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View Full Version : so now that global cooldowns work



absinthesize
30th Jan 2015, 07:04
what do you guys think?

i didnt realize this happened but thought there was a bug at first lol

apparently now special attacks have to suffer the global cooldown, wich means no back to back casts


i feel this immensely, multiple times today ive died trying to acctivate an ability only to be met with...nothing..then dead.

spam the button? dont matter...die before GCD is up, thats how fast players can kill you in this game...it makes initiating vs a decent team pretty much suicide as you wont be able to use a defensive ability right after.

ill try to give it some time tho, see how it pans out, but kneejerk reaction..displeased.

Razaiim
30th Jan 2015, 07:17
The Global cooldowns have always been there. I think they just updated the UI to show it on skills

absinthesize
30th Jan 2015, 07:45
corey [developer] 6 hours ago
We fixed a bug with this patch that was allowing abilities to bypass the global cooldown.

If it's an overall negative change, we can consider reverting it.

this was posted on steam forums

--Ram--
30th Jan 2015, 13:44
This is probably why berserk into charge takes so long now. Not really enjoying that change. Not sure of many other occasions where you cast back to back abilities that didn't already have a global cooldown.

Psyonix_Corey
30th Jan 2015, 21:55
Looking at tweaking it. It's back to how it was intended, but clearly people liked the "unintended" version.

absinthesize
30th Jan 2015, 23:06
its ultimately up to you guys. I just know it feels very jarring. trying to get used to it but its difficult when some abilities really relied
on being chained together quickly.

maybe new strategies willd evelop?

its interesting because i feel like it cripples my infect+shroud combo

but apparently backstab has a slightly longer animation or the gcd starts at adifferent point because i feel like i dont wait as long to hit illusions when using backstab.

TendrilSavant
30th Jan 2015, 23:44
Looking at tweaking it. It's back to how it was intended, but clearly people liked the "unintended" version.
So what does this mean exactly? Are you considering removing/shortening vampire global cooldowns? By the way, I'm fine with the fixed version (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=151549). But, it will take some more game time to see how it has an overall affect.

Psyonix_Corey
31st Jan 2015, 00:35
So what does this mean exactly? Are you considering removing/shortening vampire global cooldowns? By the way, I'm fine with the fixed version (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=151549). But, it will take some more game time to see how it has an overall affect.

Considering removing GCD while we consider alternatives. It's there to mitigate combos (like Dive Bomb->Puncture, etc.) but not prevent activating buffs like Enrage, etc.

Razaiim
31st Jan 2015, 00:58
Considering removing GCD while we consider alternatives. It's there to mitigate combos (like Dive Bomb->Puncture, etc.) but not prevent activating buffs like Enrage, etc.

Perhaps remove the GCD, but for skills like Dive-bomb, jump etc... where comboing is heavy, exaggerate the recovery animation, but make it cancel-able by rolling. Shouldn't this allow abilities that don't have activation animations to trigger while reducing combos?

Hyperspeed1000
31st Jan 2015, 07:14
How about a global cooldown that is not so long...for example 0.5s instead of 1s . Half a second is enough time dodge an ability like puncture after divebomb but short too notice when you go immediately into charge after you activated your enrage skill.

absinthesize
31st Jan 2015, 10:55
if you want to go against certain combos then i guess i understand.

maybe just against certain combos that are pretty much gauranteed.

like tyrants leap+grab

or sentinels dive+puncture

before putting GCD back these were basically impossible to avoid (or i never figured out how, you avoided the first part basically...or suffered both)

but cetain things like being able to activate DEFENSIVE abilities im not sure if should have a gcd.

lBiteyl
1st Feb 2015, 00:54
I think it's important to realize that game play functioned best without this fix implemented. If there are some combinations of abilities that seem to work too well then it would be easier to increase those cooldown timers or tweak their animations. The fix didn't really effect humans in anyway and only gave headaches to vampire play.

I think the Tyrant threads highlight how much of a pain it brought upon them. The speed of the fights and combat felt like it functioned better before this fix was implemented.

Cristari
1st Feb 2015, 22:23
Considering removing GCD while we consider alternatives. It's there to mitigate combos (like Dive Bomb->Puncture, etc.) but not prevent activating buffs like Enrage, etc.

It doesn't mitigate Dive Bomb -> Puncture one bit!

cmstache
1st Feb 2015, 22:56
It does mitigate it some, but because of the range of puncture it's less obvious. And more to the point, it shouldn't. The sentinel has been nerfed more than anything else in the game:

- General sentinel flight is less mobile than it once was
- Kidnap and abducts are much less consistent than they used to be and are much less effective
- Human fall damage has been reduced, then increased, then reduced, etc but still less dmg than it originally was
- Dive bomb angles are reduced
- Dive bomb damage has been reduced
- Puncture auto-aim has been significantly reduced
- Puncture damage has been reduced
- Wing Flap stun duration has been nerfed
- Back in the early stages of testing all vampire attack animations were changed. All vampires became more reliable, except for the sentinel, which has ever since had more hit detection issues than it originally did.
- You can no longer cancel flight after dropping a player and must force cancellation by flying into the ground, and reducing your damage from kidnaps and abducts.
- You can no longer chain all your abilities at once.
-Countless others that I probably don't remember atm.


In fact, I think the only skill that hasn't been nerfed is take-off which received minor extra mobility. Granted, some of these changed were needed, some weren't (IMO), however, anyone who says that the sentinel needs to be any harder to play either doesn't understand how to play as a team, doesn't counter-play him, or just doesn't understand what's going on.

ApollosBow
1st Feb 2015, 23:10
Why dont we just give the vampire half their health while were at it?.....seriously though, nerfing combo'ed abilities more? Dont do it....................and the sentinel has been crippled enough, leave the poor bastard alone, people need more practice in aiming and concentrating fire.

TendrilSavant
2nd Feb 2015, 00:28
In fact, I think the only skill that hasn't been nerfed is take-off which received minor extra mobility.

You're forgetting the Z-falloff removal to counter Take-offs dominance and the ceiling thump when indoors. So yes, everything on the Sentinel has been nerfed at some point... and still beginner players have a hard time taking down Sentinels.

There's been a lot of nerfs overall to both sides over the development of this game. Personally, I don't like the constant number tweaks and would prefer core mechanical balances but I guess I'm in the minority there.


I also know I'm in the minority when it comes to this bug fix. I don't want this bux fix removed. The game felt too spammy recently, vampire gameplay felt too reliant on linking abilities and only needing one or two melee attacks to get the kill.

In my opinion, IF you remove GCD then the game needs to change in either of two ways to compensate for it to not turn into a spamfest:

Make warm up and recovery animations more pronounced and un-cancelable. This is currently why Tyrant is so hard to master compared to other classes; but isn't it possible that it's the other classes that should conform to a more rigid animation system rather than him needing less restrictions?
Replace GCD with an ability specific "combo" cooldown and make recovery animations less important. So Enrage could have a 0sec specific "combo" CD for linking with other abilities and maybe abilities that focus on CC could have longer "combo" CD of 2-3 seconds.

Of course, this should also be considered on the human side.

absinthesize
2nd Feb 2015, 02:55
@TendrilSavant

i agree all but impossible to avoid combos shouldnt exist (if you hit with one attack, you shouldnt be gauranteed to land the other)

but beyond that, i greatly disagree with warm up/rcovery animations being increased...it would throw balance off so severe they would need to noticeably buff vampires to compensate, or noticeably nerf humans. even then, many vampire specials would be deemed useless.

now ability specific combo cooldowns i understand, would make the game harder to learn for some people, but not by a ton either.