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JaneBeard
16th Jul 2014, 03:57
Please enable players to have more checkpoints or a limited number of saves per level.

That's it. That's the only request needed.

After revisiting Absolution--which was amazing--I realized that I started not enjoying the experience midway through. Why? Because I had played the same part of the same level over twenty times to try to get a perfect silent assassin rating _without_being forced to wear a disguise.

Having to go back to your checkpoint or the start of the level erases all your work, all your patience, and in the end, much of the enjoyment.

Please add either more checkpoints or a limited number of saves per level.

Thank you!

JaneBeard
16th Jul 2014, 04:22
Two more things:

1. More James Bond (exotic locations, mature subjects), less baby-sitter
2. More normal looking (so we can relate to him), less uber-body builder

Thank you.

MrJohnson
16th Jul 2014, 07:49
Uh, I'm pretty sure we are not supposed to relate to a cloned-killing-machine-almost-unable-to-feel dude, tho

JaneBeard
16th Jul 2014, 17:27
The Hitman was not so ridiculously buff in the earlier games. As for being able to relate to the main character, of course players want that, it's how you create an emotional attachment, and through that explore the darker side of human nature, which is what this game is about.

AdrianShephard
16th Jul 2014, 19:34
The Hitman was not so ridiculously buff in the earlier games. As for being able to relate to the main character, of course players want that, it's how you create an emotional attachment, and through that explore the darker side of human nature, which is what this game is about.

I agree with the 47 image statement. 47 was represented as tall with a leaner build in the older games and I think they should keep it that way. Over the years, he has steadily gained more muscle as the Blood Money 47 is notably "thicker" than the C:47 or Silent Assassin 47.

I disagree with the emotional statement part. Some games have protagonists that are meant to connect with the player (Red Dead Redemption, Last of Us, etc), some games have protagonists that are blank slates which are meant for you to project your own personality into them (Deus Ex, Half Life, etc), and some games have a protagonist that is just there for you to have fun (Hitman, GTA, etc). Story was never a strong point for Hitman but I don't blame IO because a story would interfere too much with game play.

I feel like we are supposed to connect more with the victims of our targets than to 47 himself i.e. the girl in The Meat King's Party. That way, we can play as Death himself and make the bad people pay for what they have done. That's how I have always seen it anyway.

Aybroe
16th Jul 2014, 20:20
Spot on Adrian!

And according to the open letter the checkpoint system has been ditched. Thank god, because it just didn't work at all. Manual saves should be the way to go. I liked the SA pattern on the saves; 0 for pro, 2 for expert and abitmorebutcantrememberhowmany (perhaps 5?) for normal. Or was it even as large of a number as 7 saves per level? Anyhow, just bring the manual saves back.

semajmarc87
16th Jul 2014, 23:02
I agree with the 47 image statement. 47 was represented as tall with a leaner build in the older games and I think they should keep it that way. Over the years, he has steadily gained more muscle as the Blood Money 47 is notably "thicker" than the C:47 or Silent Assassin 47.

I disagree with the emotional statement part. Some games have protagonists that are meant to connect with the player (Red Dead Redemption, Last of Us, etc), some games have protagonists that are blank slates which are meant for you to project your own personality into them (Deus Ex, Half Life, etc), and some games have a protagonist that is just there for you to have fun (Hitman, GTA, etc). Story was never a strong point for Hitman but I don't blame IO because a story would interfere too much with game play.

I feel like we are supposed to connect more with the victims of our targets than to 47 himself i.e. the girl in The Meat King's Party. That way, we can play as Death himself and make the bad people pay for what they have done. That's how I have always seen it anyway.

I agree 100%. Well said.

kewlak
16th Jul 2014, 23:52
The Hitman was not so ridiculously buff in the earlier games. As for being able to relate to the main character, of course players want that, it's how you create an emotional attachment, and through that explore the darker side of human nature, which is what this game is about.
This time i agree with JaneBeard.
I wouldn't compare emotional attachment to Hitman with emotional attachment to GTA main characters (like Adrian said).
Hitman's character SHOULD be deeper than protagonist's that is just there to have fun. And it was IOI's intention from the beginning, i mean from Codename 47: The best killer clone without past takes revenge on his creator-manipulator, then he regrets for his actions and unavailingly tries to change himself (Silent Assassin), finally gets into trouble (Contracts, where we can explore the darker side of human nature - like JaneBeard wrote).

I think these all threads were too complex and interesting to create a cheesy "protagonist that is just there for you to have fun".

Blood Money was little less deep (but with the best gameplay ever). I think this part's main depth was showing 47 as real professional who got on top. ... And now Absolution: with lame 47's character and lame gameplay (no offense to IOI).

One more thing:

I feel like we are supposed to connect more with the victims of our targets than to 47 himself i.e. the girl in The Meat King's Party. That way, we can play as Death himself and make the bad people pay for what they have done. That's how I have always seen it anyway.
I hardly ever connect with the victims more than with 47. I even think it wasn't supposed to do so, because that's why 47 kills bad people in majority.

AdrianShephard
17th Jul 2014, 01:30
This time i agree with JaneBeard.
I wouldn't compare emotional attachment to Hitman with emotional attachment to GTA main characters (like Adrian said).
Hitman's character SHOULD be deeper than protagonist's that is just there to have fun. And it was IOI's intention from the beginning, i mean from Codename 47: The best killer clone without past takes revenge on his creator-manipulator, then he regrets for his actions and unavailingly tries to change himself (Silent Assassin), finally gets into trouble (Contracts, where we can explore the darker side of human nature - like JaneBeard wrote).

I think these all threads were too complex and interesting to create a cheesy "protagonist that is just there for you to have fun".

Blood Money was little less deep (but with the best gameplay ever). I think this part's main depth was showing 47 as real professional who got on top. ... And now Absolution: with lame 47's character and lame gameplay (no offense to IOI).

One more thing:

I hardly ever connect with the victims more than with 47. I even think it wasn't supposed to do so, because that's why 47 kills bad people in majority.

From where I see it, video game protagonists usually fall into the two categories which is: I care about them and I don't care about them. The silent protagonist/blank character is on the fence because it is up to the player to connect with them so he/she can care or not care. The other 2 categories are defined more by the story/developers than the actual feeling of the player i.e. regardless of how you, individually, felt about John Marston or Joel and Ellie, you are supposed to care about them. GTA and a lot of the Call of Duty characters are designed (maybe not intentionally) in a way that their deaths don't really hit you apart from, maybe, a moment's heartbreak.

Under these guidelines, I would put 47 in the "not care" category. It may sound harsh, but I'm defining "care" to mean emotional investment. I don't feel what 47 feels in a mission and I'm pretty sure IO is aware of that distance between player and 47. I think that's a big reason why IO chose to go with the more emotional story of Absolution, to show that he is a human like all of us. The evidence is in the original games. How much do we learn about 47 throughout the series? Beyond the fact that he is a cloned killer with uncharacteristically better agility and strength than an average human, and that he escaped from a faux asylum at the age of 30, we know near nothing about 47. Yes, we see a more regretful 47 in Silent Assassin but apart from that, we aren't given much else. Instead, the primary focus is on 47's work.

It is evident that IO puts a big spotlight on the targets we are supposed to eliminate. The mission briefings are meant to stir up our emotions and gets us ready to deliver our own form of justice; we are often given more information about our targets than 47 himself. We are told of a target's vices, their crimes, and sometimes the repercussions if they are allowed to live. When I saw the girl in The Meat King's Party, I immediately wanted to put a bullet through the pervert's head. In the back of the strip club in Absolution, when I found the dead girl stashed away, I told myself that I did a good thing killing whats-his-face.

We have all seen what happens when IO wants us to care about 47. Not only is it weird (for me at least) to play as a character for more than a decade not thinking deeply about him and then all of the sudden seeing him make tough moral choices, but it also makes him come off as unprofessional. We see 47 getting electrocuted, beat up, and narrowly escaping death multiple times but did the majority of gamers feel for 47? Did we say to ourselves, "damn that cowboy, I'm going to get him now for what he did to 47"? No. We were asking ourselves when the next sicko we were supposed to kill would show up.

Have you noticed that barely anyone (if no one) on the forum has mentioned/suggested a possible story for Hitman 6? There was a small discussion on the backstory of 47 long ago and that went no where since we are given little information about him. Most people discuss things like gameplay because that is what we actually care about. Like I said, story and Hitman don't mix well. We play Hitman for the fun and puzzling killing.

**I guess what I'm trying to get at is that IO should focus on making the targets really despicable so that we feel the need to take them out; I feel that's what the series focuses on (just look at the ads for Blood Money). Yeah, 47 as a character is cool and all, but he is just a tool for us to use on our mission. I think that making us connect with him more will adversely effect the immersiveness of the game.

FootFetish4Life
17th Jul 2014, 03:29
I second disagreement with what you said about 47 being a blank avatar used to vicariously deliver our aspirations. The Hitman story, I always thought, was complex and actually surprised me for a video game. There were even novels written. I just think the devs made a point to not let the story disrupt the gameplay too much.

While it may be hard to get the masses to feel for a cold blooded serial killer, at the same time I think there's more to 47 than that. I'll refer to the ending of Blood Money when Diana stabbed him in the neck with a syringe, a part of me was seriously interested in what his outcome was gonna be.

It's just that, due to the nature of his character, it's harder to develop a hormone-induced connection to him like you would with other characters who are, otherwise, more innocent than 47. Where 47 connects with people is in his bad ass-nes. The taboo survival-of-the-fittest aspect that's often overlooked.

While I do think there are way more engaging characters out there, I don't think 47 is just a blank delivery tool.

AdrianShephard
17th Jul 2014, 09:24
I second disagreement with what you said about 47 being a blank avatar used to vicariously deliver our aspirations...While I do think there are way more engaging characters out there, I don't think 47 is just a blank delivery tool.
No no no. I didn't say he is a blank slate. That is it's own protagonist class in itself. 47 has his own personality that IO sort of plays up. But what I'm getting at is that I think we are supposed to care more about our targets than 47 himself.



The Hitman story, I always thought, was complex and actually surprised me for a video game. There were even novels written...I'll refer to the ending of Blood Money when Diana stabbed him in the neck with a syringe, a part of me was seriously interested in what his outcome was gonna be.

You are confusing plot with actual character connection. Of course you are going to wonder what happens to 47 next -- that's part of the story. And for the story being complex...well I can't argue your personal preferences. You are one of a few people I have met that actually thinks the story is complex. To me, it's pretty straightforward.



It's just that, due to the nature of his character, it's harder to develop a hormone-induced connection to him like you would with other characters who are, otherwise, more innocent than 47. Where 47 connects with people is in his bad ass-nes. The taboo survival-of-the-fittest aspect that's often overlooked.


It's not a bad thing that we can't connect with 47. Like I've said before, the focus isn't on story, it's on gameplay. And 47 being a badass won't make people connect with I don't think. Yeah it's cool playing as a badass (and that's half the game!) but actually developing emotions for a character because of it? Not for the majority.

kewlak
17th Jul 2014, 11:10
Yeah it's cool playing as a badass (and that's half the game!) but actually developing emotions for a character because of it? Not for the majority.
Why? You can connect with evil emotions as well.

From where I see it, video game protagonists usually fall into the two categories which is: I care about them and I don't care about them. The silent protagonist/blank character is on the fence because it is up to the player to connect with them so he/she can care or not care. The other 2 categories are defined more by the story/developers than the actual feeling of the player i.e. regardless of how you, individually, felt about John Marston or Joel and Ellie, you are supposed to care about them. GTA and a lot of the Call of Duty characters are designed (maybe not intentionally) in a way that their deaths don't really hit you apart from, maybe, a moment's heartbreak.

Under these guidelines, I would put 47 in the "not care" category. It may sound harsh, but I'm defining "care" to mean emotional investment. I don't feel what 47 feels in a mission and I'm pretty sure IO is aware of that distance between player and 47. I think that's a big reason why IO chose to go with the more emotional story of Absolution, to show that he is a human like all of us. The evidence is in the original games. How much do we learn about 47 throughout the series? Beyond the fact that he is a cloned killer with uncharacteristically better agility and strength than an average human, and that he escaped from a faux asylum at the age of 30, we know near nothing about 47. Yes, we see a more regretful 47 in Silent Assassin but apart from that, we aren't given much else. Instead, the primary focus is on 47's work.

It is evident that IO puts a big spotlight on the targets we are supposed to eliminate. The mission briefings are meant to stir up our emotions and gets us ready to deliver our own form of justice; we are often given more information about our targets than 47 himself. We are told of a target's vices, their crimes, and sometimes the repercussions if they are allowed to live. When I saw the girl in The Meat King's Party, I immediately wanted to put a bullet through the pervert's head. In the back of the strip club in Absolution, when I found the dead girl stashed away, I told myself that I did a good thing killing whats-his-face.

We have all seen what happens when IO wants us to care about 47. Not only is it weird (for me at least) to play as a character for more than a decade not thinking deeply about him and then all of the sudden seeing him make tough moral choices, but it also makes him come off as unprofessional. We see 47 getting electrocuted, beat up, and narrowly escaping death multiple times but did the majority of gamers feel for 47? Did we say to ourselves, "damn that cowboy, I'm going to get him now for what he did to 47"? No. We were asking ourselves when the next sicko we were supposed to kill would show up.

Have you noticed that barely anyone (if no one) on the forum has mentioned/suggested a possible story for Hitman 6? There was a small discussion on the backstory of 47 long ago and that went no where since we are given little information about him. Most people discuss things like gameplay because that is what we actually care about. Like I said, story and Hitman don't mix well. We play Hitman for the fun and puzzling killing.

**I guess what I'm trying to get at is that IO should focus on making the targets really despicable so that we feel the need to take them out; I feel that's what the series focuses on (just look at the ads for Blood Money). Yeah, 47 as a character is cool and all, but he is just a tool for us to use on our mission. I think that making us connect with him more will adversely effect the immersiveness of the game.
That's true that we haven't learned much about 47 throughout the series, but it isn't necessary to connect with him emotionally.

47's character is cold, mysterious and deprived of emotions (who read Hitman books knows what i'm talking about), yet he isn't so evil person and he kills only when he must. These things make you feel connected to him emotionally during playing games and reading books about him. You wonder if would it be possible for such cold and perfect killer to exist, does he regret being created and what does he think about his creator (resembles Frankenstein a bit). This sketch should be inseparably linked with gameplay, where you have to prove your professionalism and coldness.

I know that threads about 47's beginnings, his alienation and playing god was getting paler throughout last titles, but now IOI has a chance to create very good game with really deep plot (since they have announced they're going to return to roots). I'd love to play 47 as he was a kid in the asylum, see his first murder and learn what made him who he is.