to actually set up for an attack since humans have excellent line of sight to most of the map.


Very much agree that aspects of these maps need significant reworking. There needs to be less cross map lines of sight and more usable ledges above problem areas.



Vampire Melee- This is by far my biggest complaint with the game right now


Melee really does need some major work. It is a core part of the game yet much of the melee combat still feels wonky as hell. Attacks sliding off / going through people and having no effect is just plain bad.

After 900 games or so I know how to aim a sweeping kick or infect, but many times the ability just doesn't register when I know I could do the exact same thing another time and have it work. The difference between it landing or not landing is often a reaver dying horribly and the human target being killed. If I die as a reaver I want it to be because I got juked or made an error in judgement, not because I kicked someone but they body blocked me and as a result "didnt get hit" when quite clearly to body block me they have to get hit, and other such nonsense.

Tyrant charge attacks are just so bad that if a tyrant winds one up you can basically negate it 80% of the time (unless they are very good at it) by covering yourself in grease so he slides on by a.k.a. simply moving close to him. I don't want to feel like I'm attacking this guy.

http://statici.behindthevoiceactors.com/behindthevoiceactors/_img/chars/char_46095.jpg



Life Leech- This is probably a bug, but life leech ending deceiver invisibility is pretty annoying. Let disabling curse be the thing that does that, not an ability with aim assist.


Also hex shot, I feel like a broken record but getting abducted and throw combo raped by bright green vampires is incredibly frustrating.



I'm sure all of these things have been mentioned before, but I haven't seen some of these things mentioned much recently, and thought it worth bringing up again. The vampire melee issues I especially think should have been addressed long ago. On the plus side, I think the game has easily made huge improvements and has only gotten better over time.

Glad you did, if the things covered here are improved the game would be vastly more fun to play. I do appreciate the work being done, but I hope these critical factors are still set to see some much needed improvements.

Brackstone17
16th Feb 2015, 04:29
Agree with the Fane being much better since the changes, however I still have one major problem with it:

http://imgur.com/v2Xq5xE

At the very least I think spawn locations should be changed to prevent this situation. It happens in the reverse situation to the picture as well. If I am a scout on bridge and we clean up I basically charge up and watch the guy spawn at the titty statue and insta power shot him before he can even break line of sight.

Yeah, that area is really problematic since if you die in one corner, you almost always spawn in the opposite one. That said, I'm not sure how easily they could fix it, since it's not a discreet, isolated area like the part they already changed, but a line right across the map. I think the reverse of that picture is worse, since the geometry is complicated enough in the north-eastern corner that the fight will spread out over multiple levels. But in the south-western corner, it's much more open, so unless the fight is entirely behind the barricade and fountain, a scout will have line of sight. Maybe if the fountain got moved northward into that quarter circle area it would be enough of an obstacle, but that would make it pretty crowded.