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Murphdawg1
13th Aug 2014, 16:21
With what appears to be a confirmation from Phil Spencer that Rise of The Tomb Raider is only a timed exclusive all of this could have been avoided with better PR and respect for all the fans. A simple "Get Rise of the Tomb Raider first on Xbox." Would have been much more clarifying similar to how Xbox advertises COD DLC. Yesterday should be a lesson to Square/Crystal and Microsoft that no matter how much money you have it's the gamers that control how successful you are. So don't mess with us or we will rise up. Still not happy about the timed exclusivity but it's better than not being able to play at all. I don't see why Tomb Raider could not be out for all systems at the same time Uncharted 4 might be out. The people on Xbox could still buy Tomb Raider even if it's on other systems too.

CroftManiac
13th Aug 2014, 16:25
You tell me you are not satisfied with it?? What if cd brought the game only on xbone??
Wouldn't the timed exclusive then be better??

Tecstar70
13th Aug 2014, 16:29
People jumped to conclusions based on what they didn't hear as much as what they did hear. A lot of opinions seem to be given without taking a step back and thinking about it logically.

Those of us that did worked it out. It's the good ole Internet Knee Jerk I guess!

CroftManiac
13th Aug 2014, 16:30
People jumped to conclusions based on what they didn't hear as much as what they did hear. A lot of opinions seem to be given without taking a step back and thinking about it logically.

Those of us that did worked it out. It's the good ole Internet Knee Jerk I guess!

Totally agree!!

Murphdawg1
13th Aug 2014, 16:32
You tell me you are not satisfied with it?? What if cd brought the game only on xbone??
Wouldn't the timed exclusive then be better??

Didn't I say timed exclusive is better than nothing? I still don't like how Microsoft does this stuff. I have a PS4, I'd rather all gamers have access to it at the same time. I doubt Tomb Raider will be a system seller for Xbox.

BridgetFisher
13th Aug 2014, 16:34
Didn't I say timed exclusive is better than nothing? I still don't like how Microsoft does this stuff. I have a PS4, I'd rather all gamers have access to it at the same time. I doubt Tomb Raider will be a system seller for Xbox.

Well pretty sure at this point with the sales slump sadly for microsoft this may be part of that old fashioned throw EVERYTHING at the wall and hope something sticks, or in this case moves some console units kind of a thing? Their kinda desperate at this point to catch up to the other consoles. Luckily they got that moneh to back it up so cant fault them for trying.

CroftManiac
13th Aug 2014, 16:35
Oh now you're telling me rottr should be published for ps4 and xbone? What about PC gamers?? Of course you don't care because you have your ps4. And yes , Microsoft tries to surpass ps4 sales...

Murphdawg1
13th Aug 2014, 16:40
Oh now you're telling me rottr should be published for ps4 and xbone? What about PC gamers?? Of course you don't care because you have your ps4. And yes , Microsoft tries to surpass ps4 sales...

I've included PC in my protests. Tomb Raider's history is PC and Playstation.

CroftManiac
13th Aug 2014, 16:42
I've included PC in my protests. Tomb Raider's history is PC and Playstation.

Agreed! :)

kiadaw
13th Aug 2014, 16:44
I've included PC in my protests. Tomb Raider's history is PC and Playstation.
& Nokia N cage.

CroftManiac
13th Aug 2014, 17:01
& Nokia N cage.

& GBA :lol: :lol:

lilrican
13th Aug 2014, 17:17
& iphone

Weemanply109
13th Aug 2014, 17:21
Plz port the game to MAC!!!! :(

d1n0_xD
13th Aug 2014, 17:22
My Nokia 3310 hasn't seen a good game in a while, too.

_Love2Raid_
13th Aug 2014, 18:17
People jumped to conclusions based on what they didn't hear as much as what they did hear. A lot of opinions seem to be given without taking a step back and thinking about it logically.

Those of us that did worked it out. It's the good ole Internet Knee Jerk I guess!
Are you saying... that their announcement was not deliberately shady and sneaky? That they did not deliberately leave out important details such as... I don't know... whether the exclusivity deal was permanent or timed maybe? That they did not deliberately make it seem like the deal was permanent? :lmao:

They have been and still are messing with our feelings, this could have been cleared up ages ago. You do realise that this little addition about the duration of the deal was not part of any press release or whatever, right? Somebody from Eurogamer kept asking and finally managed to get this answer. Not that we've learnt much from it, not at all.

Tecstar70
13th Aug 2014, 18:19
Are you saying... that their announcement was not deliberately shady and sneaky? That they did not deliberately leave out important details such as... I don't know... whether the exclusivity deal was permanent or timed maybe? That they did not deliberately make it seem like the deal was permanent? :lmao:

They have been and still are messing with our feelings, this could have been cleared up ages ago. You do realise that this little addition about the duration of the deal was not part of any press release or whatever, right? Somebody from Eurogamer kept asking and finally managed to get this answer. Not that we've learnt much from it, not at all.

Of course they deliberately left it out. Was it shady? No. Was it a sales pitch? Yes. Deliberately messing with our feelings? No. Conscious of the impact of such a statement? Yes, that's why they released a statement so quickly.

d1n0_xD
13th Aug 2014, 18:34
A statement that no person that has any common sense and respect to other people would write.

Kolani
13th Aug 2014, 18:40
I'm still not buying it new on any platform. I will pirate or buy used in order to deny Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix my dollar.

QiX
13th Aug 2014, 18:40
Still not happy about the timed exclusivity but it's better than not being able to play at all. I don't see why Tomb Raider could not be out for all systems at the same time Uncharted 4 might be out. The people on Xbox could still buy Tomb Raider even if it's on other systems too.

By the way a perfect form to gain the Uncharted series fans would be NOT preventing them from having access to the next Tomb Raider at the release date. And a perfect way to cut a deal with Microsoft would be NOT to exclude Windows Game PC users from the privilege. In every aspect, this whole fiasco benefits Microsoft ONLY. Crystal Dynamics gets nothing. They lose respect, trust, confidence, reputation. Well, they get money. Less money than what they could make by themselves if they didn't act like such jerks. What Microsoft has to offer to the franchise is corporate prostitution.

Rai
13th Aug 2014, 18:50
People jumped to conclusions based on what they didn't hear as much as what they did hear. A lot of opinions seem to be given without taking a step back and thinking about it logically.

Those of us that did worked it out. It's the good ole Internet Knee Jerk I guess!
Agreed :thumb:. Although I do think Se/CD need a lesson or two in speech writing. I suppose as it was a Microsoft conference (?), they probably felt the need to keep MS sweet and announce the exclusivity alone at that point. Perhaps they were going to announce the timed part later on, but with yesterday's uproar they and MS felt the need to speak out sooner. It is poor PR work, imo.

it still sucks that PS4 and PC players have to wait, but I suppose this softens the blow a bit.

Error96_
13th Aug 2014, 19:08
CD need to get out a clarification as soon as possible about how long it will last and it could do with a big apology from their top people too.

nevillet
13th Aug 2014, 19:26
By the way a perfect form to gain the Uncharted series fans would be NOT preventing them from having access to the next Tomb Raider at the release date. And a perfect way to cut a deal with Microsoft would be NOT to exclude Windows Game PC users from the privilege. In every aspect, this whole fiasco benefits Microsoft ONLY. Crystal Dynamics gets nothing. They lose respect, trust, confidence, reputation. Well, they get money. Less money than what they could make by themselves if they didn't act like such jerks. What Microsoft has to offer to the franchise is corporate prostitution.

The opposite applies to.
I just cancelled my preorder and changed it to a preorder for Uncharted 4.

What else could I do?

_Love2Raid_
13th Aug 2014, 19:31
Of course they deliberately left it out. Was it shady? No. Was it a sales pitch? Yes. Deliberately messing with our feelings? No. Conscious of the impact of such a statement? Yes, that's why they released a statement so quickly.
Whether or not it's 'shady' is a matter of personal opinion and morals, indeed. I think it's utterly disrespectful towards the fanbase. And what statement are you referring to, if I may ask? :scratch:

Lycantendencies
13th Aug 2014, 20:01
People jumped to conclusions based on what they didn't hear as much as what they did hear. A lot of opinions seem to be given without taking a step back and thinking about it logically.
If there was no precedent I would agree, but they remain happy for Playstation owners not to have a big chunk of Underworld, so it's not a reach to think they'd do it again.

Leon S. Kennedy
13th Aug 2014, 20:57
People jumped to conclusions based on what they didn't hear as much as what they did hear. A lot of opinions seem to be given without taking a step back and thinking about it logically.

Those of us that did worked it out. It's the good ole Internet Knee Jerk I guess!

This is still a crappy deal and the outrage is still justified.

d1n0_xD
13th Aug 2014, 22:11
I just love when someones mentions new IPs as exclusives as an argument, makes me smile :) :|

FrankCSIS
14th Aug 2014, 00:01
As I've stated on another region of this Eidos world, apart from the PR catastrophe, what never fails to surprise is this schizophrenic industry continues to perpetually run on borrowed money. Aside from the sack of money, MS is likely to foot the publicity bill, which usually runs in 7 or 8 figures. By taking this out of the accounting, Square shareholders will never truly know how much it costs them to produce X amount of revenues.

MS signs a few deals like this, most likely using budgets from MS Games as well as MS marketing, to try and consolidate console sales, without any possibility of evaluating net results. And console sales themselves aren't worth spit, if they don't translate into online gaming and social hub revenues.

And then there's the studio, running on excessive public and private subsidies, who has no credible accounting beyond the rent and the paychecks, who can't possibly calculate whether or not it is economically viable to continue to exist. In the end they will likely share a part of the burden with one or more other studios, located in other countries, running on other public subsidies.

Deltoran
14th Aug 2014, 00:55
I don't believe my reaction was knee-jerk. I am still disappointed in how SE/CD handled this. Why is Microsoft the one telling us about duration? (probably because only they can) CD/SE's PR with their fans is terrible and this will hurt customer loyalty. I know I won't be paying full price when the game is released on PC/PS4.

unrealized
14th Aug 2014, 10:43
Knee-jerk?

If it wasn't for the "knee-jerking" we'd still be wondering if it was timed on not, we'd still be guessing, left in the dark with corporate speak. The initial announcement IS shady, it's not even open for debate.
They knew perfectly well how elusive the announcement would be, these 'speeches' and texts are all well thought out, reviewed, proofread, re-structured, re-sentenced until it's approved. They didn't lie, but omitting facts and important details is very very shady, and in the real world where it matters - say in a case of police / federal investigation, omitting facts can get you in the same bag of trouble and conviction as the perpetrator, because not telling facts you know are important in the context is shady, it show you might have ulterior motives, other intentions (in this case help MS sell xbone units).

So yes, it is shady, have no doubt about it. The clarifying announcement from Phil Spencer wouldn't even have existed if it wasn't for the mass reaction from the fan-base. CD/SE decided to try and hide a few facts and test the water, it blew up in their face of course.

In a world where social networks seems to be everything, and anyone can directly address you using facebook, comments and twitter, the "knee-jerking" is a lot more visible. While 10/15 years ago an announcement like this could be made and gotten away with because people's 'rage' wasn't visible unless you visited the forums, now it's everywhere. The knee-jerking didn't increase or change, the visibility of it has, and because of that it's a lot easier to cause uproar, scandal, being seen by press and criticized.

This "knee-jerking" was and is necessary exactly to demonstrate these companies we're not complete morons with wallets filled with money, that needs to change, there needs to be transparency, clear messages and reasons because the consumer today is smarter.

What this displays from CD/SE is - in academic lingo - "moral myopia," which is a distortion of moral vision that prevents moral issues from coming into focus, say when receiving huge wads of cash, and a complete lack of intellectual respect for their own consumers.

kiss-bite
14th Aug 2014, 10:56
Indeed it is. However, just because the exclusivity is timed doesn't mean it will still come to other platforms. Damage control it may be and we can't assume it will eventually come out for PS and PC until it is officially confirmed...

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 11:04
Indeed it is. However, just because the exclusivity is timed doesn't mean it will still come to other platforms. Damage control it may be and we can't assume it will eventually come out for PS and PC until it is officially confirmed...

Correct, but be honest. It will:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=2031261&postcount=62

unrealized
14th Aug 2014, 11:19
However, just because the exclusivity is timed doesn't mean it will still come to other platforms.

Of course it will, and if history is anything to go by, it will be soon after. A timed exclusive is just that, timed, after that contractual agreement is expired SE will want to make as much money as possible as fast as possible while the game is still "fresh" and way before the third one's release.
This timed is expected to boost Xbone sales for Christmas, they even mentioned having bundles being set-up.

Tying a game to a console to boost its sales only works for the first 90 to 120 days, after that, whoever wanted to buy that game+console already did so. At the most you're looking into a 1 year exclusive, which I doubt it since - like I said - SE will want to make more revenue out of the other systems asap. We're most likely looking at a 3 to 6 months exclusive.

It's still pretty terrible since we'll only get a hold of the game by 2016.

Tecstar70
14th Aug 2014, 11:21
We're most likely looking at a 3 to 6 months exclusive.

Totally agree. I think it won't even be that long. November 2015 to January 2016 I reckon.

kiss-bite
14th Aug 2014, 11:45
Prepare yourself for possible disappointment... Unless you own an XBONE anyway so it makes no difference.

WinterSoldierLTE
14th Aug 2014, 23:03
Agreed :thumb:. Although I do think Se/CD need a lesson or two in speech writing. I suppose as it was a Microsoft conference (?), they probably felt the need to keep MS sweet and announce the exclusivity alone at that point. Perhaps they were going to announce the timed part later on, but with yesterday's uproar they and MS felt the need to speak out sooner.

Well, to be fair, we don't and never will know the fine print in the contract. For all we know, Crystal had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Corporate America is big on those (I have had to sign a few myself for simple things like replacing a light bulb in the bathroom of an office building. That is not made up. And more times than not, they're companies that are not who you'd think would want/need them.). I'm not defending Crystals lack of clarification, I'm just saying. I'd be willing to bet that someone at Crystal called someone at Microsoft and said: "Look, we've got this clause. Help us!" and that's why Microsoft dropped the news.

Murphdawg1
14th Aug 2014, 23:06
Well, to be fair, we don't and never will know the fine print in the contract. For all we know, Crystal had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Corporate America is big on those (I have had to sign a few myself for simple things like replacing a light bulb in the bathroom of an office building. That is not made up. And more times than not, they're companies that are not who you'd think would want/need them.). I'm not defending Crystals lack of clarification, I'm just saying. I'd be willing to bet that someone at Crystal called someone at Microsoft and said: "Look, we've got this clause. Help us!" and that's why Microsoft dropped the news.

Probably more like "Look we've got a bunch of pissed off fans at us and you too, a little help please?"

Valenka
14th Aug 2014, 23:07
Prepare yourself for possible disappointment... Unless you own an XBONE anyway so it makes no difference.

That's not true.
I own an Xbox One and I'm still crossing my fingers and toes for some good news for PC and PS players. It makes a difference to some people. Sure, I'll be enjoying the game at launch, but it'll be a bittersweet thing knowing that a large percentage of the community I love isn't able to experience it with me.

WinterSoldierLTE
14th Aug 2014, 23:09
Probably more like "Look we've got a bunch of pissed off fans at us and you too, a little help please?"

Yeah, I'm sure that was more like what it was. :lol:

a_big_house
14th Aug 2014, 23:11
It makes a difference to some people. Sure, I'll be enjoying the game at launch, but it'll be a bittersweet thing knowing that a large percentage of the community I love isn't able to experience it with me.

I swear, if you post a single spoiler on your Facebook, I will hunt you down. :D

Valenka
14th Aug 2014, 23:15
I swear, if you post a single spoiler on your Facebook, I will hunt you down. :D

Remind me again at launch because by holiday next year, I'll have forgotten in my excitement. :p

Weemanply109
14th Aug 2014, 23:34
I guess it's a good thing I barely use Facebook and and don't use Twitter and Tumblr. :D These forums will be messy around the release date. I wonder if moderation will be more strict about spoilers since the majority of fans will be holding off for the PS4/PC versions.

Valenka
14th Aug 2014, 23:46
I guess it's a good thing I barely use Facebook and and don't use Twitter and Tumblr. :D

That's a shame, you should see some of the hilarious things I post on Facebook. :p

a_big_house
14th Aug 2014, 23:47
That's a shame, you should see some of the hilarious things I post on Facebook. :p
Yes, like when a spider dropped onto your face :rasp:

Valenka
14th Aug 2014, 23:49
Yes, like when a spider dropped onto your face :rasp:

I'd rather not relive that one. :nut:
My father remains convinced it was some other sort of insect, just to pull my chain. It wasn't a large spider, though. About the size of like, an eyelash. It was dangling from my bloody glasses though. Horrifying, that was.

Leon S. Kennedy
14th Aug 2014, 23:59
Well pretty sure at this point with the sales slump sadly for microsoft this may be part of that old fashioned throw EVERYTHING at the wall and hope something sticks, or in this case moves some console units kind of a thing? Their kinda desperate at this point to catch up to the other consoles. Luckily they got that moneh to back it up so cant fault them for trying.

I was afraid this happen would when Xbox starting selling poorly. I was just hoping it wouldn't be Tomb Raider, Resident Evil or Mass Effect. One down..

Valenka
15th Aug 2014, 00:03
I was afraid this happen would when Xbox starting selling poorly. I was just hoping it wouldn't be Tomb Raider, Resident Evil or Mass Effect. One down..

You know, Mass Effect was only available on the Xbox 360 for a year before being ported to PC and five years before being ported to the PS3.

Leon S. Kennedy
15th Aug 2014, 00:10
You know, Mass Effect was only available on the Xbox 360 for a year before being ported to PC and five years beforfe being ported to the PS3.

I know that is what makes it a prime candidate for Xbox to try to make exclusive. EA has tons of money though so they have no incentive to make such a deal though. Capcom is a another mismanaged Japanese company just like SE so who knows about RE.

Valenka
15th Aug 2014, 00:16
I know that is what makes it a prime candidate for Xbox to try to make exclusive. EA has tons of money though so they have no incentive to make such a deal though. Capcom is a another mismanaged Japanese company just like SE so who knows about RE.

Well, considering that they never tried with Mass Effect 2 and 3 and the fact that we know nothing about the potential new IP from the ME franchise, I think it's safe to cast that concern aside for now. :)

Murphdawg1
15th Aug 2014, 00:16
You know, Mass Effect was only available on the Xbox 360 for a year before being ported to PC and five years before being ported to the PS3.

You act as though going from exclusive to multiplat is a bad thing. Do you hear Playstation fans complaining that MGS is now multiplat and will be on Xbox One and PC? Going from exclusive to multiplat gains new fans as i'm sure both Mass Effect did and MGS V will. Going from multiplat to exclusive is giving the middle finger to everyone who happened to support the franchise on the "wrong" platform.

FarronFox
15th Aug 2014, 02:03
Yeah, even though I would have been annoyed still they really should have just said 'First on XBOX'.

Instead they made it seem that Lara had said goodbye to her history with PC and PlayStation, which is just wrong. She was born there and should continue on there long as those platforms exist.

It will be interesting to hear what they say next on when she'll be appearing on PC/Playstation after Osiris releases.

Valenka
15th Aug 2014, 12:37
You act as though going from exclusive to multiplat is a bad thing.

Um, no I don't. Stop making assumptions about my opinions and thought process. Not that I owe you any explanations, but I was actually glad that Mass Effect went to the PS3 because one of my best friends is a strictly Playstation gamer and I was finally able to talk with her about one of my favourite series. :wave:


Do you hear Playstation fans complaining that MGS is now multiplat and will be on Xbox One and PC? Going from exclusive to multiplat gains new fans as i'm sure both Mass Effect did and MGS V will. Going from multiplat to exclusive is giving the middle finger to everyone who happened to support the franchise on the "wrong" platform.

And your point is?

Your entire post was based on your inaccurate assumption that I was against multi-platform games, as if I haven't made countless posts in the past three days underlining my feelings toward the ROTTR situation.

Thank you for giving me a migraine at 8am. :hmm:

Telekill
15th Aug 2014, 22:49
By the way a perfect form to gain the Uncharted series fans would be NOT preventing them from having access to the next Tomb Raider at the release date. And a perfect way to cut a deal with Microsoft would be NOT to exclude Windows Game PC users from the privilege. In every aspect, this whole fiasco benefits Microsoft ONLY. Crystal Dynamics gets nothing. They lose respect, trust, confidence, reputation. Well, they get money. Less money than what they could make by themselves if they didn't act like such jerks. What Microsoft has to offer to the franchise is corporate prostitution.

Agreed. I was gearing up to buy the inevitable collectors edition for PS4, but now... even if it comes to PS4, I'll wait and buy it used so they don't see a cent from me. The comic series I was reading... done. The novel I was looking forward to buying... not happening. I'm dropping any support for Crystal Dynamics, Eidos and Square.

Leon S. Kennedy
16th Aug 2014, 00:31
http://tombraider.tumblr.com/post/94529480860/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-update

"Thank you for all of the feedback and questions. There has been a lot of coverage about Rise of the Tomb Raider, and a new round of articles followed Phil Spencer’s Eurogamer interview in which he confirmed that the exclusivity is timed. In case you haven’t read that article yet, you can do so here."

Valenka
16th Aug 2014, 14:19
http://tombraider.tumblr.com/post/94529480860/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-update

"Thank you for all of the feedback and questions. There has been a lot of coverage about Rise of the Tomb Raider, and a new round of articles followed Phil Spencer’s Eurogamer interview in which he confirmed that the exclusivity is timed. In case you haven’t read that article yet, you can do so here."

We heard about that three days ago.

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=153494

Sophiafan
16th Sep 2014, 14:31
I just don't get who at CD thought this was a good idea and how they could not be prepared to say how long the duration was for. If it wasn't for the fans putting pressure on MS I don't think we would have even found out the deal was timed. CD have certainly acted poorly over this.

BridgetFisher
16th Sep 2014, 18:22
It was kinda weird how the company always made the TR community a priority before though with this they vanished. Maybe the marketing people decided that the TR community didnt matter because they would just buy the games anyways? Those marketing people seem to do a bad job, not one was anywhere within the community, a game with no community, meh they die, and doubt anyone wants this series to go away especially the company making it.

Tecstar70
17th Sep 2014, 08:38
It was kinda weird how the company always made the TR community a priority before though with this they vanished. Maybe the marketing people decided that the TR community didnt matter because they would just buy the games anyways? Those marketing people seem to do a bad job, not one was anywhere within the community, a game with no community, meh they die, and doubt anyone wants this series to go away especially the company making it.


Since Megan left there hasn't been much of a visible presence here. Maybe that will change....

Driber
17th Sep 2014, 09:42
Of course having a CM makes a huge difference. They are the liaisons between the company and the fans. Without a CM, there is naturally more 'radio silence'. I'm sure things will improve once the new CM is installed :)

BridgetFisher
18th Sep 2014, 07:32
Of course having a CM makes a huge difference. They are the liaisons between the company and the fans. Without a CM, there is naturally more 'radio silence'. I'm sure things will improve once the new CM is installed :)

Couldnt the voice actor for Lara Croft be the CM so CL can be CM? Looking at her IMDB she doesnt seem to busy but that is kinda the role like a brand spokesman like the wendys girl right? Noone would care more about the future of the franchise than someone who needs it to earn a living? It would be a good match maybe?

<---Holds up sign CL for CM!

Driber
18th Sep 2014, 09:30
Couldnt the voice actor for Lara Croft be the CM so CL can be CM? Looking at her IMDB she doesnt seem to busy but that is kinda the role like a brand spokesman like the wendys girl right? Noone would care more about the future of the franchise than someone who needs it to earn a living? It would be a good match maybe?

<---Holds up sign CL for CM!

The role of CM is much more than just being a spokesperson. It is a full time job, and Camilla wouldn't get to any acting if she were CM :D

Flintmelody
6th Oct 2014, 18:05
Of course having a CM makes a huge difference. They are the liaisons between the company and the fans. Without a CM, there is naturally more 'radio silence'. I'm sure things will improve once the new CM is installed :)

It's a wonderful choice to have Meagan back and so just possibly things could get better. I am not so surprised by the radio silence as when CD tried to tell us things but be all cryptic about it so they weren't actually telling us things, it was just getting them in deeper hot water.