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View Full Version : POLL: Should the title of "Rise of the Tomb Raider" be changed?



Chameleojack
8th Aug 2014, 10:09
This is a poll, I have no idea where it will show up in this post or the title and I typed it using a smartphone. Hope it's legible. TL;DR: should the title of the 2015 Tomb Raider game be changed--for whatever reason?

[REDACTED]

Anyway, love the teaser or not, and the MEANING of "Rise" in context notwithstanding, who thinks at least that the title should be changed?

*EDIT* I cant find the checkbox to add the poll...can a mod fix this by adding a "yes"/"no" poll?

Rai
8th Aug 2014, 10:25
As the poll isn't there yet I can only answer in the post.

No. The title shouldn't be changed. Why? I wasn't sure about it at first, as you say, it's following in quite a few hollywood movies footsteps (and games?). However I think it fits what CD are going for with this game, going by the short description given. It isn't following TR tradition with numbers, and besides, TR2 or TRII would have stepping on TR2's ('97) toes. Nor is is using TR: subtitle or using Lara Croft in the title which makes it a refreshing change, imo. And finally, the words Tomb Raider ae still given emphasis in the logo.

CD may have chosen the name as it has similarities to a well known movie franchise, or they may have carefully thought through different title ideas until they came up with one that fits their vision. We can't jump to conclusions with their decisions or strategy.

You seem to have a thing about hoodies. The hoodie Lara is wearing in the trailer has a fair few connotations, I think. One of the main ones is merely to hide Lara's face before the reveal in the cavern. She may not be wearing a hoodie in the game, even if there's a scene like the bear chase.

About the poll, I think you have to have a certain number of post before you're able to create a poll.

Driber
8th Aug 2014, 10:40
I also vote no. I don't have a problem with the title.

First of all, we don't know at all if CD is trying to ride the coattail of Batman (why do people have a problem naming the aforementioned trilogy? :p) so at this point it's a complete and utter blind assumption.

Second, if so - so what? Nearly no work of art in the gaming/movie industry is 100% original. All those works of art are in some way or another inspired by other works of art, titles not excluded. Deal with it.

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/187/5/9/tr9_lara_deal_with_it_meme_by_driber-d567nf1.gif

I will admit, though, that even I had a knee-jerk reaction to the title when I first heard it. But that was short lived, and I've already grown used to it and do not see the title as a problem whatsoever. Especially, as Rai pointed out, it nicely works to avoid calling the game "TR2", which many fans would have hated, since that game already exist.


*EDIT* I cant find the checkbox to add the poll...can a mod fix this by adding a "yes"/"no" poll?

I would be more inclined to grant your request if the OP wasn't so incredibly cynical and biased, which I see as a transparent attempt at influencing the votes.

Chameleojack
8th Aug 2014, 10:53
@Rai, I suspected as much, thak you. I'll ask again in the future if this thread can't be updated, BUT I WANT TO READ ALL FORUM OPINIONS! :)

I think think "Rise of the Tomb Raider" was probably a working title they just went with immediately prior to E3 2014. It was certainly conceived with Dark Knight franchise in the back of a developer's head, as both franchises are a gritty reboot of an origin story.

I have it in for hoodies because lots game protagonists lately have that look, that gloomy, crumudgeonly demeanor and /or aesthetic to them already. I thought of Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, Assassin's Creed, Watch Dogs, even God of War, for some reason, and plenty of others, when I saw that teaser. Appealing to teenage angst (intentionally or otherwise) and doing THE SAME...OLD...THING, to me, is just appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Can't she have PTSD and NOT wear a grey hoodie, at least?

a_big_house
8th Aug 2014, 10:53
I also vote no.

I don't have a reason for my answer, I just like the title.

Chameleojack
8th Aug 2014, 11:02
I will admit, though, that even I had a knee-jerk reaction to the title when I first heard it. But that was short lived, and I've already grown used to it [...] I would be more inclined to grant your request if the OP wasn't so incredibly cynical and biased, which I see as a transparent attempt at influencing the votes.

If nothing else it makes a potentially great, enduring game sound like a cheesey flash-in-the-pan. I can only vote once, and I hardly see how talking through my dislike of the title now or after voting has started is Poisoning the Well.

No good can ever come from telling fans of big developers, with concerns, to "DEAL WITH IT," though. The internet was invented to share information and opinions, not shut down debate with a sneer.
I hope you reconsider. I will remove my first post opinion entirely to appease you?

Driber
8th Aug 2014, 11:05
I have it in for hoodies because lots game protagonists lately have that look, that gloomy, crumudgeonly demeanor and /or aesthetic to them already. I thought of Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, Assassin's Creed, Watch Dogs, even God of War, for some reason, and plenty of others, when I saw that teaser. Appealing to teenage angst (intentionally or otherwise) and doing THE SAME...OLD...THING, to me, is just appealing to the lowest common denominator.

So TR is following a trend, big deal. I think it's kinda OTT to be so angry about it, and ridicule a game (of which you've barely seen anything) by applying the lowest common denominator cliché.

Now, if TR followed the Twilight trend, that would be an entirely different thing altogether... then I would surely join you in your rage :D

BTW, aren't all AC games with hoodies? :scratch:


Can't she have PTSD and NOT wear a grey hoodie, at least?

You're judging solely on a few seconds of footage in a 2 minute announce trailer. I'd wait with your condemnation until you actually get to play the game yourself. I doubt we'll see Lara constantly in a hoody :)

Chameleojack
8th Aug 2014, 11:17
So TR is following a trend, big deal. I think it's kinda OTT to be so angry about it, and ridicule a game (of which you've barely seen anything) by applying the lowest common denominator cliché.
The "lowest common denominator" I was referring to is embracing ubiquitous trends in preexisting media.


Now, if TR followed the Twilight trend, that would be an entirely different thing altogether... then I would surely join you in your rage :D

BTW, aren't all AC games with hoodies? :scratch:
I always thought so, but I think there was brown or white a few times, lol



You're judging solely on a few seconds of footage in a 2 minute announce trailer. I'd wait with your condemnation until you actually get to play the game yourself. I doubt we'll see Lara constantly in a hoody :)

Oh, I'm sure she won't be seen in a hoodie, that was just for the teaser. There wasn't any gameplay shown at all, but that's a different topic for a different time. :D

Driber
8th Aug 2014, 11:19
If nothing else it makes a potentially great, enduring game sound like a cheesey flash-in-the-pan.

Disagree, but I understand how one could think so. Hell, maybe I'm just too biased myself, to see the cheesiness, heh.


I can only vote once, and I hardly see how talking through my dislike of the title now or after voting has started is Poisoning the Well.

Well it's like this: You're starting the thread in a heavily biased way. It's not just your opinion, but the way you voiced it (ridicule, sarcasm, etc). People read OPs before they vote; so their opinions are likely to be influenced, as opposed to starting a poll with a completely neutral OP, allowing people to fully think for themselves.

It's like you're setting up a voting station in a school for general elections, and before passing out the voting ballads to the people, you scream at the top of your lungs OPTION B TOTALLY SUCKS.


No good can ever come from telling fans of big developers, with concerns, to "DEAL WITH IT," though. The internet was invented to share information and opinions, not shut down debate with a sneer.

You know the deal with it is a meme, right? I wrote it in a humorous way, not as an attempt to shut down debate. By all means, please debate; that's the entire reason we have this forum in the first place :)

Also, please don't come on down me for sharing my opinion. That is kind of hypocritical...


I hope you reconsider. I will remove my first post opinion entirely to appease you?

It's not about appeasing me, personally. Remember, you asked me for a favor. And I'm under no obligation to fulfil your wish.

Let's just see where this thread goes in the next 24h...

d1n0_xD
8th Aug 2014, 11:21
I also vote no, because I like the title, makes sense :) Even if the past game was called Origins I wouldn't mind xD It separates it from being numbered again (it can cause confusion), and it tells something about the theme of the game :)

Driber
8th Aug 2014, 11:30
I also vote no, because I like the title, makes sense :) Even if the past game was called Origins I wouldn't mind xD It separates it from being numbered again (it can cause confusion), and it tells something about the theme of the game :)

Do you really mean just "Origins"? I would not like that title :/

Or you mean "Tomb Raider Origins"? A bit better, I suppose, but still kinda weird, IMO.

Chameleojack
8th Aug 2014, 11:40
They can call it "TR: Electric Boogaloo", it would still sound like less of a ripoff! XD. I admit I even thought The Dark Knight Rises sounded a little contrived and melodramatic at the time it was announced. That's why hearing that title again on a game box sounds so odd.

I knew immediately that Tomb Raider 2013 was a ripoff of x Resident Evil 4, and that was OK because I loved Resident Evil 4, and then it looked like we were getting more of it. The biggest of the few problems I had when I got to playing it though was that the dialog was bad and the wafer-thin characters were taking eachother too seriously. With better writing, they could have played it straight and it would be as good as The Last of Us...almost. But one thing "Rise of the Tomb Raider" is doing again now is taking itself too seriously again, and no matter how pretty the game looks, it really shouldn't try that again without better writing (yet to be seen) and a serious title.

Rai
8th Aug 2014, 12:00
@Rai, I suspected as much, thak you. I'll ask again in the future if this thread can't be updated, BUT I WANT TO READ ALL FORUM OPINIONS! :)

I think think "Rise of the Tomb Raider" was probably a working title they just went with immediately prior to E3 2014. It was certainly conceived with Dark Knight franchise in the back of a developer's head, as both franchises are a gritty reboot of an origin story.



I highly doubt Crystal Dynamics would announce their AAA game at a world widely recognised gaming convention with a working title, at least without admitting it's a working title (which would be unprofessional as we've known a sequel was in the works for a year). The title appears in the trailer. Now I don't know how long it takes to make a 2 minute long CGI trailer, but I imagine they'd have had this ready some weeks before E3 and would't quickly add in a working title last minute.

Now you might not like it and you're not alone. Others have also voiced their dislike for it, but I'm betting RotTR is the final title.

Chameleojack
8th Aug 2014, 12:08
I highly doubt Crystal Dynamics would announce their AAA game at a world widely recognised gaming convention with a working title, at least without admitting it's a working title (which would be unprofessional as we've known a sequel was in the works for a year). The title appears in the trailer. Now I don't know how long it takes to make a 2 minute long CGI trailer, but I image they'd have had this ready some weeks before E3 and would't quickly add in a working title last minute.

Now you might not like it and you're not alone. Others have also voiced their dislike for it, but I'm betting RotTR is the final title.

That does appear to be the title they're going for..."Immediately before" is still relative. They still needed a title card at the end of the TEASER, which they could render separately from the rest of the video. Seems reasonable to me they said, "Eh, screw it, we'll stick with 'RotTR'! :P". It's not important when they decided on the title, it should just be changed. Movie Studios change the names of movies all the time in the middle of production, before and after big press releases.

it used to take months to render scenes for Pixar movies...

Metalrocks
8th Aug 2014, 12:55
i would vote "no" as well.
the title tells me that it is a slow progression of lara becoming a raider. which owuld make sense. calling her self a raider just after surviving an island full of murderous fanatics does not really make a full raider.

Chocolate_shake
8th Aug 2014, 12:58
I also find the title to be a bit off putting , but I am used to it now. Its not such a big deal for me . I am more interested/anxious about the gameplay .

As said earlier , the name fits in the context of the story they want to tell in this adventure .

Frankly , as long as Tomb Raider is in the title , I am okay with whatever they see fit to use as a title .

d1n0_xD
8th Aug 2014, 13:00
Do you really mean just "Origins"? I would not like that title :/

Or you mean "Tomb Raider Origins"? A bit better, I suppose, but still kinda weird, IMO.

Yes, yes, Tomb Raider Origins xD Yes, it's a little bit weird, but I wouldn't mind it, especially since lots of people complained that Tomb Raider already exists xD So, it's an addition to my point that the title "Rise of the Tomb Raider" should stay :)

Driber
8th Aug 2014, 15:56
I highly doubt Crystal Dynamics would announce their AAA game at a world widely recognised gaming convention with a working title, at least without admitting it's a working title (which would be unprofessional as we've known a sequel was in the works for a year). The title appears in the trailer. Now I don't know how long it takes to make a 2 minute long CGI trailer, but I imagine they'd have had this ready some weeks before E3 and would't quickly add in a working title last minute.

Now you might not like it and you're not alone. Others have also voiced their dislike for it, but I'm betting RotTR is the final title.

Rise is not a working title. The working title for the game was "Tomb Raider 10", until the official name was made public a few months ago.


Movie Studios change the names of movies all the time in the middle of production, before and after big press releases.

True, but AFAIK CD has no history of changing official titles once they have been made public.


Yes, yes, Tomb Raider Origins xD Yes, it's a little bit weird, but I wouldn't mind it, especially since lots of people complained that Tomb Raider already exists xD So, it's an addition to my point that the title "Rise of the Tomb Raider" should stay :)

Okay, gotcha :)

Rai
8th Aug 2014, 16:30
Rise is not a working title. The working title for the game was "Tomb Raider 10", until the official name was made public a few months ago.





Well exactly, this was my point in response to Chameleojack :). Perhaps my 'I'm betting' wording was misjudged. Sorry about that :p.

Chameleojack
8th Aug 2014, 20:50
Rise is not a working title. The working title for the game was "Tomb Raider 10", until the official name was made public a few months ago.



True, but AFAIK CD has no history of changing official titles once they have been made public.

LOL, alright, no more conjecture, you've got the inside-info! :D. I still think it's a silly title for a game that takes itself so seriously. As long as there's no cringe-y dialog this time or incessant sound effects, I can let it go. It'll be like a Miss America pageant: If the view is nice and she's fun to play with, I can forgive any of the stupid * she says. B)
...
(Not really; I can't stand those pageants)

ARaider
8th Aug 2014, 22:18
I also vote no, because I like the title.
But well Lara is rising as a new person so it all makes sense (at least to me). :D
I'm not so good at explaining. :p

Tihocan
8th Aug 2014, 23:07
Is there an option C - "Meh"?

For me, the only slightly personal thing to contend with is that it's now "all about Lara", rather than what Lara's up to. e.g. Tomb Raider The Dagger of Xian as opposed to Rise of the Dragon.
Er... Tomb Raider... Rise of the Tomb Raider...

Oh, I made a funny...

pidipidi39
8th Aug 2014, 23:14
I actually like the title.
Sounds cool, y'know.

Murphdawg1
10th Aug 2014, 00:52
I wouldn't mind seeing the title changed/shortened, just seems too long for a video game title and not to have Tomb Raider at the beginning of the title like the previous one did just seems odd.

d1n0_xD
10th Aug 2014, 01:21
^ I don't know, it doesn't seem long to me... It's up there with Bioshock Infinite, The Last of Us, Dragon Age: Origins or The Legend of Zelda... And past TR titles were pretty big on the names too xD

But I do expect they return to Tomb Raider: BADASS WORD(S) after this one, it just makes sense :)

WinterSoldierLTE
10th Aug 2014, 01:31
Is it cheesy? Kind of. Does it fit perfectly with what's told in the story? We'll find out. Should It be changed? Honestly, I dunno. At this point it could go either way. When we all get a chance to play it is when I think it'll be fair to say: "Bah! This should've been called Rise Of Crap On A Stick!" or: "Whoa! Should've just called it Tomb Raider: Brilliant!"

My initial thought upon hearing the title was: "But, I thought we saw her transformation in TR9?".

For me personally, it's just too early to tell, or pass judgements.

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 01:51
Is it cheesy? Kind of. Does it fit perfectly with what's told in the story? We'll find out. Should It be changed? Honestly, I dunno. At this point it could go either way. When we all get a chance to play it is when I think it'll be fair to say: "Bah! This should've been called Rise Of Crap On A Stick!" or: "Whoa! Should've just called it Tomb Raider: Brilliant!"

My initial thought upon hearing the title was: "But, I thought we saw her transformation in TR9?".

For me personally, it's just too early to tell, or pass judgements.

It's cheesy because it sounds like a send-up of itself! XD
It's not too early, an "origin" or "transformation" story can have any title it wants, it's not limited to a "Rise of" prefix. It sounded odd when Christopher Nolan used it in the suffix first (in recent memmory) (moreso because he had the entire title of the first sequel embedded in the second). There wasn't much he could do to have cohesive nomenclature by that point though, I think he should have been creative again for the third installment's title . He painted himself info a corner once he decided to stay with the Dark Knight reference though. The second movie was wildly more successful than the first (not that the first wasn't), and he wanted to capitalize on the name. He sure didn't want to drag out "Batman [Etcetera]" nomenclature again. So the third movie in the trilogy just sounds odd. *shrug* Even in hindsight, and even though Bain said "rise" a couple of times...it shouldn't have been called "The Dark Knight Rises".

Driber
10th Aug 2014, 12:34
Heh, good point regarding past games, Dino. If the fans embraced a title like Lara Croft Tomb Raider The Angel of Darkness, I'm sure they can stand ROTT :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/Tomb_Raider_-_The_Angel_of_Darkness.png


My initial thought upon hearing the title was: "But, I thought we saw her transformation in TR9?".

TR9 transformed an inexperienced girl into a survivor. In TR10 that survivor will learn what it means to become a tomb raider.

:)


It's not too early, an "origin" or "transformation" story can have any title it wants, it's not limited to a "Rise of" prefix.

Okay so if instead of using "Rise of" the title had included something like "origin", "the birth of", "is born", "beginning" etc. then instead of you making a thread complaining about the cheesiness of "rise of" someone else would have made a thread complaining about the cheesiness and/or unoriginality of any of those other options.

It's impossible to always please everyone.

d1n0_xD
10th Aug 2014, 12:47
Yep, I even forgot there was "Lara Croft" at the beginning too, so it's damn sure long xD


TR9 transformed an inexperienced girl into a survivor. In TR10 that survivor will learn what it means to become a tomb raider.

:)

Nice explanation, Driber, and one that makes sense to me and it's hyping me for the game :3

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 12:50
Heh, good point regarding past games, Dino. If the fans embraced a title like Lara Croft Tomb Raider The Angel of Darkness, I'm sure they can stand ROTT :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/Tomb_Raider_-_The_Angel_of_Darkness.png



TR9 transformed an inexperienced girl into a survivor. In TR10 that survivor will learn what it means to become a tomb raider.

:)

Why is Eidos content with "odd" and "cheesey" titles and imagery it thinks it's audience can "stand" though? If they want to be so super-serious in their new games, why are they sticking with Bollywood titles and imagery?

I take issue with the "transformation" argument fans and developers keep pushing. Like many have said before (and all criticism is WRONG, because TR9 was PERFECT, right?), she didn't "transform" as much as she was just thrown down a few cliffs. You'd think that after the first one or two rough experiences, she'd bite her tongue or just otherwise stay quiet. She's in the wilderness surrounded by wild animals, for godsake, but she moans and whines nauseatingly to whom? Her mommy? Who's there to kiss her boo-boos? If I cut myself on a hiking trail I don't cry like a child. People getting their legs blown off in the Middle East seldom cry about it (right after, anyway. See Liveleak footage). Whenever she talks to another character, she sounds frightened and uncertain from the beginning of the game to the very end, with very few exceptions, it was ANNOYING. The director did not make sure Lara's response to adversity was maturing, much less that she put herself in harms way, as opposed to literally getting dropped into it. He just assumed grittiness required shrieks of agony, so the character arc--the premise behind TR9--was shot. THERE WAS NO "TRANSFORMATION".

Driber
10th Aug 2014, 12:56
Why is Eidos content with "odd" and "cheesey" titles and imagery it thinks it's audience can "stand" though? If they want to be so super-serious in their new fames, why are they sticking with Bollywood titles and imagery?

Completely disagree.

First of all, AoD was not cheesy. It fit the style of the game just fine.

Second, a game is not going to fail or success depending on its title. Don't make it seem more important than it is.

Third, CD doesn't want to be "super serious". That's PR mantra you've bought into :p

Forth, did you just dis Bollywood movies?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/F9G0RJmm3KQ/hqdefault.jpg

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 13:38
Completely disagree.

First of all, AoD was not cheesy. It fit the style of the game just fine.

you can't tell me the box art up there doesn't smell like munster! :D


Second, a game is not going to fail or success depending on its title. Don't make it seem more important than it is.

If something can be improved, it should be. The fanboy approach of "LEAVE HER ALONE!!!" isn't going to make Brittany Spears, Miley Cyrus, or "good enough" (or even deceptive) games better. It just leads to stagnation. "It isn't important/It doesn't matter" is the worst argument a fan can make in defense of something they love. Big names will always have their hardcore fans, but bad marketting and labeling hurts brands (ask Nintendo). Titles can be important to the message you want to convey to potential consumers. I would just as soon advise against Anthony Weiner calling his autobiography "Anthony Weiner Rises"...if I were a fan.


Third, CD doesn't want to be "super serious". That's PR mantra you've bought into :p
That was made clear after the whole TR9 "rape-scene" moral-panic was extinguished with "no-no, if you let the marooner feel her up longer, you'll see he just breaks her neck" explanation. It was a very dark RE4 clone that took itself too seriously. The only humorous part of the game were the ethnic stereotypes of her companions, but I doubt CD wants to flaunt that.


Forth, did you just dis Bollywood movies?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/F9G0RJmm3KQ/hqdefault.jpg

LOL, come at me, bro! XD
(Bollywood = B-movies, not necessarily Indian flicks)

Driber
10th Aug 2014, 14:02
Like many have said before

What is with the constant appeal to numbers fallacy? Can't you make an argument without mentioning that you've seen others sharing your opinions?

Just because certain POVs are popular doesn't mean they are any more valid. People can be wrong about things on a massive scale, as we see happen in society time after time again.


(and all criticism is WRONG, because TR9 was PERFECT, right?)

And another fallacy - a straw man argument.

No one is asserting that TR9 was perfect, nor that all criticism about the game is wrong.


she didn't "transform" as much as she was just thrown down a few cliffs.

What a gross exaggeration.


You'd think that after the first one or two rough experiences, she'd bite her tongue or just otherwise stay quiet. She's in the wilderness surrounded by wild animals, for godsake, but she moans and whines nauseatingly to whom? Her mommy? Who's there to kiss her boo-boos? If I cut myself on a hiking trail I don't cry like a child. People getting their legs blown off in the Middle East seldom cry about it (right after, anyway. See Liveleak footage). Whenever she talks to another character, she sounds frightened and uncertain from the beginning of the game to the very end, with very few exceptions, it was ANNOYING. The director did not make sure Lara's response to adversity was maturing, much less that she put herself in harms way, rather than get dropped into it. He just assumed grittiness required shrieks of agony, so the character arc--the premise behind TR9--was shot. THERE WAS NO "TRANSFORMATION".

The transformation may not have been executed to your personal taste, but there indeed was one.

BTW, you seem to really have a LOT of beef with the last game. You know, there is an entire dedicated forum section about TR9 here. I recommend you stop by there and have a long *****fest about everything you hated about TR9 to get it out of your system, so that we can avoid threads in the TR10 forum from derailing into TR9 rants.




you can't tell me the box art up there doesn't smell like munster! :D

No idea what that is.


If something can be improved, it should be.

This generalization is meaningless.


The fanboy approach of "LEAVE HER ALONE!!!" isn't going to make Brittany Spears, Miley Cyrus, or "good enough" (or even deceptive) games better. It just leads to stagnation.

Oh you thought I am a fanboy?

http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Oh-You-Make-Me-Cry-Laughing-Meme-Rage-Face-.png


"It isn't important/It doesn't matter is the worst argument a fan can make in defense of something they love.

This time you got it correct - I'm a fan.

And as a fan, I am fine with the title. I don't think it's cheesy, nor do I share your unsubstantial assumptions about the title hurting the franchise.


Big names will always have their hardcore fans, but bad marketting and labeling hurts brands (ask Nintendo).


I'm not even a hardcore fan. You may call me a moderate fan of the franchise.

And I sincerely hope you are not comparing Rise (the title of a TR game) to WiiU (a console name). That would be comparing apples to oranges pitayas.


Titles can be important to the message you want to convey to potential consumers. I would just as soon advise against Anthony Weiner calling his autobiography "Anthony Weiner Rises"...if I were a fan.


:D

I disagree with your point, but I commend you on that humorous twist involving Anthony Weiner. Well played, good Sir.


That was made clear after the whole TR9 "rape-scene" moral-panic was extinguished with "no-no, if you let the marooner feel her up longer, you'll see he just breaks her neck" explanation.

Oh boy. Maybe you should the Vlad discussion (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=115168&page=30). We could have some fun, you and I :p


It was a very dark RE4 clone that took itself too seriously. The only humorous part of the game were the ethnic stereotypes of her companions, but I doubt CD wants to flaunt that.


Are you by any chance related to Phaid....?


LOL, come at me, bro! XD
(Bollywood = B-movies, not necessarily Indian flicks)

Interesting definition.

Thanks for clearing that up.

WinterSoldierLTE
10th Aug 2014, 14:08
What I meant by cheesy was that if you just say the title, and know nothing about what happens in the story, it could be considered very pretentious. Obviously, I know very little about what actually happens in the story, so at this point it either fits it 100%, or it doesn't.

The only way I can think to explain is by liking it to band names. If you're going to call your band Slayer, you have to earn that name. You can't be called Slayer and have songs that sound like Pat Benatar or Brittney Spears.

Will the games success be hindered by the name, even if the name doesn't suit the contents within said game? Absolutely not. A good game is a good game, and it takes a certain kind of person to not buy one because it has a strange/odd/cheesy title. A lot of great games have very strange titles that if you know nothing about the game, will make you go: "What the heck is THAT?" Metal Gear Solid, Parasite Eve, and even Resident Evil spring to mind right off the top of my head. These names/titles are iconic now to those "in-the-know", but say you weren't "in-the-know"?

Driber
10th Aug 2014, 14:18
A good game is a good game, and it takes a certain kind of person to not buy one because it has a strange/odd/cheesy title. A lot of great games have very strange titles that if you know nothing about the game, will make you go: "What the heck is THAT?" Metal Gear Solid, Parasite Eve, and even Resident Evil spring to mind right off the top of my head.

Excellent points :thumb:

Metalrocks
10th Aug 2014, 14:25
have to agree that AOD is not cheesy. sure long but it fits the theme of the game. it was dark, so as the story. just wish it wasnt as buggy as hell on the pc.
which reminds me that when i was teaching a topic about good and evil, it had a little listening exercise were two girls talk about AOD. they had 5 multiple choice questions (and of course i could answer them all even without listening to the CD) regarding the conversation.
so the one girl protested that lara is this super woman and what ever she does, is right, and everyone else is wrong. wile the other explained the story to her how lara is being hunted by the police.

otherwise i still stick to what i said a page back why i think the title is suitable.

and what winter said about titles that dont make a game automatically bad.

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 14:31
too long to quote

Don't misunderstand, TR9 was my favorite game of that year, moreso even than The Last of Us. In fact, I was as sure then as I am now that it was one of the most fun gaming experiences I'd ever had. I was just disappointed at how the developers were responding to criticism. The story/acting execution and gameplay execution just weren't on the same level of quality, it was so unfortunate. I only brought it up again because people keep telling me "Oh, it SHOULD be called "Rise" because they're so committed to origins and transformations, you know?!" and I'm in no way convinced CD is committed to seeing that through objectively.


Oh you thought I am a fanboy?
http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Oh-You-Make-Me-Cry-Laughing-Meme-Rage-Face-.png
Driber, I was not even refering to you, but yes, you are TOTALLY a fanboy, lol, your first response to the idea of changing the title was:


http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/187/5/9/tr9_lara_deal_with_it_meme_by_driber-d567nf1.gif

I want to keep things civil, it's fine to tease the million-dollar development team and it's fine to point out logical fallacies of forum members (which I have not made; you have misinterpreted the nature of my arguments...you have convinced yourself this is a war or something), but snickering and taunting people with offensive imagery like a child in a schoolyard is... (excuse my redundance) immature. Please stop being so defensive, nothing here should be personal.


stuff
Excellent argument, I agree. The Tomb Raider brand is ubiquitous and a good gameplay trailer is all it would take for the most remote gamer to buy their copy. My argument was never "Change the title BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!", it's just a bird turd that I think should be washed off the corner of my new Ferrari's windshield before I drive it off the lot. :)

d1n0_xD
10th Aug 2014, 14:37
^ Wait, you liked it more than The Last of Us, but still think think story and gameplay had issues? I don't understand that xD

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 14:43
^ Wait, you liked it more than The Last of Us, but still think think story and gameplay had issues? I don't understand that xD

No, lol. I said the story/acting didn't stand up to the excellent gameplay and atmosphere of the rest of the game. That's what kept it from being a "10" for me. It was like graphics were ahead of its time but the narrative was shoddy. I was sad it was just short of greatness, *artistically*-speaking. It was trapped in the "poor story-execution makes dramatic game campy" zone. I want games to transcend film, but developers who sneer at criticism and half-ass the narrative details ruin that for AAA ti.e and time again. I saw potential for TR9 to transcend TLoU (which had ground-breaking cinematography, acting, script, direction, but many complained of bland gameplay). But the game was always just "good enough" for fans and the developers. :(

I just see the same half-baked mentality for TR10. The title and teaser are just symptoms.

Driber
10th Aug 2014, 15:22
I was just disappointed at how the developers were responding to criticism.

And what does that have to do with the title of TR10?


I only brought it up again because people keep telling me "Oh, it SHOULD be called "Rise" because they're so committed to origins and transformations, you know?!"

That's a misrepresentation of what people have said in this thread.


and I'm in no way convinced CD is committed to seeing that through objectively.

So it's not just about a "cheesy" title. Your assumption is that the title is not going to be "delivered" in the game. Well, then you're simply jumping the gun.

How about coming back to complain about the title when you've played the game?


And @Driber, you are TOTALLY a fanboy, your first response the idea of changing the title was:

I fail to see how posting a meme in jest makes anyone a fanboy.

Defending a game to death when faced with any criticism would make someone a fanboy. You just joined the forum and you've only seen me saying that I don't have a problem with the title of TR10. So that's jumping the gun, once again.

Go have a look at my posts in the TR9 section. You'll find plenty of them where I expressed criticism :p


I want to keep things civil

You're not doing a good job of it then. In your short forum stay you've already been slapped on the wrist for calling a big house a jerk, and mocking others.


it's fine to tease the million-dollar development team

Of course it is! What made you think it wasn't? People disagreeing with you?


and it's fine to point out logical fallacies (which I have not made; you misinterpret my arguments

You're going to have to do better to show that your logical fallacies were not logical fallacies than just saying "they weren't".

Not that I encourage further derailment, mind you. I'm just saying that I don't buy it.


because you have convinced yourself this is a war or something)

A war? Not at all. I'm just refuting your arguments. Dunno why you would even bring up the term "war". Maybe that says more about your intentions in the discussion...


, but snickering at people and showboating with offensive imagery like a child in a schoolyard is... (excuse my redundance) immature.

Offensive? What image did you find offensive? The one "oh, please" meme I posted in response to you rudely calling me a fanboy out of the blue and completely unfounded?

BTW, I do hope this will be the last of your string of ad hominems, else I may have to put my admin hat on to warn you about taking things too far.


Please stop being so defensive

You keep coming at me with personal remarks, and I should not defend myself? Right. Makes sense :nut:


nothing here should be personal.

Finally something we can agree on ;)


Excellent argument, I agree. The Tomb Raider brand is ubiquitous and a good gameplay trailer is all it would take for the most remote gamer to buy their copy. My argument was never "Change the title BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!", it's just a bird turd that I think should be washed off the corner of my new Ferrari ' windshield before I take it off the lot. :)

I don't think any good is going too come from this constant string of mocking sarcasm to put people's opinions down...

d1n0_xD
10th Aug 2014, 15:53
else I may have to put my admin hat on to warn you about taking things too far.

Watch him say you're overexercising your role as an admin and threatening him with your authority :p

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 17:28
And what does that have to do with the title of TR10?

That's a misrepresentation of what people have said in this thread.

No, it's come up as justification for calling the title "Rise".


So it's not just about a "cheesy" title. Your assumption is that the title is not going to be "delivered" in the game. Well, then you're simply jumping the gun.
No, that was my response to the continuoty-justification. I still think it sounds like a cheesey ripoff, and I accept that you don't agree.


How about coming back to complain about the title when you've played the game?
If I still thought "The Dark Knight Rises" sounded cheesey after I saw (and enjoyed) the movie, I imagine the same would go for "Rise of the Tomb Raider"...and "Ryse: Son of Rome", and "Rise of the Planet of the Apes", all of which I mostly enjoyed.


I fail to see how posting a meme in jest makes anyone a fanboy.
Deal with it.


Defending a game to death when faced with any criticism would make someone a fanboy. You just joined the forum and you've only seen me saying that I don't have a problem with the title of TR10. So that's jumping the gun, once again.

Go have a look at my posts in the TR9 section. You'll find plenty of them where I expressed criticism :p
I'm really not interested in debating you, man. There's a difference between being critical and being snide, and you don't seem to know it.



Your not doing a good job of it then. In your short forum stay you've already been slapped on the wrist for calling a big house a jerk, and mocking others.
the only "person" I have ever mocked (I'd say teased) were anonymous game developers. I explained myself to Big House at the time I said he has no cause to be condescending (ie a jerk).




Of course it is! What made you think it wasn't? People disagreeing with you?
no, your interpretation that any run at a developer's bad idea is a run at you (see last quote)




You're going to have to do better to show that your logical fallacies were not logical fallacies than just saying "they weren't".
Considering only the "appeal to numbers fallacy" allegation:
1) the first time you said I made this fallacy was when I noted lots of people thought TR9 "AT SOME POINT crossed the line". Some individuals (maybe you) were of the opinion it was simply NOT a big deal, that critics were essentially "not getting it". I explicitly refered to the developers who at the time we're initially dismissive of fans crying out. All I said was that in the hypothetical situation where one side must be correct and one side must not, the numbers of gamer-fans and reviewers (the studio's target audience, mostly) who said it was the studio who essentially "didn't get it" were vastly greater, and so unreasonable to dismiss their opinion as unfounded.
2) I wasn't trying to debate about numbers at all that time, I was just being humble about bringing up TR9 again since someone had just referenced it.


Not that I encourage further derailment, mind you. I'm just saying that I don't buy it.

A war? Not at all. I'm just refuting your arguments. Dunno why you would even bring up the term "war". Maybe that says more about your intentions in the discussion...
this is what I mean, pls just calm down. :(


Offensive? What image did you find offensive? The one "oh, please" meme I posted in response to you rudely calling me a fanboy out of the blue and completely unfounded?
read the post again, I didn't call you a fanboy! You thought I was talking about you because you're dogging me, working yourself up, just STOP, PLEASE. You made the "small ***** defense" YOURSELF and I just said yeah, now that you're doing this, totally!


BTW, I do hope this will be the last of your string of ad hominems, else I may have to put my admin hat on to warn you about taking things too far
it's in your imagination, I hope you review your own posts and see that you're practically yelling every time you try to debate.



You keep coming at me with personal remarks, and I should not defend myself? Right. Makes sense :nut:
you were indistinguishable to me before you were pretentious enough to say I called *you* a fanboy. I did not even remember you were the guy who dismissively told me to "deal with it" (extremely rude) when I first proposed the poll. To quote Howard Roark: "But I don't think of you."


Finally something we can agree on ;)



I don't think any good is going too come from this constant string of mocking sarcasm to put people's opinions down...
Is a light bulb turning on over your head too? We're accusing eachother of the same thing. Do you want to make a truce?

*I will no longer tease developers or make dismissive allusions to their work, or put labels on anonymous collective users to prevent the inference of personal attacks. I will certainly not call anyone names. I *will* say "you are being condescending and that is bullying".
*YOU will not use memes of any sort to be dismissive of other people, their character, or their arguments. You will not use strong language like "you failed" or "you're goingbto have to do better" and will take extra care to not sound intense while debating. With this post, I'm sure I sound too intense but my phone is too limmited to rephrase anything, it would take an hour.

we will both assume we were misinterpreting eachother and START OVER, anyplace else, never quoting this conversation. I will take your word that I'm wrong about everything you've said if you will take mine the same way. I'm fine with the whole thread being dumped. I have nothing more to add to this thread, I simply think a better name could and should be selected, any disagreements are valid to me and I have no desire to change peoples' minds.

I type all my posts on a smartphone, hence the errors.

d1n0_xD
10th Aug 2014, 17:47
^ You're misreading Driber's posts.

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 17:53
^ You're misreading Driber's posts.

And he's misreading mine. It happens a lot on the internet.

ARaider
10th Aug 2014, 18:07
Damn people calm down its just title the world isn't going to explode. :p
What does it matter anyway? You're playing the game, not the title.

And to @chameleojack (no offense just saying) : "you're searching for logic and reason when there is none" And a good lesson: never ever get personal with a admin! :D

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 18:14
Damn people calm down its just title the world isn't going to explode. :p
What does it matter anyway? You're playing the game, not the title.

And to @chameleojack (no offense just saying) : "you're searching for logic and reason when there is none" And a good lesson: never ever get personal with a admin! :D

LOL, that's for sure, on all counts! Really wish this could have just been a sstraight-up-poll like I wanted in the first place, there's no objective way to confirm or deny cheesey or awesome game titles :D. I should never have took a position in the first post, that was dumb. This whole thread is and always was pointless.

ATTN ADMINS, PLS EUTHANIZE THIS THREAD!

WinterSoldierLTE
10th Aug 2014, 20:33
I should never have took a position in the first post, that was dumb. This whole thread is and always was pointless.

ATTN ADMINS, PLS EUTHANIZE THIS THREAD!

I found it fascinating. Bit of a debate's always nice now and again. And with any debate, people may get heated from time to time, but at the end of the day, I'm sure we're all on the same side.

Murphdawg1
10th Aug 2014, 20:40
Anyone else looking forward to this series?

o3MWXRT7GU8

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 20:50
Anyone else looking forward to this series?

o3MWXRT7GU8

Well...let's just say I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised, but not counting on it. I didn't think I'd love "Masters of Sex" either, but now I think it's the best show on television, so I guess the least I can do is give Gotham a chance.

Valenka
10th Aug 2014, 22:03
I don't much care for the title, but I don't think they should change it either. It speaks volumes on what Lara endured on Yamatai and the subsequent events. Some forum members have argued that the title is redundant considering that Lara technically rose in the last game, to which I agree to an extent, but if I can be philosophical for a moment, I think they were going for the idea that after everything Lara went through on the island, now she's rising and embracing the person she's meant to be.

Driber
10th Aug 2014, 22:39
@Chameleojack, Dino is correct - you are (grossly) misreading my posts. There really was no need for you to get so worked up.

There's also no need for any "truce", as per your offer (I appreciate the gesture, nonetheless). As I said earlier, I am not in any "war" with you. I understand that to you this felt like some kind of fight, however, I didn't experience it like that. If you felt any "hostile" or "heated up" tone from my posts, I can tell you that you've read into it. I was actually quite calm throughout our back-and-forth. And despite some of the below-the-belt jabs you slung at me, I have no ill-feeling to you at all.

As for your other points in that last lengthy post aimed at me, I'm gonna go ahead and leave them be. Too many wrong things to correct; it would take me a long time to debunk/clarify everything, and frankly, I'd rather just move on.

As for your request to kill this thread - I'm not going to do that. A lot of members have weighed in with their $0.02 by now and killing the thread at this point would be unfair to them. Just carry on keeping it constructive from here on and the thread will be fine :)

Murphdawg1
10th Aug 2014, 22:55
Well...let's just say I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised, but not counting on it. I didn't think I'd love "Masters of Sex" either, but now I think it's the best show on television, so I guess the least I can do is give Gotham a chance.

I actually meant to post this in the off topic thread.

_Ninja_
10th Aug 2014, 23:06
I can live with the title if the game itself won't be like the title -- more generic than vanilla.

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 23:43
@Chameleojack, Dino is correct - you are (grossly) misreading my posts. There really was no need for you to get so worked up.

There's also no need for any "truce", as per your offer (I appreciate the gesture, nonetheless). As I said earlier, I am not in any "war" with you. I understand that to you this felt like some kind of fight, however, I didn't experience it like that. If you felt any "hostile" or "heated up" tone from my posts, I can tell you that you've read into it. I was actually quite calm throughout our back-and-forth. And despite some of the below-the-belt jabs you slung at me, I have no ill-feeling to you at all.

As for your other points in that last lengthy post aimed at me, I'm gonna go ahead and leave them be. Too many wrong things to correct; it would take me a long time to debunk/clarify everything, and frankly, I'd rather just move on.

As for your request to kill this thread - I'm not going to do that. A lot of members have weighed in with their $0.02 by now and killing the thread at this point would be unfair to them. Just carry on keeping it constructive from here on and the thread will be fine :)
Wow...just wow, man. I told you I had to check your username after page 2 to even distinguish who you are and you're still convinced I've always had it in for you? I humbled myself even though I thought you were at best exaggerating and all I asked is you not tell forum members to "Deal with It", etc? (how else is anyone supposed to interpret that other than short-handed for "shut-up"?) A representative of a company like Eidos should be more professional and respectful than to do things like that. There was never a negative comment explicitly directed at you, even though some posts in response to my arguments seemed extremely passionate (those turned out to all be by you, I had not even noticed). When you try to make a conversation all about you though, it becomes about you. You cannot take my word that you have misinterpreted me, but I must take yours after the things you've said? That's megalomania. I reached out to you TWICE on this forum (I had even forgotten it was you the first time, too!) and both times you rejected my desire for a tension-free thread. It's all documented here under this trite subject that somehow became personal to you. Good luck in life.

Rai
10th Aug 2014, 23:45
Slight change of subject, but it's sort of connected. Did anyone else think the logo for the game would be less tatty? I was half expecting a sort of reverse Harry Potter logo effect. With the HP movies, the title of HP1 was all shiny and new but by HP8 it was looking worn and old. TR'13's logo represented the ordeal she went through and the resulting physical effect it had on her (and mentally?). I thought TR10's logo would be neater, representing Lara's more experienced state, yet RoTTR's logo is just as beat up as the last ones :p.

d1n0_xD
10th Aug 2014, 23:48
@Chameleojack - Well, I interpret "deal with it" as a joke, as I bet many other members did as well xD And he isn't a representative of the company, he's a forum admin.

I don't know, man, but Driber has been nothing but civil and calm, he was just arguing your points in a friendly debate xD Maybe it's just me being here for 5 years that I get him, but seriously you're the one who's getting worked up, IMO. :)

I would chalk it up to you being a new member so you're not familiar with this community, but still, Driber was very calm and argued your points directly... You felt attacked, for some reason.

CakeLuv
10th Aug 2014, 23:48
Slight change of subject, but it's sort of connected. Did anyone else think the logo for the game would be less tatty? I was half expecting a sort of reverse Harry Potter logo effect. With the HP movies, the title of HP1 was all shiny and new but by HP8 it was looking worn and old. TR'13's logo represented the ordeal she went through and the resulting physical effect it had on her (and mentally?). I thought TR10's logo would be neater, representing Lara's more experienced state, yet RoTTR's logo is just as beat up as the last ones :p.

Well, she's still crazy and her mental state is even worse lol

d1n0_xD
10th Aug 2014, 23:52
^ To me, it's just a font they're using, and without those little effects, it would be just bland, white letters xD

pidipidi39
10th Aug 2014, 23:55
^ To me, it's just a font they're using, and without those little effects, it would be just bland, white letters xD
Eggsactly.

Chameleojack
10th Aug 2014, 23:57
@Chameleojack - Well, I interpret "deal with it" as a joke, as I bet many other members did as well xD And he isn't a representative of the company, he's a forum admin.

I don't know, man, but Driber has been nothing but civil and calm, he was just arguing your points in a friendly debate xD Maybe it's just me being here for 5 years that I get him, but seriously you're the one who's getting worked up, IMO. :)

I would chalk it up to you being a new member so you're not familiar with this community, but still, Driber was very calm and argued your points directly... You felt attacked, for some reason.

could you please explain it to me then?

Rai
10th Aug 2014, 23:59
Well, she's still crazy and her mental state is even worse lol

Well, yeah, but...but Rise is about Lara accepting who she's become, so, yeah, it would be less tatty. And then in TR11 it would be an improvement again to shiny and new or tomb raider-y. :p.


^ To me, it's just a font they're using, and without those little effects, it would be just bland, white letters xD

It wouldn't have to be plain white though to show the changes in Lara. But yeah, if you want to spoil it and it is just a font. :( :rasp:

@pidipidi, you keep them eggs out of it :nut:

Driber
11th Aug 2014, 00:56
Wow...just wow, man. I told you I had to check your username after page 2 to even distinguish who you are and you're still convinced I've always had it in for you? I humbled myself even though I thought you were at best exaggerating and all I asked is you not tell forum members to "Deal with It", etc? (how else is anyone supposed to interpret that other than short-handed for "shut-up"?) A representative of a company like Eidos should be more professional and respectful than to do things like that. There was never a negative comment explicitly directed at you, even though some posts in response to my arguments seemed extremely passionate (those turned out to all be by you, I had not even noticed). When you try to make a conversation all about you though, it becomes about you. You cannot take my word that you have misinterpreted me, but I must take yours after the things you've said? That's megalomania. I reached out to you TWICE on this forum (I had even forgotten it was you the first time, too!) and both times you rejected my desire for a tension-free thread. It's all documented here under this trite subject that somehow became personal to you. Good luck in life.

Okay, I've been civil and *very* patient with you. But that patience is running out now.

One more aggravating/insulting post like this and you're out of here. You've been warned.


@Chameleojack - Well, I interpret "deal with it" as a joke, as I bet many other members did as well xD And he isn't a representative of the company, he's a forum admin.

I don't know, man, but Driber has been nothing but civil and calm, he was just arguing your points in a friendly debate xD Maybe it's just me being here for 5 years that I get him, but seriously you're the one who's getting worked up, IMO. :)

I would chalk it up to you being a new member so you're not familiar with this community, but still, Driber was very calm and argued your points directly... You felt attacked, for some reason.

This.

Chameleojack
11th Aug 2014, 01:00
so long, then. Stop bullying people. It will haunt you.

a complete and utter blind assumption.

Second, if so - so what?

Deal with it.
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/187/5/9/tr9_lara_deal_with_it_meme_by_driber-d567nf1.gif

I would be more inclined to grant your request if the OP wasn't so incredibly cynical and biased, which I see as a transparent attempt at influencing the votes.

So TR is following a trend, big deal. I think it's kinda OTT to be so angry about it, and ridicule a game (of which you've barely seen anything) by applying the lowest common denominator cliché.
"big deal", "Over the Top", "cliche"...wish I still had my original opinion, bc it was not wrathful in any way. I was very uncomfortable being yelled at like this for being critical a video game.

The "lowest common denominator" I was referring to is embracing ubiquitous trends in preexisting media.
I confronted you about feeling bullied by your first post, and even tried to submit to your opinion that my analysis was inappropriate:


No good can ever come from telling fans of big developers, with concerns, to "DEAL WITH IT," though. The internet was invented to share information and opinions, not shut down debate with a sneer.
I hope you reconsider. I will remove my first post opinion entirely to appease you?
You know the deal with it is a meme, right? I wrote it in a humorous way, not as an attempt to shut down debate. By all means, please debate; that's the entire reason we have this forum in the first place :)

Also, please don't come on down me for sharing my opinion. That is kind of hypocritical...
I have not "come down" on anybody's position...? "you know the deal, right?"
It was not humorous, I felt marginalized right out the gate by the second response to my thread...from a mod. I did in fact (remove my original post to appease his sentiment). I implied the last game was melodramatic to a fault and that mindset was present in the new game's title and teaser. I also said it looked like an attempt to capitalize on Christopher Nolan's relevancy.


[QUOTE=Chameleojack;2029002]It's not too early, an "origin" or "transformation" story can have any title it wants, it's not limited to a "Rise of" prefix.quote]Okay so if instead of using "Rise of" the title had included something like "origin", "the birth of", "is born", "beginning" etc. then instead of you making a thread complaining about the cheesiness of "rise of" someone else would have made a thread complaining about the cheesiness and/or unoriginality of any of those other options.

It's impossible to always please everyone.
Apparently I'm not debating, I'm just "making a thread complaining".


Second, a game is not going to fail or success depending on its title. Don't make it seem more important than it is.
An order not to debate the importance of the thread's subject. My topic is not important. I never thought the game would "fail" for having a bad title...

If something can be improved, it should be. The fanboy approach of "LEAVE HER ALONE!!!" isn't going to make Brittany Spears, Miley Cyrus, or "good enough" (or even deceptive) games better. It just leads to stagnation. "It isn't important/It doesn't matter" is the worst argument a fan can make in defense of something they love. Big names will always have their hardcore fans, but bad marketting and labeling hurts brands (ask Nintendo). Titles can be important to the message you want to convey to potential consumers. I would just as soon advise against Anthony Weiner calling his autobiography "Anthony Weiner Rises"...if I were a fan.
(emphasis added) Huh, I'll be damned. I did come close to insinuating you were a fanboy. Wasn't intentional. I still hadn't realized most of the people I'd been quoting at this point were one person--you; I was just ascribing behaviors typical to one group to an argument type, not a person. Notice that I repeatedly and explicitly said "fan", not "fanboy" three times after whenever I referred to apologists, because I really wasn't trying to call anyone names.

Everything after that from you is very recent and even more abrasive. I hope you can see now the abrasiveness of your tone and will be more respectful.

d1n0_xD
11th Aug 2014, 01:05
^ How is telling stuff like "cliche" and "over the top" yelling? :eek: :scratch:

Driber
11th Aug 2014, 01:15
I tried. Goodbye, Jack.

Yes, I was abrasive at times. So were you. Even before this thread, to others.

Error96_
11th Aug 2014, 01:25
I think TR2 is the best game in the series and am really happy they didn't duplicate it's name for the new game as that would have been the worst. TR (2013) did seem to get all the way from a vulnerable girl to a Lara with pretty much all the capabilities of Lara from any of the other TR's by the end of it. This further evolution or 'rise' might be quite difficult to get across but I'm looking forward to seeing how they do it. If CD want to call it rise of the 'Tomb Raider' then think we need much bigger scale tombs in this game. In other things that were mentioned think AOD was a great title for that TR game as it really captures the vibe of it perfectly. I wouldn't say it was cheesy.

Tihocan
11th Aug 2014, 01:26
Aw, I didn't even get the chance to tell him to stay the heck out of the Vlad thread :(

/me runs

Tomb Raider: Mental As Anything


I knew immediately that Tomb Raider 2013 was a ripoff of x Resident Evil 4
#blink #blankstare


Okay so if instead ... the title had included something like ... "the birth of"
That would be quite a prequel...


People getting their legs blown off in the Middle East seldom cry about it
Holy... I just... wow.
Let's just compare Lara to a people that live in the harshest places on Earth, then demean her for not being as "tough" as they are.
At the risk of sounding personal, that's just sick.


Forth, did you just dis Bollywood movies?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/F9G0RJmm3KQ/hqdefault.jpg
:lol: Apu is not impressed.


Well, yeah, but...but Rise is about Lara accepting who she's become, so, yeah, it would be less tatty. And then in TR11 it would be an improvement again to shiny and new or tomb raider-y. :p.

Yeah! Then we can have a Tomb Raider: The Adventures of oh wait... Damn.


@pidipidi, you keep them eggs out of it :nut:
Now I'm hungry again.

Cristiavano
11th Aug 2014, 07:15
Tomb Raider: Rise of the Phoenix.

Tbh

chriss_99
11th Aug 2014, 07:48
CD can call the game whatever they like.
I wouldn't be bothered if the game was titled Tomb Raider: Apple Hunting.
As far as the game is good and meets my expectations I'm happy :)

BridgetFisher
11th Aug 2014, 08:54
This is a poll, I have no idea where it will show up in this post or the title and I typed it using a smartphone. Hope it's legible. TL;DR: should the title of the 2015 Tomb Raider game be changed--for whatever reason?

[REDACTED]

Anyway, love the teaser or not, and the MEANING of "Rise" in context notwithstanding, who thinks at least that the title should be changed?

*EDIT* I cant find the checkbox to add the poll...can a mod fix this by adding a "yes"/"no" poll?

She is The Tomb Raider like, The Batman. Guess they need to copy the whole dark knight rises kind of thing to be able to copy the "the" part of the naming of the batman series? Maybe that is a core audience their going for since Lara Croft is more of a crime fighter than an adventurer? Considering her goals and focuses arent going after treasure its more about getting bad guys and setting things right in the rebooted adventures of The Tomb Raider.

Tihocan
11th Aug 2014, 11:01
She is The Tomb Raider like, The Batman. Guess they need to copy the whole dark knight rises kind of thing to be able to copy the "the" part of the naming of the batman series? Maybe that is a core audience their going for since Lara Croft is more of a crime fighter than an adventurer? Considering her goals and focuses arent going after treasure its more about getting bad guys and setting things right in the rebooted adventures of The Tomb Raider.

What? Crime fighter? Where'd you get that from? Did I miss something guys?

I thought Lara's motives were more personal, getting away from civilisation to follow her hobby - and bad guys are just "in the way".

Metalrocks
11th Aug 2014, 11:02
well, he is banned. no point really in replying to his comments.

but would be good to know if its really a confirmed title. which i guess it is.

Driber
11th Aug 2014, 11:53
What? Crime fighter? Where'd you get that from? Did I miss something guys?

I thought Lara's motives were more personal, getting away from civilisation to follow her hobby - and bad guys are just "in the way".

This.

Lara is a 'crime fighter' no more than any other hero who sets out on a journey and happens to run into people who try to kill. I doubt that she'll ever purposely go on a mission to 'fight crime', unless the victims are people she knows, making it more of a personal rescue mission rather than a crime fighting mission.


well, he is banned. no point really in replying to his comments.

Just because the OP is banned doesn't mean the topic has to end. Feel free to discuss...


but would be good to know if its really a confirmed title. which i guess it is.

I guess you missed my reply to Rai earlier in the thread ;)

Rise is not a working title; "Tomb Raider 10" was :)

Metalrocks
11th Aug 2014, 13:04
oh, you got me me wrong there driber. i didnt mean that the topic has to be closed or no one should talk here anymore. just keep replying to his specific comments seems rather a waste of time since he is banned. thats all.

and yeah, im did miss that one. since so many of them were directed to the OP that i didnt really read every single comment.
so let me see if i understand it correctly: rise is not a fixed title, but at the moment its just TR10.

seriously, i feel so stupid lately that i cant understand anything anymore :mad2:

Rai
11th Aug 2014, 13:10
and yeah, im did miss that one. since so many of them were directed to the OP that i didnt really read every single comment.
so let me see if i understand it correctly: rise is not a fixed title, but at the moment its just TR10.

seriously, i feel so stupid lately that i cant understand anything anymore :mad2:
You've got it backwards. TR10 was the working title that wasn't fixed. Then Rise of the Tomb Raider was announced as the actual fixed title.

Metalrocks
11th Aug 2014, 13:27
You've got it backwards. TR10 was the working title that wasn't fixed. Then Rise of the Tomb Raider was announced as the actual fixed title.

like i said; lately im getting stupider. :rolleyes:
anyway, thanks for the clarification. now its clear.

pidipidi39
11th Aug 2014, 13:46
I tried. Goodbye, Jack.
I know this will sound very pointless and stupid, but... am I the only one who read the ''Goodbye, Jack'' with GlaDos' voice?

*hides*


@pidipidi, you keep them eggs out of it :nut:
Lol, ok :p


oh, you got me me wrong there driber. i didnt mean that the topic has to be closed or no one should talk here anymore. just keep replying to his specific comments seems rather a waste of time since he is banned. thats all.
I actually understand your point but - while I agree that replying directly to Chameleojack would be (probably) pointless - I don't see why people can't keep on discussing about his points, if they want to. :)

Metalrocks
11th Aug 2014, 14:13
I know this will sound very pointless and stupid, but... am I the only one who read the ''Goodbye, Jack'' with GlaDos' voice?

*hides*



now when you put it this way... :)
"you evil, evil person. so, just go."

not sure what the exact words were at the end. have to play the game again, busy with others at the moment.




I actually understand your point but - while I agree that replying directly to Chameleojack would be (probably) pointless - I don't see why people can't keep on discussing about his points, if they want to. :)

you got a point too. i guess i was just thinking when you quote someone, you kind of expect a reply from that person later on. thats why i saw this rather as a waste of time.

Valenka
11th Aug 2014, 17:19
Dear Jesus, what the hell happened in here?

pidipidi39
11th Aug 2014, 17:29
Dear Jesus, what the hell happened in here?
You. Saw. Nothing.

jmxgdj_maxresdefault.jpg

ARaider
11th Aug 2014, 20:20
Dear Jesus, what the hell happened in here?
I think world war 3 just happend.:p

Valenka
11th Aug 2014, 22:30
I have never seen so much negative energy in one thread before. I'm so glad that it's over. :p

Anyway, I do think that they could have had something a little more gripping than Rise of the Tomb Raider. :whistle:

Murphdawg1
11th Aug 2014, 22:59
What? Crime fighter? Where'd you get that from? Did I miss something guys?

I thought Lara's motives were more personal, getting away from civilisation to follow her hobby - and bad guys are just "in the way".

Didn't you know? Lara is the new Batgirl:cool:

Driber
11th Aug 2014, 23:35
I have never seen so much negative energy in one thread before.

Are you suffering from amnesia, or did pidipidi39's neuralizer image actually had some effect? :D

We've had waaaaaaay worse threads than these, Mason :p

Murphdawg1
11th Aug 2014, 23:45
Are you suffering from amnesia, or did pidipidi39's neuralizer image actually had some effect? :D

LMAO:lol:

_Love2Raid_
13th Aug 2014, 02:58
Yeah, it should be changed to 'Fall of the Tomb Raider'. :rolleyes:

Murphdawg1
13th Aug 2014, 03:01
More like "We sold our souls to Microsoft and our fans down the river"

Tihocan
13th Aug 2014, 03:31
Lara Croft: Tomb Resident :lol:

ARaider
13th Aug 2014, 03:52
Game:The rise of the Microsoft raiders
And if they make a book: Microsoft raiders: How to destroy hearts and fandom in 15 minutes
Movie: Tomb Raider: The rise of Microsoft that destroyed all souls.
Comic: Tomh Raider: Trapped into darkness of Microsoft. Lol I already have ideas for the comic.
Lara has to deal with the greatest evil ever.... A company called Microsoft. They destroyed souls of good people. In her journey Lara discovers that there is another company called crystal dynamics. CD wants something that Microsoft says they can offer them. CD and Microsoft work together as they become: The Tomb Raider Assassin’s. Lara must destroy Microsoft and their evil artifact called: The Xbox to free CD from the evil force. Can Lara destroy Microsoft and The Xbox? She needs to fight with the great ugliness of the xbox...
And no offense to CD. Still love you guys, but Microsoft on the other hand... :p

NightRain'06
14th Aug 2014, 04:37
Well, at E3 the title in the trailer did not have an annotation stating "Working Title" anywhere in there. So, no. I doubt SE / CD will change the title.

Although, to be honest, when I first read the title, it felt a bit odd because last year's TR was already Lara's new origin story.

But, after marinating it in my mind for a while, it does make sense I suppose since this title cements what she will become.

Or, in other words, the upcoming game is not a re-do of last year's TR, but an obvious continuation. At least that's how I view the title now.

Metalrocks
14th Aug 2014, 04:58
the fall of the rising of the tomb raider.

NightRain'06
14th Aug 2014, 05:00
the fall of the rising of the tomb raider.

: Revengeance. :D :lol: