PDA

View Full Version : VAMPIRES questions about sentinel and tyrant



Iklozanian
15th Jan 2015, 14:58
All you know about tyrant's charge and marathon and how it's hard to navigate while you run (your mouse like in jelly), and all you know about people, who use special mouses and hotkeys to increase mouse sensitivity when they use that skills (something like "if RMB down - then sensitivity set to 100, if RMB up - sensitivity set to 10"), so here is my first question, if developers ALLOW you to use things like that, so why they made that skill so hard-to-use WITHOUT extra progs (I mean, set sensitivity normal for that skill and all people can use it properly) but IF you CAN'T use such programs (developers specially create this skill that way, so you can't maneuver so easy) then maybe you should punish people for hotkeys and special progs.
And my second question\proposition is Sentinel's Abduct\Kidnap + AIRSTRIKE\TAKEOFF\DIVE BOMB + PUNCTURE = imminent death, more then that, even Abduct\Kidnap + PUNCTURE = imminent death. Here is why:
1. Abduct\Kidnap will took you away from battlefield (your team can't help you, because there are like 3 vamps VS 3 humans, so they busy to fight with their own target), sentinel will drop you somewhere far away from your team (kidnap can drop you almost in the opposite corner of the map) + downfall took like 50% of your heath (battle just begun and you half dead, but your foe still have 100% of health)
2.PUNCTURE will took like 40% of your health (don't forget, that if there some humans too close to each other, you can hit both (or more) of them and do same damage to three-two-four targets), SO Abduct\Kidnap+PUNCTURE leave you without 90% of health, 1-2 hits and you dead (+ sentinel still have one skill in store) (and human can't do nothing with that, even bola knifes or firewall can't save you with that amount of health)
So don't you think that sentinel is too OP, yeah, I know, you will say that he is hard to play, +scout's warbow, hunter's bola etc, but hunter and scout can be easy distract, and what about sentinel - give me some time, and any class could be handle easy-peasy. (of course we talk about good teams)

SilentVirtue
15th Jan 2015, 15:36
As a sentinel player at the highest level of competitive play, the current abilities are not overpowerd, the trick is to poke the sentinel down, and dodge the grab, without the grab the entire situation you mention is over before it begins.

the sentinel has 4 hard counter abilities and is very easy to hit if you are not an alchemist, you need to aim better or dodge the grabs better.

Vampmaster
15th Jan 2015, 15:45
I've always struggled with sentinel. I've been killed by scouts from the other side of the level while moving pretty fast, two hits from a scout can kill me up close because they cancel my attacks and the time taken between the start of the airstrike animation is enough to take me out from full health. If more than one enemy isn't preoccupied, the sentinel won't even get close.

I'm not that good at the scout either, but I think I leveled him up much faster than the sentinel.

Iklozanian
15th Jan 2015, 20:01
As a sentinel player at the highest level of competitive play, the current abilities are not overpowerd, the trick is to poke the sentinel down, and dodge the grab, without the grab the entire situation you mention is over before it begins.

the sentinel has 4 hard counter abilities and is very easy to hit if you are not an alchemist, you need to aim better or dodge the grabs better.

Yeah, dodge 4 sentinels, or even if there only one sentinel - AIRSTRIKE can easy distract scout (if there more then one scout - your team can distract other) + scout need time to full string his bow (and it's IF he use war bow), hex shot can't knock out sentinel, it's just won't let you grab, and bola have recharge time. + Puncture way too fast (almost impossible to dodge) and way too strong, even without fall it's take like 40% of your health, there is NO other such good abil. Good team can easy distract opposite team and buy some time for abduct/kidnap

TheDreamcrusher
17th Jan 2015, 00:19
As a sentinel player at the highest level of competitive play, the current abilities are not overpowerd, the trick is to poke the sentinel down, and dodge the grab, without the grab the entire situation you mention is over before it begins.

the sentinel has 4 hard counter abilities and is very easy to hit if you are not an alchemist, you need to aim better or dodge the grabs better.

The thing is though that if the situation does happen, you're more than likely going to die. I don't know if the sentinel is supposed to be high risk, high reward, but getting hit by Kidnap/Abduct + Puncture pretty much means the sentinel is going to get a kill. It's not like Puncture is easy to dodge either. I'm keeping in mind that this is mostly in pubs with inattentive human team mates, because if they back you up it's much less likely but that's not the typical case.

Khalith
17th Jan 2015, 03:45
I'm keeping in mind that this is mostly in pubs with inattentive human team mates, because if they back you up it's much less likely but that's not the typical case.

Sentinels are the best pubstomping class against humans that aren't covering each other. Against good human teams though the sentinels will be blasted out of the air or CC'd as they dive. Sentinels drop instantly against focus fire with no way to escape, even their escape move leaves them pretty vulnerable.

I will grant you that against a sentinel, a grab to a puncture is a near guaranteed kill if your team doesn't try and cover you. The nice thing about abduct, despite the guaranteed damage, the sentinel usually can't carry you very far so if your teammates are any good, you should be able to get back to them, not to mention, you should save your CC for when the sentinel lands. If he doesn't immediately roll he's usually going to use puncture in my experience.

Cristari
17th Jan 2015, 19:53
When I play against a Sentinal I get grabbed even though the Sentinal is/was no where near me or I was rolling out of it's way. When I play Sentinal I can not grab anyone even if I fly straight through them.

I would also like to know how some people can magically fly millimetres above the ground without coming to a halt, turn in a instant and manage to do so that they can pull 720's (I have seen this!) and still be able to grab people.

Khalith
17th Jan 2015, 19:59
When I play against a Sentinal I get grabbed even though the Sentinal is/was no where near me or I was rolling out of it's way. When I play Sentinal I can not grab anyone even if I fly straight through them.

I would also like to know how some people can magically fly millimetres above the ground without coming to a halt, turn in a instant and manage to do so that they can pull 720's (I have seen this!) and still be able to grab people.

If the sentinel hits a wall they can use it to quick turn. Also there is a glitch currently where a sentinel using the air dodge move to the side while turning the mouse in that direction turns at a very fast speed. Hopefully both are fixed at some point.

FireWorks_
17th Jan 2015, 22:25
If the sentinel hits a wall they can use it to quick turn. Also there is a glitch currently where a sentinel using the air dodge move to the side while turning the mouse in that direction turns at a very fast speed. Hopefully both are fixed at some point.

and the no-halt is due to the grab time during which you are immune to landing.

Cristari
18th Jan 2015, 14:27
and the no-halt is due to the grab time during which you are immune to landing.

I had thought that was it but I have seen people glide across the floor for a lot longer than the grab timer would allow!

Khalith
19th Jan 2015, 09:30
I had thought that was it but I have seen people glide across the floor for a lot longer than the grab timer would allow!

That can be attributed to people being good at sentinel and knowing how low they can fly without being forced to the ground.

Protekt1
20th Jan 2015, 18:46
I think that being able to simply change your mouse sensitivity to make it so you can turn real fast during moments where you're supposed to be restricted is really really poor game design. I always wondered, but should have guessed, that people were doing things like that to cut corners so fast. Wow, that is really lame. They should make it so you can't do that, or make it so you don't have to.

PencileyePirate
20th Jan 2015, 19:26
I think that being able to simply change your mouse sensitivity to make it so you can turn real fast during moments where you're supposed to be restricted is really really poor game design. I always wondered, but should have guessed, that people were doing things like that to cut corners so fast. Wow, that is really lame. They should make it so you can't do that, or make it so you don't have to.

What are you on about? This is PC gaming, we've had mice with DPI switching for years. Variable sensitivity is generally accepted as legitimate and has nothing to do with the game, and what's more ... it usually hurts aim more than it helps.

calypso-694
20th Jan 2015, 19:46
Sentinals are very hard to master. ive only seen a few amazing sent players and they are all twitch people or ESL players. but once you watch or learn Senti tactics you got it down. all the good plaers play the same way so you can learn their tactics and then they wont be a threat. Tyrants are the same. they are damage sponges but can die FAST agains human teams. my K/D ratio as a tyrant is 10/10 lol on good days its 12/7. when you play as the class you are having trouble killing, youll understand them better and then be able to counter them easier because you know exactly what they are playing.

netmota
21st Jan 2015, 05:14
Sentinel have a 400 damage on a puncture, thats too much compared to the other classes... And dont forget if you fall in a long distance with abduct it takes a 500 damage or more without perk... So sentinel are the most powerfull class... You can airstrike without being visible and get over 1050 damage equal more than 1 kill... Only the tyrant can do such damage and must have enrage. Thats the way we prefer sentinel

--Ram--
21st Jan 2015, 06:23
If the sentinel hits a wall they can use it to quick turn. Also there is a glitch currently where a sentinel using the air dodge move to the side while turning the mouse in that direction turns at a very fast speed. Hopefully both are fixed at some point.

I honestly can't believe you want the sentinel speed boost mechanic removed. It is good for balance, it is fun, and it adds to the game's depth when there are mechanics to learn that separate rookies from vets other than raw aim and positioning/map/class knowledge. Would you prefer blimp sentinels floating around taking hits from scouts at 100% accuracy?

Shutenti
21st Jan 2015, 08:31
The beautiful thing about the Sentinel class is almost exactly what OP pointed out. Unless your team covers you and supports you, a Sentinel has a good chance to kill you. As an assassin class should.

The foundations of Nosgoth rely on class abilities that make teamwork essential for victory. If all class 1v1s were perfectly even this would remove the whole purpose of team-based play.

If you don't like getting grabbed in pubs then here are some practical tips:
1. Practice keep an eye on how many Sentinels are playing so you know what to expect.
2. Stand somewhere you will see them approach (this is good advice in general as a human) and make them pay for getting close enough to grab someone.
3. Play a counter class - warbow scout or bola hunter. Low- and mid- level Sentinels often fly straight towards you giving you plenty of chance to down them. If you do this, they're dead meat.
4. Listen out for the screech at all times (you're using headphones, right?) and dodge (preferably off a ledge) almost immediately after you hear it.
5. As Vampires, play unlock and Sentinel exclusively for a while. Better players will soon teach you about its weaknesses!

These tips will stop the Sentinel seeming like such an unstoppable force.

Edit: by the way, the maximum Sentinel turn rate is locked by the game and a higher mouse sensitivity does not overrule this. Tyrant charges are not rate locked but IMO really should be.