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Assassin-Agent47
20th Jul 2014, 06:10
First of all I want to say I am a huge Hitman fan and I have played all the Hitman games. Hitman Blood Money (HBM) was without a doubt my favorite Hitman game of all time. Hitman Absolution (HA) on the other hand did other things right like the movement, the aiming mechanics and definitely the gunfight. It felt much more fluid compare to past Hitman games. But the main thing that Absolution screws up was the replayability factor that HBM has due to its smaller sandbox level design and also, the disguise system in HA took away the social stealth element from the past Hitman games which take the fun out from exploring the sandbox as you are consistently going from cover to cover.
Now in my thread I want to talk about implementing a memory program where NPC can actually remember your face and I will also illustrate how it will roughly look like when it is applied on the game. Apart from that, I will also talk about the disguise system and the various NPC disguise groups that can be used on Hitman 6.There are other threads that talk about this topics but I want to comment on this separately as suggestions will be lost from older threads.


Memory Program
In every Hitman game, every single NPC is program with a line of vision (distances) and a field of vision (wideness). Now the difference I want to suggest when implementing the memory program is adding another type of vision and that is the memory vision. Now take note, this memory vision is not the same as the other 2 visions, it is separately on its own. And one of its major difference is that it is not as long or wide as the line/field of vision, it is way much more shorter. What this vision does is that when players are within the range of the NPC's memory vision, the NPC will remember 47's face. But (I repeat, but), that doesn't mean they will remember your face throughout the entire level. To give a better picture, let me give a scenario:

1. The player happen to be within the memory vision range of a security guard NPC (walking close by to the guard). This means, that NPC have seen 47's face and he will remember his face but only for a period of time (maybe 20 to 25 seconds).

2. Just like in HA when you activate a C4 explosive (fight night), there will be a circular timer counting down. This timer can be put on top the NPC to indicate to players who have previously saw him/her and the duration of how long the NPC will remember you. If you happen to come back within the NPC memory vision range while the timer is still running, the timer will automatically reset itself to the max again. However, the timer won't reset if you are within his line/field of vision.

3. Apart from that, if you change your disguise and you are within the sight of that NPC who have previously saw you, his suspicion meter will increase slightly more faster than usual.

4. Once the timer runs out, that NPC will have forgotten your face already and you won't be caught even if you have change disguise. But if you are wearing the same type of disguise as him, he can suspect you but I will talk about that later.

Do take note, the NPC can permanently remember your face if you choose to do something suspicious like crawling near him, talking your weapon out, standing too close to him for too long or banging into him consistently like HA. I won't include running as that will become too restrictive already. As long as you don't do those things, you are safe.


Suggestions for disguise system:
On other threads, some have suggested of reverting back to the old Hitman disguise system while some suggest that instead of using instinct to blend in, 47 is presented with 4 options and only 1 or 2 options is correct. Choosing the correct option will fool the suspecting NPC while choosing the wrong one will only alert the NPC further till he blows your cover.
I personally feel that Hitman 6 disguise should have a blend of both the past Hitman games (mainly HBM) and HA as HBM disguise system make it way too easy for the players to explore until it does not pose as a challenge whereas for HA, it just become way too annoying. A right mixture of both disguise systems will make it challenging and also easy for players to explore the sandbox without much worry of getting their cover blown. So what I suggest is to categories various NPCs disguises into 4 groups; unarmed NPCs, armed NPCs, personal bodyguards and VIPs.

Unarmed NPCs and their AI response (1st group)

Unarmed NPCs refers to various disguises like the plumber, electrician, hotel/casino staff, mechanic, etc. Now, for the AI of these particular NPCs, they won’t be able to see through your disguise from a distance but rather, if you are close by to them (within their memory vision), their suspicion meter will increase slowly and they will try to stop you by talking to you.
Here’s a given scenario:

1. 47 alerts a hotel staff in the employee break room and he tries to stop 47. This doesn’t mean you are spotted already like what you see in Absolution where you instantly minus 3200 points instantly (please remove the point system). Instead, it is like HBM suspicion meter at the ‘yellow’ color now where the guards will began to scratching their chins.

2. At this moment, you have 2 options available to do. You can choose any option first.

First option:
Move away quickly (but you cannot run as that will instantly raise his suspicion) and get out of his sight. The NPC will definitely try to follow you while still calling you out. If you successfully evaded the suspecting NPC, he will resume back to his scripted program but now he is alerted and that NPC now is temporary program to 'permanently' remember your face which means changing disguise won't work anymore. The next time he happens to see you again while still wearing the hotel staff disguise, he will try to catch you but now, using the first option will no longer work. Instead, he will alert the guards nearby of his suspicion. However, you can still get out of the situation even if you are caught wearing the hotel staff disguise and that’s using the second option method. But this method won’t work if you are caught wearing another disguise.

Second option (Advisable to do first):
47 will be able to talk out of the situation easily. This is something that should be implemented in Hitman 6 as if you guys have read the 2 Hitman books ‘Hitman: Enemy Within’ and ‘Hitman Damnation’, 47 is able to act out of his character to fool and manipulate people with convincing lies to assume other people’s identity or tricking them for an easy kill move. Like in Hitman: Enemy Within, 47 is able to imitate as a womanizing bike member and in Hitman Damnation, he was able to act like a harmless party goer and fool the guard to have his back turn from 47 which 47 quickly use the opportunity to strangle him. This is something that us players should be able do rather than having to press ‘Ctrl’ to use Instinct which runs out after a while, and that doesn’t make sense at all. 47 is a train professional who have a deep understanding in human behavior. So he will be able to trick and deceive others. This is an ability of 47 that we should have that still haven’t been developed. Hopefully IO you are seeing this.
In terms of the control, maybe the user have to press ‘E’ to interact (for pc) with the suspecting NPC and a scripted program where 47 will response will play out. However, this scripted program should not be a cut scene, but rather, it will show 47 turning his head or shifting his body slightly to face the direction of the NPC he’s going to interact with so that it doesn’t take the player away from the flow of the game with an unnecessary cut scene. The user only has to press the ‘E’ button once in order to fool the suspecting ‘unarmed NPC’.

4. If you have successfully fool the NPC, that NPC will no longer be a potential witness and he will not bother you or suspect you when you come close to him anymore. This will address the issue in HA where even after you fool the NPC, he will still suspect you again when he sees you. Apart from that, if this NPC happens to be nearby other suspecting NPCs of the same disguise, he will be able to sell the lie for you and that means you don’t even have to fool them because the NPC will be doing it for you. This is something like HA eyewitness system where if this NPC knows your identity and tell other NPCs, it will spread out like a virus until everyone knows your identity. It’s the same concept except now, it works in your favor and it can only be spread by the word of mouth.

However, this idea of NPC fooling other NPCs for you will only work if you happen to be nearby a group of NPCs of the same disguise and one of the NPC has already been previously fool by you.


Armed NPCs and their AI response (2nd group)


Armed NPCs refers to disguises like police officers, security guards (hotel, casino, etc.), gang members or any armed employee within a security compound. The AI of these NPCs should be much more alerted compare to the ‘unarmed NPCs’ group. Meaning, unlike the pervious group where they will only be alerted when you stand too close to them, this ‘armed NPCs’ group can be alerted in many other ways (3 ways to be exact). Also, their suspicion meter will also increase slightly faster compare to the unarmed NPCs but not until like the one in HA.

First way: Standing in their line of sight for too long (Similar to past Hitman games & HA)
It is the same as standing too close to the ‘unarmed NPC’ and drawing their suspicion or like past Hitman disguise system. The only difference is that the ‘armed NPC’ line/field of vision is longer than the unarmed NPCs (memory vision are the same for all NPCs categories). If you stay at the same spot for too long, the suspecting armed NPC will slowly walk towards you while the suspicion meter slowly increases. If you still have not get out of the suspecting NPC’s sight, he will then call out for you and he will try to stop you. At this moment, you have only one option presented unlike the ‘unarmed NPCs’ case where you have 2 options.
Option: 47 will be able to talk out of the situation
This is the same method regarding the ‘unarmed NPC’ case. The only difference is that unlike the user having to press the ‘E’ keystroke to conveniently talk his way out of the situation, the user now has 3 statements to choose from. Given scenario:

1. 47 alerts another armed NPC nearby and he calls out for him.

2. User is unable to run or walk away as that will cause the suspecting NPC to draw out his weapon. Instead, the user has to hold the ‘E’ keystroke like in HBM and 3 options (cover-up statements) are presented to choose from. The user can use the cursor to scroll up and down or use the ‘up’ & ‘down’ keystrokes to navigate and choose the options. It’s the same as when we hold the ‘E’ keystroke to select various objects clutter at one spot in HBM.

3. Only one statement will fool the NPC completely and choosing the correct choice means the NPC will be fooled and he will no longer bother you. Also the NPC will help to fool other suspecting NPCs for you. In order to choose the correct statement, players have to listen to the various conversations among the NPCs and some of these conversations will indicate you the correct choice to choose. This is to ensure the choices are not random lucky pick. Of course, after playing back the level again you will definitely know which option is right and sooner or later, players will just instantly click the correct option whenever they are being suspected. No method is perfect.

4. The other statement in the choice will only partially fool the armed NPC to leave you alone for a time period. Now during that time period, that NPC will not suspect you or bother you even if are close by to him. But once the time period is over and that particular NPC happen to see you again, you are now only given 2 options to choose from. So, it is 50-50 chance whether you will choose the right decision or not.

5. If you happen to choose the wrong option, that will alert the NPC even further and in this case, you have one more one option left and that’s to fool the NPC partially (you will just have to press the [not hold] ‘E’ keystroke) to have his guard down like the case in Hitman Damnation. At this point, you have a small window of opportunity to either knock him out (but that means he’s a witness if you don’t kill him after the entire level), kill the suspecting NPC quickly & quietly (apply the quick neck snap on all NPC rather than just on a target when 47 holds the target hostage) or if the NPC’s suspicion has drawn other armed NPC nearby, you can quickly take the NPC as a hostage and kill off any other alerted NPCs. If you however didn’t seize the small window of opportunity, the NPC will then draw his weapon and like in HA, you can fake surrender and take him out.

Second way: Wander aimlessly without a patrol path
Apart from standing in their sight for too long, wandering aimlessly without a patrol path will also alert the NPCs. For this case, patrolling armed NPCs will be the one that will be more alerted by your presence. Those armed NPCs station at fixed location like maybe the guard quarters will not be a trouble to you not unless you stand in their sight for too long. If you happen to draw the patrol guard suspicion, the situation will play out the same way. 47 can talk his way out or if not, you can knock the NPC out or you can silence him.

Third way: Running or crawling in their sight
This will obviously trigger the suspicion of the armed NPCs like in all Hitman games. If you run in front of the guards’ eyes, your cover can be blown very quickly (except for HBM). So the best thing is to calmly walk away from the NPC until you are out of his sight. If you alert his suspicion, the same scenario plays out.


Personal bodyguards and their AI response (3rd group)

Personal bodyguards is a separate category from armed NPCs as they are usually presented in Hitman games guarding a specific target (VIPs) like in the mission ‘House of Cards’ in HBM, the Sheik only has 10 personal bodyguards including the bodyguards guarding the scientist. So, it is impossible for this group not to recognize each other especially since their numbers are very little. In other words, this particular NPCs AI will be able to see through your disguise no matter what if you are wearing their personal bodyguard attire. You won’t be able to talk yourself out of the situation. Your best chance is to remain out of their sight or if not, distract them. But their disguise can still be used to fool other NPCs to gain access to various restricted areas depending on the mission.
Furthermore, this NPC group are able to permanently remember VIPs faces they are protecting whether is it you dress in the VIP disguise or the VIP NPC himself.


VIPs (4th group)

Now the VIPs group is the crucial one as in my view as it can open the game to more ideas. This group refers to a few NPCs only mainly the targets and NPCs who relates to the target like guest of the target or an unknown individual who is supposed to meet the target at the vicinity on that day. It can also relate to a target (both who have not meet each other before) who is supposed to meet another target on that day itself like in HC mission 3 ‘The Bjarkhov Bomb’. In other words, this VIPs outfits will allow you to get close to your target and access to restricted areas. Now using the concept of the memory program, this VIPs outfit can only be used if the other target or the guards assign to that target with the courtesy of the other target has not seen the previous person. To give a better picture, I will use the ‘House of Cards’ level concept in HBM as an example but with various changes like the NPCs movement:

1. In the ‘House of Cards’ level, there are 3 targets; Hendrik Schmutz the DNA provider, the scientist Tariq Abdul Lateef and Sheik Mohammad Bin Faisal Al-Khalifa. Now in HBM, Hendrik Schmutz is already in the casino while Tariq Abdul Lateef the scientist will be the first to arrive on the limo then the Sheik will arrive later. You won’t be able to wear the scientist disguise in HBM but here’s the change I want to make, let say you can wear the scientist outfit if you want to.

2. Now if you guys have played the game, you know that the scientist will take the lift on the left to the 8th floor where he will be station there for the rest of the time. At the 8th floor, there will also be a guard outside the lift who will escort the scientist to his room. Now, here’s another change. Let’s say the guards are assign by the Sheik to protect the scientist and the guards have never met the scientist before. The only way they will be able to recognize him is by his payment briefcase. The same way how the Sheik’s personal bodyguards recognize Hendrik Schmutz by the DNA briefcase and if you recall, you don’t need to wear Hendrik Schmutz attire to access the restricted area where the Sheik is. You only just need the briefcase.

3. So, getting back to point. If you kill the scientist in the lift, hide his body and manage to take his briefcase instead. The guard station at the 8th floor outside the lift will instantly think that you are Tariq Abdul Lateef and he will instead escort you to the room. And now, you have full access to the room while still wearing your suit. However, this will only work if you manage to kill off the scientist before any of the other bodyguards see him. If the bodyguard at the lift happen to see the scientist before, you will have to kill him as well to ensure that the attire is full proof or else, the guards will be able to see through the disguise even if you are wearing the scientist attire as they remember by the face not the disguise.

As an additional note, if the bodyguards see you wearing an different attire that belongs to the ‘unarmed NPCs’ (hotel staff attire) or ‘armed NPCs’ (security guard attire) group, they will instantly know you are a fraud as like I mention earlier about the 3rd group, they are program to instantly permanently remember the VIPs face (that's you).

But on another note, if you happen to change from your custom suit to the scientist attire or vice versa, the bodyguards assign to ‘you’ won’t exactly suspect you and put you at gun point because your suit attire can also be blended into a VIP disguise just like the scientist attire. In other words, 47’s personal suit can also be used and belong under VIPs disguise group rather than just being a custom wear for the start of the mission. Furthermore, this is a excellent way to further expand the “Well Played” challenge (name of the challenge in Personal Contract-mission 1 in HA) playthrough in HA where players cannot subdue or kill non-targets (Optional: Suit Only). In short, the player came in, killed his targets and left the world untouched. For reference, look at ‘prenatual’ YouTube account playthrough of HA to get a better idea.

With this implementation of 47’s suit being able to use as a VIP attire, it will allow players to play in that “Well Played” challenge manner in a social stealth way like HBM rather than the constant cover base stealth system in HA. And maybe for players who actually did play out and succeed the “Well Played” challenge, they will be awarded with something after the entire mission like maybe a bonus additional pay, unlock new weapons like in H2SA & HC for achieving SA ranking, etc. This will further encourage players to accept and play the “Well Played” challenge. This is something that you guys in IO can actually play around with it. It doesn’t have to be just a briefcase; it can also be a name tag or an invitation card that 47 can take from the target or an exclusive party guest invited by the target.

4. Now back to the ‘House of Cards’ mission, how the deal will go down is that Hendrik Schmutz will bring the DNA briefcase to Sheik Mohammad and the Sheik will tell him that payment will arrive shortly after the DNA has been verified by his scientist. The other guard in the room with the Sheik will then go up to take the payment briefcase from the scientist then only later will he take the DNA briefcase up for verification. So, let’s change that. Let’s say the guard will take the DNA briefcase up first to the room instead and if you successfully assume the scientist identity, you can sabotage the entire deal. So let me play out another scenario for you:

A. The guard comes in with the DNA briefcase for ‘you’ the scientist to check. A short played cut scene like the one you see in ‘Till Death Do Us Apart’ when you dress as the priest will play out.

B. 47 will supposedly be checking the briefcase to see whether the goods are authentic. At this point, players are given an option to choose whether to frame Hendrik Schmutz or verify the goods are alright.

C. If you choose to verify the goods are alright, the guard will take down the payment briefcase and hand it over to Hendrik Schmutz. And of course, if you have plant the bomb (RU-AP mine from HBM – bring it back for Hitman 6), you can instantly kill both the Sheik and Hendrik Schmutz together at the same time. But this will ruin your ‘Silent Assassin’ rating if you choose to do this manner and you will also lose the bonus payout if you have left the mission with the payment briefcase.

D. So, if you decide to frame Hendrik Schmutz for selling fake goods instead, it will result in the deal going south and ultimately Hendrik Schmutz will be killed by the Sheik’s bodyguards to protect the Sheik just like the case in HA during the ‘Chinese New Year’ section in level 5 where the police officer shoot one of your targets in self-defense.

E. Now after killing Hendrik Schmutz, obviously the Sheik won’t be staying by as he won’t want to be associated to murder. So, he will take off with his bodyguards to his limo. So, now let’s make another change to the level but in terms of the map design. Let’s say there is a place where the target’s limo will be parked and that there is also a place for the players to snipe the Sheik when he tries escape with his limo.

F. When he reaches there, you can instantly snipe him down from that spot but it will alert the bodyguards.

G. The other option is to arm a bomb (RU-AP mine) on his limo like the case for H2SA and HC where you can arm bombs in the target’s vehicle. So when the Sheik arrives and enter his limo to make a run for it, you can instantly blow the vehicle and kill him off along with his bodyguards which will definitely take away your ‘Silent Assassin’ rating.

Now, just by amending part of the map, the disguise system, the NPC’s AI and putting a memory program, I was able to add in 3 more different ways to kill the target in the list which makes it 13 ways to kill your targets in just one mission. (I associate the methods by different vicinity where you can kill the target without getting caught and not just the type of kill like strangling Hendrik Schmutz in the toilet and the lift is consider 2 different ways)

Furthermore, this is just applying the new disguise system and AI back onto a previously created map in HBM just so to give a better picture. Imagine if you apply it on a newly created map where your imagination is not limited and you can create more variety and completely different scenarios like some of you guys have brilliantly have suggested amazing ideas like the amusement park, stadium, airport or even the concept art shown in Central Europe. If IO is able to do the disguise system and AI properly especially on the VIPs disguise, there is more variety and different kills to be created and best of all, this type of kill are professional where it frames someone else for the murder like the one in ‘Curtains Down’ in HBM.

Also, this concept doesn't just have to be applied on the targets. If the sandbox level is as large as IO said it is, you can put in other NPC activities that is occurring in the sandbox that has no relation to the targets. For example, there's a mission in a exclusive club where the targets only goes to areas like his hotel room, pub, gym, swimming pool, billiard room and the lobby. But in the level design, there is also a banquet hall for people to organize their weddings and that can be a good place to add in a large amount of NPC activities where the VIP disguise system can be used (dress as the wedding photographer (VIP) & let's say the bride have previously slept with the 'best man', you can plant the photo for the groom to see and a nice little scene can play out where something will happen) and that can also be a good place for players to target NPCs for their 'Contracts'.

And that’s not even discussing on other aspect like the dynamic hand-to-hand combats, whether to put point shooting in, whether to use fast-paced kill from HA or the slow-paced kill from HBM and more importantly, various other multiplayer ideas that can be added in.

Conclusion
So this is the end of my thread and do write in on what you guys think. I do want to thank those of you for taking your time to read the entire thread as I know it is freaking long but I want to be very detail on it. To IO if you are reading this, do feel free to reply on the forum as that is what we Hitman fans want from you guys, to respond to our suggestions, to know that you are acknowledging and reading our various ideas that we are suggesting to you. We just want to be able to help to make the Hitman game a game that we ourselves will be able to enjoy and play for many years.

kewlak
20th Jul 2014, 10:33
It's very detailed and realistic. I like it, but i wonder if ordinary player would like to learn all these policies. I especially like idea about NPC's memory and manipulating by conversation.

Assassin-Agent47
20th Jul 2014, 12:36
Thanks. I agree it is a lot to take in especially even for Hitman veteran players. Maybe if IO ever decides to implement a concept something like this, they can set a tutorial for this like the 'Personal Contract' mission in HA or the 'Death of a Showman' tutorial mission where it force player to do certain things so that the player can learn the new mechanics. But that's provided if IO really does it.

mcescher1
20th Jul 2014, 18:33
i like the idea of the memory vision - makes sense

and i really like the idea for the interaction - we have suggested an option like this before... not as detailed ;) this could also be the answer for replacing instinct (this is most definitely the path i would take)

setting off the armed npc's needs some work... just standing still should not set an npc off... nor should walking aimlessly... you would have npc's running after you at seemingly random times and could be a big annoyance when you are only trying to enjoy the game, also running should only set npc's off when there is a high alert or something... i like running a lot in the game because it allows me to move around the level at a quicker pace (more like a 47 jog :) )

the personal bodyguard response seems legit

there shouldn't be an "autodetection" if you change outfits... that was one of the problems with absolution - they need to simplify the detection system not make it more confusing than it was in HA

I definitely agree they should bring back the RUAP mine... one of the best weapons 47 had...

about the house of cards level.. i think the reason the sheik never left his spot in the casino was to add a challenge to it... in most levels you can place a mine in a convenient location and easily get rid of a target.. i think this level was purposely made a bit more challenging. it made you make the phone call and use the rifle as walking up to him was almost impossible - one of my favorite levels btw

good ideas "assassin-agent47" let's hope IO knows what to do with them

Assassin-Agent47
21st Jul 2014, 01:13
i like the idea of the memory vision - makes sense

and i really like the idea for the interaction - we have suggested an option like this before... not as detailed ;) this could also be the answer for replacing instinct (this is most definitely the path i would take)

setting off the armed npc's needs some work... just standing still should not set an npc off... nor should walking aimlessly... you would have npc's running after you at seemingly random times and could be a big annoyance when you are only trying to enjoy the game, also running should only set npc's off when there is a high alert or something... i like running a lot in the game because it allows me to move around the level at a quicker pace (more like a 47 jog :) )

the personal bodyguard response seems legit

there shouldn't be an "autodetection" if you change outfits... that was one of the problems with absolution - they need to simplify the detection system not make it more confusing than it was in HA

I definitely agree they should bring back the RUAP mine... one of the best weapons 47 had...

about the house of cards level.. i think the reason the sheik never left his spot in the casino was to add a challenge to it... in most levels you can place a mine in a convenient location and easily get rid of a target.. i think this level was purposely made a bit more challenging. it made you make the phone call and use the rifle as walking up to him was almost impossible - one of my favorite levels btw

good ideas "assassin-agent47" let's hope IO knows what to do with them


I like your feedback man, it was thorough. But not to be defensive or anything, I disagree to some part of your feedback. Regarding what you say about "just standing still should not set an NPC off", I think you misunderstood my point. The armed NPC won't exactly be able to suspect you that quickly. Like in HBM, I time how long it takes another NPC of the same disguise to suspect you and if I was correct, it was 1 minute. So maybe for Hitman 6, armed NPCs will be able to suspect you if you stand in their sight for 1 minute just like HBM. Btw, I think majority of players won't even stay at one spot for that long.

Also, about the "walking aimlessly" alerting armed NPCs, I think it is legit. You may think it is creepy and weird of me but in my housing unit, I'm aware of the guards' patrol patterns and even the time (11:00 am) when they will go and do their patrols. Furthermore, I know which part of the route they will take first (2nd floor car park) and end off (back gate). Furthermore, if there is any changes to their daily routine, they will be brief by the housing estate manager in the morning. So, imagine if I suddenly put another random guard that is crossing by your patrol path which you have never seen before and no one has notify you about this change, you will definitely find something odd. This was way I was coming from when I thought of the idea.
But I agree the running part may be pushing if too far. Maybe that part should be remove.

About the "autodetection when you change outfits", I not sure what you are referring to. If you were referring to the 'personal bodyguards' group being able to see through you when you wear their disguise or another disguise, than just to clarify, its not instantly they can autodetect you when you are within their line of vision. Its more like the suspicion meter is going up but much faster compare to the unarmed & armed NPCs group. (maybe 30 seconds) And when they do see through your disguise, you can't talk your way out of it. But do take note, I mention in my thread that this 'personal bodyguard' NPCs are program to only permanently remember the VIPs face only. In other words, the VIP outfit is useless if the guards have previously seen the VIPs face. Other than that, you are pretty much safe even if you change into a staff or a security outfit (not at the same time of course - memory vision).

Apart from that, your feedback good. Is nice to see others providing constructive feedbacks. I really hope IO get Hitman 6 right.

AdrianShephard
21st Jul 2014, 04:05
Good ideas for the most part. As a note to you beforehand, I consider Hitman: SA to have the best disguise/suspicion system and find BM to be incredibly lenient and easy. I'll go through systematically of what I think:

Memory Program
Great idea that has been suggested on the forum before but never articulated well/thoroughly. My only concern, and this is very personal, is the "timer" on NPCs' heads; it seems a little arcadish. Perhaps IO could add in another thing on the HUD to give you an idea of if your face is being remembered or not. Maybe we can have 2 bars, one that oscillates like in SA to signify suspicion and another one like in BM that slowly goes up and down to signify memory. Or we could have the drums from C:47/SA come back to signify when a person is getting suspicious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy0T8nmw5GQ). God, I love how the music was used in the first 3 Hitman games (especially the music that plays when you've successfully killed your target). IO could also go back to the warning/info alerts that were present in the original games.

Disguises:
Unarmed/Armed NPCs

This section holds my biggest gripe with what you suggested. The player selecting some choices of dialogue to fool another NPC might be alright for one or two instances in a level (I think C:47 did something like this a few times) but not to every single NPC. I think it's fine if you do it to a bartender or someone to let you pass through to a VIP area but not to a regular Joe. The question becomes: how do you limit this "fast talking"? From how you describe it, it sounds like it is incredibly (bear with me) overpowered. If you do limit it, then it's like Instinct all over again. But this is just a little problem with it. You could argue that this breaks immersion, that it would make Hitman into a mini-RPG, that the lines 47 says will get repetitive and be as stupid as him just rubbing his head, that it would confirm 47 as being foreign if he doesn't have a particular accent ("Hidden Valley" comes to mind), etc. Like I said, it's an okay idea for 1 or 2 NPC's in a level (like a gate guard or a bartender) but not for everyone. Just think about it: what would 47's response be if a guard asked him why he is standing around?

I think a better idea would be for the guard to walk up to you and ask "are you lost?" which would be your cue to walk away. SA was very brutal because guards immediately shot you when they got suspicious instead of walking up to you and giving you one last warning/cue. BM solved this problem somewhat with the NPCs giving audible cues that they are about to shoot/tell the guards; the only problem was that in non-restricted areas, you could practically dance around a guy and be fine. The best solution would be a blend of SA and BM, specifically the suspicion/disguise system of SA but with the warnings of BM.

I agree that running/standing still should increase the suspicion meter (as it did in SA). But I wouldn't go as far to alert guards because you aren't following the patrol paths. What happens if you don't know what specific paths the guards are taking because you didn't sit there studying them? If you are going to study the paths, you are going to be standing still and standing still alerts people... This idea could work in some places (large open areas) but in others, it would just fall flat (tight quarter areas such as "Tubeway Torpedo").

The Rest:

Everything else is golden.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it would alright if 47 automatically responded to a suspicious NPC when he is caught somewhere he shouldn't be. This wouldn't fool the NPC necessarily, but it would make the game a bit more realistic. For example, if you are caught snooping in a restricted area in, say, a hotel while you are still in your suit, 47 can automatically respond to the question "what are you doing here?" with "looking for the restrooms" (or something similar) to which the guard would point you in the right direction. This could be IO's way of allowing you a screw up without alerting the entire place as when you were caught in the older Hitman games, everybody would chase you down and question you.

EDIT #2: Perhaps IO could play around with the idea of superiority/hierarchy. If you are dressed as a squad leader, 47's automatic response to a regular foot soldier might be authoritative and would easily fool him. This wouldn't work with people who have the same disguise as you or someone higher than you though (and it wouldn't work with personal bodyguards).

Assassin-Agent47
21st Jul 2014, 05:16
Good ideas for the most part. As a note to you beforehand, I consider Hitman: SA to have the best disguise/suspicion system and find BM to be incredibly lenient and easy. I'll go through systematically of what I think:

Memory Program
Great idea that has been suggested on the forum before but never articulated well/thoroughly. My only concern, and this is very personal, is the "timer" on NPCs' heads; it seems a little arcadish. Perhaps IO could add in another thing on the HUD to give you an idea of if your face is being remembered or not. Maybe we can have 2 bars, one that oscillates like in SA to signify suspicion and another one like in BM that slowly goes up and down to signify memory. Or we could have the drums from C:47/SA come back to signify when a person is getting suspicious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy0T8nmw5GQ). God, I love how the music was used in the first 3 Hitman games (especially the music that plays when you've successfully killed your target). IO could also go back to the warning/info alerts that were present in the original games.

Disguises:
Unarmed/Armed NPCs

This section holds my biggest gripe with what you suggested. The player selecting some choices of dialogue to fool another NPC might be alright for one or two instances in a level (I think C:47 did something like this a few times) but not to every single NPC. I think it's fine if you do it to a bartender or someone to let you pass through to a VIP area but not to a regular Joe. The question becomes: how do you limit this "fast talking"? From how you describe it, it sounds like it is incredibly (bear with me) overpowered. If you do limit it, then it's like Instinct all over again. But this is just a little problem with it. You could argue that this breaks immersion, that it would make Hitman into a mini-RPG, that the lines 47 says will get repetitive and be as stupid as him just rubbing his head, that it would confirm 47 as being foreign if he doesn't have a particular accent ("Hidden Valley" comes to mind), etc. Like I said, it's an okay idea for 1 or 2 NPC's in a level (like a gate guard or a bartender) but not for everyone. Just think about it: what would 47's response be if a guard asked him why he is standing around?

I think a better idea would be for the guard to walk up to you and ask "are you lost?" which would be your cue to walk away. SA was very brutal because guards immediately shot you when they got suspicious instead of walking up to you and giving you one last warning/cue. BM solved this problem somewhat with the NPCs giving audible cues that they are about to shoot/tell the guards; the only problem was that in non-restricted areas, you could practically dance around a guy and be fine. The best solution would be a blend of SA and BM, specifically the suspicion/disguise system of SA but with the warnings of BM.

I agree that running/standing still should increase the suspicion meter (as it did in SA). But I wouldn't go as far to alert guards because you aren't following the patrol paths. What happens if you don't know what specific paths the guards are taking because you didn't sit there studying them? If you are going to study the paths, you are going to be standing still and standing still alerts people... This idea could work in some places (large open areas) but in others, it would just fall flat (tight quarter areas such as "Tubeway Torpedo").

The Rest:

Everything else is golden.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it would alright if 47 automatically responded to a suspicious NPC when he is caught somewhere he shouldn't be. This wouldn't fool the NPC necessarily, but it would make the game a bit more realistic. For example, if you are caught snooping in a restricted area in, say, a hotel while you are still in your suit, 47 can automatically respond to the question "what are you doing here?" with "looking for the restrooms" (or something similar) to which the guard would point you in the right direction. This could be IO's way of allowing you a screw up without alerting the entire place as when you were caught in the older Hitman games, everybody would chase you down and question you.

EDIT #2: Perhaps IO could play around with the idea of superiority/hierarchy. If you are dressed as a squad leader, 47's automatic response to a regular foot soldier might be authoritative and would easily fool him. This wouldn't work with people who have the same disguise as you or someone higher than you though (and it would work with personal bodyguards).

Really love your feedback, you actually address areas that even I myself felt could still do more improvements. I address my views systematically regarding the various areas you mention:

Memory Program
It honestly didn't came to me that the timer might be 'arcadish'. What I had in mind was to make it easier for players to identify which NPC have seen them previously as everything is there for players to see. To me, that's better than having the players to waste their time by going to the map to see the different icon for NPCs who remember your face. I like your idea of having adding another bar to your HUD system for the memory of the NPC. But my only concern is that how the players will know/pinpoint which NPC has remember your face? Do they have to look at the map to see the different icon for NPCs who remember your face? Other than that, your suggestions was good.

Disguises: Unarmed/Armed NPCs
I agree that method of '47 being able to talk out of the situation' is overpowered. That I can't deny it. But the idea was making it easier for players without punishing them too much like Absolution did.
Improvement for disguise (these 2 groups):
Maybe for improvement, IO can do it in a way where in some levels, certain NPCs are program to be much more alerted than the rest like a hotel manager will definitely know a new staff when he sees one or a security guard/hotel staff who has work in the area for many years. So, given a scenario where if 47 takes a security uniform, not all security NPCs will be that alert as I previously mention in my initial idea. But now, only a selected few NPCs will be alerted by your presence. That will give more freedom for players to move.

Regarding about the patrol paths, I'm sorry but I will stick to my idea still as I mention to mcescher1 on the same thread, let me quote from the previous message:

"Also, about the "walking aimlessly" alerting armed NPCs, I think it is legit. You may think it is creepy and weird of me but in my housing unit, I'm aware of the guards' patrol patterns and even the time (11:00 am) when they will go out to do their patrols. Furthermore, I know which part of the route they will take first (2nd floor car park) and end off (back gate). Also, if there is any changes to their daily routine, they will be brief by the housing estate manager in the morning. So, imagine if I suddenly put another random guard that is crossing by your patrol path which you have never seen before and no one has notify you about this change, you will definitely find something odd."

About studying the patrols, I don't think it will be a issue. Yes I agree you will have to stand still to notice their patterns and study them. But they won't exactly be alerted by you when you stand still wearing your suit or another disguise. They will only be alerted if you are standing still wearing their uniform. Whereas for studying their patterns in restricted areas, the player will have obtain an outfit like maybe a hotel staff to access the area so that they can study the security guard patrol. You don't just have to wear the security attire to access such areas.

Apart from those I mention, the rest of your ideas were solid especially the EDIT #2 idea regarding disguise having a authority position and only a NPC of same or if not higher authority will be able to see through your disguise. Its something like the hotel manager or a long time staff being able to be more alert to your presence. Really appreciate the time and effort you took to read and come out with your own suggestions.

AdrianShephard
21st Jul 2014, 05:59
Yes, making specific NPCs more suspicious than the rest would work. A good example is the woman in the suit from the Blackwater Park hotel lobby (Absolution). Of course, the player should be able to easily distinguish who is more suspicious than the rest of the guards/personnel.

Regarding the patrol paths, I think what another poster mentioned in a different thread applies here. He talked about a "dynamic disguise system" where the AI changes based on where you are. If you are in a top-secret military facility or a mansion under lockdown, then yes, I think patrol paths do matter. But if we are playing a mission like the ones in St. Petersburg (SA), where we have large open areas, then I think patrol paths breakdown a bit.

You see, the problem I have with it is this: If the "correct" patrol path leads you towards a guard who can see through your disguise, then you will deviate from the path to avoid him. But doing that would also draw attention since you aren't on the correct path. Whenever I hear any ideas about the disguise/suspicion system, I mentally play through the "Tubeway Torpedo" mission in my head with the given idea since that is extremely close quarters. That being said, I don't see how the patrol paths idea would work when you aren't given a lot of room to maneuver and your suspicion meter is already high. Of course, this is assuming that we are keeping the SA disguise system where getting too close to someone gets you shot.

BTW: A typo in what I wrote in my EDIT #2. I meant to say that personal bodyguards wouldn't be fooled by your disguise instead of would.

Assassin-Agent47
21st Jul 2014, 07:03
Yes, making specific NPCs more suspicious than the rest would work. A good example is the woman in the suit from the Blackwater Park hotel lobby (Absolution). Of course, the player should be able to easily distinguish who is more suspicious than the rest of the guards/personnel.

Regarding the patrol paths, I think what another poster mentioned in a different thread applies here. He talked about a "dynamic disguise system" where the AI changes based on where you are. If you are in a top-secret military facility or a mansion under lockdown, then yes, I think patrol paths do matter. But if we are playing a mission like the ones in St. Petersburg (SA), where we have large open areas, then I think patrol paths breakdown a bit.

You see, the problem I have with it is this: If the "correct" patrol path leads you towards a guard who can see through your disguise, then you will deviate from the path to avoid him. But doing that would also draw attention since you aren't on the correct path. Whenever I hear any ideas about the disguise/suspicion system, I mentally play through the "Tubeway Torpedo" mission in my head with the given idea since that is extremely close quarters. That being said, I don't see how the patrol paths idea would work when you aren't given a lot of room to maneuver and your suspicion meter is already high. Of course, this is assuming that we are keeping the SA disguise system where getting too close to someone gets you shot.

BTW: A typo in what I wrote in my EDIT #2. I meant to say that personal bodyguards wouldn't be fooled by your disguise instead of would.

The example you give was really good, it really brings the point across and I have to say, that scenario you give a patrol path colliding into another guard address a crucial problem that I overlook. I think the best way is to actually applied patrol paths specially for selected missons where it will be mire appropriate like the level you suggested. Another way is to put patrol paths at selected areas of the map rather than being scattered everyday. This way, players are able to explore the sandbox freely and if they do happen to bump into a patrol guard, players can always restart or reload from their previous save game (HBM save concept) and now, they know which area to avoid. After all, Hitman games are done and played in a way where players are meant to learn from their mistake.

AdrianShephard
21st Jul 2014, 07:13
Putting NPC sensitive patrol paths in specific areas of a level is definitely a great idea. It would really create some atmosphere.

gkkiller
21st Jul 2014, 12:41
I like all your ideas, but like Adrian Shephard said, the timer does seem kind of weird. Instead, perhaps you could have suspicion arcs, Absolution style, which slowly expand or reduce in size appropriately? Using audio cues is also a great idea. Like a pounding heartbeat effect that gets louder as the person becomes more suspicious.

Assassin-Agent47
21st Jul 2014, 14:08
I like all your ideas, but like Adrian Shephard said, the timer does seem kind of weird. Instead, perhaps you could have suspicion arcs, Absolution style, which slowly expand or reduce in size appropriately? Using audio cues is also a great idea. Like a pounding heartbeat effect that gets louder as the person becomes more suspicious.

The arc arrow in HA will not work as the idea behind the timer was meant to indicate players which NPC have remember your face and it is also meant to show the time period of how long the NPC will remember your face (memory vision and the memory program). The arc concept is more suitable only for a suspicion meter. The pounding heart beat effect is a good idea for a suspicion indicator like HA when the NPC is close by. But with regards for the memory program, it doesn't suit it as it doesn't indicate which NPC remember you nor does it tell you the time period of how long before the NPC forgets you. Just providing a constructive feedback to your suggestions.

mcescher1
21st Jul 2014, 21:58
About studying the patrols, I don't think it will be a issue. Yes I agree you will have to stand still to notice their patterns and study them. But they won't exactly be alerted by you when you stand still wearing your suit or another disguise. They will only be alerted if you are standing still wearing their uniform. Whereas for studying their patterns in restricted areas, the player will have obtain an outfit like maybe a hotel staff to access the area so that they can study the security guard patrol. You don't just have to wear the security attire to access such areas.


What about in general areas like break rooms, or bathrooms, or bathroom hallways??

this could be mediated by applying the "bluff button", where if you are wearing the same getup as the patrolling npcs it just takes a "bluff" to get them off your back, maybe it works 80% of the time... like a yea i'm the new guy, getting used to my route, or just hitting the bathroom, or i got a call from over here. . . and the 20% of the time it doesn't work, 47 has to react quickly kill or k.o. the enemy and dispose or just ditch the body and move on quickly

generally, i don't "study" patrols... i look for an opening and i take it, moving from room to room to room, unless i am hiding in plain sight, then i walk to wherever i need to go without worry

thinking about this face memorization a little bit... i think it will discourage wearing several outfits across the level and this could be taking away from the entertainment a little... i enjoy being a "chameleon" and wearing a few different outfits throughout a mission. . . enemies remembering my face may add a interesting challenge that might actually boost the entertainment level

its tough to know :o

Assassin-Agent47
22nd Jul 2014, 01:03
What about in general areas like break rooms, or bathrooms, or bathroom hallways??

this could be mediated by applying the "bluff button", where if you are wearing the same getup as the patrolling npcs it just takes a "bluff" to get them off your back, maybe it works 80% of the time... like a yea i'm the new guy, getting used to my route, or just hitting the bathroom, or i got a call from over here. . . and the 20% of the time it doesn't work, 47 has to react quickly kill or k.o. the enemy and dispose or just ditch the body and move on quickly

generally, i don't "study" patrols... i look for an opening and i take it, moving from room to room to room, unless i am hiding in plain sight, then i walk to wherever i need to go without worry

thinking about this face memorization a little bit... i think it will discourage wearing several outfits across the level and this could be taking away from the entertainment a little... i enjoy being a "chameleon" and wearing a few different outfits throughout a mission. . . enemies remembering my face may add a interesting challenge that might actually boost the entertainment level

its tough to know :o

I get you may worry about the face memorization restricting players to wear different outfits which is why I stated in my thread that NPCs will only temporary remember (30 seconds only) your face as long as you don't do anything suspicious like crawling in the NPCs memory vision or taking your weapon out. And by the time you find another different disguise, the 30 seconds time period will have already run out. So, it's not going to be a hindrance to players at all. Furthermore, in another post with Adrian Shepherd, I tweak the the unarmed/armed NPCs group disguise system where there is now a authority disguise like a hotel manager, chief security officer or for Adrian Shepherd example, a swat leader disguise. This authority disguise are NPCs who are program to be more alerted by your presence whereas for the ordinary staff or officers, they won't constantly be breathing down your neck whenever they see you. Even if they do suspect you like maybe a pstroling guard, you can just press 'E' to fool him easily.

As an additional improvement, maybe instead of displaying the 3 statements to choose from for the armed NPCs group, it can be tone down to just 1 statement like the unarmed NPCs. But, using the bluff tactic on the armed NPCs will only fool them for a while unlike the unarmed NPCs where it will fool them completely. If you keep using the same bluff tactic on the same suspecting armed NPC, it will no longer work. (Maybe at most it will work 4 times only) This is to balance the game or else the 'bluff'/'talking way out tactic' is too overpowered.

mcescher1
22nd Jul 2014, 03:33
having a "bluff" button would be good... it would allow 47 to get out of some sticky situations and could also possibly be used to get him into certain restricted areas or parts of levels

it would take away the complication of having to build entire scenarios for which sentence a player might select... having a default bluff button would just have a certain percent rate of success.. and maybe with a little voice over work could be seamless - some bluffs (planned into the game - but not always necessary) would create cut scenes like the coat check in "curtains down"

normally i think the bluff button should work 90% of the time or even 95... until maybe some alerts have been raised then the percentiles drop a little... maybe after guards have had their suspicions raised due to finding a dead body or spotting blood or having a witness that saw you pull out a gun - the percent of the bluffs working drops depending on severity

it would be interesting as well, they could throw in some unlockables through using a bluff on certain people at certain levels - like a secret obtainable weapon - or a secret obtainable pathway or sniper location - or a secret gambling spot where 47 gets to sit down a play a mini game of poker or chess - i like having mini games within games... how hard would it be to add a chess minigame where by winning you unlock a special weapon or weapon skin - then every time you beat the level the difficulty goes up - i love challenges like this, adds to the realism a little bit and entertainment and replay value - lets see it IO!!!!

after thinking about it a little more... you could add a dual purpose to the button. . a bluff/ interaction button. . . sometimes there would be a possibility to interact with certain ai's on different levels that could lead to some intel or possibly side missions - but there would be no reaction from 90% of the ai's and every once in a while an interaction could be very damaging and lead to you being killed very quickly and easily... this would make sure that people weren't just going up to everyone blindly pressing the interation button... it would have to make sense to talk to that person or to bluff them for the action to have an effect - i wonder if this could fit in a game like hitman - to me it sounds interesting and like it could add to the games evolution

FootFetish4Life
22nd Jul 2014, 03:57
having a "bluff" button would be good... it would allow 47 to get out of some sticky situations and could also possibly be used to get him into certain restricted areas or parts of levels

The bluff button was the head scratch thing from Absolution. I'll reiterate that Absolution had a lot of good ideas, they were just badly executed. I'm really surprised you brought that up.

Assassin-Agent47
22nd Jul 2014, 03:59
having a "bluff" button would be good... it would allow 47 to get out of some sticky situations and could also possibly be used to get him into certain restricted areas or parts of levels

it would take away the complication of having to build entire scenarios for which sentence a player might select... having a default bluff button would just have a certain percent rate of success.. and maybe with a little voice over work could be seamless - some bluffs (planned into the game - but not always necessary) would create cut scenes like the coat check in "curtains down"

normally i think the bluff button should work 90% of the time or even 95... until maybe some alerts have been raised then the percentiles drop a little... maybe after guards have had their suspicions raised due to finding a dead body or spotting blood or having a witness that saw you pull out a gun - the percent of the bluffs working drops depending on severity

it would be interesting as well, they could throw in some unlockables through using a bluff on certain people at certain levels - like a secret obtainable weapon - or a secret obtainable pathway or sniper location - or a secret gambling spot where 47 gets to sit down a play a mini game of poker or chess - i like having mini games within games... how hard would it be to add a chess minigame where by winning you unlock a special weapon or weapon skin - then every time you beat the level the difficulty goes up - i love challenges like this, adds to the realism a little bit and entertainment and replay value - lets see it IO!!!!

Really like the idea of a mini game in the sandbox where you can obtain special weapons or skins design. Its something like H2SA and HC where if you obtain SA rank after the entire mission, you will obtain a bonus weapon. But, regarding the whole percentage thing, I think it's not a safe idea cause if the player happens to be on the unlucky 10% like you said, he/she won't be able to control the situation. I know the percentage is small but, it's better to have a mechanic where players have a guarantee control of the situation and not where its left by random chance as in the long run, it may become extremely frustrating for players especially those who wants to play the game in a stealth manner. I think it will be better if the bluff tactic can only be use on armed NPCs several times (4 times) while unarmed NPCs only need to be fool once and they will no longer bother you. This way, players will be able to have full control of managing the situation while also balancing out the game to ensure it won't become too easy for players. I just hope IO is actually really reading the forums.

AdrianShephard
22nd Jul 2014, 04:04
I also want the unlockable weapons for achieving Silent Assassin like in the previous games.

Assassin-Agent47
22nd Jul 2014, 04:17
The bluff button was the head scratch thing from Absolution. I'll reiterate that Absolution had a lot of good ideas, they were just badly executed. I'm really surprised you brought that up.

Dude, the bluff button we are talking about is not the 'Instinct' feature from HA, it is a completely separate thing. It's involving 47 being able to talk out of the situation and depending on which disguise group it belongs to, it can either trick the NPC completely like those from the unarmed NPC group. Whereas for armed NPCs, they won't be completely fool by you but rather, they won't bother you for a period of time even if you stand close by to them. It's a feature that allow players to handle and control the situation rather than 'Instinct' where it can actually run out. The idea is to allow players to be able to use 47's conversational skills like seen in the Hitman Enemy Within and Hitman Damnation. Please read the thread and the discussions first.

mcescher1
22nd Jul 2014, 04:54
Really like the idea of a mini game in the sandbox where you can obtain special weapons or skins design. Its something like H2SA and HC where if you obtain SA rank after the entire mission, you will obtain a bonus weapon. But, regarding the whole percentage thing, I think it's not a safe idea cause if the player happens to be on the unlucky 10% like you said, he/she won't be able to control the situation. I know the percentage is small but, it's better to have a mechanic where players have a guarantee control of the situation and not where its left by random chance as in the long run, it may become extremely frustrating for players especially those who wants to play the game in a stealth manner. I think it will be better if the bluff tactic can only be use on armed NPCs several times (4 times) while unarmed NPCs only need to be fool once and they will no longer bother you. This way, players will be able to have full control of managing the situation while also balancing out the game to ensure it won't become too easy for players. I just hope IO is actually really reading the forums.

ohhhh see i really like the idea of sometimes the bluff going wrong... but rarely... it forces us as players to react and improvise and control the situation.. the exact feeling an assassin like 47 would be dealing with constantly :naughty: sometimes it would be possible to control the situation and move on other times it would ruin a mission... and sometimes it would cause a little damage control maybe ruin an outfit and force you to switch to a less effective one - very exciting for me :)

also, it wouldn't hurt a player who is going full stealth... because if they are going full stealth they won't be utilizing the bluff / interaction button

Assassin-Agent47
22nd Jul 2014, 05:43
ohhhh see i really like the idea of sometimes the bluff going wrong... but rarely... it forces us as players to react and improvise and control the situation.. the exact feeling an assassin like 47 would be dealing with constantly :naughty: sometimes it would be possible to control the situation and move on other times it would ruin a mission... and sometimes it would cause a little damage control maybe ruin an outfit and force you to switch to a less effective one - very exciting for me :)

also, it wouldn't hurt a player who is going full stealth... because if they are going full stealth they won't be utilizing the bluff / interaction button

I see your point but in my view, I would still prefer to be able the control the situation rather than leaving it to chance. I agree it wouldn't affect players who are going full stealth (Suit Only like the VIP concept) as they won't utilize the bluff mechanic feature. But the thing is, many players like the idea of being able to wear a disguise and blend in with other NPCs with ease.

mcescher1
23rd Jul 2014, 01:13
I see your point but in my view, I would still prefer to be able the control the situation rather than leaving it to chance. I agree it wouldn't affect players who are going full stealth (Suit Only like the VIP concept) as they won't utilize the bluff mechanic feature. But the thing is, many players like the idea of being able to wear a disguise and blend in with other NPCs with ease.

you are contradicting yourself here tho', also you have to think that when you are bluffing you are taking on a certain amount of risk... something that isn't always going to work. this doesn't stop players from trying to be stealthy. . if you choose to not kill anyone ... dont. sneak around until you reach your target and boom there you go.. stealth. if you don't get a perfect rating because of a blown bluff try the level again! maybe without needing to bluff! the bluff button should only be needed if you are in a sticky situation,ie found in a restricted area without the correct credentials or trying to convince your way into a certain area.. these aren't stealthy options these are options when you have failed being completely stealthy and need to do damage control or trying to be slick. to get a disguise you normally have to kill someone, if the guards are alerted and you end up needing to bluff.. there should be a chance you will fail at bluffing as you took a risk by killing someone for that outfit and dumping their body or not dumping their body. if this person calls your bluff and puts you on blast either control the situation then and there (if you can), run away hide and eventually find or maneuver a different disguise, or quit/retry. easy. :cool:

Assassin-Agent47
23rd Jul 2014, 06:26
you are contradicting yourself here tho', also you have to think that when you are bluffing you are taking on a certain amount of risk... something that isn't always going to work. this doesn't stop players from trying to be stealthy. . if you choose to not kill anyone ... dont. sneak around until you reach your target and boom there you go.. stealth. if you don't get a perfect rating because of a blown bluff try the level again! maybe without needing to bluff! the bluff button should only be needed if you are in a sticky situation,ie found in a restricted area without the correct credentials or trying to convince your way into a certain area.. these aren't stealthy options these are options when you have failed being completely stealthy and need to do damage control or trying to be slick. to get a disguise you normally have to kill someone, if the guards are alerted and you end up needing to bluff.. there should be a chance you will fail at bluffing as you took a risk by killing someone for that outfit and dumping their body or not dumping their body. if this person calls your bluff and puts you on blast either control the situation then and there (if you can), run away hide and eventually find or maneuver a different disguise, or quit/retry. easy. :cool:

Alright I think you misunderstood my idea of the 'bluff'/'47 talking of the situation' mechanic. The idea behind it was meant to be use for stealth gameplay as it is meant to be a stealth mechanic. Meaning, even if you are caught in restricted area, that doesn't mean your SA ranking is gone like HA where your points are minus instantly for being spotted. Instead now, you can control the situation by fooling the NPC so that he won't be able to see through your disguise. If you successfully done that, the NPC will not have 'spotted' you but maybe instead he will escort you out if you wearing your suit or if you are in disguise, he will just leave you alone. It's supposed to address the issue in HA where players are punish too much for their mistakes. It's meant to be like HBM where if you are caught in restricted areas, that doesn't mean you are spotted and your SA rank is gone. Furthermore, in HBM and HA, there are disguises scattered at various locations which mean, you don't even need to kill or subdue a NPC to get their disguise.

It's not that I don't like your idea man, but if the 'bluff'/'47 talking out of the situation' mechanic is use only as a case where you failed being stealthy, then players are forced to play the game in a cover based stealth gameplay again like HA if they want to get their SA rank instead of the social stealth gameplay like the past Hitman games.
My idea of stealth gameplay is not where 47 is sneaking around consistently just to get to his target and kill him, that was the concept done for HA which was horrible in my view. My idea of pure stealth gameplay is where 47 can get to his target in his suit without touching the environment (Well played challenge in the Personal Contract mission in HA) and still be able to play in a social stealth gameplay by using his conversational skills to fool suspecting NPCs. That's why I introduce the idea of VIP disguise where 47's suit can be used as a VIP attire to gain access to more locations like the restricted areas where you normally cannot go. And how 47 can turn his suit into a VIP attire is either by killing the VIP target subduing the VIP guest, etc and assume his role or fooling the guards in the restricted areas or guarding the restricted areas to make them believe you are the VIP so that they will grant you access to the restricted areas (that's where the 'bluff'/'47 talking out of the situation' mechanic also comes to handy). But of course, that's provided if the guards have not seen the previous VIP NPC's face (memory program). I mention all of this on my first post. If the 'bluff' mechanic is used in the manner which you speak, that means you can only use it when you wear other NPCs disguises as you mention 'there should be a chance you will fail at bluffing as you took a risk by killing someone for that outfit and dumping their body or not dumping their body'. In other words, the whole VIP disguise concept won't even be able to work then if it's done in that manner.

Anyway, not everyone will agree to each other's ideas.

mcescher1
23rd Jul 2014, 15:12
Alright I think you misunderstood my idea of the 'bluff'/'47 talking of the situation' mechanic. The idea behind it was meant to be use for stealth gameplay as it is meant to be a stealth mechanic. Meaning, even if you are caught in restricted area, that doesn't mean your SA ranking is gone like HA where your points are minus instantly for being spotted.

i don't think you understand how investigations work. Your smooth talking may work at the time but in the aftermath 47 may or may not be identified as a suspicious character who was near the murders. this should most definitely effect your rating at least... doesn't have to effect your points but your rating should change for sure.. you are no longer "silent"... how or why should you be labeled a "silent assassin"??


That's why I introduce the idea of VIP disguise where 47's suit can be used as a VIP attire to gain access to more locations like the restricted areas where you normally cannot go. And how 47 can turn his suit into a VIP attire is either by killing the VIP target subduing the VIP guest, etc and assume his role or fooling the guards in the restricted areas or guarding the restricted areas to make them believe you are the VIP so that they will grant you access to the restricted areas (that's where the 'bluff'/'47 talking out of the situation' mechanic also comes to handy). But of course, that's provided if the guards have not seen the previous VIP NPC's face (memory program).

i think i understand what you are talking about... i think... but this scenario of having a VIP isn't always going to be applicable... i don't think they have vip's in a police station or a jail or a train yard. there simply are places where no one but "so and so" are allowed to be. what you are talking about isn't a bluff button but a "god mode"... if the situation isn't bluffable then it shouldn't work... you need credentials and security cards... if you are somewhere you are not supposed to be (in any disguise suit or not) you need an excuse - they could either believe you and let you alone or believe you and escort you out.. or not believe you and attempt to subdue you. thats it. doesn't matter if you are VIP or not... you aren't allowed to be fooling around in the utility box of a 5th floor museum if you get my meaning. unless you have a "bluff" of course (with a percentage of working depending on how risky what you are doing is ;) ).




I mention all of this on my first post. If the 'bluff' mechanic is used in the manner which you speak, that means you can only use it when you wear other NPCs disguises as you mention 'there should be a chance you will fail at bluffing as you took a risk by killing someone for that outfit and dumping their body or not dumping their body'.

there is no reason you wouldn't be able to use the bluff/interaction while you are in your suit. but i was thinking that normally you aren't allowed into a lot of places with just your suit...doesn't matter what you tell someone. for example: "oh hey just got lost looking for the bathroom what is this highly secret science lab all about in here?" if you try something like this while still in your suit with no credentials at all you are getting shot... but if you try it in a janitors outfit you might get away with it "just cleaning the floors" and for the most part you will need another outfit if you plan on interacting with npc's (aka social stealth).

Assassin-Agent47
23rd Jul 2014, 16:41
i don't think you understand how investigations work. Your smooth talking may work at the time but in the aftermath 47 may or may not be identified as a suspicious character who was near the murders. this should most definitely effect your rating at least... doesn't have to effect your points but your rating should change for sure.. you are no longer "silent"... how or why should you be labeled a "silent assassin"??

i think i understand what you are talking about... i think... but this scenario of having a VIP isn't always going to be applicable... i don't think they have vip's in a police station or a jail or a train yard. there simply are places where no one but "so and so" are allowed to be. what you are talking about isn't a bluff button but a "god mode"... if the situation isn't bluffable then it shouldn't work... you need credentials and security cards... if you are somewhere you are not supposed to be (in any disguise suit or not) you need an excuse - they could either believe you and let you alone or believe you and escort you out.. or not believe you and attempt to subdue you. thats it. doesn't matter if you are VIP or not... you aren't allowed to be fooling around in the utility box of a 5th floor museum if you get my meaning. unless you have a "bluff" of course (with a percentage of working depending on how risky what you are doing is ;) ).

there is no reason you wouldn't be able to use the bluff/interaction while you are in your suit. but i was thinking that normally you aren't allowed into a lot of places with just your suit...doesn't matter what you tell someone. for example: "oh hey just got lost looking for the bathroom what is this highly secret science lab all about in here?" if you try something like this while still in your suit with no credentials at all you are getting shot... but if you try it in a janitors outfit you might get away with it "just cleaning the floors" and for the most part you will need another outfit if you plan on interacting with npc's (aka social stealth).

Turning your suit into a VIP disguise doesn't gives you a god mode. In fact, you are just as vulnerable as ever still, you can't do anything suspcious like taking your weapon out, sneaking around, messing with fuse box, etc as that will blow your identity still. And furthermore, when you manage to assume the identity of the VIP NPC, it doesn't mean you have access to all areas in the sandbox. It will grant access to players to certain restricted areas while other restricted areas, players can either use distraction and cover mechanics to access if they want to leave the environment untouched. If not, they can always wear the NPCs disguises scatter at various locations in the map.I get the fact that not all maps will be able to implement a VIP disguise as it will be quite hard although the suggested maps you give are actually very easy to put a VIP like for the jail, a attorney coming to met his client and for the police station, a schedule journalist who is coming down to do an interview the police sergeant. The train yard on the other hand I can't think one but on the other note, why would a mission be built there? There isn't much disguise or activity to build there. Anyway, for those areas where the VIP system doesn't work, that's why I place the 47's talking mechanic, to allow players to still play in the social stealth gameplay if they still want to rather than going the cover base stealth way.

You really have good ideas on improving the talking mechanic but I think you are trying too much to push the realism into the game like the idea of real investigations. Not everyone in the real world will know such things like how would a security guard working in a hotel or a office know such things? But the main point is remember, it's the programming in the game that will try to create the realism. The ideas I suggested and explain in details are meant to push some form of realism while also making it achievable like the memory vision. Its definitely possible to program a memory vision especially since they already know how to program the NPCs line and field of vision.
And now, taking your idea of the percentage chance of a bluff being able to work, IO will then have to put a randomizer program (I use this program once for a app game I make in school) to generate a random outcome whenever the player decides to use the bluff. Now, even though you mention that the chance is 80-20, remember, this program can generate any outcome and you be surprise how many times it can actually occur not in your favour. That's why if I were to look at your idea in a programming way where the bluff success is base on a percentage chance to push that form of realism where your smooth talking won't always work, it will be risky and if IO don't program properly, it can turn into a disaster. My idea is meant to be simplified so that it can be easily program into the game like all the fixed case scenarios where if this disguise group suspect you, what can be done to contain it and how it would play out. Of course, that's provided if IO is actually really seeing the forums.

Anyway man, like I said before, not everyone will agree to each other's idea concept. So I don't see any point we trying to push our suggestion to one another. My hope is that IO is reading the ideas on the forums and will use it to improve Hitman 6. But so far, I have yet to see IO community staff to acknowledge people's ideas on the forums.

mcescher1
23rd Jul 2014, 17:53
the train yard was an actual level in absolution... remember when you were walking through the cave like tunnels and then crossed the bridge?? might not have technically been a train yard but it was very similar.

as far as the investigations go... what i was mentioning wasn't necessarily effecting the gameplay at all.. it just has an effect on your rating and also possibly (if IO decides they want to bring back the newspaper or something to the effect of it) an effect on what is talked about it the newspaper. "A witness say they saw a conspicuous person near the [target] right before his death with a bald head and a unique tattoo." this is the consequence of using your "bluff" button.

the percentage thing i think is the only way to do it... having 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 definite bluffs in your back pocket, to me, is silly... and wouldn't really make sense in a lot of situations... what i am proposing with the percentage bluffs/interactions is that it doesn't work in every situation just as it would be in reality. but if there is a no alerts your percentage is high.. ok i don't know the sweet spot of percentage of it working because this would take some fiddling with development maybe its 95.75 work percentage or maybe a 98.2 idk.. but the fact that it could go wrong makes it a little exciting and keeps your on your toes...

you are right though, this is all pipe dreams.. i can almost guarantee you very little of the ideas we talk about on here are considered by IO seriously, but it's still fun to talk about and think about... and it would be awesome if we did somehow influence the game with our back and forth banter...

AdrianShephard
23rd Jul 2014, 19:43
It's supposed to address the issue in HA where players are punish too much for their mistakes. It's meant to be like HBM where if you are caught in restricted areas, that doesn't mean you are spotted and your SA rank is gone. Furthermore, in HBM and HA, there are disguises scattered at various locations which mean, you don't even need to kill or subdue a NPC to get their disguise.

My idea of stealth gameplay is not where 47 is sneaking around consistently just to get to his target and kill him, that was the concept done for HA which was horrible in my view. My idea of pure stealth gameplay is where 47 can get to his target in his suit without touching the environment (Well played challenge in the Personal Contract mission in HA) and still be able to play in a social stealth gameplay by using his conversational skills to fool suspecting NPCs.

:thumb:

That's something that pissed me off in Absolution. To get maximum points, you had to play the game like Splinter Cell. You couldn't really use disguises unless they were provided to you which is complete BS. Another reason why the point system is bad...

The immediate deduction of points when "spotted" in a restricted area was also frustrating. Blood Money had it right where you wouldn't lose your rating if spotted.

And I agree with Assassin-Agent47's perspective on the "bluff" percentage thing. While I'm still hesitant on the overall idea, I will agree that leaving something critical like that up to chance will be more frustrating than fun. If your bluff doesn't work and you're surrounded by baddies, what do you do then? It sounds to me like players would constantly be reloading their games every 10 seconds.

With regards to what mcescher1 said about investigations only affecting the rating and not gameplay...in a game like Hitman, I would venture to guess that a good amount of people play the game to get the Silent Assassin rating on every level. To get that rating, players have to play a specific way. So rating and gameplay are actually connected. Think of the fan backlash if a failed bluff immediately removed your Silent Assassin rating even if the guards wouldn't be alerted on your level. It would definitely piss me off and would encourage the cover-to-cover based play. Just look at Absolution. It's not necessary to play it cover-to-cover but to get the best rating, you're going to have to use it more than a few times.

FootFetish4Life
24th Jul 2014, 00:26
:thumb:

in a game like Hitman, I would venture to guess that a good amount of people play the game to get the Silent Assassin rating on every level. To get that rating, players have to play a specific way. So rating and gameplay are actually connected. Think of the fan backlash if a failed bluff immediately removed your Silent Assassin rating even if the guards wouldn't be alerted on your level. It would definitely piss me off and would encourage the cover-to-cover based play.

I actually prefer playing Hitman normally, without worrying too much about Silent Assassin. The Silent Assassin rating kills the immersion for me because you're moving like a video game character, not like an assassin. I'll complete the SA achievement just to complete the game and pat myself on the back but I don't think trying to get SA is the definitive way to play Hitman. I prefer the style of coasting along and murdering random people every once in a while who get in my way. When trying to get SA, I find myself running a lot for some reason. It's tiring just to watch. I hope that in H6 they develop the Silent Assassin gameplay a little better. For example, in The Meat King's Party, in Fat Bastard's lounge room there's a red button on the wall that brings down the curtain that enables you to kill him without being seen. The problem is your totally visible by the guards and the dominatrix's when you push it. Made absolutely no sense to me. I hope they iron out such details in H6 because, while SA isn't my preferred way of playing I do like the challenge it provides. I just wish it was more realistic.

Assassin-Agent47
24th Jul 2014, 01:34
the train yard was an actual level in absolution... remember when you were walking through the cave like tunnels and then crossed the bridge?? might not have technically been a train yard but it was very similar.

as far as the investigations go... what i was mentioning wasn't necessarily effecting the gameplay at all.. it just has an effect on your rating and also possibly (if IO decides they want to bring back the newspaper or something to the effect of it) an effect on what is talked about it the newspaper. "A witness say they saw a conspicuous person near the [target] right before his death with a bald head and a unique tattoo." this is the consequence of using your "bluff" button.

the percentage thing i think is the only way to do it... having 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 definite bluffs in your back pocket, to me, is silly... and wouldn't really make sense in a lot of situations... what i am proposing with the percentage bluffs/interactions is that it doesn't work in every situation just as it would be in reality. but if there is a no alerts your percentage is high.. ok i don't know the sweet spot of percentage of it working because this would take some fiddling with development maybe its 95.75 work percentage or maybe a 98.2 idk.. but the fact that it could go wrong makes it a little exciting and keeps your on your toes...

you are right though, this is all pipe dreams.. i can almost guarantee you very little of the ideas we talk about on here are considered by IO seriously, but it's still fun to talk about and think about... and it would be awesome if we did somehow influence the game with our back and forth banter...

About the consequences of the bluff button, I thought that is more appropriate with regards of the memory vision where if you do something suspicious within the NPC's memory range, the NPC will permanently remember you and he is also a witness. If you don't kill him after the entire mission, that NPC will then voice out his suspicion of a bald man behaving very abnormal on the newspaper. (Hope they really being it back for Hitman 6) That will guarantee take your SA rating away If that happens. About the percentage thing, I still prefer a guarantee bluff than leaving it to chance. But that's up to IO to develop. It would be awesome if IO did take ideas on the forums. After all, I think the next time we hear a major Hitman 6 news update is next year. So there's still time to improve the game and develop new ideas. Hopefully this time they will release a Hitman 6 demo where we can experiment the game first.

mcescher1
24th Jul 2014, 01:49
last time we got hitman: sniper challenge which was the best thing to come out of h:a, the only problem was it was nothing like the actual game. but yea maybe it would be cool if they released like a one level demo on easy a few months before hand this time. it would possibly give them enough time to get some feedback and fix some bugs before the official release :D

FootFetish4Life
24th Jul 2014, 03:03
Just finished reading this monstrous post. I have to say, I liked pretty much every thing you suggested. However, a few things:

Memory system: I mentioned my own idea about this earlier, only with a permanent face memory system. Say you're spotted by a hotel lobby attendant wearing a painter's uniform, then he spots you again later as a security officer. I kinda take an issue with NPC's forgetting your face in that regard. Granted, this kind of system has never even been seen in Hitman before, I mentioned something about this earlier to the effect of once an NPC sees you in a disguise you need avoid him for the entire level if you change disguises. There should be a visual cue above the NPC or something less obtrusive like a button activated (not to bring up Instinct again) system that displays NPC's that will blow your cover (because in Hitman NPC's generally all look the same and I don't think that's gonna change any time soon). I think a lot of what your suggesting may be lost as players choose to avoid NPC's altogether due to all the work involved. I can see it work if there were a lot of situations where you are forced into contact with an NPC, but with the overview map, Instinct or whatever NPC detection system they choose to employ, not to mention hiding spots and such, I think it may just be a little too much to handle. Also, they would have to develop an entire script of phrases for every NPC as well as 47. Not to mention all the dialogue between NPC's and clues you'll have to look for as you pointed out. It will just turn the game from Hitman into Sherlock Chameleon.

This was a very long and detailed post. Don't get wrong, I like your ideas. I could see something like this working. I just think it's expecting a little too much.

RoboCop
24th Jul 2014, 04:18
I mentioned my own idea about this earlier, only with a permanent face memory system.

You did...? You only have ten posts...none of which talk about a memory system...

S3rgio or whatever did say something about the memory system a long time ago, though...

hmm...

i think adrian sheperd was right...:D

:lmao:

FootFetish4Life
24th Jul 2014, 04:30
You did...? You only have ten posts...none of which talk about a memory system...

S3rgio or whatever did say something about the memory system a long time ago, though...

hmm...

i think adrian sheperd was right...:D

:lmao:

I mentioned it on HITMAN | FORUMS. I'm afraid I've never heard of this S3rg!O that you speak of.

Assassin-Agent47
24th Jul 2014, 04:34
Just finished reading this monstrous post. I have to say, I liked pretty much every thing you suggested. However, a few things:

Memory system: I mentioned my own idea about this earlier, only with a permanent face memory system. Say you're spotted by a hotel lobby attendant wearing a painter's uniform, then he spots you again later as a security officer. I kinda take an issue with NPC's forgetting your face in that regard. Granted, this kind of system has never even been seen in Hitman before, I mentioned something about this earlier to the effect of once an NPC sees you in a disguise you need avoid him for the entire level if you change disguises. There should be a visual cue above the NPC or something less obtrusive like a button activated (not to bring up Instinct again) system that displays NPC's that will blow your cover (because in Hitman NPC's generally all look the same and I don't think that's gonna change any time soon). I think a lot of what your suggesting may be lost as players choose to avoid NPC's altogether due to all the work involved. I can see it work if there were a lot of situations where you are forced into contact with an NPC, but with the overview map, Instinct or whatever NPC detection system they choose to employ, not to mention hiding spots and such, I think it may just be a little too much to handle. Also, they would have to develop an entire script of phrases for every NPC as well as 47. Not to mention all the dialogue between NPC's and clues you'll have to look for as you pointed out. It will just turn the game from Hitman into Sherlock Chameleon.

This was a very long and detailed post. Don't get wrong, I like your ideas. I could see something like this working. I just think it's expecting a little too much.

The reason why I want NPC to forget your face is so that players won't be consistently restricted in exploring the sandbox like in HA. Anyway, if you are working in a casino, hotel or any crowded area, you won't exactly be able to remember everyone's face. Not unless you do something out of the ordinary. But maybe for smaller sandbox like the 'New Life' mission, maybe it can be tweak. About the script, well I don't think it will be a big issue for IO as for HA, they actually put 2000 over words scripts in the game. And not every interaction needs to have a different dialogue, some can be repeated like the case for HA, when you are caught in a restricted area, they always say the same thing. I agree with you that most of the suggestions would be lost during the work, but I just hope some ideas suggested can be consider in the Hitman 6.

FootFetish4Life
24th Jul 2014, 05:55
The reason why I want NPC to forget your face is so that players won't be consistently restricted in exploring the sandbox like in HA. Anyway, if you are working in a casino, hotel or any crowded area, you won't exactly be able to remember everyone's face. Not unless you do something out of the ordinary. But maybe for smaller sandbox like the 'New Life' mission, maybe it can be tweak. About the script, well I don't think it will be a big issue for IO as for HA, they actually put 2000 over words scripts in the game. And not every interaction needs to have a different dialogue, some can be repeated like the case for HA, when you are caught in a restricted area, they always say the same thing. I agree with you that most of the suggestions would be lost during the work, but I just hope some ideas suggested can be consider in the Hitman 6.

Hmm... with an overview map or Instinct that displays known NPC's, I don't think restriction should be such a problem. If an NPC is in the way, kill him. If you're worried about Silent Assassin that's what replays are for. However, I think I'm changing my mind on this whole conversation thing. There are certain situations when 47 needs to talk someone up in order to get by or get them to turn a blind eye. For example, disguising yourself as part of a security detail, in certain situations there should be the benefit of the doubt, another guard will stop you with "Your new aren't you?", and should be able to buy yourself some time to at least strangle him right after the exchange. However, and like Adrian Shephard said, how many different ways can you respond to "What the **** are you doing here?" I do think there should be some form of RPG-like conversation, but in certain situations, not in the general rule. From the perspective of the Silent Assassin rating, the more people 47 interacts with, the more he risks being identified. Let's say in the course of 1 mission 47 had 2 or 3 bluff moments. After a body is found and police arrive and they start questioning people, I could imagine 1 person forgetting about that strange someone, but 2 or 3? And then you have 3 people who ran into the same strange guy. Now all of a sudden they have a physical description. Maybe I read your idea wrong as having a significant impact on gameplay. The formula is good, but I would say allow 1 bluff for Silent Assassin (I would limit it to just prevent your cover from being blown during the mission), anything more than that will just add to the evidence sheet.

This would be a really good idea, but used more as a sort of a special power like the sedative syringe. But not as a main mechanism of the game.

MrJohnson
24th Jul 2014, 09:12
I do like the idea of manipulation : indeed, 47 is supposed to be a good liar and should be able to manipulate pngs more.

However, the "memory vision", well...
I am pretty sure it was explained in the books you talk about : 47 can also change his own body language and facial expressions in a way to take anyone's identity.
I remember someone talking about that : 47 kills a really fat guard and takes his place. The guard's buddy comes by, and well, obviously he should realize something's wrong, but 47 manages to change his face and attitude to LOOK fat, maybe also says something like "yeah I look like **** I feel kind of sick" and the dead man's friend doesn't realize anything

This is farfetched imo, but controling the way people sees him is something one of the books "explains", which also explains why npcs see you running around with different outfits in the game without suspecting a thing about your identity.

Assassin-Agent47
24th Jul 2014, 09:18
Hmm... with an overview map or Instinct that displays known NPC's, I don't think restriction should be such a problem. If an NPC is in the way, kill him. If you're worried about Silent Assassin that's what replays are for. However, I think I'm changing my mind on this whole conversation thing. There are certain situations when 47 needs to talk someone up in order to get by or get them to turn a blind eye. For example, disguising yourself as part of a security detail, in certain situations there should be the benefit of the doubt, another guard will stop you with "Your new aren't you?", and should be able to buy yourself some time to at least strangle him right after the exchange. However, and like Adrian Shephard said, how many different ways can you respond to "What the **** are you doing here?" I do think there should be some form of RPG-like conversation, but in certain situations, not in the general rule. From the perspective of the Silent Assassin rating, the more people 47 interacts with, the more he risks being identified. Let's say in the course of 1 mission 47 had 2 or 3 bluff moments. After a body is found and police arrive and they start questioning people, I could imagine 1 person forgetting about that strange someone, but 2 or 3? And then you have 3 people who ran into the same strange guy. Now all of a sudden they have a physical description. Maybe I read your idea wrong as having a significant impact on gameplay. The formula is good, but I would say allow 1 bluff for Silent Assassin (I would limit it to just prevent your cover from being blown during the mission), anything more than that will just add to the evidence sheet.

This would be a really good idea, but used more as a sort of a special power like the sedative syringe. But not as a main mechanism of the game.

Don't worry, you didn't read it wrong. In fact, mcescher1 and I discuss this on using the bluff too many times on a level. I think your idea of penalizing players on their rating for using the bluff too many times sounds legit. After all, if multiple people are able to describe the same person to authorities, it's bound to already give authorities certain description about the killer. It's the same thing as you doing something suspicious within the NPCs memory vision. Good touch man.

FootFetish4Life
24th Jul 2014, 18:29
I actually found your idea to be quite fun as I was reading it. For a moment I thought you were actually working on the game. Would be cool if IO's people were actually taking inspiration from this forum.

mcescher1
24th Jul 2014, 19:56
I mentioned it on HITMAN | FORUMS. I'm afraid I've never heard of this S3rg!O that you speak of.

there is no doubt about it !!!

you even got the username correct when robocop didn't!!!

it is sooo obvious agent_69 is sergio!!!

take your ban like a man brah! :lol:

FootFetish4Life
24th Jul 2014, 20:06
You obviously lead an exhilarating life being all preoccupied some anonymous avatar, genius! Anyway, whether we're the same guy or not is none of your ;):rasp:****:D:rolleyes: business.

AdrianShephard
24th Jul 2014, 22:43
:D