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BlueCrosser
7th Feb 2015, 04:46
So.. As a human with some speed stats I cant run away from Vampires who mash the melee button. I run in a straight line as fast as I can and cannot get away from Vampires Melee which seems to travel faster than I can run. That does not seem balanced to me seeing as how vampires do way more damage up close and personal.

Whats the point of a run and dodge button if you cant out run a vampires melee attack?

Possible balance:
Vampire Melee dash range reduced

--Ram--
7th Feb 2015, 04:59
The point is in asymmetric games where one side is melee and one is ranged, the melee side always has the mobility advantage. That's what makes the game work. If you expect to just bail a fight and not be caught your expectations are hugely out of place. Fight the vamps and die with some honor mate, if you run you are going to die anyway 90% of the time. This is a common rookie mistake and point of view, but you need to get past it. It is certainly not a balance issue.

Razaiim
7th Feb 2015, 04:59
Each vampire has an extremely small slow that keeps you in range for their next attack. If you have sprint boost then they need to do roll/melee combo to catch you the first time, and each time after that. Remember that vampires can also have +move speed items as well.

TheDreamcrusher
7th Feb 2015, 05:13
Each vampire has an extremely small slow that keeps you in range for their next attack. If you have sprint boost then they need to do roll/melee combo to catch you the first time, and each time after that. Remember that vampires can also have +move speed items as well.

Indeed. I have a mysterious item Kidnap that boosts attack speed like the Frenzy perk and move speed as its second bonus.

BlueCrosser
7th Feb 2015, 05:24
That's why I'm asking why there is a run and dash button mate. If your a human and your teammates die your dead. You've got no chance whatsoever and the Vampires get a free kill. And don't tell me the vampires don't have long range moves.

Vampires Pros:
Climb
Heal after every kill
Auto heal after a few seconds
Choose when to attack
No fall damage
Melee slows
Melee has lock on assist

Human Pros:
Long range
Strength in numbers... kind of

--Ram--
7th Feb 2015, 05:30
After your teammates die the vampires should at least be softened up. I regularly clean up 1-2 or more vamps if I am the last guy left standing. I have pulled off multiple quad kills doing this. Find the lowest health one and kill it.

Dash can be used for increasing your movement speed. Can't believe this needs to be explained. If you think the only use for moving is fleeing from vamps then I can't help you.

PencileyePirate
7th Feb 2015, 05:56
Whats the point of a run and dodge button if you cant out run a vampires melee attack?

The point is that humans should never be trying to outrun vampires unless running toward their team, who must be fairly close and able to provide support. Rarely when vampires give chase from far away you can run to a refill station and heal before they arrive.

In most cases yous hould stand your ground and just shoot the vampire(s) to death, using well timed rolls to avoid charged melees and AOEs. This of course works best if you + your team equally match in number or outnumber the attacking vamps.

Ghosthree3
7th Feb 2015, 06:01
I actually find the opposite can happen sometimes. I'm chasing a guy and no matter how hard I try I cannot catch someone who is shift+W away. I guess they're running the movement speed perk but it's REALLY frustrating when they run all the way across their map with you nipping their heels just to be shot by their team mates. Reavers can probably do it, but Deceivers seem to fall just out of range with melee/roll chase.

ApollosBow
7th Feb 2015, 06:13
Don't run, die trying hard. Be......Pro'er

BlueCrosser
7th Feb 2015, 06:36
Well something is obviously wrong if every game I join Humans are quitting. You guys can disagree all you want but the proof is in the scores. I don't see you guys saying stick around and die as a vampire fighting, because all their abilities allow them to escape. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the game either way, but some slight improvements need to be made. Which is the whole point of the Beta.

PencileyePirate
7th Feb 2015, 08:10
Well something is obviously wrong if every game I join Humans are quitting. You guys can disagree all you want but the proof is in the scores.

Leavers are a separate issue that happens w/ both factions, and the scores are lying to you; in games with experienced players humans tend to be stronger. Vampires definitely don't need a nerf.

Da_Wolv
7th Feb 2015, 09:26
That's why I'm asking why there is a run and dash button mate. If your a human and your teammates die your dead. You've got no chance whatsoever and the Vampires get a free kill. And don't tell me the vampires don't have long range moves.

Vampires Pros:
Climb
Heal after every kill
Auto heal after a few seconds
Choose when to attack
No fall damage
Melee slows
Melee has lock on assist

Human Pros:
Long range
Strength in numbers... kind of

You can run away as a human, very successfully even. You just need to start moving before you have a Vampire all up in your business! Once he hit you, the slow efect will reduce your sprint speed slightly so he will be able to catch up.
If you manage to dodge the first 2 attacks and just howl away, you should do fine

EDIT:
Also: Heal after every kill- Not really!

Allegos
7th Feb 2015, 17:40
Leavers are a separate issue that happens w/ both factions, and the scores are lying to you; in games with experienced players humans tend to be stronger. Vampires definitely don't need a nerf.

You don't even have to get out of the new player bracket before you start seeing Human teams who find positions on the map that are easy to defend, who use the corners of the map to limit the Vamps' avenues of approach, who look for health depots on the minimap and use them, and who watch one anothers' backs instead of scattering like roaches while a teammate has a Reaver on top of him. It's definitely possible to learn how the Human team's winning strategy differs from that of the Vamps.

Ygdrasel
7th Feb 2015, 23:13
I run in a straight line

There's your problem.

You ever see a TV scene where a column or something is falling? The character tries to outrun it in a straight line rather than step to the side. And that inevitably works on TV. But not in this game.


I don't see you guys saying stick around and die as a vampire fighting, because all their abilities allow them to escape.

The point is you don't run away. You stay, you fight, you get better at the game. And in time, you don't die. (Mind, you always WILL die eventually because it is a deathmatch game. But you survive long enough to win the fight and get healed up, ideally.)

LorenCole
8th Feb 2015, 10:57
Don't run, just shoot. If you're the only one human alive, it's useless to escape, so just just and hope that you can bring one or two vampires with you to the Underworld. The only case where you can escape is when you're actually NEAR a fresh group of humans that can cover you and scare vampires.

LorenCole
8th Feb 2015, 11:09
Human Pros:
Long range
Strength in numbers... kind of

I'll add some other pros that worth be mentioned:

- They don't have to use abilities to kill vampires. Have you ever tried to attack as a vampire without spells/abilities? Initiatitng without charge, gas bombs or infections? It's IMPOSSIBLE for a vampire think to outrun a human group without scattering them.

Humans can kill vampires using only they're weapons, and using abilities just to "finish that vampire" a be sure of killing them.

- Strength in numbers. LOT OF strength in numbers. Two humans > one vampire. if a human group manage to kill just ONE vampire in the initial assault, they have the vantage of number. And is actaully easy to kill a vampire FAST during an assault.

- Stuns and CCs. A good prophet can kill in single combat a tyrant. How? Let him waste his abilities. Use Hex shot and drain his life, than shot him the hell out of you. Immolation can kill a group of vampires without so many difficulties. Bolas.... are bolas. So think about it.