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TendrilSavant
10th Dec 2014, 22:05
So how much Stopping Power (SP) does each Hunter shot have? Does it add up? How does it compare to the other humans over time; i.e. Stopping Power Per Second (SPPS)? Is it possible that the increase in clip size from the last patch might make SP stronger?

SP slows down melee animation right? Could this be why Hunter is the best at 1v1? Not necesseraly because of SP per shot, but because of SPPS.

Will vampires ever get access to a perk that allows minimization of Stopping Power, like how humans have Tenacity for Stun Resist?

DesolatedMaggot
11th Dec 2014, 04:31
I don't think SP slows down the attack animation, I think it slows down your foot speed. Like how a sprinting human is easily kept up with once you land your first hit. If you play a Tyrant and full charge a melee attack while getting shot at by one human, you'll notice you leap forward about half the distance you normally would, though the charge time and attack animation appear normal.

You can get SP resistance on items, but I can see the potential value of a perk as well. Especially for Tyrant. Poor guy gets riddled with shots and is already slow. I really notice a difference when using my +SP resistance Charge and using charged melee attacks while being shot at.

I could be wrong though, purely my observations. Would love some official word on the less obvious stats.

Razaiim
11th Dec 2014, 20:48
Stopping power got asked about when the loot mechanic went up.
If I remember right then stopping power dictates the length of that flinch/stutter from a large hit, as well as things like staggers and knockdowns. So not something a hunter could do with weapons.
The slow seen when vampires hit someone sprinting is another thing entirely.

TendrilSavant
14th Dec 2014, 05:40
I don't think SP slows down the attack animation, I think it slows down your foot speed. Like how a sprinting human is easily kept up with once you land your first hit.
I think they are two different mechanics, but I could be wrong. Vampire melee causes movement slow down and camera shake. Stopping Power damage to vampires is a bit harder to narrow down, and I for one would appreciate a breakdown from a dev. It definitely affects the distance of lunge/charged melee. But sometime while trying to out DPS a Hunter it feels like your attacks are slowing down in extended engagements.


If I remember right then stopping power dictates the length of that flinch/stutter from a large hit, as well as things like staggers and knockdowns. So not something a hunter could do with weapons.
From my experience if you hit with all of Hunter's Multibow shots, it seem to slow down charged melee noticeably; so there does appear to be stopping power in Hunter's shots. But because all the other Hunter weapons are sustained fire, it might be hard to see the impact Stopping Power has over time.


I found this relevant to this topic while looking through the game update log on the main page: (http://www.nosgoth.com/game_updates/page/6)

Stormbow
- Stopping power on undrawn shots removed, drawn shots reduced significantly
- Stopping power on undrawn explosions unchanged, drawn explosions increased slightly
There was an overall Stopping Power nerf to Scout's Bow before this, but It's no longer on the main page (and finding it in the update threads might take awhile). Anyway, no Stopping Power on Scout's Stormbow could be why it's a subpar choice and more to the point, a clear indication of the overall strength of Stopping Power. If I'm right, it's kind of silly if a hidden stat has so much weight in combat.

Psyonix_Corey
15th Dec 2014, 19:06
Stopping Power was reworked in beta to function like so: it negates a certain percentage of your velocity in the direction of the shot ONLY. So if you're running away from the crossbow hit, it does nothing, but if you're running or meleeing towards it, it negates a certain percentage your movement speed.

Human weapon impacts also apply a generic movement speed slowdown similar to vampire melee that applies in all directions, not just the direction of the shot like Stopping Power.

Neither value stacks - the strongest effect is applied at all times, but it is not additive. So a Reaver that's been shot by a Scout and a Hunter is affected by the Scout's effects until they wear off or some stronger weapon/ability supersedes it.

Here is a chart summarizing the current values:
http://i.imgur.com/3hffZoh.png

Misc Notes:

Stormbow's Explosion provides Stopping Power and Slow, but the initial shot does not.
I think these values could stand to be further tuned as far as relative balance between classes goes. You could make an argument that Hunters should get less Stopping Power duration per shot, or that other classes should get more.
I think you could also make an argument for weapon-specific values (right now they are shared across all variants per class), particularly for "Heavy" vs. "Light" weapon variants, but because the system doesn't stack there isn't a huge advantage to faster weapons currently.
I'm less open to increasing the intensity of how much you are stopped or slowed - it's a very precarious balance to strike - but durations definitely seem reasonable to adjust.

DesolatedMaggot
15th Dec 2014, 19:38
Thanks for the info, Corey!

Any chance you'd consider making both slow mechanics affected by Stopping Power Resist? Would make the stat considerably more useful. -- Assuming that it doesn't already, of course.

FireWorks_
15th Dec 2014, 21:43
Thanks for the informative post. Could you also elaborate on the stun resist in the same way, please?

TendrilSavant
17th Dec 2014, 04:21
Thanks for the numbers and clarification Corey. The more I look at those stats, the more I believe that there should be an over all re-balance of the Stopping Power and Slow Movement mechanics.

I understand Stopping Power is there to discourage melee spam, but it might be a reason vampires suffer against expert human players; it seems to lop side combat in Humans favor. Humans have hitscan lasers, that also slow you down? While vampires cause slow down as well, it's only good for punishing people who react badly at close range. In other words Human mechanics reward you for performing well but vampire mechanics reward you when your opponents performance poorly.

Charged Shot, 60% for .5 a second seems absurd. You already get high burst damage as a reward for good aim, do you also have to give the ability to lock down a vampire for half a second? It seems Swiftbow's strength isn't in the slight increase in DPS when charged, but the ability to put out so much Stopping Power easier.

And while the Slow Movement doesn't stack, there is a clear advantage to Hunter's high fire-rate weapons. It allows a more constant Slow effect, with decent aim it's possible to debuff a vampires movement 0.4secs per second. Two Hunter's trained on you means a constant debuff while fighting or retreating.

Finally, does Stopping Power and Slow Movement have falloff?

Psyonix_Corey
17th Dec 2014, 17:06
I agree revisiting both mechanics is a good way to look at high level human balance issues. I do still think that Stopping Power in particular is an important mechanic for low-to-mid skill humans as it lets them deter vampires who approach directly, though. So we have to tread somewhat carefully.

As for falloff - looking into it now, the design was for them to, but it appears it's not being applied correctly. We'll look into it. The original intent was for both stopping power and slowed movement intensity and duration to fall off at roughly the same distance/rate as damage does.

Wolf_Hook
17th Dec 2014, 21:38
Nice, thanks for asking this.

We talked about it briefly in the lobby but I forgot all about it til now.