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B0b_P@ge
16th Jul 2014, 18:11
[NOTE: If feel what I wrote is TL;DR, then just watch the video!!!]

Hey guys!

Love DXHR very much, own the PS3 and Mac version! Super excited for DXHD and recently been thinking about it. What sort of story line would it be? What would be cool? I'd love to hear some of your ideas. Here's mine!

I recently watched this one anime called "Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet" which turned out to be a number one top fav. anime for 2013 and it brought a super interesting idea to the table which would be PERFECT for DXHD. I really hope the writers get to watch this anime and takes some ideas from it. Anyway, here's why I think this is awesome:

The story idea is as follows:
The earth is about to enter a catastrophic climate change as the interglacial period is ending and the 5th ice age is about to begin due to abnormal solar activity (the sun goes into a dangerous and abnormal hibernation phase). With human extinction as a realistic possibility, humanity asks the question "How to survive this apocalyptic situation?" and one of the answers is to "Develop for outer space and off world migration", another is "to technological augment the humans to survive the oncoming ice age."

With "migration to another star system" as the answer, a new and more important question arises afterwords: "What form should humanity take to the starts?". The question comes up because the trek to another star system would be extremely long, very dangerous and higher probably of dying - can humanity risk itself on this idea? With this in mind, two branches of humanity purpose to completely different answers to the problem:

1) [Purists]
The human form is sufficient, with heavy investment of research, this research will crystallize into building more advanced and safer ships that will carry us to the stars. This group essentially wants to keep humans as is.

2) [Transhumanists]
The human form is insufficient, therefore heavy nano-augmentation, genetic engineering and mechanical augmentation of the human form will result in us (humans) becoming THE SHIPS that will carry us to the stars. This group essentially wants everyone to turn into 'OMAR' and 'Zerg' organisms that can stand the harshness of space environment.

So the story goes, the earth continues to cool and human habitable land decreases rapidly so these ideas come into practice. The purists form the 'Continental Union' (which is assumed Canada+Mexico+USA) which build the space elevator and start working on 'immigration/generation ships'. The transhumanists get private funding from major corporations and some independent countries to create the 'Free Science Citadel' which is essentially an independent country on a remote island with no moral, legal or religious laws governing it and they're rushing to augment humanity to survive the oncoming harsh client. Note: The transhumanist call themselves the "Evolvers".

As time goes on, the transhumanist create humans to look like sea creatures, but are fully capable of surviving any environment. The purists are so terrified of this new development that they start a war of extermination with the transhumanists which starts on earth but eventually goes off world into space. The purists call themselves the 'Galactic Alliance of Humankind' and escape this solar system but the the evolves (who called themselves now the 'Hideauze') follow and this never-ending war is raging in the stars.

This video explains this everything I've written. If you enjoy it, I highly recommend you watch the anime:
EAobUlJ9qSo



Why is this so special?
This idea is essentially a re-telling of humanities story. Some 8 to 6 million years ago, our ancestors the apes faced a catastrophic environment climate change which could of resulted in their species extinction: The climate of Africa was changing so we (Apes) had to leave the comfort and safety of our trees and traverse the dangerous plains of Africa in search for other food. These open plains where patrolled by highly specialized predatory animals and did prey upon us defenceless apes who had no time to evolve biological defensive means to avoid these predators (Ex: legs to outrun the predators, or horns to attack the predators, etc, etc)... our ancestors chose 'technology was the key to our species survival'. In that period we developed fire, wooden weapons and other tools used to help us survive - intelligence was our ancestors advantage as they evolved slowly into the 'human' species that we are today and exist on every continent on this globe.

The story of facing a catastrophic environmental change and us (humans) using technology to avoid extinction is the story of humanity itself, and I think this would be a fantastic storyline for DXHD.

Thank you all for reading! Comments?

AdrianShephard
16th Jul 2014, 19:42
This seems like it's starting to encroach on Invisible War territory. You also have to remember that DX 1 is only 25 years after HR so nothing to drastic can happen or it will raise the question of why it wasn't mentioned in the original game.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
16th Jul 2014, 20:07
Great topic, B0b_P@ge, thanks. :thumb:

I'm liking the synopsis but I have a niggling question regarding the "purist" belief and space colonisation. Keep humans as is? I just don't see the point... or the likelihood. Long-distance space travel seems an impossible frontier for "pure" humans for several reasons.

Essentially, our biological form is designed for this planet, Earth. It seems absurd to retain this design if we are to leave this planet in search of others. We shouldn't just look for another earth (and there is no guarantee that there is another in any case); we need to look for other planets that we can survive on. End of. As a species, there is danger in putting all our eggs in one basket.... particularly when the basket is as big as the Universe! If the ultimate goal is the survival of the human race... then H+ seems the only realistic way. We need to drop this 'pure human' attitude and adapt ourselves where necessary. To me, its the human spirit that defines a human... it makes absolutely no difference what this individual looks like.

B0b_P@ge
16th Jul 2014, 21:59
Thanks Viktoria & Adrian Shephard. I enjoyed reading them!

First Adrian Shephard: True! However, in the original DX, there's an article telling of a 'mass driver accident' from a satellite thus impling there's some sort of advanced human space presence. Also, in DX:HR, if you take a look at the super-structures like a city on top of a city, or a giant arctic geo-engineering project, is a "space elevator" really that far fetched? Actually, if I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I'm wrong), isn't that arctic pangea project some sort of international effort to combat the worsening planetary climate, like some sort of deep decarbonization of our planet? If DX:HD would take place in the world after Jensen destroyed pangea, we can have a story of our climate being set on a irreversible course where humanity sort of must become H+ but some parts don't want it and thus we have IV, skipping the original Deus Ex! hehehe. Oh goodness that's a bad idea as DX1 is the best game ever! lol.

Next Viktoria. GREAT POINTS! Actually I'm glade you brought it up, heck I wouldn't argue against your point of view. I think the real issue though is this: If humanity would set out to the stars, three independent and mutually exclusive ideologies would form. Honestly, I'm copying these ideas from Civ:Beyond Earth:

1) Purist Ideals:
Keep the human form, and terraform the planet to suite our needs. Theoretically, our descendants would be able to return to our home world Earth; in addition, they would still be categorized as part of the 'human species'.

2) Harmony Ideals [H+]:
Evolve the human form by genetically engineer the human form to adapt to the current planet. This would involve changing all sort of our human vital organs to adapt to the alien host planet. In the long run, the decedents would become almost like alien creatures (green skin, different facial structure, etc) and completely unable to return to our home world Earth; moreover, if our descendants are unable to procreate with our fellow Earthlings, then by definition our descendants are now considered a new species! Crazy eh!

3) Supremacy Ideals [H+]:
Completely abandon the human form and taking up a physical form which makes us planetary agnostic - mean we can live on any planet under almost any condition. The only way something like this would happen is if we upload our consciousness into a machine, or have some sort of cybernetic infusion of our critical organs (brain) and machinery. Our descendants will most certainly be able to return to our home world but would they be considered human by fellow Earthlings? Actually, this is a fascinating idea. I think transhumanists would call these beings 'composite life-form'. Just as an side, in metallurgic engineering terms, a "composite" is basically two physically and chemically different metals which are incompatible with each other but are merged/combined in such a manner where together they are better together (ex: stronger, lighter, cheaper to produce, etc) then being two separate metals. This is sort of the same idea but imagine "Human" and "Artificial Intelligence" as the products being infused in a manner where both are depend on each other and get synergistic benefits by being merged. Without a dought this is a theme in both DX1&DX:IV. I think Morpheus from DX1 described these composite life-forms the best with this quote to JC:
"The unplanned organism is a question asked by nature and answered by death. You are a different kind of question, with a different kind of answer."

-----------------
Anyway, thanks for reading! Love to hear more comments. I love DX universe and I will be absolutely buying DX:HD when it comes out! Just hope the story writers look at what I wrote. :D

AdrianShephard
17th Jul 2014, 02:20
I could see this as being a Deus Ex game set further into the future i.e. during or post-Invisible War. Interesting topics.

zwanzig_zwoelf
17th Jul 2014, 12:11
bro i have a better idea how about this adam jensen and bob page become lovers and plan to take over the world then bob is like no adam i dont love you anymore i will conquer the world on my own goodbye mwah adam is like nooooooooooo and then 2 years later bob almost takes over the world and then adam like jumps through the roof grabs the gun music wubwubwub and bob is like waaah honey dont kill me adam like hesitates for a sec then bob grabs the pipe music wubwubwub hits jensen in the head then kisses him and runs off towards the credits line wub :)

CyberP
18th Jul 2014, 12:49
OP uses Page's name in vain. Bob Page is the mastermind of plots. Evil, multi-layered plots that are his own, not robbed from Anime.

3/10

:p

In all seriousness I like the concept but...I don't know. Ultimately depends on the execution, and has to have some conspiracies in there too.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
29th Jul 2014, 13:39
I think the real issue though is this: If humanity would set out to the stars, three independent and mutually exclusive ideologies would form. Honestly, I'm copying these ideas from Civ:Beyond Earth:

1) Purist Ideals:
Keep the human form, and terraform the planet to suite our needs. Theoretically, our descendants would be able to return to our home world Earth; in addition, they would still be categorized as part of the 'human species'.


Surely this ideology is flawed? Our sun will eventually die; and earth with it. There will be nothing for "pure" humans to return to.

Also, H+ should be categorised as part of the 'human species' imo.

OneUp77
29th Jul 2014, 17:23
I like this idea, mankind becoming more and more augmented to the point where the un-augmented population becomes afraid and launches a war on them.

In the past like HR, there was protests to limit and regulate augmentations but further in the future, mankind launches a war of extermination.

This makes for an even darker storyline for the DX universe.

AdrianShephard
29th Jul 2014, 18:36
In the past like HR, there was protests to limit and regulate augmentations

There were? I saw some protests in the trailer...but none in the game.

In the trailer I also saw protesters and police firing at each other, reminded me of the opening of DX 1 (which is what I think EM wanted).

Shralla
29th Jul 2014, 18:59
Still leans way too heavily on augmentation vs. no augmentation. That was literally the only thing HR talked about, while the original Deus Ex had a story that spanned all sorts of issues.

B0b_P@ge
17th Aug 2014, 19:17
Still leans way too heavily on augmentation vs. no augmentation. That was literally the only thing HR talked about, while the original Deus Ex had a story that spanned all sorts of issues.

Totally agree! Even I have a problem with my post in reference to what you said.

If any of you where a teenager and remember the late 90's and early 00's, the internet was this new and fascinating thing which had the potential to do tremendously change our lives (looking 2014 today and it indeed has) was becoming more and more accessible by the months. During that time there was paranoia and conspiracy theories, even popular shows where like X-files and popularity of extraterrestrial life was pretty high. Playing DX in 2000 was like tapping into the very zeitgeist vein of our time. DX's story resonated tremendously with us with and even acted prophetic as it showed us a "a world that could be" if we go down this certain path with our technology with the current state of the world:
1) Cybernetic society with rampant technological advancements
2) Government overstepping bounds with easy of ignoring laws
3) Re-shuffling of world-order / planetary directorship due to economic turmoil and technological advancements

I'm sure you've read this all before, and some authors probably describe this better like this fantastic article:
http://kotaku.com/how-deus-ex-predicted-the-future-1616252703

But to the point, DX "spoke" to what we where feeling and where anxious of. This sort of story is really what made DX absolutely incredible for me (not to mention the awesome gameplay). It still never ceases to amaze me how prophetic that game was and even relatable for today. During the WikiLeaks&Snowden saga, this quote Tracer Tong brilliantly summarizes the entire situation with how the NAS has perversive reach in awesome technologies like social media (twitter,Facebook,etc): "See how easily our technologies turn on us? The more power you think you have, the more quickly it slips from your grasp"

So.... the reason why I want to talk about this topic is how can Deus Ex: Humanity Divided (DX:HD) tap into the zeitgeist of todays minds like DX1 did of the 90's?

I would venture the guess: climate change. :eek:

B0b_P@ge
17th Aug 2014, 19:19
Surely this ideology is flawed? Our sun will eventually die; and earth with it. There will be nothing for "pure" humans to return to.

Also, H+ should be categorised as part of the 'human species' imo.

I would agree too! As long as these "augmented people" can interbreed with us fellow "non-augmented" people; however, at what point would the the technology interfere with reproduction? If these individuals can no longer reproduce with us, then by scientific definition, they are a different species.

AdrianShephard
17th Aug 2014, 20:13
So.... the reason why I want to talk about this topic is how can Deus Ex: Humanity Divided (DX:HD) tap into the zeitgeist of todays minds like DX1 did of the 90's?

I would venture the guess: climate change. :eek:

Climate change, technology overtaking humans in the workforce (even more than today), surveillance, terrorism (more domestic than foreign), limited resources, super antibiotic resistant bacteria, collapsing economy etc. etc. Basically all the ideas that weren't focused on primarily in DX but were a vital part of the backstory. DX was mainly concerned about the Gray Death and MJ-12...so DX4 (please god don't let it be called Humanity Divided) can explore the events leading up to JC's first day at UNATCO. Utah seceding from the Union, major climate change in California...hell you could even be a high level MJ-12 trooper doing some dirty work and inciting violence. So many doors open other than the uninteresting aug vs no aug debate.

WildcatPhoenix
18th Aug 2014, 00:52
If they intend to follow the established Deus Ex canon (although I haven't really seen any indication of this), the 2030's could be a pretty chaotic and destructive setting. Natural disasters sinking most of California, major wars, disease outbreaks, and the beginnings of what will eventually become the NSF. Would make for an interesting time period, especially with the MJ12 coup against the Illuminati also taking place somewhere in the 2030s.

But of course, we're most likely to be treated to another round of "augs vs. no-aug" transhumanism again. :hmm:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
18th Aug 2014, 10:21
I would agree too! As long as these "augmented people" can interbreed with us fellow "non-augmented" people; however, at what point would the the technology interfere with reproduction? If these individuals can no longer reproduce with us, then by scientific definition, they are a different species.

Interesting question. I imagine reproduction will not be a problem at all for Omar - they would have thought about this well in advance.
Even today we can achieve reproduction without the need for intimacy... and in the future synthetic wombs will be commonplace. The possibilities are endless.

1nflu3n2
19th Aug 2014, 22:27
@ OP I'l present you a way more simple idea that remains in line with DXHR's story.


Since I haven't read the any other media related to DXHR I don't know if this story was told already somehow (besides Michael Zelazny's quest in the game), but it's possible to pick up the overall story of Michael Zelazny continue from the end of DXHR and make a new game out of it. It's way more simple.


Action-RPG with a bit of survivalism in a cybernetic post-apocalyptic world filled with aug-zombies :D

# The setting

A cybernetic post apocalyptic world devasted by a virus that affected augmented people (people had no credits or resources to replace the parts in such great quantities, so certain organizations/companies offered to replace them as long as you worked exclusively for them; main communication networks - main back bones, satellites,... - had been destroyed by anonymous groups of "terrorists" or were damaged in the aftermath).

Most cities where filled with augmented zombies, people with disfunctional augs and poor non-aug people. The ones that had enough resources, knowledge and health build new organizations to try and start anew.

Your character wakes up naked in a landfill only having a message from a scientist/researcher/engineer stating that "You have little time to live, enjoy it!"
Your first mission: get clothes.
Your second mission: get someone and/or something that helps you maintain and upgrade your mech augs.
Your main mission: discover what happened to you and stop your life timer.

You start this trip passing through many places trying to discover how to extend your life and know what happened to you.

# The Endings

You later discover you were a prototype for an advanced augmented soldier.
The program you were in involved the donation of your body for research purposes or you were abducted.

You were sent to landfill by a scientist/researcher/engineer that actually was an infiltrated member of a group that wanted to stop the program. The mission was to liberate as many of subjects there but he/she was caught in action and only had time to liberate you by concealing you in the dumpster.

End 1: stop the manufacturing facility; getting your life extended.
End 2: stop the manufacturing facility; not getting your life extended.
End 3: mantain the manufacturing facility; getting your life extended.
End 4: mantain the manufacturing facility; not getting your life extended.

Endings explained:

End 1 - you despise such future and free the remaining subjects, but continue to live surveilling from the shadows at any other attempts to bring this project back (join the rebel party).
End 2 - you despise such future, and you don't wan't to live in it so you give information to interested parties about the perpetrators and how to stop them and their plans.
End 3 - you recognize it's the future's salvation for a more peaceful world, but wan't to control it (you want to control how wars are fought).
End 4 - you recognize it's the future's salvation, but you don't wan't to live in it and let you timer expire/offer yourself for sacrifice/erase your memory.


It can't get more basic than this... :)

WildcatPhoenix
20th Aug 2014, 04:14
A cybernetic post apocalyptic world devasted by a virus that affected augmented people (people had no credits or resources to replace the parts in such great quantities, so certain organizations/companies offered to replace them as long as you worked exclusively for them; main communication networks - main back bones, satellites,... - had been destroyed by anonymous groups of "terrorists" or were damaged in the aftermath).

Most cities where filled with augmented zombies, people with disfunctional augs and poor non-aug people. The ones that had enough resources, knowledge and health build new organizations to try and start anew.


No offense, man, but haven't we had enough of zombies by now?

Deus Ex is never going to be about survival horror.

LeMoN_LiMe
20th Aug 2014, 05:37
Hasn't Deus Ex (I never played 2 thankfully) always been about Man vs Machine?

People vs Government

Have vs Have Not

These were covered in both DE1 & HR

1nflu3n2
20th Aug 2014, 12:22
Like I said before, this is basic,.... very, very basic stuff.

I was kinda joking about the zombies... kinda... :D

But the main focus would be about finding and replacing mechanical augs as you progressed throughout the game - one of the ideas we discussed in early development of DXHR.
It would make sense since this time around you wouldn't have access to cutting edge technology so you would need to scrap for parts and manage the condition of your limbs - queue locational damage.
It would also imply a slower paced game, hence it being a little bit more about survivalism.

Then again, this all could be more suited for a Fallout DLC. :D

WildcatPhoenix
20th Aug 2014, 15:12
But the main focus would be about finding and replacing mechanical augs as you progressed throughout the game - one of the ideas we discussed in early development of DXHR.
It would make sense since this time around you wouldn't have access to cutting edge technology so you would need to scrap for parts and manage the condition of your limbs - queue locational damage.
It would also imply a slower paced game, hence it being a little bit more about survivalism.


I actually would like to see more of a focus on the biomechanical aspect of the player's augmentations. DX1 made it appear that the first generation of augmented people were horrifically mutilated or freakish looking, and the augmentations themselves were clunky and awkward and in constant need of maintenance. That's obviously not the case in DXHR.

Hell, if Adam Jensen already existed, there's really no need to go to the expense and time of making the Denton brothers. Adam is perfectly capable of blending in with the general population.

Just another instance where EM completely ignored the universe established by DX1. But yeah, I do like the idea of augs getting worn out or needing maintenance, and of course, locational damage is always welcome.

AdrianShephard
20th Aug 2014, 15:41
Hell, if Adam Jensen already existed, there's really no need to go to the expense and time of making the Denton brothers. Adam is perfectly capable of blending in with the general population.

Just another instance where EM completely ignored the universe established by DX1. But yeah, I do like the idea of augs getting worn out or needing maintenance, and of course, locational damage is always welcome.

Ha, forgot about this. DX made it seem like mech augs were grizzly things only military/police organizations or gangsters used. Love the actuator line JC says...