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Vikingvern
11th Aug 2014, 07:00
You know instinct in absolution? 47 focuses and the world goes dark and things look alot different threw the eyes of the hitman. Things of interest twinkeling aswel as glowing orange enemies that can be seen threw walls with fire trails predicting their paths. It was assumed that because 47 has heightened sences and intelligence he can do that.

Well I have a 3 ideas for additions to instict to make it better and more understandibly realistic.

To explaine instinct better i think in hitman 6 there should be a cutscene early in the game where he explaines to someone that not only with his heightened sences but during ortmiers training he studied human behavioral psychology aswell as human anatomy and bone structure, all to phd levels.

Reasons for that go well with my ideas

1 People in instincts mode should look like an xray.
In normal view the dot ends at the persons skin or clothes, but in insticts you can see the orange transparent outer layer and a differently colored white skeleton and organs, put the aim dot on to their red heart or grey brain is death, shots to the purple guts cause more damage and/or prolongued eventual death. Or target spacific bones and deal with the enemy more accordingly. Limb bones can be shot in half and enemies cant use that limb anymore while sucumbing and screaming to the pain.


2 You can not see enemies threw walls automatically without some sort of detection first. Example catching a glympse threw a hole in the wall they walk bye, a reflective serfice such as an angled mirror in the destence and most importantly sound.

3 You can see sound, with blue waves of light, explosions and unsilenced gunshots create large vibrant wave which bounces off walls and alerting enemies it reaches (these can be muffled by ambiant noise).
Things like footsteps and talking creates small waves of sound. While hiding if you hear footsteps you can click on instinct to better determine where the sound is coming from. You notice on the other side of a wall small waves of footstep sounds going by. 47's understanding of anatomy allows him to determine the gender, size and weight of the person and the glowing orange image of the person begins to materialize starting from the feet and up, and now the person can be seen threw the wall. It would be cool if 47 makes minor errors in instincts and looses the orange image of an enemy when they stop moving or walk on a quieter serfice or out of range of hearing. Or if they could occcasionaly deviate from the fire path 47 was expecting by like a scrypted in game sound or something else gaining his attention.


My favorite!
4. showing indivual enemies information.
Little mathematical alguritisms and mesurments should start fluttering around people and there faces. When this happens stats begin to manifest next to the person. There mood/alertness level, which might change if you throw an item, from calm to frightened to curious to confused. If they see you, alarmed and fighting or flighting to searching for inturder or wanting help etc.
Other stats should also be determined accompanied by a number, things like accuracy 2, reflexes 1, mele skill3 strenght 4 etc. Their weapon and armor info also if seeable.
If you have ever seen the show lie to me, the opening to every episode involves seeing peoples faces with little mathematical mesurements and diagrams being imagined to determin the persons mood, lies, and inner thoughts and all inner emotions.
I propose when 47 goes into instincts he should automatically scan people he can see, close enough and the face provides best results.



Additional notes from things i explained above.
Reflective serfices should give hidden enemies away, go into instinct and you can see a bad guy assasin hiding behind a wall automatically with a single twinkle on a window or mirror nearbye to show why the hitman can see him. Other things that can give enemies away would be if there sneaking and you see them threw a hole in the wall or bookshelf even if there are not making sound. There should be enemy assasins well trained at silence with no reflective serfices around that cant be seen at all until there in line of sight and its too late.

Difficulty level shouldnt be determined by health points or damage points, but something more believeable would be like everyone on the map dies in easily but you will see in instincts mode on higher difficulties everyone has heightened awarness levels and skill stats, better weapos at hand aswell as more enemies :)

I had other little notes but its too late at night to thing straight. Let me know if you like these ideas?

AdrianShephard
11th Aug 2014, 13:06
My favorite!
4. showing indivual enemies information.
Little mathematical alguritisms and mesurments should start fluttering around people and there faces. When this happens stats begin to manifest next to the person. There mood/alertness level, which might change if you throw an item, from calm to frightened to curious to confused. If they see you, alarmed and fighting or flighting to searching for inturder or wanting help etc.
Other stats should also be determined accompanied by a number, things like accuracy 2, reflexes 1, mele skill3 strenght 4 etc. Their weapon and armor info also if seeable.
If you have ever seen the show lie to me, the opening to every episode involves seeing peoples faces with little mathematical mesurements and diagrams being imagined to determin the persons mood, lies, and inner thoughts and all inner emotions.
I propose when 47 goes into instincts he should automatically scan people he can see, close enough and the face provides best results.

Going to be flat out honest. I think Instinct is what killed Absolution. The already small levels could be completed with Splinter Cell like stealth because you could move and see where people are at the same time. Any mention of adding things that make Instinct more overpowered immediately gets a downvote from me. If H6 doesn't have a map, I'm not buying it, plain and simple.

As for the quoted portion, 47 isn't a computer. Nobody sees in mathematical equations unless you are Terminator, JC Denton (Deus Ex had a targeting augmentation that allowed you to see the health/weapon of a NPC), or a robot. The "math" stuff is purely cosmetic that would feel incredibly out of place. If Lie To Me was any good, it would still be on. There is no way to realistically convey all this information to the player nor would it make sense to include such statistics. You can generally tell how an NPC is feeling by looking at their gestures and hearing the music play (first 3 Hitmans did this). No need for a Batman style analysis.

kewlak
11th Aug 2014, 15:44
Same here. I don't buy it.

Dstyles75
11th Aug 2014, 21:07
How about no instinct. Just bring back maps.

AdrianShephard
11th Aug 2014, 21:15
How about no instinct. Just bring back maps.

Yup, I agree. H6 absolutely must have a map if I going to spend my money on it.

FootFetish4Life
12th Aug 2014, 02:21
While I am in favor of Instinct I do have to say some of your ideas are really far out into left field. As Shephard put it, anything that makes Instinct more overpowering is a bad idea. If anything, Instinct needs to be stripped down, the fire trails, the range of power, etc.

Labeling everything from an NPC's alert status to whether they're on their period would be pretty redundant and wouldn't do anything to help momentum, as 47 can see all that just by reading their body language.

Vikingvern
12th Aug 2014, 06:30
Wow hitman fans these days seem kinda centophobic. Allwells I wasn't the biggest fan of instincts at first, but kinda liked instincts after a while. He couldnt use the map anymore as part of the story and its a shame and they say he will have agency assitance again in the next game which makes me think he will have the map.
But intincts tried to show that he was above the normal person, seeing and noticing things normal people cant notice, and without it he felt to me like a very normal guy, 47 dosent normally feel like a some sort of perfect clone superhuman.

Some mentioned instincts shouldnt be overpowered but i think i talked mostly about toneing it down by limiting its range and not showing people threw walls without logical reason, even allowing 47 to make random mistakes when trying to predict paths.

Adding a few things that he could see like stats and the heart of the enemy i felt would be interesting because only having orange people with fire trails became a little to plane to me after a while.

I would prefer the map also even though it slows 47 down. I just wish they would add more buttons to next gen game controllers so we could have all these fetures and people can choose to use what they like best.

FootFetish4Life
12th Aug 2014, 07:34
I agree with you that Instinct seemed more appropriate and that it fit more into 47's prowess. With Instinct, you have a visual cue of your surroundings because, and this just IMO, the average gamer doesn't have a full 7.1 surround sound system to signal footsteps accurately, which is where Instinct and the map, to a certain extent, come into play. To me, the map is basically a level wide Instinct, which I renounce because I think it's more fun to explore and run into NPC's by surprise. The map shows you what everyone is doing at all times everywhere right from the start. Instinct, on the other hand, promotes exploration. But this is a horse we've whipped back to life and death over and over again so let's not get started. I'm glad to see someone else share my point of view.

Adebisi
12th Aug 2014, 07:40
I do not think Hitman fans are afraid of change; you've got your ideas for what you want out of a game, and that's cool, but I think the general consensus from fans (at least the ones I've seen) is that instinct detracted heavily from the fun of the game.

I could forgive the linear level design of Absolution, and if you took it for what it was, and not what it could have been, it was still a damn fine game - it just veered away from what people still wanted more of. However, I flat out refused to use instinct. I was able to get past the whole game without it, except for the intro where you are forced to use it to get through the greenhouse - and even then, I tried for over an hour to circumvent it without killing anybody, and without using instinct. I couldn't do it, and I groaned every time I played that level, that it forced me to use a cheap trick. From what I hear, many people felt the same.

If you've got a system in your game that people are going out of their way trying to avoid, it's time to learn from it and drop it from the next game; or at very least make it completely optional. I appreciated that I could turn off the stuff like seeing enemies through walls, and enemy paths, and I did that before I even played it for the firs time - but the idea of using instinct instead of using a solid disguise system was pretty damn disheartening.

AdrianShephard
12th Aug 2014, 07:44
I'm glad to see someone else share my point of view.

Sergio also shares your view :D

And you forget...again...that having access to Instinct while moving at the same time WHILE seeing the trails where people go is so incredibly overpowered. Map takes you to a different screen so you have to interpret it, you are vulnerable, you don't see people a floor above and below you without manually changing the map (as opposed to instinct), and you have no idea where the patrol routes go.

FootFetish4Life
12th Aug 2014, 07:54
I do not think Hitman fans are afraid of change; you've got your ideas for what you want out of a game, and that's cool, but I think the general consensus from fans (at least the ones I've seen) is that instinct detracted heavily from the fun of the game.

I could forgive the linear level design of Absolution, and if you took it for what it was, and not what it could have been, it was still a damn fine game - it just veered away from what people still wanted more of. However, I flat out refused to use instinct. I was able to get past the whole game without it, except for the intro where you are forced to use it to get through the greenhouse - and even then, I tried for over an hour to circumvent it without killing anybody, and without using instinct. I couldn't do it, and I groaned every time I played that level, that it forced me to use a cheap trick. From what I hear, many people felt the same.

If you've got a system in your game that people are going out of their way trying to avoid, it's time to learn from it and drop it from the next game; or at very least make it completely optional. I appreciated that I could turn off the stuff like seeing enemies through walls, and enemy paths, and I did that before I even played it for the firs time - but the idea of using instinct instead of using a solid disguise system was pretty damn disheartening.

Again, you people keep lumping everything with the word Instinct. Me and Vikingvern are talking about 47 seeing people through walls, you're talking about a flawed disguise system that forces you to cheat. If Absolution's disguise system, along with the head rub that 47 does, were in Blood Money you would still be forced to cheat or do whatever it is you're talking about. Instinct involved a few different facets, NPC's, the disguise system, point shooting, etc. To use one of these to argue against another just because they're all connected by a word doesn't make any sense.

kewlak
12th Aug 2014, 09:37
However, I flat out refused to use instinct. I was able to get past the whole game without it, except for the intro where you are forced to use it to get through the greenhouse - and even then, I tried for over an hour to circumvent it without killing anybody, and without using instinct. I couldn't do it, and I groaned every time I played that level, that it forced me to use a cheap trick. From what I hear, many people felt the same.
I remember i tried do the same. I was luring guards out to the next room and knocking them out one by one :) . Have you beaten whole game without using instinct at all? Even without cover your face? I thought it's impossible.

Adebisi
13th Aug 2014, 11:32
Again, you people keep lumping everything with the word Instinct. Me and Vikingvern are talking about 47 seeing people through walls, you're talking about a flawed disguise system that forces you to cheat. If Absolution's disguise system, along with the head rub that 47 does, were in Blood Money you would still be forced to cheat or do whatever it is you're talking about. Instinct involved a few different facets, NPC's, the disguise system, point shooting, etc. To use one of these to argue against another just because they're all connected by a word doesn't make any sense.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I loathe the things you're talking about just as much. The seeing through walls, the highlighting objects; the difference was I was able to turn them off.

Kewlak: Yes finished the game without covering my face, except for the intro where it forces you too. Should be said though I only played on Hard and Expert, and not Purist, because as you can imagine without instinct, you get spotted a fair few times. But using the checkpoints over and over and over, you are able to get through every section without being spotted and without using instinct. It pretty much involves splinter celling it all the way through though, barely making use of disguises - which is sad. Had to consult Centerstrain01's tutorials sometimes.

FootFetish4Life
13th Aug 2014, 23:16
I appreciate what you're saying, but I loathe the things you're talking about just as much. The seeing through walls, the highlighting objects; the difference was I was able to turn them off.

I think what I liked most about seeing NPC's through walls was that I was only aware of everything in my immediate vicinity. If they bring back the map, I would prefer a spotlight style map (off-screen, with a full lay of the land but only a bubble around 47 displaying NPC's, not an in-game mini map) that shows everyone in a short radius around 47, and I would prefer to investigate for my targets, like in Flatline, rather than knowing where he is the whole time. It'll give us a chance to exercise some of those "social stealth" skills everyone's hollering about.

AdrianShephard
13th Aug 2014, 23:58
It'll give us a chance to exercise some of those "social stealth" skills everyone's hollering about.

Hitman is based on this. Whether you like it or not, every game has implemented it -- to varying degrees of success. Just means you walk out in the open and not get caught instead of sneaking in the shadows. Seeing as this is the 2nd or 3rd time someone had to explain it to you, no more excuses.

LeMoN_LiMe
14th Aug 2014, 03:28
I think "instinct mode" in every game is killing the game industry.

FootFetish4Life
14th Aug 2014, 04:05
Hitman is based on this. Whether you like it or not, every game has implemented it -- to varying degrees of success. Just means you walk out in the open and not get caught instead of sneaking in the shadows. Seeing as this is the 2nd or 3rd time someone had to explain it to you, no more excuses.

I don't think I like your attitude, Darth Vader. You said I was hard wired to insult you, maybe that's because of the venomous undertone in most of your comments. I never said I was against social stealth, I just find the term amusing.

AdrianShephard
14th Aug 2014, 04:59
I don't think I like your attitude, Darth Vader. You said I was hard wired to insult you, maybe that's because of the venomous undertone in most of your comments. I never said I was against social stealth, I just find the term amusing.

Ha you can call me Darth Vader, I like it :D. Too bad that name is already taken though.

I dunno. I always get the feeling that you're mocking something or someone. Whatever. It's how I write; if you head over to the Deus Ex forums you'll see plenty of my 'hateful' posts towards the devs (not really, just pissed that they are drastically changing the franchise). Though, like the case with Absolution, almost everyone that has played the original DX was disappointed by the newest game, Human Revolution. You sort of get used to undercutting someone in your posts.

But you have a bit of a tendency to exaggerate. No one was hollering about social stealth. Some people just said we shouldn't have Splinter Cell-like stealth and used the term. I responded to your comment out of annoyance that you still think the term is made up or you don't believe in it. If you have a better way of classifying Hitman stealth (i.e. hiding in plain sight), do please share.

FootFetish4Life
14th Aug 2014, 05:05
Yeah, I agree I can sound a bit condescending at times or like an @$$hole.

No worries.

I find the term Social Stealth amusing but in a humorous way. A more accurate term, I think, would be Undercover Stealth; doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

AdrianShephard
14th Aug 2014, 05:25
I find the term Social Stealth amusing but in a humorous way. A more accurate term, I think, would be Undercover Stealth; doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

Undercover stealth makes it sound like you are a cop or something. I think we should call it "Hitman stealth". Hey, Splinter Cell has its own stealth named after it.

FootFetish4Life
14th Aug 2014, 05:30
I think "instinct mode" in every game is killing the game industry.

I'm very selective when it comes to playing games, so I'm not familiar with how rampant it is in video games.

However, I don't know how you feel about Assassin's Creed, but there's a game where a map would be impractical, due to the vertical depth and the fact that you're climbing and scaling buildings a lot to track down a target. Granted, Hitman isn't like that, but the X-ray vision does have it's purposes.

AdrianShephard
14th Aug 2014, 06:03
I'm very selective when it comes to playing games, so I'm not familiar with how rampant it is in video games.

However, I don't know how you feel about Assassin's Creed, but there's a game where a map would be impractical, due to the vertical depth and the fact that you're climbing and scaling buildings a lot to track down a target. Granted, Hitman isn't like that, but the X-ray vision does have it's purposes.

Assassins Creed is less tactical though meaning you don't have to plan your moves as much, you just sort of march your way through.

The industry has gone to hell. Almost every game has some form of x-ray vision, but that isn't the main reason why the industry is falling apart.

semajmarc87
14th Aug 2014, 15:57
Here's ONE great instinct mode idea! Don't EVER include it in a Hitman game again and let's try to forget that instinct mode ever existed!

Dstyles75
15th Aug 2014, 17:54
Look up.. What he said.

kewlak
16th Aug 2014, 11:44
But intincts tried to show that he was above the normal person, seeing and noticing things normal people cant notice, and without it he felt to me like a very normal guy, 47 dosent normally feel like a some sort of perfect clone superhuman.
47 had advantage over enemies even before Absolution. He had increased stamina and wider range of vision (thanks to TPP view :) )

Buscar88
16th Aug 2014, 11:55
The funny thing about the Instinct Mode in Absolution is, that it has almost nothting to do with any sort of instincts.

Comprehensible instincts would be:

Taking the measure of someone if he suspects me. (already implemented)

Dodging melee attacks (already implemented)


Something attracts attention, that doesn't fit in the current situation.

Something attracts attention, that could be a useful item (already implemented)

Knowing where the target is by concluding, that the number of guards is higher or the security system is more advanced in a speacial area.

Noticing bumps in clothing which lets you know that this person has a weapon (but shouldn't have one)

Body lenguage and physique: Knowing, that a hot dog salesman (for example) with crewcut and muscularity could be an enemy in disguise.

Drawing your own conclusions from the behaviour of people. For example: Indicators of alcohoism, hetero/homosexuality, wealth, military training etc.

If they implement things like that, so that your instinct helps you to have some advantages acomplishing the mission, I would appreciate that.

But if they use the instinct mode to give us supernatural abilities, they can keep it.

LeMoN_LiMe
19th Aug 2014, 02:30
The funny thing about the Instinct Mode in Absolution is, that it has almost nothting to do with any sort of instincts.

Comprehensible instincts would be:

Taking the measure of someone if he suspects me. (already implemented)

Dodging melee attacks (already implemented)


Something attracts attention, that doesn't fit in the current situation.

Something attracts attention, that could be a useful item (already implemented)

Knowing where the target is by concluding, that the number of guards is higher or the security system is more advanced in a speacial area.

Noticing bumps in clothing which lets you know that this person has a weapon (but shouldn't have one)

Body lenguage and physique: Knowing, that a hot dog salesman (for example) with crewcut and muscularity could be an enemy in disguise.

Drawing your own conclusions from the behaviour of people. For example: Indicators of alcohoism, hetero/homosexuality, wealth, military training etc.

If they implement things like that, so that your instinct helps you to have some advantages acomplishing the mission, I would appreciate that.

But if they use the instinct mode to give us supernatural abilities, they can keep it.

But...but what about seeing through walls? :eek:

FootFetish4Life
19th Aug 2014, 06:26
Seeing through walls had nothing to do with supernatural abilities.

As with the map, you can also make the argument that 47 was being assisted by God himself, getting information about everyone in the building.

Seeing through walls had nothing to do with supernatural abilities. It's basically a short range 3 dimensional map displayed concurrently with gameplay.

Buscar88
28th Aug 2014, 17:49
Seeing through walls had nothing to do with supernatural abilities.

As with the map, you can also make the argument that 47 was being assisted by God himself, getting information about everyone in the building.

Seeing through walls had nothing to do with supernatural abilities. It's basically a short range 3 dimensional map displayed concurrently with gameplay.

I think the main difference between these two features is, that the all knowing map is a classical hitman feature while the wall hack instinct isn't.

In addition, the map feature gave you the possibility to create a strategy how to proceed. The game paused and you had time to think and to orient yourself.
The instinct mode, on the other hand, forces you to take direct action, maybe to achieve a faster gameplay experience.
But 47 is a calm guy, thats why it feels out of place.

kewlak
28th Aug 2014, 19:53
In addition, the map feature gave you the possibility to create a strategy how to proceed. The game paused and you had time to think and to orient yourself.
Game isn't paused when you look at map. It was paused only in Hitman 1.

syncredulousitiness
1st Nov 2014, 05:05
I think the developers should really be looking at more subtle methods of informing the player of enemies whereabouts and the effectiveness of a disguise. Here are the main issues I have and a few suggestions for fixes.

1. The idea of instinct isn't particularly innovative (the concept is in every second stealth related game released nowadays) and, personally, reduces some of the suspense of never knowing whether you're safe.

2. The player becomes overly reliant on it. And while you might say it can be ignored, 99% of players will use it, because it does make the game easier (I used it heaps more than was necessary), and that has to be the assumed play style from the developers perspective.

3.The arbitrary limitations on its use to improve disguises. I can see that the developers were really trying to get away from the simplicity of the suspicion meter, but having an orange bar tell the player whether or not they can remain undetected isn't much better. Is 47 really using that much energy maintaining a frown he can't lower his hat and turn his head one more time?

And here's some possible improvements.

1. The hitman series is one of the most innovative out there, and that's why I can't stand something as unoriginal as instinct. I think the best way to fix it is just to go back to how you would imagine the perfect killer would interpret his surroundings, just with more subtlety. Distinctive body language to show the player how an NPC feels eg. slightly suspicious=quick glances, look away if 47 looks back, or very suspicious=staring, whispering to others while looking in 47's direction, notifying police of concerns.

2.Use audio to inform, eg. footsteps are loud, especially in restricted areas, showing 47's focus on their sound, and also providing a direction from which an NPC will approach. Perhaps a map, not one that shows NPC's, but elements of the environment that 47 has made a mental note of eg. fall hazards, useful items, memorised patterns in guard or target movement, things an assassin would undoubtably memorise.

In implementing similar ideas, 47's instincts become less of a gameplay element to ignore or overuse but embedded in the gameplay, always working behind the scenes to give the player a slight edge, just as they would in reality, which, regardless of what it ends up being in Hitman 6, should always be the strongest influence on the continued development of the instinct mechanic.

IamRahx
1st Nov 2014, 10:16
Good ideas syncredulousitiness
I also recommended something like in the Last of Us. WHere when you focus you can pick up audio clues around you, shown as little soundwaves. This would work pretty well I think, since you won't know who or what is there only that something is making a sound. But I think the best and main focus should be on your second point: 'NPC Behaviour'. It will always be a better game if NPC's are interesting. That they react and look at you with suspision. Absolution did it pretty well, granted it was a bit too obvious at times: "I think...I know him" :whistle:
But it was a step in the right direction I guess. Maybe some should tailgate you, look the other way etc like you said.
But in my honest opinion, giving it more thought, the best experience I had with hitman was the lack of 'modern' mechanics. Humans will always find it hard to cope with change, I'm no exception. On the one hand I understand the devs trying to appeal to the 'modern' audience, that need some kind of trait like instinct. On the other, I like it clean and old school. KISS method.
Then again I loved TLOU, so just make a good game IO :cool:

FootFetish4Life
1st Nov 2014, 10:33
It will always be a better game if NPC's are interesting. That they react and look at you with suspision. Absolution did it pretty well, granted it was a bit too obvious at times: "I think...I know him...

I think the NPC's in Blood Money were better. Pretty much everybody in Blood Money would glance at you like they've seen you somewhere before. I think it added a sense of paranoia.

IamRahx
1st Nov 2014, 11:42
... I think it added a sense of paranoia.

Lol true. Only that all npc's had that "hand to chin" motion when they are suspicious. Absolution was a bit more diverse. Only thing was that annoying yellow arrow that would give away who was becoming suspicious, instead of you having to pay attention. It's definately more tense if you are in a disguise and walk past a cop and not know how suspicious he is. Rather than the uninnovative yellow arrow.

MrSyntax
22nd Feb 2015, 21:30
That's true that Instinct mode is something that we find in many games now but we must now that this is not something that is necessary to do to finish the game.It's an option and it might be useful for some people.So please,improve it and make it better for the new hitman6.