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TwilightSparkle-tG
15th Dec 2014, 11:50
Hey guys,

I have a balancing suggestion for the trap ability for scout. I've played a fair amount of scout and i've also played against a lot of scouts using this ability. Just to be clear, this is my favourite ability to use in the secondary spot when playing as a scout so im not suggesting this because i've raged at it or something like that, rather i am concerned for the balance in the game.

As it stands i believe the trap is slightly too powerful. It's 400 damage is fine, as is the radius of its explosion. The thing that i think needs changing is the delay between when you place the trap and when it becomes 'primed' i.e. The time between clicking the 'f' key to deploy the trap and when the trap will actually detonate and cause damage if there are nearby vampires. At the moment there is roughly a 1.5-2 second delay, which i think is too short. It is too easy to place a trap down and then when a vampire detonates it to immediately place down another trap (as the cooldown will usually have reset on the ability by this time) at your feet while you are being attacked, dealing up to 800 damage to a vampire (or vampires) in the space of 3 seconds.

Increasing this delay between the trap being placed and when it can deal damage will bring the trap ability more in-line with actually being a trap that you have to strategically place before a battle and less like a grenade that you throw at your feet. This change won't alter the traps ability to do its intended 400 damage to a vampire (or vampires), it simply removes the potential to use the trap as a grenade and also deal 800 damage in a short space of time.

Thanks for reading :)

DesolatedMaggot
15th Dec 2014, 13:10
I think I'd rather see the cooldown activated by the detonation of the trap, rather than on dropping.

Razaiim
15th Dec 2014, 15:56
The first Trap is easy enough to detonate without taking damage. The second one is more of a problem, and I feel a good solution would be to increase the self damage inside the smaller radius and add a self stun to it if you are in a smaller explosion radius.

TendrilSavant
15th Dec 2014, 22:46
I think I'd rather see the cooldown activated by the detonation of the trap, rather than on dropping.
There needs to be a cooldown on both activation and detonation. No cooldown on activation (or at least 1 sec global CD) would make repositioning way to easy, and would trivialize where you drop it.

Trap in general has limited applications against above average players due to the melee dodge cancel, but that's a whole other discussion. But against intermediate and low level players, having access to "two" traps per combat can easily be abused; especially when the Scout plays ring around the Trap.

DesolatedMaggot
15th Dec 2014, 23:25
There needs to be a cooldown on both activation and detonation. No cooldown on activation (or at least 1 sec global CD) would make repositioning way to easy, and would trivialize where you drop it.Don't really see that as an issue, placing the trap isn't exactly a tricky affair. And in the current state of the game, humans don't move around enough to make it a big deal. Even still I wouldn't be against that. Shorter cooldown on drop, ideally, though.

PencileyePirate
16th Dec 2014, 03:22
Trap is not OP at all, and it doesn't need any sort of nerf. /facepalm

TwilightSparkle-tG
16th Dec 2014, 12:58
Trap is not OP at all, and it doesn't need any sort of nerf. /facepalm
Sass is not a good way to try and put your point across silly. Some actual reasoned feedback as to why you think what i've said isnt accurate would be much more helpful :3

snejjjj
16th Dec 2014, 13:16
Nerfing isnt always the best option. Buffing other skills is a better option

Razaiim
16th Dec 2014, 23:30
Nerfing isnt always the best option. Buffing other skills is a better option

Not in this case. All the scouts alternatives are viable, and if trap needed a change it would be very minor, and tweaks that small are easier and have less risk of breaking the class.

Situations where it would be better to buff instead of nerfing would be the stream of changes and attempts to keep the reaver in line with the other classes, although the other classes suffer from having distinct weaknesses, and not enough to compensate. But that time is past(ish).

PencileyePirate
16th Dec 2014, 23:48
Sass is not a good way to try and put your point across silly. Some actual reasoned feedback as to why you think what i've said isnt accurate would be much more helpful :3

That wasn't sass, that was straightforward frustration over this forum's obsession with suggesting unnecessary nerfs.

That said: dropping trap can be interrupted by vampire melee and there's absolutely no reason to leave a Scout alone mid-fight long enough to drop TWO traps ... especially if he's close enough to throw them into an ongoing fight. Even small nerfs to trap could ruin viability of the skill.

Khalith
17th Dec 2014, 02:06
Nerfing isnt always the best option. Buffing other skills is a better option

It's usually better to nerf the outliers rather than buff everything else.

TendrilSavant
17th Dec 2014, 04:17
...there's absolutely no reason to leave a Scout alone mid-fight long enough to drop TWO traps ... especially if he's close enough to throw them into an ongoing fight.
You're twisting words, no one is saying you can drop two Traps per combat. Op's scenario clearly specifies placing one Trap before combat and a second one mid combat.

PencileyePirate
17th Dec 2014, 08:54
You're twisting words, no one is saying you can drop two Traps per combat. Op's scenario clearly specifies placing one Trap before combat and a second one mid combat.

One trap before and one during isn't much different from two traps during ... at least what I said still stands; Scouts shouldn't be able to drop traps into combat very easily, and when they do it's probably because someone wasn't paying enough attention. Also if the first one is placed beforehand it's fairly easy to see/avoid (another reason not to nerf it.) Delaying a new trap by adding cooldown when the old one explodes is just silly.

Saturnity
17th Dec 2014, 09:57
What in the world are you guys talking about? Dropping a trap in the middle of a fight is a terrible idea. It locks you into a long animation and trap itself takes an eternity to go off. The vampires can even see you putting it down, they'll never fall for it.
Trap has a lot of uses, but wasting time activating it isn't one of them.

TwilightSparkle-tG
18th Dec 2014, 08:25
What in the world are you guys talking about? Dropping a trap in the middle of a fight is a terrible idea. It locks you into a long animation and trap itself takes an eternity to go off. The vampires can even see you putting it down, they'll never fall for it.
Trap has a lot of uses, but wasting time activating it isn't one of them.

It really does not take an 'eternity'.
The situation is that you place a mine at your feet and when the vampires attack and it explodes, stunning them for a second, you immediately put down another trap, dodge roll over it and continue shooting dealing 800 damage to any vampires trying to melee you plus however much damage you do with your bow. Additionally when a scout is being focused and about to die they can place a trap down at their feet and deal damage to enemies much like a grenade.

There is a reason trap is the most popular secondary ability for scout at the moment.

But from the feedback in this post one thing suggested was:

I think I'd rather see the cooldown activated by the detonation of the trap, rather than on dropping.

which i think is a great suggestion :3

Hyperspeed1000
18th Dec 2014, 20:29
just like saturn i have no idea what everone is talking about....trap mine does 300 self dmg by throwing it out twice you do 600 dmg to yourself almost everytime + you lock yourself into a long animation that can be also interupted...the casting time alone is enough to kill the scout not speaking of the self dmg caused by mine itself...

by any means trap does not need a nerf...especially not since it need 2s to go off even when its placed near a vampire....

Calderweiss
21st Dec 2014, 00:48
I think I'd rather see the cooldown activated by the detonation of the trap, rather than on dropping.

This might be the right idea, but I wonder if it would need compensation in other areas if this was executed?
Also, most of the time when I see someone placing trap, I can get a hit in, back up, and then just attack roll over the trap, detonating it after I am out of harm's way. If the scout stays near it, they take some damage of their own.