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absinthesize
23rd Jan 2015, 22:59
I understand it a bit. deceiver counters , scout counters sentinals, sentinals counter alchemists, alchemists counter tyrants

but my question is hunter/prophet/reaver/deceiver

what "counters" these?

I ask because While i dont do that well with reaver/alchemist (i know why for alchemist, aim issue, dont know why i do poorly with reaver) hunter/deceiver mainly feels like real all rounders to me.

seriously ill stay and watch character selection if two people dont pick a hunter i pick one cuz it feels THAT POWERFUL to me.

and deceiver, i havent found a time when a deceiver is a bad choice. im still running the default setup.

So basically lets break it down

What counters the deceiver?

what counters the reaver?

what counters the prophet?

what counters the hunter?

note: im also, just to be clear, not asking for any nerfs, i dont find hunter/deceiver carrying a team for me...its just when i play them i never face a team comp where i feel like i should be switching. with tyrant its easy...lot of alchs? time to switch, when playing sentinal, lot of scouts? time to switch...easy.

HoopleDoople
24th Jan 2015, 03:25
Nosgoth isn't really designed around the concept of counter-classes in a way that a game like Team Fortress 2 is. The only thing approaching a "hard" counter is the Sentinel against an Alchemist, as the Alchemist cannot damage a Sentinel that is flying too far away (and has a very hard time damaging a flying Sentinel that is in range). But the Alchemist is far from helpless if the Sentinel is grounded - a Sentinel on the ground is just as vulnerable to the Alchemist as any other Vampire (if not more so).

The Scout and Deceiver soft counter the Sentinel and Scout, respectively. These classes have a definite edge in the matchups, but it is far from unusual for a Sentinel to kill a Scout or a Scout to kill a Deceiver. I would also argue that the Alchemist soft counters the Deceiver - her AoE causes problems for a fragile class dependent on stealth and illusions.

Against the other classes (Hunter, Prophet, Reaver, and Tyrant) there isn't a clear best option for countering them. The optimal class is highly dependent on the player loadouts and the specific situation. For example, a Scout with a Warbow causes massive problems for a jump Tyrant, but a charge Tyrant has little problems with the Warbow Scout.

This is my highly subjective personal opinion of which class I would consider the best (by a slight margin) against each of these classes:

Against Hunter - Tyrant
Hunter can't put up too big of damage on a charging/jumping Tyrant unless the Tyrant is really obvious. Knockdown, stagger, and/or throw help reduce Hunter DPS at close range. Ignore Pain can break you out of bolas and survive explosive arrows/grenades which wastes the ability for the Hunter.

Against Prophet - Reaver
This is probably the class with the least well defined counter. Tyrant is too big a target for Prophet abilities. Sentinel will take a lot of damage from the accurate Prophet while flying. If Deceiver gets in close it can really wreck the Prophet by making it hard for him to land anything, but should anything land the Deceiver isn't going to last terribly long. I believe Reaver has the best shot as Evasion will let you avoid anything but one of the curses. If you're going to use a pounce do your best to target the Prophet or you'll likely be eating a hex very shortly.

Against Tyrant - Prophet
While Warbow Scout is best vs jump Tyrant I believe the Prophet has the best overall success vs Tyrants. Hex Shot is great to hit a Tyrant that is jumping (cancels the damaging part of his landing) or just out of charge. In either case the Tyrant should take enough damage he has to pop Ignore Pain and flee or die if he uses a groundslam. Heavy Pistol is probably the best weapon for racking up damage on a Tyrant charging toward or away from you.

Against Reaver - Hunter
Another tough call, but I like the Hunter's ability to rapidly deliver damage up close. Explosive arrows are great at finishing off a Reaver relying on Evasion, while bolas are great for those without Evasion.

SquirrelInDaSky
26th Jan 2015, 18:37
Prophet is great against tyrant indeed. A hexshot disables tyrant's ability to use ignore pain, resulting in free 400 dmg, unlike bola that can be broken easily. A poison bola against an ignore pain tyrant = wasted bola.