PDA

View Full Version : how to make Nosgoth aesthetically better :)



Chulo86
11th Feb 2015, 23:47
before I had a few mean things to say, (that the game looks way to much like dead sun)
I want to try to clean this up and see what do other people think.

I don't have a problem with the tribal art
but is it still possible to make valeholm covered in snow?

http://s11.postimg.org/vr2xupjb7/BO2_Environment_Valeholm.jpg

if not can it be half snow and half burning village with a possible church somewhere in the background covered in snow or burning in lava?

http://s15.postimg.org/euc2qdrqz/Nosgoth_Location_Valeholm_Outside_Area.jpg

the next thing I wanted to discus was,
knowing that all of the human maps are located from the blood omen 2 era.
I would really appreciate if all of them are lore accurate.

http://s14.postimg.org/bzilqbmzl/maxresdefault.jpg

Freeport should have pine trees instead of palm trees.

http://s27.postimg.org/z89gj3343/nap4.jpg

and Sommerdamm should have broken fuse boxes ( and devises) of glyph magic.
broken vampire barriers, (some that still flicker green mist) and exposed piping both sprouting from underground and on the walls where the power once ran.

province can stay as is.

I know we had this argument before,
but the way how I see it is, when you >revisit< a timeline, the paradoxes have >always< happened.

the old timeline dies off, and a new timeline reshuffles it's self and accommodates to the events that just happened.

that's how I always seen it,
and if not then I guess I should take my entire LOK collection and set it on fire or throw it in the trash because it's already too confusing as is :P

so yah, I would really appreciate if those 3 maps were changed to be more lore accurate.
Valeholm, Freeport and Sommerdamm.

thank you for listening.

Ps. green water would be nice :)

Ygdrasel
12th Feb 2015, 00:08
Where is it ever said that this is the Blood Omen 2 era?

Even if it is, why should Sommerdamm have broken glyph magic boxes and all this? Meridian - the only place we see that stuff - was obliterated. That stuff wouldn't likely have survived. And in either case, Sommerdamm is a defensive settlement outside Meridian, not Meridian itself.

Why should Freeport have different trees? Valeholm is snowy in old concept art but that's hardly canon, being concept art...

What part of these changes makes anything more accurate to lore?

Vampmaster
12th Feb 2015, 00:35
@Chulo86 Why do you consider the climate of those areas to cannonically incorrect? Why would the water be green?

EDIT: I'm only asking because it helps to understand of how you came to your conclusions.

GenFeelGood
12th Feb 2015, 01:03
Is the green water related to the water in the vortex of the abyss in Soul Reaver?

Chulo86
12th Feb 2015, 01:40
@Chulo86 Why do you consider the climate of those areas to cannonically incorrect? Why would the water be green?

EDIT: I'm only asking because it helps to understand of how you came to your conclusions.

well..... in old threads I remember people saying that the land came to this state but only in places near the pillars, but when you look at the intro to soul reaver it looks as though the decomposition is already there. because valeholm has a cold climate, I'd image that mountain which you can see in both images suddenly erupted? :/

for the green water,
I'm hoping to see this in both the new maps and old. :)
like day and night cycles, there should be two versions of each map that have a natural state.

there's the healthy version and then there's the corrupted version. :)


Is the green water related to the water in the vortex of the abyss in Soul Reaver?

http://s22.postimg.org/dzukvj935/sr1_208.jpg http://s17.postimg.org/xjburl4kf/Screenshot_263.png http://s17.postimg.org/f9ras1vfj/89_Legacy_of_Kain_Soul_Reaver_4.jpg

yes, I also noticed that the water has a green tint on other areas.

EDIT: I was also going to add Zephon's mote and the sun glyph river but I couldn't find any images :P

Vampmaster
12th Feb 2015, 02:18
Wouldn't the fire have melted the snow or possibly warmer temperatures in the summer time. Didn't the blog say what the fire was from? Was it definitely the volcano?

The decomposition spread out and got worse over time, as far as I know. I can't find any reference to how far the corruption had spread beyond the areas in SR1 and both Freeport and Valeholm are further away from the pillars than we got to explore in SR1 as well. So it's hard to judge what sort of state those locations would be in.

The abyss was the only place in SR1 with green water wasn't it? I always thought there was something supernatural about it or maybe it was just algae or something.

Also, Nosgoth is set in the second timeline, where the hylden were never around to set up the glyph magic. The developers also mentioned when Defiance came out that all traces of hylden tech were wiped out before Raziel's time as a vampire, even after history was altered,

Chulo86
12th Feb 2015, 02:49
@Vampmaster.

now that I have a better understanding,
it looks as though zephon's clan was responsible for the burning villages.

early in the blog though it does say that the people of Valeholm do experience winter.
so maybe the snow is a seasonal thing vs climate? :/

it doesn't say anything about the volcano though.
but I would like to think it's the same one by the church :)

http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/valeholm-birthplace-of-the-ironguard


The developers also mentioned when Defiance came out that all traces of hylden tech were wiped out before Raziel's time as a vampire, even after history was altered,

I still have yet to see that interview.
plus, psyonix never mentioned what time line they are fallowing.
they just said it takes place during the events of soul reaver where raziel was inside the abyss.
for all we know it could be set in the fourth timeline. <<<< wishful thinking >:P

EDIT:
look, the main reason why I believe Nosgoth should have these changes, it's because nosgoth has areas in relation to blood omen 2. if we go by the time line thing then Valeholm, Freeport, Sommerdamm and provence should not exist within this world.

Psyonix would just be limited to The Fane and The Crucible and what ever else came within the second timeline.

you can't eat your cake and have it too....

Ygdrasel
12th Feb 2015, 16:08
if we go by the time line thing then Valeholm, Freeport, Sommerdamm and provence should not exist within this world.

...Says who? Says what?

These areas existed in Blood Omen 2. That is literally all we know about them outside of Nosgoth.
Did they exist in other timelines? The series doesn't say...Until Nosgoth, which said yes.

Varulven
12th Feb 2015, 18:39
I don't have a problem with the tribal art
but is it still possible to make valeholm covered in snow?

http://s11.postimg.org/vr2xupjb7/BO2_Environment_Valeholm.jpg

if not can it be half snow and half burning village with a possible church somewhere in the background covered in snow or burning in lava?

http://s15.postimg.org/euc2qdrqz/Nosgoth_Location_Valeholm_Outside_Area.jpg



What you see as snow could also be ashes from the erupting volcano ;)

RainaAudron
12th Feb 2015, 19:08
plus, psyonix never mentioned what time line they are fallowing.
they just said it takes place during the events of soul reaver where raziel was inside the abyss.
for all we know it could be set in the fourth timeline. <<<< wishful thinking >:P


They did. Nosgoth occurs in the second timeline and also in the fourth (SR1 era was never affected by any changes). So any events that did not happen in the second, are not part of this game´s backstory.

You can see several other areas covered in snow in the concept art, so this was just during a certain season, just like in SR2 we can see different seasons.

Maxximusblue
12th Feb 2015, 19:36
Who Gives a **** about lore in a multiplayer Competitive game?

Lord_Aevum
12th Feb 2015, 19:43
Who Gives a **** about lore in a multiplayer Competitive game?

Square Enix London does.

Maxximusblue
12th Feb 2015, 19:59
Oh yea the guys responsible for the **** servers ! gotta love them.

Ygdrasel
12th Feb 2015, 19:59
Who Gives a **** about lore in a multiplayer Competitive game?

...Do you just have no idea at all of the history of this series? o.O

Vampmaster
12th Feb 2015, 20:30
Who Gives a **** about lore in a multiplayer Competitive game?

You don't hijack a franchise renound for it's story if you plan on ignoring the very thing that made it so popular in the first place. We get that there's less room to include story in a multiplayer competitive game, but it would be very disrespectful if the developers has used the connections to Legacy of Kain to gain out initial support and then decided all of that was completely irrelevent.

Inrezairo
12th Feb 2015, 20:55
Who Gives a **** about lore in a multiplayer Competitive game?

I do!

And I would wager I am far from alone in this.

You could ask Riot the same, they have a tonne of lore in their game and it adds a wonderful layer of depth and user experience, I enjoy when I play a character that is the 'enemy' of the another character in a match and do try to bully that target more so because of it.

Chulo86
12th Feb 2015, 21:04
They did. Nosgoth occurs in the second timeline and also in the fourth (SR1 era was never affected by any changes). So any events that did not happen in the second, are not part of this game´s backstory.



If Nosgoth is indeed fallowing the second time line, then why are they using BO2 maps in this game?
(that's what I'm trying to ask everyone.)


What you see as snow could also be ashes from the erupting volcano ;)

I like that idea,
just like Malik's bastion that dumas clan reside in :P

EDIT:
in the end, I believe soul reaver 1 does takes place in the 4th timeline anyway.
unless something happened between BO2 and SR1.

Inrezairo
12th Feb 2015, 21:31
I like that idea,
just like Malik's bastion that dumas clan reside in :P


Malek's bastion is located on a summit within a large mountain range so it is not the location of the Dumahim clan. However I agree ash fall (tephra) would still be nice to see in a map close to volcanic activity.

Inrezairo
12th Feb 2015, 21:37
I like that idea,
just like Malik's bastion that dumas clan reside in :P


Malek's bastion is located on a summit within a large mountain range so it is not the location of the Dumahim clan. However I agree ash fall (tephra) would still be nice to see in a map close to volcanic activity.

Ygdrasel
12th Feb 2015, 21:51
If Nosgoth is indeed fallowing the second time line, then why are they using BO2 maps in this game?
(that's what I'm trying to ask everyone.)

These aren't "BO2 maps", they're locations in the land of Nosgoth. They're using these maps because these settlements existed during the time in which this war occurs, obviously.

That snowy Valeholm? Unused concept art for BO2. Doesn't mean Valeholm HAS to be snowy.
Sommerdamm? Never had a glyph magic system so it wouldn't have remnants of such a system.
The OP talks about lore accuracy while suggesting changes having nothing to do with it.


Malek's bastion is located on a summit within a large mountain range so it is not the location of the Dumahim clan. However I agree ash fall (tephra) would still be nice to see in a map close to volcanic activity.

While not precisely sharing space with Malek's Bastion, Dumah's territory does appear to be situated within the same mountain range according to the maps.

Chulo86
12th Feb 2015, 22:12
These aren't "BO2 maps", they're locations in the land of Nosgoth. They're using these maps because these settlements existed during the time in which this war occurs, obviously.



you can see Freeport and Provence listed on the map during the intro to blood omen 2.
velaholm is a unused location meant for BO2, and Sommerdamm is now officially a blood omen 2 location.

http://s18.postimg.org/didrlinnt/Meridian_Map.jpg

if BO2 is going to be referenced then there has to be BO2 lore.
that's the way I would do it.


Malek's bastion is located on a summit within a large mountain range so it is not the location of the Dumahim clan. However I agree ash fall (tephra) would still be nice to see in a map close to volcanic activity.

:P LOL!!! sigh, yah I thought they were the same,
they're both pretty close to the oracles cave so I figured well.... that must be it! :P

Lord_Aevum
12th Feb 2015, 23:12
Chulo86, the lore of Blood Omen 2 has not been invalidated. Anyone who understands the LoK series will agree that BO2 is canonical, including the team behind this game. They're actually leaving open complete freedom to believe that the incarnation of Kain who was shanked by the Sarafan Lord and shanked him back centuries later is one and the same as the Kain they mention in their blogs. Nosgoth deliberately glosses over the revived Sarafan and glyph magic because those elements constitute changes to the timeline. History abhors a paradox, and for various reasons we have to assume the paradox that resulted in those things did not alter the Soul Reaver era. Bringing up the particulars of the Hylden invasion would make a definitive statement that this period was impacted, which the rules of time in LoK dictate should probably not be true. They're wisely erring on the side of caution with this so as not to screw up the fundamental logic driving the rest of the series, and you would have to make a compelling argument that the era was changed to see those kinds of references. Either way, though, BO2 is still part of the backstory. The geography is all there. There's no need to set your Legacy of Kain collection on fire as if we're into reboot territory where games no longer "happened."

Chulo86
13th Feb 2015, 00:37
Chulo86, the lore of Blood Omen 2 has not been invalidated. Anyone who understands the LoK series will agree that BO2 is canonical, including the team behind this game. They're actually leaving open complete freedom to believe that the incarnation of Kain who was shanked by the Sarafan Lord and shanked him back centuries later is one and the same as the Kain they mention in their blogs. Nosgoth deliberately glosses over the revived Sarafan and glyph magic because those elements constitute changes to the timeline.

http://s17.postimg.org/b4lya4fe7/prestigehunter_final.jpg

well, isn't that a Sarafan symbol on the prestige hunter skin?


History abhors a paradox, and for various reasons we have to assume the paradox that resulted in those things did not alter the Soul Reaver era. Bringing up the particulars of the Hylden invasion would make a definitive statement that this period was impacted, which the rules of time in LoK dictate should probably not be true. They're wisely erring on the side of caution with this so as not to screw up the fundamental logic driving the rest of the series, and you would have to make a compelling argument that the era was changed to see those kinds of references. Either way, though, BO2 is still part of the backstory. The geography is all there. There's no need to set your Legacy of Kain collection on fire as if we're into reboot territory where games no longer "happened."

you see, the thing that sucks with this franchise is that everyone is taking the old interviews as law.
it's not that it's impossible but because of these misdirection's developers use to avoid spoilers for future installments.

developers do it all the time.
but you see, Amy Hennig is not directing/wrighting the story anymore.
the team at psyonix are, which means the old rules don't apply anymore.
(they can even add a pony and make it lore if they wanted)

besides, Amy doesn't care for the franchise anymore,
if she did then she would be here with us giving her input and not working for EA.

it doesn't matter though,
regardless of the evidence/arguments I provided in this and in other threads,
based on this feedback I can tell not many people are very exited about my suggestions...
leave the game as is I guess......

RainaAudron
13th Feb 2015, 14:46
well, isn't that a Sarafan symbol on the prestige hunter skin?

That is the old Sarafan order symbol, not the one from BO2.


you see, the thing that sucks with this franchise is that everyone is taking the old interviews as law.
it's not that it's impossible but because of these misdirection's developers use to avoid spoilers for future installments.

developers do it all the time.
but you see, Amy Hennig is not directing/wrighting the story anymore.
the team at psyonix are, which means the old rules don't apply anymore.
(they can even add a pony and make it lore if they wanted)

Untrue. The old interviews are valid and those statements are canon, as they were made by the developers of the franchise and provide more insight into LOK. Just because they are "old", it does not make them any less valid and SE chose to follow the story layed out by those devs.

Ygdrasel
13th Feb 2015, 18:03
you can see Freeport and Provence listed on the map during the intro to blood omen 2.
velaholm is a unused location meant for BO2, and Sommerdamm is now officially a blood omen 2 location.

if BO2 is going to be referenced then there has to be BO2 lore.

BO2 isn't referenced. There is not a single mention of BO2 or its events anywhere. "Oh, these places were seen in BO2 therefore they are always a reference to BO2!" -No. Untrue. Incorrect. Wrong.

They are locations in Nosgoth which exist in multiple timelines, one of which happens to be the line followed in BO2. That's it. And that's not the line Nosgoth is following. And Sommerdamm wasn't even in Blood Omen 2 so "Sommerdamm is now officially a blood omen[sic] 2 location" is just untrue.