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Poticha
4th Dec 2014, 17:06
Hi everyone!

We're proud to announce today Dawn Engine, our PC and new-gen consoles engine, which will be used for upcoming projects in the Deus Ex Universe.

Check out all the details and a first screenshot taken in Dawn Engine on our blog: http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/dawn-engine

-Neon-
4th Dec 2014, 17:23
I can't wait to see it in action!

Mistah_K
4th Dec 2014, 17:27
Awesome. That screenshot looks gorgeous.

vallux
4th Dec 2014, 18:38
ALL THE GOOOOOOLLLLLDDDD

MasterTaffer
4th Dec 2014, 19:33
You have my attention...

SageSavage
4th Dec 2014, 21:23
Finally something. Not happy with the gold overload at all. Together with the artsy fartsy stuff going on it feels even more suffocating then usual. Not much more to be said at this point, I think. No hidden cryptic clues to decipher, it seems.

Speaking of which: any chance of getting that blue color scheme of the blog as a forum theme?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
4th Dec 2014, 22:14
This is a very sticky 'n; sweet Deus Xmas treat, thanks Sacha.
Its looking good and I like the engine name too. :cool:

Benjamax
4th Dec 2014, 22:27
Looking great Sacha, keep up the great work! Can't wait to see some details on DE:U!

AdrianShephard
5th Dec 2014, 00:28
Hmm...don't like the gold (again); I'll wait to see it in action, though. I like the engine name!

Hope this "Universe" business isn't an overreach where the core games will somehow be compromised by it. I don't understand why we are going in the direction of mobile games and books that attempt to expand the 'lore' but end up cheapening the franchise name. DX1 was a self-contained lore juggernaut; make another game with the same depth and there wouldn't need to be more media that expands on the story. Better yet, keep the in-game fiction and story in the game... The DX1 in-game literature by Chris Todd was more interesting and fitting for the atmosphere than all of the Icarus Effect.

Shralla
5th Dec 2014, 01:05
I don't like the gold, and on a technical level, I have no idea why they'd go with this over UE4. This is a modified version of the engine that powered Hitman: Absolution, which wasn't exactly a technical standout on any level. Proprietary engine means no modding, and higher potential for optimization issues.

Color me disappointed.

SageSavage
5th Dec 2014, 05:54
I don't understand why we are going in the direction of mobile games and books that attempt to expand the 'lore' but end up cheapening the franchise name. DX1 was a self-contained lore juggernaut; make another game with the same depth and there wouldn't need to be more media that expands on the story. Better yet, keep the in-game fiction and story in the game... The DX1 in-game literature by Chris Todd was more interesting and fitting for the atmosphere than all of the Icarus Effect.

Well, that's easy to answer: mobile games, pysical books etc mean more potential income for EM while ingame books & co mainly mean more work. First and foremost this is a business, so decsions aren't based on what is best for the franchise from a gamers point of view - nor a designers.

AdrianShephard
5th Dec 2014, 06:27
Well, that's easy to answer: mobile games, pysical books etc mean more potential income for EM while ingame books & co mainly mean more work. First and foremost this is a business, so decsions aren't based on what is best for the franchise from a gamers point of view - nor a designers.

I'm already aware of EM's sellout, it was quite evident with much of HR. A smart business -- one that respects itself, its products, and its audience -- would not continually flood the market with poor and uncreative works that are unrepresentative of a franchise their predecessors worked their **** off to create. If the main product is good enough, the demand for more will naturally come. Let the hype build on its own, don't artificially create it and risk losing the value of the Deus Ex name. Everyone I know is excited for the next Red Dead Redemption game and it hasn't even been confirmed yet; the hype for GTA 5 can be traced before the game was even acknowledged. Rockstar has mastered the hype train and as a result, they are guaranteed massive sales without having to look desperate.

SageSavage
5th Dec 2014, 06:33
At least one of them... ;)

To be fair though, I think beside some "sellout" decisions, HR at least partially had its heart in the right place and TML even more so (apart from being a DLC that should have been part of HR).

AdrianShephard
5th Dec 2014, 06:39
At least one of them... ;)

I don't know what you are taking about. It goes DX1 -> HR... :scratch:

;)

SageSavage
5th Dec 2014, 07:00
I don't know what you are taking about. It goes DX1 -> HR... :scratch:

;)
Yeah, I was just confused because you wrote "predecessors"... ;)

I think Rockstar profits hugely from having a pretty constant group of people at the helm. I think that can lead to much more efficient long term strategies. Like politicians that ignore the more important problems because they can't be solved within their legislative period. Quick successes, quick money is what is expected - can't afford to think about the future now.

AdrianShephard
5th Dec 2014, 07:27
Yeah, I was just confused because you wrote "predecessors"... ;)

Oops, was implying Ion Storm.


...can't afford to think about the future now.

The Illuminati disagrees with you.

Poticha
5th Dec 2014, 20:49
Finally something. Not happy with the gold overload at all. Together with the artsy fartsy stuff going on it feels even more suffocating then usual. Not much more to be said at this point, I think. No hidden cryptic clues to decipher, it seems.

Speaking of which: any chance of getting that blue color scheme of the blog as a forum theme?

This one was made back then for Eidos-Montréal as a studio (it's kind of out of date now, to be honest).
If we get a new skin up, it will be in line with our new Deus Ex Universe banner.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10830523_959016684127947_6316490421646053908_o.jpg

68_pie
5th Dec 2014, 22:09
Urgh, still black and gold. Other than that...cool?

FrankCSIS
5th Dec 2014, 22:54
Hello Sacha!

Any hints or scoops on what it means, gameplay-wise? What kind of limitations was the team trying to overcome with this in-house brew?

Shralla
6th Dec 2014, 00:53
I just don't know why they didn't go with UE4, which Square Enix is already licensing for Kingdom Hearts 3. Or really any already established engine. As I said, Hitman Absolution wasn't a technical standout in any way, and was also last-gen tech for consoles. Heavily modifying it is only going to take it so far. Dealing with the limitations of a heavily modified engine is part of what caused Human Revolution to suffer. I really hope it doesn't turn out like that.

AdrianShephard
6th Dec 2014, 03:01
This one was made back then for Eidos-Montréal as a studio (it's kind of out of date now, to be honest).
If we get a new skin up, it will be in line with our new Deus Ex Universe banner.

Looks nice, but still (as the others said)...why gold again? It is a symbolic color? I much prefer a combination of black, blue, and white...anything but gold.

I also don't get the triangle styling in the logo...

SageSavage
6th Dec 2014, 06:42
It's a corporate identity thing - created by JJB for EMs reboot of DX. I'm guessing one consideration for the color choice was the renaissance-theme they came up with for HR. Which would be kind of a stupid choice for a franchise identy because other chapters in the Deus Ex universe were and probably won't be taking place during that very short lived period of time.

Shralla
6th Dec 2014, 07:27
I just don't see the need to recognize an entire franchise by the color scheme contained in any given screenshot of the game.

MasterTaffer
6th Dec 2014, 07:42
I love the gold.

SageSavage
6th Dec 2014, 11:58
RvqwiMbdtA4

FrankCSIS
6th Dec 2014, 14:06
http://houseofgeekery.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/04c9d5cc6cf0b7fd5a75c6665735d13f.jpg

This heart is cold
He loves only gold
Only gold
He loves gold
He loves only gold
Only gold
He loves gold

Pinky_Powers
7th Dec 2014, 19:09
Great art direction saved Human Revolution's poor graphics. But I'm more interested in the physics engine. We need a world of interactivity. HR was so gimped in that area.

LordHoban
8th Dec 2014, 04:55
The new engine looks promising!

And I don't get the comment saying HR had 'poor graphics'. I thought the graphics looked great, with solid art direction to go hand in hand with it. Minecraft has poor graphics, though it is a design choice to have poor graphics to fit with its style. HR... did not.

Pinky_Powers
8th Dec 2014, 05:11
No. HR had poor graphics. Beautiful-looking game, but lacking in the engine.

LordHoban
8th Dec 2014, 05:18
"Beautiful-looking game" indicates good graphics, not bad. Graphics are the visuals. A lacking engine, is something else entirely... unless it lacks support for better graphics. Maybe HR didn't have all the bells and whistles that you wanted to see in it... maybe the engine didn't quite hit the mark in a few areas.. but as you yourself said, it was a beautiful looking game. So graphics, good. :P

SageSavage
8th Dec 2014, 05:32
I think Pinky likes the art style but technically it was lacking. Like I still like how Day Of the Tentacle looks but the SCUMM engine is horribly outdated nowadays.

I didn't like the parts where HR went for a more artificial look (as opposed to realism).

LordHoban
8th Dec 2014, 05:39
I think Pinky likes the art style but technically it was lacking. Like I still like how Day Of the Tentacle looks but the SCUM engine is horribly outdated nowadays.

I didn't like the parts where HR went for a more artificial look (as opposed to realism).
Ok, and I can see where it did lack, technically, in some areas.

AdrianShephard
8th Dec 2014, 06:11
I don't know...I didn't like the character models in HR. They didn't look realistic, but something tells me they weren't supposed to be. Everything was...smooth.

Whatever the case, the game can have Crysis graphics but it won't matter if the level design and story are ****. This is Deus Ex, not some other FPS; visuals aren't (or aren't supposed to be) the main attraction of the game.

SageSavage
8th Dec 2014, 07:35
Heh! I swear I saw this just a minute ago:
http://kotaku.com/please-dont-hurt-day-of-the-tentacle-1668074849

Hive mind at work, I guess.

Pinky_Powers
8th Dec 2014, 13:02
"Beautiful-looking game" indicates good graphics, not bad. Graphics are the visuals. A lacking engine, is something else entirely... unless it lacks support for better graphics. Maybe HR didn't have all the bells and whistles that you wanted to see in it... maybe the engine didn't quite hit the mark in a few areas.. but as you yourself said, it was a beautiful looking game. So graphics, good. :P

I really thought we were at the point where folk didn't need to be told the difference between aesthetics and graphics.

Here. I'm at work, so I can't give you a direct YouTube link, but follow the first link on this Google search. Watch it. Learn. Profit.
https://www.google.com/search?q=aesthetics+vs+graphics&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

Shralla
8th Dec 2014, 20:15
Ok, and I can see where it did lack, technically, in some areas.

Yeah, like all of them.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Dec 2014, 21:26
This heart is cold
He loves only gold
Only gold
He loves gold
He loves only gold
Only gold
He loves gold

Give me silver any day. :cool:

But as for DXHR, I also like the black and gold palette.

Poticha
8th Dec 2014, 22:17
Hello Sacha!

Any hints or scoops on what it means, gameplay-wise? What kind of limitations was the team trying to overcome with this in-house brew?

Hey! We're not going into detail just yet, but real-time physics and artificial intelligence are among the key points. :)

Pinky_Powers
9th Dec 2014, 01:45
Hey! We're not going into detail just yet, but real-time physics and artificial intelligence are among the key points. :)

So the player will be able to redirect each one of those lights so they are all focused on a single poodle, causing the little runt to burst into flames and run in terror, thus distracting nearby enemies.

Graphics. Physics. Artificial Intelligence. A universe of possibilities contained within that one image. Impressive. :thumb:

Shralla
9th Dec 2014, 06:16
Physics, yes please. More interactive objects in the game world!

SageSavage
9th Dec 2014, 07:07
In order to take a stance in the gender debate, DX5s protagonist will be female this time. SQUEEs animation department is already hard at work to offer the players the most realistically jiggly breasts experience possible. Augmentations will make a visible difference.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
9th Dec 2014, 15:53
Pinky, I take it you don't much like poodles? :D

AdrianShephard
9th Dec 2014, 16:32
In order to take a stance in the gender debate, DX5s protagonist will be female this time. SQUEEs animation department is already hard at work to offer the players the most realistically jiggly breasts experience possible. Augmentations will make a visible difference.

Unnecessary flashy cutscenes, unnecessary animations during conversations (including jiggly boob "physics"), extremely lame dialogue, etc. all break immersion. If EM must do anything with the future of Deus Ex, it's to stop placing so much emphasis on the protagonist. If the player doesn't connect with them, the entire game is ruined...especially if the plot depends so much on the emotions of the protagonist.

This isn't a movie! We don't have to be shown the main character and develop emotions about them as if they were a separate entity. We ARE the main character; stop making us see the world through protagonist's eyes...let us see the world through our own!

Pinky_Powers
9th Dec 2014, 18:13
Pinky, I take it you don't much like poodles? :D

I wouldn't say I mislike them, per say. More that, of all the dogs, they are most likely to deserve immolation.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
9th Dec 2014, 20:37
I see, hehe. :D

FrankCSIS
10th Dec 2014, 00:10
Hey! We're not going into detail just yet, but real-time physics and artificial intelligence are among the key points. :)

Ok ok so you cannot talk about it.

So here's what we will do.

If the new physics engine allows us to interact with all the kipple and other objects filling up the environments, blink once.
If the new engine will allow larger levels and hubs, blink twice.
If the new physics engine was created to offer more immersive boobies, blink thrice.

Pinky_Powers
10th Dec 2014, 00:37
Hell, I'll blink thrice just to show my support for immersive boobies.

LordHoban
10th Dec 2014, 07:13
Unnecessary flashy cutscenes, unnecessary animations during conversations (including jiggly boob "physics"), extremely lame dialogue, etc. all break immersion. If EM must do anything with the future of Deus Ex, it's to stop placing so much emphasis on the protagonist. If the player doesn't connect with them, the entire game is ruined...especially if the plot depends so much on the emotions of the protagonist.

This isn't a movie! We don't have to be shown the main character and develop emotions about them as if they were a separate entity. We ARE the main character; stop making us see the world through protagonist's eyes...let us see the world through our own!

I disagree, Give me a strong protagonist and I get to take on that role, and live the story. Yes, the game hinges on liking that character, but so what? It is no less valid of a design choice and I think it gives a lot more potential story possibilities that can enrich the game and make it more meaningful, whereas empty shells as main characters, risks distancing a player from what is going on... because everything in regards to the player character is nonspecific and general, to allow for the player to do whatever. The only way to really do what you suggest fully (given the heave voice acting in the Deus Ex games), would be to allow the player to choose different voice sets... depending on how they want to sound, which means recording every line of dialogue many times or recording a lot less dialogue, if they only have characters talk to you with the player character never actually speaking.. and that takes away from the potential impact of dramatic moments. I like what they did in terms of voice acting in HR.

Pinky... I know the difference between aesthetics and graphics. If you really want to be anally technical about it, aesthetics are the beauty of the actual design and the graphics are what is used to pull it off. The aesthetics were beautiful and the graphics used to pull it off, were, also... but you, are referring to the limitations of the engine, not the graphics. The engine is everything under the hood, with graphics being one facet. The physics, for instance, are not graphics. The visual representation of those physics... are graphics.

Let's take it back another level. Grim Fandango has wonderful aesthetics... but the graphics are outdated. Not bad, just old. Could they be updated to allow for smoother animations or whatever it would require to update them... yes. Someone else could just outright call that bad, because they are outdated. In this case, we're talking opinion and ok, you are entitled to your opinion on HR. I can't agree with it. I think the graphics delivered on the aesthetic and bad graphics I don't think would have, given the requirements of the aesthetics. A lot of retro games have bad graphics, but the aesthetic calls for these bad graphics. Now, the engine in HR, yes, had limitations. Hopefully the new engine corrects that.

Isumbarus
10th Dec 2014, 10:08
What can I say?I am disappointed with the engine they've taken.Even If they 've made this decision earlier they could switch to Unreal Engine 4 after release In 2012-2013 .I dont think next Deus Ex will be able to compete with games made on UE4.I 've seen Hitman Absolution In action and It's not impressive like UE 4.And putting this In a long run, I dont think it will work well.

I dont understand this,they have something that is new In the house,Is on top, looks amazing, and they choose some third-party software.

Poticha
10th Dec 2014, 15:43
Ok ok so you cannot talk about it.

So here's what we will do.

If the new physics engine allows us to interact with all the kipple and other objects filling up the environments, blink once.
If the new engine will allow larger levels and hubs, blink twice.
If the new physics engine was created to offer more immersive boobies, blink thrice.

I... I can't blink. Here's my true form.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/702/887/f71.jpg

Isumbarus
10th Dec 2014, 17:01
And when you create new forum for DX Universe ?I rather back to old theme than this.

FrankCSIS
10th Dec 2014, 19:16
I... I can't blink. Here's my true form.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/702/887/f71.jpg

Damn you, Illuminato!

Don't make me redirect government resources just to find out more!

I know your cleaning services have access cards that open most, if not all doors....

Also, if I were you, I wouldn't touch the coffee or food from the café downstairs... Just sayin' ;)

PS: Fancy new nametag you got there!

MasterTaffer
10th Dec 2014, 19:32
Dang, when did I get that? It just became corporeal on my lapel...

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Dec 2014, 22:14
:eek: We never asked for this....:eek:

Shralla
10th Dec 2014, 23:26
I disagree, Give me a strong protagonist and I get to take on that role, and live the story. Yes, the game hinges on liking that character, but so what? It is no less valid of a design choice

For a Deus Ex game, yes it is.


and I think it gives a lot more potential story possibilities that can enrich the game and make it more meaningful, whereas empty shells as main characters, risks distancing a player from what is going on... because everything in regards to the player character is nonspecific and general, to allow for the player to do whatever.

Not really. It can all be specifically tailored the type of character you've created and developed, based on the choices you've made in the game. That is the very purpose of Deus Ex, to put you the player in the shoes of your avatar through which you interact with the world. It's not about a character's story. It's about YOUR story.


The only way to really do what you suggest fully (given the heave voice acting in the Deus Ex games), would be to allow the player to choose different voice sets.

If you can make all the dialog choices you want, the vocal qualities, the superficial aspects, are irrelevant. I have literally never heard anybody complain about the lack of what you're insisting "must" be implemented to make a quality game. Of all the things related to Bioware games I've heard people complain about, the lack of ability to pick your voice is not something that's ever come up. You will wind up connecting the voice you're given to the character you're playing as, regardless of what you go into the game hoping for or expecting.

AdrianShephard
11th Dec 2014, 03:45
I was halfway through writing a reply but I see Shralla made an effective post paralleling what I was about to say.

I still want to address some things though...



Give me a strong protagonist and I get to take on that role, and live the story...

You live the story with them but not as them. The stronger the protagonist, (usually) the more information has to be revealed about them -- whether it's personality, past, etc. -- creating more walls between the player and the character. This isn't bad for all games, in fact some base their entire appeal on the emotions elicited toward the protagonist. A good example of this is Max Payne; the player isn't Max rather they control and feel pity for him as his life spirals into hell.


...whereas empty shells as main characters, risks distancing a player from what is going on...

Sure. An empty shell for a character does detract from the experience if the game relies on the character's emotions for plot, etc.. If the game stops trying to be like a 10 hour long movie and actually uses outside forces to propel the story forward, less focus is placed on the protagonist and more on the writing/atmosphere/plot. Inevitably, when a decent interactive world is created, a character with a predefined strong personality will alienate the player (unless you happen to be exactly like them) and ultimately breaks immersion.



The only way to really do what you suggest fully (given the heave voice acting in the Deus Ex games), would be to allow the player to choose different voice sets...

Uh...dialogue goes a long way. As long as the lines aren't full of sarcasm (like in HR) and the character does a fine job at being direct yet inquisitive, then no problems will be had. DX is a prime example of how a blank character can engage the player with their dialogue while also advancing the story and fleshing out the game world.

Sotcitcio
14th Dec 2014, 16:13
First post on the new forums, just bring the deus ex theme here too.

About the engine, why not UE4?

Also I am kinda afraid of the whole "universe" thing.

Isumbarus
17th Dec 2014, 18:35
Hey team,I could give you more advice about Deus Ex 4 when you create DX 4 forum or section.

FrankCSIS
18th Dec 2014, 00:57
Judging by the looks and traffic of this place, you'd never guess there's a new game underway. Let alone a whole damn Universe of games!

LordHoban
18th Dec 2014, 05:49
We'll just have to agree to disagree, Shralla/Adrian Shephard. I have played games where I could create my own whatever, and it worked... and I have played games with a specific protagonist (like all the Deus Ex games)... and that worked, too. JC Denton and Adam Jensen are both pretty specific. JC might have been a bit colder, but he was definitely a character (so your definition of a blank character and then referring to Deus Ex makes no sense to me). He certainly wasn't a blank character (Doom 3, for instance, has a blank character, where people are just talking at you with no actual choice to respond, if I recall... it's been a long time). The Fallout games, those had characters you could create, but they also didn't have voice acting for main character, so we never actually heard your character's dialogue, but we did get to choose it). The Mass Effect games had a very specific character, a male/female version of it... yet it was also open to a lot of possibilities... or I should say, a lot more possibilities than has ever been in a Deus Ex game... yet even the Mass Effect series was incredibly linear for the most part, even while it offered nonlinear elements to tell its linear story.

"It's not about a character's story. It's about YOUR story."

I have no idea what Deus Ex games you have been playing, but they certainly were not the ones I was playing. The games I played had a very specific story... they were not open ended. I did not play MY story. Yes, I could choose may way through an environment. I could choose how to play, but that had nothing to do with my story. It wasn't my story. It was JC Denton's story, in the case of Deus Ex. And Adam Jenson's story, in HR. Deus Ex is NOT a game like Fallout 1/2 or New Vegas, where it was about your story.

So the above quote makes no sense for anyone who has actually played Deus Ex. Otherwise, you are going to have to tell me how I could have stayed with Unatco, cause that was the story I initially tried to play... (and yes, there was an intention for that, but the final product did not have that option) .

What you suggest is a completely different design direction than any Deus Ex game has currently gone (and I'll say this again, no less VALID than the other direction). And I'm not saying I'm opposed to that, depending on how it's done, but trying to attribute those elements to a game that has never had them is just wrong.

Isumbarus
18th Dec 2014, 09:56
By the way , about the engines,here is the current ranking list of best engines available on the market.Top 5
5.Fox Engine
4.Frostbite 3
3.Snowdrop
2.CryEngine
1.Unreal Engine 4

The glacier 2 is not even in top 10

UE4 compared to Cryengine:

-UE4 c++ framework is just a lot cleaner and easier to use
-Tools are way better and easier to use in UE4
-Blueprints!
-BLUEPRINTS!
-documentation,
-Exposing c++ functionality to LUA scripts in Cryengine is just a mess. In UE4 the compiler handles that for you. Just mark your stuff with UFUNCTION(BlueprintCallalbe/BlueprintImplementableEvent) and you are good to go.

It's able to render quite a lot and uses the CPU and GPU very effectively such as relying on some GPU processing that normally the CPU would do (particle effects) so it can support millions of particles with out performance loss when games used to only support hundreds at best thousands of particles.

and more.

Dont forget that Unreal Engine 4 had been in development since 2003.

Cryengine still wins in realistic outdoor environments,but UE4 is very close.

Sotcitcio
19th Dec 2014, 16:01
JC Denton was a character that showed no emotions in the game. The dialogues and the voice acting didn't show at all what JC might be thinking.There were also so many decisions and choices to make. Those are the reasons I believe Deus ex was, among other things, about making "your own story".

Souchie
24th Feb 2015, 17:49
So, you have chosen to upgrade an existing engine and from the little information that we have it does look pretty.

But as an Unreal Engine 4 Dev I have to ask why you have chosen to opt for upgrading an older, existing engine over moving towards UE4, Unity, CryEngine or any of the other engines that were developed as a product on themselves.

What can the Dawn Engine do what these can't, or was it an financial decision?

I find it hard to justify it financially as upgrading and maintaining an engine is expensive.
Not to mention that Deus Ex (1) has been pretty heavily modded making it still playable to this day and this is purely due to the unreal engine. Having an engine that people know how to work with ensures longevity and new content that is basically FREE for you as an company.

Even if you do decide to give out the development tools for the Dawn Engine people will have to migrate, learn a new engine and tools and that will be a big drawback for most people.

And if you're worried about people messing up the experience... well it is a choice for the end user to download a mod. Just look at Skyrim or even Morrowind for example they are still relevant because of the massive modding community.

I know you won't go back on the decision but I would be interested in your reasoning, as a company, to not opt for one of the better community know engines.

Shralla
24th Feb 2015, 22:15
or was it an financial decision?

Of course it was. The only reason to use that engine over any number of other engines on the market is because it costs them nothing to use, even with the work they have to put into updating it. They don't want a moddable engine. They don't give any kind of a **** about modders or what they could offer the game in the long run. If anything they are purposefully making it unmoddable because no mods means it's easier to sell people DLC.

Unfortunately, it is what it is. Maybe "Dawn Engine" (I hate that they give it a new name when it's actually the same engine as Glacier) will be awesome for use with the game. But a "heavily modified" version of an older engine always means mods are out. It meant mods were out for IW, it meant mods were out for HR, and it means mods are out for the new game. They don't want the game to last forever via mods, because they want you to buy DLC and buy the next game when it comes out. Eidos Montreal is just not a company that cares about empowering its customers.

Souchie
25th Feb 2015, 00:45
Of course it was. The only reason to use that engine over any number of other engines on the market is because it costs them nothing to use, even with the work they have to put into updating it. They don't want a moddable engine. They don't give any kind of a **** about modders or what they could offer the game in the long run. If anything they are purposefully making it unmoddable because no mods means it's easier to sell people DLC.

Unfortunately, it is what it is. Maybe "Dawn Engine" (I hate that they give it a new name when it's actually the same engine as Glacier) will be awesome for use with the game. But a "heavily modified" version of an older engine always means mods are out. It meant mods were out for IW, it meant mods were out for HR, and it means mods are out for the new game. They don't want the game to last forever via mods, because they want you to buy DLC and buy the next game when it comes out. Eidos Montreal is just not a company that cares about empowering its customers.

I find this unlikely, take Skyrim or Fallout 3/NV both these games have several very popular DLC as well an very active modding community.

The reason for this is actually pretty simple; modders rarely touch the original story or lore in fear of making the game inconsistent with existing lore or future updates. Even if they choose to add quests to the game they are nearly always stand-alone from the main plot.

Modders usually focus on adding new equipment, skins/models, textures and at times they will fix bugs that remain unresolved by the company.

I really don't think the large sum of money of upgrading an old engine to measure up against the likes of the UE4 or Crysis and the maintenance it entails to optimize this for all platforms will come anywhere close to the possible losses in revenue by adding modding. Better yet, many of the best games throughout the generations would have never reached this status without the community.

I don't think they are completely daft at Eidos Montreal, their must be a more valid reason to it. Unless Square Enix forced them into it... which would surprise me a lot less.

Maybe it's time for a community made cyberpunk game in tribute of the original Deus Ex in the Unreal 4 Engine.