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Razaiim
31st Dec 2014, 08:37
#1: Will mystery items found during the event have the baleful effect in the same way as the Devil's night event?

#2: I think exotic weapons could use a rework. I think it would a nice idea to have players buy a one use exotic enchantment or dye, and then they can apply it to a weapon of their choice, to achieve the VFX and still use the weapon bonuses.

What does Psy, Square and Players think about this.

GenFeelGood
31st Dec 2014, 09:33
For #2, I am hoping that both VFXs and side perks will be purchasable through the store (hopefully with gold, though probably a sizable amount, as one of the currency options) once weapon crafting arrives. Only being able to access them through drops sounds like it would be a farming nightmare, perhaps certain things like the VFXs from the events can become only achievable through drops once their event is over and no longer available for purchase in the store.

-Konf-
31st Dec 2014, 10:26
#1: Will mystery items found during the event have the baleful effect in the same way as the Devil's night event?
I'm pretty sure that in another thread Saikocat mentioned that any mystery item looted during the current event won't have the enforced baleful visual effect. I can also confirm this as one of the mystery items I looted and managed to level had a flame visual. Unlike the Devil's Night, Dead of Winter didn't have the "mandatory" visual feature applied on mystery items (not to mention that ghostly effect wasn't applied to mystery items looted during Halloween event despite being advertised, but that's to the best in my opinion).

#2: I think exotic weapons could use a rework. I think it would a nice idea to have players buy a one use exotic enchantment or dye, and then they can apply it to a weapon of their choice, to achieve the VFX and still use the weapon bonuses.
Fantastic idea. I would love it to be that way because what's the point of me having an exotic I will never use because let's say I have a mystery item with awesome attributes? Being able to purchase a dye/enchantment that just applies the look makes it so much more flexible for the players. There are two problems I can see though that can make implementing it quite difficult:

1. Re-usability: If you buy a dye it will most likely have charges. However, if you change the visual on an item in the future for another - I doubt it you'll be able to go back or get a refund on your charge to use it again. So that means that you invested money into an exotic effect that has a potential to disappear.

2. Profit: Let's say if you need to buy a dye that can be used as many times as you like - how much do you charge for it? 2,400 x 30 (or however many primary abilities there are)? From what I've seen a lot of people actually buy runestones to get a hold of exotics - in which case buying certain items for smaller affordable sums is more appealing to players and more profitable to the developers as they get to sell more of those (and a F2P game needs some revenue).

That being said - I completely love your idea of being able to have an item with both exotic visuals AND secondary attributes. An alternative solution that wouldn't require changing the existing model would be similar to Gen's suggestion - to simply allow applying one or two sets of attributes to the exotic items through crafting at a lower/higher cost of crafting materials. Basically turning an exotic item into a mystery one, I would even be fine with attributes having charge to be honest.

Razaiim
31st Dec 2014, 17:16
Glad you agree so much! To address your concerns about it:



Fantastic idea. I would love it to be that way because what's the point of me having an exotic I will never use because let's say I have a mystery item with awesome attributes? Being able to purchase a dye/enchantment that just applies the look makes it so much more flexible for the players. There are two problems I can see though that can make implementing it quite difficult:

1. Re-usability: If you buy a dye it will most likely have charges. However, if you change the visual on an item in the future for another - I doubt it you'll be able to go back or get a refund on your charge to use it again. So that means that you invested money into an exotic effect that has a potential to disappear.

2. Profit: Let's say if you need to buy a dye that can be used as many times as you like - how much do you charge for it? 2,400 x 30 (or however many primary abilities there are)? From what I've seen a lot of people actually buy runestones to get a hold of exotics - in which case buying certain items for smaller affordable sums is more appealing to players and more profitable to the developers as they get to sell more of those (and a F2P game needs some revenue).


I'm picturing it to work exactly the way it does now, except instead of buying a weapon with effect, it's a single use permanent dye. I doubt psyonix will put a charge on this as it is a holiday exclusive, just like the banners, and is there to show you participated after the event is over. I think your point about players replacing it shouldn't warrant a refund since it's the players choice to overwrite it with something else. AT absolute best I could believe that the old enchantment could be returned to inventory, but I doubt it.

I think in revenue, this would be a boost to it. I literally have this conversation with a guy in lobby:
New: "What are these exotic weapons?"
Me: "weapons with a vfx applied"
New: "why would I spend money on pointless crap if it replaces my stat items? "
Me: *puts away baleful equipment*

I think if players didn't have to choose between the exotic effect and their gear I think psy/square could stand to make much more from the system.

-Konf-
1st Jan 2015, 05:15
I think if players didn't have to choose between the exotic effect and their gear I think psy/square could stand to make much more from the system.
Absolutely true. Exotic items right now lack practicality compared to other gear hence why it's sad that you end up buying them pretty much for "collection" purposes or unless you get a better gun with good attributes on it. And with crafting system coming live at some point the problem with exotics being under used will become even more evident, hence why I really love and support your idea.

I really hope developers will take note of this idea and implement it in some way. It's a win-win situation, it seems to me. With this suggestion implemented developers would be giving people more flexibility and value out of purchasing exotic items, since we players will actually have a chance to use the exotic visual without having to sacrifice stats. That, in turn, gives people more incentive to go to the store and get them exotics, which potentially makes more profit for the game that I think well deserves it.

Khalith
1st Jan 2015, 05:35
I think it would a nice idea to have players buy a one use exotic enchantment or dye, and then they can apply it to a weapon of their choice, to achieve the VFX and still use the weapon bonuses.

I would absolutely buy something like this if it were available for real money. I've gotten roughly a dozen or so blue and green items and a single mysterious item in all my time playing the game. Out of all of them, only two are actually worth using and I only use one of them regularly (a green abduct with increased movement speed and slightly increased cooldowns as the trade off) and the other is a savage pounce that isn't even worth using since it gives an increase to dodge distance but with the melee roll cancel it's not even worth it. The rest are all trash I'm only saving to turn in to raw materials when the crafting system is out.

I'd rather ignore the blue/green weapons/abilities entirely and just buy a visual graphic for my favorite weapons and abilities flat out. I've yet to see any green or blue quality item worth using, the one mysterious item I got was a multibow which is just not worth using over a plain repeater imo. Which is another issue, the item drops aren't really that exciting when nearly all of them are trash.

Vampmaster
1st Jan 2015, 13:30
Isn't this just the item customization that's been in the game's coming soon section for some time now? I'm sure I saw a comment from Corey about buying or winning the effect (as an item drop) by itself.

Cristari
2nd Jan 2015, 12:23
I don't think anyone should receive more than 1 MI for any class and if a person has an MI in their inventory no matter what class it is for it should count against them getting another one so that those that seem not to get any at all, aka me and others like me of course, get a better chance of getting one!

I don't really care about the affects too much needing to be like the seasonal event but it would be nice if they did. As to buying a dye that makes your weapons have a special effect, doesn't that just cheapen the MI's & Event weapons in the store?

Khalith
2nd Jan 2015, 16:41
As to buying a dye that makes your weapons have a special effect, doesn't that just cheapen the MI's & Event weapons in the store?

It does not for event weapons. Event weapons have unique audio and visuals compared to the others that you can't get otherwise. I can sort of see that with MI's if you could just buy an effect you wanted on a green or blue you already have but then you have to weigh in the economic factor. I'd be more than happy to buy a fire or poison effect for some of my weapons or abilities that have no stats on them, I am certain there are others that would love to just customize the base weapons without stats to have a special graphic.

-Konf-
3rd Jan 2015, 05:00
Isn't this just the item customization that's been in the game's coming soon section for some time now? I'm sure I saw a comment from Corey about buying or winning the effect (as an item drop) by itself.
Must've missed it, but if it's true it solves the problem as we need either introducing dyes (and applying changes retroactively to all the exotic weapons of past events) or letting exotic items get upgraded at a crafting station.


I don't think anyone should receive more than 1 MI for any class and if a person has an MI in their inventory no matter what class it is for it should count against them getting another one so that those that seem not to get any at all, aka me and others like me of course, get a better chance of getting one!
Absolutely not. People should be able to enjoy all the Mystery Items they can get, and without limitation. Also, for your information, a person getting a MI isn't taking it away from you and doesn't affect chances of you getting it. All 8 players have a chance to score a MI in the end of any given match. What should be done to avoid the frustrating situation that you're describing is introducing a system that increases your chances of looting an item the longer you go without a prize, and Corey said they're looking into it a long time ago. Either way, MI isn't the point of this game. This game isn't about loot, it's a competitive shooter.


As to buying a dye that makes your weapons have a special effect, doesn't that just cheapen the MI's & Event weapons in the store?
I think the initial suggestion was to sell a dye that applies exotic visual to an item of your choice instead of selling the item itself. A single dye can cost just as much as exotic items are currently priced. It's a valid concern, but I think it won't cheapen their value as it is pretty much the same thing. As per MI, for as long as MI effects aren't sold in store their value stays the same.

On a separate note (to those discussing possibilities of just buying a MI effect and applying it to a basic item or anything of the sort) - when I was asking Corey questions about crafting MI one of the things I was curious about is whether we'll be able to craft that exact effect that we want. At that point he said that they want to leave the randomness factor to MI visuals, because that's the whole point, or (if they decide to go with it) make crafting specific effect stupidly expensive so that it's hard to obtain. Think the same principle would apply to buying a visual of your choice in store, if it is to be implemented. Also guys, a thought - if we can just buy a MI visual in the store - doesn't that limit what the trading system in this game will be for?

Razaiim
3rd Jan 2015, 05:58
The request is specifically for Exotic items. Mysterious items would only be affected by this change if a player decided to replace the effect on their mysterious item with an exotic dye, as I am envisioning this.

Cristari
6th Jan 2015, 15:55
This game isn't about loot, it's a competitive shooter.

Actually on the contrary. It cant be a competitive shooter if one person has far better weaponry than the other the MI's do offer better weapon stat's than the normal (Gray) items and the dropped (green) items. If a single person holds more than 1 of these for ANY class then that puts them in a better position than the player without on the other team.

The ability for a single person to have more than one of these items to me is a game breaking event and if unresolved will leave people in possession of items that will put them into great standing in every game they play. This alone for me screams out for a wipe after it has been put right.


doesn't that limit what the trading system in this game will be for?

This is new to me there will be a trading system in game?

This compounds even further the unfairness of a 'Random' MI generator. If there is going to be a trading system then the person that is the 'luckiest' in game will end up with all the money in game or possibly the person with the 'expendable cash' being able to buy better weaponry making this games Free2Play status a complete mockery!

Vampmaster
6th Jan 2015, 16:13
Actually on the contrary. It cant be a competitive shooter if one person has far better weaponry than the other the MI's do offer better weapon stat's than the normal (Gray) items and the dropped (green) items. If a single person holds more than 1 of these for ANY class then that puts them in a better position than the player without on the other team.

The ability for a single person to have more than one of these items to me is a game breaking event and if unresolved will leave people in possession of items that will put them into great standing in every game they play. This alone for me screams out for a wipe after it has been put right.



This is new to me there will be a trading system in game?

This compounds even further the unfairness of a 'Random' MI generator. If there is going to be a trading system then the person that is the 'luckiest' in game will end up with all the money in game or possibly the person with the 'expendable cash' being able to buy better weaponry making this games Free2Play status a complete mockery!

So, you're saying there are no penalties to counteract the bonuses? Notice the red stats on those items. Those are reductions that make your character weaker in some aspects to balance out the benefits.

Obisher
6th Jan 2015, 19:20
Actually on the contrary. It cant be a competitive shooter if one person has far better weaponry than the other the MI's do offer better weapon stat's than the normal (Gray) items and the dropped (green) items. If a single person holds more than 1 of these for ANY class then that puts them in a better position than the player without on the other team.

The ability for a single person to have more than one of these items to me is a game breaking event and if unresolved will leave people in possession of items that will put them into great standing in every game they play. This alone for me screams out for a wipe after it has been put right.


These are the stats of my mysterious repeater
http://i.imgur.com/ZuQwsrI.jpg

The only direct advantage I had over my teammates was number of deaths. I was dying much more. I played maybe 10 more matches with it after unlocking visual FX and after that I switched back to my "green" Siege Bow. Mysterious items are simply "blue" items with visual effects. Nothing that will give you an advantage.

No offense, but I think you're creating too much drama over this. And I've seen you complain a lot about not getting any MI's. It's really nothing special. The only interesting thing is leveling them. When you unlock everything on them there are few possibilities... Either you'll love it because you got great visual FX and great buffs and debuffs, or you're not going to like it because you'll get visual FX you don't like and/or pretty bad buffs and debuffs. And you'll switch to your old weapon because you'll realize it's simply not worth it...

Oh and I almost forgot. The numbers on the buffs and debuffs are the same as on green and blue items. There's no larger percentage or something like that.

Sanguise23
6th Jan 2015, 20:16
These are the stats of my mysterious repeater
http://i.imgur.com/ZuQwsrI.jpg

The only direct advantage I had over my teammates was number of deaths. I was dying much more. I played maybe 10 more matches with it after unlocking visual FX and after that I switched back to my "green" Siege Bow. Mysterious items are simply "blue" items with visual effects. Nothing that will give you an advantage.

No offense, but I think you're creating too much drama over this. And I've seen you complain a lot about not getting any MI's. It's really nothing special. The only interesting thing is leveling them. When you unlock everything on them there are few possibilities... Either you'll love it because you got great visual FX and great buffs and debuffs, or you're not going to like it because you'll get visual FX you don't like and/or pretty bad buffs and debuffs. And you'll switch to your old weapon because you'll realize it's simply not worth it...

Oh and I almost forgot. The numbers on the buffs and debuffs are the same as on green and blue items. There's no larger percentage or something like that.

QFT!

-Konf-
6th Jan 2015, 20:50
Actually on the contrary. It cant be a competitive shooter if one person has far better weaponry than the other the MI's do offer better weapon stat's than the normal items and the dropped items. If a single person holds more than 1 of these for ANY class then that puts them in a better position than the player without on the other team.
1. MI attributes aren't that game changing (coming from a guy that has a few). They can be nice, I won't argue but in essence they are of the same grade as blue-quality items. I'd expect you to have a few, may I ask why you're not playing with them?
2. Right now for a MI to be strictly better you need a great set of attributes (same applies to a blue-quality item, which is pretty much a MI but without a visual, which adds zero difference to the point of "competitive edge" that you think MI bring). I'd say that in over 70% of the cases those attributes aren't great.
3. There might be a system implemented that removes "bad luck streak", more about it in my original post.
4. MI will be available through crafting so you can obtain them by progressing through the game instead of hoping for luck.

This compounds even further the unfairness of a 'Random' MI generator. If there is going to be a trading system then the person that is the 'luckiest' in game will end up with all the money in game or possibly the person with the 'expendable cash' being able to buy better weaponry making this games Free2Play status a complete mockery!
1. Gold in this game means nothing. I have close to 100,000 gold and nothing to spend it on (and I bought close to 20 exotic items, for the reference).
2. There will be a crafting system so you don't need to be lucky to get a MI or pay gold to buy it from someone... you'll be able to make one yourself by playing.
3. There is no mockery for a F2P status and trading system won't make it so if you think about how little value gold has in this game and the fact that MI will be pretty accessible for everyone through progression.
4. From what I've seen Free2Play means "all content is available and unlocked by playing". It doesn't mean that people in this game that are willing to spend real money can't have instant access instead of unlocking it by playing. As far as I'm aware, Free2Play models mean that ALL players, whether they pay money or not, get access to the same content when it comes to gameplay, and Nosgoth is exactly that.

And also, everything that Obisher said.

Razaiim
6th Jan 2015, 22:43
Ok #1, Cristari, You seem to have a greatly exaggerated view of the role mysterious items play. They posses all the exact same possible stat combinations as blues and greens (which you are equally like to find, and are straight up given for that class every 5 levels). The stat changes are negligible, stuff like spread, recoil , stopping power etc... changes are so tiny you really can't tell that they're there. Move speed and sprint changes can only be seen when in contrast to someone also moving who doesn't have those bonuses or penalties. The only reason you can see a difference in in ammo and health perks is that there is a bloody number there that tells you have 1070 hp instead of 1050, or 11 shots on prophet pistols instead of 10. A 5% change to cooldown is one second on a 20 second skill, and anything that isn't a whole number doesn't actually show on the countdown. All the above applies to greens, blues, and mystery items.

As was mentioned above, the biggest thrill to mystery items is leveling them to see the shiny particle effect at the end, not the gameplay impact.

2nd, and it just so happens to also have been you in part, is that the purpose of this discussion is not to debate the in-game effects or luck factor of Mystery Items, nor in fringe on the proposed plans for crafting, but solely increase the desirability of Exotic and Holiday event items, which are only available for small periods of time and have a good chance of never being seen again, and as I have already said, the only effect this would have on Mysterious Items would be if a player decides they think that A baleful or ghostly effect looks better than a toxic or fire effect.

Cristari
7th Jan 2015, 00:34
OK a little insight here.

150hrs playtime. I'm lvl 36 (just about to level up actually), I only play solo.
I have only 1 Blue I got from a Reaver lvl 10 award, it's not bad I use it a lot however everything else I have had is a green and only from class lvl rewards. I have only had 2 drops in my 150hrs of game time and both of those were for 24hr perks. I have a total of 460g (I can only imagine that you use boosters all the time to get 100k Gold) for me gold is an issue.

To me and I am sure I am not alone a MI drop would be like Christmas and a Birthday all rolled into one, I'd be quite happy to get one. When I see people running around with 5, 6, 7 or 8 I obviously get exceedingly jealous and obviously angry at a crap reward system. What makes me even angrier is people telling me that having a MI with 2 or 3 buffs & debuffs on it isn't a good item.

I would happily take a loss of health and a loss of healing station health for an increased number of ammo and a decrease of spread as well as running speed or reload. Seriously If you guys deleted those items today you would miss them tomorrow. So do not try to downplay how serious a topic this can be all by itself.

Now can we return to the topic in hand.

EDIT - I found a MI in my inventory today that I have no recollection of winning! OMG I found another I can not remember winning!
Oh and I have 3 blues 2 for Reaver level rewards 1 for Prophet level reward sorry I had forgotten completely about them.

Enlightened_Fool
8th Jan 2015, 16:54
I actually like the fact that no one can just buy MI's/exotics/buffs and that they have to be given out randomly(until crafting comes out).
I honestly think that if you could just flat out pay for getting a weapon with pre-picked skills/buffs on it it would make Nosgoth closer to that which most people dread- p2w, well if you could buy yourself an advantage, that is.
Now as for paying for purely cosmetic effects(colors!), sure, or even buying a base level MI would be ok, but yeah a lot of the times the buffs on MI's really aren't that great.
A lot of my non-standards have mostly garbage buffs on them, so really they're not that effective/game changing anyhow. Sometimes the stats I've gotten on an item make me wonder why I even got one in the first place when a standard is just as good or even better sometimes.

Vampmaster
8th Jan 2015, 17:16
Sometimes the stats I've gotten on an item make me wonder why I even got one in the first place when a standard is just as good or even better sometimes.

Because it's only supposed to allow players to try out different styles of gameplay and not make anyone "more powerful". For instance, my aim is terrible, so I'd rather just fire off more shots and increase my chances that way. A player who never missed, might prefer more damage and a lower rate (you have to have the tradeoff to keep things fair), because they'd be unlikely to waste shots. Its just a way of giving you a weapon plays on your strengths and compensating your weaknesses. What's a benefit in one person's hands might be a hindrance in someone elses. So the weapon isn't inherently better.

Razaiim
8th Jan 2015, 20:36
I actually like the fact that no one can just buy MI's/exotics/buffs and that they have to be given out randomly(until crafting comes out).
I honestly think that if you could just flat out pay for getting a weapon with pre-picked skills/buffs on it it would make Nosgoth closer to that which most people dread- p2w, well if you could buy yourself an advantage, that is.
Now as for paying for purely cosmetic effects(colors!), sure, or even buying a base level MI would be ok, but yeah a lot of the times the buffs on MI's really aren't that great.
A lot of my non-standards have mostly garbage buffs on them, so really they're not that effective/game changing anyhow. Sometimes the stats I've gotten on an item make me wonder why I even got one in the first place when a standard is just as good or even better sometimes.

Kinda misses the point I'm trying to make. I'm talking strictly about how to buy an exotic weapon colour (The VFX that comes with holiday events like ghostly and baleful), you have to use a standard weapon. My suggestion is that for exotic weapons only, they change the system to a one use dye that changes a weapons VFX to that of the event. This way if someone has a blue or green with stats they like, then they can apply that effect to it instead of choosing to use exotic effect or weapon stats.