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Psyonix_Corey
6th Feb 2015, 01:07
Hey guys,

Given the variety of Summoner feedback and multiple threads, I thought it would be useful to condense what we're currently thinking about doing with her in a single place, rather than replying in multiple places.

Abyssal Bolt aka "Abysmal Bolt"
This clearly needs a bit of tuning - we think the ability fared well from a feel standpoint, but it's clearly too easy to avoid and makes Hell Strike too obvious of a choice. We're still discussing modifications - shorter explosion time, movement speed slow inside the radius, etc. - but nothing final yet.

Hell Strike
We were worried about this ability being too situational (due to the lock-in-place aspect, but it's clearly not suffering too badly. We're looking into a more readable audio tell when it's cast and while it's in flight, and may tweak the numbers on it slightly, but otherwise feel it's in a good place for now.

Summon Stalkers / Summon Slayer
Pets are undergoing an overhaul of their AI and pathing to be more reliable. Beyond that, stuff we're looking at:

Reducing pet HP, but giving them some AOE resistance
Having Stalkers be bound to Summoner, requiring her to engage to use them
Making the summon cast more involved, and/or making the pets emerge more slowly
Making pets more susceptible to slows or damaging attacks, e.g. allowing human attacks to stagger them in some capacity.
Adjustments to pet lifetime vs. cooldown on ability. We could consider having the cooldown not start until the pets are slain, for instance.

We don't want to overnerf pets as they could easily become utterly terrible. But we'd like to make changes that discourage Summoners from mindlessly casting them from a rooftop. As for the potential HP change - we think they may be using too much of the average clip from weapons, but simply reducing HP will make them too easily dispatched by random AOE/splash damage.

In general we like pets when they are used tactically and intended for specific targets or groups, not autocasted in the hopes the AI seeks out something blindly.

Abyssal Barrier
Think this is in an OK place for now, besides the difficulty in maneuvering with F held down.

Additional Abilities
Our primary focus is adding more variety to her F (Abyssal Barrier) slot. We are experimenting with a personal Shield mechanic for her that scales based on players affected, so 1 human nearby creates a weaker shield than 4. We're also looking at more pet varieties, ways to enhance summons, and alternates for the Special Attack (RMB) slot that could mix her playstyle up similar to Pounce->Sweeping Kick.

ApollosBow
6th Feb 2015, 01:23
I can understand binding stalkers to the summoner because there's 2 and it is a lot of confusion if there 4 pets by themselves with 2 summoners lurking behind somewhere. Hopefully not going to reduce HP by much because right now i think pets are weak, my slayer (the stronger one) gets killed in no time, hes either a 2 second distraction or enough to finish off someone below 150 health. I fear the HP reduction will make her primary slot meaningless, I think id prefer extra sensitivity to AOE damage than HP reduced. Hopefully everything works out ok. If going with less HP consider a speed increase on the Slayer summon since hes a bigger target. Also personal selfish request incoming - Id like the idea of another team helping ability.

Thank you very much for keeping us informed.

Vampmaster
6th Feb 2015, 01:24
@Corey, oooh shades! Can we have shades from SR2 and Defiance? They're supposedly made up of fragments of left over souls just like how the ghouls are left over flesh, so I imagine they'd be fairly easy for necromancers like the Melchahim to create.

Khalith
6th Feb 2015, 01:35
Abyssal Bolt aka "Abysmal Bolt"
This clearly needs a bit of tuning - we think the ability fared well from a feel standpoint, but it's clearly too easy to avoid and makes Hell Strike too obvious of a choice. We're still discussing modifications - shorter explosion time, movement speed slow inside the radius, etc. - but nothing final yet.

Sounds good.


Hell Strike
We were worried about this ability being too situational (due to the lock-in-place aspect, but it's clearly not suffering too badly. We're looking into a more readable audio tell when it's cast and while it's in flight, and may tweak the numbers on it slightly, but otherwise feel it's in a good place for now.

The numbers are good, it just needs a more visual cue, as is if you see it coming it's incredibly easy to dodge and negate most if not all the damage from it. Besides that it's good as is.


Summon Stalkers / Summon Slayer
Pets are undergoing an overhaul of their AI and pathing to be more reliable. Beyond that, stuff we're looking at:

Reducing pet HP, but giving them some AOE resistance
Having Stalkers be bound to Summoner, requiring her to engage to use them
Making the summon cast more involved, and/or making the pets emerge more slowly
Making pets more susceptible to slows or damaging attacks, e.g. allowing human attacks to stagger them in some capacity.
Adjustments to pet lifetime vs. cooldown on ability. We could consider having the cooldown not start until the pets are slain, for instance.


Pet HP is fine, if anything they need their HP kept as is + the aoe resistance. Alchemist already tears through the pets easily as can a few shots from any class, reducing the Stalker HP will make them too easy to get rid of. Having the summoner have to engage to attack is fine, disagree on the speed. Otherwise you get a situation where the summoner has to jump in, cast her summons, THEN attack to get them to engage. It would be way too easy to CC her and kill her in that situation, the pets need to be summoned faster if she has to engage with it.

The pets are already susceptible to the CC and stuns and aoe, they're too easy to kill. If you're going to nerf their hp and cast time then they will need much more attack power to compensate to make them at least somewhat a priority target. Also, if the case is what you're doing then having the cooldown start as soon as they're summoned is a much better idea.


We don't want to overnerf pets as they could easily become utterly terrible. But we'd like to make changes that discourage Summoners from mindlessly casting them from a rooftop. As for the potential HP change - we think they may be using too much of the average clip from weapons, but simply reducing HP will make them too easily dispatched by random AOE/splash damage.

Forcing the Summoner to cast them from a more vulnerable position is a bad idea, they're fine for being cast on the rooftop if you force the summoner to have to attack in some way (hint: hell strike or abyssal should cause the summons to attack). Also, if the summons don't engage until the summoner does, the Stalkers/Slayer should automatically attack if the summoner herself is attacked. The summons are already too easily dispatched by aoe/splash damage.




Abyssal Barrier
Think this is in an OK place for now, besides the difficulty in maneuvering with F held down.

Only change I'd like to see is for the ability to not be tied to a hold, it should be a fire and forget to make it easier on the hands to move while channeling, if we need to break the channel we can dodge roll.

PencileyePirate
6th Feb 2015, 01:38
Abyssal Barrier
Think this is in an OK place for now, besides the difficulty in maneuvering with F held down.

IMO either movement speed reduction should be eliminated or an extra second should be added to duration.

Most of the other stuff sounds pretty good. Personally I think binding the pets to Summoner is a great idea, but don't really like the idea of slowing the summoning or emergence (this would make them too difficult to activate successfully mid-battle.)

Thanks for the updates!

ApollosBow
6th Feb 2015, 01:42
Abyssal Bolt aka "Abysmal Bolt"
This clearly needs a bit of tuning - we think the ability fared well from a feel standpoint, but it's clearly too easy to avoid and makes Hell Strike too obvious of a choice. We're still discussing modifications - shorter explosion time, movement speed slow inside the radius, etc. - but nothing final yet.

Perhaps add in a movement speed penalty for whoever is in its range, like unable to sprint or jump because of gravitational pull.

cmstache
6th Feb 2015, 03:09
Honestly, the only real issue I've come across with the summoner is the summon stalker activation. Abyssal Bolt I have ZERO issues landing. However, It's often a huge pain to hold my "q" down while trying to look with my mouse and move with w,a,s,d at the same time. It often opens me up for damage i shouldn't take just because I can't press 3 keys with 2 fingers. While I've managed to deal with it, I feel it's something that really needs to be looked at.


As far as summons eating clips, I'm glad. It's making Alchs more commonly viable, which is good. They've always been the underdog class. I personally haven't had an issue using ammo wisely with the pets around. Even with 3 or 4 summoners on the opposite team.

netmota
6th Feb 2015, 03:10
I realise that we can't cast the stalkers while jumping. It could be usefull in especific situations. Perhaps because of cast animation that summoner does?

-Konf-
6th Feb 2015, 04:40
Great post Corey, it's exciting to see you guys work on the class and make iterations so soon to make her better.

Hell Strike - the only issue I have with this spell is that when facing it you feel that you don't have an opportunity to react to it, unless you see a Summoner cast it. The audio cue in the upcoming patch should make it easier. Need to play with that and see if that's enough or if it needs more balancing. I wouldn't rush with changing the ability on many fronts simultaneously. Summoner doesn't have any damage potential outside her RMB, therefore I'm concerned that visual cue or damage reduction might be too much. I just really hope this skill gets re-iterated slowly, one step at a time.

Abyssal Barrier - I wouldn't want to let go of the shield control functionality and make this ability "click and forget". Here's a suggestion - how about toggle on/off by pressing the button instead of having to hold/release it? Gives players an option to control their shield duration or simply leave it there for 3 seconds if they wish to do so while leaving you flexible to move around.

Ghouls - there is always fear to make them useless, but you guys seem to be on top of that. I can see how this is hard to balance out. I guess our best chance is to take it one step at a time and compare the gameplay and what impact the changes make until we reach the perfect formula.

Additional Abilities - this is a feedback thread and I don't want to deviate from that, but since you brought it up, how about a skill that creates a magical barrier ("Shadow Bulwark") on the ground (similarly to how Fire Wall is made) that Humans can't shoot through? It could be placed tactically in combat to isolate targets and can be a great support skill for Vampires that requires clever use. It would have a certain damage threshold of course so that Humans can bring it down instead of having to run through in order to help their teammates.

Great work on the Summoner, looking forward to polishing her out!

TheDreamcrusher
6th Feb 2015, 05:16
Thank you for the update!

Abyssal Bolt
I really like the idea of a slow effect being applied over the duration of the countdown to explosion. A snare effect for the vampire side would be incredibly handy and would foster teamwork for several abilities.

Summon Stalkers/Summon Slayer
What I feel like is that if human plays stay on the move, the summons actually have trouble keeping pace. I'm not referring to their pathing but their traveling and attack speed. I was able to move at regular speed and never take damage from stalkers even though they were basically on me for their duration. I think it would be cool if the stalkers had a travel speed similar to a sprinting human.

What about raising a stalker from a body that hasn't been executed to have a wraith that leeches small amounts of health when it strikes?

Additional abilities
I mentioned it in another thread but I'd like to put it out again here, but how about an ability that can disrupt or absorb human area-of-effects? Something that could end an Arrow Volley or Fire Wall?

--Ram--
6th Feb 2015, 05:51
I agree with everything you said Corey except perhaps the summons taking longer to conjure. It is good to know that you guys are on the ball as usual. :thumb:


I can understand binding stalkers to the summoner because there's 2 and it is a lot of confusion if there 4 pets by themselves with 2 summoners lurking behind somewhere. Hopefully not going to reduce HP by much because right now i think pets are weak, my slayer (the stronger one) gets killed in no time, hes either a 2 second distraction or enough to finish off someone below 150 health. I fear the HP reduction will make her primary slot meaningless, I think id prefer extra sensitivity to AOE damage than HP reduced. Hopefully everything works out ok. If going with less HP consider a speed increase on the Slayer summon since hes a bigger target. Also personal selfish request incoming - Id like the idea of another team helping ability.

Thank you very much for keeping us informed.

The pets will never be strong enough to accomplish much by themselves. If you aren't engaging with them you should expect them to get disintegrated instantly. Engage with them and they absorb ccs and/or multiple bullets that gives you the opportunity to have a strong melee presence. 500 damage into a slayer is 500 damage that hasn't been directed at your team. That is by no means trivial.

WombTickler
6th Feb 2015, 06:18
I highly recommend rebinding abilities to mouse buttons if you have them, to avoid the issues with Q, F.

Personally I just want summoners to be more fast paced, the pet change should help, but I still think the range on hellstrike will always see summoners sitting on rooftops and only coming down to clean up.

I really dislike having summoners on my team, if I'm playing deceiver I have to initiate and get targeted by the entire human team as no one else is physically in the fight.

--Ram--
6th Feb 2015, 06:29
I highly recommend rebinding abilities to mouse buttons if you have them, to avoid the issues with Q, F.

Personally I just want summoners to be more fast paced, the pet change should help, but I still think the range on hellstrike will always see summoners sitting on rooftops and only coming down to clean up.

I really dislike having summoners on my team, if I'm playing deceiver I have to initiate and get targeted by the entire human team as no one else is physically in the fight.

I think once hellstrike has a better audio tell, and if the lil dude summons require the summoner to engage to function, the pace of summoner games may pick up. I get incredibly bored and frustrated already if my team composition doesn't allow me to get into the fray as a summoner. Usually this is when there are 3+ summoners who have no intent to put themselves on the line.

With a smoke reaver and a tyrant I have had really fun quite fast paced games with dual summoners, where humans were wiped as per a regular game of Nosgoth

Ygdrasel
6th Feb 2015, 06:49
A lot of this sounds fine. I'm excited to see what new F-slot stuff comes out. But I very much worry about the pets being over-nerfed because of the players who just mindlessly vomit them from rooftops.

I join in the fight alongside my pets more often than not. Sometimes I'll just cast the Stalkers as an obstacle while I flee from impending death but that's far from blindly throwing them out there. As for visibility, you're already visible enough while summoning Slayers. Not sure how to handle it for Stalkers.

Requiring engagement to activate the pets, I don't like much. I prefer to engage after they've already started in on the fight themselves. It just makes more tactical sense. But this is clearly going to be a tricky balancing act so good luck to all of you fine Psionix folk.

I still think an alternate barrier that trades duration for returning absorbed damage to the attacker would be a neat ability. If it's not too powerful, of course.

absinthesize
6th Feb 2015, 07:14
once i get my deceiver to 25 ill give my summoner a go, the fact that it spawns two minions similar to illusions except...you know...they do things, makes me intrigued.

Sasha_Vykos
6th Feb 2015, 07:54
I agree with everything you said Corey except perhaps the summons taking longer to conjure. It is good to know that you guys are on the ball as usual. :thumb:



The pets will never be strong enough to accomplish much by themselves. If you aren't engaging with them you should expect them to get disintegrated instantly. Engage with them and they absorb ccs and/or multiple bullets that gives you the opportunity to have a strong melee presence. 500 damage into a slayer is 500 damage that hasn't been directed at your team. That is by no means trivial.

That's a good point and that's how the pets should be used in my opinion.
I really hope you developers will find a good way to stop summoners cast pets on the roofs, as said. Thanks for reading feedbacks and thanks for the update, you are making a good job listening players!

Lord_Aevum
6th Feb 2015, 12:51
@Corey, oooh shades! Can we have shades from SR2 and Defiance? They're supposedly made up of fragments of left over souls just like how the ghouls are left over flesh, so I imagine they'd be fairly easy for necromancers like the Melchahim to create.

Not outside the realm of consideration, I'm sure. ;)

FireWorks_
6th Feb 2015, 14:22
Most about balancing has been said already, so Ill have a shot at usablity:

Hellstrike / Abyssal Bolt
Hellstrike and Prophet Curses share the same targeting mechanism. I am a bit baffled why they dont share the same key. It is counterintuitive coming from the prophet play.
Also the short time of standing almost still would have way less impact from a Q or F slot.
IIRC hellstrike cant be interrupted anymore once triggered, by releasing rmb that is.

With the similarities between grenades and the Abyssal Bolt. I could see the HF/AB slot move to Q or F pretty easily while reducing the other problems of the current default keys.

Ghouls
The instant calling for the 2 lesser ones is pretty ok. However the targeting with Q for the big one is as others already said pretty clunky.
I was wondering why it is needed in the first place but I assume you have solid playtest results why this targeting mechanic is introduced. Id personally like to have both skills to use an aim mechanic and be able to specify a target (but mandatory so you can still cast lesser ghouls without it as defense while running away).
The aiming mechanic fits the Dominate mind and pounces (focus+trigger) and the current lesser ghoul could still be the quick Leap Attack. To me this is a definite RMB skill, especially with the summons being the Summoners trait.

Abyssal Barrier
Ze shield... Holy sitting duck of boredom.
Gameplaywise I would love to be able to cast this while being mid air. Some kind of initiating variation would be nice.
But anyway the controls:
Holding F is a pain. Why not make it like Flamethrower/Shroud - Activate and cancel it with a dodge or attack. This skill is most of the time either followed by a dodge to get out of the way or by an attack (or it runs out), so why not cater to this.
If you really want, you can even allow an ability to cancel it, but I think this would be a bit too much (still fiddeling with GCD/noGCD)



tl;dr
So my suggested default controls:

RMB: [Summons] - Aiming : Releasing with LMB similar to [Pounce] and [Leap Attack]
Q : [Hellfire] and [Abyssal Bolt] - Due to the same aiming like [Curses] and various[Grenades]
F : [Abyssal Barrier] - Activate instead of hold mechanic : Cancel it with a dodge roll and a melee attack (maybe even an another ability




What do you guys think about it?

cmstache
6th Feb 2015, 15:20
You can't move while charging the bolt then. That's a huge issue. It needs to stay on the RMB, which creates an issue with the summon.

n00byf00
6th Feb 2015, 16:18
I think this is a great post, I think it's really on point with the Summoner issues. Hellstrike is okay in general but needs a better tell. Abysmal Bolt needs a slight push whether it's a shorter duration, more damage on the tick part, or my favorite, a slight slow effect.

Barrier is fine I think. But I'd really like an alternate in that slot, maybe a movement ability, but that might be a bit much.

The biggest and most sensitive issue is the pets. I think the real issue is they're a bit too resilient. You guys obviously knows what's up when it comes to that. But when I'm fighting with summoners, getting attacked by 4 while they continue to idle far away constantly is the only time I find them annoying and not compelling. Just because they take too much time to kill

FireWorks_
6th Feb 2015, 16:27
You can't move while charging the bolt then. That's a huge issue. It needs to stay on the RMB, which creates an issue with the summon.

Change the charge to a windup then. If you must have a cancel for it, do it via dodge like with puncture, kick, etc.

I dont see the issue there, compared to what it solves the other way.

The_Hylden
6th Feb 2015, 17:00
What about raising a stalker from a body that hasn't been executed to have a wraith that leeches small amounts of health when it strikes?


If I read this right, you're asking to raise ghouls/wraiths from the fallen humans on the battlefield?

If you mean something else, then this doesn't apply, but in regards to the ghouls (and of wraiths in this same category), things like this take a long time to develop in the Spectral Realm to become soul-eaters. It takes centuries for vampire wraiths, and in the blog on the ghouls, they need to meld their own fallen clan vampires with other lesser souls already in Spectral in order to create those. Human souls basically are the food in the Spectral Realm for everything. They don't evolve into soul eaters in any way. I am sure it takes time to cultivate the ghouls into creation.

Ygdrasel
6th Feb 2015, 17:50
Id personally like to have both skills to use an aim mechanic and be able to specify a target

Isn't the whole point that Stalkers don't have a specific target though? Stalkers are just feral wildlife let loose. Slayers are directed to a particular target. That's why they take longer to summon too.

FireWorks_
6th Feb 2015, 18:01
Isn't the whole point that Stalkers don't have a specific target though? Stalkers are just feral wildlife let loose. Slayers are directed to a particular target. That's why they take longer to summon too.

Either way, they can use the current pounce mechanic (RMB) with the instant (yet somehow "aimed") Leap Attack for the lesser summons. Which simplifies the rest of the control scheme by a large margin.

TheDreamcrusher
6th Feb 2015, 18:22
If I read this right, you're asking to raise ghouls/wraiths from the fallen humans on the battlefield?

If you mean something else, then this doesn't apply, but in regards to the ghouls (and of wraiths in this same category), things like this take a long time to develop in the Spectral Realm to become soul-eaters. It takes centuries for vampire wraiths, and in the blog on the ghouls, they need to meld their own fallen clan vampires with other lesser souls already in Spectral in order to create those. Human souls basically are the food in the Spectral Realm for everything. They don't evolve into soul eaters in any way. I am sure it takes time to cultivate the ghouls into creation.

That's what I meant. :) I can see you're very versed on the lore. I just thought it might be a cool idea.



Additional Abilities - this is a feedback thread and I don't want to deviate from that, but since you brought it up, how about a skill that creates a magical barrier ("Shadow Bulwark") on the ground (similarly to how Fire Wall is made) that Humans can't shoot through? It could be placed tactically in combat to isolate targets and can be a great support skill for Vampires that requires clever use. It would have a certain damage threshold of course so that Humans can bring it down instead of having to run through in order to help their teammates.

I like this idea. Provide an opening for a Tyrant Charge or divide a human party.

Additional Abilities
Another idea for the Abyssal Barrier slot might a self-sacrifice of blood (health) to empower summons, sort of a gamble for a possible victory but allows a method to specialize in summoning. Limits on this could be not being able to regenerate the sacrificed health or be able to use it under a certain amount.

TendrilSavant
6th Feb 2015, 22:51
Summon Stalkers / Summon Slayer
Pets are undergoing an overhaul of their AI and pathing to be more reliable. Beyond that, stuff we're looking at:

Reducing pet HP, but giving them some AOE resistance
Having Stalkers be bound to Summoner, requiring her to engage to use them
Making the summon cast more involved, and/or making the pets emerge more slowly
Making pets more susceptible to slows or damaging attacks, e.g. allowing human attacks to stagger them in some capacity.
Adjustments to pet lifetime vs. cooldown on ability. We could consider having the cooldown not start until the pets are slain, for instance.


These all sound good changes, but it's hard to say which combination works best. Any mix of these will change the pets effectiveness at different situations.

The biggest issue I'm seeing that beginners and intermediate players are having is against Summoners that hug edges to cast Stalkers from the safest position possible.

Deceiver Illusions spawn from him, but Summoner pets spawn in front of her allowing you to "drop them" on players hugging walls. Was this intended?

bas1c-
7th Feb 2015, 01:54
yeah, and also as a prophet you should be able to life tap them

--Ram--
7th Feb 2015, 04:46
yeah, and also as a prophet you should be able to life tap them

you can.

Razaiim
7th Feb 2015, 05:24
I would prefer not changing how the slayer works mechanically, and just boost his AI and pathfinding. I enjoy using him to hunt down a weaker player while i target some one else.

AriocM
7th Feb 2015, 05:55
Does anyone really use slayer pet? I mean the 2 dumbfire pets are far superior. Not only do they have a higher chance of actually getting to the target (due to the target having to focus on one while the other gets in), but the work well as a distraction while the Summoner engages in melee much like the Zephonim's shadow selves do.

The Slayer is larger, easier to target and forces the Summoner to stop and target a player. When chasing down a weakened human who is out running you, the 2 wraith pets move faster than players and can be fired off to finish them off. The slayer requires me to stop and target the player.

In every situation I've tried with the slayer it always seems preferable to use the 2 wraith pets. Just setting them off near the weak player is enough to get them to target him or her.

GenFeelGood
7th Feb 2015, 18:36
Summon Stalkers / Summon Slayer
Pets are undergoing an overhaul of their AI and pathing to be more reliable. Beyond that, stuff we're looking at:

Reducing pet HP, but giving them some AOE resistance
Having Stalkers be bound to Summoner, requiring her to engage to use them
Making the summon cast more involved, and/or making the pets emerge more slowly
Making pets more susceptible to slows or damaging attacks, e.g. allowing human attacks to stagger them in some capacity.
Adjustments to pet lifetime vs. cooldown on ability. We could consider having the cooldown not start until the pets are slain, for instance.

We don't want to overnerf pets as they could easily become utterly terrible. But we'd like to make changes that discourage Summoners from mindlessly casting them from a rooftop. As for the potential HP change - we think they may be using too much of the average clip from weapons, but simply reducing HP will make them too easily dispatched by random AOE/splash damage.

In general we like pets when they are used tactically and intended for specific targets or groups, not autocasted in the hopes the AI seeks out something blindly.


1)That eliminates the drain curse defense against them for the Prophet.
2)Only if you make it to where they focus on the same human the Summoner is fighting, I prefer this for the Slayer in all honesty.
3)I'd prefer a stronger sound ques to their presence so you know they are there sooner.
4)They are slow enough as is.
5)I don't like this, it means we'd have to wait longer to attempt our next maneuver when we are playing Summoner, we aren't just gonna jump in because the wait is too long. This girl doesn't last long on her own, out in open combat.

This spamming of ghouls really isn't so effective that it requires drastic change. A single drain curse can wipe out all the ghouls if they are in the field. This is the first class that has made spamming the Hunter class no longer the go to, because they don't have extended AoE abilites. There is now more call for a diverse human team in a match than there has been before.

Edit
I think the ghouls should move like the wraiths from Soul Reaver, as the crow flies. They should scale walls not waste time going around to the stairs. Its not like they need to be planted, they are legless spirits that hover off the ground.

calypso-694
7th Feb 2015, 18:52
I know this is about Summoner, but when will deceiver get some more abilities? the 3 main vamps (reaver,tyrant,sentinel) all have a bunch of abilities. he's a mentalist so why not give him an ability that messes with humans minds making them see things or make a team mate look like a vamp. idk

Cristari
7th Feb 2015, 22:35
Additional Abilities
Our primary focus is adding more variety to her F (Abyssal Barrier) slot. We are experimenting with a personal Shield mechanic for her that scales based on players affected, so 1 human nearby creates a weaker shield than 4. We're also looking at more pet varieties, ways to enhance summons, and alternates for the Special Attack (RMB) slot that could mix her playstyle up similar to Pounce->Sweeping Kick.

Abyssal Barrier alternatives:
Sanctuary: A domed barrier cast around the player for a limited period of time offering a) Healing/Blood Sacrifice b) Protection from Projectiles but not Cast AOE (Disabaling Curse, etc)
Necromantic Summons: Area Cast This spell will bring the dead back to life under the feet of the enemy holding them down and causing stumble on running players with a minor Tick Damage (Basically a slow)

I would like to see her as a puppet master with Summons on RMB, F and Q So Perhaps a Strong Targeted Summons with the RMB Stalkers or Slayers on Q and my Necromantic Summons on F (This may be slightly OP bbut I'm sure there is a way it can be balanced out.

I would love to see another alternative to Abyssal Bolt and Hellfire. How about a Aimed Quick-fire Alternative similar to a sub-machine gun but with reduced damage and a wide spray using up some sort of ammo replenished when feeding or spawned. Kind of a Short range weapon in effect.

I thought I'd add these here since I have already mentioned them elsewhere.

Da_Wolv
7th Feb 2015, 23:09
Hell Strike
We were worried about this ability being too situational (due to the lock-in-place aspect, but it's clearly not suffering too badly. We're looking into a more readable audio tell when it's cast and while it's in flight, and may tweak the numbers on it slightly, but otherwise feel it's in a good place for now.

I would simply reduce the travel speed of the projectiles in addition to adding a more audible tell.
other then that I think this Ability is in a good place.



Abyssal Barrier
Think this is in an OK place for now, besides the difficulty in maneuvering with F held down.

I've posted this somewhere already, but:
Why not make the Barrier her RMB?
The Orb an Hell Strike can be activated by toggle with E, no problem - but its much easier to walk around while holdind down RMB.

Ygdrasel
7th Feb 2015, 23:10
Abyssal Barrier alternatives:
Sanctuary: A domed barrier cast around the player for a limited period of time offering a) Healing/Blood Sacrifice b) Protection from Projectiles but not Cast AOE (Disabaling Curse, etc)
Necromantic Summons: Area Cast This spell will bring the dead back to life under the feet of the enemy holding them down and causing stumble on running players with a minor Tick Damage (Basically a slow)

I would like to see her as a puppet master with Summons on RMB, F and Q So Perhaps a Strong Targeted Summons with the RMB Stalkers or Slayers on Q and my Necromantic Summons on F (This may be slightly OP bbut I'm sure there is a way it can be balanced out.

I would love to see another alternative to Abyssal Bolt and Hellfire. How about a Aimed Quick-fire Alternative similar to a sub-machine gun but with reduced damage and a wide spray using up some sort of ammo replenished when feeding or spawned. Kind of a Short range weapon in effect.

I thought I'd add these here since I have already mentioned them elsewhere.

I'm confused. Do you want every slot occupied by a summon (because that won't get old) or do you want a magical SMG?

GenFeelGood
8th Feb 2015, 05:00
I still hope that she gets a version of Kain's Blood Gout spell from Blood Omen. I think that would be a fine alternative to abyssal bolt and hell strike, more of an individual attack spell as opposed to AoE.

--Ram--
8th Feb 2015, 05:07
I still hope that she gets a version of Kain's Blood Gout spell from Blood Omen. I think that would be a fine alternative to abyssal bolt and hell strike, more of an individual attack spell as opposed to AoE.

Could you explain what that does for the uneducated? Kind of like the sound of a single target option now I think about it.

GenFeelGood
8th Feb 2015, 05:13
Could you explain what that does for the uneducated? Kind of like the sound of a single target option now I think about it.
In short, Kain turned his own blood into a projectile. It cost health from the health bar to use and if you missed then you just threw away part of your own health; but if you hit your mark then blood from the target would fly back to you, replenishing your health.

Edit
I don't think the restoration portion of the ability will be needed since vampires have passive health regeneration; but I do think the attack needs to have a minimum health cost that is greater than can be regenerated to ensure a cost to use. I'd also like to suggest a charge shot dynamic where you put as much health into the strike as you see fit, with the more health you put in translating into more damage done by the shot.

Razaiim
8th Feb 2015, 06:33
now I'm not saying Hellstrike needs a huge overhaul, just an idea that came to my head, what if the projectiles did damage when they connect with a human, and the AoE damage was reduced?

Cristari
8th Feb 2015, 13:52
I'm confused. Do you want every slot occupied by a summon (because that won't get old) or do you want a magical SMG?

They are all options. As you know with the other classes you can fit it out as you like to play it. I said as an alternative to Hellstrike there could be a SMG like spray and pray alternative to Hellstrike that could help from behind a shield or perhaps used in conjunction when attacking along side your summons.

I would like to see her used as a puppet master as well and have the ability to use a summons in the RMB, Q and F slots which can still allow her to run in and attack but obviously without Hellstrike, Abysmal Bolt or even Abyssal Shield leavers her very open to attack.

As a class the summoner could be so adaptable with the types of spells and summons she could have this way.


Abyssal Barrier
Think this is in an OK place for now, besides the difficulty in maneuvering with F held down.

Just as a thought Why does the Barrier deplete if only used for a few seconds instead of the full 20?

Why cant the Shield be used for a second at a time and use up a portion of that time span until it is charged up again. The charge could replenish over time or from Summons strikes on target or instantly with a kill.

Someone posted about binding it to the RMB as well and moving HellStrike and Abyssal Bolt to the F slot which i feel makes this skill far more usable along but I understand why you may have put it to F.

Ygdrasel
9th Feb 2015, 03:43
They are all options. As you know with the other classes you can fit it out as you like to play it. I said as an alternative to Hellstrike there could be a SMG like spray and pray alternative to Hellstrike that could help from behind a shield or perhaps used in conjunction when attacking along side your summons.

I would like to see her used as a puppet master as well and have the ability to use a summons in the RMB, Q and F slots which can still allow her to run in and attack but obviously without Hellstrike, Abysmal Bolt or even Abyssal Shield leavers her very open to attack.

As a class the summoner could be so adaptable with the types of spells and summons she could have this way.



Just as a thought Why does the Barrier deplete if only used for a few seconds instead of the full 20?

Why cant the Shield be used for a second at a time and use up a portion of that time span until it is charged up again. The charge could replenish over time or from Summons strikes on target or instantly with a kill.

Someone posted about binding it to the RMB as well and moving HellStrike and Abyssal Bolt to the F slot which i feel makes this skill far more usable along but I understand why you may have put it to F.

A summon in every slot is overkill. I know she's called a Summoner but c'mon. One slot could offer summon options. Another could be support/defense ala the shield (which I thought operated like that: Its cooldown is shorter or longer based on how long it's up. It really should operate like that). Third slot would be your bolts, strikes and things.

netmota
9th Feb 2015, 18:18
The hellstrike is an ability purposed to do damage instantly, and even been"intantly" it can be dodgeable as she is. a simple circular ground reference or a sound tweek is sufficient. reducing this skill is like slow down the pounce... so dont make any sence.

moreover the summoner has counterparts... wen summuner is casting the hellstrike she becomes vulnerable to scouts... for example.. 2 piecing pistol hits and a full draw scout and you are instantly dead even before casting the helstrike... and contrary to what appears, is not as safe as it sounds.

Morigh
10th Feb 2015, 14:11
The barrier is great where it is, being able to suddenly tap it on and off is a great boon to countering the dreads of playing vampires which are the CCs and things like warbow, especially hex shot. Making the barrier a toggle which is cancelled by things like rolling is just monumentally retarded as it would not help it in the slightest but instead greatly weaken its versatility, knowing how to use it you can play mindgames and suddenly block alchemist grenades/fullcharged shots and bolas as you advance towards someone aslong you arent the spamming kind or the one with sticky keys.

If you feel it needs buffing something like removing the max turn speed and allowing it to pitch up and down for greater control, or making it so that if the summoner and the aoe explosion epicenters of explosive shot/grenade or things like light bomb have the shield inbetween meaning that if the explosion happens directly infront you take no damage but if it lands behind you and the shield you do, it would actually stop rewarding bad aim with these abilities as now i just purposefully aim near the summoner instead and still do 80% the damage i would have making the shield just basically "I aint moving out the way take your time hit the wall behind me love", Things such as acid/volley/turret still need to go through the shield however.

puff_ng
11th Feb 2015, 11:39
Summoner is so OP right now. Does everything good. Distract humans, strong ranged fireball, shield ...

TheDreamcrusher
11th Feb 2015, 18:16
It would be nice to differentiate the special abilities more with Abyssal Bolt as the area of effect focus and Hellstrike as a smaller AoE or single target attack. My suggestions would be to make the Abyssal Bolt projectile fly faster to its destination and have a slowing effect added. If Hellstrike was made to be a single target attack, it could possess a longer casting time like a Scout's charged shot.

puff_ng
12th Feb 2015, 11:08
From the other Summoner thread:


lol at all the suggestions to improve Summoner. He is so OP right now.

First of all, let me say I think Vamps do need another way to initiate engagements with Humans besides Reaver Smoke, and the Summoner's pets are a good idea towards that end. But they are imbalanced as all hell.

No other class can remain completely safe while harassing the enemy non-stop. Humans have no answer for them. Period.

Alchemist? Hah! The only class in the game that gets HARD countered by another class (Sentinel)?

Killing pets quickly is not a counter. It only returns the engagement to neutral.

Scenario 1: Humans kill the pets quickly, just to repeat the process again, until eventually ...

Scenario 2: Summoner lands Hell Strike or other Vamps attack while the Humans are distracted.

If there are two Summoners, the harassment is non-stop.

The only way Humans can kill a Summoner is if the Summoner makes a mistake in choosing when and how to enter melee.

It is simply no fun fighting against a Summoner and their pets because you don't accomplish anything.

My suggestion: Make summoning pets cost HP (e.g., 20%). You can even make pets stronger to compensate. Then Summoners cannot drop them non-stop, and killing pets quickly actually has a sense of accomplishment because you know you've weakened the Summoner indirectly.

Theogr91
12th Feb 2015, 18:47
The ghoul's still stay on map after they die and after the round ends.

Picture taken after the summoner patch
12/02/2015http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/theo72/ghoul%20bug.jpg

TheDreamcrusher
13th Feb 2015, 02:43
Abyssal Bolt
The shortening of the detonation time is quite a bit better. I'm seeing the full damage dealt more often and feels more like an ability to be thrown at mid to melee range. I'm not sure if the slowing effect is making much of a difference. It seems like humans can roll out of the radius as easily as before. The charge-up time feels long though and kind of wish there was an indicator for completion.

Hellstrike
No complaints about the changes. I can see how the change in travel time gives a better opportunity to avoid the damage and the casting time doesn't leave the summoner quite as open.

Summon Stalkers/Summon Slayer
The pathing changes have helped a lot and there seems to be some other change now where I'm seeing both summons do more damage because I've gotten several finishing hits from them today.

ApollosBow
13th Feb 2015, 20:57
People still shout op op, here and in game... Players that all choose the same class are not playing very well and can be beaten, this is the exact a scenario of 4 tyrants, counter with Prophets & Alchemists, people like that would simply spam another class if summoner wasn't around, aside from those annoying games against spammers.I personally think some are angry that there's another punishment for standing still too long. The summoner is manageable, I wouldn't care if hellstrike got a 25dmg nerf (im betting alot of summoner players wouldn't, because that wont stop a good player from knowing when to push and when not to), hopefully not though as I feel its in a good place with its delay, but maybe that will further appease the haters, but the way alot of the class haters sound is that summons should be taken out or made like illusions.....people need to accept that the class is here and change there load out to counter the stuff they hate if it bothers them that much. Also people complaining about its shield? :scratch: Vanguard is coming soon
If I had one piece of advice to give to avoiding summoner dmg it would be to stay on the move and not be to predictable in where your moving.

I now know how deceiver fans felt when ever people went nuts about the invisibility power. :mad2:

Blackatana1
17th Feb 2015, 17:01
I am sure this has been said before but I would like to say it again. The summons and the strike/bolt have encouraged a lot of roof camping. This strategy is not OP but it is very boring. Perhaps in time people will get over the novelty of a vampire with 2 ranged attacks, but currently it's roof camping for days. Again not a call to nerf anything, but the meta has changed, and it's quite dull now.

Vampmaster
17th Feb 2015, 18:16
You never get any kills by hanging around on the roof. The summons and explosives soften the enemies up, but you have to go and finish them off yourself if you want the XP.

Blackatana1
17th Feb 2015, 19:29
I didn't say it was an impressive and successful strategy. it's just a strategy I am seeing a lot of and it makes the game boring to play.

HoppingBird
19th Feb 2015, 17:40
I think that the summons should be much better at hitting stuff, and do at least 25 more damage.

WoG-Hazaa
21st Feb 2015, 11:40
I think summoner needs melee damage nerf. Her skin is so small it is hard to hit in close range combat. That melee speed + damage combination along with casting skills ends up having too high damage.

Also it feels like many shots go thru summoner or doesn't do damage cuz she has so high movement speed and too small hitboxes. Reaver is being basically useless now that summoner has shown up in the game. Imho reaver needs melee dmg buff and summoner needs melee dmg nerf.

TheDreamcrusher
2nd Mar 2015, 03:04
I got confused between the two threads we have, the stickied one and the other called "Summoner Feedback," so I'm going to post here for consolidation.

Abyssal Bolt
After some time of playing with the revamped version of AB, I don't feel like it's really differentiated enough from Hellstrike. The question is, how would you like to deal 400 damage? A chance of catching multiple targets for instant 400 damage minus falloff or over time with a bit of slow?

Personally I'd say go further with AB. Make the area large, maybe even decrease the damage, because the slow is effective but even from the center of the AoE it can be rolled out of. Making it slightly larger so if you were dead on with your launch of AB means they would take full damage and be slowed longer. If the area were made to be larger, I'd be fine with a longer duration and same damage, say 5-6 seconds.

Additional Abilities: Dark Ritual (or whatever you decide to name it, lol)
Found in the Abyssal Shield slot, this point-blank area of effect ability fills nearby vampires with dark energy, similar to Rousing Cry, causing their wounds to close and activates their regeneration immediately whether they are taking damage or not. It will heal the normal percentage that vampires get after not taking damage for a short period of time and also will continue to heal even if they hit 100% HP and they take damage again.

Something to the tune of that seems like something the Summoner would have. Her strength isn't her escape abilities as she has more of a support/harassment role. A limit that could be placed on this is that vampires can't benefit from the ability again until they have executed a human.

Morgiahs
5th Mar 2015, 03:31
Abyssal shield alternative:
Phase shift - as Melchiah had the ability to phase through objects in SR1 this has a solid lore reason, basically the summoner becomes somewhat intangible receiving 50% less damage and doing a small DoT over 6 seconds. Like a combination of a nerfed Tyrant's ignore pain and the Deceivers shroud ability. Immediately breaks out of bolas, seriously all over vamps have an ability that does that but summoners sadly lack this capability.

MixMatched234
5th Mar 2015, 16:33
To add my feedback to this, I don't think you need to think about nerfing the summons until you have worked out their SERIOUS AI issues. I typically have one Stalker get stuck on a wall, or decide to stand still instead of attacking, even when I am in range. One of them usually functions normally, but one Stalker isn't very scary. The Slayer, however, is completely broken. Humans are able to dodge his attacks simply by holding down S, and I'm lucky if he scores any hits at all. Max hits I've seen is 2, meaning it's a 25 second cooldown skill that deals 150 damage, and maybe distracts the humans for one second. A lot of the time, the Stalker will also not attack. I'd say yes, if you fix the AI issues and the long wind-up time that makes the Slayer unable to hit, you may want to consider those nerfs, because if the skills were fully functional they may be too strong. But in their current state, they are unreliable, and the Slayer is entirely broken.

Garfield187
5th Mar 2015, 19:14
I just came back to Nosgoth after 2months to play some rounds with my friend and we were facing 3 Summoners right at the start and got spammed all the time by minions and hell strike and it was so annoying and frustrating. I remember when the Summoner came out she was bad compared to the other Vampires and easy opponent and now the spawned monsters are kicking ass and it feels like they spawn endless and the whole battlefield is just a mess. My wish for the next update is a minigun for the hunter so i dont get killed when the "real" Vampires start attacking and I´m reloading. I quit after that game. :-(

Ygdrasel
5th Mar 2015, 19:19
I just came back to Nosgoth after 2months to play some rounds with my friend and we were facing 3 Summoners right at the start and got spammed all the time by minions and hell strike and it was so annoying and frustrating. I remember when the Summoner came out she was bad compared to the other Vampires and easy opponent and now the spawned monsters are kicking ass and it feels like they spawn endless and the whole battlefield is just a mess. My wish for the next update is a minigun for the hunter so i dont get killed when the "real" Vampires start attacking and I´m reloading. I quit after that game. :-(

Try killing the summons.

MasterFurbz
6th Mar 2015, 00:33
I believe abyssal bolt could stand to have its slow radial based, with a dead center bolt having a near crippling slow. One common thought that's been shared amongst many people I've talked to is that they would like to see some kind of escape mechanism applied to the F slot for summoner.

Personally what I was thinking would be along the lines of "Cast F to place a glpyh where standing, Cast F again to teleport to glyph." The exact numbers and distances allotted are negotiable.

GenFeelGood
6th Mar 2015, 06:13
I believe abyssal bolt could stand to have its slow radial based, with a dead center bolt having a near crippling slow. One common thought that's been shared amongst many people I've talked to is that they would like to see some kind of escape mechanism applied to the F slot for summoner.

Personally what I was thinking would be along the lines of "Cast F to place a glpyh where standing, Cast F again to teleport to glyph." The exact numbers and distances allotted are negotiable.

I have pictured something similar but instead making the Glyph being laid at your feet first (where you want to return to after activating it the second time to be teleported away); and with a timer that is activated once the Glyph is put down, that voids the Glyph once it expires to keep it from being op.

Zagroth
7th Mar 2015, 18:43
I'm glad the Devs nerfed the summoner, but i don't think they nerfed her in the right places.

One of the aspects that i think she's way overpowered is her Hell Strike ability, let me compare it to the Sentinel's Puncture:

They both deal the same damage, they both are pretty silent while casting and they both have a very short casting, here is where the diffrences are:

- Puncture requires you to be in front of the enemie, has a really small AOE effect (straight line, just like a Reaver Sweeping kick) thus exposing yourself and risking your life.
- Hell strike can be casted from very far away, (usually from cover or a rooftop), posing you no risk since the safe distance mixed with the rooftop cover (which is a place rarely easy to spot from the humans standing point) which poses you no danger, also it has a HUGE AOE effect wich makes the Abyssal bolt obsolete.

Also i noticed that Summoners attack speed, dodge speed and climb speed were comparible to those of a reaver, and it annoys me when playing either as a Sentinel or Deceiver and to see a Summoner teamate excel me in combat, they should be at their level of hand to hand fights, not above like a Reaver, which is the class that depends mostly of these specs.

FINALLY i want to suggest a very import thing: PUT A DAMN THRESHOLD IN THAT DAMN MAGIC SHIELD, i know Abyssal barrier only lasts 3 seconds and has a mediocre cooldown, but i find annoying the fact that this once i threw a grenade (the 500 damage one) at a 100-ish health Summoner and it detonated on impact dealing zero damage instead of bouncing off, we have a damage threshold for the Vanguards' shield, why cant we have one for the summoners shield? That way humans can stop them from abusing this spell.


Basically what i'm saying is that Summoners are reavers with ultra OP spells that should be nerfed.

Does anyone agree with me or do you you think otherwise? I'd like to hear a response

TheDreamcrusher
7th Mar 2015, 19:42
Answers to your opinions and questions have mostly been fleshed out in this thread, so I'll be brief.


I'm glad the Devs nerfed the summoner, but i don't think they nerfed her in the right places.

One of the aspects that i think she's way overpowered is her Hell Strike ability, let me compare it to the Sentinel's Puncture:

They both deal the same damage, they both are pretty silent while casting and they both have a very short casting, here is where the diffrences are:

- Puncture requires you to be in front of the enemie, has a really small AOE effect (straight line, just like a Reaver Sweeping kick) thus exposing yourself and risking your life.
- Hell strike can be casted from very far away, (usually from cover or a rooftop), posing you no risk since the safe distance mixed with the rooftop cover (which is a place rarely easy to spot from the humans standing point) which poses you no danger, also it has a HUGE AOE effect wich makes the Abyssal bolt obsolete.

Even though I feel Abyssal Bolt still needs one or two tweaks, it has its uses. You can move while readying it and is mostly regarded as a mid to point-blank range ability now since the bolt has a slow travel time.

Hellstrike is not without its risks. Do not use it carelessly around good Scouts or Prophets.


Also i noticed that Summoners attack speed, dodge speed and climb speed were comparible to those of a reaver, and it annoys me when playing either as a Sentinel or Deceiver and to see a Summoner teamate excel me in combat, they should be at their level of hand to hand fights, not above like a Reaver, which is the class that depends mostly of these specs.

Summoner has great melee ability because she has no ability to escape swiftly. Well played Summoners use their abilities to soften targets up and usually have to commit to a kill once they engage. Trying to run can prove fatal. Abyssal Shield only lasts 3 seconds and can be flanked. Furthermore if you're hit with Bola, P. Bola, Hex Shot or a Warbow charged shot you're likely done for.


FINALLY i want to suggest a very import thing: PUT A DAMN THRESHOLD IN THAT DAMN MAGIC SHIELD, i know Abyssal barrier only lasts 3 seconds and has a mediocre cooldown, but i find annoying the fact that this once i threw a grenade (the 500 damage one) at a 100-ish health Summoner and it detonated on impact dealing zero damage instead of bouncing off, we have a damage threshold for the Vanguards' shield, why cant we have one for the summoners shield? That way humans can stop them from abusing this spell.

It's a magic shield versus a mundane one, one with a time limit versus one that does not but has a damage limit. Being that the Summoner has no other escape ability I can't vouch for a damage limit on Abyssal Shield.

maddpadd
13th Mar 2015, 17:17
Try killing the summons.

Yeah like killing them always works
I just leave this linky here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQKwyIL8fPE&feature=youtu.be

After yesterdays update, three times on this map I suffered & saw the undying summons......real pita!

GenFeelGood
28th Mar 2015, 23:29
Alternate Ghoul Suggestions
Defender: attached to a vampire that circles and blocks them from human projectiles, excluding aoe & explosives

Healer: It releases an aoe field of healing blood that is fueled by the ghoul's health and it ends once the ghoul runs out of health, either through fueling the aoe or from damage by the humans

Sentry: follows the Summoner and launches small projectiles at close range until it runs out of ammo

Suicide: it rushes towards the humans and explodes once it reaches a certain proximity to deal damage in an aoe blast

Predyz
5th Apr 2015, 22:27
I agree with those saying that summoner needs some tweak on some stats.

They rely on summons and magic to compensate their weaknesses, but when they get down a roof and fight with bare hands they deal the same, or even more, damage of a reaver.

Also, their summons+bomb techniques are breaking the game.

Players now pick 2 or 3 summoners and flood every part of any map with magic bombs. In LoK lore, vampires make great use of their hands, while those summoners act much more similar to Raziel. The problem is Raziel was a mere spirit form...

MindSliver
10th Apr 2015, 19:06
I would just like to toss in my two cents and be counted XD

First: I don't think hellstrike is overly powerful at the moment. it's not that hard to avoid because you SHOULD be watching rooftops for summoners stuck in place casting it. They stand out like sore thumbs. If you get hit with hellstrike it's because their team is engaging first as they should be.

Second: For the love of all that is holy don't bind summons to the summoner. Summons in the current build are all but useless when by themselves anyways. They serve as a distraction, as a barrier, as harassment but they don't do much damage and just soak up some AOE abilities and hopefully some bullets. Summoners who mindlessly cast them from roofs aren't getting anything out of them HOWEVER. There are non lethal uses for them when cast from cover. For example sometimes I want to see where people are at in a building I'm on top of. I cast summons into a hole in the roof and see which way they run, now I have a bead on my enemies. one of my favorite ways to use ghouls is to summon them from the roof in front of an enemy... once he starts shooting I jump down behind and tear him apart. Sometimes I'll even summon them in front of one entry to a building and then go in through the other to cover my entry. If you bind summons to the summoner you force them to use only 1 approach with their summons and it's often times the least creative or effective.

Third: We definitely need to fix abyssal barrier and get some new options to switch it out... either make it a toggle on/off or make it a rmb skill because maneuvering is all but impossible. I almost don't even use it simply because it only draws attention to you so the moment it gets dropped you get drilled by everyone that could see you.

Dragan-x
16th Apr 2015, 10:41
i was wondering if you are going too use the Melchahim Ability to dig?
this is for there f move and would be a way for them to move over the map by selecting a target area like you do with the draining curse.
digging could be offensive coming out of the target location damaging humans in the area and possibly staggering them.
the ability to phase through gates in the Spectral Realm can also be used.

GenFeelGood
28th Apr 2015, 22:38
A ghoul that is targeted like the Slayer ghoul; but instead avoids that human and targets the others while acting as a voodoo doll, with a percentage of the damage that is dealt to it is also dealt to the human that it was targeted towards in the beginning.

ParadoxicalOmen
3rd May 2015, 21:53
I really feel like hell strike is broken...it's too slow.

I personally think it should go back to how it was when released, but with smaller damage.
In other words, make it like the original but with 300-350 max damage.

ApollosBow
4th May 2015, 20:01
I really feel like hell strike is broken...it's too slow.

I personally think it should go back to how it was when released, but with smaller damage.
In other words, make it like the original but with 300-350 max damage.

if it would be like the original id say the damage should be more like leap attack because of how fast the original was to cast and strike...damage around 250-325 with original cast time and speed would be good, leave range as is.

Melhkiarem
7th May 2015, 13:36
Thank you very much for keeping us informed cause the summoner need those updates.
Concerning the dude who frags peacefully on rooftops, if he had a little bit more hp (or more resilience), may be he'll go in meele more often.

blackmagav
8th Jul 2015, 22:35
The summoner can be killed by the bola weapon, as seen here https://youtu.be/5Djzym9Dz8w

letshavecake
30th Jul 2015, 05:13
Here's a probably terrible off-the-top-of-my-head idea, what if the abyssal bolt's aoe was reduced, but the Summoner could manually move it around after throwing it by holding down the button?
It would solve the "easy to escape" problem, and would be more fun for the Summoner

In terms of new abilities, how about a mid-range blink, to replace the barrier? A movement ability would be a nice change of pace from defense, would be fun, and wouldn't be out of line with other vamp abilities

FireWorks_
3rd Aug 2015, 15:54
Here's a probably terrible off-the-top-of-my-head idea, what if the abyssal bolt's aoe was reduced, but the Summoner could manually move it around after throwing it by holding down the button?
It would solve the "easy to escape" problem, and would be more fun for the Summoner

In terms of new abilities, how about a mid-range blink, to replace the barrier? A movement ability would be a nice change of pace from defense, would be fun, and wouldn't be out of line with other vamp abilities

I like it a lot :)

Posted it in another thread here
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=160053&p=2144707#post2144707

Fist_Of_Theos
4th Aug 2015, 14:17
Abyssal Bolt has no issues in my opinion, if you want to better it in anyway, just take of the .5 of a sec for it to detonate and change the tic to 150 a sec (so it'd do the same dmg).

Hell Strike kinda sucks when you shoot it off and it does as much, if not less than 1 tic from Abyssal. Its a bit misleading considering it says 400 dmg on impact, rather than 30-400 dmg on impact. I'd be happy if it was more like 100-400 on impact. Due to the fact you can see and hear it coming from a mile away. As soon as you see/hear it all you have to do is dodge.

And why does let you summon a slayer when they are so far away? It just sits there rather than going towards them. Even if i summon it a semi far and run towards the person, half the time it gets stuck on the wall, stairs, or doesn't drop down from a platform.

Ygdrasel
16th Aug 2015, 19:59
And why does let you summon a slayer when they are so far away? It just sits there rather than going towards them. Even if i summon it a semi far and run towards the person, half the time it gets stuck on the wall, stairs, or doesn't drop down from a platform.

They did say pet AI is an issue...

elephantboyq
17th Aug 2015, 03:39
This is really bothering me. The Summoner comes with a default skin of "Ghoul-Caller's Mantle". All the other classes start with "(name of class)'s armor" or some other form of that. I also find the Ghoul-Caller's Mantle to be somewhat of an unpleasant skin and I don't think I should have to pay to get the skin that I do want that should be the default in the first place(Summoner's Armor).

GenFeelGood
17th Aug 2015, 06:22
This is really bothering me. The Summoner comes with a default skin of "Ghoul-Caller's Mantle". All the other classes start with "(name of class)'s armor" or some other form of that. I also find the Ghoul-Caller's Mantle to be somewhat of an unpleasant skin and I don't think I should have to pay to get the skin that I do want that should be the default in the first place(Summoner's Armor).

It originally was that way, but then they decided to switch the armor out for the mantle as the default. There is a recolored version of the mantle that is purchasable with gold, it may not be what you are after but it looks so much better.