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View Full Version : Things IO should keep from Absolution and others idea



mm24
22nd Aug 2014, 11:04
First, hello all

Wehn I read this forum, 70% of the suggestions are already in Blood Money. I understand that, Absolution made us all fear for the futur of the franchise, but I think that the devs understood that, so let's talk here about NEW things in Hitman Franchise, and things we should keep in Absolutions. Here is my ideas :

Things we should keep from Absolution :

_The dialogues, I really liked that in absolution, that the NPCs talk a lot, it had more immersion, and they could say somethings extremely important for the players, or simply diiscuss about the targets.

_I think that we should allow the player to do (if he want, no bonus if he did) the level with suit only in stealthy, for example, if the player want to be stealth, he can take out a guy, take his disguise, and kill the target like always, or use the cover system and try to reach his target with suit only if he want, but without a bonus in the end, maybe a Steam sucess but not more.

_Remove the silencers in game, when I am playing.

_Keep the cover system and the aiming system, but for the aiming system, please let us choose the camera because sometimes the camera was too closes to 47, let us choose the distance of the camera when we aim by pressing a button, and please, remove the "press a Shift to be more accurate", it was too annoying.

Now the new things :

_Add a LEVEL EDITOR, A REAL ONE, PLEASE. I think the community deserve more than Contract mode, why you don't allow us to create our owns levels, our owns targets. You could use Workshop for our levels creation (and why not guns ?). It have 3 majors advantage :
1.The game will sold more, people will say "Hey, this game have a level editor, so it have endless time life, it's a good buy", so more people will buy. Look for exemple at Counter Strike Source, it have been released in 2004, and thanks to his map editor and mods, people still play it.
2. You'r companies will have a great reputation, people for example love Valve because he allow his community to mods, same for Bohemia Interactive , Bethesda, and more. And more reputation = More $
3. Even if Hitman 6 have some horrible levels, people will still buy it because they can create they'r own levels.
And I think 99.99% of the Hitman community want this.

_A story like Blood Money, it was here but it was not always here. What I mean is that we know something is wrong, but it's only in the end that the problem was evident, but the contracts in all the game was the same (no Franchise agents who were 10 and alll point the guns at you, or not "there was no targets, it's a trap !" except the last level of course)

_More custom option, but a more complex one, not a "take all the last unlock, it's the best, don't have to think", so we can custom our weapons in a multi-situation but with good stats only weapons, a stealth weapon, or a assault weapon (for exemple, the best silencer should remove 25% of the damage that cause the weapon, but made the weapon 85 % more quiet, the best ammo make 45% more dammage, but make the weapons 30 % less quiet)

_Why not a customizable suit, with limited holster (for exemples, you can carry silverballers, 1 melee little weapons,like knife or Stiletto, 2 pistols, same type or 2 different one, one PM and one SMG or a little shotgun like this :http://payday.wikia.com/wiki/Locomotive_12G_%28Payday_2%29 sorry I forgot his real life name)

_Please, let us take melee weapons before we begin the level, this is something I really wanted with Blood Money.

_Add the hold you'r breath option when we use sniper, but without the slow motion effect. (or at least make us desactivate it)

_Add a 100% First person, I mean by that if you make us can use cover with FP, can lean, and can use iron sight to aim, it will be perfect, I reallly love FP camera but in the previous Hitman, we could not lean, this is why nobody used it.

_Why not a coop with ICA agents ,not 47 of course, like Splinter Cells, with it's own levels, it could be very cool to make a team of 3 and every body have a specific roles, like in Murders of the Crows.

And that's all, if you have idea please share them and discuss them, and tell me if you agree so IO will see this thread.

AGENT 58
22nd Aug 2014, 13:28
I like your ideas.
The Level editor would be great to see,but I think it would be hard to make.

Also what do you mean when you say "Remove the silencers in game,when I am playing"?
Do you want to start mission without silencers and put them on your guns when you want?

mm24
22nd Aug 2014, 15:57
I like your ideas.
The Level editor would be great to see,but I think it would be hard to make.

Also what do you mean when you say "Remove the silencers in game,when I am playing"?
Do you want to start mission without silencers and put them on your guns when you want?

Yes, in Absolution, you start with silencers, and you press Y to remove them.

But it better to start with silencer.

kewlak
22nd Aug 2014, 23:32
Things we should keep from Absolution :

_The dialogues, I really liked that in absolution, that the NPCs talk a lot, it had more immersion, and they could say somethings extremely important for the players, or simply diiscuss about the targets.
Overhearing is entertaining thing in games, but what was wrong in Abso was that NPCs' dialogues couldn't be skipped and your gameplay was often dependent on them. Example: NPCs blocked the way and you had to wait for them to finish their talk and start their routes (i hope that this issue was caused by levels' linearity, and it won't be problem on H6's larger maps). After many restarts needed to gain highest rank in mission you had to hear those discussions over and over again what was annoying. Those dialogues very often weren't useful to gain higher result in mission and were more about NPC's live than about mission itself.

I'd like NPC's dialogues to be more useful to kill main target, to find his location or to learn about his weakness. Dialogues may be sometimes funny like in Abso, but player shouldn't be forced to hear them. I think sometimes player should use more effort to overhear NPCs.

mm24
23rd Aug 2014, 09:07
Overhearing is entertaining thing in games, but what was wrong in Abso was that NPCs' dialogues couldn't be skipped and your gameplay was often dependent on them. Example: NPCs blocked the way and you had to wait for them to finish their talk and start their routes (i hope that this issue was caused by levels' linearity, and it won't be problem on H6's larger maps). After many restarts needed to gain highest rank in mission you had to hear those discussions over and over again what was annoying. Those dialogues very often weren't useful to gain higher result in mission and were more about NPC's live than about mission itself.

I'd like NPC's dialogues to be more useful to kill main target, to find his location or to learn about his weakness. Dialogues may be sometimes funny like in Abso, but player shouldn't be forced to hear them. I think sometimes player should use more effort to overhear NPCs.

I agree, the "hear the dialogue to make the guards leave" was annoying.

FootFetish4Life
23rd Aug 2014, 15:29
What I liked about Absolution was it's evolvement of narrative. The story itself and the nature of the story was hit or miss with people. Whether you liked the story or not, there's no denying that Absolution had a good narrative that didn't disrupt the game or hold it back. I think IO did an excellent job writing the script, developing the characters, casting the voice actors, etc. I would like that same foundation to return but in the world of Contracts or Blood Money, not in the world of Babysitter 47.

AdrianShephard
24th Aug 2014, 19:36
What I liked about Absolution was it's evolvement of narrative. The story itself and the nature of the story was hit or miss with people. Whether you liked the story or not, there's no denying that Absolution had a good narrative that didn't disrupt the game or hold it back. I think IO did an excellent job writing the script, developing the characters, casting the voice actors, etc.

Absolution absolutely held the game back! There weren't many assassination missions or varied areas because the narrative couldn't allow for it. The Run For Your Life missions, the ones often criticized, were a direct result of having to conform to a 'realistic' cohesive story. The way 47 is portrayed also goes against what we have come to expect about the character, that he is a cold professional killer; in many instances he falls into unlikely, amateur traps.

IO did do an excellent job with the NPC lines and especially voice-acting...the VOs are some of the best I've ever heard. I would have appreciated less swearing though, some of it is out of place and brings the overall quality of the writing down.

Also, does it make sense to you to write "Whether you liked the story or not, there's no denying that Absolution had a good narrative..."? That's similar to saying, "Whether you like pizza or not, there's no denying it's good". Somebody can certainly deny that the narrative is good and use evidence to back up the claim.

It all comes down to your taste of writing. Personally, I do not hold games that play out like generic-Hollywood movies highly (which Absolution certainly did). If the entire plot, character development, and premise of a game can fit into a 2-hour film, then there isn't enough depth/scope of material. There are exceptions to this, of course, and Red Dead Redemption may be the biggest one.

I don't know if you have played it, but RDR subconsciously plays out like movie without slapping violent explosions in cutscenes over your head. If you have watched a lot old Western movies, you'd really appreciate Rockstar's restraint in making just another GTA set in the Wild West. If you have the time (and interest), read this article about RDR's cinema influences (http://www.edge-online.com/features/red-dead-redemption-revisited/). Even small things like the high pulled back camera angle that gives you a panoramic of the landscape are meant to reflect the 35mm camera used in most Spaghetti Westerns. More obvious things include the sepia filter used when in Dead Eye (the slow motion mechanic) to give the game the Sergio Leone feel -- or an old time photograph. Anyway I digress...

AncientMyth
25th Aug 2014, 04:44
Hmm... These are some neat ideas. I agree with some and not with others, but I like how you're thinking outside the box, regardless. Here are my thoughts on a couple of them.


Dialogues

_The dialogues, I really liked that in absolution, that the NPCs talk a lot, it had more immersion, and they could say somethings extremely important for the players, or simply diiscuss about the targets.

Only if they occur as a part of existing routines. I don't want conversations to be triggered by my presence. I think it would be a lot more natural and functional if the conversations happen according to the NPCs' routines rather than 47's location. I think this is especially important considering the non-linear style that Hitman 6 is reportedly utilizing.


Choice

_I think that we should allow the player to do (if he want, no bonus if he did) the level with suit only in stealthy, for example, if the player want to be stealth, he can take out a guy, take his disguise, and kill the target like always, or use the cover system and try to reach his target with suit only if he want, but without a bonus in the end, maybe a Steam sucess but not more.

This idea is overflowing with the spirit of customizability, independence, choice, and sandbox gameplay... and I think that is exactly what we need from Hitman 6!


Level Editor

_Add a LEVEL EDITOR, A REAL ONE, PLEASE. I think the community deserve more than Contract mode, why you don't allow us to create our owns levels, our owns targets. You could use Workshop for our levels creation (and why not guns ?). It have 3 majors advantage :
1.The game will sold more, people will say "Hey, this game have a level editor, so it have endless time life, it's a good buy", so more people will buy. Look for exemple at Counter Strike Source, it have been released in 2004, and thanks to his map editor and mods, people still play it.
2. You'r companies will have a great reputation, people for example love Valve because he allow his community to mods, same for Bohemia Interactive , Bethesda, and more. And more reputation = More $
3. Even if Hitman 6 have some horrible levels, people will still buy it because they can create they'r own levels.
And I think 99.99% of the Hitman community want this.

This is definitely something that I want for a Hitman game, but not for Hitman 6. Primarily, it is important (to me, personally, subjectively) that IOI focus on creating a prime experience in the main game. I want them to focus on that entirely for now. Furthermore, this will be their first game of the new generation of console hardware, so they also need to focus on learning how to best develop for these new systems. (This is a normal part of game development with each console generation.)

In a later iteration of Hitman, I would absolutely love to see a level editor implemented. I would want it to be fully-fledged; well thought-out; and highly, highly, highly customizable. As such, it would probably take a ton of time to properly design and code.


Customizable Suit

_Why not a customizable suit, with limited holster (for exemples, you can carry silverballers, 1 melee little weapons,like knife or Stiletto, 2 pistols, same type or 2 different one, one PM and one SMG or a little shotgun like this :http://payday.wikia.com/wiki/Locomotive_12G_%28Payday_2%29 sorry I forgot his real life name)

I know I am probably alone on this, but I personally like old-school style shooters where you can carry as many guns with you as you happen to have. No limits. I know it is not realistic, but every piece of media contains a reality barrier that must be jumped.


Melée Weapons

_Please, let us take melee weapons before we begin the level, this is something I really wanted with Blood Money.

What if we could also take disguises with us? Finish a level with a disguise and you can take it into any level on any subsequent playthrough. I know it doesn't fit the story and it could make some playthroughs way too easy (already having access to the FBI outfit, for example), but in the name of open sandbox gameplay: why not?


Also, I agree with absolutely 100% of the content of Adrian Shephard's post immediately above.

FootFetish4Life
25th Aug 2014, 08:59
I know I am probably alone on this, but I personally like old-school style shooters where you can carry as many guns with you as you happen to have. No limits. I know it is not realistic, but every piece of media contains a reality barrier that must be jumped.

No more "magic pockets", that's one of the promises IO made clear and Hitman is not the type of game for that.

It detracts from the strategy aspect of Hitman. 47 has a suitcase for his sniper rifle and everything on his person are small concealable items. There are certain games that work better when they're 90% realism and 10% fantasy. Hitman is one of those games along with other stealth or survival games. Go play GTA if you want that 1 to 1 ratio of reality vs fantasy.

FootFetish4Life
25th Aug 2014, 09:23
Absolution absolutely held the game back! There weren't many assassination missions or varied areas because the narrative couldn't allow for it. The Run For Your Life missions, the ones often criticized, were a direct result of having to conform to a 'realistic' cohesive story. The way 47 is portrayed also goes against what we have come to expect about the character, that he is a cold professional killer; in many instances he falls into unlikely, amateur traps.

IO did do an excellent job with the NPC lines and especially voice-acting...the VOs are some of the best I've ever heard. I would have appreciated less swearing though, some of it is out of place and brings the overall quality of the writing down.

Also, does it make sense to you to write "Whether you liked the story or not, there's no denying that Absolution had a good narrative..."? That's similar to saying, "Whether you like pizza or not, there's no denying it's good". Somebody can certainly deny that the narrative is good and use evidence to back up the claim.

It all comes down to your taste of writing. Personally, I do not hold games that play out like generic-Hollywood movies highly (which Absolution certainly did). If the entire plot, character development, and premise of a game can fit into a 2-hour film, then there isn't enough depth/scope of material. There are exceptions to this, of course, and Red Dead Redemption may be the biggest one.

I don't know if you have played it, but RDR subconsciously plays out like movie without slapping violent explosions in cutscenes over your head. If you have watched a lot old Western movies, you'd really appreciate Rockstar's restraint in making just another GTA set in the Wild West. If you have the time (and interest), read this article about RDR's cinema influences (http://www.edge-online.com/features/red-dead-redemption-revisited/). Even small things like the high pulled back camera angle that gives you a panoramic of the landscape are meant to reflect the 35mm camera used in most Spaghetti Westerns. More obvious things include the sepia filter used when in Dead Eye (the slow motion mechanic) to give the game the Sergio Leone feel -- or an old time photograph. Anyway I digress...

I was talking about the script, dialogue, etc. I agree, the plot restricted the gameplay and called for linear levels. But I do think the characters were developed better in Absolution, even though the story did seem like Hollywood streamlined BS. I think that's the point I was trying to make.

And I have played Red Dead Redemption. Great game. R* did a very good job of virtually placing the player inside an old spaghetti western flick. The irony, is I was watching a western movie for the first time around the time I read this post, the movie Unforgiven. Great flick. The similarities between that movie and Red Dead Redemption are uncanny. I enjoyed the movie so much I popped in my Red Dead Blu Ray and started the campaign again.

I think it may be difficult to deliver a good story consistently without affecting the gameplay. I'm sure IO will deliver something good, tho.

mm24
25th Aug 2014, 11:11
I think it may be difficult to deliver a good story consistently without affecting the gameplay. I'm sure IO will deliver something good, tho.

This is exactly what they did with Blood Money :)

Sorry I don't know how to add more than 1 quote, and I'm french, so I may have a bad english, I apologize for that .

"
What if we could also take disguises with us? Finish a level with a disguise and you can take it into any level on any subsequent playthrough. I know it doesn't fit the story and it could make some playthroughs way too easy (already having access to the FBI outfit, for example), but in the name of open sandbox gameplay: why not?"

I think it's a great bonus when we finish the game once, it could add more possibility.

"I know I am probably alone on this, but I personally like old-school style shooters where you can carry as many guns with you as you happen to have. No limits. I know it is not realistic, but every piece of media contains a reality barrier that must be jumped.
"

I understand you, I'm 16 but I love old games like Half Life (and Yes , I played Opposing Forces, and I love Shephard, hope he will be back again in Half Life 3 :) ) or Max Payne, they were infinite pocket in those times , but it don't fit Hitman :/ But I agree that a game shouldn't be 100 % realistic except if it's the aim of this game (SWAT for example)

I think something they should bring back is the cheats codes, it was always fun to press ² and type Invisible 1 to see how NPCs react after you finished the game.

Also, they should allow us to remove HUD by pressing a little button, so even a player who plays in Easy don't have to go in Purist mode to add a more cinematic experience.

I think IO have to create a disguise system between Blood Money and Hitman 2, in Blood Money you could run in front of them, they just watch you and do nothing (but the AI was great) and in Silent Assasin, they shoot at you. For example, if 2 guards are talking, one is leaving to the bathroom and the other stay in front of the bathrrom, make that if the guards see you enter the bathroom with suit and then leaving it with guards outfit, he becomes suspicious ? Because he saw his friend when he get in the bathroom but a new hole face go out from it ? It's a suggestion, what do you think ?

Also, when we press B to see the brifieng in game, make us see our actual rating, so we can avoid the situation when you aim SA but for some reason, you subdue an NPC and he count as a witness so you have Agent.


Also, bring back the keys from BM, what I mean by that if when you have 4 weapons under you'r feets, you just hold Space and use movement keys to choose what you want to pick up, in Absolution, you had to move 47 and the camera to finally take the weapon you want.

AncientMyth
25th Aug 2014, 15:59
I understand you, I'm 16 but I love old games like Half Life (and Yes , I played Opposing Forces, and I love Shephard, hope he will be back again in Half Life 3 :) ) or Max Payne, they were infinite pocket in those times , but it don't fit Hitman :/ But I agree that a game shouldn't be 100 % realistic except if it's the aim of this game (SWAT for example)


Hmm... You know, I totally did not mean to advocate for magic pockets. I think that portion of my post was poorly worded. In the older games you could carry around a large number of small concealed items. Multiple pistols, tasers, key cards, mines, sedatives, etc. Your inventory, so to speak, could become quite large.



Go play GTA if you want that 1 to 1 ratio of reality vs fantasy.

My, aren't we friendly?




Also, they should allow us to remove HUD by pressing a little button, so even a player who plays in Easy don't have to go in Purist mode to add a more cinematic experience.


Yes, please, though it could even be a back-end option in the Options menu. Choice is always better, especially in Hitman.




I think IO have to create a disguise system between Blood Money and Hitman 2, in Blood Money you could run in front of them, they just watch you and do nothing (but the AI was great) and in Silent Assasin, they shoot at you. For example, if 2 guards are talking, one is leaving to the bathroom and the other stay in front of the bathrrom, make that if the guards see you enter the bathroom with suit and then leaving it with guards outfit, he becomes suspicious ? Because he saw his friend when he get in the bathroom but a new hole face go out from it ? It's a suggestion, what do you think ?


This is a neat idea, though it may be too complex to program properly (I could be wrong). If not coded just right, the behavior could apply when it shouldn't or fail to apply when it should. If it is limited to specific context-sensitive cues, it could feel gimmicky. Still, if they could pull it off, it would add an interesting element to the gameplay.

AdrianShephard
25th Aug 2014, 21:37
...I love old games like Half Life (and Yes , I played Opposing Forces, and I love Shephard, hope he will be back again in Half Life 3 :) )

Not putting Shephard in HL2 was a slap in the face to all OpFor fans (better than original IMO). They even included Barney....and his expansion didn't add any thing new to the formula! Really hoping he is a playable character and not just a cameo.

FootFetish4Life
25th Aug 2014, 22:41
My, aren't we friendly?

Sorry. I didn't mean to lash out. Bad choice of wording, I guess.

AncientMyth
26th Aug 2014, 03:12
No problem. Text can only convey a small portion of human communication; the rest (inflection, sarcasm, tone, body language, etc.) gets lost.