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miffy141
4th Feb 2015, 15:10
When or even "if" is an Alchemist the best class to play during a 4v4 Match? The reason I ask is I feel like when I play an Alchemist they are lacking something.

I feel like the only time we are truly viable is when playing VS Reaver/Reaver/Tyrant/X. Or when the Enemy team is basically all Melee.

I thought maybe being the only class with a Team heal it would be a great support class but even then I feel like our Heal is only good enough to top off my team after a small encounter so we can stay in our Setup with-out wasting a Supply Stations run.

As for the DPS side of it I feel like we should never top Charts(Either Kills nor DMG done) But I personally think that we are pretty viable. Our range and Ammo Load out need some work done, but as long as your skilled enough to get direct hits on Reavers and Tyrants running down your team we can knock someone out pretty quick.

Let me know what you guys think, Also let me know if you are playing Alchemist at a high skill LvL and what setup your running with your team.

Sanguise23
4th Feb 2015, 15:13
Fire wall fullbore and lightbomb, unless there are sents she is my best class i often top the match charts when playing as her (which has been awhile) she is really nice against tyrants and summoner

miffy141
4th Feb 2015, 15:17
So you think just drop the Heals and go all out Damage? bc TBH when I pug I always run Firewall Light Bomb and Fullbore and can do a ton of Damage but figured it was because the skill lvl of my opponents.

FireWorks_
4th Feb 2015, 15:37
Depends on the enemy "carry" or problem your team faces the most. If hes a deceiver, you can ruin his day with an alch. If hes a good sentinel, your firewall aim should be up to par or you can forget it.
If you get swarmed, your AoEs might be a good idea. If you get CCed, you might want to bring some more disabling classes (bola, hex etc)

In the end, it boils down to how many hits you can land with your cannon. If you hit those and can sustain the lack of CC, shes a valuable asset and viable choice.

Sanguise23
4th Feb 2015, 18:15
I agree with FireWorks
What bukild to use depends on what your playing against, using healing mist is nice against chipping (poison haze summons or infect). tyrants i love firewall they jump into it or charge through it taking alot of damage if you drop it right. It is also good against deceivers and summoners. flame thrower might have its merits as well as poison cloud against those classes fullbore takes care of pouncing reavers

Ygdrasel
4th Feb 2015, 18:42
I agree with FireWorks
What bukild to use depends on what your playing against, using healing mist is nice against chipping (poison haze summons or infect). tyrants i love firewall they jump into it or charge through it taking alot of damage if you drop it right. It is also good against deceivers and summoners. flame thrower might have its merits as well as poison cloud against those classes fullbore takes care of pouncing reavers

Dropping Firewall on a Tyrant who just wasted his Charge by crashing into a wall is great. Seems to stun or disorient them a bit so they spend a few extra seconds in the flames. And if you have time to re-orient yourself and drop it sideways, you can get a Tyrant or Reaver to charge/pounce through the full length of the wall.

If I'm dead anyway, I drop it right at my feet so they at least can't feed too easily. Some get cocky and think they can feed safely while standing directly in the wall! It also immediately disposes of Lesser Ghouls.

And lately, I've been figuring out how to ricochet the grenades to reach the vamps in trickier positions. Good shooting plus some tactical firewall use has even let me top damage during a good match. Completely viable class.

miffy141
4th Feb 2015, 18:53
Also what kind of Perks are you guys using? I have played around with 20% increased sprint, the 10% reduced CD, having the Extra ammo, but mainly I have been using 15% increased reload speed. Because I feel like most the fight thats all I am doing.

Ygdrasel
4th Feb 2015, 19:23
Also what kind of Perks are you guys using? I have played around with 20% increased sprint, the 10% reduced CD, having the Extra ammo, but mainly I have been using 15% increased reload speed. Because I feel like most the fight thats all I am doing.

I'll be honest: I have no idea. I have never paid any mind to perks at all.

I probably should.

Razaiim
4th Feb 2015, 19:32
Here's my typical Alchemist:

The Set-up:
-Whatever mystery launcher I'm levelinh (currently Viscous), otherwise I have nice faster reload speed/faster cooldown multi launcher.
-Light Bomb
-Flame Thrower
-Tinkerer (I do a lot of roof checking, and it helps me sustain peak damage for that little bit longer)

The Play:
I usually set myself up in an awkward spot where I won't get spotted by approaching vampires, meaning they'll usually only see three targets, and as such they'll gang up on one of those. This is where you're grenade launcher and Light bomb will really shine and get you those damage numbers you want and earn the kills your team needs. The only drawback to this positioning is that Flamethrower and firewall won't reach the fight (you might say use toxic mist but I find it just disperses vampires out of the area, reducing your AoE damage potential from launcher +light bomb). Start firing at the thickest clump pf vampires while moving forward, use light bomb when they are nice and huddled, and by the time you reach the fight you should A) exhausted you're clip and B) be close enough to use flamethrower. You can't chase with flamethrower so just spray anything with in reach, cancel the skill as soon as you aren't doing damage, then shoot/juke/heal/reload depending on how the fight went.

Other flamethrower tips since it's one of the trickier spells to use: Any skill that staggers or stuns you cancels it, the total list being: Charge, Marathon Charge, Jump, Ground Slam, Shockwave, Throw, Pounce, Savage Pounce, Leap Attack, Sweeping Kick. Lucky for you, many vampires use these skills immediately entering the fight, so after 3-4 seconds you can light them up with out fear of getting canceled. If you are being attacked, it is best to train the flame on your target while circle strafing, even if there are multiple vampires. Focus on one and roast him instead of doing lesser damage to several. Another tip is Flamethrower can't be used as an emergency skill, it has to be used pre-emptively and as soon as you become a target.

Sanguise23
4th Feb 2015, 21:02
i use tinkerer or quick hands cant decide which i prefer

miffy141
4th Feb 2015, 21:20
Ok great! Thanks Everyone. Pretty much tells me what I wanted to know. Ill fool around with the suggestions and tinker around. :D

cmstache
4th Feb 2015, 21:29
Alch is by far my best human class, and has been since Alpha. And as sad above, build depends on classes on the vamp side (more for the tertiary skill than anything else). Lightbomb is basically standard. Honestly, playing vs sentinels does lower your damage, but I don't really do any worse. You just have to bait sentinels out harder and LISTEN.

There really aren't very many reliable alchemists out there, and haven't been since the start. From what I can tell, you're either good, or not since it's projectiles. You just have to have a knack for it. For example, if you can't land a light bomb at a vamps feet halfway across the map over a building, then you probably won't be a good alchemist. It's all about timing and angles.


For those that are curious (even though I've mentioned before), my loadout is normally:
- Fullbore cannon that reloads as fast as a hand cannon (sprint and reload buffs)
- Light bomb
- Flamethrower normally. I do run the others effectively, but only when I actually need it. Nothing funnier than roasting vamps with the flamethrower when feasting.
- Normally quick hands as a perk, with the occasional Fleet-footed.

NomzNomz
4th Feb 2015, 23:10
I kind of like flamethrower. Makes me smile as I just casually stroll into the chaos with a jet of flame spewing over the clustered vamps. Mwahaha..

lucinvampire
5th Feb 2015, 13:35
Defo tinker with your loadouts and you'll find some stuff you click with big time, but don't be afraid to change them about when you're against different classes.

Alcs are working really well against Summoners - especially their pets, light bomb in the face :D

Gotta love the Poison goo and setting off a Immulation so it goes off in an abduct by a Sent - pure fun :D

<3 Alc so so so so much :D

SaintSugar
5th Feb 2015, 17:07
Alchemist is very situational class. Good alchemists do most damage only with own cannon and other skills seems only as extra bonus for overall performance. The choice of cannon and skills should depend only on what kind of composition enemy and your teammates running. Perks for alchemist mostly narrow to quick hands or tinkerer (some ppl use fleet footed, but you should only pick it, when you got + 5 % sprint in weapon, other way is a bad choice).

*Hand cannon: Works against everything expect sentinels in midair, very balanced, nice dmg and six size clip.

*Fullbore Cannon: Especially usefull against bigger targets (Tyrant) and all kind of pouncer [you can knock pouncing reaver with one shoot]

*Multi Cannon: Popular for high spread and higher chance to hit target, but especially good against reavers and deceivers compositions. Deceivers in disguise are easier to hit. As well good cannon to check out not so tall buildings. (high spread makes feel distance of flying globes is shorter)

Viscous Cannon: Only cannon with seems underrated, but great against every target without any expection. Precision of shoot and hit detection alowe to hit any vampire even flying sentinels. Globe sticks to target, so disguised deceiver hit by it is considered visible to good player. Globes stay on target no matter if it use evasion or ignore of pain, in second situation it's good to shoot at tyrant, when ignore of pain is at the end and then suprise him by 210 dmg after 2 seconds, when ignore of pain is already over. Cannon not recommended for begginers, because delay is double-edge for alchemist.

Best perks:
Quick hands - I use it on hand/viscous cannon, because they got small reload and this perk makes reload extremally quick.
Tinkerer - I use it on multi/fullbore, because extra globe in clip size makes difference in battle and because this cannons are slower in fire ration, most often battle is over before you even began reload.

Primary Skills:
Against any vampire the best option is popular and very usefull light bomb. You can hit any vampire whenever you want. Hit reaver in state of evasion, clean up swarm of summoner stalkers, just deal extra aoe dmg in da face. As well you can hit sentinel close to ground, when he tries to grab someone, so you got guaranted 200+ dmg on sentinel every time he tries to catch someone or self. (With some luck, instant release from grab). I don't recommend sunlight vial or immolation, because they seem still not viable skills. Sunlight doesn't bring much to battle expect 1 second? blind in proper hit. Immolation is still to slow and easy to avoid, need proper situation to use, when vampire will not see you come.

Secondary skills:
It gots much better variation, flamewall is a common use, because damage is high as well can block passage and suprise vampires. Especially usefull in tight places or to secure escape route.

There is as well poison cloud, thats is probably not much popular at the moment, because you can feel how low dmg it deal in only 400 area radius. I would even say this is worse version of choking haze, because doesn't guarante more then 100 dmg when avoided. Still good in certain situations and main purpose of poison cloud is ofcourse area denial for vampires. You can as well throw it to help comrade in need and this is probably best advantage this skill get over firewall.

Flamethrower brings most of damage over time and its deadly in close range, but you use it only against no CC compositions with a lot of summoners and deceivers so no one will interupt skill. Flamethrower can be canceled in any moment, so if enemy run away, don't chase him with flamethrower, instead disable it and continue to shoot with standard cannon. Flamethrower is as well good alternative if you run out of all globes and there no time to reload. Seems as well to work great against hexed, bolaed targets, because for few seconds they can't really run away(in disabled state of hex they can still dodge with in certain situations alowe vampire to escape).

Last skill with is great counter to chipping tactic of vampires is healing mist. At the moment healing mist seems just a much worse variation of sacrifice, but still can be usefull against not aggresive, choking haze, airstrike and other poke skills. If in battle you healed at least 5k + hp, you are considered good healer(do not count current damage earn by summoner minions).
Main damage of alchemist is bring by cannon itself and light bomb, so if your aim is abowe average, you can still do a lot of damage and manage extra healing support in same time. Inside battle you need to beware, because healing mist nullify hear sense of humans, so its much harder to react and avoid hazards.


At least this is my own word to this topic, because i love alchemist class <3

Ghosthree3
6th Feb 2015, 00:07
I honestly think she brings the most to the team of any of the humans, and while you can do without her, having her is just too useful. That is not to say stacking alchemists is a viable strat.

cmstache
6th Feb 2015, 02:59
Alchemist is very situational class. Good alchemists do most damage only with own cannon and other skills seems only as extra bonus for overall performance. The choice of cannon and skills should depend only on what kind of composition enemy and your teammates running. Perks for alchemist mostly narrow to quick hands or tinkerer (some ppl use fleet footed, but you should only pick it, when you got + 5 % sprint in weapon, other way is a bad choice).

*Hand cannon: Works against everything expect sentinels in midair, very balanced, nice dmg and six size clip.

*Fullbore Cannon: Especially usefull against bigger targets (Tyrant) and all kind of pouncer [you can knock pouncing reaver with one shoot]

*Multi Cannon: Popular for high spread and higher chance to hit target, but especially good against reavers and deceivers compositions. Deceivers in disguise are easier to hit. As well good cannon to check out not so tall buildings. (high spread makes feel distance of flying globes is shorter)

Viscous Cannon: Only cannon with seems underrated, but great against every target without any expection. Precision of shoot and hit detection alowe to hit any vampire even flying sentinels. Globe sticks to target, so disguised deceiver hit by it is considered visible to good player. Globes stay on target no matter if it use evasion or ignore of pain, in second situation it's good to shoot at tyrant, when ignore of pain is at the end and then suprise him by 210 dmg after 2 seconds, when ignore of pain is already over. Cannon not recommended for begginers, because delay is double-edge for alchemist.

Best perks:
Quick hands - I use it on hand/viscous cannon, because they got small reload and this perk makes reload extremally quick.
Tinkerer - I use it on multi/fullbore, because extra globe in clip size makes difference in battle and because this cannons are slower in fire ration, most often battle is over before you even began reload.

Primary Skills:
Against any vampire the best option is popular and very usefull light bomb. You can hit any vampire whenever you want. Hit reaver in state of evasion, clean up swarm of summoner stalkers, just deal extra aoe dmg in da face. As well you can hit sentinel close to ground, when he tries to grab someone, so you got guaranted 200+ dmg on sentinel every time he tries to catch someone or self. (With some luck, instant release from grab). I don't recommend sunlight vial or immolation, because they seem still not viable skills. Sunlight doesn't bring much to battle expect 1 second? blind in proper hit. Immolation is still to slow and easy to avoid, need proper situation to use, when vampire will not see you come.

Secondary skills:
It gots much better variation, flamewall is a common use, because damage is high as well can block passage and suprise vampires. Especially usefull in tight places or to secure escape route.

There is as well poison cloud, thats is probably not much popular at the moment, because you can feel how low dmg it deal in only 400 area radius. I would even say this is worse version of choking haze, because doesn't guarante more then 100 dmg when avoided. Still good in certain situations and main purpose of poison cloud is ofcourse area denial for vampires. You can as well throw it to help comrade in need and this is probably best advantage this skill get over firewall.

Flamethrower brings most of damage over time and its deadly in close range, but you use it only against no CC compositions with a lot of summoners and deceivers so no one will interupt skill. Flamethrower can be canceled in any moment, so if enemy run away, don't chase him with flamethrower, instead disable it and continue to shoot with standard cannon. Flamethrower is as well good alternative if you run out of all globes and there no time to reload. Seems as well to work great against hexed, bolaed targets, because for few seconds they can't really run away(in disabled state of hex they can still dodge with in certain situations alowe vampire to escape).

Last skill with is great counter to chipping tactic of vampires is healing mist. At the moment healing mist seems just a much worse variation of sacrifice, but still can be usefull against not aggresive, choking haze, airstrike and other poke skills. If in battle you healed at least 5k + hp, you are considered good healer(do not count current damage earn by summoner minions).
Main damage of alchemist is bring by cannon itself and light bomb, so if your aim is abowe average, you can still do a lot of damage and manage extra healing support in same time. Inside battle you need to beware, because healing mist nullify hear sense of humans, so its much harder to react and avoid hazards.


At least this is my own word to this topic, because i love alchemist class <3
First off, most of this was fairly decent. Decent information for the most part. Now, on to more anal-retentive stuff.

-Multi-cannon is crap. It's OK for harass, but it's wasted damage and regened off. It's impressive to look at but that's about it. It's impossible to focus the damage tot he point it matters unless you're close enough for all 3 to hit, then you should be using the stronger shots in the other cannons anyways. The best thing about it is the disorientation effect if you spam vamps with it, but that's it. Hand cannon or fullbore cannon, always. It's the only real way to take advantage of the class. Anything else is a gimmick.

- Healing Mist (which you didn't mention) reigns supreme, but only in full parties who practice with it. It's probably the only AoE skill on the alch that's survived it's current state sine Alpha. Flame wall and Poison have both been nerfed, and Flame thrower technically got buffed, but that's not the same situation at all.

- Poison cloud is multiple times more effective than chocking haze, it's just not normally used right. The damage ramping on it is absurd, and unlike humans and chocking haze, vampires HAVE to engage into it if it's used right.

SaintSugar
6th Feb 2015, 07:25
-Multi-cannon is crap. It's OK for harass, but it's wasted damage and regened off. It's impressive to look at but that's about it. It's impossible to focus the damage tot he point it matters unless you're close enough for all 3 to hit, then you should be using the stronger shots in the other cannons anyways. The best thing about it is the disorientation effect if you spam vamps with it, but that's it. Hand cannon or fullbore cannon, always. It's the only real way to take advantage of the class. Anything else is a gimmick.

- Healing Mist (which you didn't mention) reigns supreme, but only in full parties who practice with it. It's probably the only AoE skill on the alch that's survived it's current state sine Alpha. Flame wall and Poison have both been nerfed, and Flame thrower technically got buffed, but that's not the same situation at all.

- Poison cloud is multiple times more effective than chocking haze, it's just not normally used right. The damage ramping on it is absurd, and unlike humans and chocking haze, vampires HAVE to engage into it if it's used right.

-Sadly at the moment i agree, multi-cannon is the worst of current weapons at alchemist arsenal(especially after nerf in dmg), but still you can do a decent score. Other issue with multi-cannon is, it can generate so much smoke at impact, that actually you can disrupt not only vision of vampires, but vision of teammates, this can end up with very painfull expierience.

-Healing mist was my first competitive skill, i used it with great success against more expierienced enemy team. Its great in compositions, when team just know each other and know as well, what to expect in certain situation involving healing mist. I'm not alpha player, but closed beta so i don't mention anything about healing mist ancestory for the reason. Important is good placement, there are few phases when healing mist can be used:
-After chipping, but then you need to be carefull and be sure, that no one can burst you down inside healing mist.
-After battle if you survive it, great to restore hp so you can leave supply stations for better situation or if fight was so long, that one of pesky vampires would like to rush you down (Anyway we all know rush like this ends in vampier suicide, wish him luck, but still possible).
-Inside battle, with is much tricker part and good idea is always to inform teammates about this, because you lose ability to hear inside healing mist and if they aren't focused on certain target, it a risk for another quick ambush. Ofcourse good idea is, if you are outside of healing mist, to inform about potential hazards.

-Poison cloud as i mentioned before is great area denial skill, with is only what you confirmed about vampires, that sometimes they"HAVE" to engage into it. I little overdone it with telling its worse version then choking haze (after all choking haze is bad choice in higher level games until you got enough distraction tools). Still it seems for me a little to weak and easy to avoid. At the moment poison cloud is even worse, because reavers can easily abuse bug of nulling damage by using smokes. Hope for quick fix, until someone tell me it's already fixed. :)

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Alchemist should get award for being super duper funniest composition, when stacked as four. It just hilarious how much firepower you can bring to battle with lovely sisters. <3 Ofcourse i don't really recommend it.