PDA

View Full Version : Controller at massive Disadvantage



Mambo123
27th Jan 2015, 21:08
You know, I don't even know why game developers decide to add controller support for all these competitive multiplayer games if they never bother to put in aim assists.

People who try to play with a 360 controller may as well be playing with 1 hand tied behind their backs.

It's especially worse playing as the humans.

Morigh
27th Jan 2015, 23:05
Putting in aim assist is essentially committing this game to suicide, There is no way to tell if the controller is truly a controller, or a program spoofing it and is emulating the controller outputs from keyboard and mouse inputs essentially giving people near aimbot that is undetectable.

Vampmaster
27th Jan 2015, 23:06
The controller isn't meant to be used. :p

Seriously though, it does need changes. Certain vampire attacks such as infect would be a lot better if they always aimed in the direction the camera in pointing and the wall climbing should work in the direction the player is moving regardless of where the camera is looking. The way it is now makes the controls very unpredictable.

PencileyePirate
27th Jan 2015, 23:36
Controller support is added so that people who really don't want to use mouse/kb can have an alternative, but it doesn't make sense to implement a handicap (aim-assist) just because some players prefer hardware with less precision.

@Vampmaster - I don't agree, attacks/movement should always go where player POV is aimed.

Vampmaster
27th Jan 2015, 23:40
Controller support is added so that people who really don't want to use mouse/kb can have an alternative, but it doesn't make sense to implement a handicap (aim-assist) just because some players prefer hardware with less precision.

@Vampmaster - I don't agree, attacks/movement should always go where player POV is aimed.

They don't always go where player POV is aimed with the gamepad at the moment. Only the check for climbing does. With the mouse, you straffe sideways and step backwards while still looking forwards. Vampires using the gamepad will turn and face left, right and back regardless of where the camera is pointing.

I prefer it that way, EXCEPT for the special abilities and only if the check for climbing matches the direction the character is pointing.

PencileyePirate
28th Jan 2015, 00:36
Ah, I see. If its gamepad-only behavior then I don't care all that much : p

BR0sephStalin
28th Jan 2015, 02:43
Of course you are going to be at a massive disadvantage, you are using a controller in a PC game. Did you expect to go pro or something lmfao? Sorry for not babying your poor taste in peripherals.

--Ram--
28th Jan 2015, 04:09
I don't know why people bother to complain when using an obviously inferior controller by choice when everyone with a computer owns a keyboard and mouse. Feel like being special or playing Nosgoth on the couch - use a controller. Feel like actually winning and not being a free meal - use keyboard and mouse.

calypso-694
28th Jan 2015, 06:32
I don't know why people bother to complain when using an obviously inferior controller by choice when everyone with a computer owns a keyboard and mouse. Feel like being special or playing Nosgoth on the couch - use a controller. Feel like actually winning and not being a free meal - use keyboard and mouse.

that's a bit harsh and biased. I use a gamepad sometimes, and yeah I hook it up to my tv sometimes and just chill. thing with a gamepad is you have to turn your sensitivity really low in order to get a proper aim and not like lighting. yes this game is primarily meant for mouse and keyboard but a gamepad isn't inferior. loads of these games use gamepads IE left 4 dead? console and PC and its the same experience. so as not to start a war here, Yes the gamepad stuff should get tweaked a bit, mainly the camera. the PC uses a locked camera for aiming where as when using a gamepad you get a free camera, meaning you can rotate 360 degrees. if they could make an option to set it to free or locked, all the other problems people have, or at least think they have will pretty much end.

absinthesize
28th Jan 2015, 07:41
there should be zero aim assist on controller

this game works great with a mouse and keyboard, maybe you should get out of the console mindset and use a superior option?

sorry, im really not nice on this issue, controlls<keyboard+mouse, plain and simple. dont like it? there is a lot of REALITIES people dont like, its life.

FireWorks_
28th Jan 2015, 08:30
Play long enough and your MMR takes care of it... eventually... hopefully...

Sanguise23
28th Jan 2015, 13:56
there should be zero aim assist on controller

this game works great with a mouse and keyboard, maybe you should get out of the console mindset and use a superior option?

sorry, im really not nice on this issue, controlls<keyboard+mouse, plain and simple. dont like it? there is a lot of REALITIES people dont like, its life.

I have to agree with this, i love controllers way more comfortable to play with but never on a pc game esp. one like this
mouse, KB > controller

Vampmaster
28th Jan 2015, 14:12
KB/M > Gamepad = Fair Fight? Maybe some of you are concerned that overcompensating could make the gamepad into the superior option instead, but it's not coming across that way and sounds more like "We like that it's unbalanced because it happens to be in our favor."

Mambo123
28th Jan 2015, 15:18
that's a bit harsh and biased. I use a gamepad sometimes, and yeah I hook it up to my tv sometimes and just chill. thing with a gamepad is you have to turn your sensitivity really low in order to get a proper aim and not like lighting. yes this game is primarily meant for mouse and keyboard but a gamepad isn't inferior. loads of these games use gamepads IE left 4 dead? console and PC and its the same experience. so as not to start a war here, Yes the gamepad stuff should get tweaked a bit, mainly the camera. the PC uses a locked camera for aiming where as when using a gamepad you get a free camera, meaning you can rotate 360 degrees. if they could make an option to set it to free or locked, all the other problems people have, or at least think they have will pretty much end.

The problem with turning your sensitivity right down is that there is only 1 sensitivity option which affects both your aiming speed and turn around speed, so it takes you 5 minutes to do a 180 when someone is behind you. GTA has different sensitivity options for turn around speed and for aiming while looking down the sight speed.

I can't stress enough how bad it it playing as a human on the game pad right now. It's not overly terrible as a vampire, but as a human you're basically a sitting duck.

Celeress
28th Jan 2015, 16:26
loads of these games use gamepads IE left 4 dead? console and PC and its the same experience.
But.. Left 4 Dead is also a console game.

I understand people just want to chill on their couch or whatever and play Nosgoth like it's a console game, but seeing how it was designed solely for PC unlike other games that are actually on both consoles AND PC. I haven't personally tried using a controller on Nosgoth but I wouldn't even bother anyways because it's a PC game and I'll play it the way it's meant to be played. The controller support is probably primitive at best but is just there to provide an alternative.

Also, where's my keyboard/mouse support for consoles?

--Ram--
28th Jan 2015, 17:28
KB/M > Gamepad = Fair Fight? Maybe some of you are concerned that overcompensating could make the gamepad into the superior option instead, but it's not coming across that way and sounds more like "We like that it's unbalanced because it happens to be in our favor."

Making controllers a superior option would require some fairly godlike aim assist. Nothing is unbalanced because 99.9% of players use a keyboard and mouse.

Vampmaster
28th Jan 2015, 18:03
Making controllers a superior option would require some fairly godlike aim assist.

And like I was saying, that would be a legitimate problem if it was what anyone had actually proposed or if the developers inadvertently OVERcompensated for the gamepads limitations instead of just evening them out. It's a risk that might be too high to take, but certainly not the intended goal.

--Ram--
28th Jan 2015, 18:44
And like I was saying, that would be a legitimate problem if it was what anyone had actually proposed or if the developers inadvertently OVERcompensated for the gamepads limitations instead of just evening them out. It's a risk that might be too high to take, but certainly not the intended goal.

Regardless, evening out the difference via aim assist (which is what the OP implied should happen) is a slippery slope not worth worrying about, because there is no issue other than the one people can easily elect not to create for themselves.

Mambo123
28th Jan 2015, 18:56
Well it obviously is worth worrying about if they even bothered to put it in there in the first place. If they're just going to leave it the way it is then they may as well just take it out all together.

The developers however should not feel swayed by a few mouthy little kids who think that because they use a Mouse and keyboard, it somehow makes them superior and deserve an unfair advantage.

--Ram--
28th Jan 2015, 19:33
because they use a Mouse and keyboard, it somehow makes them superior and deserve an unfair advantage.

Nope just means they have made a sensible choice.

absinthesize
28th Jan 2015, 20:26
Well it obviously is worth worrying about if they even bothered to put it in there in the first place. If they're just going to leave it the way it is then they may as well just take it out all together.

The developers however should not feel swayed by a few mouthy little kids who think that because they use a Mouse and keyboard, it somehow makes them superior and deserve an unfair advantage.

oh stop being dramatic

nobody here wants to gain a unfair advantage over someone

its just that the aim assist required to be put into the game to make controllers even passibly even could be abused to the point where it WOULD create a unfair advantage in matches by people who fool the game into thinking they are using a controller but are not, to get that aim assist.

the mere fact that a controller requires aim assist to be on par should tell you that keyboard+mouse is superior

rseifert
29th Jan 2015, 15:23
Been playing using a PS3 controller since I picked up the game. I don't think aim assist is needed. However, the sensitivity settings to turn the camera and to aim could use some serious love. I play with the sensitivity all the way up so that it doesnt take me a half hour to turn around. I think fixing this wouldn't in any way "break the game". Also, while I don't think aiming is difficult as humans, I cannot tell you how many Vampire autos I have missed because the opponent roll dodged and I couldnt turn the camera and attack properly. Same goes for some abilities (aka when you line up a perfect backstab then go flying past them right into their crosshairs, this is one of the funnier ways I've died, and also a reason I rarely play deceiver). I feel like the locked camera attacking could be incorporated here, or simply add an aiming reticle for the vampires like there is for humans, so you know if you're looking 45 degrees in the wrong direction. I feel like neither of these options add unfair advantages. For other controller users, all I can say is play Tyrant and use aoe so you only have to land 1-2 attacks after spamming abilities.

absinthesize
29th Jan 2015, 20:15
@rseifert

that much i can totally agree with

rseifert
30th Jan 2015, 17:00
Played a few games yesterday using keyboard & mouse. It is game changing. I don't care about the aiming being more precise, but the ability to rotate the camera at a reasonable speed and to land abilities/autos as vampires is infinitely easier. If only I didn't have the keyboard mechanics of a parrot I would adapt the keyboard immediately. But I feel like bringing the controller sensitivities and ability/auto aim up to the mouse & board counterparts is fair and not overly design intensive. Any devs out there have any insight on if something like this is being worked on?

absinthesize
30th Jan 2015, 23:11
Played a few games yesterday using keyboard & mouse. It is game changing. I don't care about the aiming being more precise, but the ability to rotate the camera at a reasonable speed and to land abilities/autos as vampires is infinitely easier. If only I didn't have the keyboard mechanics of a parrot I would adapt the keyboard immediately. But I feel like bringing the controller sensitivities and ability/auto aim up to the mouse & board counterparts is fair and not overly design intensive. Any devs out there have any insight on if something like this is being worked on?

the controllers auto aim is already up to par with mouse and keyboard

this is why controllers are inferior, they require more autoaim to be on par, in other words, they are handicapped.

but it should not be increased at all because as said more then once in this thread, it can be abused by third party programs.

the other changes would be fine i think.

and if your not used to it, it will require a time of learning, i suggest you actually learn it instead of going "im not good at it so cater to what im good at pls"

my 2 cents anyways <3

Guardian1uk
2nd Feb 2015, 16:31
The fact your saying the controller needs aim assist tells you right then and there that it's the wrong option, period.
While I can appreciate some people like using controllers, obliously mouse and keyboard are and always have been better just because of the sheer precision you can get on them, however on a beat em up, obliously the controller is the right option.
IE some games are just designed for one set of control hardware, and trying to forcefuly use sub par hardware for the game still means not enjoying the game as much as you could be.
or to put it another way, use the right tool for the right job.

SladeFTW
3rd Feb 2015, 04:58
Just to point out that, you are asking an AIM ASSIST in the game in which your score depends only on your AIMING SKILLS and reflexes?