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View Full Version : Vote With Your Wallet And Don't Allow Third Party Exclusivity In The Industry. Enough



Sony_prophet
13th Aug 2014, 23:23
Microsoft and Crystal Dynamics announced a timed-exclusive deal that effectively cuts off 3/4 of their fanbase. Exclusivity deals like this do nothing but hurt gamers and the industry

I know most people will say whatever but just hear me out. I don't expect you to never buy the title like me but buy it used, buy on Ebay, share with all the everyone or <mod edit>. Whatever you can so Crystal Dynamics never sees that money.

Thank you! Happy Gaming!

Weemanply109
13th Aug 2014, 23:25
Dat username.

Just don't buy an Xbone and the Xbone version. They'll take the hint.

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 07:01
Microsoft and Crystal Dynamics announced a timed-exclusive deal that effectively cuts off 3/4 of their fanbase. Exclusivity deals like this do nothing but hurt gamers and the industry

I know most people will say whatever but just hear me out. I don't expect you to never buy the title like me but buy it used, buy on Ebay, share with all the everyone or <mod edit>. Whatever you can so Crystal Dynamics never sees that money.

Thank you! Happy Gaming!

While you may not like the deal that has been done, surely you love TR or you wouldn't be here. SE must have made the deal because it is lucrative, and if that is so surely by making money they can continue to make the game series that we love.

I understand that you may be annoyed, but isn't this just cutting off your nose to spite your face? (I don't believe for a minute that people boycotting the game will have much effect on sales because once it is out people will buy it.)

Jurre
14th Aug 2014, 07:17
Dat username.

Just don't buy an Xbone and the Xbone version. They'll take the hint.

Yeah, sounds good...

If it were an infinate exclusive I would support a total boycot, but this will do fine.

QiX
14th Aug 2014, 07:25
While you may not like the deal that has been done, surely you love TR or you wouldn't be here. SE must have made the deal because it is lucrative, and if that is so surely by making money they can continue to make the game series that we love.

See the poll in the other thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=153453): currently 67 No / 9 Yes. This makes about 7.5 people NOT buying the game for each person willing to. We all want to guarantee that they have lucrative deals so they can keep making the game series that we love. We want to buy games in order for them to keep making games. This is lucrative. We pay, we get new games. One software corporation giving money so 7 out of 8 Tomb Raider fans CANNOT play the next game is not lucrative. We don't get a game, the producers and publishers sell less copies, the game series looses fans. This is lucrative for Microsoft only. They want to boost sales of their console. They couldn't care less about Tomb Raider and the supporting community.


I understand that you may be annoyed, but isn't this just cutting off your nose to spite your face? (I don't believe for a minute that people boycotting the game will have much effect on sales because once it is out people will buy it.)

I'm not boycotting anything. I'm being boycotted. Not buying a game released for a platform I do not own (mine is by the way a PC running Microsoft Windows) is no boycott.

d1n0_xD
14th Aug 2014, 09:52
See the poll in the other thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=153453): currently 67 No / 9 Yes. This makes about 7.5 people NOT buying the game for each person willing to. We all want to guarantee that they have lucrative deals so they can keep making the game series that we love. We want to buy games in order for them to keep making games. This is lucrative. We pay, we get new games. One software corporation giving money so 7 out of 8 Tomb Raider fans CANNOT play the next game is not lucrative. We don't get a game, the producers and publishers sell less copies, the game series looses fans. This is lucrative for Microsoft only. They want to boost sales of their console. They couldn't care less about Tomb Raider and the supporting community.



I'm not boycotting anything. I'm being boycotted. Not buying a game released for a platform I do not own (mine is by the way a PC running Microsoft Windows) is no boycott.

Preach it! :worship:

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 09:59
They couldn't care less about Tomb Raider and the supporting community.

...and some of the community don't care about CD/SE. How do you know this deal isn't part of their survival? How do you know that without this deal that the next TR would struggle to be developed? I am not defending anyone, just putting an opposing viewpoint. Again, the point is that it isn't in their interest to not release the game on other platforms.

Also CD have in the past shown enough on this forum alone to show that they DO care about their community so I think you are wrong to say this.




I'm not boycotting anything. I'm being boycotted. Not buying a game released for a platform I do not own (mine is by the way a PC running Microsoft Windows) is no boycott.

So will you buy it when it is released on PC? As XB1 is my next console of choice I will happily buy it new, and a special edition if there is one I like the look of. If I was going to get a PS4 I would do the same, I would just need to wait a few more weeks.

CroftManiac
14th Aug 2014, 10:06
See the poll in the other thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=153453): currently 67 No / 9 Yes. This makes about 7.5 people NOT buying the game for each person willing to. We all want to guarantee that they have lucrative deals so they can keep making the game series that we love. We want to buy games in order for them to keep making games. This is lucrative. We pay, we get new games. One software corporation giving money so 7 out of 8 Tomb Raider fans CANNOT play the next game is not lucrative. We don't get a game, the producers and publishers sell less copies, the game series looses fans. This is lucrative for Microsoft only. They want to boost sales of their console. They couldn't care less about Tomb Raider and the supporting community.



I'm not boycotting anything. I'm being boycotted. Not buying a game released for a platform I do not own (mine is by the way a PC running Microsoft Windows) is no boycott.

It might come to Pc too.... I think M$ wants to outsell ps4 sales , due to low xbone sales...

Flintmelody
14th Aug 2014, 11:52
If we don't buy the game at all MS will then say look at how few copies sold on PS4/PC and then use that to do it again.


Also CD have in the past shown enough on this forum alone to show that they DO care about their community so I think you are wrong to say this.

MeaganMarie was the main person who actually cared and not just because that was her role.

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 11:55
MeaganMarie was the main person who actually cared and not just because that was her role.

Meagan was indeed the official mouthpiece in her role however look at all the Q&A's, audio blogs, interviews etc where CD clearly showed they valued the community input. They didn't have to have that kind of dialogue. They could have just done what they wanted and put it out regardless. I am not suggesting they are perfect, but to suggest they don't care is IMO wrong.

pidipidi39
14th Aug 2014, 11:59
They could have just done what they wanted and put it out regardless.
Which is what they're doing now.

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 12:07
Which is what they're doing now.

So your saying that CD have not included any fan feedback in the development of ROTTR which is the counter to the claim that they don't care about the community?

pidipidi39
14th Aug 2014, 12:30
So your saying that CD have not included any fan feedback in the development of ROTTR which is the counter to the claim that they don't care about the community?
Nope, sorry, my fault. :o
I misread your post.

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 12:34
Nope, sorry, my fault. :o
I misread your post.

No probs! :thumb: :)

Metalrocks
14th Aug 2014, 13:52
at the moment im still between if i should get it or not. if or once this game is out for PC.

its clear that M$ tries now everything to sell their box as much as they can. just pretending if they care so much for TR or not, thats something we will never know for sure.

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 13:56
at the moment im still between if i should get it or not. if or once this game is out for PC.

its clear that M$ tries now everything to sell their box as much as they can. just pretending if they care so much for TR or not, thats something we will never know for sure.

I don't think MS care for the actual game as such, just for what it can do for them in terms of sales for the Xbox. To them it's just a popular game. It could be any game TBH. They could have done it with Watchdogs, Assassins Creed or Arkham.

a_big_house
14th Aug 2014, 14:01
I don't think MS care for the actual game as such, just for what it can do for them in terms of sales for the Xbox. To them it's just a popular game. It could be any game TBH. They could have done it with Watchdogs, Assassins Creed or Arkham.

For all we know, they tried but were turned down :whistle:

But then, I don't think Ubisoft would risk losing sales like that anyway :lol:

Metalrocks
14th Aug 2014, 14:03
For all we know, they tired but were turned down :whistle:

But then, I don't think Ubisoft would risk losing sales like that anyway :lol:

yeah, ubi is generally not at the most loved company by gamers list. i still keep buying their games though but they do work. so far i never had any issue with their AC games. or recently, child of light.

Murphdawg1
14th Aug 2014, 14:22
Meagan was indeed the official mouthpiece in her role however look at all the Q&A's, audio blogs, interviews etc where CD clearly showed they valued the community input. They didn't have to have that kind of dialogue. They could have just done what they wanted and put it out regardless. I am not suggesting they are perfect, but to suggest they don't care is IMO wrong.

So where are they now? Day 2 after their terrible PR blunder. You'd think they'd be coming here to clarify things after the backlash they have taken. The longer they wait the chances of any game info they put out could get trolled by bitter fans wanting answers.

Deltoran
14th Aug 2014, 14:27
They probably can't say anything. Microsoft was being generous by even offering the 'duration' statement. Here's hoping I'm wrong and they apologize (a real apology) and explain exactly what this exclusive entails.

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 14:35
So where are they now? Day 2 after their terrible PR blunder. You'd think they'd be coming here to clarify things after the backlash they have taken. The longer they wait the chances of any game info they put out could get trolled by bitter fans wanting answers.

How much of a PR blunder it is is subjective. CD won't be allowed to comment because SE has told them not to. SE won't clarify things because they don't want to compromise their deal. At some stage the details of the Xbox exclusivity will out and so will the PC/PS4 release date. In 14 to 16 months time when the PC/PS4 versions are released (my prediction) people will buy it or they won't regardless (in the main) of what is said now or in the future (barring terrible reviews). They expected an outcry and got it. They knew they would. When you are in business you take these decisions and roll with any punches. Like it or not that's the truth, and if people want answers now don't hold your breath.

CroftManiac
14th Aug 2014, 14:42
How much of a PR blunder it is is subjective. CD won't be allowed to comment because SE has told them not to. SE won't clarify things because they don't want to compromise their deal. At some stage the details of the Xbox exclusivity will out and so will the PC/PS4 release date. In 14 to 16 months time when the PC/PS4 versions are released (my prediction) people will buy it or they won't regardless (in the main) of what is said now or in the future (barring terrible reviews). They expected an outcry and got it. They knew they would. When you are in business you take these decisions and roll with any punches. Like it or not that's the truth, and if people want answers now don't hold your breath.

Totally agree :thumb: :thumb: . But I don't think SE would risk THAT MUCH.
But as you said , time cures everything!!

Metalrocks
14th Aug 2014, 15:04
Totally agree :thumb: :thumb: . But I don't think SE would risk THAT MUCH.
But as you said , time cures everything!!

this or by keeping us waiting even more, people will still be frustrated, if not even more.

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 15:04
Here's a good critical article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/08/12/why-rise-of-the-tomb-raiders-exclusivity-deal-is-a-prehistoric-relic/

kiss-bite
14th Aug 2014, 15:14
I enjoyed reading that...

Leon S. Kennedy
14th Aug 2014, 15:21
While you may not like the deal that has been done, surely you love TR or you wouldn't be here. SE must have made the deal because it is lucrative, and if that is so surely by making money they can continue to make the game series that we love.

I understand that you may be annoyed, but isn't this just cutting off your nose to spite your face? (I don't believe for a minute that people boycotting the game will have much effect on sales because once it is out people will buy it.)

Honestly I don't think deal has anything to do with making Tomb Raider better. Square Enix was upset with Tomb Raider sales, but only because that game was expected to make for their failure with the Final Fantasy last generation. I don't think this money is being reinvested to make Tomb Raider better. It might help them finish Final Fantasy XV or Kingdom Hearts 3. I don't think SE cares about this franchise like their own games. It is a source of income to them and nothing more.

Metalrocks
14th Aug 2014, 15:21
But don’t take my word for it, here’s how Darrell Gallagher, head of studios at Crystal Dynamics, explained the decision to get into bed with Microsoft on the Tomb Raider Tumblr:

this just cracked me up :lol:

Leon S. Kennedy
14th Aug 2014, 15:25
For all we know, they tried but were turned down :whistle:

But then, I don't think Ubisoft would risk losing sales like that anyway :lol:

There is an interview with Phil Spencer about the TR deal where he says most 3rd party publishers have no desire to go exclusive. I am going to infer from that Microsoft approached a lot publishers to buy games and SE was the only to bite for whatever reason.

dark7angel
14th Aug 2014, 15:32
More developers should be like CD Project Red:

"We are treating all gamers equally. We'll not deliver exclusive content to any of the platforms, nor will we artificially delay release of the game on any of the platforms because somebody's paying us money for that. It's definitely against our values. We are not doing that."

pidipidi39
14th Aug 2014, 15:39
More developers should be like CD Project Red:

"We are treating all gamers equally. We'll not deliver exclusive content to any of the platforms, nor will we artificially delay release of the game on any of the platforms because somebody's paying us money for that. It's definitely against our values. We are not doing that."
Yus. Preach it, CD Project Red! :D

Leon S. Kennedy
14th Aug 2014, 15:39
More developers should be like CD Project Red:

"We are treating all gamers equally. We'll not deliver exclusive content to any of the platforms, nor will we artificially delay release of the game on any of the platforms because somebody's paying us money for that. It's definitely against our values. We are not doing that."

The Witcher 3 is going to be an amazing game and I am excited to see how Cyberpunk 2077 shapes up. And yes CD Projekt Red seems to be the model of integrity most studios should follow.

Valenka
14th Aug 2014, 15:53
More developers should be like CD Project Red:

"We are treating all gamers equally. We'll not deliver exclusive content to any of the platforms, nor will we artificially delay release of the game on any of the platforms because somebody's paying us money for that. It's definitely against our values. We are not doing that."

I never thought I'd see a decent business practice like this ever gain. Kudos to them.

QiX
14th Aug 2014, 17:10
...and some of the community don't care about CD/SE. How do you know this deal isn't part of their survival? How do you know that without this deal that the next TR would struggle to be developed? I am not defending anyone, just putting an opposing viewpoint. Again, the point is that it isn't in their interest to not release the game on other platforms.

Also CD have in the past shown enough on this forum alone to show that they DO care about their community so I think you are wrong to say this.

The part of the community that doesn't care about CD/SE is no longer a 'supporting community', their loss. A gaming company wont survive it they don't sell games for people willing to pay for their games. It's in their interest, really? After all the backlash for a huge fiasco they come and announce the exclusivity deal is temporary, we don't see any further information, expected release dates, for what platforms, nothing officially confirmed. Really?

It's been a while now and the whole series was rebooted in the meanwhile, but I played Underworld and never had the chance to see how Natla really dies in the end, how it feels to play the Doppleganger. Games tell stories. You can't expect me to believe that they care if we don't even get the full story to play. They DO care, are you sure?


So will you buy it when it is released on PC? As XB1 is my next console of choice I will happily buy it new, and a special edition if there is one I like the look of. If I was going to get a PS4 I would do the same, I would just need to wait a few more weeks.

No, I won't. Not with thew current status of this issue. I feel neglected and disrespected. I'm no less fan than anyone here, but I'm no sheep.


More developers should be like CD Project Red:

"We are treating all gamers equally. We'll not deliver exclusive content to any of the platforms, nor will we artificially delay release of the game on any of the platforms because somebody's paying us money for that. It's definitely against our values. We are not doing that."

As dark7angel posted, the word here is 'values'. Call me old fashioned, but you don't put money before values and expect people will be OK with it.

Weemanply109
14th Aug 2014, 20:27
More developers should be like CD Project Red:

"We are treating all gamers equally. We'll not deliver exclusive content to any of the platforms, nor will we artificially delay release of the game on any of the platforms because somebody's paying us money for that. It's definitely against our values. We are not doing that."

I completely agree. Also don't forget that they're pushing to get rid of DRM aswell. :worship: I love how they value their customers. Could you imagine if they were developing TR? :cool:

Valenka
14th Aug 2014, 20:56
I completely agree. Also don't forget that they're pushing to get rid of DRM aswell. :worship: I love how they value their customers. Could you imagine if they were developing TR? :cool:

Could you imagine if they were developing every game? Or at least, if every company followed in their example? :D

BiPoLaR_X
14th Aug 2014, 21:09
Will not be buying this game even its on sale or used. I even have an Xbox One but I have a PS4 also. PlayStation is where I want my Tomb Raider. Its where a lot of us want it. A lot of us want it on PC also. Xbox releases have never bothered me, but it better be on the other 2 platforms as well. I'm looking forward to watching lets plays of this game :)

Sony_prophet
15th Aug 2014, 01:51
While you may not like the deal that has been done, surely you love TR or you wouldn't be here. SE must have made the deal because it is lucrative, and if that is so surely by making money they can continue to make the game series that we love.

I understand that you may be annoyed, but isn't this just cutting off your nose to spite your face? (I don't believe for a minute that people boycotting the game will have much effect on sales because once it is out people will buy it.)

That's where your wrong! If CD made another great Tomb Raider, the fee that was pocketed was for exclusivity would look like chump change.

Now that they got their money, who's to say that this game is any good. What's the point? They have already been paid.

Not only does it hurt gamers but it hurts the industry. Itstead of making a great game and making a ton of money, they took the easy route and made good money.

If SE listened to their fans and didn't have their head up their $%^. They wouldn't need to even think about making deals like this.

EA and CD gave a big middle finger to ALL GAMERS and said "lets take a vacation,". That's great! Will they ever return? Probably not.

Valenka
15th Aug 2014, 12:54
Will not be buying this game even its on sale or used.

Well, that's just foolish.
If you were to buy ROTTR used, the money wouldn't even go to the company, it would go to the store where you bought the game.

So you can refuse to support the developer but still play the game, but you're denying yourself even that.

Jurre
15th Aug 2014, 13:38
Will not be buying this game even its on sale or used. I even have an Xbox One but I have a PS4 also.



Well, that's just foolish.
If you were to buy ROTTR used, the money wouldn't even go to the company, it would go to the store where you bought the game.

So you can refuse to support the developer but still play the game, but you're denying yourself even that.
Does the Xbox One still require second hand users to pay a fee before they can play the game? If so, he has a point. If not, you can safely buy a used copy on Xbox One, which are probably already available a few days after launch, and indulge yourself, knowing you didn't pay a cent to the Antichrist :D

dandins
15th Aug 2014, 13:58
my wallet will vote for ps4 and only because microsoft was about to kill all the freedom of all gamers last year. M$ tryed hard but at the end gamers won that fight. ( with help from sony)

Never forget this war last year - if sony didnt choose the players it would be all over now.

Gamers out there!! Never forget this!!

DrCroft
16th Aug 2014, 14:18
Once or even if it is announced for PS4 I will preorder/buy it. Mainly because I do want the TR franchise to continue. I am just showing with my money the system I prefer. You know, if it this whole thing was about system limits like it was with Sega and Playstation for TR2 then fair enough. One particular system couldn't handle it/was much harder to develop for with improvements. Both the X1 and PS4 and most certainly PC can all handle it so the rest is just business reason.

FalloftheTR
16th Aug 2014, 14:30
A little overly dramatic for my tastes, but I am holding off for the technically superior PS4 version, and if its not improved, then we'll know they spread themselves too thin across multiple plat

drkl0rd2000
16th Aug 2014, 16:40
While you may not like the deal that has been done, surely you love TR or you wouldn't be here. SE must have made the deal because it is lucrative, and if that is so surely by making money they can continue to make the game series that we love.

I understand that you may be annoyed, but isn't this just cutting off your nose to spite your face? (I don't believe for a minute that people boycotting the game will have much effect on sales because once it is out people will buy it.)

There are several true points here. People will claim to boycott it but then the minute it is released they will be first in line with the Xbox One and the game. To many armchair boycotters. This is the reason these deals continue to be successful.

However I am a first generation gamer, old school I remember the Atari 2600 and the TSR 80. As such I am not swayed by shiny things so it will be easy to boycott the game and will not buy it or an Xbox one. Perhaps if the game comes out on other platforms I may reverse my decision but for now it stands.

Murphdawg1
16th Aug 2014, 17:21
Damn. This whole thing with Tomb Raider has gotten you all so testy and hostile. Take a breath and relax, no one's out to get you.

I hope you can at least understand why, you have an Xbox One I presume so none of this impacts you. You can at least be understanding to the frustrations of other platform holders.

The_Hylden
16th Aug 2014, 17:34
Well, that's just foolish.
If you were to buy ROTTR used, the money wouldn't even go to the company, it would go to the store where you bought the game.

So you can refuse to support the developer but still play the game, but you're denying yourself even that.

BiPoLaR_X's post continues:


...PlayStation is where I want my Tomb Raider. Its where a lot of us want it. A lot of us want it on PC also. Xbox releases have never bothered me, but it better be on the other 2 platforms as well. I'm looking forward to watching lets plays of this game ;)

Sounds like BiPoLaR_X hasn't seen the news of it being confirmed as a timed release yet, maybe. Regardless of the reason they might not buy, everyone's entitled to buy, or not to buy the game.


I wasn't being condescending and I didn't mean to offend you. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump down someone's throat based on miscommunication.

Asking if someone's been under a rock the past year, as in, completely oblivious to things, is not exactly just "asking a question" It's not overly harsh, but if someone takes offense, apologizing for it and in the same breath, telling him that he should not jump down your throat for telling you that he is offended by it, is not quite how it's done. ;)

Jurre, also let's not perpetuate the argument. Please everyone stay on target... which is not each other :p

The posts in question have been deleted. Please do not continue things here.

Valenka
16th Aug 2014, 18:08
I hope you can at least understand why, you have an Xbox One I presume so none of this impacts you. You can at least be understanding to the frustrations of other platform holders.

Your presumption is entirely false. It does impact me the same way it impacts everyone. A decision based upon what amounts to greed has devastated a community that I love. :)

I do understand everything, Murph. I don't mean to be rude, but since day one I've empathised, sympathised and agreed with a lot of what everyone's been saying and I'm quite tired of defending and repeating myself. :o

I'm just really tired of all of this; yes, I understand everyone is upset and for good reason, too. I just wish we can all come to terms with the fact that we can't change what's happened and instead, keep an eye on development and go back to actually talking about Tomb Raider. At least for a little while. :)


Sounds like BiPoLaR_X hasn't seen the news of it being confirmed as a timed release yet, maybe. Regardless of the reason they might not buy, everyone's entitled to buy, or not to buy the game.

I understand that, but the point I was trying to make is that this is indeed the Tomb Raider community and I think I'm right in saying that everyone wants to play every Tomb Raider game. I did read his/her entire post, as I always do, but BiPoLaR_X's statement that I addressed didn't have anything do with whether or not it was a timed exclusive; I was directing my rebuttal toward their statement that they weren't buying the game whatsoever, which I believe to be a poor choice, given the fact that a Tomb Raider fan is denying themselves the chance to play a game in a franchise they love, regardless of what platform it's released on first. That's all. :)


Asking if someone's been under a rock the past year, as in, completely oblivious to things, is not exactly just "asking a question" It's not overly harsh, but if someone takes offense, apologizing for it and in the same breath, telling him that he should not jump down your throat for telling you that he is offended by it, is not quite how it's done. ;)

With all due respect, I meant no harm by that comment and while my apology was genuine, I don't apologise for my statement of jumping down throats, because the simple fact is, it's not right to simply assume that someone's statement was hostile just because it isn't worded in a way you'd prefer. All one would have had to have done was say something along the lines of, "Well what do you mean by that? I hope that wasn't meant to be a rude tone." To which of course, I would have apologised for giving the wrong impression and explained myself.

I don't really understand why I was reprimanded for apologising and suggesting that maybe next time, one shouldn't be so quick to make accusations. :scratch:

I respect you and your word as a staff member, The Hylden, and I hope you don't take my response as insubordination, I just feel like I had to defend myself for a moment as I felt you inadvertently took it out of context. :)

The_Hylden
16th Aug 2014, 19:11
That wasn't a reprimand. No-one was infracted :p And I responded, while trying to say please do not continue this here, because I was not the only one who apparently took it out of context and it was about to get worse.

Now, onto voting with our wallets, shall we? :)

Driber
16th Aug 2014, 19:17
I'm just really tired of all of this; yes, I understand everyone is upset and for good reason, too. I just wish we can all come to terms with the fact that we can't change what's happened

I get where you're coming from, Mason, but please understand that a lot of people are simply not ready to move on just yet. Keep in mind that it has only been a few days, and that the events of earlier this week has impacted the fanbase as a whole in an unprecedented way.

Wanting people to move when it's basically still so fresh in their minds is not entirely reasonable IMHO.


With all due respect, I meant no harm by that comment and while my apology was genuine, I don't apologise for my statement of jumping down throats, because the simple fact is, it's not right to simply assume that someone's statement was hostile just because it isn't worded in a way you'd prefer. All one would have had to have done was say something along the lines of, "Well what do you mean by that? I hope that wasn't meant to be a rude tone." To which of course, I would have apologised for giving the wrong impression and explained myself.

I don't really understand why I was reprimanded for apologising and suggesting that maybe next time, one shouldn't be so quick to make accusations. :scratch:

I respect you and your word as a staff member, The Hylden, and I hope you don't take my response as insubordination, I just feel like I had to defend myself for a moment as I felt you inadvertently took it out of context. :)

Mason, when you issue an apology, you shouldn't follow it up by saying "next time don't be so sensitive". It undermines the genuineness of your apology, plain and simple.

Remember what I told you about that fanboy article you reacted to ;)

Now, please, let's move on, as my colleague said :)

Edit: TH posted while I was writing this. Sorry for accidentally "doubling down", heh.

Valenka
16th Aug 2014, 19:37
Every time I hear the phrase "vote with your wallet," all I can picture is people putting their wallets into ballet boxes.

Driber
16th Aug 2014, 19:40
HA, that actually wouldn't even be such a bad metaphor, given the high level of corruption in today's governments. The voting public indeed might as well just throw bank notes into the ballet boxes :lol:

Error96_
16th Aug 2014, 19:59
I'm just really tired of all of this; yes, I understand everyone is upset and for good reason, too. I just wish we can all come to terms with the fact that we can't change what's happened and instead, keep an eye on development and go back to actually talking about Tomb Raider. At least for a little while. :)

This deal that happened is terrible and it's going to happen again. If you read the statement by Darrell at CD this is a longer term thing than a single deal for timed exclusivity on this game. We can't change what happened but we can change what is going to happen.

Valenka you can see it as very negative that we criticising this deal so much but in another sense we are showing how passionate and excited we about getting to play Rise of the Tomb Raider as soon as possible.

Murphdawg1
16th Aug 2014, 20:04
This deal that happened is terrible and it's going to happen again. If you read the statement by Darrell at CD this is a longer term thing than a single deal for timed exclusivity on this game. We can't change what happened but we can change what is going to happen.

Valenka you can see it as very negative that we criticising this deal so much but in another sense we are showing how passionate and excited we about getting to play Rise of the Tomb Raider as soon as possible.

Not to mention there really isn't much else to talk about in the world of Tomb Raider at the moment other than the deal.

Valenka
16th Aug 2014, 20:25
HA, that actually wouldn't even be such a bad metaphor, given the high level of corruption in today's governments. The voting public indeed might as well just throw bank notes into the ballet boxes :lol:

I didn't even factor that into consideration. A fantastic point. :D


This deal that happened is terrible and it's going to happen again. If you read the statement by Darrell at CD this is a longer term thing than a single deal for timed exclusivity on this game. We can't change what happened but we can change what is going to happen.

Valenka you can see it as very negative that we criticising this deal so much but in another sense we are showing how passionate and excited we about getting to play Rise of the Tomb Raider as soon as possible.

I'm already aware. :)

AdobeArtist
16th Aug 2014, 22:09
Meagan was indeed the official mouthpiece in her role however look at all the Q&A's, audio blogs, interviews etc where CD clearly showed they valued the community input. They didn't have to have that kind of dialogue. They could have just done what they wanted and put it out regardless. I am not suggesting they are perfect, but to suggest they don't care is IMO wrong.

This is the distinction many people here are missing. Crystal Dynamics has shown to be very much involved with the community. It's the new owners Square Enix that has this indifference to us and freely went into this deal with Microsoft.

Developers care about the community because they make the game. Publishers care about the money because they sell the game. So it's all business and numbers to them, where the devs reach out and hear our voices.


I completely agree. Also don't forget that they're pushing to get rid of DRM aswell. :worship: I love how they value their customers. Could you imagine if they were developing TR? :cool:

Hellooooooo nudity and romance options :D :naughty: :whistle:


A little overly dramatic for my tastes...

Ironic considering your chosen handle ;) :whistle:

Gemma_Darkmoon_
24th Aug 2014, 00:53
This is the distinction many people here are missing. Crystal Dynamics has shown to be very much involved with the community. It's the new owners Square Enix that has this indifference to us and freely went into this deal with Microsoft.

Crystal have to known it was not going to be a good response when the deal was made. They had the time to prepare a proper response and all we got was that badly thought out blog post. It doesn't seem that they were thinking much about the fans.

In relation to the title of the thread my money is only going to be used on PS4 or PC version of this game.

Gameboys
24th Aug 2014, 09:16
i made THIS, as a statement... hope u like it! :)

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/thumb/479a26-1408871875.png (http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=479a26-1408871875.png)

Weemanply109
24th Aug 2014, 11:02
i made THIS, as a statement... hope u like it! :)

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/thumb/479a26-1408871875.png (http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=479a26-1408871875.png)

THE QUEEN HAS SPOKEN! :worship:

BeastCallisto
24th Aug 2014, 11:29
I vote with my money. Thats why I re-bought Tr2 on PS3 now. And will re-buy all other classic TR-Games that I don't yet own on PS3. Or PS4 if I buy that till then. I won't buy any XBox or TR on PC, when that comes out. I only buy it on PS4. If they don't give me that, they don't WANT my money. But I will show them, that I still want to own TR and thats why I re-buy the classics.

motoleo
24th Aug 2014, 12:04
If you boycott exclusivity you won't be able to play any games.

a_big_house
24th Aug 2014, 12:09
If you boycott exclusivity you won't be able to play any games.

You can boycott exclusivity and still support the franchise with the other games and media that aren't exclusive ;)

BeastCallisto
24th Aug 2014, 21:51
I don't boycott exclusivity, cause otherwise I would've missed out on Uncharted and Last of Us. I only boycott XBox, because its just not my type.

yamatai_veteran
18th Sep 2014, 13:19
I don't mind series that are an exclusive like PS have Uncharted, Destiny and LBP. It's only wrong where like this the game has been out of many platforms and then a platform tries to buy exclusivity. TR has been on PS and PC consoles for ages so is unfair to make deals to delay releases when so many gamers of the series are on those consoles.

Murphdawg1
22nd Sep 2014, 00:24
I don't boycott exclusivity, cause otherwise I would've missed out on Uncharted and Last of Us. I only boycott XBox, because its just not my type.

Uncharted and The Last Of Us were always exclusive as Naughty Dog is a Sony 1st party studio. Crystal Dynamics is a 3rd party developer with Square Enix as it's publisher that has always put it's games on multiple platforms and usually at the same time.

GoggleboxUK
25th Sep 2014, 23:07
Preowned PS4 version is what I'll be playing, my wallet stays shut to CD and SE for good now.

I couldn't care less if this deal is part of their survival, if they go then someone else will puck up the rights in the same way they did. Tomb Raider has its own lifeforce due to the community that have grown up with it.

DamianGraham
26th Sep 2014, 01:18
Preowned PS4 version is what I'll be playing, my wallet stays shut to CD and SE for good now.

I couldn't care less if this deal is part of their survival, if they go then someone else will puck up the rights in the same way they did. Tomb Raider has its own lifeforce due to the community that have grown up with it.

At this point, I'm a little bit less angry at Crystal Dynamics and more so at Square Enix. Unfortunately the publishers don't get much say or control when it comes to the game, it's all publishers. So, if you truly want to support this franchise and developer, and stop AAA title races which cause deals like the one that happened with this game, start at least by boycotting ALL of Square's material.

Rai
26th Sep 2014, 21:18
At this point, I'm a little bit less angry at Crystal Dynamics and more so at Square Enix. Unfortunately the publishers don't get much say or control when it comes to the game, it's all publishers. So, if you truly want to support this franchise and developer, and stop AAA title races which cause deals like the one that happened with this game, start at least by boycotting ALL of Square's material.

The only problem with this attitude, it has potential to hurt other developers SE work with, not just SE. I don't actually know of any developers they work with other than CD, but let's just say DevB create a game 'Amazing Adventures of Dolphin Sal' and it looks really promising, and it needs 10 copies to do well, but enough people refuse to get anything with SE's logo on it and it only sells 3 copies, do you think SE will invest in more money for 'AADS2'? Perhaps they have to let go half the workers at DevB studios or worse, DevB have to close or be sold off? What did DevB ever do to deserve that, they had nowt to do with the exclusive deal on TR, they're just a former Indie team picked up by SE. I'm rambling and could be totally off, but my point is, it's a fine line between those responsible and those who aren't if you target the whole of SE like this.

Jurre
26th Sep 2014, 23:19
I couldn't care less if this deal is part of their survival, if they go then someone else will puck up the rights in the same way they did. Tomb Raider has its own lifeforce due to the community that have grown up with it.

True, but another publisher would almost certainly pull the same tricks. What Square Enix did was a dick move and they'll probably do a lot more in the future, but still I shudder to think what would happen if Tomb Raider and Crystal Dynamics would fall in the hands of Electronic Arts or Ubisoft. Metaphorically speaking they're all sneaky street dealers, ready to take advantage of our Tomb Raider addiction...

Also, if TR would be moved to another studio it would likely result in yet another reimagining...

I still think the best idea is just to not buy an Xbox, and buy Temple of Osiris on a system that is not the Xbox if one owns multiple systems... Show the numbers of the PS4 and PC crowd.

SineadLadyCroft
27th Sep 2014, 11:51
I'll buy Rise of the Tomb Raider when it eventually comes out on PS4. I'm hoping that this is an Elder Scrolls type situation where it comes out on Microsoft Platforms first, and then comes out on other consoles. (Even though Elder Scrolls releases out on PC as well as XBOX). I'll keep buying Tomb Raider related products for PS4, so Square Enix can see that people DO want Tomb Raider for other consoles. I was originally going to boycott the game when the exclusivity was revealed at Games Con, but when I found out that it was in fact a timed exclusive, I figured the outlook above would work more better. I just hope Square Enix doesn't do any of this crap to other franchises they publish. If they did, I think it would be the downfall of the company.

Charlie.T.Raider
27th Sep 2014, 12:33
Hopefully the PS4 and PC versions will massively outsell the Xbox version and with ratio of sales for PS4 and Xbox one there is every chance of that. Then maybe CD will realise that this deal ain't so great after all and they just annoyed most people buying the game with this move.

Leon S. Kennedy
28th Sep 2014, 09:58
At this point, I'm a little bit less angry at Crystal Dynamics and more so at Square Enix. Unfortunately the publishers don't get much say or control when it comes to the game, it's all publishers. So, if you truly want to support this franchise and developer, and stop AAA title races which cause deals like the one that happened with this game, start at least by boycotting ALL of Square's material.


I will buy ROTTR used or super cheap, but I'm getting Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts 3 day one. Tomb Raider will suffer on its own.

Tecstar70
29th Sep 2014, 10:39
Just a basic question without taking into account all the argument points around the situation....

IF RottR is seen to fail, and SE decide they are not going to throw any more money at it so no more TR games for the foreseeable future, how would people feel about that?

a_big_house
29th Sep 2014, 11:17
IF RottR is seen to fail, and SE decide they are not going to throw any more money at it so no more TR games for the foreseeable future, how would people feel about that?

Very upset... But then again, someone else could buy the rights, someone better...

Triangle3
6th Oct 2014, 11:19
IF RottR is seen to fail, and SE decide they are not going to throw any more money at it so no more TR games for the foreseeable future, how would people feel about that?

With the success of TR 2013 and the new hype around the series the only reason for the next game to fail sales wise is because of CD/SE signing this deal and alienating the PS/PC fanbase. If this ruins it for them then they only have themselves to blame.

In the official Q and A CD said they are 'focused on delivering a great game for Xbox one and Xbox 360'. If you are only focused on 1/3 of your potential audience then that will always affect sales.

Lycantendencies
17th Oct 2014, 17:20
The only problem with this attitude,I had it has potential to hurt other developers SE work with, not just SE..
It does, but that's all on SE.

I haven't boycotted SE, but the fact that they publish Sleeping Dogs is directly responsible for me not buying the DE version.
Like TR, I know that Sleeping Dogs is part of a series and I see no point investing in part of something if I'm unlikely to get access to the rest of it.
Why invest in a dead end or fund development of something you won't benefit from in the future?
Better I save the money and let the franchises I can no longer follow end with the old gen than pay for something and be dissapointed when I learn part two is going exclusive elsewhere.

After what they did with Tomb Raider, arguably one of the most established multi platform franchises around, the name Square Enix just means too much uncertainty when it comes to ongoing franchises.


IF RottR is seen to fail, and SE decide they are not going to throw any more money at it so no more TR games for the foreseeable future, how would people feel about that?
Unsurprised.

We already know that they were unhappy with TR's performance, despite it making more than respectable sales.
They've also teamed up with MS because MS is bringing money, so they're already trying to spend as little as possible, which shows they're already not as keen to invest.

Overly high expectation, looking for money elsewhere and a willingness to secure money at the cost of a large chunk of the series' consumer base suggests to me that Square is maybe not the best company for Tomb Raider.
In fact, they seem to have such a low opinion of TR, that success or not, I could see Square using this partnership to eventually sell the franchise to Microsoft.

I'd rather take no games for a while and for it to be picked up by a multi platform publisher who understands the game and it's userbase, as it is, imo, better for the franchise in the long run.

DamianGraham
18th Oct 2014, 05:32
I will buy ROTTR used or super cheap, but I'm getting Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts 3 day one. Tomb Raider will suffer on its own.

Just a hypothetical situation I'm about to present; what would you do, if square in the vein of this deal, sold rights to KH 3 for an un-specified time on XB1 only? (or assuming you have an XB1 only- PS4 exclusivity). It's not Tomb Raider's fault, nor is it Crystals. I'm doing my best to avoid saying the select words I have about Square as a company, so I'll just stick to- they had best learn from this and leave my favorite franchise the hell alone and where it belongs- everywhere. I understand Japanese culture sees games like this a little differently, and were disappointed with it because it doesn't have a cult following, but there is a following and they need to respect that from now on.

DamianGraham
18th Oct 2014, 05:34
Just a basic question without taking into account all the argument points around the situation....

IF RottR is seen to fail, and SE decide they are not going to throw any more money at it so no more TR games for the foreseeable future, how would people feel about that?

I would rather there be no Tomb Raider in production, than a Tomb Raider that is whored out for a quick buck, and only to 1/3 of a fanbase. It's downright disrespectful and Lara (as well as the community) deserve better. This will be the last time a deal like this happens I think. Sales will either never justify M$ paying for another deal, ending SE giving the franchise a chance (after having said last TR failed to meet sales expectations)- or they will learn, and release it back on all systems whilst lowering their insane expectations. I wish reps from Square read these comments and knew how they're making the fans feel. CD should have it out with them.

Lord Martok
18th Oct 2014, 15:38
There are those who think that Sega is responsible for Aliens:Colonial Marines turning out lackluster as it did, and threatened to boycott Sega when it came to all Alien games in the future. If everyone felt like that, then a magnificent game like Alien Isolation would never have gotten the success it is currently enjoying.

The thing is: the mishandling of Colonial Marines was not Sega's fault. They provided money to Gearbox, who in turn took that money and invested it into their flagship series for Borderlands 2, and outsourced Colonial Marines to a lesser developer, and then took the remaining few weeks or months to "make final tweaks" to the game....and we, the gamers, got the poorly received, critically panned (yet, for some reason, monetarily successful) Colonial Marines.

But folks wanted to blame Sega. I'm glad cooler heads prevailed, because Isolation is a survival horror game for the ages.

Now let's jump to Tomb Raider. This is deliberate mishandling by Squeenix, the publisher, whilst under the hypnotic gaze of a lot of money from Microsoft. If the game, as well as any game published by Squeenix, is boycotted, well...that's something that Squeenix brought on themselves, and for their grave mistake, other developers under their thumb will be made to suffer. It's not the other devs' faults, and it's certainly not the gamers' fault. It is Squeenix's for jumping into bed with the devil.

Metalrocks
18th Oct 2014, 15:57
you made me think of this.
https://jrfibonacci.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/south-park-saddam-devil2copy.jpg

the image up loader didnt work for me.

Scion_Light
6th Dec 2014, 02:15
If you have more platforms then there is more gamers to buy it so makes sense. We as gamers should speak out against things like this ROTTR deal. It is bad for platforms to buy the right to deliberately stop gamers enjoying series they have for years buy paying for exclusivity on new releases. What is happening with the ROTTR deal is not good for TR and it's fans. SE and CD should do the right thing and let all the fans enjoy the game at the same time. They should set an example by saying no to those who want to prevent that.

In terms of voting with my wallet I am in that I will choose PS4 as my next gen console when I could have gone either way before this deal.

Steel_Wing
21st Jan 2015, 13:25
The whole point about multiplatforms is gamers with different platform can all get to play the game. If everyone spends the same price on the game excluding collectors editions then we should all get the same game at the same time.

evilmustang66
10th Feb 2015, 02:28
Microsoft and Crystal Dynamics announced a timed-exclusive deal that effectively cuts off 3/4 of their fanbase. Exclusivity deals like this do nothing but hurt gamers and the industry

I know most people will say whatever but just hear me out. I don't expect you to never buy the title like me but buy it used, buy on Ebay, share with all the everyone or <mod edit>. Whatever you can so Crystal Dynamics never sees that money.



Thank you! Happy Gaming!



port it to pc and all consoles I say other wise I just wont buy happy with my gaming pc

Charlie_T_Raider
14th Feb 2015, 12:27
Is sad when instead of trying to make a better gaming industry console developers start trying to attack multiplatforms and use titles as pawns because they can't be bothered to invest in their own current and new games series. Lara deserves better than this.

Phasetastic
24th Feb 2015, 14:37
As a PC gamer we get the worst of most of these console war deals. I play on a PC with Windows and we still get cut out which is no fun.

Charlie_T_Raider
28th Feb 2015, 10:42
I don't think gamers want these kind of deals at all especially with the TR one with all it's PS history. It is just really bad practise and not good for gaming