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View Full Version : Why I am going to wait to buy this game....



myname4
30th Nov 2014, 18:01
Well I for one REMEMBER how the people that made Just Cause 2 treated us gamers and I am in no mood to give them credit. I remember they gave us a very, very bugged game..a game that if not for a modder...we would not have even been able to complete the stupid game 100%!

That is not even mentioning the game breaking oil rig bug...or all of the other bugs this game had...not to mention if you wanted to get to 100%....you had to go through each and every little town and free it...which most towns were the same...just had things in different places.

But the thing that really really ticked me off about that stupid game was the fact that it was dependant on X and Y cordinates on the main map...coordinates that YOU COULD NOT TYPE IN! You had to just..."get close' as you could to the place you wanted to go and look for it from there! VERY VERY STUPID! They could have easily given gamers a way to type in the stupid coordinates! But NO....like most of this game it was handled in an idiotic way!

Not to even mention gamers feeling abandoned when they would not even release a patch so that you could get to 100%!

No, I will wait on this game and see if the people playing it have multiple bugs, can even get to 100% completion and finally if the game is worth it...because I do not feel just cause 2 was! It was a badly ported game to PC and if they have plans on doing that again, I will just skip this new game.

Sorry for the rant, but I have been burned by these people at this company once...never again!

ChiroVette
1st Dec 2014, 05:07
I am going to pre order the game and I want it the second it launches.

But look, don't get me wrong. I am forced to grudgingly agree with you about the appalling and disgusting lack of meaningful support for Just Cause 2. I mean, the worst part about the Bugged Water Tower and the missing resource items both leading to an inability to obtain 100% completion, unless you modded the game on the PC, was not the problem itself. All games have problems and bugs. No, the worst part about the lack of support is that while Avalanche couldn't even be bothered to fire off a two line post or some blog entry regarding the issue, or at least ACKNOWLEDGING IT, they were certainly willing to take our money with DLC after the game released and after the 100% bug was apparent.

While I applaud the efforts the devs are making in communicating, via interviews, all the cool things coming in JC2, and answering tons of questions, I am left baffled and feeling a little insulted by such apathy with regard to such a huge problem as an inability to achieve 100%.

And forget about the fact that modders with a sum total budget of 0 dollars fixed the problem Avalanche could not or would not. They couldn't even bother to have one of their minions fire off a post in their official forums or disseminate the info in a blog post or something? They had to know about the issue, yet they insulted the intelligence of their customer base but never once even verifying the bug.

So, yeah. I agree with you that these are not people who intrinsically care about their customers other than collecting money from them.

However, all that said, and yes I am ranting too, I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I will pre order JC3 and be playing it the second I can get my hands on it. Not to support the atrocious and despicable lack of communication by the devs but because I know the game is going to be amazing.

chip5541
2nd Dec 2014, 12:19
I have 100% on Just Cause 2. I have even played through it 4 times already. :D

I know, I am just being a showoff. What is it you are missing for teh 100%? maybe we can help.

Whitestar127
2nd Dec 2014, 15:41
This is a first day purchase from me for sure.

Badly optimized? Eh, no. JC2 was one of the best optimized games I have ever played. Silky smooth action all the way.

Let's hope they will give better support this time.

Error96_
2nd Dec 2014, 22:11
I liked JC2 but have to say the completion thing of finding all the items was so annoying and I prefer the way JC1 played better. I would certainly give JC3 a chance and hopefully some of those type of problems with JC2 will be fixed.

ChiroVette
3rd Dec 2014, 02:35
I have 100% on Just Cause 2. I have even played through it 4 times already. :D

I know, I am just being a showoff. What is it you are missing for teh 100%? maybe we can help.

I have completed it more times than that, and unless you are playing the game with the mod that allows 100% completion (not sure if this works for the 360) you have AT MOST 99.95%.

I can guarantee you that in the un-modded game there are 6 things missing:

3 Weapon Parts
3 Vehicle Parts
1 Bugged Water Tower

Chip, this is a widely known glitch that prevents anyone playing the game without a mod putting those missing items back in the game from getting 100% Game completion.

The Water Tower is just "bugged" and when a modder was able to create the map with all items on it, even JC2's file list the water tower in that location as "bugged." The 6 missing resource items are, most probably missing because they were never given out in the next to last Agency Mission.

chip5541
3rd Dec 2014, 07:31
I may have been confusing the Platinum trophy (PS3) with 100% completion.

Attention Driber, in reference to a post back in 2011... I am guessing 100% :D

ChiroVette
3rd Dec 2014, 12:19
I may have been confusing the Platinum trophy (PS3) with 100% completion.

Attention Driber, in reference to a post back in 2011... I am guessing 100% :D

Yeah, the Platinum Trophy is very attainable. I was referring to 100% Game Completion, which is not possible with the 6 missing Resource Items and the "BUGGED" Water Tower.

a_big_house
3rd Dec 2014, 15:12
Is it really that big of an issue that you can't get 100%? I know for completionists, it must have been frustrating, but the game was still playable, complete-able and a lot of fun :D

ChiroVette
3rd Dec 2014, 17:55
Is it really that big of an issue that you can't get 100%? I know for completionists, it must have been frustrating, but the game was still playable, complete-able and a lot of fun :D

Yes and no, but in the case of Just Cause 2, it is absolutely a HUGE deal. The reason is because the devs NEVER bothered to confirm, deny, or even comment on this issue in the slightest and most insignificant manner. When myself and many others found ourselves stuck at the dreaded and un-passable 99.95% we were debating for MONTHS about this, and using Square's forums to beg and plead with the devs to comment on this and let us know the truth.

It took almost a year of about a dozen people who all had the very same percentage (99.95%) to simply give up, throw our hands up, and assume it was a bug. The problem is that many of us wasted many hours searching the entire huge map, like a grid pattern, for those 6 missing Resource Items.

Had anyone from the Dev team imparted this information to us, or hell, asked a Goddamned secretary to fire off a two line official statement that they were aware of the issue, even if they also said that they would not fix it for whatever reason, then it would have saved us a ton of debate and endless, futile searching.

To this day, the brain-trust who worked on the game have still never bothered to make it official, though by now its moot because we all know the truth.

Sorry, but this is proof positive that the Jus Cause devs don't listen to or respond to their customers, nor could they bother to impart this information to even so much as a forum moderator or admin to pass along to the forum. And this, even though there were tons of thread on...wait for it...the official JC2 forum site.

PoorBison
7th Dec 2014, 11:03
So I'm gathering that this isn't really an issue with the 100% thing, but rather with Avalanche's communication on the matter?

I agree it's quite unfortunate that it's not possible to actually see 100% completion in the game without a community made patch - but on the other hand, this is 6 missing resource items and the perfectionist achievement/trophy was awarded long before actually getting 100% in the game. (75% I think) If I remember correctly, all the vehicles and weapons could reach their maximum level without even needing to find these hidden ones. So it only really does effect the games own percentage and nothing else - there is no actual award for getting 100%.

So yes, while I understand your frustration at being stuck at 99.95% I don't think it's an issue big enough to start forming a wide-ranging meta problem that suggests that developers don't care about us. Remembering that before the game came out they listened to our feedback regarding the 'red-flash' when something took damage (by taking our suggestion onboard and removing the flash), and they released a patch to restore that Vanderbildt LeisureLiner bus when we complained that it was absent from the game.

So I'm not denying anything here - I agree it's actually quite strange for Avalanche to simply ignore this issue, but all I'm saying is that I think we have to remember that it's not a key part of the game to get to 100% and that it's unfair to forget everything else Avalanche has actually done for us just because they remained silent on one issue.

ChiroVette
8th Dec 2014, 17:22
So I'm gathering that this isn't really an issue with the 100% thing, but rather with Avalanche's communication on the matter?

I think the lack of fixing the issue is an issue but not an unforgivable one. Although it is strange to me that an unpaid member of the modding community was able to fix the issue that Avalanche couldn't be bothered with. Additionally, even long after the issue was reported ad nauseam in the forums, Avalanche was hard at work creating DLC for the game with which to make money off of.

Still, even if some amateur could fix an issue they couldn't or wouldn't, the truly egregious thing about the situation was the complete and utter lack of any response or acknowledgement.

Did you know that there were community leaders who work for Avalanche constantly posting to the forums, answering questions about the coming DLC, the update patch, and even before the game launched, answering questions about the coming game? They were there to hawk their weekly or monthly podcasts, their various contests, and disseminate propaganda to the community with clockwork constancy. And with all the posts they created, all the questions answered, NOT EVEN ONCE did a single one even address or respond to this issue!

Imagine, for a second, a month after the game releases and Avalanche has one of their community leaders who routinely posted in the forums make an announcement such as:

"Hey Just Cause fans! We know that many of you are concerned about 100% game completion and want to know if it is even possible. I am just here to announce that there is a bug in the game and from this moment on, you should all consider 99.95% Game completion to be 100% completion. Sorry about the inconvenience."

Even if they never fixed the issue, just firing off a statement like that would have saved many of us in the community long and tedious hours, week after week, searching for the missing items that are simply NOT on the map.


I agree it's quite unfortunate that it's not possible to actually see 100% completion in the game without a community made patch - but on the other hand, this is 6 missing resource items and the perfectionist achievement/trophy was awarded long before actually getting 100% in the game. (75% I think) If I remember correctly, all the vehicles and weapons could reach their maximum level without even needing to find these hidden ones. So it only really does effect the games own percentage and nothing else - there is no actual award for getting 100%.

No, but again, there are many gamers who love to get 100% completion in their favorite sandbox games. And since we all now know (almost FIVE years later) that 99.95% is the highest percentage attainable, it would have been nice to at least get an official statement from the development team...ya know, between yammering on about their coming DLC and podcasts! lol


So yes, while I understand your frustration at being stuck at 99.95% I don't think it's an issue big enough to start forming a wide-ranging meta problem that suggests that developers don't care about us. Remembering that before the game came out they listened to our feedback regarding the 'red-flash' when something took damage (by taking our suggestion onboard and removing the flash), and they released a patch to restore that Vanderbildt LeisureLiner bus when we complained that it was absent from the game.

So I'm not denying anything here - I agree it's actually quite strange for Avalanche to simply ignore this issue, but all I'm saying is that I think we have to remember that it's not a key part of the game to get to 100% and that it's unfair to forget everything else Avalanche has actually done for us just because they remained silent on one issue.

I guess we're going to have to disagree about the inexcusable nature of not communicating this to the customer base, given how many people were trying to get an answer to the question. Again, take thirty seconds from your forum propaganda campaign and fire off a one sentence announcement with regard to the issue.

This isn't the dark ages, its the information age. You have many customers clamoring for an answer to a question very important to them, an you blow it off while making post after post pedaling your DLC announcing all the coming podcasts?

PoorBison
8th Dec 2014, 22:10
Did you know that there were community leaders who work for Avalanche constantly posting to the forums, answering questions about the coming DLC, the update patch, and even before the game launched, answering questions about the coming game? They were there to hawk their weekly or monthly podcasts, their various contests, and disseminate propaganda to the community with clockwork constancy. And with all the posts they created, all the questions answered, NOT EVEN ONCE did a single one even address or respond to this issue!Yeah man, I've been here since the start, I remember you from the JC2 forums! :p

Didn't quote everything else because I do see your point, and all I really have to say is, we don't know what happened for sure:

You've rightly noticed that they did alot of marketing - and all of this would have had to run through the publisher and been signed off. They can't admit to faults without risking some seriously bad PR - this is Apple's strategy too, except in this case, it's likely Avalanche themselves would have liked to address the issue, but someone in Square Enix marketing wouldn't allow it, because they would be scared of headlines like "Avalanche admits to broken game" and would lose sales.

I know this sounds weak, but that is how things are these days. So why not just go ahead and patch it without telling anyone?

Well as far as it goes technically - we know very well that the PC version could be patched, but we don't know the deal with the console versions. Some things obviously could be fixed like the bus spawning, but there's a chance that once the layout of the map itself was committed to disc, that it was unchangeable. Some things can't be patched - whereas the PC version can be extracted and modified through the dropzone folder. If they can't patch the same glitch on all platforms, they probably wouldn't patch it.

Again, this is all speculation, and doesn't really address concerns without making some assumptions, but I am sure Avalanche were aware of the problem. If anything, I'm sure they'll triple check this in Just Cause 3.

ChiroVette
8th Dec 2014, 23:56
Bison, I agree, it is speculation, but there is definitely logic in what you're saying. I guess we'll never know, but THANK YOU for your post, because while it is speculation, it is a plausible reason why Avalanche couldn't simply answer the question even though it was posted a great many times. Honestly, I hadn't thought of it that way before I just read your post.

Driber
10th Dec 2014, 11:36
I may have been confusing the Platinum trophy (PS3) with 100% completion.

Attention Driber, in reference to a post back in 2011... I am guessing 100% :D

Come again? :scratch:


I think the lack of fixing the issue is an issue but not an unforgivable one. Although it is strange to me that an unpaid member of the modding community was able to fix the issue that Avalanche couldn't be bothered with.

It's not so strange when you take into consideration that said unpaid modder didn't have to worry about possibly breaking the game, and possibly spending (tens of) thousands of bucks on publishing a patch. He was able to do it for free, and without any consequences.

I don't think it's a case of "can't be bothered", either.


Additionally, even long after the issue was reported ad nauseam in the forums, Avalanche was hard at work creating DLC for the game with which to make money off of.

I get your point, and understand how that can feel frustrating, but what would have realistically been the alternative - for Avalanche to drop everything else that they were working on just because some people couldn't get 100%? (That's not meant to belittle the issue, mind you.)


Still, even if some amateur could fix an issue they couldn't or wouldn't, the truly egregious thing about the situation was the complete and utter lack of any response or acknowledgement.

Did you know that there were community leaders who work for Avalanche constantly posting to the forums, answering questions about the coming DLC, the update patch, and even before the game launched, answering questions about the coming game? They were there to hawk their weekly or monthly podcasts, their various contests, and disseminate propaganda to the community with clockwork constancy. And with all the posts they created, all the questions answered, NOT EVEN ONCE did a single one even address or respond to this issue!

As PoorBison speculated, there may have very well been another reason for that, other than "can't be bothered", as you're portraying. Generally speaking, I know that many devs poor their heart and souls into the games they create, and would LOVE to talk directly to the fans about what's going on, but then there is such a thing as a PR department who often gets to call the shots on what is communicated, what is not, and how it is communicated to the public, for reasons stipulated by PB.

ChiroVette
12th Dec 2014, 17:56
Driber, you obviously didn't read the post I made responding to Bison above yours. :p

Driber
12th Dec 2014, 21:39
Heh, I did. See my response more as something aimed at the OP, or anyone else reading the thread :)

myname4
19th Dec 2014, 05:57
@ PoorBison....Well I guess I have my views and you have yours, but I do NOT agree that a valid reason would be...that they never released a patch for the PC...because they could not do it on all platforms...if that was the reason....it was a VERY STUPID ONE!

They should have fixed what they could....if they could not do it on an xbox or playstation...they why should PC gamers not have it fixed if it could be? (Which we know it could be...it was by a modder on PC) Sorry, but I do not agree with that kind of reasoning at all.

I agree with what ChiroVette said....there really was no excuse for them to not even acknowledge gamers and let them know what was going on.

And I will stand by what I have said about waiting and seeing if this game turns out to be another Just Cause 2 or not ....I just don't need that kind of aggrivation.

IF however it turns out to be a good game and the bugs are fixed as they arrive, then I will buy it...simple as that.

I guess we shall see...one way or another.

I just will not buy a repeat of what would be Just Cause 2 all over again.

Hopefully they have learned their lesson....if not....no skin off my nose....Too many other games I can play and enjoy.

'nuff said.

ChiroVette
4th Jan 2015, 14:56
@ PoorBison....Well I guess I have my views and you have yours, but I do NOT agree that a valid reason would be...that they never released a patch for the PC...because they could not do it on all platforms...if that was the reason....it was a VERY STUPID ONE!

I hear you. But other than the inability to get 100% completion, which in my mind ABSOLUTELY should have been fixed (particularly considering modders did it on the PC!) what was it about the game that was truly "broken?"

I am not talking about complaints and imperfections, mind you, but true, game-breaking problems, which admittedly the 100% bug was one! I have my complaints about JC2 other than that:

1. No rudders in planes and copters.
2. The horrible land vehicle handling.

And a few others. But are those game-breaking or just my personal taste? Are those issues that Avalanche unequivocally needed to address? Or just things that some people like me complained about?

The same is true for your complaint about not being able to type in X and Y coordinates. Sure that would have been nice, I won't argue that! But was it truly incumbent upon Avalanche to "fix that?"

Yeah, the towns were somewhat repetitive. But you know what? I personally don't care. Because I believe the limited resources of the consoles forced the towns to have a somewhat repetitious structure on a map as HUGE as Panau. I don't think its realistic to not have some conservation of design throughout many of the settlements on a map that size. And personally, I loved the map, so I feel it was an acceptable trade-off. You aren't wrong about that, but I do think that some things had to be streamlined in order to have a map that massive. And I think that the scenery of the various environments in the game isn't just good, its positively breathtaking! So, to me, I'll take a little repetitiveness.

Again...trade-off! I think its more than worth it.



They should have fixed what they could....if they could not do it on an xbox or playstation...they why should PC gamers not have it fixed if it could be? (Which we know it could be...it was by a modder on PC) Sorry, but I do not agree with that kind of reasoning at all.

They did offer some fixes, but I intrinsically agree with you. Fix what you can! I also think they could have EASILY patched the 100% bug. Again, I say this because it was done for FREE by people not even working for Avalanche who DID NOT have access to the coding of the game. This simply should have been fixed, and I see no reason why it wasn't other than there was likely no money in it. The other stuff, as I said, are just preference issues and niggles about the imperfections in a game, and all games have them. You simply cannot patch and "fix" every single thing. A line has to be drawn and at some point the devs have to conclude that the game is done being fixed and patched. Admittedly that should have happened after fixing the 100% bug! lol


I agree with what ChiroVette said....there really was no excuse for them to not even acknowledge gamers and let them know what was going on.

And I will stand by what I have said about waiting and seeing if this game turns out to be another Just Cause 2 or not ....I just don't need that kind of aggrivation.

IF however it turns out to be a good game and the bugs are fixed as they arrive, then I will buy it...simple as that.

I guess we shall see...one way or another.

I just will not buy a repeat of what would be Just Cause 2 all over again.

Hopefully they have learned their lesson....if not....no skin off my nose....Too many other games I can play and enjoy.

'nuff said.

I hear you and totally respect this! However, for me, even with the minor issues I have (like driving physics, lack of rudders, etc.) and the one major one, Just Cause 2 still remains, to this day, to be one of my favorite games in history. So while I admire your conviction, I will have this game the very second it launches. I can't wait!