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Rai
9th Feb 2015, 21:03
So only the pure of heart can reach the city. Killing 400+ men kinda takes the pureness away, surely? Perhaps killing for survival of yourself and others doesn't count. :p

About the date on the hub, it took a while for it to change before.

AdeleDazeem
9th Feb 2015, 21:04
Thumbs up for Crystal Dynamics for wanting to base the game around myths and legends that haven't already been explored to death in videogames. It's a lot better to have something obscure and mysterious, that is what needs the most exploration and uncovering after all.
Would Lara want to become immortal herself? Or would she learn from this adventure that instead of searching for immortality one should enjoy the time that they have, like Gilgamesh did in the tale of Gilgamesh and Enkidu?

Agreed! Tomb Raider usually features stories I never heard of before. Legend's legend is my favorite... So far.


Odd, (at least for me) on gameinformer.com/rottr, it still just says, "Next Update: Feb 9th!" :scratch:

Same here. There I was, F5'ing the wrong page. Thanks Rai!


I saw an article somewhere that kind of said "It's cause of Himiko" - Well not exactly like that, but I probably wouldn't have caught on by myself either :lol:

I was so bussy thinking about Ten Thousand Immortals I forgot the original TR9 story. I'm glad they're approching the story like this. The first trailer already set the mood with Lara's PTSD. I may sound like a terrible humanbeing, but I'm glad Lara experiences anxiety attacks. It makes the events from TR9 (and her as a character) more believeable. :thumb:

AlexWeiss
9th Feb 2015, 21:22
So only the pure of heart can reach the city. Killing 400+ men kinda takes the pureness away, surely? Perhaps killing for survival of yourself and others doesn't count. :p
How on Earth did Drake get to Shambhala, then? It was the same thing there too :p


I love that they're focusing on Russian Folklore. I've been looking into Folklore for some time since I have to design some clothes for my college course with the Folklore theme so I'm very excited about this. :D
I'm happy about it too. I recently began learning Russian, so it's a nice coincidence that it'll be taking place around Kitezh.

Rai
9th Feb 2015, 21:42
How on Earth did Drake get to Shambhala, then? It was the same thing there too :p

.

I dunno, I've not played Uncharted :p. Well 10 mins of game 1 doesn't really count much.

TheArcaneHuntress
9th Feb 2015, 21:42
". . . it is said that only those who are pure in their heart and soul will find their way to Kitezh"
I LOVE the character conflict this is going to cause

Tihocan
9th Feb 2015, 23:20
Lara encountered something she never expected could be real: an immortal soul.
width=300


In fact, the best way for her to cope with her post-traumatic stress was to begin researching other immortality myths.
Ah, this answers my "who is she trying to prove this all to?!" question. Herself.

This is all kinds of awesome. It's like the Russian version of Atlantis...

Driber
10th Feb 2015, 00:19
The first trailer already set the mood with Lara's PTSD.

Did the trailer actually say that Lara is suffering PTSD, though?


I may sound like a terrible humanbeing, but I'm glad Lara experiences anxiety attacks.

Why would that make you sound like a terrible human being? Lara is not real. No damage done :)


It makes the events from TR9 (and her as a character) more believeable. :thumbsup:

Not everyone who experiences such trauma develops PTSD.

Tihocan
10th Feb 2015, 00:31
Did the trailer actually say that Lara is suffering PTSD, though?



"You say the flashbacks have stopped" (Yamatai flashback)
"It's important to take steps into the outside world"
"For many people these traumas become a mental trap"


Did they really have to?


Not everyone who experiences such trauma develops PTSD.
But it appears to be somewhat more common than people coming out of it with no degree of PTSD.
Edit: making her more "relatable" which I think was the point.

Driber
10th Feb 2015, 00:40
Did they really have to?

If you're concerned about being accurate, then yes.


But it appears to be somewhat more common than people coming out of it with no degree of PTSD.

Even if that is true, that still wouldn't translate to "it's not / less believable that Lara didn't develop PTSD".

Tihocan
10th Feb 2015, 00:47
If you're concerned about being accurate, then yes.
"Lara, you're wearing a hoodie because you feel that it both protects your identity and your face due to the kevlar lining. You are tapping your heel because of the phat beets in your unseen headphones. You run away from the bear instead of fighting because you are an animal rights activist. And you choose to use the bow because you want to be just like Katniss Everdeen. Also, I'm just your butler. I don't know why I'm talking to you." #thingsthepsychiatristdidnotsay



Well that still doesn't translate to "it's not / less believable that Lara didn't develop PTSD".
Argument inverted.

Edit: Also - :poke:

Driber
10th Feb 2015, 01:00
"Lara, you're wearing a hoodie because you feel that it both protects your identity and your face due to the kevlar lining. You are tapping your heel because of the phat beets in your unseen headphones. You run away from the bear instead of fighting because you are an animal rights activist. And you choose to use the bow because you want to be just like Katniss Everdeen. Also, I'm just your butler. I don't know why I'm talking to you." #thingsthepsychiatristdidnotsay

You're just rehashing your "it doesn't need to be said, it's obvious" argument from your previous post. My answer remains the same - it's not correct to call it PTSD unless it's officially stated that Lara is actually diagnosed with PTSD in TR10.

Also, #thisainttwitter


Argument inverted.

Edit: Also - :poke:

Wut?

Tihocan
10th Feb 2015, 01:14
You're just rehashing your "it doesn't need to be said, it's obvious" argument from your previous post. My answer remains the same - it's not correct to call it PTSD unless it's officially stated that Lara is actually diagnosed with PTSD in TR10.

Just because a doctor hasn't labelled it, doesn't mean it's not what it is.

I suppose for arguments sake we could call it acute stress disorder because we don't know the timeframe, or Lara-be-all-messed-up-from-Yamatai-disorder, because the developers are too lazy #omghedidnt to introduce a series of scenes of Lara getting a referral from her GP to see a psychiatrist due to stress, wait a month on the waiting list, perform a run down on her symptoms to correctly diagnose PTSD...


Also, #thisainttwitter
#Iknowright


Wut?
I don't think anyone ever said "If Lara is not suffering from PSTD, that'd be so unbelievable". It adds a sense that Lara is not superhuman, thus more relatable.

I'm also poking you with a stick.

AlexWeiss
10th Feb 2015, 01:33
Did the trailer actually say that Lara is suffering PTSD, though?
I think Tihocan is right, they didn't really have to. This article (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20022540)is a good example:


Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
The trailer proved as such, as well as the comics, but also in the next one:

Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the event
Ten Thousand Immortals, first page of the first chapter, car backfires, prompts flashback.

Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
No actual evidence for this that I remember, but it COULD explain why Lara looked so uncomfortable and like she wanted seclusion, but no solid evidence there.


Not everyone who experiences such trauma develops PTSD.
Yeah, but I mean something as big as Yamatai (ex: killing dozens of people, seeing people she loved either die or come close to death, etc.) would most likely cause such. It's kind of like a war veteran sort of deal, it's quite common.

She might not have it, but it's likely she does.

Driber
10th Feb 2015, 01:37
Just because a doctor hasn't labelled it, doesn't mean it's not what it is.

Just because through inference you decide to put a label onto something, doesn't mean it is a fact.


I suppose for arguments sake we could call it acute stress disorder because we don't know the timeframe, or Lara-be-all-messed-up-from-Yamatai-disorder, because the developers are too lazy #omghedidnt to introduce a series of scenes of Lara getting a referral from her GP to see a psychiatrist due to stress, wait a month on the waiting list, perform a run down on her symptoms to correctly diagnose PTSD...

Why putting a label on it, at all?


I don't think anyone ever said "If Lara is not suffering from PSTD, that'd be so unbelievable".

Oh I'm sure you're wrong there. But in this case, no, AD did not say that, nor did I claim she did.


It adds a sense that Lara is not superhuman, thus more relatable.

And yet Lara seeks to become immortal. Funny dat :p

Anyway, being superhuman doesn't nessesarily mean the character should be any less relatable. It all comes down to good character development, writing, and deliverance. I know characters who are superhuman and who are far more relatable than some "normally human" characters.


I'm also poking you with a stick.

Ouch. Please don't poke me there. I'm still sore :o

Tihocan
10th Feb 2015, 01:52
Just because through inference you decide to put a label onto something, doesn't mean it is a fact.
Which invalidates what a doctor/psychiatrist would do, yes?


Why putting a label on it, at all?
For ease of communication. If we as a species could refer to things without label (wrt humans) we would probably ascend to some higher form of enlightenment.


Oh I'm sure you're wrong there. But in this case, no, AD did not say that, nor did I claim she did.
Ok, fair. But why say "not everyone who experiences such trauma develops PTSD" at all? A true statistical fact, but not... relevant?


And yet Lara seeks to become immortal. Funny dat :p
:rolleyes:


Anyway, being superhuman doesn't nessesarily mean the character should be any less relatable. It all comes down to good character development, writing, and deliverance. I know characters who are superhuman and who are far more relatable than some "normally human" characters.
That's a really hard subject to prove either way in any real general sense. From what I read a lot of designers "dull down" characters so the consumer can feel more like them... subconsciously.


Ouch. Please don't poke me there. I'm still sore :o
:friends: I'll make it all better...

AdeleDazeem
10th Feb 2015, 09:25
Did the trailer actually say that Lara is suffering PTSD, though?

No, but... I assumed she did.


Not everyone who experiences such trauma develops PTSD.

But wouldn't you find it strange if Lara was living happily ever after without any emotional damage? Seems fitting, don't you think? :)

IvanaKC
10th Feb 2015, 10:07
No, but... I assumed she did.

May I ask why? Just because she sees a psychiatrist? :scratch:

AdeleDazeem
10th Feb 2015, 10:28
May I ask why? Just because she sees a psychiatrist? :scratch:

Ehm.. yes. *shies away

Let me rephrase myself:


The first trailer already set the mood with Lara seeming to need to deal with the past events on Yamatai.

Better? :)

Blacktron
10th Feb 2015, 10:31
As much as I am making fun of that shrink, I was expecting him to be in the game.

AdeleDazeem
10th Feb 2015, 11:44
As much as I am making fun of that shrink, I was expecting him to be in the game.

It could still be the intro cutscene?

Blacktron
10th Feb 2015, 12:24
That's very well possible, like the ship breaking in half trailer was the intro in TR9.

AdeleDazeem
10th Feb 2015, 12:29
That's very well possible, like the ship breaking in half trailer was the intro in TR9.

Exactly! Hopefully/probably better quatily than the PS3. I was incredibly pleased with the Definitve Edition, finally I got to see it in high-def. :)

Chocolate_shake
10th Feb 2015, 12:36
I like what has been shown so far . I just hope Trinity don't become the new Solaari

Gitb97
10th Feb 2015, 15:11
I'm happy about it too. I recently began learning Russian, so it's a nice coincidence that it'll be taking place around Kitezh.

It's a change as well, I don't think Lara has been anywhere like this before?

Blacktron
10th Feb 2015, 16:54
Well there was Kazakhstan in Legend, and from looking at this panoramic screenshot were she's looking out over a valley with a village there's gonna be some Soviet era factory or research building again.

That was one of my favourite levels from Legend, so I'm liking this :)

Gitb97
10th Feb 2015, 18:01
I struggled so hard on that level when I first played it! >w< My favorite part of TR2013 was the whole research base, radio tower part so I look forward to all this snow

IvanaKC
10th Feb 2015, 18:19
Ehm.. yes. *shies away

Let me rephrase myself:



Better? :)


Better (I feel like in a Snickers commercial :p ).

Assumptions about serious mental illnesses are kinda a big deal. Think about it, assuming that you know what PTSD bring to a person's life, do you really think that developers would make Lara have a PTSD? ;)

AlexWeiss
10th Feb 2015, 20:33
Better (I feel like in a Snickers commercial :p ).

Assumptions about serious mental illnesses are kinda a big deal. Think about it, assuming that you know what PTSD bring to a person's life, do you really think that developers would make Lara have a PTSD? ;)

I think she has a minor case of it that she gets over only by, well, being an adventurer/archaeologist... *cough* go see my post on the page before this, post #263

MagnaBass18
10th Feb 2015, 20:51
Better (I feel like in a Snickers commercial :p ).

Assumptions about serious mental illnesses are kinda a big deal. Think about it, assuming that you know what PTSD bring to a person's life, do you really think that developers would make Lara have a PTSD? ;)

I remember one of the developers said that Lara in the announcement trailer was a representation of her state of mind in the new game.

AdeleDazeem
10th Feb 2015, 20:53
Better (I feel like in a Snickers commercial :p ).

Assumptions about serious mental illnesses are kinda a big deal.

I guess I made a stereotype assumption then.:p

IvanaKC
10th Feb 2015, 22:14
I think she has a minor case of it that she gets over only by, well, being an adventurer/archaeologist... *cough* go see my post on the page before this, post #263

As far as I know, you have or you don't have a PTSD. It's never been noted that PTSD is curable and even the article doesn't say anything about a minor case or getting over it. I don't want my character to be permanently unstable! You can suppress the symptoms but once you have it, there is no going back. I'm telling you this as a med student and from personal experience. I was born during the war in my country and many of my neighbors and relatives were fighting in it as volunteers so trust me when I tell you I know what a PTSD is.

Now, how about Lara actually being bored by psychiatrist's words? She taps her foot pretty fast and she doesn't even lift her head to look at him. My bet would be she was advised by someone to visit him and she realized that wasn't necessary. :p



I remember one of the developers said that Lara in the announcement trailer was a representation of her state of mind in the new game.


You can be sad, stressed, kinda shaken by what happened to you lately, but does that mean that you're automatically classified as mentally unstable?


I guess I made a stereotype assumption then.:p

We do that from time to time, can't help it. ;)

MagnaBass18
10th Feb 2015, 22:23
You can be sad, stressed, kinda shaken by what happened to you lately, but does that mean that you're automatically classified as mentally unstable?

I agree with you, I think she is sad, stressed and kinda shaken, I was referring to that, not that she is mentally unstable:)

RybatGrimes
10th Feb 2015, 22:33
Now, how about Lara actually being bored by psychiatrist's words? She taps her foot pretty fast and she doesn't even lift her head to look at him. My bet would be she was advised by someone to visit him and she realized that wasn't necessary. :p

It's very obvious by looking at her body language and listening to what the therapist is saying (Lara having flashbacks, not being able to function in normal society) that she isn't just bored. If you are a med student, which I didn't know med students learned about psychology, I feel like you should know that.

You guys can argue in circles about it, but it's clear to me that Lara does suffer some sort of psychological related issue, whether it's PTSD or not, it wouldn't be presented in the trailer like it is if she didn't have it. It's really kinda silly that so many of you are trying so hard to deny it.

IvanaKC
10th Feb 2015, 23:45
I agree with you, I think she is sad, stressed and kinda shaken, I was referring to that, not that she is mentally unstable:)

Ah, sure. I thought you agreed that she has a PTSD. My mistake, sorry. :)



It's very obvious by looking at her body language and listening to what the therapist is saying (Lara having flashbacks, not being able to function in normal society) that she isn't just bored. If you are a med student, which I didn't know med students learned about psychology, I feel like you should know that.

You guys can argue in circles about it, but it's clear to me that Lara does suffer some sort of psychological related issue, whether it's PTSD or not, it wouldn't be presented in the trailer like it is if she didn't have it. It's really kinda silly that so many of you are trying so hard to deny it.


In short, psychiatrist are all doctors. They first study medicine then they specialize in psychiatry (in med school you learn everything about everything first). How do you think a good doctor would communicate with patients without knowing psychology (and psychiatry even)?

Judging whether Lara is upset or bored is impossible because body language is not stereotypical. For example, tapping with a foot - I do that if I'm nervous or bored. Many people are just fidgeting because of a habit. Others do that if they like someone. As for the rest of Lara's movements, that combination is my "I'll beat the hell our of you" body language. So no, it's not obvious.


Now, I'm saying Lara doesn't have a PTSD and we're free to argue as long as there's nothing confirmed. I don't think the trailer is that big of a deal, more like it's giving us an idea that we'll be seeing more of Lara's emotional functions and state of mind. My opinion is that psychiatrist won't even appear in the game.

AlexWeiss
11th Feb 2015, 00:03
As far as I know, you have or you don't have a PTSD. It's never been noted that PTSD is curable and even the article doesn't say anything about a minor case or getting over it. I don't want my character to be permanently unstable! You can suppress the symptoms but once you have it, there is no going back.
I didn't say the article said anything about there being minor cases, it was poor wording on my part. I'm not a psych student, but I am a writer, which requires me to research quite often, and from what I've read in articles like this one (http://www.helpguide.org/articles/ptsd-trauma/post-traumatic-stress-disorder.htm) or this one (http://www.overcoming.co.uk/single.htm?ipg=4839) (or even this one (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/index.shtml) if the last one was a tad too concise for you), PTSD is something that you can gradually overcome through speaking sessions and new hobbies (and new perspectives, so on and so forth). That would explain further background as to why Lara is becoming so obsessed with immortality and Kitezh. Not trying to undermine your experience in any way, I'm just saying that she may not be permanently damaged if she actually does have PTSD. I could be wrong about her and the disorder, but I'm not ruling it out, not yet.


Now, how about Lara actually being bored by psychiatrist's words? She taps her foot pretty fast and she doesn't even lift her head to look at him. My bet would be she was advised by someone to visit him and she realized that wasn't necessary. :p
Okay now this I can fully object to without a doubt. A good writer/director of anything passes on hints to portray how a character feels since in visual works, you can only see, you're not in their heads like in books where it often tells you how they feel. Like Rybat said, body language and flashbacks are an extremely important part of this, they wouldn't have had her look all tucked into herself or gripping the chair if she was just bored, and tapping your foot is a direct sign of nervousness/anxiety. If she was bored, they would have had her hoodless (if they didn't want to show her face at first, use different camera angles) and look relaxed, and her posture would have been way different.

As a little outside information, Rhianna (whether she worked on the trailer in some way or not) retweeted various articles after written by people with experience in therapist offices when they have some sort of anxiety/stress disorder. The authors raved about the realism of it and how well they connected.

Driber
11th Feb 2015, 00:32
I think Tihocan is right, they didn't really have to.

Sure they do. Otherwise it's nothing more than assumption.


This article (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20022540)is a good example:

The trailer proved as such, as well as the comics, but also in the next one:

Ten Thousand Immortals, first page of the first chapter, car backfires, prompts flashback.

No, the trailer didn't prove anything. This is all but inference.


No actual evidence for this that I remember, but it COULD explain why Lara looked so uncomfortable and like she wanted seclusion, but no solid evidence there.

Lara looking uncomfortable at a psychiatrist office is evidence that she's suffering from PTSD? lol

As for wanting seclusion - Lara has wanted seclusion as long as she existed, it's kind of her trademark.


Yeah, but I mean something as big as Yamatai (ex: killing dozens of people, seeing people she loved either die or come close to death, etc.) would most likely cause such.

You're wrong there. Most people who experience such traumas actually don't develop PTSD.


It's kind of like a war veteran sort of deal, it's quite common.

I'm aware of the commonality of PTSD among war veterans. However, just because something is common doesn't mean it is likely.


She might not have it, but it's likely she does.

Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. It's not up to you or I to declare that, though.


Which invalidates what a doctor/psychiatrist would do, yes?

Depends. If that hypothetical doctor would declare someone clinically insane after just talking with that person for 5 minutes, it would most definitely invalidate his pseudo diagnose.


For ease of communication. If we as a species could refer to things without label (wrt humans) we would probably ascend to some higher form of enlightenment.

I was talking about this particular case involving Lara, not about labels in general. In general, labels are actually quite useful (so I completely disagree with your utopian view of a world without labels) providing they are used correctly.

Slapping a label "PTSD sufferer" onto someone without a proper diagnose is not using labels correctly.


Ok, fair. But why say "not everyone who experiences such trauma develops PTSD" at all? A true statistical fact, but not... relevant?

Because it sounded like AD was implying that Lara not developing PTSD from the events on Yamatai would be unrealistic. Which would be, of course, incorrect. In fact, that would actually be the more realistic thing to happen.


That's a really hard subject to prove either way in any real general sense. From what I read a lot of designers "dull down" characters so the consumer can feel more like them... subconsciously.

I'm sure most of those designers are just following whatever happens to be in vogue. Looking at all the Marvel crap coming to cinemas these days, there seems to be no shortage of interest in superheros :whistle:


:friends: I'll make it all better...

Thanks, hun!


No, but... I assumed she did.

Right. Just making sure, heh :)


But wouldn't you find it strange if Lara was living happily ever after without any emotional damage? Seems fitting, don't you think? :)

Oh sure, but there's a difference between just any emotional damage and PTSD. I'm sure most people take some level of emotional damage from losing a loved one. But few people end up developing PTSD.


It could still be the intro cutscene?

If the doc won't be in the game, I think it's safe to say that that means not in any cutscenes, either.


If you are a med student, which I didn't know med students learned about psychology, I feel like you should know that.

Below the belt, Volts.


You guys can argue in circles about it

Funny, that's exactly what I see you doing.


but it's clear to me that Lara does suffer some sort of psychological related issue, whether it's PTSD or not, it wouldn't be presented in the trailer like it is if she didn't have it.

Hey, if you would have just said this "whether it's PTSD or not" bit right from the start, there would not have been a debate at all. I'm happy to agree with you that Lara is suffering from some mental issue. Otherwise she wouldn't be seeing a shrink, obviously.


It's really kinda silly that so many of you are trying so hard to deny it.

Neither Ivana nor I denied anything. Ivana even explicitly said so in one of her posts.

It's really kinda silly that you've been trying so hard to convince us that it's "obviously" PTSD.

AlexWeiss
11th Feb 2015, 00:48
No, the trailer didn't prove anything. This is all but inference.
You mean the therapist specifically talking about Lara's flashbacks having stopped isn't evidence that Lara has experienced them?

EDIT: I guess technically by definition it's an inference, but it's also a kind of no brainer. If I say "I finally decided to eat the disgusting food Winston kept serving," it implies that I wasn't eating it before. Same applies to her flashbacks.

Lara looking uncomfortable is evidence that she's suffering from PTSD? lol

As for wanting seclusion - Lara has wanted seclusion as long as she existed, it's kind of her trademark.
Confidence is also a trademark on that level. She's always preferred a reclusive lifestyle but when faced with extroverted scenarios she's always been quite confident, even in the reboot (sometimes maybe a bit of an awkward young adult, but still not uncomfortable in that sense). It's not the fact that she looked uncomfortable that potentially concludes that (nothing concludes it, I even pointed out that it wasn't really solid evidence, more something to think about), it coincided with the symptom that was also quoted. Lara did not look like she was in the same place in her head. She was off somewhere else, and body language could help support the idea that she was trying to block out what he was saying. Maybe.

You're wrong there. Most people who experience such traumas actually don't develop PTSD.
It's clear we've all chosen different speculations for this in association with Lara, then.


Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. It's not up to you or I to declare that, though.
Never declared that, but instead made an educated guess. I could be wrong, I accept that, and perhaps it's my eagerness to see Lara combat this with becoming the Tomb Raider clouds my judgement, but it doesn't mean anyone here has yet to be proven wrong.

IvanaKC
11th Feb 2015, 00:50
Okay now this I can fully object to without a doubt. A good writer/director of anything passes on hints to portray how a character feels since in visual works, you can only see, you're not in their heads like in books where it often tells you how they feel. Like Rybat said, body language and flashbacks are an extremely important part of this, they wouldn't have had her look all tucked into herself or gripping the chair if she was just bored, and tapping your foot is a direct sign of nervousness/anxiety. If she was bored, they would have had her hoodless (if they didn't want to show her face at first, use different camera angles) and look relaxed, and her posture would have been way different.



Both you and RybatGrimes probably didn't understand the point of my post. I'm going to say this again: Body language is not stereotypical no matter what the Internet says (read my reply to RybatGrimes). I mentioned boredom because it first came to my mind as an example of that. You assumed it's a mental disorder, who's to stop me from assuming it's boredom in the same way? I can even assume from her posture that she might be on her way out. Why? People lean like that when they are about to get out of the room in a hurry. Seriously, do we know all about the character from just a few seconds we've seen? :hmm:


However, don't forget I'm not denying anything, it's still my opinion and we can agree or disagree.

Tihocan
11th Feb 2015, 01:07
Most people who experience such traumas actually don't develop PTSD.
Evidence pertaining to this specific trauma required.


Depends. If that hypothetical doctor would declare someone clinically insane after just talking with that person for 5 minutes, it would most definitely invalidate his pseudo diagnose.
PSTD != clinically insane. Which is not even a thing.
And what if he rapidly sees all of the evidence, and is correct?


I completely disagree with your utopian view of a world without labels) providing they are used correctly.
Never said utopian. Just the knowledge of each other's minds without requiring labels. Which would actually be kind of creepy...


Slapping a label "PTSD sufferer" onto someone without a proper diagnose is not using labels correctly.
So, Driber, you called Vlad a psychopath and should now retract your statement as there was no psychiatric doctor on the island providing us with a diagnosis? In fact, you provided me with a Wikipedia ling of signs/symptoms as an argument.

I could quite easily do the same, with a lengthy discussion and proof to the point, but without a doc's piece of paper or direct confirmation from CD both points would be moot.


Because it sounded like AD was implying that Lara not developing PTSD from the events on Yamatai would be unrealistic. Which would be, of course, incorrect. In fact, that would actually be the more realistic thing to happen.
I interpreted the inverse, so no argument really there.


I'm sure most of those designers are just following whatever happens to be in vogue. Looking at all the Marvel crap coming to cinemas these days, there seems to be no shortage of interest in superheros :whistle:
Does anyone relate to Superman? Or Batman?


Below the belt, Volts.
Proctologist?

AdeleDazeem
11th Feb 2015, 08:31
If the doc won't be in the game, I think it's safe to say that that means not in any cutscenes, either.


N'aw. Still, it was a great teaser. I'll definitely watch it right before I play the game.

Rai
11th Feb 2015, 20:13
New update: Environments (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/11/exploring-the-new-environments-of-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx). Including video interview with Brian Horton.

TheArcaneHuntress
11th Feb 2015, 20:21
New update: Environments (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/11/exploring-the-new-environments-of-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx). Including video interview with Brian Horton.
This last update has me really excited! :D Multiple bows man, multiple BOWS

MagnaBass18
11th Feb 2015, 20:33
You can swing with the axe? Does that mean the grapple is coming back in a way?

Rai
11th Feb 2015, 20:34
You can swing with the axe? Does that mean the grapple is coming back in a way?I think one of the axes will have a rope attached to it, so yeah, I guess it becomes a sort of makeshift grapple.

The video lags soo bad...*sigh*

Gitb97
11th Feb 2015, 20:41
My video ran fine :o
I don't think I was paying attention to the video very well cause I didn't hear swinging axe or multiple bows...Going to have to rewatch it when I'm not tired. :rasp:

AdeleDazeem
11th Feb 2015, 20:50
So.. The Game Informer page doesn't update anmore?

There are going to be so many awesome RPG-like elements to this game! Multiple bows sounds great too. I wonder what kind of system they'll use. Can you equip any bow you have any time or do you need to decide which one to take in advance?

IvanaKC
11th Feb 2015, 20:57
What is it with the Internal server error all the time? Ever since the news about TR came out, I cannot access Gameinformer page.

Rai
11th Feb 2015, 20:57
^ The hub will update eventually. It took a few hours for the new date to appear yesterday.

Blacktron
11th Feb 2015, 20:58
I don't know about this... all this talk about hunting, crafting and alpha wolves that are needed for a specific upgrade: it's called Far Cry 3. And it's also in several Assassins Creed games. I'm not saying that because it's not original it's not gonna be good, but I'm not gonna be excited about something I have done in three previous games already. Also: animals that attack with the tenacity of Giger's Alien was acceptable in 1996, but nowadays we know better.
Can you at least put in a flamethrower, like in the shotgun slot maybe? Best way in Far Cry 3 to get rid of that goddamn bear that won't leave you alone.

AdeleDazeem
11th Feb 2015, 21:09
It reminds me of Dragon Age: Inquisition (haven't played Far Cry or AC) In that game you can hunt for animals as well and use it to upgrade/forge weapons and armor. But in Rise the weather and day/night sequense will add an extra layer of challenge. So to me it will be completely different. Overal It sounds pretty neat, I just hope it won't turn into necessary grinding, but I highly doubt that it will. :)

Blacktron
11th Feb 2015, 21:12
Besides, in Assassin's Creed Rogue you can just buy all those ingredients for upgrades at a store (rather expensive though) if you don't feel like hunting. I can't say for sure before I have played it, but there's the possibility that I'm gonna miss that store in TR10.

AdeleDazeem
11th Feb 2015, 21:16
That's what I ment bytehe grinding. I don't mind it, as long as it doesn't go overboard. But I think it's mostly going to be optional.

Blacktron
11th Feb 2015, 21:18
I hope so. Making things optional - giving the player the choice - I think is the answer to everything. The game can never be tailor-made to a specific person, but by giving them a choice in certain matters is as close as it gets.

Rai
11th Feb 2015, 21:50
The next update will be on Friday 13th. Lol.

Driber
12th Feb 2015, 02:54
You mean the therapist specifically talking about Lara's flashbacks having stopped isn't evidence that Lara has experienced them?

EDIT: I guess technically by definition it's an inference, but it's also a kind of no brainer. If I say "I finally decided to eat the disgusting food Winston kept serving," it implies that I wasn't eating it before. Same applies to her flashbacks.

No, I was saying that the trailer isn't proof that Lara has PTSD.


Confidence is also a trademark on that level. She's always preferred a reclusive lifestyle but when faced with extroverted scenarios she's always been quite confident, even in the reboot (sometimes maybe a bit of an awkward young adult, but still not uncomfortable in that sense). It's not the fact that she looked uncomfortable that potentially concludes that (nothing concludes it, I even pointed out that it wasn't really solid evidence, more something to think about), it coincided with the symptom that was also quoted. Lara did not look like she was in the same place in her head. She was off somewhere else, and body language could help support the idea that she was trying to block out what he was saying. Maybe.

Right - could, maybe.


It's clear we've all chosen different speculations for this in association with Lara, then.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't made any speculative assertions as far as I can recall. I'm only contending the notion that Lara having PTSD from Yamatai is somehow the (most) realistic thing to happen.


Never declared that, but instead made an educated guess. I could be wrong, I accept that, and perhaps it's my eagerness to see Lara combat this with becoming the Tomb Raider clouds my judgement, but it doesn't mean anyone here has yet to be proven wrong.

Well since Lara is not a person, labeling her condition as "PTSD", you would by definition be wrong at this point if this wasn't stated by the devs themselves.


Both you and RybatGrimes probably didn't understand the point of my post. I'm going to say this again: Body language is not stereotypical no matter what the Internet says (read my reply to RybatGrimes). I mentioned boredom because it first came to my mind as an example of that. You assumed it's a mental disorder, who's to stop me from assuming it's boredom in the same way? I can even assume from her posture that she might be on her way out. Why? People lean like that when they are about to get out of the room in a hurry. Seriously, do we know all about the character from just a few seconds we've seen? :hmm:


However, don't forget I'm not denying anything, it's still my opinion and we can agree or disagree.

Well said, Ivana. Glad to see your voice of reason in this discussion, heh.


PSTD != clinically insane.

Never claimed it was. It was an analogy.


Which is not even a thing.

Maybe I used slightly wrong terminology, but I'm sure you're capable of seeing past that and understanding the point I was making, so now you're just splitting hairs.


And what if he rapidly sees all of the evidence, and is correct?

Give me one realistic example where this kind of miracle happened.


Never said utopian. Just the knowledge of each other's minds without requiring labels. Which would actually be kind of creepy...

You're right, that's not a utopia, but more like a dystopia. Eck :/

Labels FTW!


So, Driber, you called Vlad a psychopath and should now retract your statement as there was no psychiatric doctor on the island providing us with a diagnosis? In fact, you provided me with a Wikipedia ling of signs/symptoms as an argument.

Nice going taking that point out of context there, Volts. You're painting a picture that I declared Vlad a psychopath the same way you declared Lara's mental issue as PTSD, but that's an incorrect comparison.

The Vlad discussion was about you incorrectly (because he didn't rape Lara) labeling him a rapist, just like you're now incorrectly (because once again, you got no proof and rely solely on opinion/inference to justify your labels) labeling Lara as a PTSD sufferer. And my counter-argument to your rapist assertion was that at most you could possibly call him a psychopath, but not a rapist.


I could quite easily do the same, with a lengthy discussion and proof to the point

You wouldn't be doing the same.


but without a doc's piece of paper or direct confirmation from CD [my point] would be moot.

I'm glad you recognize this.


I interpreted the inverse, so no argument really there.

Not sure what you mean exactly, but it's probably high time to move on from AD's post. We already settled it long ago. And rather swiftly, too...


Does anyone relate to Superman? Or Batman?

I'm surprised you even have to ask.


Proctologist?

Me? I wish. Wouldn't mind having such a highly paid job.


I don't know about this... all this talk about hunting, crafting and alpha wolves that are needed for a specific upgrade: it's called Far Cry 3. And it's also in several Assassins Creed games. I'm not saying that because it's not original it's not gonna be good, but I'm not gonna be excited about something I have done in three previous games already.

Then I guess you are rarely exited. 90% of games feature things that already existed in other games before.

I of course pull that number right out of my bottom, but you get the point :p


Also: animals that attack with the tenacity of Giger's Alien was acceptable in 1996, but nowadays we know better.

Care to elaborate? :)


Can you at least put in a flamethrower, like in the shotgun slot maybe? Best way in Far Cry 3 to get rid of that goddamn bear that won't leave you alone.

*Complaints about features already seen in FC3*

[4 seconds later]

*Requests a feature already seen in FC3, and a million other games*

....

http://driber.net/os/facepalm.png

Tihocan
12th Feb 2015, 03:40
No, I was saying that the trailer isn't proof that Lara has PTSD.
The trailer is not nearly enough, granted. But the book and comics define in no uncertain terms a mental condition synonymous with PTSD. In a big way.
If I have to list them, with the direct definition of PTSD, I will.


Nice going taking that point out of context there, Volts. You're painting a picture that I declared Vlad a psychopath the same way you declared Lara's mental issue as PTSD, but that's an incorrect comparison.

The Vlad discussion was about you incorrectly (because he didn't rape Lara) labeling him a rapist, just like you're now incorrectly (because once again, you got no proof and rely solely on opinion/inference to justify your labels) labeling Lara as a PTSD sufferer. And my counter-argument to your rapist assertion was that at most you could possibly call him a psychopath, but not a rapist.

I think you're obsessed with Volts... :naughty:
But you just had to fire back about the rapist stuff, didn't you :rolleyes:

Anyway, the point is not out of context, at all.
If you saying


... but simply a "creepy scene" where a psychopath threatens Lara and makes her very afraid...
... A psychopath pinning a person to the wall...



Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) (or sociopathy /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθi/) is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath

Sounds pretty accurate when it comes to Vlad

is not you outright calling Vlad a psychopath, then I would suggest that anyone here suggesting Lara is suffering from PTSD is not outright saying she has PTSD. If you can, but we can't, then this is a biased debate. :tongue2:

From now on we should all say Lara is exhibiting a wide range of persistent post traumatic stress symptoms.


Proctologist?

Me? I wish. Wouldn't mind having such a highly paid job.
...
I of course pull that number right out of my bottom, but you get the point :p

I lol'd.

Edit:
Just watched the Brian Horton video - Lara is not a superhero, dev's words. So nyeh. :rasp:

Driber
12th Feb 2015, 20:58
The trailer is not nearly enough, granted.

Thank you for granting that.


But the book and comics define in no uncertain terms a mental condition synonymous with PTSD. In a big way.
If I have to list them, with the direct definition of PTSD, I will.

You define it however you'd like. But you'd be wrong.


I think you're obsessed with Volts... :naughty:

Nah, just a case of old habits dying hard, heh.


But you just had to fire back about the rapist stuff, didn't you :rolleyes:

Hey, you're the one who opened that can of worms again, not me :p

I was happy to leave our Vlad discussion RIP, but you just had to go there, didn't you.


Anyway, the point is not out of context, at all.
If you saying


is not you outright calling Vlad a psychopath, then I would suggest that anyone here suggesting Lara is suffering from PTSD is not outright saying she has PTSD. If you can, but we can't, then this is a biased debate. :tongue2:

It's not biased, because you're still failing to take into account the context. When I called Vlad a psychopath, it was a next to non-important detail in the wider discussion about rape. I could have put a range of different labels on him instead of psychopath, for example "violent person", "jerk", "arsehole", or what-have-you, and it wouldn't have made an ounce of different to the point I was making - Vlad is not a rapist.

In our Vlad debate, I was not on some crusade to label Vlad a psychopath like you were on a crusade to label him a rapist, or how you're now on a crusade to label Lara a PTSD sufferer. The psychopath bit was in essence, insignificant, and we actually settled that small detail within the scope of just a couple of posts if I remember correctly.

This debate however revolves entirely around the label "PTSD". So don't pretend we're on equal footing here :p


From now on we should all say Lara is exhibiting a wide range of persistent post traumatic stress symptoms.

Or more accurately - trauma, period.

If I have a mere headache, it makes no sense to say "I'm exhibiting brain tumor symptoms", even thought I would be technically correct.

If I feel pain in my left arm after a long session of squash, it makes no sense to say "I'm exhibiting symptoms of a heart attack", even thought I would be technically correct.


Just watched the Brian Horton video - Lara is not a superhero, dev's words. So nyeh. :rasp:

Repeating arguments? Alrighty then...


Well of course the devs are going to try to convince you that Lara isn't a "super hero"; they are trying to sell reboot Lara as the "girl next door" type in the name of "relatability". But anyone who pays attention to what Lara is able to do would easily classify her as a super hero.

Let me remind you that you yourself said that there were people who thought it was "laughable" that Lara went from a crying weak girl to a one-woman army in the course of just one game (paraphrasing, but you get the point). That to me sure sounds like something only a super hero could do :p

Tihocan
12th Feb 2015, 23:07
It's not biased, because you're still failing to take into account the context. When I called Vlad a psychopath, it was a next to non-important detail
...
The psychopath bit was in essence, insignificant, and we actually settled that small detail within the scope of just a couple of posts if I remember correctly.
...
This debate however revolves entirely around the label "PTSD". So don't pretend we're on equal footing here :p

Oh, come on now, Driber! What you said was insignificant to the bigger picture!? That is absolutely the worst argument you've put forward in this debate.

Something was said with regards to a person's mental state, you challenged it, now we're trying to prove it. No different.


Or more accurately - trauma, period.

If I have a mere headache, it makes no sense to say "I'm exhibiting brain tumor symptoms", even thought I would be technically correct.

If I feel pain in my left arm after a long session of squash, it makes no sense to say "I'm exhibiting symptoms of a heart attack", even thought I would be technically correct.

So someone clutches their arm and chest, falls to the ground and stops breathing and you'd be standing there saying "nah, until a paramedic comes along, it's not a heart attack". You're ignoring all of the correlating evidence to make a point.

No, it's not trauma. She suffered that on the island. This is:
* post-trauma: after the event
* stress: Lara is exhibiting a significant number of symptoms that are within the clinical definition of the disorder
* disorder: is disrupting, altering or confusing

On a scale of
(1) No. Response Not at all
(2) A little bit
(3) Moderately
(4) Quite a bit
(5) Extremely
Answer.
1. Repeated, disturbing memories, thoughts, or images of a stressful experience from the past?
2. Repeated, disturbing dreams of a stressful experience from the past?
3. Suddenly acting or feeling as if a stressful experience were happening again (as if you were reliving it)?
4. Feeling very upset when something reminded you of a stressful experience from the past?
5. Having physical reactions (e.g., heart pounding, trouble breathing, or sweating) when something reminded you of a stressful experience from the past?
6. Avoid thinking about or talking about a stressful experience from the past or avoid having feelings related to it?
7. Avoid activities or situations because they remind you of a stressful experience from the past?
8. Trouble remembering important parts of a stressful experience from the past?
9. Loss of interest in things that you used to enjoy?
10. Feeling distant or cut off from other people?
11. Feeling emotionally numb or being unable to have loving feelings for those close to you?
12. Feeling as if your future will somehow be cut short?
13. Trouble falling or staying asleep?
14. Feeling irritable or having angry outbursts?
15. Having difficulty concentrating?
16. Being “super alert” or watchful on guard?
17. Feeling jumpy or easily startled?

A result of 50 indicates likelyhood of PTSD (or, albeit, something worse).

If you're happy to completely disregard the facts of clinical diagnosis of PTSD, then I don't think there's much point to this discussion. Particularly when you can throw a wikipedia link at me, say "sounds pretty accurate to me" and call it a day. :rolleyes:


Well of course the devs are going to try to convince you that Lara isn't a "super hero"; they are trying to sell reboot Lara as the "girl next door" type in the name of "relatability". But anyone who pays attention to what Lara is able to do would easily classify her as a super hero.

And your opinion seems to override everyone else's, even the devs. So at this point I'd expect Rhianna to eventually say "yes, she has PTSD" and you'd say "well, or course they she's going to try to convince you that Lara has PTSD, but..."

I've had numerous debates with you where your argument was basically "but the devs said". Don't try to pull the wool over my eyes on this one. :)

Driber
13th Feb 2015, 00:02
Oh, come on now, Driber! What you said was insignificant to the bigger picture!? That is absolutely the worst argument you've put forward in this debate.

lol, it wasn't even meant as an argument. We're not debating the psychopath label in this debate, we're debating the PTSD label. If you want to continue the Vlad discussion, here's the link:

http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=123211

I'll respond to your grievances (which I didn't know you had until today, as you seemed to agree with me back then) about my statements regarding Vlad there.


Something was said with regards to a person's mental state, you challenged it, now we're trying to prove it.

Right, and I said something about Vlad's mental state in the 18+ thread, you challenged it, I addressed your challenge, and we soon moved on with the bigger rape discussion because we both (I assumed) acknowledged the psychopath bit as an insignificant detail in the debate. No different.


So someone clutches their arm and chest, falls to the ground and stops breathing and you'd be standing there saying "nah, until a paramedic comes along, it's not a heart attack". You're ignoring all of the correlating evidence to make a point.

Strawman.


No, it's not trauma. She suffered that on the island.

Right, my bad. Simply "mental issues" then.


If you're happy to completely disregard the facts of clinical diagnosis of PTSD, then I don't think there's much point to this discussion.

The discussion was doomed from the start when you refused to just simply say "Yeah, you're right, PTSD wasn't actually confirmed; it's just a speculation" to my simple, one-line comment questioning if PTSD was actually confirmed or not, and instead went on a big crusade to try to proof that it is in fact PTSD with lengthy, repetitive pseudo-psychological analysis.

I apologize if that sounds condescending. Just trying to call a spade a spade.


Particularly when you can throw a wikipedia link at me, say "sounds pretty accurate to me" and call it a day. :rolleyes:

So you're blaming me now for your lack of pursuit regarding the psychopath bit in the 18+ thread? That's rich.


And your opinion seems to override everyone else's, even the devs.

My opinions are my own and do not override anyone else's. And your point is moot anyway, because the "superhero" thing is not dev opinion, it's fact if it was said in an official capacity such as a GI interview.


So at this point I'd expect Rhianna to eventually say "yes, she has PTSD" and you'd say "well, or course they she's going to try to convince you that Lara has PTSD, but..."

No, I wouldn't. If the devs officially come out and state that Lara is suffering from PTSD in TR10, then my response would be simply this:

"NOW you're correct, Tihocan"

;)


Don't try to pull the wool over my eyes on this one. :)

I'm not trying :)

Tihocan
13th Feb 2015, 01:10
lol, it wasn't even meant as an argument. We're not debating the psychopath label in this debate, we're debating the PTSD label. If you want to continue the Vlad discussion, here's the link:

http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=123211

I'll respond to your grievances (which I didn't know you had until today, as you seemed to agree with me back then) about my statements regarding Vlad there.
...
Right, and I said something about Vlad's mental state in the 18+ thread, you challenged it, I addressed your challenge, and we soon moved on with the bigger rape discussion because we both (I assumed) acknowledged the psychopath bit as an insignificant detail in the debate. No different.
...
So you're blaming me now for your lack of pursuit regarding the psychopath bit in the 18+ thread? That's rich.


This has nothing to do with the rape discussion. I don't have any "grievances" about that thread - in fact, I thought I had conceded the trial due to lack of evidence. I didn't pursue it because you presented documented evidence of your claim - which is what happens here.
I'm addressing your challenge with the same tactic you personally used previously. That's all.


Strawman.
No, it's not. You diminished the entire argument to a tiny point. I could inversely say "he only has a sore chest, he's not having a heart attack" despite the fact that he is. If a tree falls in the wood but the doctor didn't see it, did it fall? Well, yes it did.


Right, my bad. Simply "mental issues" then.
But are you sure now? :P


The discussion was doomed from the start when you refused to just simply say "Yeah, you're right, PTSD wasn't actually confirmed; it's just a speculation" to my simple, one-line comment questioning if PTSD was actually confirmed or not, and instead went on a big crusade to try to proof that it is in fact PTSD with lengthy, repetitive pseudo-psychological analysis.

I apologize if that sounds condescending. Just trying to call a spade a spade.
Lol, crusade. I do not think you mean what that word means. You're basically telling me I'm overreacting.

I'm calling a spade a spade by pointedly referring to her state of mind outlined in book and comic (and to the extent that the trailer indicates) that she has been experiencing it for long enough for it to be accepted as PTSD.
Or, more so "if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck..."


My opinions are my own and do not override anyone else's. And your point is moot anyway, because the "superhero" thing is not dev opinion, it's fact if it was said in an official capacity such as a GI interview.
OK, rephrase then. You're saying a personal opinion of "wow, she's so awesome with all the stuff she's done, I can classify her as a superhero" overrides the fact that they said "she's not a superhero".

*shrugs* if that's the case, why are we arguing? We'd both be right. She's a Shroedingers PTSD sufferer.

IvanaKC
13th Feb 2015, 17:18
Well said, Ivana. Glad to see your voice of reason in this discussion, heh.



Someone has to be here to say "until it's confirmed, you're wrong". :lol:



OK, rephrase then. You're saying a personal opinion of "wow, she's so awesome with all the stuff she's done, I can classify her as a superhero" overrides the fact that they said "she's not a superhero".

*shrugs* if that's the case, why are we arguing? We'd both be right. She's a Shroedingers PTSD sufferer.

Good one. :lol:

You forgot one thing, however - devs can say Lara is a girl next door until hell freezes over when it's clear that she isn't. They made her not to be, they even say constantly how strong she is and they're just trying to do marketing with talks like "she's ordinary, relatable, blablabla". It wouldn't be the first time developers of any game jump into their own mouth. It's like a commercial for cereals - "Great for the kids with all the vitamins!" but we all know how much sugar is in there. ;)

AdeleDazeem
13th Feb 2015, 17:36
Alright guys, here you go. Straight from Ten Thousand Immortals:

''She'' = Lara

IvanaKC
13th Feb 2015, 17:55
Alright guys, here you go. Straight from Ten Thousand Immortals:

''She'' = Lara




Do we really need to highlight the word "suspected"? And who are "they"?

Driber
13th Feb 2015, 18:01
This has nothing to do with the rape discussion. I don't have any "grievances" about that thread - in fact, I thought I had conceded the trial due to lack of evidence. I didn't pursue it because you presented documented evidence of your claim - which is what happens here.

Right, so I presented evidence that Vlad is a psychopath in the 18+ thread, and you accepted it and we moved on.

Here in this thread you presented evidence that Lara is suffering from PTSD and while I recognize it as evidence, I reject it as proof.

In other words - I managed to convince you, but you haven't managed to convince me.

Sooo..... what's the problem? Where's the "unfairness" that you were eluding to?


I'm addressing your challenge with the same tactic you personally used previously. That's all.

And I'm fine with the tactics. It's only fair :)


No, it's not. You diminished the entire argument to a tiny point. I could inversely say "he only has a sore chest, he's not having a heart attack" despite the fact that he is. If a tree falls in the wood but the doctor didn't see it, did it fall? Well, yes it did.

Yes, it was a strawman, because I wasn't talking about a case where someone falls to the ground, clutching his chest. I was talking about someone merely feeling a pain in his arm, nothing else.


But are you sure now? :P

About what?


Lol, crusade. I do not think you mean what that word means. You're basically telling me I'm overreacting.

I know what the word means, I was just using it in a hyperbolic way.

And no, I'm not telling you that you're overreacting, I'm telling you that you're trying so hard and going to such great lengths to try to convince us about PTSD. And that's ironic, considering you writing this about your opponents:

"You guys can argue in circles about it"

"It's really kinda silly that so many of you are trying so hard to deny it."


I'm calling a spade a spade by pointedly referring to her state of mind outlined in book and comic (and to the extent that the trailer indicates) that she has been experiencing it for long enough for it to be accepted as PTSD.
Or, more so "if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck..."

And that's the same fallacy you were applying in the rape debate as far as I'm concerned.

"Vlad looks like a rapist, he sounds like a rapist, he acts like a rapist, therefore he must be a rapist." (Despite no rape actually happening in the game :whistle:)


OK, rephrase then. You're saying a personal opinion of "wow, she's so awesome with all the stuff she's done, I can classify her as a superhero" overrides the fact that they said "she's not a superhero".

You'd have to rephrase it a bit more in order to be correct:

"Wow, she's so awesome with all the stuff she's done which a normal person would never be able to do, I just cannot accept the devs trying to paint Lara as a girl-next-door type."


*shrugs* if that's the case, why are we arguing? We'd both be right. She's a Shroedingers PTSD sufferer.

Nah, we're not both right, but I have to give you points for that clever analogy. I chuckled :D :thumb:


Someone has to be here to say "until it's confirmed, you're wrong". :vlol:

Heh, yeah, someone has to play the annoying Mr. Facts, right? :D


You forgot one thing, however - devs can say Lara is a girl next door until hell freezes over when it's clear that she isn't. They made her not to be, they even say constantly how strong she is and they're just trying to do marketing with talks like "she's ordinary, relatable, blablabla". It wouldn't be the first time developers of any game jump into their own mouth. It's like a commercial for cereals - "Great for the kids with all the vitamins!" but we all know how much sugar is in there. ;)

Exactly my point :thumb:

That was worded perfectly, Ivana.


Alright guys, here you go. Straight from Ten Thousand Immortals:

''She'' = Lara



Just so we're all clear, please can you inform us who "they" are in this context, AD? :)

AdeleDazeem
13th Feb 2015, 18:03
The book doesn't specify who they are. But one page before it says that Lara was 'getting help'.

But yeah. They 'what I assume are doctors or something' suspected she had PTSD. So she doesn't exactly have PTSD. But it seems she was diagnosed with it anyway. That's what I get from this page anyway.

Edit
I'm gonna read through the first chapter again real quick, see what I can find.

Edit2. Nope. ''They'' don't have a name. But isn't it safe to assume that, maybe, perhaps that would be the doctor from the trailer. Just.. maybe?

RybatGrimes
13th Feb 2015, 18:32
But isn't it safe to assume that...

No, not with Driber. :p

Unless we have 100% official hot off the presses video conformation (because anyone can write an article and claim it to be official) straight from every single CD and SQ employee's mouth that something is official then no matter what is said in a trailer or game, (because who considers what happens in those canon anymore??) no matter how obvious something is, even if it's right in front of your face, unless it is explicitly said, then no, it's not safe to assume because you'll always be wrong. At least here anyways. :p

Driber
13th Feb 2015, 18:38
Whoops, I just realized that I again confused you Volts earlier today, Tihocan. I corrected my post. Sorry about that :D

Edit: lol, speak of the devil. Bite me, Volts :p

IvanaKC
13th Feb 2015, 18:42
Heh, yeah, someone has to play the annoying Mr. Facts, right? :D


Since you weren't here to do that, I got out of control. :p Now it's your turn.


The book doesn't specify who they are. But one page before it says that Lara was 'getting help'.

But yeah. They 'what I assume are doctors or something' suspected she had PTSD. So she doesn't exactly have PTSD. But it seems she was diagnosed with it anyway. That's what I get from this page anyway.

Edit
I'm gonna read through the first chapter again real quick, see what I can find.

Edit2. Nope. ''They'' don't have a name. But isn't it safe to assume that, maybe, perhaps that would be the doctor from the trailer. Just.. maybe?


"Suspected" is not good enough. "They" is not good enough. As far as I know, she can get help from a shaman too. :rolleyes: Also, if you're diagnosed with something, it means it's confirmed and you are ready for treatment. Suspected is not the same as diagnosed.


It's not your fault for poor wording of this, but as long as there is nothing concrete, I'm not going to agree she has PTSD. It even says "She wasn't going to be one of them. (...) She got over them. She had help. She was one of the lucky ones." If that isn't denying PTSD, then I don't know what is.

a_big_house
13th Feb 2015, 18:59
She got over them.

She got over 'them'? As in the symptoms of PTSD? So, to get over them, she'd have to have them in the first place? :D

Rai
13th Feb 2015, 19:37
Seems to me, that our Lara was mostly in denial. She had horrible attacks of anxiety, vivid flashbacks taking her back to Yamatai. Sure, she 'got over them', but she just had an attack. That suggests she's not over her diagnosis of 'suspected PTSD' or anxiety. Whether it is undeniable PTSD is, of course debatable, but in the comics Lara is clearly still suffering, if not as severely. She's still having nightmares, and even hallucinations (Alex grabbing her during her hike with Joslin), she's still guilt ridden. Whether it's panic attacks, anxiety or even full on PTSD, these things can be controlled with treatment and coping strategies, but it doesn't mean she'd be magically cured (unless holding the Golden Fleece worked for her as well as Sam). Which is where the 'help' comes in. IMO, whether it's in the game or not, the trailer shows us Lara attending a therapist, this is as good as a statement from CD that Lara has been struggling in some way with the events of Yamatai.

Edit: I know this thread is about the GI magazine article, but I just read the spread in the OXM and can I say: "quietly impressed and looking forward to Rise now". Um, yeah. I mean, "catacombs sprawling over multiple levels" sounds quite nice. :)

AlexWeiss
13th Feb 2015, 20:06
Alright guys, here you go. Straight from Ten Thousand Immortals:

''She'' = Lara




The book doesn't specify who they are. But one page before it says that Lara was 'getting help'.

But yeah. They 'what I assume are doctors or something' suspected she had PTSD. So she doesn't exactly have PTSD. But it seems she was diagnosed with it anyway. That's what I get from this page anyway.

Edit
I'm gonna read through the first chapter again real quick, see what I can find.

Edit2. Nope. ''They'' don't have a name. But isn't it safe to assume that, maybe, perhaps that would be the doctor from the trailer. Just.. maybe?
Oh my god I'm so mad at myself for forgetting this. Usually suspected means they didn't quite get to a diagnosis, but it sounds to me that they were close, but Lara refused to actually receive the diagnosis. She got help for it like it said (I'll get back to that in a second).

"They" is not good enough. As far as I know, she can get help from a shaman too. :rolleyes:
She could've gotten help from a rabbit that lead her to Wonderland, but it isn't likely. The wording is poor... throughout the entire book. It's safe to make an assumption that she received some kind of professional help (as well as her own, like the books says, she took walks), even if it was off the record (probably what the therapist in the trailer was for, actually). But that really does conclude the argument: PTSD was suspected, Lara didn't like the idea of it because usually that means they're changed forever, and Lara, being the stubborn and dynamic character she is, sought some kind of mental therapy to guide her through the anxiety attacks, which she periodically experiences throughout the book (I think the next anxiety attack she had was after hearing a crash in the kitchen of a restaurant, I'll reread that part and get back to here on that). In a way, Tihocan and I were the (most likely) doctors who suspected PTSD, while Driber and IvanaKC was Lara in this situation (except less denial and more fact hungry) :p.

Quick side note: I agree with everything Rai mentioned.

EDIT: yes she did, she heard a crash whilst speaking with Professor Calahane, and she clenched her knife until her knuckles turned white.

AdeleDazeem
13th Feb 2015, 20:30
Oh my god I'm so mad at myself for forgetting this.

I had the same thing. Besides the trailer I knew I had to get 'PTSD' from somewhere. That's when I saw TTI standing in my bookcase.

The new update!
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/13/can-lara-be-sexy-and-other-questions-with-tomb-raider-s-writer.aspx

Hey, look at that:
The first trailer indicated that Lara's not in the healthiest place mentally, how dominant will her battle with PTSD be throughout the storyline?
It’s part and parcel of her journey, but not the central theme. I think she’s just trying to unravel the Gordian knot that her life has become. She’s trying to reconcile what she saw and what she did, with who she thought she was and who she might become. Lara’s someone who thought her path ahead was clear and instead she has been violently thrown off it. As a consequence she’s looking to her past for answers and guidance, and also seeing that in a completely new light as well.

Tihocan
13th Feb 2015, 21:20
I had the same thing. Besides the trailer I knew I had to get 'PTSD' from somewhere. That's when I saw TTI standing in my bookcase.
As much as I'd like to say "yay, win!" that sentence is not logically correct. Suspected is not diagnosis.


The first trailer indicated that Lara's not in the healthiest place mentally, how dominant will her battle with PTSD be throughout the storyline?
It’s part and parcel of her journey, but not the central theme.
Well, I suppose that settles it - Schroedingers aside?


No, not with Driber. :p
Hysterical.

Also, prrrrrrr
http://media1.gameinformer.com/filestorage/CommunityServer.Components.SiteFiles/imagefeed/featured/crystaldynamics/tomb-raider/rise/hub/rhianna-610.jpg

Blacktron
13th Feb 2015, 21:40
Couple of things that catch my eye:


We also wanted to decrease the number of characters this time as we definitely felt that the cast was too large last time and we suffered through lack of space to fully realize them
Valid point, but nonetheless I liked the large cast from TR9. It helps when you don't like certain characters: with a larger cast you're not stuck with them all the time. I also wonder what consequences this shall have for multiplayer - if there is any.


She still comes from a wealthy family, but her attitude towards that wealth is what’s changed.
Changed from what? When?


I personally don’t have an issue with female characters being sexy. However, in the past the industry has suffered from sexy merely being used as a solo personality trait. Likewise, the definition of what constitutes sexy has been very narrow and frequently meant overly sexualized, which was off-putting for some. We definitely need more diversity in this area and to create more characters who’re sexy because they’re smart, funny, thoughtful, loyal, textured and flawed people, on top of whatever they may look like.
Very reasonable position. Although I think that whenever someone says 'the industry has suffered from...' they mean that they don't like a certain thing, and that hardly makes the industry suffer if those people weren't part of the target audience to begin with. The things the industry really suffers from are excusivity deals with Micro... well, anyway...

AdeleDazeem
13th Feb 2015, 21:46
Also, prrrrrrr

I'm surprised there were still some screens we hadn't seen that. Again a beautiful shot! :D

Blacktron
13th Feb 2015, 21:50
Indeed: thumbs up.

AdeleDazeem
13th Feb 2015, 21:52
Changed from what? When?

Yeah, that confused me a little too. When did the wealth come back... does that mean the Croft Manor is still a thing? :D

Gitb97
13th Feb 2015, 22:00
I hope when she says they're decreasing the cast, she means no Sam or Reyes.

AlexWeiss
13th Feb 2015, 22:01
The money thing also caught my eye, here's my thoughts:

Lara's wealth wasn't spoken about in the game, but Rhianna did speak about it. I assume she means that it's changed from not wanted any of it, in a sense trying to forget about it because for one thing, it would be accepting that her parents are most likely never coming back, and also that she wants to stand on her own feet and make money her way, maybe proving it to herself first.

Yamatai most likely helped, she proved to herself that she really can do anything, and this is a bit of a stretch, but perhaps she's beginning to accept that she's a Croft and being wealthy is a part of that title. She knows that she doesn't have to rely on her family's inheritance, but it doesn't mean she has to so greatly avoid it. Maybe it's even a bit of a segway to having a playable Croft Manor, even if she doesn't live there.


I hope when she says they're decreasing the cast, she means no Sam or Reyes.
I read the magazine, and there's one part that suggests Sam will be back, but in a different way. It simply says that she's been "left in a worse mental state than Lara." I hope the smaller cast does benefit for them, it'll take a lot to redeem Sam. As for Reyes, I don't know, I quite liked her, perhaps it's just because I read the comics and she becomes slightly more developed there.

a_big_house
13th Feb 2015, 22:05
Something I'd like to point out is that the answer to the Mother question is very constructed; as if she has been told to say those exact words to avoid any further questions on the topic. In addition to that, "at the moment." to me would suggest that the topic has been discussed before and is being pushed aside for the time being, meaning eventually, we might have another Underworld situation going on :lol:

Blacktron
13th Feb 2015, 22:06
Yeah, that confused me a little too. When did the wealth come back... does that mean the Croft Manor is still a thing? :D
She can always win the manor playing the lottery :D Or more in the spirit of Tomb Raider: use a pirate treasure she found in a wreck to buy back her family's heirloom after centuries of it being in the posession of the government.

Or: after saving England from some disaster is being rewarded by the queen with knighthood and an old manor house.


The money thing also caught my eye, here's my thoughts:

Lara's wealth wasn't spoken about in the game, but Rhianna did speak about it. I assume she means that it's changed from not wanted any of it, in a sense trying to forget about it because for one thing, it would be accepting that her parents are most likely never coming back, and also that she wants to stand on her own feet and make money her way, maybe proving it to herself first.

Yamatai most likely helped, she proved to herself that she really can do anything, and this is a bit of a stretch, but perhaps she's beginning to accept that she's a Croft and being wealthy is a part of that. It could even be a bit of a segway to having a playable Croft Manor, even if she doesn't live there.
Well: as long as the game itself doesn't make one thing or the other canon, I'm just gonna assume that she doesn't have money because she has always been middle class or can't access the money because of legal reasons. Because this: 'has money but doesn't want to use it and works crappy jobs instead to pay the rent' is one of the worst premises I have ever heard.

Gitb97
13th Feb 2015, 22:19
I read the magazine, and there's one part that suggests Sam will be back, but in a different way. It simply says that she's been "left in a worse mental state than Lara." I hope the smaller cast does benefit for them, it'll take a lot to redeem Sam. As for Reyes, I don't know, I quite liked her, perhaps it's just because I read the comics and she becomes slightly more developed there.

uuggghhhh can they notttt. How can she be in a worse mental state than Lara? By the sounds of it she was just locked up. She hasn't killed anybody. >w<' Does the Novel go into detail about what happened with her? There better be a damn good reason for her return.

On another note. I'm kind of pleased in a way Lara has anxiety attacks because I suffer from anxiety attacks myself so she's more relatable to me now, I've never found her relatable before, so she's more human to me.

Tihocan
13th Feb 2015, 23:09
Yes, it was a strawman, because I wasn't talking about a case where someone falls to the ground, clutching his chest. I was talking about someone merely feeling a pain in his arm, nothing else.
Ok, fair enough. Then my response should have been "your argument is non-equivalent".


I know what the word means, I was just using it in a hyperbolic way.
I figured, just having a jibe.


And that's ironic, considering you writing this about your opponents:

"You guys can argue in circles about it"
"It's really kinda silly that so many of you are trying so hard to deny it."

:lol: Volts is that way ->


"Wow, she's so awesome with all the stuff she's done which a normal person would never be able to do, I just cannot accept the devs trying to paint Lara as a girl-next-door type."
So, what - are you downgrading the she can be "easily classed as a superhero" comment to "she's not the girl next door"? She's a hero, that's for sure, but she's not someone with superhuman powers defending the general public against threat. (Yet ;) )

AlexWeiss
14th Feb 2015, 00:13
uuggghhhh can they notttt. How can she be in a worse mental state than Lara? By the sounds of it she was just locked up. She hasn't killed anybody. >w<' Does the Novel go into detail about what happened with her? There better be a damn good reason for her return.
Well, Himiko possesses her in the novel. The magazine specified why she's in a worse mental state, it was because of all the supernatural stuff that happened to her.

Something I'd like to point out is that the answer to the Mother question is very constructed; as if she has been told to say those exact words to avoid any further questions on the topic. In addition to that, "at the moment." to me would suggest that the topic has been discussed before and is being pushed aside for the time being, meaning eventually, we might have another Underworld situation going on :lol:
I thought the same thing. I asked Rhianna a while ago on Twitter whether or not she's been spoken of in the reboot, and the response was quite short, "We have not addressed Lara's mother," or something quite similar. Hmm... :scratch:


She can always win the manor playing the lottery :D Or more in the spirit of Tomb Raider: use a pirate treasure she found in a wreck to buy back her family's heirloom after centuries of it being in the posession of the government.

Or: after saving England from some disaster is being rewarded by the queen with knighthood and an old manor house.


Well: as long as the game itself doesn't make one thing or the other canon, I'm just gonna assume that she doesn't have money because she has always been middle class or can't access the money because of legal reasons. Because this: 'has money but doesn't want to use it and works crappy jobs instead to pay the rent' is one of the worst premises I have ever heard.
It is canon, for one, Rhianna told various magazines and interviewers as official word. It wasn't addressed in the game, but neither was Sam's backstory or Alex's, yet we still know things about them because the writers made bios for them and were posted to various social networks. Lara's parents died when she was a teen, she tied her inheritance into tight bonds for the reasons I said earlier.

In one of the comics (which are canon), it flashed back to Lara's childhood; she was an adorable nerdy little kid (with the classic braid, might I add) that lived in Croft Manor, and she spoke about how, because her father was so often gone on expeditions (once in a while he'd take her with him), she often had herself, books, and the Croft Manor staff keeping her company. She even named one of the knight armour sets they had (she wore its helmet while reading a book. It was quite funny and exactly what I'd imagine five-year-old Lara to do :lol:). I actually quite like that little piece of Lara's history, it well established why she can be so reserved and devoted to her work.

Here's a collection of three pages featuring Little Lady Lara and Croft Manor (issue #9): http://imgur.com/a/TXtDL

TheArcaneHuntress
14th Feb 2015, 00:24
"Maybe I missed some journal entry in the first game, but what's the status on Lara Croft's mother?
That's not something we're discussing at the moment."

Best. Comment. Ever.

IvanaKC
14th Feb 2015, 00:25
She got over 'them'? As in the symptoms of PTSD? So, to get over them, she'd have to have them in the first place? :D

Go and read that sentence again. It refers to anxiety attacks. I have experienced them too, do I have a PTSD? :rolleyes:




As much as I'd like to say "yay, win!" that sentence is not logically correct. Suspected is not diagnosis.


Jesus, finally someone is accepting that. :D



Also, prrrrrrr
http://media1.gameinformer.com/filestorage/CommunityServer.Components.SiteFiles/imagefeed/featured/crystaldynamics/tomb-raider/rise/hub/rhianna-610.jpg


I've seen the post on facebook, but what the hell is with their server, now seriously?! It makes me damn angry that every time there was an update, I didn't read it! :mad:

AlexWeiss
14th Feb 2015, 00:33
Here's the cover image without writing on it (http://i.imgur.com/eJIu4q5.jpg). Now that I look at it again, it's not as bad, I still think it's too much of a variant from other Croft works.

IvanaKC
14th Feb 2015, 00:39
Here's the cover image without writing on it (http://i.imgur.com/eJIu4q5.jpg). Now that I look at it again, it's not as bad, I still think it's too much of a variant from other Croft works.

It is...different. Nice, but very different.

Tihocan
14th Feb 2015, 01:02
Jesus, finally someone is accepting that. :D

I guess the other side of the coin is you can't reject a diagnosis unless there actually is one.
And then second to that, the author basically implies there's no recovery from PTSD :-/

Gitb97
14th Feb 2015, 01:24
Well, Himiko possesses her in the novel. The magazine specified why she's in a worse mental state, it was because of all the supernatural stuff that happened to her.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about Mathias transferring souls. Oops. I should probably read the novel to open my mind a bit about that topic. :)

Driber
14th Feb 2015, 01:38
As much as I'd like to say "yay, win!" that sentence is not logically correct. Suspected is not diagnosis.

Exactly ;)

Oh and funny you consider this some kind of battle to "win" or "lose". I guess I understand now why you've been at it so much :rasp:


Well, I suppose that settles it

Not exactly. Though Rhianna answers the question, she doesn't actually confirms (nor denies) PTSD.


Very reasonable position. Although I think that whenever someone says 'the industry has suffered from...' they mean that they don't like a certain thing, and that hardly makes the industry suffer if those people weren't part of the target audience to begin with. The things the industry really suffers from are excusivity deals with Micro... well, anyway...

Yeah, using the term "suffering from" implies that sexualization is inherently a bad thing. And that I do not agree with.

Bayonetta is a good example of a sexy and sexualized character who kicks ass and thus is a positive role model. So was old Lara.


The money thing also caught my eye, here's my thoughts:

Lara's wealth wasn't spoken about in the game, but Rhianna did speak about it. I assume she means that it's changed from not wanted any of it, in a sense trying to forget about it because for one thing, it would be accepting that her parents are most likely never coming back, and also that she wants to stand on her own feet and make money her way, maybe proving it to herself first.

Yamatai most likely helped, she proved to herself that she really can do anything, and this is a bit of a stretch, but perhaps she's beginning to accept that she's a Croft and being wealthy is a part of that title. She knows that she doesn't have to rely on her family's inheritance, but it doesn't mean she has to so greatly avoid it. Maybe it's even a bit of a segway to having a playable Croft Manor, even if she doesn't live there.

That's pretty much how I read that, yeah.


She can always win the manor playing the lottery :D Or more in the spirit of Tomb Raider: use a pirate treasure she found in a wreck to buy back her family's heirloom after centuries of it being in the posession of the government.

Or: after saving England from some disaster is being rewarded by the queen with knighthood and an old manor house.

Why the need to make it so complicated? Lara's mansion could simply be her family mansion at this point in the timeline and eventually become her mansion through inheritance later down the timeline.


Well: as long as the game itself doesn't make one thing or the other canon, I'm just gonna assume that she doesn't have money because she has always been middle class or can't access the money because of legal reasons.

Lara has not "always been middle class". I'm not even sure we can call her "middle class" right now.


Because this: 'has money but doesn't want to use it and works crappy jobs instead to pay the rent' is one of the worst premises I have ever heard.

I don't see what's wrong with that. Sounds perfectly believable to me.


Ok, fair enough. Then my response should have been "your argument is non-equivalent".

I don't think so. But let's move on.


:lol: Volts is that way ->

Holy crap :lol:

I swear... you guys put something in my drink, haha.


So, what - are you downgrading the she can be "easily classed as a superhero" comment to "she's not the girl next door"? She's a hero, that's for sure, but she's not someone with superhuman powers defending the general public against threat. (Yet ;) )

I'm not downgrading anything, it was just a different way of saying that I find the statement "she's not a superhero" ridiculous considering the above-human feats she does.


I guess the other side of the coin is you can't reject a diagnosis unless there actually is one.


The way I read that passage was "Someone suspected that Lara might have PTSD, but Lara refuses the thought of a possible PTSD diagnose and thus fights hard to try to not end up with actual PTSD."


And then second to that, the author basically implies there's no recovery from PTSD :-/

Which would work against the idea that Lara has PTSD, since it's being suggested that she's fighting her way out of whatever mental issues she's having.

IvanaKC
14th Feb 2015, 02:03
Which would work against the idea that Lara has PTSD, since it's being suggested that she's fighting her way out of whatever mental issues she's having.


This.


I guess the other side of the coin is you can't reject a diagnosis unless there actually is one.
And then second to that, the author basically implies there's no recovery from PTSD :-/


And it says that Lara did recover: "She got over them. She had help. She was one of the lucky ones."

Rai
14th Feb 2015, 02:29
And it says that Lara did recover: "She got over them. She had help. She was one of the lucky ones."
I'd agree with you, except she's just come out of a very vivid flashback, where she was "hyperventilating. Sweating and shaking, Lara felt cold and pale." Lara is having to talk herself into a calmer state, go for a walk to get over it. She later suffers another attack. In the comics she's having bad dreams and hallucinations. Clearly, whatever condition she has, be it anxiety or 'suspected PTSD', she hasn't got over it. She's still getting help. If Lara feels lucky, it's likely because she is getting help and is able to find ways to cope, like physical activity.

Tihocan
14th Feb 2015, 02:47
Exactly ;)

Oh and funny you consider this some kind of battle to "win" or "lose". I guess I understand now why you've been at it so much :rasp:
Nah, tongue in cheek. But again, the sentence is borked.


Not exactly. Though Rhianna answers the question, she doesn't actually confirms (nor denies) PTSD.
Jesus man, do you need a presidential order or something?
"how dominant will her battle with PTSD be throughout the storyline?"
"It’s part and parcel of her journey".


I'm not downgrading anything, it was just a different way of saying that I find the statement "she's not a superhero" ridiculous considering the above-human feats she does.
Ya hear that Brian - you're RIDONKULOUS!


The way I read that passage was "Someone suspected that Lara might have PTSD, but Lara refuses the thought of a possible PTSD diagnose and thus fights hard to try to not end up with actual PTSD."

Which would work against the idea that Lara has PTSD, since it's being suggested that she's fighting her way out of whatever mental issues she's having.

Read it how you like :rasp:
There's no argument to the second statement, except for the fact that Abnett (or Lara?) is inherently wrong.

Driber
14th Feb 2015, 03:15
Jesus man, do you need a presidential order or something?

No, just a clear acknowledgment. And one that settles the inconsistencies in the lore. So far, we've only gotten more questions than answers.


"how dominant will her battle with PTSD be throughout the storyline?"
"It’s part and parcel of her journey".

The interviewer is still putting words into her mouth there.


Roofies! Now be a good girl and submit...

Holy crap, a rape joke, coming from you of all people? :eek:


Ya hear that Brian - you're RIDONKULOUS!

He's not. Just that statement is :p


Read it how you like :rasp:

Sure, if you can read things how you like, so can I ;)


There's no argument to the second statement, except for the fact that Abnett's (or Lara?) is inherently wrong.

Which statement?

And good to see you acknowledge that there's something wrong in the official lore :p

Tihocan
14th Feb 2015, 03:31
No, just a clear acknowledgment. And one that settles the inconsistencies in the lore
Does it?


The interviewer is still putting words into her mouth there.
No? He asked the question directly, and unless he altered the text of the response, Rhianna answered directly.


Which statement?

And good to see you acknowledge that there's something wrong in the official lore :p
That it invalidates PTSD. But it cannot, as it's incorrect.
Also, if the official lore is not to be trusted, then all arguments are invalid. All of them.


Holy crap, a rape joke, coming from you of all people? :eek:
Yeah, that's not cool. Sorry. Rape's not funny, even if I didn't refer to it directly but as merely a method of coersion. I sincerely apologise.

Though, I don't know what of all people I am supposed to be... :scratch:

Chocolate_shake
14th Feb 2015, 06:31
The Xbox magazine gives a much more juicy preview than gameinformer . Some info sounds absolutely delicious -

"We catch glimpses of catacombs sprawling over multiple floors , a waterlogged shrine with lakes of shimmering green murk , an intriguing hellenic-looking number, with verdant greenery hanging from majestic pillars . "

"further into the cave we find an ancient greek ship stuck preserved in a frozen waterfall. A secret tomb, a reward for having the guts to leave the path and face your fears." :D

Blacktron
14th Feb 2015, 08:02
The Xbox magazine gives a much more juicy preview than gameinformer . Some info sounds absolutely delicious -

"We catch glimpses of catacombs sprawling over multiple floors , a waterlogged shrine with lakes of shimmering green murk , an intriguing hellenic-looking number, with verdant greenery hanging from majestic pillars . "

"further into the cave we find an ancient greek ship stuck preserved in a frozen waterfall. A secret tomb, a reward for having the guts to leave the path and face your fears." :D
Wow, you know where to find the scans for that?

Tecstar70
14th Feb 2015, 08:13
The website is here:
http://www.totalxbox.com/83108/oxm-122-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-forza-6-halo-5/

Blacktron
14th Feb 2015, 08:17
Thanks :thumb:

AdeleDazeem
14th Feb 2015, 08:27
Here's the cover image without writing on it (http://i.imgur.com/eJIu4q5.jpg). Now that I look at it again, it's not as bad, I still think it's too much of a variant from other Croft works.

Gimme some room, I need to regain my breathing. That's one amazing picture! I wish there was a high-res version that I could use for a desktop. :)


In one of the comics (which are canon),

Alright, that's it. I'm getting the comics!

Bridgetkfisher
14th Feb 2015, 12:42
why is she scared of that bear? It just wants to hug her... I refuse to kill any bears! In the old TR games I used to run around the bears, killing them was optional, getting a big hug was also optional, but bear hugs are so strong few can survive their awesomeness!

a_big_house
14th Feb 2015, 12:52
Go and read that sentence again. It refers to anxiety attacks. I have experienced them too, do I have a PTSD? :rolleyes:
No, but have you been through what Lara went through? :lol:


I thought the same thing. I asked Rhianna a while ago on Twitter whether or not she's been spoken of in the reboot, and the response was quite short, "We have not addressed Lara's mother," or something quite similar. Hmm... :scratch:
Secrets are being kept...

IvanaKC
14th Feb 2015, 12:59
The website is here:
http://www.totalxbox.com/83108/oxm-122-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-forza-6-halo-5/

Oh, look at that badass pose! Though it's not an in-game pic, it's still impressive.


No, but have you been through what Lara went through? :lol:


It still refers to anxiety attacks, not PTSD. Period.

a_big_house
14th Feb 2015, 13:26
It still refers to anxiety attacks, not PTSD. Period.

Alright, chill your beans, nevertheless it still mentions PTSD. So whatever is wrong (or was), could have been PTSD, but also could not have been, there's no definitive answer, I get that.

KManX89
14th Feb 2015, 13:33
can't wait to see this game hand Uncharted 4 its a** this holiday. The queen is back.

Too bad it's gonna be on the XBone.

But yeah, 'tis got me excited. :D

RybatGrimes
14th Feb 2015, 16:59
The Xbox magazine gives a much more juicy preview than gameinformer . Some info sounds absolutely delicious -

"We catch glimpses of catacombs sprawling over multiple floors , a waterlogged shrine with lakes of shimmering green murk , an intriguing hellenic-looking number, with verdant greenery hanging from majestic pillars . "

"further into the cave we find an ancient greek ship stuck preserved in a frozen waterfall. A secret tomb, a reward for having the guts to leave the path and face your fears." :D

Ooo, that is ~juicy~, it sounds amazing tbh, but I still can't get past the exclusivity deal. It's like everytime I get excited or see something I like a bucket of water is thrown on me to remind me that I won't be able to play it. :p

I'm a bit curious about that outfit with the green army looking jacket. Because we've seen Lara in that Red coat, the reboot looking outfit in the Desert place which I think Brian referred to as "The Oasis", but where does the one with the green jacket come in? We've seen it on the cover of the OMX magazine, the GI magazine, in the CGI trailer, and in multiple concept arts. Wouldn't it be weird if it wasn't featured in the game.

IvanaKC
14th Feb 2015, 18:37
Right? Kind of one of the reasons I've stopped posting on here so much, It's like you'd better have a thesis prepared on why you think the sky is blue around here. :p


*Driber mode on*

You can't argue without arguments. And the fact that sky is blue is a fact, there is nothing to think about that. :p

AdeleDazeem
14th Feb 2015, 19:17
*Driber mode on*

You can't argue without arguments. And the fact that sky is blue is a fact, there is nothing to think about that. :p

But is it #1A64BF or #649ED5?

a_big_house
14th Feb 2015, 19:21
But is it #1A64BF or #649ED5?

50 Shades of Sky Blue

Coming to a forum near you

Tihocan
14th Feb 2015, 19:24
*Driber mode on*

You can't argue without arguments. And the fact that sky is blue is a fact, there is nothing to think about that. :p

*Tihocan mode on*

Sky's not blue, Driber, it's clear. It only appears blue to use because blue is more heavily diffracted in the upper atmosphere. :rasp:


50 Shades of Sky Blue

Coming to a forum near you

Aw dude, the double entendre is thick with that one.

IvanaKC
14th Feb 2015, 20:40
*Tihocan mode on*

Sky's not blue, Driber, it's clear. It only appears blue to use because blue is more heavily diffracted in the upper atmosphere. :rasp:


*Driber mode still on*

Then nothing has any color at all. Colors are actually emitted wave lengths of light which our brain interprets as color because there are three kinds of cone cells which send different signals through the optic nerve. Add one or lose one kind and sky won't be blue for you anymore. The reason we say the sky is blue because there are some standards scientists defined as normal and that is that 90% of people see that sky is blue.

*Driber mode off*

Hey, I think we aren't discussing TR anymore... Anyway, I still think there is no PTSD for Lara and I hope it will come out as true. :D

AlexWeiss
14th Feb 2015, 23:38
Exactly ;)

Yeah, using the term "suffering from" implies that sexualization is inherently a bad thing. And that I do not agree with.
She didn't mean that it was suffering from the sexualization, she emphasized that it it suffered from sexualization without any further character development:
However, in the past the industry has suffered from sexy merely being used as a solo personality trait. where as Lara was never an example of this; she was not only sexy, but extremely intelligent, strong, and courageous.


Because this: 'has money but doesn't want to use it and works crappy jobs instead to pay the rent' is one of the worst premises I have ever heard.
Driber's right, this is believable. Every person I've known that comes from a wealthy family is constantly asked about money. It sucks to be held accountable for your family's earning and not have done any of it yourself because in everyone else's eyes, you basically live off your family's money, even if it isn't true. Lara didn't want to be that girl, she wanted to make something of her life on her own, I don't see the big problem about that.

The website is here:
http://www.totalxbox.com/83108/oxm-122-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-forza-6-halo-5/
Is is only available for the UK? Because it just says page not found for me :(

EDIT: Yes it was. I had to a UK proxy server.
EDIT 2: If you're also in the us, you can buy it from Zinio (http://www.zinio.com/magazine/Xbox:-The-Official-Magazine/pr-500636014/cat-cat1960060/prnt-cat1960014)

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 00:32
Every person I've known that comes from a wealthy family is constantly asked about money. It sucks to be held accountable for your family's earning and not have done any of it yourself because in everyone else's eyes, you basically live off your family's money, even if it isn't true. Lara didn't want to be that girl, she wanted to make something of her life on her own, I don't see the big problem about that.
I usually don't go deep into discussion, but in this case I do feel the need to explain why it doesn't make sense to me on any level.

For starters: what is money good for if not to spend it? Is she gonna swim in it like Uncle Scrooge McDuck? Money is paper and common metal that people say is worth something. If you have it in abundance it is completely ridiculous to work a crappy job, probably earning the minimum wage (and denying that job to some poor guy who actually needs it, by the way), wasting precious time that could have been used to study. Isn't that her great passion? It's like working your ass off to dig a well when you're living next to Lake Huron.

Even when accepting the premise that she feels some moral obligation to work for it herself then what is that family's money good for? Donate it to charity then. There's still starving African children out there you know. If it is about learning the values of hard work and being together with other hard-working people: do volunteer work so you won't have to steal someone elses job. And handing out soup to homeless people is doing a lot more good to the world than waitressing tables serving beer.

And the question 'what is that money good for' does not just apply on an in-universe level: but also on a scriptwriting level. If that money is never gonna be used, then why the hell did you make her have it in the first place?? It's like saying that she had measels three years ago but she's fine now... If that plotpoint never has a pay-off it shouldn't be there.
Of course I have my theories about why she has money but doesn't use it: they figure that an ordinary working girl is more relatable; I understand that, but just make her a middle class person then. But I think they're too afraid to devorce her from her rich person history and there may be a moment were the story calls for her being in need of a lot of money. And that is why we are having this shoehorned premise of having money but not using it. There is an easy solution for that that doesn't require these mental gymnastics and instead is simple and totaly in line with the premise of being a Tomb Raider: let her find an ancient gold treasure and she has all the money she needs whenever she needs it.

And finaly: the premise of TR9 was that the Endurance expedition had limited financial supply that came out of the pocket of Sam's family and... whatever the blonde guy was called. At no point did Lara consider using her wealth to fund the expedition, the implications being:
- Lara doesn't care for the expedition, not enough to pull her wallet.
- Lara is happy to let Sam and the blonde guy pay for everything and doesn't contribute a penny herself. Uncle Scrooge McDuck behaviour indeed.
- Nobody is even asking her whether she can contribute something to the expedition. So for some reason, nobody knows anything about her being rich, not even Sam and Roth, the friend of the family.

I'm even surprised myself at how many reasons I can make up why it makes no sense. I stand by my point: it's the dumbest, most implausible, forced, shoehorned, calling for mental gymnastics, awkward premise I have seen in a long time, and totaly unnecessary too: just turn it into the 'money is unaccessible because of legal reasons' scenario: say that her evil uncle's lawyers are denying her the money. All problems solved! Except the one about it being unnecessary on a scriptwriting level.

Now considering your argument that she doesn't want to have people look at her as someone who's living on her parents money:
- First of all: every kid does that untill their first job. And many still do so after that. Nothing to be ashamed at.
- She cares too much about the opinions of others then. Let them mind their own damn busines.
- There may just as well be people who disaprove of her being in the possessionof boatloads of money without using it: you can never please everybody because everyone has different opinions. So you might as well stop trying.

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 00:38
^ Wow. :thumb:

Maybe Lara's parents cut her off for being common? That would also explain why they aren't mentioned much, sorta

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 00:44
I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks.

You're saying Lara's parents were evil?

Driber
15th Feb 2015, 00:48
Does it?


No? He asked the question directly, and unless he altered the text of the response, Rhianna answered directly.


That it invalidates PTSD. But it cannot, as it's incorrect.
Also, if the official lore is not to be trusted, then all arguments are invalid. All of them.


Sorry, Ti, I'm not really interested in arguing this further at this point. PTSD is not confirmed as far as I'm concerned. Let's move on and maybe revisit if new info comes out.


Yeah, that's not cool. Sorry. Rape's not funny, even if I didn't refer to it directly but as merely a method of coersion. I sincerely apologise.

Though, I don't know what of all people I am supposed to be... :scratch:

Oh no need to apologize, Ti. The rape joke didn't offend me. In fact, I actually thought it was funny and chuckled, heh.

I was just kinda shocked that you of all people made such a joke, because I thought that in our (long :D) Vlad discussion in the 18+ thread, you told us that you have bad personal experiences regarding rape and that you think it's the worst thing in the world.

Though now that I think about it, I wonder if I'm not again mistaken and if that wasn't Volts as well, haha.



*Driber mode on*

You can't argue without arguments. And the fact that sky is blue is a fact, there is nothing to think about that. :p


*Tihocan mode on*

Sky's not blue, Driber, it's clear. It only appears blue to use because blue is more heavily diffracted in the upper atmosphere. :rasp:



*Driber mode still on*

Then nothing has any color at all. Colors are actually emitted wave lengths of light which our brain interprets as color because there are three kinds of cone cells which send different signals through the optic nerve. Add one or lose one kind and sky won't be blue for you anymore. The reason we say the sky is blue because there are some standards scientists defined as normal and that is that 90% of people see that sky is blue.

*Driber mode off*

Hey, I think we aren't discussing TR anymore... Anyway, I still think there is no PTSD for Lara and I hope it will come out as true. :D

LMAO, you guys crack me up :lol:



*Driber mode on*

You're both incorrect - it's 1 AM; the sky is black.

:D


She didn't mean that it was suffering from the sexualization

How do you know if she meant that? Does she list game characters who were sexualized and who didn't make the industry "suffer"?


she emphasized that it it suffered from sexualization without any further character development

Which is still nonsense. Show me proof that this actually happened.

It's just a baseless claim that is repeatedly being thrown out there without anything tangible to back it up.

See all of Sarkeesian's BS videos :whistle:


where as Lara was never an example of this; she was not only sexy, but extremely intelligent, strong, and courageous.

Right, which is exactly what I wrote in the post you're responding to ;)

"Bayonetta is a good example of a sexy and sexualized character who kicks ass and thus is a positive role model. So was old Lara."


Driber's right, this is believable. Every person I've known that comes from a wealthy family is constantly asked about money. It sucks to be held accountable for your family's earning and not have done any of it yourself because in everyone else's eyes, you basically live off your family's money, even if it isn't true. Lara didn't want to be that girl, she wanted to make something of her life on her own, I don't see the big problem about that.

:thumb:

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 00:54
I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks.

You're saying Lara's parents were evil?

Yes, I agree with what you said, I just couldn't put it into good words haha

Maybe... It would be a new twist to Laras character...

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 00:56
Maybe... It would be a new twist to Laras character...

A dark twist, hehe...

IvanaKC
15th Feb 2015, 01:08
LMAO, you guys crack me up :lol:



*Driber mode on*

You're both incorrect - it's 1 AM; the sky is black.

:D

Don't you even... You're THE Driber, always in Driber mode - there's no on/off button for you! :p

You're like Obelix and the magic potion...

Tihocan
15th Feb 2015, 01:40
Sorry, Ti, I'm not really interested in arguing this further at this point. PTSD is not confirmed as far as I'm concerned. Let's move on and maybe revisit if new info comes out.
:thumb:


Oh no need to apologize, Ti. The rape joke didn't offend me. In fact, I actually thought it was funny and chuckled, heh.

I was just kinda shocked that you of all people made such a joke, because I thought that in our (long :D) Vlad discussion in the 18+ thread, you told us that you have bad personal experiences regarding rape and that you think it's the worst thing in the world.

Though now that I think about it, I wonder if I'm not again mistaken and if that wasn't Volts as well, haha.

Hah, no, this time it was me :D

TL;DR not cool.

I thought about it afterwards and felt that it was "one of things" that perhaps advocates such as Rhianna and Megan would feel like it was a slap in the face, in essence trivialising the issue.
I do think rape (along with religion based terrorism, child abuse) are among the worst acts of humankind. But I can still joke about it - I joke about everything - but in the presence of the appropriate people. Not saying I hang out with rape advocates, but persons that are generally unaffected. I'm desensitised, but I don't want to be insensitive.

It wasn't until you put the words "rape joke" there that it dawned on me that's what it was. My personal experience is indirect, but still significant. I often uses jokes as to demean things, which often gets me into trouble :rolleyes:
I also have a disconnect between humour and reality, to which either side has a different view and response.



LMAO, you guys crack me up :lol:
*Driber mode on*
You're both incorrect - it's 1 AM; the sky is black.
Don't you dare bring perspective into this ridiculous debate.


How do you know if she meant that? Does she list game characters who were sexualized and who didn't make the industry "suffer"?
Which is still nonsense. Show me proof that this actually happened.
It's just a baseless claim that is repeatedly being thrown out there without anything tangible to back it up.
See all of Sarkeesian's BS videos :whistle:
Right, which is exactly what I wrote in the post you're responding to ;)
"Bayonetta is a good example of a sexy and sexualized character who kicks ass and thus is a positive role model. So was old Lara."

Personally I think it's perceived as having inadvertently created a stereotype, pigeonhole, whatever that perhaps caused creators to fear developing something outside the "norm" of a hot, ass-kicking heroine. But that's the world of entertainment for you.

Driber
15th Feb 2015, 01:51
I usually don't go deep into discussion, but in this case I do feel the need to explain why it doesn't make sense to me on any level.

For starters: what is money good for if not to spend it?

Financial security for one.


Is she gonna swim in it like Uncle Scrooge McDuck?

Of course not.


Money is paper and common metal that people say is worth something.

That's cash.

Money comes in many forms. Lara's money isn't necessarily cash. In fact, I doubt it that cash makes up a large part of Lara's money.


If you have it in abundance it is completely ridiculous to work a crappy job

Wanting to make it on your own is a perfectly good reason IMO. Also, there's the social aspect to it, not just the $$$


probably earning the minimum wage (and denying that job to some poor guy who actually needs it, by the way)

Lara is not real. She's not "stealing" any jobs from poor people.


wasting precious time that could have been used to study

By your own logic Lara is wasting a hell lot of precious time going on self-serving missions stealing artifacts and endangering people, when she could spend all that time helping the poor.


Isn't that her great passion? It's like working your ass off to dig a well when you're living next to Lake Huron.

Which fits Lara's historically stubborn personality just fine, wouldn't you say.


Even when accepting the premise that she feels some moral obligation to work for it herself then what is that family's money good for? Donate it to charity then.

Her family's money may come in handy one day for a mission that she isn't able to fund on her own / with the help of others.


There's still starving African children out there you know.

How do you know this? Did she devs say that Lara lives in a world with starving African children?


If it is about learning the values of hard work and being together with other hard-working people: do volunteer work so you won't have to steal someone elses job.

Already addressed this.


And handing out soup to homeless people is doing a lot more good to the world than waitressing tables serving beer.

...or going on self-serving expensive, bombastic missions.


And the question 'what is that money good for' does not just apply on an in-universe level: but also on a scriptwriting level. If that money is never gonna be used, then why the hell did you make her have it in the first place??

Because that's the history of Lara Croft. It's been established in 1996. If you don't like it, why are you a TR fan in the first place?


It's like saying that she had measels three years ago but she's fine now... If that plotpoint never has a pay-off it shouldn't be there.

You don't know if that plotpoint will never have a pay-off. You'll just have to wait and see how future TR games pan out.


Of course I have my theories about why she has money but doesn't use it: they figure that an ordinary working girl is more relatable

That's not a theory, that's pretty much fact. The devs said as much.


I understand that, but just make her a middle class person then.

1996.


But I think they're too afraid to devorce her from her rich person history

I don't think it's a case of being afraid. I think it's simply a case of keeping one's options open. And the devs are allowed to do that.


and there may be a moment were the story calls for her being in need of a lot of money.

Glad you see this, too. Heh.


And that is why we are having this shoehorned premise of having money but not using it.

How is that "shoehorning"?

Putting token characters into games, that's shoehorning.


There is an easy solution for that that doesn't require these mental gymnastics

I'm not sure you understand what the term "mental gymnastics" means.


and instead is simple and totaly in line with the premise of being a Tomb Raider: let her find an ancient gold treasure and she has all the money she needs whenever she needs it.

So Lara needs to donate her family's money to charity to feed the poor, but at the same time it's justified that she steals immensely valuable artifacts from their rightful owners in order to maintain her family's mansion, going on expensive self-serving missions, etc? That makes no logical sense.


And finaly: the premise of TR9 was that the Endurance expedition had limited financial supply that came out of the pocket of Sam's family and... whatever the blonde guy was called. At no point did Lara consider using her wealth to fund the expedition, the implications being:
- Lara doesn't care for the expedition, not enough to pull her wallet.

She couldn't pull her wallet for the Yamatai mission even if she wanted to.


- Lara is happy to let Sam and the blonde guy pay for everything and doesn't contribute a penny herself. Uncle Scrooge McDuck behaviour indeed.

Repeated argument. See above.


- Nobody is even asking her whether she can contribute something to the expedition. So for some reason, nobody knows anything about her being rich, not even Sam and Roth, the friend of the family.

The notion of Sam, Lara's best friend, not know about Lara's history I find ludicrous. Same goes for Roth, who knows Lara since she was little.


I'm even surprised myself at how many reasons I can make up why it makes no sense. I stand by my point: it's the dumbest, most implausible, forced, shoehorned, calling for mental gymnastics, awkward premise I have seen in a long time, and totaly unnecessary too: just turn it into the 'money is unaccessible because of legal reasons' scenario: say that her evil uncle's lawyers are denying her the money. All problems solved! Except the one about it being unnecessary on a scriptwriting level.

So you're essentially proposing that the devs rewrite the official lore of the reboot already after the first game in the reboot? That has got to be the most implausible, forced, shoehorned, awkward and impractical solution I've heard in a long time. And totally unnecessary, too.


Now considering your argument that she doesn't want to have people look at her as someone who's living on her parents money:
- First of all: every kid does that untill their first job. And many still do so after that. Nothing to be ashamed at.

I'm not sure if "shame" is the correct word. I would say "pride", "need for independence". Which, a lot of kids and young people feel.


- She cares too much about the opinions of others then. Let them mind their own damn busines.

I'm not sure if the opinions of others is her main driving factor. But it certainly could be a (small) part of it. And that is perfectly realistic and believable if you ask me.


- There may just as well be people who disaprove of her being in the possessionof boatloads of money without using it: you can never please everybody because everyone has different opinions. So you might as well stop trying.

Same as above - I'm not sure if the opinions of others is her main driving factor.



Don't you even... You're THE Driber, always in Driber mode - there's no on/off button for you! :p

You're like Obelix and the magic potion...

:D :D :D

Chocolate_shake
15th Feb 2015, 02:26
This is what Rhianna said in the crystal podcast ( no. 15 ) -

"So she technically has access to that money, but she doesn’t want to touch it for a number of reasons. For one, she very much wants to stand on her own two feet. She’s very… I don’t know about stubborn, but she wants to make her own way in the world on her own terms. She puts herself through university. She works several jobs in order to do so, one of which she mentions in the game. She talks about a late shift at the Nine Bells. She doesn’t use her family’s money to do that. She does it herself. Also, because her parents are missing, she doesn’t want to touch that money, because it would sort of be tantamount to admitting that they’re really gone, that they’re not going to come back. We explore this a bit more in the promotional comics. She actually ties up that wealth in trusts and all kinds of things so she can’t touch it, even if she wanted to, at this particular moment in the game. That’s not to say she won’t change her mind about it. But where she is now, we didn’t want that to be a factor. I wanted her to feel about it differently. I wanted her to feel something that I think modern audiences would accept a little bit more than the sort of throwing-money-all-over-the-place, gadgets-up-the-yin-yang, fancy this, fancy that… I think that’s hard to relate to, and a little bit crass in this day and age. She might get there one day, but this is how Lara feels at 21."

Tihocan
15th Feb 2015, 02:27
You're like Obelix and the magic potion...

I can't believe you had the Gaul to say such a thing.


Also, because her parents are missing, she doesn’t want to touch that money, because it would sort of be tantamount to admitting that they’re really gone, that they’re not going to come back. We explore this a bit more in the promotional comics. She actually ties up that wealth in trusts and all kinds of things so she can’t touch it, even if she wanted to, at this particular moment in the game.

Oh. That's so depressing. :(

IvanaKC
15th Feb 2015, 02:37
This is what Rhianna said in the crystal podcast ( no. 15 ) -

"So she technically has access to that money, but she doesn’t want to touch it for a number of reasons. For one, she very much wants to stand on her own two feet. She’s very… I don’t know about stubborn, but she wants to make her own way in the world on her own terms. She puts herself through university. She works several jobs in order to do so, one of which she mentions in the game. She talks about a late shift at the Nine Bells. She doesn’t use her family’s money to do that. She does it herself. Also, because her parents are missing, she doesn’t want to touch that money, because it would sort of be tantamount to admitting that they’re really gone, that they’re not going to come back. We explore this a bit more in the promotional comics. She actually ties up that wealth in trusts and all kinds of things so she can’t touch it, even if she wanted to, at this particular moment in the game. That’s not to say she won’t change her mind about it. But where she is now, we didn’t want that to be a factor. I wanted her to feel about it differently. I wanted her to feel something that I think modern audiences would accept a little bit more than the sort of throwing-money-all-over-the-place, gadgets-up-the-yin-yang, fancy this, fancy that… I think that’s hard to relate to, and a little bit crass in this day and age. She might get there one day, but this is how Lara feels at 21."


Does it have to be said every single time that we have to be able to relate to Lara? It started to be annoying, not everyone wants to relate to her and moreover no one really can. I was hoping exactly to see some fancy (usually expensive) gadgets, not too many improvised ones. Such a shame they are stripping away the factor which made me play TR (and games in general) in the first place - stuff I can't do, see or have in real life and character which definitely cannot exist real world. :hmm:


I can't believe you had the Gaul to say such a thing.

:lol: :lol:

Well, he basically IS the Driber mode, isn't he? He fell in a magic potion of "Driber mode" and it stayed with him forever while the rest of us peasants have to have the on/off button.

Tihocan
15th Feb 2015, 02:56
Does it have to be said every single time that we have to be able to relate to Lara? It started to be annoying, not everyone wants to relate to her...
Don'tsayitoutloud...don'tsayitoutloud...don'tsayitoutloud.......


Well, he basically IS the Driber mode, isn't he? He fell in a magic potion of "Driber mode" and it stayed with him forever while the rest of us peasants have to have the on/off button.
His arguments do pack quite a punch. I just come here to Getafix of visceral debate.

AlexWeiss
15th Feb 2015, 04:18
Oh, joy, another semi-debate.


If you have it in abundance it is completely ridiculous to work a crappy job, probably earning the minimum wage (and denying that job to some poor guy who actually needs it, by the way), wasting precious time that could have been used to study. Isn't that her great passion? It's like working your ass off to dig a well when you're living next to Lake Huron.
Wanting to support yourself without the help of your parents (alive or dead, may I add) isn't a bad thing. She was in Uni when she worked those crap jobs, so it's not like she had time to participate in digs when she has to attend lectures and other classes daily.


Even when accepting the premise that she feels some moral obligation to work for it herself then what is that family's money good for? Donate it to charity then. There's still starving African children out there you know.
There's starving children all over the world if that makes a difference. Chocolate_Shake answered this one, but to add to it, perhaps she hadn't felt worthy of it at the time, but she knew one day she could have a different outlook on it. Who knows.


And the question 'what is that money good for' does not just apply on an in-universe level: but also on a scriptwriting level. If that money is never gonna be used, then why the hell did you make her have it in the first place??
We don't know what Rhianna meant about her saying, "However, Lara’s relationship with her family’s wealth is something she’s wrestled with ever since Yamatai. She still comes from a wealthy family, but her attitude towards that wealth is what’s changed." It could mean she's having second thoughts about the bonds, but it took Yamatai for her to realise it because she never saw herself as "that kind of Croft" until then. Again, we don't know yet.


At no point did Lara consider using her wealth to fund the expedition
Another thing mentioned in Chocolate_Shake's quote. She can't touch it.


- Lara is happy to let Sam and the blonde guy pay for everything and doesn't contribute a penny herself. Uncle Scrooge McDuck behaviour indeed.
Actually, fun fact: Whitman can't even contribute anything. According to "The Beginning" comic, Whitman's producers that orignally funded the expedition pulled out at the last minute. That's what made him go to Roth to borrow the ship, but Roth demanded that he chooses his own crew, and since Lara has been his little protege and in a sense a daughter, she was one of the crew members. He paid a very small amount, if any.

- Nobody is even asking her whether she can contribute something to the expedition. So for some reason, nobody knows anything about her being rich, not even Sam and Roth, the friend of the family.
Another thing in the same comic, Whitman is already informed that Lara can't touch the money. He does however ask about it first, just not to her face. I believe it was one of his agents that told him after reading her file or something.


Now considering your argument that she doesn't want to have people look at her as someone who's living on her parents money:
- First of all: every kid does that untill their first job. And many still do so after that. Nothing to be ashamed at.

I feel as though the circumstancecs are different when you're living in your presumed dead family's money.

Maybe Lara's parents cut her off for being common? That would also explain why they aren't mentioned much, sorta
THIS PART IS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT AND MAYBE WORTH READING BECAUSE LARA'S PARENTS
I know it was already spoken about when Chocolate mentioned the quote and I already said they aren't just unheard of, but presumed dead, but I do want to bring up something because this is similar to Classic Lara's original lore. Remember that this is an origin story, so we get to see things from the very beginning of her career. The original lore actually isn't all that different from what they're doing with this, she didn't have money in the beginning of Classic TR's world either. Lara's parents wanted her to be a good wife, not archaeologist. In the original comics, Lara at the age of 21 (or close to it) goes down in a plane crash in the Himilayas with her fiance and the rest of the people on board. She was the only survivor and endured extreme conditions to live through it. It was in that moment that she realised what she wanted to do: be an adventurer. Her parents, however, did not approve whatsoever. They cut her off of all the money she had and it forced her to begin writing books about her experience (and later the adventures she has) to fund the next expedition.

The only difference in this is that they needed a different approach. Based on the idea that Rhianna "isn't discussing Lara's mother at the moment" and that they're only presumed dead, they'll probably want to do a story about her parents at one point or another, but didn't want to make it so they hate her. That being said, they also needed a way to deprive her of the money like in the original story, and her character needs to unfold in a specific way to reveal specific personality traits that'll contribute towards her later self, which a Lara closer to how we saw her in the classics. There's more to this that I wanted to write but this is getting too long and my lack of sleep caused me to lose the thought I had. I just wanted to get the thought floating in some people's heads, maybe to improve upon it or, hell, even argue it.

How do you know if she meant that? Does she list game characters who were sexualized and who didn't make the industry "suffer"?
Because she literally said it. Right there. In the interview.

I personally don’t have an issue with female characters being sexy. However, in the past the industry has suffered from sexy merely being used as a solo personality trait. Likewise, the definition of what constitutes sexy has been very narrow and frequently meant overly sexualized, which was off-putting for some. We definitely need more diversity in this area and to create more characters who’re sexy because they’re smart, funny, thoughtful, loyal, textured and flawed people, on top of whatever they may look like. I still think Lara’s sexy. She’s beautiful, fierce, empathetic, determined and smart – which arguably she was before. But now she’s just not sexualized. I think that decision has definitely helped us reach new audiences.




Which is still nonsense. Show me proof that this actually happened.

It's just a baseless claim that is repeatedly being thrown out there without anything tangible to back it up.

See all of Sarkeesian's BS videos :whistle:

I didn't say it, Rhianna did. Though I do agree with her, I don't feel like arguing that point at the moment.

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 09:27
Oh, joy, another semi-debate.

I don't know what is so semi about it, but don't worry: I am not interested in discussing these details until pigs fly. Those are not important anyway: what's the point is that my theory is the following:

I don't believe for a second that this 'has money but doesn't want to spend it' character trait was created with the intent to let her have that specific personality trait. It's way too shoehorned for that. No, I believe the intent was to let her have a more relatable personality, so we feel more connected to her when she's getting the snot kicked out of her, but without devorcing her from her rich aristrocratic past. It's the typical compromising, sitting on the fence, wanting best of both worlds, mentality of Crystal Dynamics. And the 'has money but doesn't want to spend it' trait was created to connect those two conflicting premises. And nobody seemed to care about the illogicalities, implausibilities and plotholes it created. Mental lazyness I call it.

And that is the result what you get when you're creating characters from the outside: to make character traits that are meant to justify pre-established premises and settings. Instead of writing a character from the inside: were pre-established character traits shape the story.

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 09:31
The only difference in this is that they needed a different approach. Based on the idea that Rhianna "isn't discussing Lara's mother at the moment" and that they're only presumed dead, they'll probably want to do a story about her parents at one point or another, but didn't want to make it so they hate her. That being said, they also needed a way to deprive her of the money like in the original story, and her character needs to unfold in a specific way to reveal specific personality traits that'll contribute towards her later self, which a Lara closer to how we saw her in the classics. There's more to this that I wanted to write but this is getting too long and my lack of sleep caused me to lose the thought I had. I just wanted to get the thought floating in some people's heads, maybe to improve upon it or, hell, even argue it.

One thing I'd like to say is that they are 'missing', not presumed dead. The difference being that missing still allows them to be alive; perhaps plotting evil deeds on a remote island (with their own sun queen protecting them) :D

Going back to money though, why is there any need, plot wise, to remove her money? Simply put, her money wouldn't have changed a thing about the Endurance expedition, Lara would have still told them where to go, they still would have crashed/sank and everything that happened on the island would still be the same. It doesn't make sense (to me) that poor Lara would be anymore relatable or better than rich Lara (as Ivana said before). Nothing would have changed, so why not just give her the money in the first place?

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 10:24
I agree, it's rather unnecessary. But it would have been alright with me had she been an ordinary middle class person. It's the sitting on the fence mentality that I think is causing all the trouble.

Tecstar70
15th Feb 2015, 11:15
One thing I'd like to say is that they are 'missing', not presumed dead. The difference being that missing still allows them to be alive; perhaps plotting evil deeds on a remote island (with their own sun queen protecting them) :D

Going back to money though, why is there any need, plot wise, to remove her money? Simply put, her money wouldn't have changed a thing about the Endurance expedition, Lara would have still told them where to go, they still would have crashed/sank and everything that happened on the island would still be the same. It doesn't make sense (to me) that poor Lara would be anymore relatable or better than rich Lara (as Ivana said before). Nothing would have changed, so why not just give her the money in the first place?

Because what you are doing is creating a character that already has a sense of self reliance, about making her own way on the world and doing something with her life without necessarily relying on her family wealth. This is the character of Lara Croft. To her money is not important whether or not she has it. She doesn't raid tombs for the money does she? Its not her motivation. Her wealth allows her the privilege of hi-tec equipment, private jets etc eventually but it does not define her personality. That's why in my view that its right that her wealth doesn't come onto it. There are plenty of rich people who want their kids to stand on their own two feet, as well as rich kids wanting to do the same.

You are right, it may not have changed the events on the Endurance expedition, but it would have changed Lara's core personality. Lara has to grow into her wealth. IF her parents are missing/dead then money may not be important. Money doesn't bring the dead back so she may be looking for meaning to her life.

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 11:31
Because what you are doing is creating a character that already has a sense of self reliance, about making her own way on the world and doing something with her life without necessarily relying on her family wealth. This is the character of Lara Croft. To her money is not important whether or not she has it. She doesn't raid tombs for the money does she? Its not her motivation...

But that doesn't explain why she can't have it, you can be rich and still be self-reliant, LAU Lara proves that much. To combine what you and Blacktron said, if the idea is for Lara to build her own wealth, why give her a wealthy background in the first place, and not just say she was born into a poor family? It doesn't make sense :lol:

Tecstar70
15th Feb 2015, 11:49
But that doesn't explain why she can't have it, you can be rich and still be self-reliant, LAU Lara proves that much. To combine what you and Blacktron said, if the idea is for Lara to build her own wealth, why give her a wealthy background in the first place, and not just say she was born into a poor family? It doesn't make sense :lol:

She may not be building her own wealth. That's not what I am saying. She may be choosing not to use her wealth. She wants to experience the world for herself. She is only young. When she is older she knows how she wants to use her wealth and is then lucky to have it, but she see's it as a means to support her "work" rather than something that defines her life.

By her talking the decision to not let her wealth define her she experiences the world on a different level. Money can define who you are and how you behave. She clearly wants more from her life and feels she can get that without her wealth. Don't forget she is still young. As I said when she is older she may have a different perspective on her wealth.

Its kinda like a rock star who has that big hit early on in their career, then get sick of it even though its the very thing that has given them their career. They don't want to be defined by their hit single/album. At first they might get to a point where they never want to sing it again, and don't for several years until eventually they embrace their hit and it doesn't affect them as much because they have had their own career after it. Then they get to enjoy singing the hits because they have had the chance to be who they are as an artist. Paul McCartney springs to mind. When he went out on the road with Wings he didn't sing Beatles stuff. He wanted to define his own career, not just be an ex-Beatle. He wanted to stand on his own merit rather than seen to be propped up by his former success. When he had done that, he started singing Beatles songs again.

Am I making sense? :)

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 11:54
Am I making sense? :)

No :lol:

Yes, but it still doesn't make sense plot wise!

Tecstar70
15th Feb 2015, 11:57
No :lol:

Yes, but it still doesn't make sense plot wise!

Maybe it will eventually..... ;)

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 11:59
Maybe it will eventually..... ;)

Eventually isn't good enough! :lol:

Moving on... Anyone shipping Larnah? :D

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 12:12
Its kinda like a rock star who has that big hit early on in their career, then get sick of it even though its the very thing that has given them their career. They don't want to be defined by their hit single/album. At first they might get to a point where they never want to sing it again, and don't for several years until eventually they embrace their hit and it doesn't affect them as much because they have had their own career after it. Then they get to enjoy singing the hits because they have had the chance to be who they are as an artist. Paul McCartney springs to mind. When he went out on the road with Wings he didn't sing Beatles stuff. He wanted to define his own career, not just be an ex-Beatle. He wanted to stand on his own merit rather than seen to be propped up by his former success. When he had done that, he started singing Beatles songs again.


Interesting that you're bringing up an analogy with an artistic career, because I was just thinking that Lara's motivation may be reflecting that of Rhianna Pratchett herself: wanting to make her own career instead of being viewed as the daughter of a celebrated author who wrote books about a fantasy land on the back of giant space turtle.

But an artistic career and money are not the same. One is a proud achievement, the other is just paper and nickel. At least if you decide just to have it locked away in the bank.

As A Big House brought up: pre-TR9 Lara had plenty of things to be proud of of what she had done with her life and those things were accomplished without money. The money just gave her the opportunity to accomplish them: so that she could go to Bolivia and Peru and all those places right away instead of cleaning dishes for 20 twenty years to pay for travel expenses.

Again: I don't think this has anything to do with character building, it's the result of a clumsy way to reconcile the rich person past with the new relatable person ideal.

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 12:19
Interesting that you're bringing up an analogy with an artistic career, because I was just thinking that Lara's motivation may be reflecting that of Rhianna Pratchett herself: wanting to make her own career instead of being viewed as the daughter of a celebrated author who wrote books about a fantasy land on the back of giant space turtle.

As A Big House brought up: ...

Interesting analogy, it actually makes sense...

And please, call me ABH; everyone does *tips hat* :D

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 12:20
Very well mister ABH :)

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 12:29
Is that a glowstick on her butt?

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 12:31
It's her lightsaber: she's gonna use it to kill the angry wookie :)

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 12:33
It's her lightsaber: she's gonna use it to kill the angry wookie :)

See, now that makes sense plot wise! :D

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 12:35
Hahaha! Quite! :D

Tihocan
15th Feb 2015, 12:50
Is that a glowstick on her butt?

Looks like it. For under $30 you can get moderate to high intensity snaplights that will safely illuminate your surroundings. They can be submerged, wont burn you, etc etc - very useful I'd say.

a_big_house
15th Feb 2015, 12:52
Looks like it. For under $30 you can get moderate to high intensity snaplights that will safely illuminate your surroundings. They can be submerged, wont burn you, etc etc - very useful I'd say.

So we have flares and a glowstick!? Gooooood :D

Rai
15th Feb 2015, 13:47
@Abe, Larnah? Oh wait just as I typed that, I realised...Lara and Jonah? No, I see Jonah as acting like a protective brother.

Just my pennies worth on the wealth issue. I'll try to make it short (ish). Going entirely by the games (as I understand it, the comics written during the Core games era were not considered canon). Core-Lara was born into wealth, her family were aristocrats with titles. LAU Lara was also born into a wealthy aristocratic lifestyle. Core-Lara's parents disinherited Lara and she took to writing her journals to fund her travels. LAU Lara's parents both disappeared and were presumed dead. Amelia when Lara was 9, Richard when Lara was 16. It seems Lara would have inherited her wealth. In Core's timeline then, it seems Lara wrote to fund her trips and didn't rely on her family's wealth. I'm not sure how she came about the mansion, perhaps it's hers or she inherited it.

It seems to me that CD are attempting to keep Lara's family background similar and familiar. Young Lara was born into wealth living in in a manor. The family had servants and Lara is referred to as Lady Croft. Just as before. Others have explained why Lara currently doesn't use her inherited money or the manor house, so I won't repeat what's already been said. So I'll try to explain my own interpretation.

Why give Lara wealth if she's not using it, at least so far: for the Endurance trip at least? Story wise, I think it makes perfect sense. It's tied up in trust funds, she's tying to make her own way in life, carve out her own career and remain independent. I'll add to that something said by Rhianna during an interview/Q&A, she's in denial that her parents are really gone; she doesn't feel she can touch that money as it would be really admitting they're not coming back. I actually think that Core-Lara and Reboot-Lara's circumstances aren't all that different when it comes to wealth. Sure, Core-Lara was disinherited by her parents because she chose a lifestyle they didn't agree with. Pretty rebellious, huh? Re-Lara isn't nearly as rebellious, but she does have that stubborn independent streak. Both could easily live nice cosy wealthy lives without a care in the world. Re-Lara chooses to work for a living to see herself through college. Her archaeology career is meant to take off with the Endurance trip. So far presumably she's still working to fund her trips abroad. As we now know she's taken a job at the British museum.

Is this independent, stubborn, in denial personality shoe-horned in to make her more relate-able? Is the not touched wealth there as a convenient plot device to explain how Lara can now afford to go on adventures without money worries? Only Crystal D can answer this truthfully (or avoid answering it fully). From what I can make out, CD have attempted to keep certain points of her background to keep her familiar: Lara Croft has always been Lady Croft who chooses a lifestyle of travelling and adventuring. Why change that? As I said earlier Core-Lara and Re-Lara make their own money only for different reasons. By the sounds of it though, by the time of Rise, Lara has changed her attitude towards this tied-up wealth a little. I think we can presume a little more maturity goes a long way. We see Core Lara already living in a luxurious house and (presumably) funding her own trips and the alterations to her home; she's already a veteran in her field as seen in TR1 by the fact that Natla has sought her out and Lara is on the cover of a magazine for having 'found' Yetis. Bearing in mind her beginnings: disinherited and rebellious, it's likely at 21 she didn't have much of her own money either, but earned it gradually. Sound familiar?

Oh, we've moved on to flares and glow sticks. Nice. :)

IvanaKC
15th Feb 2015, 15:45
Don'tsayitoutloud...don'tsayitoutloud...don'tsayitoutloud.......

I guess someone had to. Unfortunately.



His arguments do pack quite a punch. I just come here to Getafix of visceral debate.

:lol: That's why I recommend people not to get stuck in argument with him.
He's like always right no matter what. How does he do that?
I know you're reading this, Driber...



Looks like it. For under $30 you can get moderate to high intensity snaplights that will safely illuminate your surroundings. They can be submerged, wont burn you, etc etc - very useful I'd say.

And you can choose dimension, too. Those are really cheap here and I remember my father having a ton of them. He even let me play with them, there wasn't a color I didn't "snap" and use. :D
Now I got an idea of a very trivial thing - they could even animate how Lara is snapping those sticks when we want to use them.

AlexWeiss
15th Feb 2015, 15:54
I thought I had a lot more to say, but it looks like Tecstar handled it well :D

One thing I'd like to say is that they are 'missing', not presumed dead. The difference being that missing still allows them to be alive; perhaps plotting evil deeds on a remote island (with their own sun queen protecting them) :D

It's Tomb Raider, it could be some supernatural explanation that prevents them from coming back ;)

Because what you are doing is creating a character that already has a sense of self reliance, about making her own way on the world and doing something with her life without necessarily relying on her family wealth. This is the character of Lara Croft. To her money is not important whether or not she has it. She doesn't raid tombs for the money does she? Its not her motivation. Her wealth allows her the privilege of hi-tec equipment, private jets etc eventually but it does not define her personality. That's why in my view that its right that her wealth doesn't come onto it. There are plenty of rich people who want their kids to stand on their own two feet, as well as rich kids wanting to do the same.

You are right, it may not have changed the events on the Endurance expedition, but it would have changed Lara's core personality. Lara has to grow into her wealth. IF her parents are missing/dead then money may not be important. Money doesn't bring the dead back so she may be looking for meaning to her life.
:thumbsup: This.


Its kinda like a rock star who has that big hit early on in their career, then get sick of it even though its the very thing that has given them their career. They don't want to be defined by their hit single/album. At first they might get to a point where they never want to sing it again, and don't for several years until eventually they embrace their hit and it doesn't affect them as much because they have had their own career after it. Then they get to enjoy singing the hits because they have had the chance to be who they are as an artist. Paul McCartney springs to mind. When he went out on the road with Wings he didn't sing Beatles stuff. He wanted to define his own career, not just be an ex-Beatle. He wanted to stand on his own merit rather than seen to be propped up by his former success. When he had done that, he started singing Beatles songs again.
A number of artists came to mind, good analogy


Moving on... Anyone shipping Larnah? :D
Oh my god that name sounds like some kind of fungus :lol:

Interesting that you're bringing up an analogy with an artistic career, because I was just thinking that Lara's motivation may be reflecting that of Rhianna Pratchett herself: wanting to make her own career instead of being viewed as the daughter of a celebrated author who wrote books about a fantasy land on the back of giant space turtle.
I do believe she said that she's projected a bit of herself into Lara in the past, specifically in places like, "I don't think I'm that kind of Croft."

But an artistic career and money are not the same. One is a proud achievement, the other is just paper and nickel. At least if you decide just to have it locked away in the bank.
Is it not similar, though? In both circumstances you're recognised to have something that you in fact don't. Creativity and 'paper and nickel' are indeed achievements, just someone else's. In both circumstances, you don't want that one successful thing about another person define your future success. Everyone builds expectations for you in both circumstances, and in a way, putting her money into the bank was Rhianna's metaphor for choosing not to let her father's career hold her down anymore and instead choose to prove to the world that she could make it on her own without her father's success. Just as Lara is doing.



It's her lightsaber: she's gonna use it to kill the angry wookie :)
:lol:

as I understand it, the comics written during the Core games era were not considered canon.
Correct, but game manuals said similar if I recall correctly, don't quite quote me on that, though. Lost them years ago...


I'll add to that something said by Rhianna during an interview/Q&A, she's in denial that her parents are really gone; she doesn't feel she can touch that money as it would be really admitting they're not coming back. I actually think that Core-Lara and Reboot-Lara's circumstances aren't all that different when it comes to wealth. Sure, Core-Lara was disinherited by her parents because she chose a lifestyle they didn't agree with. Pretty rebellious, huh? Re-Lara isn't nearly as rebellious, but she does have that stubborn independent streak. Both could easily live nice cosy wealthy lives without a care in the world. Re-Lara chooses to work for a living to see herself through college. Her archaeology career is meant to take off with the Endurance trip. So far presumably she's still working to fund her trips abroad. As we now know she's taken a job at the British museum.

[...] Lara Croft has always been Lady Croft who chooses a lifestyle of travelling and adventuring. Why change that? As I said earlier Core-Lara and Re-Lara make their own money only for different reasons. By the sounds of it though, by the time of Rise, Lara has changed her attitude towards this tied-up wealth a little. I think we can presume a little more maturity goes a long way. We see Core Lara already living in a luxurious house and (presumably) funding her own trips and the alterations to her home; she's already a veteran in her field as seen in TR1 by the fact that Natla has sought her out and Lara is on the cover of a magazine for having 'found' Yetis. Bearing in mind her beginnings: disinherited and rebellious, it's likely at 21 she didn't have much of her own money either, but earned it gradually. Sound familiar?
Perfect :D

Blacktron
15th Feb 2015, 16:17
Is it not similar, though? In both circumstances you're recognised to have something that you in fact don't. Creativity and 'paper and nickel' are indeed achievements, just someone else's. In both circumstances, you don't want that one successful thing about another person define your future success.
Money never defined Lara and Tomb Raider is not about making it. It was simply a storytelling tool to allow her to do what she did. If the story is that Lara is in this position were she has to live up to her parents the obvious thing to do would be that she wants to carve out her own tomb raiding career the way her dad it. Money should have nothing to do with that tale. I mean, it's a game about Lara Croft, for Christ sake, not about the son of Bill Gates. Did her dad make a fortune washing dishes and made a tomb raiding career? As far as I know he inherited it just as well.



Everyone builds expectations for you in both circumstances, and in a way, putting her money into the bank was Rhianna's metaphor for choosing not to let her father's career hold her down anymore and instead choose to prove to the world that she could make it on her own without her father's success. Just as Lara is doing.
Again, I don't believe that this character trait was an attempt to give her personality: I believe it was the (unfortunate) result of combining the new relatability with the rich person history. A piece of utilitarian storytelling. I believe you're thinking of it as a well thought out, delibirate piece of character development, but I don't think there's any of that in it.

Gitb97
15th Feb 2015, 17:45
Is that a glowstick on her butt?


Jesus, I read that as in her butt �� oops

Driber
15th Feb 2015, 17:52
Holy crap this thread is going a mile a minute it seems.

Big multi-quote post incoming :D


Hah, no, this time it was me :D

TL;DR not cool.

I thought about it afterwards and felt that it was "one of things" that perhaps advocates such as Rhianna and Megan would feel like it was a slap in the face, in essence trivialising the issue.
I do think rape (along with religion based terrorism, child abuse) are among the worst acts of humankind. But I can still joke about it - I joke about everything - but in the presence of the appropriate people. Not saying I hang out with rape advocates, but persons that are generally unaffected. I'm desensitised, but I don't want to be insensitive.

It wasn't until you put the words "rape joke" there that it dawned on me that's what it was. My personal experience is indirect, but still significant. I often uses jokes as to demean things, which often gets me into trouble :rolleyes:
I also have a disconnect between humour and reality, to which either side has a different view and response.


Phew, glad I remembered it correctly this time. My face was starting to look like an omelet :D

Thanks for elaborating, Ti. Appreciate the insight.

FWIW, I am an advocate but did not think your joke was a "slap in the face" or "trivializing the issue". I generally recognize jokes for what they are - jokes. But of course context matters.

I'm curious why you specifically mention religion based terrorism in that list of examples. How is that inherently worse than for example politically based terrorism according to you?


Don't you dare bring perspective into this ridiculous debate.

:D


Personally I think it's perceived as having inadvertently created a stereotype, pigeonhole, whatever that perhaps caused creators to fear developing something outside the "norm" of a hot, ass-kicking heroine. But that's the world of entertainment for you.

Rhianna's most notable works include Lara, Nariko and Faith. All 3 are hot, ass-kicking heroines. So by your own argument that means that Rhianna is afraid? :p

No, I don't believe there's this fear lurking over game devs of creating anything other than hot, ass-kicking heroines. What's there to fear?


This is what Rhianna said in the crystal podcast ( no. 15 ) -

"So she technically has access to that money, but she doesn’t want to touch it for a number of reasons. For one, she very much wants to stand on her own two feet. She’s very… I don’t know about stubborn, but she wants to make her own way in the world on her own terms. She puts herself through university. She works several jobs in order to do so, one of which she mentions in the game. She talks about a late shift at the Nine Bells. She doesn’t use her family’s money to do that. She does it herself. Also, because her parents are missing, she doesn’t want to touch that money, because it would sort of be tantamount to admitting that they’re really gone, that they’re not going to come back. We explore this a bit more in the promotional comics. She actually ties up that wealth in trusts and all kinds of things so she can’t touch it, even if she wanted to, at this particular moment in the game. That’s not to say she won’t change her mind about it. But where she is now, we didn’t want that to be a factor. I wanted her to feel about it differently. I wanted her to feel something that I think modern audiences would accept a little bit more than the sort of throwing-money-all-over-the-place, gadgets-up-the-yin-yang, fancy this, fancy that… I think that’s hard to relate to, and a little bit crass in this day and age. She might get there one day, but this is how Lara feels at 21."


Does it have to be said every single time that we have to be able to relate to Lara? It started to be annoying, not everyone wants to relate to her and moreover no one really can. I was hoping exactly to see some fancy (usually expensive) gadgets, not too many improvised ones. Such a shame they are stripping away the factor which made me play TR (and games in general) in the first place - stuff I can't do, see or have in real life and character which definitely cannot exist real world. :hmm:

Ivana, I know how you feel, BUT let me quote parts of chocolate's post for emphasis:

That’s not to say she won’t change her mind about it.

She might get there one day

This right here implies a scenario where Lara in future games will once again have access to her wealth and high tech gadgets :)


His arguments do pack quite a punch. I just come here to Getafix of visceral debate.

Are you saying that our debates are non-intellectual? :p


Because she literally said it. Right there. In the interview.

I personally don’t have an issue with female characters being sexy. However, in the past the industry has suffered from sexy merely being used as a solo personality trait. Likewise, the definition of what constitutes sexy has been very narrow and frequently meant overly sexualized, which was off-putting for some. We definitely need more diversity in this area and to create more characters who’re sexy because they’re smart, funny, thoughtful, loyal, textured and flawed people, on top of whatever they may look like. I still think Lara’s sexy. She’s beautiful, fierce, empathetic, determined and smart – which arguably she was before. But now she’s just not sexualized. I think that decision has definitely helped us reach new audiences.

I know what she claims in the article, but I also know that it's a contradiction to some other things she has said. She has been quite negative about sexuality regarding media that do have interesting characters. For example she was critical of T&A in Games of Thrones. And there's no way anyone is seriously going to argue that GoT is like a Playboy show. In another example she was being negative about all body armour that emphasize femininity, thus shaming all games that include this, including those that have well developed characters inside said armour.


I didn't say it, Rhianna did. Though I do agree with her, I don't feel like arguing that point at the moment.

Oh I didn't mean that you (i.e. AlexWeiss) should show me proof, heh. I was talking in a more general sense to anyone who makes those unsubstantial claims.

But it's ironic that you specifically voice agreement right now and instantly follow it with "I don't feel like arguing that point", which was exactly my point to begin with - people making assertions about supposed problems in the industry with female characters but not really being willing to provide proof / debate it :whistle:


I don't believe for a second that this 'has money but doesn't want to spend it' character trait was created with the intent to let her have that specific personality trait.

But who says you have to believe that? The devs themselves are not even being secretive about it - read chocolate's post again; they even outright say they did it in the name of "relatability". So who exactly are you arguing against?


It's way too shoehorned for that.

Nah, not shoehorning.


No, I believe the intent was to let her have a more relatable personality

Right, and so do the devs. So again, who are you arguing against?


It's the typical compromising, sitting on the fence, wanting best of both worlds, mentality of Crystal Dynamics.

A game studio weighing their options and making a compromise in the interest of their audience?! Someone light the stake!


And the 'has money but doesn't want to spend it' trait was created to connect those two conflicting premises. And nobody seemed to care about the illogicalities, implausibilities and plotholes it created. Mental lazyness I call it.

Your solution wasn't any better.


And that is the result what you get when you're creating characters from the outside: to make character traits that are meant to justify pre-established premises and settings. Instead of writing a character from the inside: were pre-established character traits shape the story.

Probably all story-driven videogames have "backwards" designing. Generally, a story / setting is constructed first, and only then plotlines are made up to connect the dots of how a character got into a particular situation / location. So that's not really an argument.


One thing I'd like to say is that they are 'missing', not presumed dead. The difference being that missing still allows them to be alive

So does presumed dead :p


Going back to money though, why is there any need, plot wise, to remove her money? Simply put, her money wouldn't have changed a thing about the Endurance expedition, Lara would have still told them where to go, they still would have crashed/sank and everything that happened on the island would still be the same. It doesn't make sense (to me) that poor Lara would be anymore relatable or better than rich Lara (as Ivana said before). Nothing would have changed, so why not just give her the money in the first place?

Good point.


But it would have been alright with me had she been an ordinary middle class person.

So why would it NOT have been alright with you had she continued to be the wealthy woman, throwing money around the place, high tech gadgets up the wazoo?


It's the sitting on the fence mentality that I think is causing all the trouble.

What trouble?

You're literally the second person I've seen make a big fuss out of this since the game was released nearly 2 whole years ago.


But that doesn't explain why she can't have it, you can be rich and still be self-reliant, LAU Lara proves that much. To combine what you and Blacktron said, if the idea is for Lara to build her own wealth, why give her a wealthy background in the first place, and not just say she was born into a poor family? It doesn't make sense :vlol:

It does. 1996.


Yes, but it still doesn't make sense plot wise!

Sure it does, your argument is just flimsy. It's akin to saying: "Lara doesn't sound as British as she did before, why not just make her American and get it over with!"

She's not American. She's not from a poor family.


Interesting that you're bringing up an analogy with an artistic career, because I was just thinking that Lara's motivation may be reflecting that of Rhianna Pratchett herself: wanting to make her own career instead of being viewed as the daughter of a celebrated author who wrote books about a fantasy land on the back of giant space turtle.

But an artistic career and money are not the same. One is a proud achievement, the other is just paper and nickel. At least if you decide just to have it locked away in the bank.

But Lara is not feeling pride in the money she has locked up in a bank, she is feeling pride from the money she earned herself by means of hard work. That's what the devs are referring to when they say that Lara wants to "stand on her own feet". It's not about simply seeing the number of virtual bucks in her bank account grow.


As A Big House brought up: pre-TR9 Lara had plenty of things to be proud of of what she had done with her life and those things were accomplished without money.

Without money? No they weren't.


The money just gave her the opportunity to accomplish them: so that she could go to Bolivia and Peru and all those places right away instead of cleaning dishes for 20 twenty years to pay for travel expenses.

Which is exactly what she would likely be doing if she was born in a poor family :whistle:


Again: I don't think this has anything to do with character building, it's the result of a clumsy way to reconcile the rich person past with the new relatable person ideal.

It has everything to do with character building. If it wasn't any wish/need to build Lara's character into a more fleshed-out person, the devs wouldn't have bothered with the change in the first place.

You can call it clumsy (and I disagree) but you can't claim that is has nothing to do with character building.


Looks like it. For under $30 you can get moderate to high intensity snaplights that will safely illuminate your surroundings. They can be submerged, wont burn you, etc etc - very useful I'd say.


And you can choose dimension, too. Those are really cheap here and I remember my father having a ton of them. He even let me play with them, there wasn't a color I didn't "snap" and use. :D
Now I got an idea of a very trivial thing - they could even animate how Lara is snapping those sticks when we want to use them.

Can anyone perhaps post some YT videos of these things? Would be interesting to get an idea of them :)


:vlol: That's why I recommend people not to get stuck in argument with him.
He's like always right no matter what. How does he do that?
I know you're reading this, Driber...


:D


Money never defined Lara and Tomb Raider is not about making it. It was simply a storytelling tool to allow her to do what she did. If the story is that Lara is in this position were she has to live up to her parents the obvious thing to do would be that she wants to carve out her own tomb raiding career the way her dad it. Money should have nothing to do with that tale. I mean, it's a game about Lara Croft, for Christ sake, not about the son of Bill Gates. Did her dad make a fortune washing dishes and made a tomb raiding career? As far as I know he inherited it just as well.

I'm starting to get a sense you have a problem with wealth, or wealthy people even...


Again, I don't believe that this character trait was an attempt to give her personality

For someone who claims to not be interested in 'discussing things until pigs fly' you sure are awfully repetitive in reasserting your position over and over.


I believe it was the (unfortunate) result of combining the new relatability with the rich person history

You say that if as being rich somehow inherently makes a person not relatable.


I believe you're thinking of it as a well thought out, delibirate piece of character development, but I don't think there's any of that in it.

That's probably a bit of a strawman. I don't think anyone here is under the impression that TR9's story is a piece of Shakespearian literature. It just... works. It does the job. It makes sense.

AlexWeiss
15th Feb 2015, 18:25
Oh I didn't mean that you (i.e. AlexWeiss) should show me proof, heh. I was talking in a more general sense to anyone who makes those claims.
Ah, okay :)

it's ironic that you specifically voice agreement right now and instantly follow it with "I don't feel like arguing that point", which was exactly my point to begin with - people making assertions about supposed problems in the industry with female characters but not being willing to really debate it :whistle:
It's certainly a difficult topic to debate about and everyone has their own opinions about it. It's difficult to argue a specific point like that without sounding like an episode of Fem Frequency, which for me is specifically is why I avoid talking about it on the internet unless I truly feel it needs to be spoken about.

In my opinion, Rhianna hit the nail on the head when she said, "the definition of what constitutes sexy has been very narrow and frequently meant overly sexualized," because what I may see as over sexualized, another could argue it is not, it's just sexy and that's not a bad thing. That's why I don't like to debate it, there would be a lot of research, evidence, and work put into a point which will most likely be easily invalidated because of personal opinion. Don't get me wrong, that's basically what a debate is afterall, providing evidence which will then be argued, but I just don't think that particular subject is always worth fighting.

Driber
15th Feb 2015, 18:42
It's certainly a difficult topic to debate about and everyone has their own opinions about it. It's difficult to argue a specific point like that without sounding like an episode of Fem Frequency, which for me is specifically is why I avoid talking about it on the internet unless I truly feel it needs to be spoken about.

Fair enough :)

Though, meanwhile, the femfreqs out there are leading the narratives in the media with lies, manipulation, toxic negativity and cheap shaming tactics, while the more down-to-earth discussions stay in the shadow corners of the web.


In my opinion, Rhianna hit the nail on the head when she said, "the definition of what constitutes sexy has been very narrow and frequently meant overly sexualized," because what I may see as over sexualized, another could argue it is not, it's just sexy and that's not a bad thing.

Nor is sexualized an inherently bad thing.


That's why I don't like to debate it, there would be a lot of research, evidence, and work put into a point which will most likely be easily invalidated because of personal opinion. Don't get me wrong, that's basically what a debate is afterall, providing evidence which will then be argued, but I just don't think that particular subject is always worth fighting.

Well if you want to make general assertions about the industry as a whole or about real life effects, etc, then sure, it would take research and evidence (something femfreq indeed lacks big time) but nothing should be stopping you discussing specific games, right? :)

IvanaKC
15th Feb 2015, 22:26
Ivana, I know how you feel, BUT let me quote parts of chocolate's post for emphasis:

That’s not to say she won’t change her mind about it.

She might get there one day

This right here implies a scenario where Lara in future games will once again have access to her wealth and high tech gadgets :)




Oh, I would bet she would eventually become close to old Lara. However, why constantly making her relatable when it's clear she isn't?


Here's the video of a snap light:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G87GJlejAEg

I'd even break them on several parts just to be sure all the liquid glows.

Tihocan
15th Feb 2015, 22:48
I'm curious why you specifically mention religion based terrorism in that list of examples. How is that inherently worse than for example politically based terrorism according to you?

This is a really difficult one to answer, seeing as I only feel that way. To me, religion is a personal choice, your own faith and belief, and using that as a kickstand to cause fear and violence is abhorrent. But, the more I read about the topic, I can't really justify why that's worse than, say, using violence and fear to coerce your entire country to believe you're a man-god.


Rhianna's most notable works include Lara, Nariko and Faith. All 3 are hot, ass-kicking heroines. So by your own argument that means that Rhianna is afraid? :p

No, I don't believe there's this fear lurking over game devs of creating anything other than hot, ass-kicking heroines. What's there to fear?

I'm only throwing a theory out there, I should be clear. Rhianna is definitely not afraid - Lara is a hot asskickin' young lady, but she's also flawed - mentally scarred, afraid, not confident in herself, etc - which can be often hard for the average joe to accept. That therein lies the fear that, once put forth, the offering of this character that isn't damn near perfect will not be accepted.

People are generally "obviously shallow" - they love Arnie as Dutch and Stallone as Rambo and all those kinds of warrior types that seem impervious to damage. But the one that has always stuck in mind in that genre is John McClane: tough, capable, violent - but also very flawed in the way he handles his life etc.

It's a funny thing, though. Without evidence to really support myself, I feel that's what creators do, even if the person taking it on doesn't realise it. Superman has his kryptonite, Spiderman has his own inner fears, etc...

Again, this is all just conjecture, how I see the world.

In contrast to a few others on here, I love the fact that Lara can't / won't touch her parents money. It means that she's wholly independent, but too afraid to commit to the idea she'll never see her parents again.
I say it's inverse to the "mentally lazy" writing - which to me would be "Lara can do anything she wants because her parents were rich and now they're dead and won't complain if she spends all their money on raiding people's burial chambers". Perhaps, at some point, we resolve the story of her parents and she properly inherits Croft Manor.

Or, inverse to my own argument, maybe she just doesn't care that much. Her dad didn't really have time for her anyway.

Gitb97
16th Feb 2015, 14:11
I think this is where Rhianna has gone right to be honest, she's given Lara reason. When I think of characters with PTSD I think of Ciel Phantomhive from the Black Butler series (Also another one of my favourite characters), who is *similar* to Lara in a way because he's also wealthy but he uses his wealth for his own advantages. Lara on the other hand (so far as i'm aware) has rejected and refused to use her wealth, she suffers PTSD and wants to do thinks like a normal person. So that's where Rhianna went right, she made Lara "normal" - I think that's the right choice because Lara becomes far from normal as she gets older - we've already played as that Lara. So seeing someone who is called Lady Croft originally refuse her money is quite the story - that said, has it ever been confirmed that the money Lara uses in LAU from her parents? Or is it money she made on her own?
Also - I used to be the "shallow" type and love a game with someone who is cold hearted and somehow selfish like Ruby Malone from Wet - but now I like the story telling personality aspect of games, i'm starting to like the way Rhianna does things, originally I didn't.

Tihocan
16th Feb 2015, 14:24
Also - I used to be the "shallow" type...

Lol, sorry how that came out - it was meant in the way that people (myself very much included) often like the non-thinking route, where slapstick comedy and action movies have greatly triumphed. Not "we as a species have no substance" :D

When it comes to making us think or feel, we suddenly become greatly critical, I think.

Tecstar70
16th Feb 2015, 14:24
I think this is where Rhianna has gone right to be honest, she's given Lara reason. When I think of characters with PTSD I think of Ciel Phantomhive from the Black Butler series (Also another one of my favourite characters), who is *similar* to Lara in a way because he's also wealthy but he uses his wealth for his own advantages. Lara on the other hand (so far as i'm aware) has rejected and refused to use her wealth, she suffers PTSD and wants to do thinks like a normal person. So that's where Rhianna went right, she made Lara "normal" - I think that's the right choice because Lara becomes far from normal as she gets older - we've already played as that Lara. So seeing someone who is called Lady Croft originally refuse her money is quite the story - that said, has it ever been confirmed that the money Lara uses in LAU from her parents? Or is it money she made on her own?
Also - I used to be the "shallow" type and love a game with someone who is cold hearted and somehow selfish like Ruby Malone from Wet - but now I like the story telling personality aspect of games, i'm starting to like the way Rhianna does things, originally I didn't.

Wow - you are the only other person I have seen mention Wet! Loved that game, expecially the soundtrack!

F5qdLqvVtZw

WinterSoldierLTE
16th Feb 2015, 17:39
Am I the only one who read the article and was let down by there being no mention of it being a timed exclusive? I wasn't expecting them (GI) to hound CD about it, but it was just barely mentioned as being on 360, let alone eventually possibly moving to other systems. They could've at least thrown in a "CD refused to comment about it" if they even asked about it. I dunno, I guess since it's such a big issue for the TR fan community and a new move for TR I just expected at least a "We asked, but they couldn't answer" or something. Poor journalism.

Bridgetkfisher
16th Feb 2015, 17:51
Russian wilderness? really? well thats boring. Thats not exotic at all, could wander into a park and see wilderness...
ugh... looks like cabelas big game hunter with a girl as the main character.

would like to see lara visting pyramids, atlantis, or a cloud city, this is a video game, its not bound by physics or reality. Lara could literally go anywhere and instead its another game in regular environments... boooooring.... changes channel... /interest

AlexWeiss
16th Feb 2015, 18:36
The Xbox Magazine article makes me quite excited to see the Russian wilderness. Do remember Tomb Raider has always been grounded in reality whilst Lara brings supernatural myth to life. Personally, I find avalanches, ice caves with cool physics, environmental puzzles, and exploration quite fun. Russia is a massive place, don't underestimate its environment. And since it's been released, I can share this photo (http://i.imgur.com/SjsPclg.jpg) with you that proves it's not all Russian wilderness. It's already been confirmed she'll be globe trotting between London and various other parts of the world.

Plus, in my opinion we've seen too many pyramids in Tomb Raider and Kitezh is basically the Russian incarnation of Atlantis, except it sunk as their people knelt in prayer while being invaded by Mongolians.

@WinterSoldier I honestly didn't really mind. I'm enjoying the juicy details of the game between GI and XOM more than I do hearing about the Xbone... I doubt they'll comment on it until after the release of the game, honestly, but even though I'm a PS4 owner I'm just going to try and ignore the exclusivity and just build up some hype :/

EDIT: I realise I accidentally ignored Driber, whoops!

Nor is sexualized an inherently bad thing.
Oh, no, not at all. I just think it gets out of hand sometimes, I think there's a well defined line between looking like someone dressed themself to look sexy or comfortable in their skin and looking like some game developer dressed them purely to look that way for attention. Take all those MMO advertisements you used to see on the sides of webpages that they'd use as clickbate (if I can remember one in particular, I'll edit the title in, but it's been a while since I've gotten adblock so I don't even know if it's still being advertised two years later).


Well if you want to make general assertions about the industry as a whole or about real life effects, etc, then sure, it would take research and evidence (something femfreq indeed lacks big time) but nothing should be stopping you discussing specific games, right? :)
True, and perhaps one day I will :)

Bridgetkfisher
16th Feb 2015, 18:46
The Xbox Magazine article makes me quite excited to see the Russian wilderness. Do remember Tomb Raider has always been grounded in reality whilst Lara brings supernatural myth to life. Personally, I find avalanches, ice caves with cool physics, environmental puzzles, and exploration quite fun. Russia is a massive place, don't underestimate its environment. And since it's been released, I can share this photo (http://i.imgur.com/SjsPclg.jpg) with you that proves it's not all Russian wilderness. It's already been confirmed she'll be globe trotting between London and various other parts of the world.

Plus, in my opinion we've seen too many pyramids in Tomb Raider and Kitezh is basically the Russian incarnation of Atlantis, except it sunk as their people knelt in prayer while being invaded by Mongolians.

@WinterSoldier I honestly didn't really mind. I'm enjoying the juicy details of the game between GI and XOM more than I do hearing about the Xbone... I doubt they'll comment on it until after the release of the game, honestly, but even though I'm a PS4 owner I'm just going to try and ignore the exclusivity and just build up some hype :/

meh... if 99% of the game is boring environments like just the woods, or wilderness and nothing exotic or creative except 1% of the time, I'll pass. In todays gaming world there are too many exciting games to settle for something so ordinary and plain. Id rather just play that 1% and delete the other 99% of boring norminess. TR isnt the only game to use filler content, alot of games do that today, just use filler, instead they should be more creative instead of so meh. I find no way to be interested in game that looks like a clone of Cabelas big game hunter. its lack of tomb raiding displeases me, then again if their one room puzzles thats also kinda lame, rather just buy a real puzzle game or HOJ game and play that... Doesnt matter to me, not my game, if the franchise collapses it just means it goes on sale which means we may yet see a return to our adventuring tomb raider who raids tombs dual wielding style with class! Going to comicons or anything today there are TONS of classic tomb raider cosplayers even at halloween, didnt see a sinlge modern lara cosplayer at any of the events I attended, so sad since with her weak frail persona a duo costume of her and freud would be sheenius!

Driber
16th Feb 2015, 18:57
Oh, I would bet she would eventually become close to old Lara. However, why constantly making her relatable when it's clear she isn't?

Point taken.


Here's the video of a snap light:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G87GJlejAEg

I'd even break them on several parts just to be sure all the liquid glows.

Thanks. Looks neat :)


This is a really difficult one to answer, seeing as I only feel that way. To me, religion is a personal choice, your own faith and belief, and using that as a kickstand to cause fear and violence is abhorrent. But, the more I read about the topic, I can't really justify why that's worse than, say, using violence and fear to coerce your entire country to believe you're a man-god.

True.

And adding to that, religion is commonly not a personal choice, but involuntary indoctrination.


I'm only throwing a theory out there, I should be clear. Rhianna is definitely not afraid - Lara is a hot asskickin' young lady, but she's also flawed - mentally scarred, afraid, not confident in herself, etc - which can be often hard for the average joe to accept. That therein lies the fear that, once put forth, the offering of this character that isn't damn near perfect will not be accepted.

People are generally "obviously shallow" - they love Arnie as Dutch and Stallone as Rambo and all those kinds of warrior types that seem impervious to damage. But the one that has always stuck in mind in that genre is John McClane: tough, capable, violent - but also very flawed in the way he handles his life etc.

It's a funny thing, though. Without evidence to really support myself, I feel that's what creators do, even if the person taking it on doesn't realise it. Superman has his kryptonite, Spiderman has his own inner fears, etc...

Again, this is all just conjecture, how I see the world.

Funny you use Rambo as an example of a supposed "impervious action hero". In the film he suffers from PTSD and has difficulty adjusting to normal life. Sounds similar to anyone we've been discussing here recently...? :p :D

So...

1) The writers of TR weren't afraid to give her imperfections (including pre-reboot!) - mentally scarred, afraid, not confident in herself.
2) The writers of Superman weren't afraid to give him imperfections - kryptonite.
3) The writers of Rambo weren't afraid to give him imperfections - PTSD.

...and adding a few examples myself...

4) The writers of Batman weren't afraid to give him imperfections - makes bad decisions due to death of parents trauma.
5) The writers of Spiderman weren't afraid to give him imperfections - the common cold makes him weak.
6) The writers of X-Men weren't afraid to give them imperfections - Cyclops' dangerous optic blast; Rogue's powers makes her unable to ever touch her loved ones

I could go on.

So it really doesn't look like creators of popular fictional characters are all that fearful of giving them weaknesses. In fact, fans mostly seem to appreciate and embrace the fact that their heros are not perfect, as it makes them a whole lot more interesting.

I wouldn't let a small (but vocal) group of haters posting stuff like "omg Lara needs therapy now? that makes her so weak, lolololol. u suck, crystal!" be indicative of wide-spread resistance within the TR fandom as a whole, heh.


In contrast to a few others on here, I love the fact that Lara can't / won't touch her parents money. It means that she's wholly independent, but too afraid to commit to the idea she'll never see her parents again.
I say it's inverse to the "mentally lazy" writing - which to me would be "Lara can do anything she wants because her parents were rich and now they're dead and won't complain if she spends all their money on raiding people's burial chambers".

Excellent point :thumb:

TheArcaneHuntress
16th Feb 2015, 20:24
New update on the Puzzles of Rise of The Tomb Raider http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/16/the-puzzles-and-tombs-of-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx? (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/16/the-puzzles-and-tombs-of-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage)

Tecstar70
16th Feb 2015, 20:53
New update on the Puzzles of Rise of The Tomb Raider http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/16/the-puzzles-and-tombs-of-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx? (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/16/the-puzzles-and-tombs-of-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage)

All sounds very promising! CD are listening despite what the naysayers think!

Blacktron
16th Feb 2015, 20:58
Sounds good. Though I think the number of puzzles and puzzle tombs was alright in TR9 the smallness and easyness of the puzzle tombs I think were the only objective flaws of that game. If you're gonna have these optional sidequests you should use that to cater to the hardcore players; if the gameplay is just as casual as the rest of the game there's no point in making it a sidequest. And making hard puzzles a sidequest is a great way to put in some real puzzle challenges without the danger that the entire game comes an abrupt halt if a player can't solve it initially. A missed opportunity in TR9 if you ask me, but it's good to hear they're making up for it now.

Treeble
16th Feb 2015, 21:11
Wow - you are the only other person I have seen mention Wet! Loved that game, expecially the soundtrack!

F5qdLqvVtZwAgree on both accounts! Took me a while to master the gameplay but it was so very satisfying to pull off acrobatic killchains. It was also one of the first games I played on the PS3. /offtopic

Tecstar70
16th Feb 2015, 21:16
Agree on both accounts! Took me a while to master the gameplay but it was so very satisfying to pull off acrobatic killchains. It was also one of the first games I played on the PS3. /offtopic

Sliding on your knees while rotating your upper body taking enemies out with dual hand guns - very satisfying!!

AlexWeiss
16th Feb 2015, 21:20
its lack of tomb raiding displeases me, then again if their one room puzzles thats also kinda lame
How do you know ROTTR has a lack of tombs? So far they've advertised that there's actually going to be tomb raiding in this game. I know this is a thread about the GI coverage and I keep bringing up XOM, but I'm going to quote them again anyway:

For a game called Tomb Raider, tombs were conspicuously absent. Instead of the ancient machinery of the old, we found self-contained puzzle chambers filled with modern-day contraptions. Tombs are largely absent from our Rise of the Tomb Raider presentation, too – "they are too big to dip a tow into,"we're told – though they aren't far from Hughes' mind. Although enthusiastic about all his new ideas, it's the promised return of true raiding that lights the fire in his eyes[...]

We catch a glimpse of catacombs sprawling over multiple floors. A waterlogged shrine with lakes of shimmering green murk that will no doubt test Lara's diving ability. There's an intriguing Hellenic-looking number, with verdant greenery hanging from majestic pillars. None of this, it should be noted, looks native to Siberia.
Quite honestly, I'm feeling more hope than I did with 2013 reading the new articles; a game doesn't need to have some fantasy environment for it to be amazing; it can be beautifully captivating while introducing new and interesting features regardless of location.

New update on the Puzzles of Rise of The Tomb Raider http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/16/the-puzzles-and-tombs-of-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx? (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/16/the-puzzles-and-tombs-of-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage)
I'm very happy that it sounds like they've listened a lot to the feedback over the past couple of years, and the fact that they're making comparisons with the original games raises even more hope.

Bridgetkfisher
16th Feb 2015, 21:22
All sounds very promising! CD are listening despite what the naysayers think!

glad their adding puzzles again, kinda odd they left them out. Might be why people doubt the existence of any puzzle solving since the reboot removed tombs pretty much, people would come around again if the game revolved around tomb raiding not relegating it as some trivial side quest thats optional. Glad he seems excited, hope Noah the creative person doesnt get frustrated and just give up because its difficult to make puzzles, which is what we love to play because that is what makes them fun! Good luck Noah!

I hope the tombs arent all junk yards like the last game, they looked literally like garbage, full of trash with nothing fantastic or exotic about them, so even in the last game investigating piles of trash wasnt very interesting and didnt feel much like a tomb at all. In TR2013 most of the tombs looks like garbage dumps or the houses of some hoarder, made it feel more like Trash Raider than Tomb Raider... :D

Tecstar70
16th Feb 2015, 21:29
glad their adding puzzles again, kinda odd they left them out. Might be why people doubt the existence of any puzzle solving since the reboot removed tombs pretty much, people would come around again if the game revolved around tomb raiding not relegating it as some trivial side quest thats optional. Glad he seems excited, hope Noah the creative person doesnt get frustrated and just give up because its difficult to make puzzles, which is what we love to play because that is what makes them fun! Good luck Noah!

I hope the tombs arent all junk yards like the last game, they looked literally like garbage, full of trash with nothing fantastic or exotic about them, so even in the last game investigating piles of trash wasnt very interesting and didnt feel much like a tomb at all. In TR2013 most of the tombs looks like garbage dumps or the houses of some hoarder, made it feel more like Trash Raider than Tomb Raider... :D

There were a certain amount of puzzles and problem solving, but not in the traditional TR sense. Traversing and negotiating the terrain at times required some thought. It could be argued that actually the whole island of Yamatai was itself a Tomb, but yes it will be interesting to see how they step it up for the second outing of reboot Lara.

Rhi_Pratchett
16th Feb 2015, 21:40
Just wanted to point out that personally I don't agree with Anita about Bayonetta. Yes, she is both sexy and sexualised, but she really owns it and it's part of a greater textured character, which I guess is why she has so many female fans. And yes, there are a lot of T&As in Game of Thrones, however there's also wonderful, textured characterization as well, so I don't have an issue with the show.

Rhi

Tihocan
16th Feb 2015, 22:03
Noah probably has done more for my excitement of ROTTR than every other media combined.

I mean, just look at his face when he's talking!

Gitb97
16th Feb 2015, 22:58
Wow - you are the only other person I have seen mention Wet! Loved that game, expecially the soundtrack!

F5qdLqvVtZw

Wet was fantastic o.o I love how it didn't take itself too seriously, the whole feel of that game was awesome. The soundtrack really gets you pumped when you're playing, really gets you into it. :rasp:


Lol, sorry how that came out - it was meant in the way that people (myself very much included) often like the non-thinking route, where slapstick comedy and action movies have greatly triumphed. Not "we as a species have no substance" :D

When it comes to making us think or feel, we suddenly become greatly critical, I think.

I took no offense so don't worry :) I totally understood your point

TheArcaneHuntress
17th Feb 2015, 00:09
There were a certain amount of puzzles and problem solving, but not in the traditional TR sense. Traversing and negotiating the terrain at times required some thought. It could be argued that actually the whole island of Yamatai was itself a Tomb, but yes it will be interesting to see how they step it up for the second outing of reboot Lara.
Someone had said this on GI, was that you? I thought it was an interesting point

Tecstar70
17th Feb 2015, 00:17
Someone had said this on GI, was that you? I thought it was an interesting point

No, not me. I only post about TR in two places and that's not one of them!

Metalrocks
17th Feb 2015, 03:34
always good to hear from a womans perspective of anitas view. :thumb:

AdeleDazeem
17th Feb 2015, 08:27
So the interview sounded promising. Sounds like the puzzles will be a LAU-TR9 hybrid. I actually liked the puzzles in TR9 because they were based around logic rather than 'missing something'. But I'm glad it will be a little bit of both in Rise. :)

Driber
17th Feb 2015, 14:43
Just wanted to point out that personally I don't agree with Anita about Bayonetta.

:thumb:


Yes, she is both sexy and sexualised, but she really owns it and it's part of a greater textured character, which I guess is why she has so many female fans.

Agreed, and the same reason why TR pre-reboot had a massive female fan base :)


And yes, there are a lot of T&As in Game of Thrones, however there's also wonderful, textured characterization as well, so I don't have an issue with the show.

Rhi

If GoT didn't have wonderful, textured characterization, though, it would simply cater to a different type of audience. It still wouldn't deserve condemnation then if that was the case.


that said, has it ever been confirmed that the money Lara uses in LAU from her parents? Or is it money she made on her own?

I think the idea that Lara used to finance everything with her parents' money mostly rests on assumptions. I don't recall there ever been any confirmation. Though it's been a while since I played the older games, so I could be wrong. Someone correct me if so :whistle:


Wow - you are the only other person I have seen mention Wet! Loved that game, expecially the soundtrack!

F5qdLqvVtZw

I love it!


Am I the only one who read the article and was let down by there being no mention of it being a timed exclusive? I wasn't expecting them (GI) to hound CD about it, but it was just barely mentioned as being on 360, let alone eventually possibly moving to other systems. They could've at least thrown in a "CD refused to comment about it" if they even asked about it. I dunno, I guess since it's such a big issue for the TR fan community and a new move for TR I just expected at least a "We asked, but they couldn't answer" or something. Poor journalism.

Poor journalism? Maybe. Though perhaps more likely agreements were made in advance about the topics. In that case it would be perfectly understandable.


Russian wilderness? really? well thats boring. Thats not exotic at all, could wander into a park and see wilderness...
ugh... looks like cabelas big game hunter with a girl as the main character.

would like to see lara visting pyramids, atlantis, or a cloud city, this is a video game, its not bound by physics or reality. Lara could literally go anywhere and instead its another game in regular environments... boooooring.... changes channel... /interest

I agree with your "it's a video game and thus not bound by physics or reality" argument, but I do think you're jumping the gun here. You haven't played the game yet, so you can't say it's gonna be boring.

Just because part of the game takes place in a "Russian wilderness" doesn't mean that the place necessarily will follow the physics of reality. You only have to look at the first game in the reboot to see that the devs in no way are being bound by reality (himiko, demons, etc)


EDIT: I realise I accidentally ignored Driber, whoops!

Ha, no worries, Alex :D


Oh, no, not at all. I just think it gets out of hand sometimes, I think there's a well defined line between looking like someone dressed themself to look sexy or comfortable in their skin and looking like some game developer dressed them purely to look that way for attention.

I think that "did she dress herself?" meme that's going around in certain circles *cough* tumblr *cough* is ridiculous. We're talking about fictional characters, not people. Of course they didn't dress themselves. Besides, women dress for getting attention all the time, there's nothing unrealistic nor inherently bad about that. And so do men for that matter.


Take all those MMO advertisements you used to see on the sides of webpages that they'd use as clickbate (if I can remember one in particular, I'll edit the title in, but it's been a while since I've gotten adblock so I don't even know if it's still being advertised two years later).

Heh, I wouldn't know either, since I've been using ad block software for ages.

But if you're talking about stuff like this...





...then I really don't have a problem with that kind of attire.

If it ain't your cup of tea, don't consume it is my motto, heh. Which obviously applies to myself as well.


True, and perhaps one day I will

Cool :)

KManX89
17th Feb 2015, 16:06
Ooo, that is ~juicy~, it sounds amazing tbh, but I still can't get past the timed exclusivity deal. It's like everytime I get excited or see something I like a bucket of water is thrown on me to remind me that I won't be able to play it until later.

FIFY.

RybatGrimes
17th Feb 2015, 19:06
Crystal Dynamics is constructing physics-based puzzles

I hope these won't be the only kinds of puzzles, like in the reboot. >.>


*Noah mentions catering to the average player, and not wanting to stump them*

https://31.media.tumblr.com/f4ca718cf524fbc5286fc33cc28ecc3b/tumblr_inline_njxjmjjovn1qgigev.gif


Am I the only one who read the article and was let down by there being no mention of it being a timed exclusive? I wasn't expecting them (GI) to hound CD about it, but it was just barely mentioned as being on 360, let alone eventually possibly moving to other systems. They could've at least thrown in a "CD refused to comment about it" if they even asked about it. I dunno, I guess since it's such a big issue for the TR fan community and a new move for TR I just expected at least a "We asked, but they couldn't answer" or something. Poor journalism.

Their not going to answer it, so what's the point in asking? We already know Noah would've been like "aaahhhh.... welll... *smiles* that's just not really something we can discuss at this time *beats around the bush further*"


FIFY.

I don't know what that means.

Driber
17th Feb 2015, 21:22
^ He "fixed" your quote.

Bridgetkfisher
17th Feb 2015, 21:26
From what I understood from what Noah was saying about not wanting to stump players was that the tombs would ramp up in difficulty while the main game would remain casual compartmentalizing the puzzles to be optional?

Barrier_Maiden
17th Feb 2015, 22:31
I'm definitely an "average player" and I'm terrible at puzzles. I had to look up solutions for a couple in TR13, and everyone says those were too easy. But that's the thing: I looked up the solutions. There's no reason to dumb it down for simpletons like me when we're just going to look up walkthroughs anyway. Make them challenging and everybody gets what they want.

Bridgetkfisher
17th Feb 2015, 22:41
I'm definitely an "average player" and I'm terrible at puzzles. I had to look up solutions for a couple in TR13, and everyone says those were too easy. But that's the thing: I looked up the solutions. There's no reason to dumb it down for simpletons like me when we're just going to look up walkthroughs anyway. Make them challenging and everybody gets what they want.

good point, it 2015 we all have internet to google this stuff, they should really take the gloves off since it is an 18+ game. Puzzless made TR famous to begin with, who knows it may make it famous again?

Gitb97
18th Feb 2015, 21:00
The new article kind of surprised me? I wasn't expecting an article about movies :lol:

dark7angel
18th Feb 2015, 21:06
Here's the link to the new article (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/18/eight-films-that-helped-inspire-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx) for the folks who haven't seen it yet, since the Hub hasn't updated yet (at least for me).

Gitb97
18th Feb 2015, 21:11
^ yeah, you kind of have to refresh the main page instead of actually going to the hub - the hub is kind of useless to be honest

Tecstar70
18th Feb 2015, 21:22
Here's the link to the new article (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/18/eight-films-that-helped-inspire-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx) for the folks who haven't seen it yet, since the Hub hasn't updated yet (at least for me).

Thanks!! :thumb:

AlexWeiss
18th Feb 2015, 22:31
I really wasn't surprised with any of these, I mean The Descent has so many parallels in certain scenes with TR2013 for starters, and then there are tons of action/survival films. I kind of hoped for at least one treasure hunter film or something along those lines...

WinterSoldierLTE
19th Feb 2015, 00:27
Poor journalism? Maybe. Though perhaps more likely agreements were made in advance about the topics. In that case it would be perfectly understandable.

Yeah that's true, I didn't think about that. Maybe I was a bit harsh with the "poor journalism" comment, but it just seemed like journalistic gold. If I were the interviewer, even if it was an interview for a game I wasn't a fan of, it'd be one of the first questions asked simply because you know it'd make a good story and people would buy the issue more if they knew it were in there. It'd sell, and it'd be one of those "hard line" questions gaming press (I assume at least) dream to ask about. You know, something other than "So what about multi-player?" to ask about.

I'm a little jaded when it comes to GI tho, to be honest. It's nice to have a mag to read about games but they really don't do it for me with their writing most of the time. And I am a subscriber. Gaming mags are pretty limited in the U.S. so it's either GI, the official Xbox mag, or EGM if you're a console gamer such as myself. Europe has way better gaming press, IMO. But not all of them do overseas subscriptions. We gotta take what we can get here.

Rai
19th Feb 2015, 01:14
Clearly not the highlight of the month's updates :p. Still, it's interesting to learn a little of the really early development process and what films CD were inspired by for particular mood/survival/combat elements.

Lara_Fan_84
19th Feb 2015, 01:36
It looks awesome. The graphics look so real. If I buy a PS4 I'll be for this game and future next-generation games I get that'll be related to GTA, MGS and of course TR. I really hope next time there's a game we don't have any timed exclusives so we don't have to go through this again. Everyone gets it the day it comes out.

The storyline seems similar to the first game, secret society seems like the Solari. But I like the sound of all the different stuff you can do, but I was hoping for the same health system as last time, but if you're low on health and have to find herbs and use a cloth I guess it makes it seem more real, but a pain in the butt if you're bleeding to death and can't find anything. Maybe you get certain animals during the day then different ones at night if they have day to night transition.

I also like that Jonah is coming back, he's my second favorite character. He got bumped up when Roth died. I had a top three: Lara, Roth, and Jonah.

Lara_Fan_84
19th Feb 2015, 01:38
Originally Posted by RybatGrimes

Ooo, that is ~juicy~, it sounds amazing tbh, but I still can't get past the timed exclusivity deal. It's like everytime I get excited or see something I like a bucket of water is thrown on me to remind me that I won't be able to play it until later.

Better than not being able to play it at all.

Tecstar70
19th Feb 2015, 06:39
Originally Posted by RybatGrimes


Better than not being able to play it at all.

That's what I like - positivity!! :thumb:

AdeleDazeem
19th Feb 2015, 08:21
Here's the link to the new article (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/18/eight-films-that-helped-inspire-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx) for the folks who haven't seen it yet, since the Hub hasn't updated yet (at least for me).

Thanks. It's the 19th and it still hasn't refreshed.

Not the best article, but I agree it's nice to see how CD's developement process works. :)

RybatGrimes
19th Feb 2015, 18:17
Better than not being able to play it at all.

That sounds like something someone with an Xbox One would say. :p

either way, it's hardly the point.

Lara_Fan_84
19th Feb 2015, 23:27
That sounds like something someone with an Xbox One would say. :p

either way, it's hardly the point.


I don't have an Xbox or a PS4, but if the game makes it to PS4 I'll get it and buy the system. So there. :rasp:

Bridgetkfisher
20th Feb 2015, 16:51
Thanks. It's the 19th and it still hasn't refreshed.

Not the best article, but I agree it's nice to see how CD's developement process works. :)

does CD have a dev diaries youtube channel like other devs? Bought something for tr2013 called final hours but never watched it. Noah is an AWESOME, he knows the game and is excited about it, watching him talk about the game makes me excited, his enthusiasm is contagious. :nut:

AlexWeiss
20th Feb 2015, 19:45
The Final Hours I think were the closest thing to dev diaries we had, but it wasn't on their YouTube channel (maybe a few things were, not everything).

AdeleDazeem
20th Feb 2015, 20:01
They were really cool though. I loved the part on the instrument they made for the game and of course Luddington's MoCap session!

Next update Feb 18th? I'm guessing that would be today...?

Tecstar70
20th Feb 2015, 20:39
Wow! Great update! Check it out, I'm salivating! Loving the handgun.

RotTR Gear Guide!

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/20/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-gear-guide.aspx

AdeleDazeem
20th Feb 2015, 20:49
Agreed, it is a great update!

Tactical knife, hmm? Would that be for cutting open animals or combat too?

AlexWeiss
20th Feb 2015, 21:13
If I was a cosplayer, man, I'd be going crazy right now :D

Rai
20th Feb 2015, 22:05
Oops, someone beat me to it. My Laptop lied to me and I didn't see this page had moved on

Next update is Monday 23rd as we go into the final week of Tomb Raider goodness. :D

Tihocan
21st Feb 2015, 00:13
Jonah: It's cold, take this scarf.
Lara: Thanks
*five minutes later*
Jonah: What are you doing, Lara?
Lara: Can't get it to sit just right - can you still see my necklace ok?
Jonah: What? Uh... yeah?
Lara: Boom. *snaps Instagram selfie*

Edit: Not being facetious, just had a laugh when I read "worn low to showcase necklace"

Gitb97
21st Feb 2015, 00:54
Amazing! Better than the last article by a mile, looks like this is the confirmation of no Dual Pistols too, hm? :p

Driber
21st Feb 2015, 01:10
Yeah that's true, I didn't think about that. Maybe I was a bit harsh with the "poor journalism" comment, but it just seemed like journalistic gold. If I were the interviewer, even if it was an interview for a game I wasn't a fan of, it'd be one of the first questions asked simply because you know it'd make a good story and people would buy the issue more if they knew it were in there. It'd sell, and it'd be one of those "hard line" questions gaming press (I assume at least) dream to ask about. You know, something other than "So what about multi-player?" to ask about.

Oh I know what you mean. Though can you imagine the backlash if the mag did have some sort of exclusive regarding the xbox deal? It would kind of put a damper on the whole project, wouldn't it :whistle:


I'm a little jaded when it comes to GI tho, to be honest. It's nice to have a mag to read about games but they really don't do it for me with their writing most of the time.

I'm jaded towards any gaming news outlet who has said stupid things in the whole #gamergate debacle. And sadly, GI was one of them...


And I am a subscriber. Gaming mags are pretty limited in the U.S. so it's either GI, the official Xbox mag, or EGM if you're a console gamer such as myself. Europe has way better gaming press, IMO. But not all of them do overseas subscriptions. We gotta take what we can get here.

Oh yeah over here we have plenty of gaming mags. Used to be subscribed to a few of them, myself.

Bridgetkfisher
21st Feb 2015, 03:21
The Final Hours I think were the closest thing to dev diaries we had, but it wasn't on their YouTube channel (maybe a few things were, not everything).

Id like to see more dev vids on the official youtube. Would help the overall community still feel apart of the TR experience since its launching only on xb1 until it hits other platforms. sucks for lara fans that feel left out if they dont have the console but this would give them a way to keep up with the game and stay excited? XDDD

Chocolate_shake
21st Feb 2015, 14:44
QzoZ8bhnxVg

No new info , but the guys ( from OXM ) who saw the demo talk about the game and share their impressions

Rai
21st Feb 2015, 16:02
Thanks for posting that. I kept hearing phrases such as organic, improvisation, traditional. This is promising. And the guy was saying that he got the impression that there was less of the scripted/cinematic feel that we had in the last game. I hope this is true. I don't mind the occasional scripted moment; the avalanche sounds like it will be one, but there was scripted overkill in TR'13. so it'll be really nice and welcome if they have cut back on those sequences.

AlexWeiss
21st Feb 2015, 18:35
The entire magazine made me very hopeful, but the video saying that it was less scripted and still absolutely beautiful made me quite happy. Personally, I'm not one who has a massive issue with cinematic -esque moments everywhere, but it is nice to just have something so beautiful and be able to take in the experience the way you want to, not, as the guy in the video says, the way that the developers necessarily want you to.

Another thing, I think this is the first time in a while that I've heard someone refer to Tomb Raider as an adventure game alone. There was no 'survival' before it or 'action' after it, he simply said, "It's a nice feeling third person adventure game." It's a small thing that sounds quite silly but it's important, because Tomb Raider has always been that, but as much as I loved the reboot, they rarely referred to it as such.

Gitb97
22nd Feb 2015, 01:36
^ Me too! I'm really excited now!

TranceTrouble
23rd Feb 2015, 19:52
this would make an awesome widescreen litho :naughty:

width=600

Gitb97
23rd Feb 2015, 20:10
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/23/the-business-decisions-behind-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx the article is up :)

AdeleDazeem
23rd Feb 2015, 21:03
I've got only one thing to say about that: "If they could stop making M$ sound like a sainth... That would be great"

Tecstar70
23rd Feb 2015, 21:15
Enjoyed that video. Of course he didn't give anything away - what did you expect! BUT the answers he gave were non-committal which is a GOOD THING!

I got the sense that they want this game to perform as best as it can on the Xbox One which is good for everybody - if it can do that it can perform fabulously on other platforms too.

They also need it to be ready for Holiday 2015 - so any resource MS can provide will ensure that happens. That doesn't mean they are tinkering with the game though. I don't believe they would be doing that - that's CD's job.

Tihocan
23rd Feb 2015, 22:16
Of course he didn't give anything away - what did you expect!

Yeah, despite that I think a lot of people here are still going to be unhappy.

DamianGraham
23rd Feb 2015, 23:50
I'm not sure what's worse- the fact that he didn't say "no it won't be on any other console" or the fact he didn't say yes. This constant state of limbo is annoying and frustrating (obviously) and "console" could mean just PC to them and not Playstation- and before anyone begins arguing with me I'm aware that the stipulations of the deal may limit what can be said, it doesn't make it any less frustrating. I'd rather a flat out "no, it won't be on playstation" than all the toying they're doing.

Also, not to sound rude but is Mr. Gallagher sick? He is looking very thin in comparison to just 4 years ago at E3... No disrespect intended, I'm just curious.

Rai
24th Feb 2015, 00:55
I don' think CD/SE can say either way. The exclusive is timed, we know this. The carefully worded standard and repeated responses seem to suggest that CD/SE aren't outright ruling out a PS/PC release once the duration is over. Naturally MS want to sell XBoxes and SE want to sell as many copies on day one, so they're gonna make it seem like that's the only option to gamers for now to push those XBox sales. However, it seems that CD aren't ruling out the possibility of a release on other platforms otherwise they'd say, right? Why the duration otherwise? They've already said they're not ruling it out, but they're probably contracted not to say more than that. Also, you'll note how they're saying CD are concentrating on the Xbox version. This does not rule out another company, say Nixxes working on PS/PC versions in the meantime.

Darrell does look thinner than he did during the marketing for TR'13. If you notice, Brian Horton has also lost weight going by his interviews. Perhaps it's the stress and overtime of working on the games.

Well, here's to the 25th and hopefully some more screens or perhaps some news on the music?

DamianGraham
24th Feb 2015, 01:32
I don' think CD/SE can say either way. The exclusive is timed, we know this. The carefully worded standard and repeated responses seem to suggest that CD/SE aren't outright ruling out a PS/PC release once the duration is over. Naturally MS want to sell XBoxes and SE want to sell as many copies on day one, so they're gonna make it seem like that's the only option to gamers for now to push those XBox sales. However, it seems that CD aren't ruling out the possibility of a release on other platforms otherwise they'd say, right? Why the duration otherwise? They've already said they're not ruling it out, but they're probably contracted not to say more than that. Also, you'll note how they're saying CD are concentrating on the Xbox version. This does not rule out another company, say Nixxes working on PS/PC versions in the meantime.

Darrell does look thinner than he did during the marketing for TR'13. If you notice, Brian Horton has also lost weight going by his interviews. Perhaps it's the stress and overtime of working on the games.

Well, here's to the 25th and hopefully some more screens or perhaps some news on the music?

To me- the very careful wording, and the nervous laugh tell a story. I think the game is going to release on PS now, because after having read countless other developer notes- the two consoles (PS4, and XB1) are almost identical to develop for now. I forgot the exact article I read it on, but supposedly porting between the two has been easier than it was between the PS3 and 360. That information, and what I'm hearing (or not hearing I should say) give rise (pun intended) to the hope that the game will be on Playstation (PC is a given at this point).

One other factor that leads me to believe this is how he also said that sans exclusivity, Tomb Raider would still have found a way and been published- so they didn't need Microsoft in the way that people have said. Microsoft didn't save this game from not being developed, they just made it cheaper and easier- meaning now there really is NO reason not to bring it to Playstation published under Square Enix. Half the cost has been covered, and there's a huge audience to make even more money on- and we know now that Square loves money... We'll just have to wait I suppose. As long as I don't have to wait longer than a year I'll be okay- plus games between xb1 and ps4 are so similar visually and functionally, I'm not worried about a port so much. Just hurry up and confirm it or deny it outright lol.

Yeah I've noticed, first thing I noticed actually. I can't imagine he's in an easy position being put to the stake for ravenous fans to take aim at- myself included honestly- for the exclusivity decision, but I despite my anger I do hope his health is okay. Stress is the worst thing for your body.

Metalrocks
24th Feb 2015, 03:41
certainly carefully chosen words regarding the deal, which was expected. but at least some confirmation that it will come out for other would be still comforting. otherwise if they keep it hidden for a long time, i will lose some interest and maybe get it once its cheaper on steam and hopefully a good port.

d1n0_xD
24th Feb 2015, 07:44
Okay, read most of the posts in here, just gonna chime in for a second XD Basically, I love all this, I feel like the game is going to surprise me and amaze me more than TR2013 did, and that game was awesome!

Her looks, loving them, the trailer was nice, and the screenshots look consistent :D Loving the gear and everything, can't wait to see it in action :D Regarding dual-pistols, I can see them coming back, like, you just choose them in the weapons menu, we'll see, but I like the bow and arrow, since I always try to take the stealth approach. Hoping for some awesome bow stealth kills, and awesome AI that will notice and not notice me killing enemies, depending on how good I was :D
Ajughfdksugskugd I'm so excited, I'm guessing E3 will be a RotTR show :D

Phasetastic
24th Feb 2015, 14:27
I think the new gear and the way Lara looks are fantastic. I play on PC so if I get to play it am thinking this could be the best TR game in a long while.

Rai
25th Feb 2015, 01:55
In case you haven't seen it, GI are asking for questions for their podcast. Ask in the comments: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/02/24/ask-us-your-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-questions-for-our-special-edition-podcast.aspx?utm_content=bufferd3a08&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

WinterSoldierLTE
25th Feb 2015, 02:04
Ya know, there was no good news in that "Business of R.O.T.T.R." vid, but man I dug that vid. I dig behind the scenes stuff, especially when it comes more in depth stuff than just: "This is Matt. Matt is our artist. He's going to show you how fast he can draw a mountain range. Go on then, Matt, show them.". The actual workings of the business, I suppose.

I'll go ahead and redact my "poor journalism" comment from earlier, but remain not a 100% G.I. fanboy.

AdobeArtist
25th Feb 2015, 04:40
Lara Croft, Tomb Raider, is an iconic figure. One of the reasons she is iconic is because of her dual pistols. In TR2013 she wasn't a Tomb Raider. There was a little nod to the dual pistols at the end of the game. That wasn't by accident. Rise of the Tomb Raider is the next installment in Lara Croft, Student, becoming Lara Croft, Tomb Raider. Will she become a fully fledged Tomb Raider by the end of it? I suspect not quite. Will we see dual pistols by the end of RotTR? After TR2013 I expect to see at least a couple of "nod's". Will we ever see dual pistols? Of course we will! Why wouldn't we? Why wouldn't reboot Lara Croft eventually become the Tomb Raider? Thats the point of the reboot isn't it?

I disagree, as this is a purely superficial perspective on what makes Lara iconic as a character. It is no more her pistols that makes her iconic than the batarangs that define Batman, or the cape which makes Superman. In truth what makes any character an icon, it's the landmarks they represent in their media and lore. In the case of Superman, it's being the progenitor who ushered in the era of costumed and super powered heroes, having created the standard of the secret identity and such. Plus how he stands as a symbol of virtue and justice. Batman is an icon as the creature of the night who strikes fear into the hearts of criminals. Captain America is an icon as a symbol of freedom and patriotic spirit made into human form.

Now while some protagonists are known for signature weapons or other paraphernalia, where it's the weapon that has it's own iconic status (Mjolnir, Excalibur, Captain America's shield, Wolverine's claws, etc...), it's not the weapon which defines the character, but really their unique traits and qualities.

And I've seen some people equate Lara's dual pistols to Mjolnir and Excalibur, but that comparison falls flat for two reasons;

* the pistols in and of themselves are nothing special or unique. Not like the hammer that is distinctive for being one of a kind, and unique for it's mystic properties, just as Cap's shield in unique as being virtually indestructible.

* Lara has never been limited to just the pistols as weapons that she weilds, unlike Thor who only ever relied on Mjolnir. Lara has always made use of her options, from automatic rifles, to shotguns, snipers, and so on. This has been the case in each and every installment of the series right from the very beginning.

So what I would say defines Lara as an icon is representing female protagonists in the gaming media as self reliant leading ladies. Sure there is also Samus in this regard who preceded her, but Lara by far was more prolific having gained broader media attention to bringing this image. Also she is the avatar for the exploration adventure & puzzle genre, which she pioneered for gaming.


There's a very coolness in the new Lara. And I like that pic where she is reading a book in a library which seems to be the Croft Manor. :)


I was excited to see this image too. Getting a glimpse of Lara's home, what is her personal space and is a reflection of her, gives us more intimate insight into who she is as a person, much more so than what we see of her adventuring exploits.

But as for having her flat as an explorable hub, a-la the mansion of the older games; c'mon... how much "exploration" can we really get from such a confined space (which is likely just a single floor)? It would be like, "here's the living room, here's the kitchen, here's Lara's bedroom, here's Sam's bedroom, here's the bathroom where Lara takes her showers, and... and.... aaaaaaaand..."

ummmmm, what was this about again?? :scratch::whistle::o

d1n0_xD
25th Feb 2015, 08:47
^ I agree with you regarding the pistols, AA, it's a poor statement to say Lara is defined by her dual pistols. It's the same as saying Lara is a sex symbol and nothing else, just because she's hot. And like, whenever I had the option to use a rifle or a shotgun in previous games, I used them, because, let's face it, those pistols suck when it comes to damage, only thing they have going for them is the infinite ammo.

I'm not saying we should abandon them, I love those pistols, but like, saying Lara isn't Lara without her pistols kinda sounds like you don't know the character, IMO.

AdobeArtist
25th Feb 2015, 12:18
... saying Lara isn't Lara without her pistols kinda sounds like you don't know the character, IMO.

EXACTLY!! You distilled the essence of my original post perfectly. :thumb: :wave: It would be similarly like stating Lara isn't Lara without the teal tank top and short shorts, heh :p

Driber
25th Feb 2015, 12:21
I disagree, as this is a purely superficial perspective on what makes Lara iconic as a character.

Uhm, no it's not. Her guns actually have a function - killing enemies. Superficial would be to say that Lara's boobs make her iconic.

Which is of course true - Lara (well, pre-reboot Lara at least) is known largely because of her large bust size. And sure, we can call it superficial, but that doesn't make it any less true ;)


It is no more her pistols that makes her iconic than the batarangs that define Batman, or the cape which makes Superman.

I'm not sure why you are talking about "defining" -- Tecstar didn't mention that word at all -- but it would be correct to say that Superman's cape is iconic to his character. It literally makes Superman, Superman. Along his other characteristics, like the ability to fly, see through lead, etc.

And again, you can call it superficial, and you can do the whole "does he really need a cape in order to fly?" routine, but that doesn't make the iconicness of the cape any less.

Not sure about the batarangs, though.


In truth what makes any character an icon, it's the landmarks they represent in their media and lore.

Oh you mean how Lara's iconic dual guns has inspired many other works of fiction depicting women who dual wield? :p


In the case of Superman, it's being the progenitor who ushered in the era of costumed and super powered heroes, having created the standard of the secret identity and such. Plus how he stands as a symbol of virtue and justice. Batman is an icon as the creature of the night who strikes fear into the hearts of criminals. Captain America is an icon as a symbol of freedom and patriotic spirit made into human form.

You are just listing a bunch of additional iconic characteristics. I don't see how any of these are supposed to discount Lara's dual guns as iconic.


Now while some protagonists are known for signature weapons or other paraphernalia, where it's the weapon that has it's own iconic status (Mjolnir, Excalibur, Captain America's shield, Wolverine's claws, etc...), it's not the weapon which defines the character, but really their unique traits and qualities.

Sounds like a strawman argument to me. Tecstar didn't say that Lara's dual guns define her character.


And I've seen some people equate Lara's dual pistols to Mjolnir and Excalibur, but that comparison falls flat for two reasons;

If people have been doing this, then I'm guessing their point was that Lara is very well known for wielding dual guns, just like Thor is very well known for using his signature weapon - a hammer. Both are weapons which you don't really see your average enemy use. It's special. It's... iconic.

So just because the comparison doesn't match 100% in terms of what those weapons can do or what their properties are, doesn't mean the point of the comparison is lost.


* the pistols in and of themselves are nothing special or unique.

No, but the way Lara owns them, is.

It's like how you always rave about Lara's dresses - how she owns them, how they accentuate her femininity, and how powerful it makes her look, etc. Well, dresses in and of themselves are nothing really special or unique, either, are they? ;)

Well... unless we're talking about Lady Gaga's dresses. Those are arguable unique, for better or for worse :D


Not like the hammer that is distinctive for being one of a kind, and unique for it's mystic properties, just as Cap's shield in unique as being virtually indestructible.

Funny, the first thought that comes to mind when I hear "indestructible shield" is Link's Hylian Shield from The Legend of Zelda. So Cap's shield is not so unique, after all :p In fact, the Hylian shield is more unique, as it is literally indestructible, whereas Cap's shield can be broken by a handful of enemies more powerful. And guess what, I say that Lara's dual guns are as iconic as Link's Hylian shield.

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/captain-america-was-dumb-to-fight-thanos-14824.jpg



* Lara has never been limited to just the pistols as weapons that she weilds, unlike Thor who only ever relied on Mjolnir. Lara has always made use of her options, from automatic rifles, to shotguns, snipers, and so on. This has been the case in each and every installment of the series right from the very beginning.

So what's your point? If a character doesn't use anything else than one single weapon, said weapon isn't iconic? I strongly disagree with that line of thought if that is what you're saying.


So what I would say defines Lara as an icon is representing female protagonists in the gaming media as self reliant leading ladies.

One might argue that "self reliant" part, but that's neither here nor there. The thing is that what you just tried to describe is just one of the things that makes Lara iconic. She's also iconic for her tomb raiding, stealing relics, big boobs, dual guns, shorts and green tanktop, braid, the list goes on...


Sure there is also Samus in this regard who preceded her, but Lara by far was more prolific having gained broader media attention to bringing this image.

And why do you think that is? Because of said tomb raiding, stealing relics, big boobs, dual guns, shorts and green tanktop, braid, etc.

Especially the dual guns and boobs :p

If you think Lara became this big icon in gaming because of "being self-reliant" and being female, only, you are deluding yourself.


Also she is the avatar for the exploration adventure & puzzle genre, which she pioneered for gaming.

Agreed.


But as for having her flat as an explorable hub, a-la the mansion of the older games; c'mon... how much "exploration" can we really get from such a confined space (which is likely just a single floor)? It would be like, "here's the living room, here's the kitchen, here's Lara's bedroom, here's Sam's bedroom, here's the bathroom where Lara takes her showers, and... and.... aaaaaaaand..."

Sounds like a good argument to bring the manor back :D


^ I agree with you regarding the pistols, AA, it's a poor statement to say Lara is defined by her dual pistols.

Well then I guess it's a good thing Tecstar didn't actually say this and that it was just AA putting words into his mouth :p


And like, whenever I had the option to use a rifle or a shotgun in previous games, I used them, because, let's face it, those pistols suck when it comes to damage

That's why poor Lara needs two of them :lol:


I'm not saying we should abandon them, I love those pistols, but like, saying Lara isn't Lara without her pistols kinda sounds like you don't know the character, IMO.

On the contrary - it's because many fans know the Lara character who has been wielding dual guns for 19 years (still to this very day, mind you!) that they would like to see dual guns back in the next (or in a future) TR game, heh.

I'm sure that there will similarly be many TR fans a few years from now going "Lara isn't Lara without her iconic bow" :whistle:


EXACTLY!! You distilled the essence of my original post perfectly. http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/thumb.png http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/wave.gif

lol, sometimes I wish you would distil your own posts that contain those walls of texts :rasp:

I kid, I kid :D


...maybe


It would be similarly like stating Lara isn't Lara without the teal tank top and short shorts, heh http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.png

Also a valid argument in my book :p

I wouldn't like to see Lara walking around in those damn ugly baggy pants forever :whistle:

Tecstar70
25th Feb 2015, 15:28
I refer the group to my original statement m'lud: "Lara Croft, Tomb Raider, is an iconic figure. One of the reasons she is iconic is because of her dual pistols."

I never said anything about defining her character, as Driber rightly pointed out.
Lara Croft is iconic for various reasons, but there are some physical traits that are strongly associated with her more than any other character. In thinking about a character as an icon consider this. You walk up to someone and say a name. Provided they have heard of that character an image will spring to mind. An iconic image in some cases, as some characters more famously stand out from the rest.

Batman - black, cape, the bat sign, the cowl
Mario - moustache, red hat, red dungarees
Mickey Mouse - big ears, white gloves, big eyes, big shoes
Lara Croft - Long braid, shorts, green tank top, boobs, dual pistols

It is the iconic image that I am referring to. Lara didn't apear on all those magazine covers in the 90's because she had deep psychological issues and raided tombs. It was because her image was unique and particularly so for that period of computer gaming.
So, my point is that she WILL become the Tomb Raider and along with that comes the iconic image of Lara Croft which is still being upheld in GoL and LCTOO and that iconic image involves Dual Pistols. The only way I can see this NOT happening is that CD don't think it important enough, but I think they recognise Lara'a legacy is important to the character.

Blacktron
25th Feb 2015, 16:27
I feel this question of what makes Lara Croft is being pulled into the extremes: dual guns and the original clothing are not the glue that holds everything together, but they're not a trifling thing either. And being a paragon of the adventurous and fearless woman who also has emotions and cares about her dumbass girlfriend is not gonna make her big success on it's own: it's the combination of both that makes her what she is.

And the reason I want the dual guns is not because she always had them and therefore that's how it should be, or because that's what makes Lara who she is and I am the only one who can define that, no; the reason I want them is because I like dual wielding guns.

Yeah, that's a really crazy reason, isn't it...?

Tecstar70
25th Feb 2015, 16:29
The Xbox magazine gives a much more juicy preview than gameinformer . Some info sounds absolutely delicious -

"We catch glimpses of catacombs sprawling over multiple floors , a waterlogged shrine with lakes of shimmering green murk , an intriguing hellenic-looking number, with verdant greenery hanging from majestic pillars . "

"further into the cave we find an ancient greek ship stuck preserved in a frozen waterfall. A secret tomb, a reward for having the guts to leave the path and face your fears." :D

Just picked up my copy. Nice sleeve and cover...

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb430/tecstar/forum%20pics/20150225_160114_zpsvj19umbs.jpg

Rai
25th Feb 2015, 21:22
Balancing Survival Vs Action in Rise of the Tomb Raider (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/25/balancing-survival-vs-action-in-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx?utm_content=buffer285f7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)

Video interview with Noah Hughes.

DamianGraham
25th Feb 2015, 21:31
Balancing Survival Vs Action in Rise of the Tomb Raider (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/02/25/balancing-survival-vs-action-in-rise-of-the-tomb-raider.aspx?utm_content=buffer285f7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)

Video interview with Noah Hughes.

I didn't think that this one offered too much else other than what has already been said the last month. It's great to have some insight into the game- but Gameinformer's month long of exclusives was basically the same bit of information regurgitated and restated in different words over and over. The only real bit that was interesting was Gallagher's interview on the business decisions- even still a lot of it was just redundant PR wording. I'm looking forward to when the exclusivity runs out so they can be more candid and less "under the microscope" as they've been appearing. CD was fantastic with TR '13 and their communications with the fans, this time around feels different. Even Meagan has been a little bit more tight lipped and non existent in the forums.

AdeleDazeem
25th Feb 2015, 21:35
It's funny, I was actually affraid they'd put a 'hunger bar' in TR9.

Blacktron
25th Feb 2015, 21:56
It's funny, I was actually affraid they'd put a 'hunger bar' in TR9.

Oh, the horror... The horror!

Tihocan
25th Feb 2015, 22:27
It's funny, I was actually affraid they'd put a 'hunger bar' in TR9.
I'd expect it to be a bit more passive, yet rising in significance. E.g. Lara would say things like "Getting hungry" when it's not a problem, but hours later she would be getting exhausted more quickly, eating would happen automatically at fireplaces, etc etc...
Death from not eating takes days, so I don't know how that would be a factor...


Just picked up my copy. Nice sleeve and cover...
I went to pick up a copy when I was getting groceries, until I saw the price tag. $16.25 for a magazine is a bit too much for me.

WinterSoldierLTE
26th Feb 2015, 00:15
I went to pick up a copy when I was getting groceries, until I saw the price tag. $16.25 for a magazine is a bit too much for me.

Yeah that's a pretty penny (or pound, depending on your locale) for a magazine, TR cover story or not. Is it usually that expensive of a mag?

Tihocan
26th Feb 2015, 02:42
Yeah that's a pretty penny (or pound, depending on your locale) for a magazine, TR cover story or not. Is it usually that expensive of a mag?

No idea, to be honest. I haven't bought a gaming magazine in a good decade, and when I was they were around the AU$5-10 mark. And the expensive one had better come with a demo disc or something!

AdeleDazeem
26th Feb 2015, 07:58
I'd expect it to be a bit more passive, yet rising in significance. E.g. Lara would say things like "Getting hungry" when it's not a problem, but hours later she would be getting exhausted more quickly, eating would happen automatically at fireplaces, etc etc...
Death from not eating takes days, so I don't know how that would be a factor...

Oh, I'm sure there's not going to be a real 'hunger meter'. But when you hunt the deer in TR9, I thought it would introduce one. But luckely it didn't, but they did really good on the setting. Making you think as though it makes a difference to hunt animals. :)

Tecstar70
26th Feb 2015, 08:17
Just picked up my copy. Nice sleeve and cover...

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb430/tecstar/forum%20pics/20150225_160114_zpsvj19umbs.jpg

Nice article across 12 pages. They got to play some bits of the game and you get a sense of what CD are trying to achieve with the game. The healing and crafting elements sound like they will be interesting elements. Very excited!

WinterSoldierLTE
26th Feb 2015, 10:55
And the expensive one had better come with a demo disc or something!

Man, I miss those days. I haven't seen a game mag with a demo disc in ages. I got one called "Games, Inc." I think (for sure of the "Games", not so sure about the "Inc.") a few months ago from Europe that came with a dvd with previews and dev interviews and whatnot, but it's region specific and I couldn't watch it. :(

About the food meter convo, when I first heard we'd need to hunt animals in TR2013 I always pictured a 'MGS3' style stamina meter and system. Didn't happen, obviously, but I'm wondering again if maybe they're going to go for that.

Tecstar70
26th Feb 2015, 11:19
About the food meter convo, when I first heard we'd need to hunt animals in TR2013 I always pictured a 'MGS3' style stamina meter and system. Didn't happen, obviously, but I'm wondering again if maybe they're going to go for that.

If you watch the latest video on Game Informer Noah touches on that, saying that that aspect in early development started to detract from the game and they decided to go with the upgrade weapon option as the main focus.

Gitb97
26th Feb 2015, 12:30
^ I wouldn't want a "hunger bar" as such because if you went to the shanty town there weren't many animals around for her to eat, whereas in the forest with deers there was like three different types of animal. The game wouldn't have worked with a hunger bar and if they add one it still won't be as much fun, he even said its too simulation-y. I like their ideas though because it was about survival so I like their creativity.
When he said that weapons being the main focus it made me happy that they actually wanted us to enjoy ourselves and not be obligated to feed Lara. I do see people complaining about the fact we only hunt one deer, but I ended up killing a whole ton when I wanted my upgrades. So it worked really well.
I wasn't paying a lot of attention to the video though, I never really do with videos, I switch off for some reason. I prefer reading articles :rasp:

AlexWeiss
26th Feb 2015, 20:33
Yeah that's a pretty penny (or pound, depending on your locale) for a magazine, TR cover story or not. Is it usually that expensive of a mag?
Meaningless fact: In the US it's technically called a cent, not a penny like what its normal name in the UK is (cents=cent pence=penny), though no one calls it that. There was not an actual reason for me to point that out but why hold important knowledge when you can know miscellaneous information? :lol:

I usually buy digital copies($4-$6)/borrow it from someone, but the last time I bought a physical games magazine it was like $9 (and that was like 2007/8). It's really ridiculous, printing costs aren't that high, are they?

WinterSoldierLTE
26th Feb 2015, 23:48
Meaningless fact: In the US it's technically called a cent, not a penny like what its normal name in the UK is (cents=cent pence=penny), though no one calls it that. There was not an actual reason for me to point that out but why hold important knowledge when you can know miscellaneous information? :lol:

I usually buy digital copies($4-$6)/borrow it from someone, but the last time I bought a physical games magazine it was like $9 (and that was like 2007/8). It's really ridiculous, printing costs aren't that high, are they?

Actually we do use "cent", only in plural form mostly: Cents. "Here's your change, five dollars and seventeen cents". But a lot of cashiers do use the singular "cent" when giving out one cent in a change amount as well. If it's a singular cent in a typical B.S.ing convo, then yes, typically it's just a penny. "I woke up and found a penny on my nightstand. No idea where it came from or how it got there. Weird, huh?". Anyhoo...

I bought a digital mag once, and that was the G.I. 'Rise' issue this thread was originally about. I was expecting there to be some file created on my phone (got it off the Play store) with a shortcut for it so I could read it at any time with ease, but it doesn't seem to work that way. I have to go in to the Play store every time I want to read it. And at this point I'm still unsure if it'll be saved there or if it'll be lost forever once a new issue of G.I. is up for sale on Play. I'm new to digital mags, so I dunno. Not too impressed with them tho. Would much rather have something I can actually hold and physically pick up and read in bed without having to squint at a screen. I'm old school tho, and resist new technological trends whenever I can. I'm very much a "This is still working. Why change it up?" kind of guy when it comes to tech.

Driber
27th Feb 2015, 11:38
^ I wouldn't want a "hunger bar" as such because if you went to the shanty town there weren't many animals around for her to eat, whereas in the forest with deers there was like three different types of animal. The game wouldn't have worked with a hunger bar and if they add one it still won't be as much fun, he even said its too simulation-y. I like their ideas though because it was about survival so I like their creativity.
When he said that weapons being the main focus it made me happy that they actually wanted us to enjoy ourselves and not be obligated to feed Lara.

And good thing the devs didn't go full "survival sim" mode that some fans were asking for. I remember reading some discussions here when a survival game was previewed (I think it was The Forest?) and people were all like "that would be so cool in the next TR game, and it would totally fit because Lara is trying to survive on the island", while not really thinking about how annoying it might actually be to constantly having to feed Lara :whistle:


I usually buy digital copies($4-$6)/borrow it from someone, but the last time I bought a physical games magazine it was like $9 (and that was like 2007/8). It's really ridiculous, printing costs aren't that high, are they?

No way printing costs make up 16 bucks, no. I used to buy gaming mags for like 4 bucks and less. And those were thick, popular, monthly nation-wide mags. Dunno why XBM is that crazy expensive. My guess would be that demand for physical copies in America is low, which would make distribution costs relatively high.

WinterSoldierLTE
27th Feb 2015, 12:13
Nah, the Xbox mag here in the states costs maybe $7 at the most. Not terribly expensive but not cheap either. They have terrible writers tho, and i'd never trust their reviews. They gave 'Alien: Isolation' low scores until people wrote in and argued it. 3 months later it was their game of the year. Pretty quick to backpedle and change their stance on stuff.

Gitb97
27th Feb 2015, 14:55
And good thing the devs didn't go full "survival sim" mode that some fans were asking for. I remember reading some discussions here when a survival game was previewed (I think it was The Forest?) and people were all like "that would be so cool in the next TR game, and it would totally fit because Lara is trying to survive on the island", while not really thinking about how annoying it might actually be to constantly having to feed Lara :whistle:

Exactly - imagine the complaints we'd be reading on here if people were constantly getting sidetracked looking for food, at least the one time you had to do it in TR, you weren't even started the game yet.