PDA

View Full Version : Flash point seems to favor the Hunters



matsuBlack
27th Jan 2015, 13:10
I do like this game, ...but. I have noticed that the human faction has a strong advantage when they stay grouped up. Getting into melee range, when a human team is all together, is like bum-rushing a minigun turret.

In my experience so far, Flash Point galvanizes the humans into their best strategic formation. While in the case of the Vamps, you want to get in there as quick as possible to put up resistance, but since you are dying one by one, you're respawning one by one then engaging the point one by one. Obviously with good coordination this is less of a problem.

It just seems imbalanced because one team naturally need not strategize while the other must coordinate to even compete. Both teams should be presented with an equivalent risk/reward conundrum, not just one. Does anyone else find this to be the case?

I find death match to be more balanced because players could be spread out or centralized, and they can coordinate their strategy to suit the field. In CTP there is one goal, get to the point NOW! Which is fine for most games, but when your system is based on Ranged vs. Melee, you have to find batter ways to compensate for that asymmetry.

mauvo58
27th Jan 2015, 13:19
It's generally agreed that humans have the edge when they play in a coordinated way. But this is balanced because each team plays as Humans and Vampires. Flashpoint certainly encourages Humans to stay together, but it forces them to try to hold non-optimal locations. Humans can't just camp the most defensible spot. And to be fair, Flashpoint doesn't force Vampires to trickle in 1 at a time.

Humans were weakened a little in Flashpoint in the most recent patch, their spawn time went from 12 to 15 seconds. Let's see where it goes.

Nosgoth is not pay to win... you can unlock a new class every 5 levels. So by level 20 you will have them all unlocked. Also Reavers are one of the most utilised Vampires in high-level play, so they're not underpowered.

HDHaZmY
28th Jan 2015, 09:48
++

I agree with mauvo that some points are actually bad positions for humans, other are maybe better. But this can occour in TDM too, nothing special.

The real problem is ( I think ), that when you enter a team fight at a point, you kill 1 human very fast and the you fight the other 3 for...hm maybe 20 seconds maximum? I don't know, but then they are all dead....OHH WAIT, THE FIRST GUY RESPAWNED RIGHT AT ANOTHER POINT...AND THEY ALMOST ALREADY CAPTURED IT

I think THAT'S unfair, humans respawning to another point while you are still fighting with them on the first point.

matsuBlack
29th Jan 2015, 02:01
That's good to know. I want to love this game. But, I hate the way that most free to play models suck the fun out of the game. I'm glad that the Reaver remains competitive. While I wish they'd fix the charge attack, I like the way the Reaver handles.

HoopleDoople
29th Jan 2015, 03:30
I only played a few rounds of Flashpoint but my impression was that the location of the active capture points was a huge factor in success. If the two points were close together the vampires had a significantly improved chance of preventing captures. If the points were spread out it was too easy for the humans to either capture one together before vampires could group up for an assault or split up and leave the vampires too little time to defend both.

The one vampire that stood out as significantly more useful was the Sentinel as his flying provided him the necessary mobility for crossing the map constantly. However, this drives Humans ever more to Scouts (already a disproportionately used class in Deathmatch) to counter Sentinels. The logical next step would be to mix in Deceivers to take on the Scouts... if Deceivers could hoof it fast enough.

I would recommend looking into enhancing vampire mobility - perhaps by boosting their speed temporarily after spawning if no humans are nearby or giving vampires a limited sprint ability.

Glitchfull
29th Jan 2015, 03:38
Why? It's because the lead thought is "What do we do to restrict the vampires so they aren't strong?" and then do little to the humans. They do very little to put the humans more in line with the vampires and do their hardest to restrict everything about the vampires.

TDM isn't better either though. It honestly just highlights more why humans are just straight up better than the vampires in a coordinated game. Not to mention how bad TDM doesn't fit the game to begin with when there are things like vampires being able to get a kill and then hiding on the roofs for the rest of the round so they can play on their terms during their human round. There's a reason why no legitimate team has considered playing this game outside of amateurs.

They don't need to nerf humans honestly, they just need to change how the game plays. Force the humans to constantly move, they end up better when they are allowed to camp, so force them to move. This actually allows the melee vs ranged mechanic to work by letting the melee use the only thing they could have an edge with, which is hit and run, which also does not work in both TDM and Flashpoint. 1 flag is the perfect mode for that. 10-15 minute rounds, humans go for the flag, vampires defend, unlimited amounts of flag caps, and whoever gets the most flag caps win.

Instead of a game mode that works well with the mechanics of the game, they gave us a cheap re-purposed siege mode that very few play.

This game will not be taken seriously if TDM is the default mode, but it will be very hard to convince anyone to take the game seriously with flashpoint as the default as well.

Will we see a push by the developers for an actual new and well developed game mode to be the standard? My bet is not very likely. They have very long development cycles and don't really release much at the end of them either. Seems also they would rather have the poorer than generic third person shooter aspect of the game be a bigger highlight than the vampires who are, honestly, the only reason the game had much potential to begin with.

--Ram--
29th Jan 2015, 04:34
I would recommend looking into enhancing vampire mobility - perhaps by boosting their speed temporarily after spawning if no humans are nearby or giving vampires a limited sprint ability.

Can't agree, vamps already move around fast enough and scouts are by no mean a hard counter to sentinels anyway. The only thing that bugs me is when clearing a group of humans allows them to teleport (spawn) across the map and cap while vamps who won the fight waste time traversing and setting up. Humans should have at least a small traverse to make to reach the point after dying, allowing vamps to potentially engage them on the way/before they reach optimal positions to defend.

matsuBlack
29th Jan 2015, 05:35
They don't need to nerf humans honestly, they just need to change how the game plays. Force the humans to constantly move, they end up better when they are allowed to camp, so force them to move. This actually allows the melee vs ranged mechanic to work by letting the melee use the only thing they could have an edge with, which is hit and run, which also does not work in both TDM and Flashpoint.


I like the way you put it. But at this point there's not much in there that they can fix but stats. Tweaking damage, defense and/0r movement speed would be better than nothing. I want to keep my fingers crossed for a new game mode. If done right that could give the game it's signature edge. Or at least it can make it's current edge actually cut.

I feel that the fun of being a Vampire in this game is ambushing your enemies. Which makes a lot of narrative sense. But in the same narrative thread, the rock to it's scissors is obviously camping up. Insofar as I've played, I haven't come across the conceptual scissors. But I have yet to really master the other classes. I'll bet that as more people do, the game should get more diverse. Opening up different dynamics that aren't clear right now.

Also, on that Glitchfull's response. While I like everything he said, one thing gets me. It's not that I'm bothered by you or that you said it. But, moreso that this is probably how a lot of people feel.


...a bigger highlight than the vampires who are, honestly, the only reason the game had much potential to begin with

I'd hoped that this game's potential would be in reviving the Legacy of Kain. In the chats and the gaming community I've noticed this general dismissal or outright lack of notice that this is the newest iteration to one of the coolest lost franchises in gaming history. Outside of the choice of gameplay, I'll admit that they did right by the source material. It mostly fits the canon, the visuals and the music evoke Soul Reaver 2. I hate that if this fails we may not get a proper LOK game.

absinthesize
29th Jan 2015, 11:53
ive only done two matches in flashpoint

the first one i didnt know what i was doing

the second one i figured it out finally after a couple minutes

ran default hunter and deceiver (still figuring out how to use shroud)

i dont remember the first game other then my team won

the second one...started as human...went 6-0

then wetn vamp, went humans only got 1 point.