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View Full Version : Bring back Legacy of Kain



SICK907
25th Nov 2014, 04:04
So its been a long time since we saw a sequel to this game. I think with the size and speed of the new systems that are out now it is the precise time to re-introduce the blood sucking adventure of Kain!! I mean with all the vampire fanatics in the world you would definitely see a lot of interest in this title.

Lord_Aevum
25th Nov 2014, 12:45
Some of us have been thinking the same thing... for eleven years :nut:

GenFeelGood
25th Nov 2014, 22:55
If only we could agree on how it should come back, if Nosgoth succeeds in creating enough interest in the franchise to bring it back.

Vampmaster
26th Nov 2014, 10:23
Sprucing up and linking the old forums with the Nosgoth ones would be a start:
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=148612

Driber said someone would have to volunteer (which I'm not allowed to do because of a conflict of interests), but there's currently only The_Hylden as moderator now that Umah has left, so maybe it's time to start recruiting.

Lord_Aevum
26th Nov 2014, 16:13
If only we could agree on how it should come back, if Nosgoth succeeds in creating enough interest in the franchise to bring it back.

I don't think we should necessarily have to agree. Could Soul Reaver have ever existed if a committee of Blood Omen fans had to approve its bare-bones paper design beforehand? You kind of cannot manufacture art like that, through a poll or a focus test.

Probably the most there is to be hoped for in the way of consensus is that it'd be a single-player action-adventure with a dignified, rich story, and a return to the character of Kain. And no microtransactions :p

AlexanderLS
26th Nov 2014, 16:41
Probably the most there is to be hoped for in the way of consensus is that it'd be a single-player action-adventure with a dignified, rich story, and a return to the character of Kain. And no microtransactions :p

Don't bother. Single-player games don't do well anymore.
Nosgoth will likely earn more for you guys than any of the legacy of kain games did.

MasterShuriko
26th Nov 2014, 16:55
Don't bother. Single-player games don't do well anymore.
Nosgoth will likely earn more for you guys than any of the legacy of kain games did.

Heretic!:eek:
Dont listen to this madman! Bring us a new golden/ decaying age where we get to play and follow in Kains Legacy once again pwetty pwease!
Been waiting for the continuation since 2004!

Lord_Aevum
26th Nov 2014, 17:00
Don't bother. Single-player games don't do well anymore.
Nosgoth will likely earn more for you guys than any of the legacy of kain games did.

Silence! Leave us to our insane fantasies. We don't need no truth bombs around here! :rasp:

GenFeelGood
26th Nov 2014, 17:26
Don't bother. Single-player games don't do well anymore.
Nosgoth will likely earn more for you guys than any of the legacy of kain games did.

Don't be so quick to dismiss single players. You kept Gears of War and Call of Duty for the multiplayer; but do you think you would have paid full price if it didn't come with that single player campaign?

Ysanoire
27th Nov 2014, 15:42
I've come to terms with the fact that there probably won't be a single player LoK sequel roughly 5 years ago. If there is, it's probably going to disappoint everyone.

The claim that single player games are not popular anymore seems to be silly tho in the light of a new Dragonage coming out just recently, together with two Assassin Creed games which people preordered like crazy before they found out they actually suck balls.

Vampmaster
27th Nov 2014, 16:04
I've come to terms with the fact that there probably won't be a single player LoK sequel roughly 5 years ago. If there is, it's probably going to disappoint everyone.

The claim that single player games are not popular anymore seems to be silly tho in the light of a new Dragonage coming out just recently, together with two Assassin Creed games which people preordered like crazy before they found out they actually suck balls.

How can you say 'probably' without any information on what they have in mind? Wouldn't it be better to see the pitch for the project and make an assessment afterwards?

GenFeelGood
27th Nov 2014, 18:12
That's the thing about single player games these days, they either need to have a multiplayer element or have massive, diverse maps like in Skyrim. A single player campaign would be good for this game, even though it can't follow Kain or Raziel because of the era this takes place in and the multiplayer might be hard to work out for games following those two; but a reboot of the series with the second variation (massive, diverse maps) would be nice.

Vampmaster
27th Nov 2014, 21:22
The only reason single player games aren't doing as well as they used to is that there aren't as many good ones being made anymore. Everyone just copies off everybody else and crams multiplayer in on the end so they can sell DLC.

GenFeelGood
28th Nov 2014, 00:01
Then how do we explain Darksiders 1 & 2 not doing as well as they expected, despite fantastic content and positive reviews?

Da_Wolv
20th Jan 2015, 08:04
Sidebar:

I played SR2 and Defiance back in the day, but I was way too young when the previous games came out and never really paid attention to the lore because of it. (Also, my 12-year-old self couldn't have cared less...)

What I would love to see, for starters, is an HD remake, which could bring back brand awareness and inform younger gamers, who missed the previous titles intirely.

Soiuxsie
20th Jan 2015, 13:35
I have to agree with Da_Wolv it would be better to have a HD version of the old games, dont get me wrong I want also some closure on the story just one final chapter, but considering the model of modern gaming I would be scared of the new LoK game.
Just imagine Legacy of Kain 6 pre-order and get a DLC, open wolrd that you can expand with DLC content also this time there will be no Tony Jay to voice the main antagonist of the game.

Vampmaster
20th Jan 2015, 15:08
I have to agree with Da_Wolv it would be better to have a HD version of the old games, dont get me wrong I want also some closure on the story just one final chapter, but considering the model of modern gaming I would be scared of the new LoK game.
Just imagine Legacy of Kain 6 pre-order and get a DLC, open wolrd that you can expand with DLC content also this time there will be no Tony Jay to voice the main antagonist of the game.

It's very rare to see an open world game with DLC as part of the main campaign. In most cases I've seen, the majority of DLC is confined to multiplayer and doesn't effect the story mode, except to drain resources from it. If DLC/multiplayer is needed, it could remain an optional alongside thing. Probably similar to Nosgoth except in the same eras Kain visits and with closer ties to the main storyline.

Soiuxsie
20th Jan 2015, 20:21
@Vampmaster Just to be clear I was just pointing out that most modern games abuse DLC, and with that are not focusing on the core game we have many of those examples like Watch Dogs, Assassins Creed games, Thief even Mass Effect 3 had a day one DLC with a character tied to the story. I could only wish for for a new LoK game but the industry shows different.

Sanguise23
20th Jan 2015, 21:00
Skyrim was well done and is not overly dependent on DLC

GenFeelGood
20th Jan 2015, 23:06
If you wanna see what it looks like when DLC goes too far, just look at Destiny.

"You're telling me I gotta buy multiple DLCs (that aren't even ready yet) if I want to finish the campaign of a game I already paid for?"

Vampmaster
20th Jan 2015, 23:30
I've seen plenty games where you have to pay extra for the ending, but do any of the examples you gave use streaming engines and a fully open world? I was just saying it's very difficult to patch in additional areas, because the connections need setting up in advance.

Ygdrasel
30th Jan 2015, 01:47
All this nonsense about single-player games don't do well anymore (and yet, they keep being made and are still the majority of games...) or an LoK sequel would be full of DLC...

Helpful stuff there.

ApollosBow
6th Feb 2015, 01:35
Id like a HD Remaster of the entire series...maybe some extra scenes and dialogue....and a real remaster, with Nosgoth level graphics in terms of quality.

When its finished port over Nosgoth (or port it first) for marketing and I bet it'd make a killing selling the skins, console gamers drop loads of cash for stuff like that, look at Gears 3 gun skins, prob made a killing on them things.

Vampmaster
6th Feb 2015, 10:38
Id like a HD Remaster of the entire series...maybe some extra scenes and dialogue....and a real remaster, with Nosgoth level graphics in terms of quality.

When its finished port over Nosgoth (or port it first) for marketing and I bet it'd make a killing selling the skins, console gamers drop loads of cash for stuff like that, look at Gears 3 gun skins, prob made a killing on them things.

Would we ever get around to concluding the story? I've seen reboots/remakes where they get through the first one or two entries and then people lose interest and then they reboot again. I guess they could take some shortcuts like if one game has you playing as Kain in the SR1 era and they wanted to remake SR1, they could reuse some of the areas.

Ygdrasel
6th Feb 2015, 18:59
Would we ever get around to concluding the story? I've seen reboots/remakes where they get through the first one or two entries and then people lose interest and then they reboot again. I guess they could take some shortcuts like if one game has you playing as Kain in the SR1 era and they wanted to remake SR1, they could reuse some of the areas.

A reboot is a bad idea. Shortcuts are a bad idea. Adding scenes and dialogue is a bad idea. A reboot would just tear down every scrap of the series which is horrendously counterproductive to continuation of the saga. Shortcuts...Are shortcuts. Lazy and often awful. Adding scenes and dialogue just inexplicably alters the game/story for no real reason beyond "Yay, new stuff!". You want new scenes and dialogue, we'll need a new game. HD remakes of it all would be great, mind.

That said, I could get behind adding new things to old games - maybe - if it were something like an HD Soul Reaver with all the cut content finally brought to life. Turel's clan territory and fight (using the originally-planned Soul Reaver model) which would have to end with Turel fleeing before death or otherwise being spirited away for his eventual role in Defiance. Re-incorporating the peak of the Silenced Cathedral could work with vamps of all clans rallying in hordes to beat Raziel back but of course, that super-weapon would have to be destroyed before Raziel managed to use it - Perhaps this could be Zephon's doing prior to Raziel confronting him. And they could restore the cut portions of the Human Citadel and re-incorporate things like the Priestess and the Possession gift with new puzzles based around it.

That's the only way retroactive additions would work though if they could figure out ways to re-incorporate old material that got cut for time or budget without messing up established continuity.

SpectralWraith
6th Feb 2015, 19:40
Don't bother. Single-player games don't do well anymore.
Nosgoth will likely earn more for you guys than any of the legacy of kain games did.

Alien isolation, single player, one of the best games of the year

GenFeelGood
6th Feb 2015, 21:29
If the story is unchanged then what is wrong with a reboot? I understand the plight of the purists that wanna keep things as they remember; but what is wrong with redoing the series with what we can do now if it is done with the same degree of consideration for the original as has been done for Nosgoth?

Sanguise23
6th Feb 2015, 22:36
If the story is unchanged then what is wrong with a reboot? I understand the plight of the purists that wanna keep things as they remember; but what is wrong with redoing the series with what we can do now if it is done with the same degree of consideration for the original as has been done for Nosgoth?

I would be fine if a reboot stayed true, but thats an awful big IF. Most ppl probable think the risk is to high they would mess something up

GenFeelGood
6th Feb 2015, 22:54
I would be fine if a reboot stayed true, but thats an awful big IF. Most ppl probable think the risk is to high they would mess something up

That is why I vote that the reboot should be done by Psyonix, they have more than proven themselves.

Ygdrasel
6th Feb 2015, 23:25
If the story is unchanged then what is wrong with a reboot? I understand the plight of the purists that wanna keep things as they remember; but what is wrong with redoing the series with what we can do now if it is done with the same degree of consideration for the original as has been done for Nosgoth?

If the story is unchanged, it's not a reboot. :hmm:

A remake is a reconstruction done with modern techniques and technology. A reboot is a complete scrapping of all previous continuity to start a new story from scratch. And we never even finished the first story yet!

The 1998 film Psycho is a (lousy) remake of the original from 1960.
The Amazing Spider-Man is a reboot of 2002's Spider-Man.

And with all due respect to Psyonix, they have not proven themselves for such a task. Story-wise, they've got some great blog posts on the Nosgoth factions...But LoK's story is so much more than isolated blog entries.

GenFeelGood
7th Feb 2015, 04:01
If the story is unchanged, it's not a reboot. :hmm:

A remake is a reconstruction done with modern techniques and technology. A reboot is a complete scrapping of all previous continuity to start a new story from scratch. And we never even finished the first story yet!

The 1998 film Psycho is a (lousy) remake of the original from 1960.
The Amazing Spider-Man is a reboot of 2002's Spider-Man.
Granted, next time I'll check my wording a little better.

And with all due respect to Psyonix, they have not proven themselves for such a task. Story-wise, they've got some great blog posts on the Nosgoth factions...But LoK's story is so much more than isolated blog entries.
Maybe Square Enix can handle some elements, but I definitely would like Psyonix to handle the artistry and the combat mechanics.

Vampmaster
7th Feb 2015, 17:39
A reboot is a bad idea. Shortcuts are a bad idea. Adding scenes and dialogue is a bad idea. A reboot would just tear down every scrap of the series which is horrendously counterproductive to continuation of the saga. Shortcuts...Are shortcuts. Lazy and often awful. Adding scenes and dialogue just inexplicably alters the game/story for no real reason beyond "Yay, new stuff!". You want new scenes and dialogue, we'll need a new game. HD remakes of it all would be great, mind.

That said, I could get behind adding new things to old games - maybe - if it were something like an HD Soul Reaver with all the cut content finally brought to life. Turel's clan territory and fight (using the originally-planned Soul Reaver model) which would have to end with Turel fleeing before death or otherwise being spirited away for his eventual role in Defiance. Re-incorporating the peak of the Silenced Cathedral could work with vamps of all clans rallying in hordes to beat Raziel back but of course, that super-weapon would have to be destroyed before Raziel managed to use it - Perhaps this could be Zephon's doing prior to Raziel confronting him. And they could restore the cut portions of the Human Citadel and re-incorporate things like the Priestess and the Possession gift with new puzzles based around it.

That's the only way retroactive additions would work though if they could figure out ways to re-incorporate old material that got cut for time or budget without messing up established continuity.

You understand what I meant my shortcuts, right? If the story already has a reason for Kain to revisit an area he's already been and you already have up to date art assets for that area, then why should you bother to recreate it from scratch with some different tasks for the player?. Say you made a game were you play SR1 from Kain's point of view with his own things to do in that era. Then, if you wanted to remake SR1, you already have many of the areas implemented, so you only need a reduced production time.

Ygdrasel
7th Feb 2015, 23:47
You understand what I meant my shortcuts, right? If the story already has a reason for Kain to revisit an area he's already been and you already have up to date art assets for that area, then why should you bother to recreate it from scratch with some different tasks for the player?. Say you made a game were you play SR1 from Kain's point of view with his own things to do in that era. Then, if you wanted to remake SR1, you already have many of the areas implemented, so you only need a reduced production time.

I see...But there aren't up-to-date versions of any of that so I don't get why it was mentioned. o.o

realrabban
8th Feb 2015, 02:04
You know what the problem is with bringing back Legacy of Kain? No one feels prepared to take up that task. It takes solid writing to tell that story well. LOK was never about the gameplay. It was abut the story, characters, and dialogue. Someone else working on it now rather than the original core writers is like having someone else finish the Game of Thrones series other than G.R.R. Martin.

Ygdrasel
9th Feb 2015, 03:54
You know what the problem is with bringing back Legacy of Kain? No one feels prepared to take up that task. It takes solid writing to tell that story well. LOK was never about the gameplay. It was abut the story, characters, and dialogue. Someone else working on it now rather than the original core writers is like having someone else finish the Game of Thrones series other than G.R.R. Martin.

If only Amy Hennig were putting her talent toward great things instead of a Star Wars game... :(

But really, who are "the original core writers"? This series began with writers at Silicon Knights doing Blood Omen and then completely shifted hands. So it's not exactly unprecedented in this case. XD

I think any reasonably competent team with love for the actual product (rather than eyes full of nothing but dollar signs *coughEAcough*) could do fine, provided maybe they get Hennig to consult a bit.