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absinthesize
3rd Feb 2015, 06:08
Ok, this is going to be i imagine a very unpopular post. its not a demand, not a threat, not a lament, merely a observation and a opinion.

I dont really care about legacy of kain, i found the games annoying/boring/convoluted. They just were not my cup of tea at all. A good few people liked them, thats cool.

but thats been awhile.

I got into this game, not because of legacy of kain, but because it was a third person team death match game with interesting class interplay (melee vs ranged) my fav game to play with friends years ago was alien vs predator 2, and i was always the alien.

As i continue playing this game, i understand the homage, ive read some of the lore posts and such...but it means nothing to me. I play the game because its fun, not beause of anything with legacy of kain.

I feel honestly, that the legacy of kain relations detracts from the game. its too niche, too many players feel misled with it (tho i agree many should have been more indepth with there research before laoding the game up).

What im saying, is that i think trying to use legacy of kain universe to justify the game is...well..hurting the games selling point. it makes less people itnerested overall.

This is my opinion. I dont know how feasible it would even be to create a more unique IP on a open beta stage game. probably not in the slightest, but i do think that legacy of kain pedigree is hurting it more then helping.

SquirrelInDaSky
3rd Feb 2015, 06:20
I got into this game, not because of legacy of kain, but because it was a third person team death match game with interesting class interplay (melee vs ranged)


Same for me.
I can't agree that the lore is hurting the game tho. There is no story in this game; sure, the classes and maps are based on lore, but they are interesting and well-done design-wise, so it doesn't really matter if you know the origins or not. 1 thing devs did right is that they don't shove any lore in our face, you don't need to read manuals to understand what's going on. There are deadly looking vampires fighting against bad-ass humans on some ancient grounds. That's enough to know for me.

absinthesize
3rd Feb 2015, 06:26
Same for me.
I can't agree that the lore is hurting the game tho. There is no story in this game; sure, the classes and maps are based on lore, but they are interesting and well-done design-wise, so it doesn't really matter if you know the origins or not. 1 thing devs did right is that they don't shove any lore in our face, you don't need to read manuals to understand what's going on. There are deadly looking vampires fighting against bad-ass humans on some ancient grounds. That's enough to know for me.

possibly true, as i said, my opinion.

love the game personally, i just know people go...legacy of kain? meh

Ysanoire
3rd Feb 2015, 06:51
None of the friends I got into this game, except for my own bf, knew anything about Legacy of Kain, so I already know people like you exist.

I don't see how this could possibly *hurt* the game though. All the multiplayer games have some lore attached to them. I think LoL's or DOTA's is much more elaborate than Nosgoth's class lore. To play Nosgoth you don't need to know why Janos must stay dead.

GenFeelGood
3rd Feb 2015, 07:46
I can't really be mad at you for that. You came for your own reasons just like the rest of us. I don't think the LoK connection hurts the game, maybe slows down the development at times so things can be fact checked; but just as you have concerns that LoK is hurting the game, there are those on the other side that think the game is hurting LoK.

absinthesize
3rd Feb 2015, 08:14
its just what ive encountered, more people seem disinterested when they hear its legacy of kain ties then itnerested.

snejjjj
3rd Feb 2015, 08:32
Same for me.
I can't agree that the lore is hurting the game tho. There is no story in this game; sure, the classes and maps are based on lore, but they are interesting and well-done design-wise, so it doesn't really matter if you know the origins or not. 1 thing devs did right is that they don't shove any lore in our face, you don't need to read manuals to understand what's going on. There are deadly looking vampires fighting against bad-ass humans on some ancient grounds. That's enough to know for me.

word

-Konf-
3rd Feb 2015, 08:32
I'm just like you, I haven't played a single LoK game, but when I first saw Nosgoth on YouTube I knew this game was made for me.

However, when it comes to the connection with the old lore, I really don't feel like it hinders the game at all. If anything, I think it makes it better. I, personally, enjoyed discovering a new universe and reading on lore and finding out all the connections. I like the setting and the background that previous games have given to Nosgoth.

When it comes to game design we've seen developers say that they want to stay true to the series, but I don't feel like it has a negative impact. A lot of hardcore LoK fans have already expressed their concerns here and there about how some classes or their abilities don't entirely represent the clan the way they would expect. But then again - the fact that developers are working with a timeline of the series that has not been touched gives them the freedom to come up with new things, for as long as they stay relevant and linked. Look at the Summoner for example. As far as I know (not a lore fan) Melchahim were never known for practising dark magic. But in the timeline that this game is set in, a lore post made this fantasy viable and applicable and I don't remember many people expressing objections.

Khalith
3rd Feb 2015, 09:34
The problem with the LoK connection (in my opinion) is that the past games were story focused single player games with absolutely no multiplayer whatsoever and that Nosgoth is about as drastic a deviation from that as you can get. As a result it leads to a disconnect of sorts where the newest game in the franchise isn't anything that the LoK fans would ever expect or even request, using myself as an example, if I learned they were making a new LoK game and adding a multiplayer component... my immediate feedback would be scrap it immediately and put every resource available in to making an awesome single player campaign.

One of my gripes is when campaign modes are shortened or butchered as a result of multiplayer development, I've never been huge on multiplayer, I've always preferred single player story focused RPG's with a sense of real progression and character growth in both narrative and character abilities in gameplay. Even in multiplayer games, I prefer the raid style of MMO's where me and a bunch of players get together and kill the giant monsters that drop the best gear which we use to fight the next giant monster for the next best gear. The fun for it coming from seeing my character get shiny new stuff and mastering new strategies and mechanics that the devs throw at me.

As far as Nosgoth goes, I do not think the connection hurts it. For one, the game is good enough to stand on it's own, it doesn't need the LoK name tacked on to be good, though if it didn't have the connection there is a very high probability I would have never even heard of this game. Two, the connection really serves to just give us some context on the combat that's going on. All games have some sort of lore thrown in to give us an idea of what exactly is going on and more background for the characters we're playing, but that's about it. Without a single player mode, the lore bits are just kind of there, fun to read but not really relevant to the gameplay. As such, I don't think the LoK connection hurts Nosgoth at all, I think it helps it.

Consider this, if it hadn't been for the LoK connection, we would have never gotten the evolved skins which look awesome even if you aren't in to the lore. Without the LoK connection, we'd have never gotten the lore posts that told us exactly what happened to the rest of Raziel's clan which I appreciate because I am in to the lore. My greatest hope is that Nosgoth will bring enough interest back to the franchise that we get a new single player focused story driven game that finishes Kain's tale and the future of Nosgoth even as the war continues in this game.

Ysanoire
3rd Feb 2015, 09:47
All games have some sort of lore thrown in to give us an idea of what exactly is going on and more background for the characters we're playing, but that's about it. Without a single player mode, the lore bits are just kind of there, fun to read but not really relevant to the gameplay. As such, I don't think the LoK connection hurts Nosgoth at all, I think it helps it.

Yeah, I feel the same way. Firstly, Nosgoth is one of the coolest fantasy worlds ever conceived. I can't imagine what this game WOULD have looked like if it weren't based on LoK, but I imagine it would be... much more generic (some people say it is generic compared to LoK, but that's another story).

Secondly, for those of us who do know the games, the background makes the game and lore just a little bit more alive. I have to admit, I'm not as mad about LoK as I used to be 10 years ago, right now I care more about Nosgoth being a good MP experience, but being able to visit Nosgoth again is pretty cool.

I might not be here if it weren't for LoK since I used to ONLY play SP games.

And now excuse me while I listen to some Ozar Midrashim and Ariel's Lament.

Vampmaster
3rd Feb 2015, 10:45
As others have already said, Nosgoth wouldn't have gotten nearly as much publicity if not for the Legacy of Kain connections. I don't think the lore has has held back the gameplay at all. For example, the ranged vs melee was never even a concept in the Legacy of Kain games. It was a brand new thing that Psyonix wanted to add just for this game. If anything, the lore will potentially keep the gameplay from being exactly like other team PvP games. It doesn't limit options, it inspires new ideas. For example the capture the flag mode that was mentioned. Sure, you could have it exactly the same as other games, but when the motivations of the characters are taken into account, you can come up with a completely new take on that game mode, such as having the flag be a pupating elder vampire that's actually a threat if it wakes up. Surely lore inspired ideas like that make a change from same old thing every other game does. Even if you don't like my idea, there could be countless to choose from.

Visually speaking as well, a game that just looked exactly like other games, won't get as much attention as one with the original inspirations that have all come from the lore. I don't know if some of you are only interested in bragging rights and prize money and being spotted by talent scouts, but there are plenty others who also enjoy the context behind the characters they are playing as they can imagine the results of their win playing out in the story. I mean it's unlikely that players would choose a game like this purely for it's lore, but any point in the game's favor is only going to bring in more people. If your concern is that players who are interested in the lore won't be any good at the game, that's completely unwarranted as well.

shinros
3rd Feb 2015, 13:41
I'm just like you, I haven't played a single LoK game, but when I first saw Nosgoth on YouTube I knew this game was made for me.

However, when it comes to the connection with the old lore, I really don't feel like it hinders the game at all. If anything, I think it makes it better. I, personally, enjoyed discovering a new universe and reading on lore and finding out all the connections. I like the setting and the background that previous games have given to Nosgoth.

When it comes to game design we've seen developers say that they want to stay true to the series, but I don't feel like it has a negative impact. A lot of hardcore LoK fans have already expressed their concerns here and there about how some classes or their abilities don't entirely represent the clan the way they would expect. But then again - the fact that developers are working with a timeline of the series that has not been touched gives them the freedom to come up with new things, for as long as they stay relevant and linked. Look at the Summoner for example. As far as I know (not a lore fan) Melchahim were never known for practising dark magic. But in the timeline that this game is set in, a lore post made this fantasy viable and applicable and I don't remember many people expressing objections.

I am going to be that guy but during their prime the Melchahim were known for necromancy and blood magic confirmed by Daniel Cabuco, someone asked on his forums what the clans were specialized in and he pretty much made a list. Hence why I suspect that. developers chose that direction for the Melchahim.

lets not forget in soul reaver the clans are now devolving so they are losing abilities that they may have been able to use with a clear head. I don't expect someone who is mentally broken to be casting magical spells.

Jallford
3rd Feb 2015, 15:20
Yeah, I feel the same way. Firstly, Nosgoth is one of the coolest fantasy worlds ever conceived. I can't imagine what this game WOULD have looked like if it weren't based on LoK, but I imagine it would be... much more generic (some people say it is generic compared to LoK, but that's another story).

Secondly, for those of us who do know the games, the background makes the game and lore just a little bit more alive. I have to admit, I'm not as mad about LoK as I used to be 10 years ago, right now I care more about Nosgoth being a good MP experience, but being able to visit Nosgoth again is pretty cool.

I might not be here if it weren't for LoK since I used to ONLY play SP games.

And now excuse me while I listen to some Ozar Midrashim and Ariel's Lament.

Totally agree, I definitely wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the LoK aspect. I don't think it pushes people away, it draws in longtime fans of the series and the basic premise is fairly easy to follow from the summaries in-game.

Even if we are all walking straight into the Hylden's trap.

Rago600
3rd Feb 2015, 17:59
I like Both !

The only thing i wish for is to have a more "Spider-like" Deciver´s.

Gameplay is still good, thou

Ygdrasel
3rd Feb 2015, 21:14
...What?

Why would the LoK name hurt the game, exactly? Because people didn't like those games? If those people have much sense about them, they'd see this is a completely different kind of game and that would become a non-issue.

Mayhzon
3rd Feb 2015, 21:25
I don't think it has a negative impact. I mean, sure *some* players will feel betrayed because this is a Multiplayer game and the Singleplayer aspect to it got canned by the publisher (which is a little souring), but this game still is decent and I don't think it's hurt by the lore backing it up.

If anything, it may help the developers develop interesting ideas and give them food for thought on the game balance. I think it's a really useful catalyst for the developers and it makes their job easier because they now have a basic premise and background to work with. I mean, I doubt we'd have a game with an background as interesting and grim as this one if we had no LoK as background. Just look at all the recent trends in multiplayer games with similiar mechanics to this one - They're often cartoony in style and have comical backdrops.

The_Hylden
3rd Feb 2015, 21:32
Indeed, the world, setting, nature of the characters, motivations for the war, the differences in the vampire's look, histories for why the human classes are specialized as they are -- this would all have been different without the LoK influence. There would be no Nosgoth without LoK. It would be something totally different. Even if it were a vampire vs. humans game, there's no fantasy world with the types of vampires that are the Legacy of Kain vampires. It's a uniqueness that makes this game special.

Wolf_the_Legend
3rd Feb 2015, 22:15
don´t let the lore limit the amount of classes!!! ... bring out 2 classes every year and new skills for existing ones and I'm good with the lore ^^

Sanguise23
4th Feb 2015, 14:59
don´t let the lore limit the amount of classes!!! ... bring out 2 classes every year and new skills for existing ones and I'm good with the lore ^^

lore shouldnt limit classes tyrant of clan turelim may just be one of the turelim classes

RainaAudron
11th Feb 2015, 10:38
I don´t think I´d be as interested to play the game if it was not part of the LOK series, really. It has a solid gameplay, but the reason that it caught my attention was primarily bec. it was set in the Nosgoth world. It adds much more depth to the game than many people realize (you have to play the older games to fully appreciate it though). I think it would only be enriching if there were in-game story backgrounds for each of the clans to read liie in the form of Dark Chronicle, as seen in previous games.


don´t let the lore limit the amount of classes!!! ... bring out 2 classes every year and new skills for existing ones and I'm good with the lore ^^
You can´t really go over the amount of the set vampire legions. They were only six. However, you can add more sub-class types for each of the clans, as their names like "reavers, summoners, tyrants," etc., refer to one portion of the each vampire clan army and we can have more classes of vampires specializing in slightly different arts within a clan.