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View Full Version : Tips for Deceiver and Alchemist please?



SixieV
1st Aug 2014, 05:30
Hey all I really love these two classes but I'm having a couple of problems.

With Deceiver I like this class because I'm good at getting in and messing with the other team, but I really suck at the primary attacks with the blade and the plague. It's just so awkward the way that he lunges forward for both that I always end up lunging past the enemy and missing then I'm exposed and they kill me right away. Of course theres no aim, no tutorial to teach me how to do this properly and no private lobby to practice on a friend with so I don't really have any opportunities to try to get it right without dying in a couple of seconds. Can someone explain to me exactly how I make the most out of these attacks and lower the chances I miss? I try to line them up with my right should but even then I miss if they move. I kinda wish this attack was activated through the mouse button with aim rather than Q.

With Alchemist the biggest problem I have is Sents abusing me and no one on my team really being able to stop them. One game I mustve had about 10 deaths because a Sent kept waiting for me to respawn and immediately swooping me up, dropping me and attacking me from behind until I died. As an Alchemist is there anything I can do to counter this or ward the Sent off a bit? I try to throw down toxin and light bomb to damage them a bit and give me time to dodge, turn around and fire but it never seems to help much as they kill me before I even know exactly where they are and it sucks to repeatedly die that way.

PencileyePirate
1st Aug 2014, 06:23
I use a mouse with side buttons and have both skills bound to mouse. Activating plague feels just like melee, except I use a different button.

Backstab is slightly delayed and lunges forward more, so you will need to predict player movement a little or attack directly from behind. Try to attack from dodge distance instead of melee distance, since if you're too close you'll often slide right past them. However, backstab is a little buggy at the moment (i.e. direct hits often do zero damage.)

As for alchemist, a good tactic against low-HP Sentinels is throwing a light bomb at a nearby surface to land splash damage the split second before you get grabbed. Since she is great at close/mid range defense, it also helps to stay behind your team and out of sight (but not out of range.) This aims to keep you from being the first one targeted and should allow you to score kills while saving your teammates. Although ... it's always a bit hard to play alchemist well if you don't have a decent Hunter and/or Scout on your team.

SixieV
1st Aug 2014, 06:37
About how close would you say I should be before the attack so I don't just slide right past them but not so far away that the attack doesn't touch them? I've been trying to play with this the best I can but I can't seem to get right before they realize I'm a faker on the team and start shooting. Or you know, the target moves while I'm trying to line it up.

I'd say I've tried about 1-2 steps away and miss. Also about 6-8 steps away and missed those too.

Also how do I switch keys? I tried to under Options cuz I hate sometimes hitting T instead of R and being stuck on chatbox, but I couldn't figure out how to get it to change?

Sasha_Vykos
1st Aug 2014, 07:23
Little tips for the deceiver:

- you can use either phase and illusions not only difensively but also offensively. For example you can activate phase and finish a low health enemy simply staying close to him or you can damage him and then try to backstab/poison him. When you attack an enemy and you're starting to have low health, you can use illusion to confuse the enemy and continue to attack.. it works many times for me!

- at medium-high level is quite difficoult to use disguise because enemy will target you immediately. So, when i play deceiver, my basic tactic is to use disguise to disappear and arrive possibly at the back of an enemy, use poison (don't remeber the name of the new ability) and go away with illusions. The ideal situation is a coordinated attack with your teammates and in this case you just continue to attack instead of going away from the fight.

- poison is easier to use than backstab.. is just like a standard attack but has a little bit more of "start time".. you just jave to practise the way it works. Basic thing is to predict the direction of the enemy when you will land the attack.

- when you find a solo enemy or when your teammates ingage the enemy team, use disguise. In the first case it's more difficoult for the solo enemy to recognize that you're a deceiver cause he can't see his teammates, and the same is in the second case because the enemies are busy with the fight so you can confuse them with you're aspect.

- you can try to poison an enemy and go away when the enemy team is camping an open area, only if you have a safe way to quit the fight. I prefer doing this in small area (also better because of the little "aoe" of the poisoned enemy) or in a fight obviously.

To change keys you have to set them in the "binding menu" in the option I think. It's quite easy to find it.

This is my way to play deceiver..I hope I helped you!

FireWorks_
1st Aug 2014, 07:53
The current deceiver backstab iteration is meant to be aimed right at the centre. That is pretty different to what it was before with the blade on the far right where youd have to "aim with the arm". So if you read hints, take them with a grain of salt depending on when they were written.
Currently just think of it as the puncture of the sentinel. Dead on in the middle of the screen. So do what you always do with melee strikes: Aim the centre of the screen at the target til you have numbers showing up confirming the hit. No more fancy right high approaching from the left, salt over the shoulder, clapping three times etc.


For alch vs sent... Echolocation is a ***** :D Just switch class until you can effectivly evade grabs blindly based on the sound they play. You can look around freely while you are dodging btw. Use it to get a good view of your surroundings (and your back).

SixieV
1st Aug 2014, 11:09
Thanks for the tips guys! I appreciate it and will try them out. I ended up in a lobby against all lvl 1s so I used it as a bit of practice. Good to know the blade is center now. I got in a couple of hits with it, but I still need loads of practice. For now I'm finding myself much more useful as a Reaver lol.

I will also practice dodging and looking around. I watch gameplay vids where some guys do this easily and sharply and thats not me at all. One of my biggest weaknesses is I lose people easily when dodging because I always get confused which way I'm facing and which way they went when we're both jumping around. I hope I get better at this.

Also I figured out how to switch my keys. YES! No more accidental chatbox! Thanks for that.

Whoopdidoohah
1st Aug 2014, 14:15
To add some more tips for Deceiver:

-Charged melee hits seems to hit more easily, it seems you lunge farther and land hits in a frontal arc instead of just in front of you (the initial charged melee hit animation swings both harms / claws in a mid to side sweep), if I can sneak behind a couple of ennemies I will do a charged melee attack like that and bring them close to half life in 1 hit, then I will use Infect and either dodge away with Illusions / shroud or keep swinging at them / shroud them from close in to deal max AoE damage. Charged melee hits for Deceiver are the best of all vampires, they rarely miss, and deal A LOT of AoE damage.

-If you want to use Dominate mind, I suggest you pop Illusions just before starting channeling DM, that way you have less chances of being spotted / gives you more time before getting spotted. I found it works relatively well, although DM is kind of underpowered right now.

-You can use shroud in the middle of a wall climb, so you can pop directly behind a group of ennemies that are standing on a ledge, to AoE damage them, or to get away from them if you're targeted when you climb.

-I suggest you should always wait for someone else to initiate as Deceiver's job is to DPS / finish them off and not go in head first like a Tyrant / Reaver / Sentinel can do, they have much more evasive playstyle (ignore pain / Evasion / Shadow step / being able to fly). A Deceiver has nothing when caught his pants down (and I dislike the fact that your HP bar shows up if you're damaged during Shroud, as if it wasn't obvious to being with, good humans barely break a sweat shooting at a shrouded Deceiver).

As for Alchemist vs Sentinel :

- Try using the blind instead of the light bomb, as you hear the screeetch sound, drop that and dodge, you should be able to evade their grab if you time it properly (although I don't really need to do it myself unless a guy like Raziel Warmonic keeps stepping on my nuts, but anyways, if you have trouble vs Sentinels, just pick another class to shoot them).

- If they land to puncture you / finish you off, use fire wall and spray them with your canon, you should be able to defend properly if you turn the camera 90 degree from where he landed and drop the fire wall on top of him as he lunges forward to hit you. If you get grabbed, always brace yourself for a puncture attack right after, so instead of running, look around and prepare yourself to drop firewall. You could also use flamethrower to counter that, as most Sentinels use Puncture instead of Wing flap, and flamethrower will make them regret chasing you (even better than Fire wall in that case). Dropping Poison cloud can also work, but you risk killing yourself as much as killing your oponent. In any cases, with your canon try aiming at the feet of the vampire so the shots you'll miss will still damage him.

SixieV
1st Aug 2014, 17:44
^So many awesome tips thank you!

I think I'm going to forget about the blade and go with plaque, I tried it out today and had lots of success. Plague them, melee a a couple of times, then shroud around them. And unlike blade plague got me 2 or 3 double kills. I didn't get as many overall kills as I'd like, left some of them just hanging on by a thread because their teammates killed me or MY life was hanging on by a thread and I had to get away, but I did have really high assists whenever my teammates were efficient enough to finish the job. So I definitely would have to work on it some more.

Many times I have been leading in invisible when things are quiet and using my surprise presence to cause a frenzy and have my teammates swoop in. Maybe this is part of my problem because like Whoop said Deceiver is pretty screwed taking the lead. I've pretty much been sacrificing myself repeatedly.

I did a bit better against Sents as well, but I really need to practice on recover a bit better and loading damage when I'm attacked from behind period. Today a Deceiver gave me the blues a couple of times plaguing and meleeing me from behind. If a Sent is ever pounding me repeatedly like the the situation I described I will take the advice and switch to Hunter or Scout. :D

PencileyePirate
1st Aug 2014, 19:14
About how close would you say I should be before the attack so I don't just slide right past them but not so far away that the attack doesn't touch them? I've been trying to play with this the best I can but I can't seem to get right before they realize I'm a faker on the team and start shooting. Or you know, the target moves while I'm trying to line it up.

I suggest the distance of a single dodge-roll.

Also, if you hold down the Disguise button when you activate it there is a ~5 second period of complete invisibility before the disguise kicks in. I usually sneak somewhat close before activating disguise, use the invisibility period to position myself, and then backstab.

MasterZtark
2nd Aug 2014, 13:02
Also, if you hold down the Disguise button when you activate it there is a ~5 second period of complete invisibility before the disguise kicks in. I usually sneak somewhat close before activating disguise, use the invisibility period to position myself, and then backstab.

SixieV, this invisibility period of time is the main reason to use Disguise. Eventually the whole "look like a human" aspect of the ability after it becomes useless, in fact it tends to hurt you far more than it will ever help you. It gets to the point where you almost never want to look like a human, so just use the invisibility to position (or whatever you want to do during that time) and when you're about to turn into a human just melee to break the ability.