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daventry
25th Jun 2014, 07:32
Please dont put the Therapy Trailer as part of the Game, let us start the Game with Lara Allone and what the Story of the Game is about. Hence dont let the Game be Depressing.

Basically the same with Sam, mention her in upcoming Trailers with the rest of the Crew as to what happens to them, but Dont mention or put them in ROTTR

Put whatever in the Comics like whatever happened to Lara's Parents, so it can be Resolved quickly if they are Dead or Alive so we can start a Fresh Lara Croft Tomb Raider Game.

For the Sam Lovers, please make an Unlockable Skin for them to play as Sam if they want her so bad.

Remember the Movie Brave, None of their Trailers made it onto the Movie, so please do it like that.

Should the Game have Flashbacks throughout with Lara in Therapy while we see Scenes from TR2013 plus we see what happened to the Crew and Sam afterwards during the Game until finally at the End of the Game we hear Lara say: They become who they are meant to be in witch then we get an Actual TR3 Game.

Basically, do you want the Game to be a Total Therapy Session with Lara Sobbing and trying to pull herself together.

Driber
25th Jun 2014, 08:30
Please dont put the Therapy Trailer as part of the Game, let us start the Game with Lara Allone and what the Story of the Game is about. Hence dont let the Game be Depressing.

A few shots of Lara in therapy in the in-game intro FMV is going to make the whole game depressing now?


Put whatever in the Comics like whatever happened to Lara's Parents, so it can be Resolved quickly if they are Dead or Alive so we can start a Fresh Lara Croft Tomb Raider Game.

Lara's parents is obviously a big deal in Lara's story, so to "quickly get it over with in the comics" would be lame, IMO.


For the Sam Lovers, please make an Unlockable Skin for them to play as Sam if they want her so bad.

Oh hell no!

Kurtis was enough, thank you very much :p

Driber
25th Jun 2014, 08:34
Remember the Movie Brave, None of their Trailers made it onto the Movie, so please do it like that.

Haven't seen the movie, but I don't care what they did. TR is TR, Brave is Brave.


Should the Game have Flashbacks throughout with Lara in Therapy while we see Scenes from TR2013 plus we see what happened to the Crew and Sam afterwards during the Game until finally at the End of the Game we hear Lara say: They become who they are meant to be in witch then we get an Actual TR3 Game.

Basically, do you want the Game to be a Total Therapy Session with Lara Sobbing and trying to pull herself together.

Speculation, speculation, speculation. I doubt the game will be set up like this.

It sounds like you have an inherent problem with Lara being in therapy. Why don't you address the points made in this thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=145134) ;)

daventry
25th Jun 2014, 08:42
My Thread isent about Woman being weak and i dont have an issue about Lara in Therapy, i just dont want the Game to focus on that.

Its a Game, Not a Movie. They can do that with the Movie they are making at Hollywood and then do it in the Second Movie.

a_big_house
25th Jun 2014, 08:45
But the game has to have a story, otherwise there's nothing to keep you engaged. I don't think the game will focus on Lara's therapy, but it really shouldn't be an issue if it did :)

daventry
25th Jun 2014, 08:57
The Game has a Story, its about Trinity and the GPS Signals Lara found on the Island, thats what ROTTR is about.
The Last GPS Find
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfXjubo2ew0

No need to have a Ball of Chain being dragged around your Ankle so we can focus on what happened previously with Lara on the Island and where her Friends are now.

The Trailer showed Lara in Therapy and the Comics are telling us what is happening with her Friends, now its done, no need to Repeat it as an Opening FMV for the Game. Focus on the Story thats to come about what Lara found.

The Classic TR Games Never showed Flashbacks or any mention of what happened previously, the Only mention you get is from TR2 at Lara's Mansion Training Ground where she says: Ah Welcome back after that Grueling Business last year. That was it.

Crystal did it with their Trilogy and now Square Enix is following the same trend. Forget the Past, focus on the Now.

Driber
25th Jun 2014, 09:22
My Thread isent about Woman being weak and i dont have an issue about Lara in Therapy, i just dont want the Game to focus on that.

Alright, you don't have an inherent problem with Lara being in therapy. But you don't have any idea if the game will really "focus on it", do you?


No need to have a Ball of Chain being dragged around your Ankle so we can focus on what happened previously with Lara on the Island and where her Friends are now.

The Trailer showed Lara in Therapy and the Comics are telling us what is happening with her Friends, now its done, no need to Repeat it as an Opening FMV for the Game. Focus on the Story thats to come about what Lara found.

This is just more speculation. You have no idea how it's going to pan out in the game. So the "ball of chain" comment is ridiculous at this point when you have next to zero info about the game.

Also, we're only half way into the comics. You have no way of saying what is done and what isn't.

Driber
25th Jun 2014, 09:30
The Classic TR Games Never showed Flashbacks or any mention of what happened previously, the Only mention you get is from TR2 at Lara's Mansion Training Ground where she says: Ah Welcome back after that Grueling Business last year. That was it.

LOL, I guess you forgot about TR chronicles. That was an entire game dedicated to flashbacks :lol:


Crystal did it with their Trilogy and now Square Enix is following the same trend. Forget the Past, focus on the Now.

I have to ask, are you a Core fanboy by any chance?

a_big_house
25th Jun 2014, 09:30
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, Crystal ARE making these games, Square Enix are just the publishers, the same as the previous 4 games. Plus there has literally been zero information about the games story, there is no evidence to suggest Trinity will feature in the story, all we know is what we speculate, which is exactly what your OP is, speculation.

daventry
25th Jun 2014, 09:39
Yea im a Core Fan Boy, you just dont know me on the Tomb Raider Forums.

Yes the Previous Classic Games had Flashbacks, but they told the Story Point of the Game, not what happened previously in TR1 and now the Conclusion in TR2. what happened previously in TR2 and now the Conclusion in TR3.

Sure TRC was an entire Flashback Game, but it was Wonderfully done whereas in TRAOD it was the Next Game with its Next Story that had a Minor Flashback about TR4

So Hopefully, the Therapy thing will just be the Opening FMV and then we Focus the entire Game on the New Story.

Driber
25th Jun 2014, 09:56
So the flashback ridden game TRC gets a pass because it was made by the holy Core Design, but TR10 already is condemned before even seeing it, let alone released, because it's made by Crystal Dynamics and published by the evil Square Enix.

I'm sorry, but I really can't take this kind of criticism stemming from blind fanboyism seriously.

daventry
25th Jun 2014, 10:00
:lol:

Alright i'll wait until such time comes for the Real Complaints :p

Driber
25th Jun 2014, 10:13
lol, fine by me.

If you want to criticize TR10 when you actually have something substantial to go on, knock yourself out :D

Valenka
25th Jun 2014, 12:55
Please dont put the Therapy Trailer as part of the Game, let us start the Game with Lara Allone and what the Story of the Game is about. Hence dont let the Game be Depressing.

Really? You're already making judgements before you even know what the game is about? Talk about getting a premature jump down the developers' throats. So what if the announcement trailer footage is in the game? It might serve as an introduction like the Turning Point trailer was for TR9. You're letting your bias cloud your common sense and turn your speculation into headache inducing paranoia.

Just because they include a therapy scene doesn't make the game depressing. Even if it did, so what? I found TR9 to be depressing, seeing Lara go through Hell and back.


My Thread isent about Woman being weak and i dont have an issue about Lara in Therapy, i just dont want the Game to focus on that.

Its a Game, Not a Movie. They can do that with the Movie they are making at Hollywood and then do it in the Second Movie.

You clearly do have an issue with Lara in therapy since every other post, you're clucking about it. We get it: you don't want to see Lara in therapy for the length of the game. Okay! Message received. I doubt the game would focus on Lara in therapy because if it did, there wouldn't be much gameplay.


The Game has a Story, its about Trinity and the GPS Signals Lara found on the Island, thats what ROTTR is about.
The Last GPS Find
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfXjubo2ew0

Please, for the love of God, do not state speculation as a fact. Just because that was a cliff-hanger in TR9 does not mean that it will be ROTTR's main plot. It could be a side story or it could appear in the third instalment. There's a possibility it's about Trinity and the failed mission on Yamatai but you don't know that for certain.


No need to have a Ball of Chain being dragged around your Ankle so we can focus on what happened previously with Lara on the Island and where her Friends are now.

The Trailer showed Lara in Therapy and the Comics are telling us what is happening with her Friends, now its done, no need to Repeat it as an Opening FMV for the Game. Focus on the Story thats to come about what Lara found.

Have you considered that maybe not everyone's read the comics? If they want to do a "Previously in Tomb Raider..." like they did with Underworld, then let them. It doesn't have to me a main portion of the game, perhaps a video in the Extras section of the main menu.


The Classic TR Games Never showed Flashbacks or any mention of what happened previously, the Only mention you get is from TR2 at Lara's Mansion Training Ground where she says: Ah Welcome back after that Grueling Business last year. That was it.

You're not too observant, then.


Crystal did it with their Trilogy and now Square Enix is following the same trend. Forget the Past, focus on the Now.

First of all, Square Enix isn't the developer, they're the publisher. Crystal Dynamics is still doing the games, from Legend until God knows when, so don't blame Square Enix for anything, especially something they had no part of. Yet another example of how most of your opinions are built on a foundation of ignorance.

Lastly, wrong. You're once again basing your opinions with no supporting evidence. Show me the proof that we're getting another trilogy like Legend/Anniversary/Underworld. You can't. Care to know why? Only one game has been released and no one is psychic.


Yea im a Core Fan Boy, you just dont know me on the Tomb Raider Forums.

Yes the Previous Classic Games had Flashbacks, but they told the Story Point of the Game, not what happened previously in TR1 and now the Conclusion in TR2. what happened previously in TR2 and now the Conclusion in TR3.

Sure TRC was an entire Flashback Game, but it was Wonderfully done whereas in TRAOD it was the Next Game with its Next Story that had a Minor Flashback about TR4

So Hopefully, the Therapy thing will just be the Opening FMV and then we Focus the entire Game on the New Story.

You've just completely back-pedalled and contradicted your entire point of the thread in five sentences. Why? Just because someone challenged your [wrong] statements? First you self-proclaim yourself as a Core Design 'fan-boy.' Bad idea. Then, you acknowledge that the previous games had flashbacks even though a post ago, you claimed that flashbacks never appeared in classic Tomb Raider, when in fact, they did. Next, you praise Tomb Raider Chronicles, even though it was a completely flashback game - which you acknowledge - but it's okay because Core Design made it, and lastly, you're hoping that the announcement trailer footage is included in the game, but as the opening cutscene - like in TR9 - even though in the OP, you didn't want it to be in the game at all.

With all due respect, daventry, I think you're just biased and your blind opinions are going overboard. There's nothing wrong with including the therapy scene especially with the possibility of it being a portion of the plot, maybe as a side-story.

You're sitting there praising Tomb Raider Chronicles which you acknowledge as a game nothing more than flashbacks within the story, but it's the holy grail of all Tomb Raider games because it was made by Core Design. Guess what? Core Design doesn't exist, so the sooner you grasp that concept, the sooner our headaches will go away. Crystal Dynamics is going to do it their way, whether you like it or not, and if you can't come to terms with that, then I suggest you lock yourself in a room with your PS1 and leave the rest of us to revel in the possible significant success of ROTTR. *takes deep breath*

Sweet Jesus, Mary and Joseph. :lol:

Tecstar70
25th Jun 2014, 13:25
Agree with Valenka here. Too much speculation is damaging some peoples perspective. I think CD have a good handle on Lara's journey. Now the delivery of it may not float everyone boat but we should leave it to CD to deliver. They seem more than conscientious enough to try to do it right.

To address the therapy comment, we know Lara is on a journey. It wouldn't make sense for the whole game to revolve around therapy itself but if that was a key theme, lets say her "adventures" are the subject of her therapy sessions similar to how "Chronicles" was delivered then it could work.

However the story plays out, I think we can be pretty sure Lara will start at point A and end at point B of a journey and that it is unlikely to be a depressing one. We all want a good story attached to the game don't we?

What kinda bugs me more and more is that people keep going on about the old TR and how much they love it and the new games need to be like the old one.
FFS - no they don't. Get over it. Go play old PC games or PS1 games. Stop whining about the new TR. Either play it or don't but don't keep comparing the old and new. Be critical and constructive about the new but MOVE ON.

The only known facts about ROTTR is the trailer. 1m38s of quick scenes. Thats it. Speculate all you want - its great to do that because we are all anticipating the next game but don't state anything else as fact.

Apologies for ranting but I am getting really peeved about these kind of statements. If this is what goes on in other TR forums then I am not going anywhere near them!

Daventry, I am sure you are a nice person who enjoys games as much as anyone but aren't you just winding yourself up with all this speculation and nostalgia for something that is not coming back?

Metalrocks
25th Jun 2014, 14:57
lol, the game is not even out yet and we already speculate about it. :nut:

cant comment about the older games due personal reasons but im glad that crystal took over.
and as the others said, we need a story to progress the story and characters. but i also highly doubt that the game will focus mainly on the sessions. either we see it right at the beginning of the game or half way through or even at the end, lara telling him her problems, indicating that we played a giant flashback.
maybe we get something similar like in max payne 2 that the intro was a part from half way through the game and then we play a flashback until we reached that scene we saw in the intro.

i just hope that this trailer wont be the intro as they did with the previous one. that just felt lame in my view.

Tihocan
26th Jun 2014, 01:00
Ok, seriously, why are you creating threads repeatedly about pretty much the same thing? It sounds like you don't want a mature, cinematic game with a solid plug of realism and emotional trauma.

If that's the case, you may as well find another franchise to sink into because that's what's coming.

Driber
26th Jun 2014, 12:44
To address the therapy comment, we know Lara is on a journey. It wouldn't make sense for the whole game to revolve around therapy itself but if that was a key theme, lets say her "adventures" are the subject of her therapy sessions similar to how "Chronicles" was delivered then it could work.

Now this is a reaaaaaally good point. If TR10 was indeed set up like TRC, with the flashbacks telling the story and the player essentially playing the flashbacks, that could be really interesting.

So, daventry... don't tell me that you would still have a problem with it if it was done exactly like in TRC, because to your own admittance - Core 'executed it beautifully', right? ;)

And now that I think about it, that would actually perfectly go hand-in-hand with the TR10's description that Lara will be 'globe trotting', wouldn't it...

Lara's therapy sessions would form the "main hub" that connects Lara's different adventures together. She tells a story to her therapist, and then the player gets to play that flashback....

dun-dun-duuuuuunnnn :D

d1n0_xD
26th Jun 2014, 12:50
^ I got goosebumps :p That could be good if done well :D And maybe she could even hint at some events that happen later in the game that you'll notice when you replay the game :D

daventry
26th Jun 2014, 13:08
Now this is a reaaaaaally good point. If TR10 was indeed set up like TRC, with the flashbacks telling the story and the player essentially playing the flashbacks, that could be really interesting.

So, daventry... don't tell me that you would still have a problem with it if it was done exactly like in TRC, because to your own admittance - Core 'executed it beautifully', right? ;)

And now that I think about it, that would actually perfectly go hand-in-hand with the TR10's description that Lara will be 'globe trotting', wouldn't it...

Lara's therapy sessions would form the "main hub" that connects Lara's different adventures together. She tells a story to her therapist, and then the player gets to play that flashback....

dun-dun-duuuuuunnnn :DDO IT CRYSTAL, that would be Fantastic, we could even play as Young Lara Again. :flowers:

Make sure this Post by Driber gets Attention, forget the Thread, Seriously this could work and then in the end we see a Glimpse of TR3 where Lara says: We become what we're meant to be.

Just a minor question and i think this is addressed in the Comics witch i never read, but isent Lara's Adventures the First of being a TR on Yamatai. What exactly did Lara do before, since i thought she just finished Collage and then set of an a Expedition.

Metalrocks
27th Jun 2014, 01:42
Just a minor question and i think this is addressed in the Comics witch i never read, but isent Lara's Adventures the First of being a TR on Yamatai. What exactly did Lara do before, since i thought she just finished Collage and then set of an a Expedition.

she went traveling around the world with sam.
jhmplf_lara-2.JPG

daventry
27th Jun 2014, 07:21
Thanks Metal and i wonder why Lara is never seen in Shorts, even in the Comics she always wear Pants. :confused:

Tihocan
27th Jun 2014, 09:10
Thanks Metal and i wonder why Lara is never seen in Shorts, even in the Comics she always wear Pants. :confused:

Shorts are not practical. One would never go exploring in shorts because
- shorts do not protect your legs from incidental injury, such as branches and grazing on rocks
- you can't carry much in shorts - having to put everything (such as ammo) in your pack would be silly when you can wear a good pair of cargos.

Also, short shorts are very "hey, look at my legs and butt" and Lara does not strike me as that kind of girl.

daventry
27th Jun 2014, 09:18
Checking Lara's Legs and Butt was all over in the Trilogy, even Toby Gard who left the Franchise right after TR1 because he's Model was portrayed as a Sex Symbol dident even left right after TRL in witch Lara was portrayed as a Sex Bomb. :rolleyes:

d1n0_xD
27th Jun 2014, 09:34
Shorts are not a bad thing, but when it comes to realism, it's better to have pants, belts, jackets, with lots of pockets :) I don't know, in Underworld I never picked the shorts outfit, don't know why, pants were nicer, she even looked better in them, IMO :p

Jurre
27th Jun 2014, 10:50
Also, short shorts are very "hey, look at my legs and butt" and Lara does not strike me as that kind of girl.

90% of girls are walking around in hotpants during a hot summer, at least they did so in Austria and Italy... if that is society's norm then Lara 'not being that kind of girl' would mean she's a prude or insecure about her body. Only when the weather is very hot though: Yamatai was more like a temperate climate so it was appropriate that she wore long trousers.

True, short trousers don't offer protection against anything, but that's why I once suggested that she should be wearing knee pads for protection during climbing - a thin layer of fabric would not offer much protection during rockclimbing anyway...

daventry
27th Jun 2014, 11:08
Something like this, especially the fact that Lara slammed herself against a Rock Wall when she escaped the Bear to jump over a Chasm. I mean you would slice your knee cabs open.
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1184684223_1/MILITARY-ARMY-TACTICAL-AIRSOFT-TACTICAL-font-b-PANTS-b-font-TROUSERS-SWAT-font-b-KNEE-b.jpg

Tihocan
27th Jun 2014, 13:33
90% of girls are walking around in hotpants during a hot summer, at least they did so in Austria and Italy...

You have heat in Austria? :whistle:


if that is society's norm then Lara 'not being that kind of girl' would mean she's a prude or insecure about her body.


It is society's norm, particularly in places like the UK and Australia. If you're wearing shorts that barely extend past your underpants - and you're not at the beach - people will likely give you a funny look (or leering, depending on the looker...)
Heck, when I went to the UK people looked at me funny for not shaving :scratch:

Jurre
27th Jun 2014, 13:35
You have heat in Austria? :whistle:

You've never been to Austria in the middle of june, right?

Driber
27th Jun 2014, 14:03
Shorts are not practical. One would never go exploring in shorts because
- shorts do not protect your legs from incidental injury, such as branches and grazing on rocks

I go exploring in shorts for all the time.

Yeah, a thin layer of fabric may protect you from the odd scratch here and there, but for the kind of things Lara goes through she'd have to dress up in this:

width=200


- you can't carry much in shorts - having to put everything (such as ammo) in your pack would be silly when you can wear a good pair of cargos.

Show me one piece of equipment Lara had in TR9 that she wouldn't have been able to carry if she had shorts on...


Also, short shorts are very "hey, look at my legs and butt" and Lara does not strike me as that kind of girl.

First of all, no one except for you is talking about hot pants.

Second, Lara has been wearing shorts in the games for like 16+ years. And not once did she trot around in them to show off like you're describing. So you're right, Lara is not that kind of a girl, but she does wear shorts ;)


If you're wearing shorts that barely extend past your underpants - and you're not at the beach - people will likely give you a funny look (or leering, depending on the looker...)

Sounds to me you're going to rather prudish places then. Over here that is perfectly normal.


Heck, when I went to the UK people looked at me funny for not shaving :scratch:

Not shaving where?

Metalrocks
27th Jun 2014, 14:15
you still can explore in shorts but yes, if you are jumping all over the place then they are not very suitable. but i highly doubt that she will wear some tide shorts that she hardly can put anything in her pockets. :p
well, lets see if lara will wear shorts in the next game. depends on the location she will travel too.

Driber
27th Jun 2014, 14:22
you still can explore in shorts but yes, if you are jumping all over the place then they are not very suitable. but i highly doubt that she will wear some tide shorts that she hardly can put anything in her pockets. :p

Yeah you're right, it would be much better for Lara to wear long pants riddled with pocked filled with a million things dragging her down. Muuuuch better for jumping all over the place :p


well, lets see if lara will wear shorts in the next game. depends on the location she will travel too.

Exactly ;)

Metalrocks
27th Jun 2014, 14:28
Yeah you're right, it would be much better for Lara to wear long pants riddled with pocked filled with a million things dragging her down. Muuuuch better for jumping all over the place :p



Exactly ;)

:lol: i didnt mean it like she has to carry a battleship with her but generally a bit loose shorts that she can at least put some stuff in it. caring ammo, etc of course she would wear a ammo belt. easier to get the ammo out then fumbling around in your pockets until you find the damn clip. especially under fire.

Driber
27th Jun 2014, 14:37
of course she would wear a ammo belt. easier to get the ammo out then fumbling around in your pockets until you find the damn clip. especially under fire.

LMAO, again, thank you for helping me prove my point :lol:

a_big_house
27th Jun 2014, 14:46
Who needs pockets when you can have a backpack! :D

Driber
27th Jun 2014, 14:55
Who needs pockets when you can have a backpack! :D

Who needs a backpack when you can grab weapons out of thin air! :D

a_big_house
27th Jun 2014, 14:56
Who need weapons when you can use Sam as bait and run past everyone! :D

dark7angel
27th Jun 2014, 15:00
I really don't understand the aversion to Lara wearing shorts.

Sure, they don't protect your legs much, but let's be real, with the sort of stuff Lara does pants won't help much in that regard...

Driber
27th Jun 2014, 15:00
Who need weapons when you can use Sam as bait and run past everyone! :D

...but you need bait for Samsel to act as bait for the baddies.

Damn, I guess Lara needs some pockets, after all - for storing hamburgers.

:D

daventry
27th Jun 2014, 15:02
Who need weapons when you can use Sam as bait and run past everyone!


...but you need bait for Samsel to act as bait for the baddies.Hmm, would you excuse me for a moment to make a XPS Screen http://freeemoticonsandsmileys.com/emoticons/Evil%20Emoticons/evil%20thinker.gif

http://coachdawnwrites.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/excellent.jpg

Driber
27th Jun 2014, 15:06
Oh god, what did we put in his head now... :lol:

a_big_house
27th Jun 2014, 15:10
I really don't understand the aversion to Lara wearing shorts.

Sure, they don't protect your legs much, but let's be real, with the sort of stuff Lara does pants won't help much in that regard...
I know right! No one cares that Jonah wears shorts! But a girl!? Sexist people! :D

Oh god, what did we put in his head now... :lol:We?! You started it :cool: :lol:

Metalrocks
27th Jun 2014, 15:12
Oh god, what did we put in his head now... :lol:

cant be anything good :p

oh, glad that i could proof your point :D

daventry
27th Jun 2014, 16:42
Gentlemen, i give you YOUR IDEA :lol:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=2023048&postcount=73

Metalrocks
27th Jun 2014, 16:54
Gentlemen, i give you YOUR IDEA :lol:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=2023048&postcount=73

to pixelated to actually see anything.

Tihocan
27th Jun 2014, 22:58
You've never been to Austria in the middle of june, right?
Well, to be honest, I've never been to Austria. Would love to, it looks beautiful.
I just looked it up finding a really hot day there would be about 32ºC (89ºF) where here 40º would be the average top. (Some town in SA got 49º) Was an underhanded joke.


I go exploring in shorts for all the time... Yeah, a thin layer of fabric may protect you from the odd scratch here and there...

Like this?
width='300'
You're tougher than I am. There's no way I'd go wading through murky waters (leeches), sliding down stone (rock rash), trekking through rainforest (bull ants, spiders) in a pair of short shorts.



Show me one piece of equipment Lara had in TR9 that she wouldn't have been able to carry if she had shorts on...

width='300'


First of all, no one except for you is talking about hot pants.
Seems like it :scratch:
I thought the discussion was about the Lara Croft shorts.

Second, Lara has been wearing shorts in the games for like 16+ years. And not once did she trot around in them to show off like you're describing. So you're right, Lara is not that kind of a girl, but she does wear shorts ;)
True, but Lara was originally designed to be "exaggerated" in the same way that female armour in World of Warcraft is "stupidly exaggerated". Again, I was thinking about the short shorts, which I believe everyone else was not.


Sounds to me you're going to rather prudish places then. Over here that is perfectly normal.
Where's here?


Not shaving where?
:lol: My face, Driber, my face. I was in a small town and I went to the Costco, and everyone I passed looked at me like I was an alien.

Seriously though, I did not want to imply any form of slut-shaming, or "girls should cover up" ideals - I personally do not agree with such viewpoints. If I offended anyone I apologise.

Driber
28th Jun 2014, 10:48
Like this?
width='300'
You're tougher than I am.

Geez, what's your obsession with hot pants? :p Like I said before, no one except for you is talking about these kinds of shorts.

Something like this...

width=300

...would be totally fine for Lara. Maybe not for every single setting (she'd get quite cold in those on a mission to Antarctica :p) but you differently can't say that these are out of the question, period.


There's no way I'd go wading through murky waters (leeches),

In a fictional game setting, I can easily see how this would work really well as a gameplay element - have Lara wade through a leech infested water in shorts (no, NOT hot pants :p) and her health bar slowly depletes, thus encouraging the player to make his way out of the water fast.

Just like in the classic games where wading through ice water depleted Lara's health bar :)


sliding down stone (rock rash)

Plenty of professional rock climbers wear shorts. 'nuff said.


trekking through rainforest (bull ants, spiders)

In the most hospitable places on earth, for example a beautiful field of flowers, you can be faced by similar dangers - ticks.

I guess unless people wear full body covering clothing, and tuck in their pants legs tightly into their socks, everyone who has picnics in nature or just walking through a glassy field are being totally "unrealistic" and stupid, right...


width='300'

Alright, so tell me, how on earth is Lara going to stuff 20 of those huge clips into her cargo pants lower pockets?

Even if that was realistically possible, which I doubt, that would totally kill her agility. So how's that working out for your realism? :whistle:

Like MetalRocks said, Lara would wear an ammo belt to carry those, not stuffing them into her pants pockets. So ammo clips are no good argument against shorts.


Seems like it :scratch:
I thought the discussion was about the Lara Croft shorts.

And Lara has had many types of shorts. You're the one focused on the 'hot-pants' like shorts so much...


True, but Lara was originally designed to be "exaggerated" in the same way that female armour in World of Warcraft is "stupidly exaggerated".

What, so just because some things in the older games were "exaggerated" that automatically means we have to get rid of everything else that may remind some people of the older Lara?

If you can't play the new games without making negative associations with your gripes about old Lara, that's your business, but it's a bad idea to throw away the baby with the bath water.


Where's here?

In Holland for example. Walking around in what you call 'hot pants' in a city in the middle of summer isn't anything out of the ordinary, and you won't have to worry about getting weird looks.

Well, not unless you happen to walk through the Schilderswijk (a neighborhood in The Hague where a lot of orthodox Muslims live) but that's a whole nother discussion :whistle:


:lol: My face, Driber, my face. I was in a small town and I went to the Costco, and everyone I passed looked at me like I was an alien.

lol, smart-arse :p

FYI, it was a serious question. I was genuinely interested :)

Ah, well, yeah, of course... if you're in a small town, chances are that the people there are indeed still old-fashioned and/or prudish.

Tihocan
28th Jun 2014, 14:14
Something like this...
width=300
...
but you differently can't say that these are out of the question, period.

Yep, totally fine with that - like I said, totally misinterpreted the thread.


In a fictional game setting, I can easily see how this would work really well as a gameplay element - have Lara wade through a leech infested water in shorts (no, NOT hot pants :p) and her health bar slowly depletes, thus encouraging the player to make his way out of the water fast.

Get tha' salt!


In the most hospitable places on earth, for example a beautiful field of flowers, you can be faced by similar dangers - ticks.

I guess unless people wear full body covering clothing, and tuck in their pants legs tightly into their socks, everyone who has picnics in nature or just walking through a glassy field are being totally "unrealistic" and stupid, right...

I never said that, and I don't generally call people stupid unless they do stuff like drive drunk or abuse children.
It's about density. You go to a place where you may get a few grass ticks, ok whatever. You go to a jungle or even heavy forest setting then it begins to pose a threat, a real threat.


Alright, so tell me, how on earth is Lara going to stuff 20 of those huge clips into her cargo pants lower pockets?

"Show me one piece of equipment Lara had in TR9 that she wouldn't have been able to carry if she had shorts on..." :cool:


If you can't play the new games without making negative associations with your gripes about old Lara, that's your business...

Woah, hey! That's not fair! I grew up with Lara as my idol, short shorts and all. I'd play and love her if she bravely took on the world in a frick'n hessian sack.
I merely put forth that if, in the heavily targeted Western world, people would no longer take her seriously if she wore short-shorts which we've established I bloody well got it wrong, ok? :(


In Holland for example.

As a man of Dutch blood, this makes me smile. The people of the Nederland are (for the most part*) some of the most accepting people I've ever known. Indeed, they also don't seem to hold back with an opinion!
(most part = not my Oma, who would have a fit if she saw my sister wearing short shorts!)



lol, smart-arse :p
FYI, it was a serious question. I was genuinely interested :)
Ah, well, yeah, of course... if you're in a small town, chances are that the people there are indeed still old-fashioned and/or prudish.
See, that's the thing. As a guy from Brisbane, people would possibly have a bit of a smirk at someone with short-shorts (I know, shut up!) but an unshaven face wouldn't get a second look.
There, I was almost an outcast!

Driber
28th Jun 2014, 15:55
Get tha' salt!

Say what now? :scratch:


I never said that, and I don't generally call people stupid unless they do stuff like drive drunk or abuse children.
It's about density. You go to a place where you may get a few grass ticks, ok whatever. You go to a jungle or even heavy forest setting then it begins to pose a threat, a real threat.

See, this is why I used the tick example - they are real threats. One bite of those nasty little buggers and you can get severely ill, possibly even die if not treated well.


"Show me one piece of equipment Lara had in TR9 that she wouldn't have been able to carry if she had shorts on..." :cool:

Okay, I'm really not getting the point you're trying to make by re-quoting me. Can you explain?


Woah, hey! That's not fair! I grew up with Lara as my idol, short shorts and all. I'd play and love her if she bravely took on the world in a frick'n hessian sack.
I merely put forth that if, in the heavily targeted Western world, people would no longer take her seriously if she wore short-shorts which we've established I bloody well got it wrong, ok? :(

Okay, okay, you were strictly talking about short shorts and I'm sorry for making a wrong assumption about your views on the old games. But can you really blame me, when you phrased it as if you were the one thinking those things? :)

Anyway, the "Lara wouldn't be taken seriously" argument I don't really accept as a good reason to banish even those short shorts that Lara wore in some of the games.

They could still very well work in certain situations:

width=600

No reasonably thinking person in Western society would look at this woman for example and go "OMG that is so unrealistic and comical, I just cannot take her serious for wearing an outfit like this".

Sure, some tumblr feminists would have a field day if Lara would have this kind of outfit in an upcoming game, but who really takes those extremists seriously :whistle:


As a man of Dutch blood, this makes me smile. The people of the Nederland are (for the most part*) some of the most accepting people I've ever known. Indeed, they also don't seem to hold back with an opinion!
(most part = not my Oma, who would have a fit if she saw my sister wearing short shorts!)

Ha, no, we certainly don't shy away from giving our opinion :D

Yeah, with a grandmother it's pretty much expected that they would give someone in short shorts a funny look, heh. Though I'm happy to say that those stereotypical prudish grandmothers are certainly not the rule. Especially in (bigger) cities, even the attitudes of grandmothers are way more liberal than they used to be.

My own grandmother is a prime example of this. Believe it or not, she even managed to make me embarrassed with her open-mindedness :nut:


See, that's the thing. As a guy from Brisbane, people would possibly have a bit of a smirk at someone with short-shorts (I know, shut up!) but an unshaven face wouldn't get a second look.
There, I was almost an outcast!

Wait, so you were talking about getting funny looks for being a guy and wearing short shorts? I'm a bit confused now.

And you were serious about the unshaven face? I thought you were talking about an unshaven bikini-line or armpits or something, and thought that you were giving me a smart-ass joke about an unshaven face, lol.

Tihocan
28th Jun 2014, 22:26
Say what now? :scratch:
Salt is highly effective on leeches.



Okay, I'm really not getting the point you're trying to make by re-quoting me. Can you explain?

You said one piece of equipment in shorts, I was being a smartass.



Anyway, the "Lara wouldn't be taken seriously" argument I don't really accept as a good reason to banish even those short shorts that Lara wore in some of the games.

No reasonably thinking person in Western society would look at this woman for example and go "OMG that is so unrealistic and comical, I just cannot take her serious for wearing an outfit like this".

Well, ok that's fair. I may be pessimistic, but I don't consider society to be reasonable. I mean, just look at the rape and therapy themes - people become quite ridiculous when someone gets an idea in their head.


Wait, so you were talking about getting funny looks for being a guy and wearing short shorts? I'm a bit confused now.
And you were serious about the unshaven face? I thought you were talking about an unshaven bikini-line or armpits or something, and thought that you were giving me a smart-ass joke about an unshaven face, lol.
:lol: No, not short shorts, just unshaven. I was honestly quite uncomfortable, and it wasn't until my father in law (who was living there at the time) said it was my hairy face. I was dumbfounded!

daventry
29th Jun 2014, 07:27
Well since we've gone waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy Off Topic with Shorts, heres why its a bad idea to crawl with Shorts. :p

You can litterly crawl your knees off, thus no medicine is going to fix that. :tongue2:

Metalrocks
29th Jun 2014, 08:02
Well since we've gone waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy Off Topic with Shorts, heres why its a bad idea to crawl with Shorts. :p

You can litterly crawl your knees off, thus no medicine is going to fix that. :tongue2:

http://s27.postimg.org/79s21gddv/crawl_your_knees_off.jpg

no offense but its just to small to see really whats with lara. but i do get your message.

daventry
29th Jun 2014, 08:10
Sorry, it was an Old Render i made in witch you can see the bad quality, thus Lara is bending down where she sees that she has no knee caps in witch you can see the Bone sticking out. :p

Driber
29th Jun 2014, 09:51
@Daventry and MetalRocks: Guys, can you please use the THUMB code for posting/quoting large images? I already asked both of you before...


Salt is highly effective on leeches.

Would be difficult to apply while wading, though :p :D


Well, ok that's fair. I may be pessimistic, but I don't consider society to be reasonable. I mean, just look at the rape and therapy themes - people become quite ridiculous when someone gets an idea in their head.

Well if we're leaving everything out that might possibly get mocked on the internet, there would be no game left to speak of, lol.

I don't think you would have wanted CD to take out that Vlad scene just because some idiots on the web tried to turn it into a 'controversy' (correct me if I'm wrong, though) and I've also seen you post positively about the therapy thing, so I don't understand why you would have a different attitude when it comes to what Lara wears.

Isn't it all the same principle, really?


:lol: No, not short shorts, just unshaven. I was honestly quite uncomfortable, and it wasn't until my father in law (who was living there at the time) said it was my hairy face. I was dumbfounded!

Right, okay, I'm fully up to speed now, haha.

So I'm curious, what did your father in law say? Why was your unshaven face getting so much attention in that particular town?


Well since we've gone waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy Off Topic with Shorts, heres why its a bad idea to crawl with Shorts. :p

You can litterly crawl your knees off, thus no medicine is going to fix that. :tongue2:

width='100'

Pfffsssttt, crawl 5 minutes with long pants and your kneecaps will look the same :p

pidipidi39
29th Jun 2014, 11:08
Well since we've gone waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy Off Topic with Shorts, heres why its a bad idea to crawl with Shorts. :p

You can litterly crawl your knees off, thus no medicine is going to fix that. :tongue2:


Waaah that made me cringe ****

Tihocan
29th Jun 2014, 12:46
Would be difficult to apply while wading, though :p :D
Haha, very funny. It's for when you get out of the swamp and wonder how the hair on your leg got so thicOMG THEY'RE LEECHES!


I don't think you would have wanted CD to take out that Vlad scene just because some idiots on the web tried to turn it into a 'controversy' (correct me if I'm wrong, though) and I've also seen you post positively about the therapy thing, so I don't understand why you would have a different attitude when it comes to what Lara wears.

Isn't it all the same principle, really?

Sure, but with that logic, Lara could wear a corset and fishnets and everyone should expect that to fit with her character - yes?

The principle for me is context - believe me, I would love to see an unlockable daisy dukes classic Lara - but (and correct me if I'm wrong), I've rendered Lara in my head as not someone who would go her legs about because, in all serious, that's what the pants were designed to do.
Not because she'd prude, not because she's not confident with how she looks, but because it's [I]unnecessary. It's a stretch for my immersion capacitors.
i.e. Vlad the Rapist = wholly believable, Lara doing backflips in daisy dukes = ?

I'm fine with everyone disagreeing with me on that. I would just be... surprised, I guess.
At the end of the day, they honestly could have put her in anything at the start of the game, such as underpants, because getting shipwrecked doesn't wait for you to get dressed. Heh, could imagine the response to that one?


So I'm curious, what did your father in law say? Why was your unshaven face getting so much attention in that particular town?

Something about Wiltshire(?) Heights being better than Wiltshire and I should've shaved, even for the Tesco. :rolleyes:


Pfffsssttt, crawl 5 minutes with long pants and your kneecaps will look the same :p

Yeah, not even long pants are going to prevent that sort of grazing... *shudders*

Metalrocks
29th Jun 2014, 14:11
@Daventry and MetalRocks: Guys, can you please use the THUMB code for posting/quoting large images? I already asked both of you before...



me:scratch:??? when i upload a pic i always use your image uploader. didnt know i can use it as well for quoting to posts.

Driber
29th Jun 2014, 15:04
Haha, very funny. It's for when you get out of the swamp and wonder how the hair on your leg got so thicOMG THEY'RE LEECHES!

Ugh, thanks for that mental image! :D


Sure, but with that logic, Lara could wear a corset and fishnets and everyone should expect that to fit with her character - yes?

If Lara is the kind of person who likes walking around in a corset and fishnets, then yes, everyone is expected to accept that.

If people are going to go as far as treating Lara as a real person, then by the mere rejection of any type of outfit they are participating in that 'slut-shaming' culture.

If Lara was Julie from The Maxx, no one in their right mind would be complaining about the trampy outfit she wears:

http://www.strangekidsclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/julie-winters.jpg

So if Lara was 'that kind of girl', she really is that kind of girl. Anyone who automatically connects clothes to a perceived personality, are just.... well, prejudice.


The principle for me is context - believe me, I would love to see an unlockable daisy dukes classic Lara - but (and correct me if I'm wrong), I've rendered Lara in my head as not someone who would go her legs about because, in all serious, that's what the pants were designed to do.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like the exact same prudes that were judging [I]you for your looks. Kind of ironic if you ask me.


Not because she'd prude, not because she's not confident with how she looks, but because it's unnecessary. It's a stretch for my immersion capacitors.

How on earth did you survive all those old games, if seeing Lara in short shorts was a 'stretch for your immersion capacitors'.


i.e. Vlad the Rapist = wholly believable, Lara doing backflips in daisy dukes = ?

So now you're throwing backflips in the mix of "unbelievable'? So I guess you had a really hard time believing all those amazing stunts she performed in TR9 then, right? Oh wait, all those acrobatics in TR9 were perfectly believable because Lara wore long pants. Yeah, that totally makes sense now :p

BTW, Vlad wasn't a rapist damnit!


At the end of the day, they honestly could have put her in anything at the start of the game, such as underpants, because getting shipwrecked doesn't wait for you to get dressed. Heh, could imagine the response to that one?

Two words: Heavy Rain.

'nuff said :cool:


me:scratch:??? when i upload a pic i always use your image uploader. didnt know i can use it as well for quoting to posts.

Yes, you. 3 days ago (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=2016126&highlight=THUMB#post2016126). Guess you missed it ;)

Ah, you misunderstand. I'm not talking about the image uploader, but about the [ THUMB ] code. That one is for on-the-fly shrinking images on the forum that are hosted elsewhere. Read this http://forums.eidosgames.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#thumb :)

Tihocan
30th Jun 2014, 00:23
...
then by the mere rejection of any type of outfit they are participating in that 'slut-shaming' culture.
...
Anyone who automatically connects clothes to a perceived personality, are just.... well, prejudice.
...
Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like the exact same prudes that were judging you for your looks. Kind of ironic if you ask me.

Wow. Thanks for that.
Next time Arnold Schwarzenegger kills a thousand bad guys in a tutu, I'll remember you said the above and feel ashamed to think it's not above board.

If you're going to tell me there's absolutely no connection between a person's clothing and their personality, then I'm going to think you're living in a bubble, to be honest.
I will not judge a person by the way they dress, but I will make an educated guess about how they may dress from any knowledge of their personality. If I'm surprised, then so be it.
Here's a thought - I bet it doesn't go the other way. Put a guy in a dress and the world will think he is some kind of whacko - but that's ok, because he's a guy.

prude pruːd/ noun a person who is or claims to be easily shocked by matters relating to sex or nudity.
I have no problem with sex, nudity or whatever. If it makes sense to the scene and isn't there "just because". Don't call me a prude, because that's just a BS assumption.


How on earth did you survive all those old games, if seeing Lara in short shorts was a 'stretch for your immersion capacitors'.
Eh, I was young. I don't remember. Maybe the content held me.


So now you're throwing backflips in the mix of "unbelievable'? ... Yeah, that totally makes sense now :p
Sure, why not? If she would wear fishnets, then she can also probably do Wushu from ten years of training under Jet Li, because I obviously don't know a damn thing about people.


BTW, Vlad wasn't a rapist damnit!

[Edit by Driber: Vlad convo moved to dedicated thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=115168&page=27).]

Metalrocks
30th Jun 2014, 06:20
Yes, you. 3 days ago (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=2016126&highlight=THUMB#post2016126). Guess you missed it ;)

Ah, you misunderstand. I'm not talking about the image uploader, but about the [ THUMB ] code. That one is for on-the-fly shrinking images on the forum that are hosted elsewhere. Read this http://forums.eidosgames.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#thumb :)

not really. just didnt read it entirely since i knew when posting pics, we should use the uploader to make large pics smaller. but thumb nailing to a comment, that is something i never use. i try to use it the next time. so when i understood the instructions correctly, i have to enter width=150 between the thumb brackets.

Driber
30th Jun 2014, 12:59
Wow. Thanks for that.

Is that how you're reading my posts? Taking out the worst sounding bits and putting them together to create a completely different context? :(


Next time Arnold Schwarzenegger kills a thousand bad guys in a tutu, I'll remember you said the above and feel ashamed to think it's not above board.

Forget Arnold, how about The Joker? That guy actually would wear a tutu while killing thousands of good guys, heh.


If you're going to tell me there's absolutely no connection between a person's clothing and their personality, then I'm going to think you're living in a bubble, to be honest.

No, that's a straw man argument. I never said that there is absolutely no connection between a person's clothing and their personality. What I saying is that you can't automatically infer a personality from a person's clothing. Quite a difference there.

For example, if you see a woman on the corner of a street in a slutty outfit, does that automatically mean she's promiscuous? Or a prostitute? No.


I will not judge a person by the way they dress, but I will make an educated guess about how they may dress from any knowledge of their personality. If I'm surprised, then so be it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that if Lara would wear short short she would be doing that to "show off her body, like 'look at me, boys!'"?

If so, then I think you are prejudiced and stereotyping women. If not, and I misunderstood you, then we have no issue... and then I don't know why we're even talking about it, lol.


Here's a thought - I bet it doesn't go the other way. Put a guy in a dress and the world will think he is some kind of whacko - but that's ok, because he's a guy.

Uhm, no?

See my Joker example. Of course people would consider him a wacko.


prude pruːd/ noun a person who is or claims to be easily shocked by matters relating to sex or nudity.
I have no problem with sex, nudity or whatever. If it makes sense to the scene and isn't there "just because".

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prude

prude
[prood]
noun
a person who is excessively proper or modest in speech, conduct, dress, etc.


Don't call me a prude, because that's just a BS assumption.

I didn't call you a prude. I said that to me you sounded like a prude regarding one particular sentence of yours that I was quoting, where you said something like "pants were made to cover up your legs". Well okay, not just that particular sentence alone, I said it also in connection with other things you were saying earlier about Lara having to cover herself up when it's not 'necessary' for her to show bare legs.

I'm sorry if that offended you, but can you really blame me for thinking that those things sound kinda prudish?

I mean, what do you think then of all those other fictional characters that show a bit of skin when they technically don't need to?

Should Wonder Woman give up her iconic look...

http://latimesherocomplex.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/wonderwoman.jpg

...and go around walking in long pants just because "it's unnecessary"?


Eh, I was young. I don't remember. Maybe the content held me.

Or maybe because you were younger and therefore more free-thinking and not yet having been influenced by modern social rules about 'indecency' and not yet having been conditioned to think that "showing leg = sexism"?


Sure, why not? If she would wear fishnets, then she can also probably do Wushu from ten years of training under Jet Li, because I obviously don't know a damn thing about people.

C'mon dude, don't be like that. Despite the jokes and light-hearted sarcasm (which we're both doing) I'm trying to have a serious discussion here. I'm really dumbstruck why you're implying that the clothing Lara wears makes her acrobatic stunts any less 'believable'.

If Lara's doing backflips in cargo pants or in shorts, how on earth does that make a difference regarding her ability to do those kinds of acrobatics? I really don't follow you. Wouldn't short actually make it easier to do those kinds of moves? You know, less clothing to inhibit your agility and all....?


not really. just didnt read it entirely

So you did misunderstand what I was asking you because you didn't read my post fully. Right, glad we cleared that up ;)


i try to use it the next time. so when i understood the instructions correctly, i have to enter width=150 between the thumb brackets.

Cheers :)

Yeah, width=150 would be a good one if you're quoting large images and it's not necessary that the readers of your post see the full image again.

Or instead of doing it manually, you could simply run the entire post through this tool (http://driber.net/os/forumthumb), which will do it automatically :)

Metalrocks
30th Jun 2014, 13:10
Cheers :)

Yeah, width=150 would be a good one if you're quoting large images and it's not necessary that the readers of your post see the full image again.

Or instead of doing it manually, you could simply run the entire post through this tool (http://driber.net/os/forumthumb), which will do it automatically :)

ok, maybe you can add this URL link in to the advanced message section like you have a link for the image uploader. that would make it easier for everyone. :)
at least for me it would be. :whistle:

Driber
30th Jun 2014, 13:21
ok, maybe you can add this URL link in to the advanced message section like you have a link for the image uploader. that would make it easier for everyone. :)

There's a dedicated icon http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/thumb_button_image.png for the thumb code in the advance editor and still people don't see it :whistle:

Well at least I have the tool in my sig always :)


at least for me it would be. :whistle:

Bookmark it :)

Or better yet, use the awesome bar in your browser. Best way, IMO.

Tihocan
30th Jun 2014, 14:16
I never said that there is absolutely no connection between a person's clothing and their personality. What I saying is that you can't automatically infer a personality from a person's clothing. Quite a difference there.

For example, if you see a woman on the corner of a street in a slutty outfit, does that automatically mean she's promiscuous? Or a prostitute? No.


http://i.imgur.com/FakqVGK.jpg


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that if Lara would wear short short she would be doing that to "show off her body, like 'look at me, boys!'"? If not, then we have no issue and I don't know why we're talking about it, lol.

That is how it would appear, to a person of the general public, who are viewing the material. In creative writing, it is extremely dangerous for the writer to step out of a norm when describing a character, unless that is the intention.

Take the new trailer for example. What do you think of Lara in the first twenty seconds of the video?


See my Joker example. Of course people would consider him a wacko.

:rolleyes:
Thus, I would like to know what you would think of a movie with Arnie trudging about with a rolling gatling gun - in a mankini. Joker is batplop crazy, and as it stands, the tutu brings on that image.


a person who is excessively proper or modest in speech, conduct, dress, etc.
Oh, yeah, well that's not me. Just ask my friends (please don't)


Lara having to cover herself up when it's not 'necessary' for her to show bare legs.
Choose to. Which leads to:

I mean, what do you think then of all those other fictional characters that show a bit of skin when they technically don't need to?
I dunno - why would a girl wear short pants in cold weather? I can't understand why people wear ridiculously uncomfortable clothing.


Should Wonder Woman give up her iconic look...and go around walking in long pants just because "it's unnecessary"?

No, because she is impervious to cold and... leeches. If I see someone wearing something like short pants either on a ship in torrential downpour or in an inhospitable jungle, I have to question their mental state.


Or maybe because you were younger and therefore more free-thinking and not yet having been influenced by modern social rules about 'indecency' and not yet having been conditioned to think that "showing leg = sexism"?

Yes, possibly. Or I was a dirty little teenager and thought it was great, along with the pointy boobs and waggle walk.


C'mon dude, don't be like that... I'm really dumbstruck why you're implying that the clothing Lara wears makes her acrobatic stunts any less 'believable'.

Ok, I haven't explained myself well.
If you don't write a character with attention to the detail they outwardly possess, then anything goes.
Like it or not, it has been proven that humans make a subconscious judgement within seconds of seeing a person - based on norms and life experience - as to what they are likely to be. In effect, the "first impressions last" saying. In creative writing, these seconds are crucial to portraying a character as a) in film it's very difficult to reverse this image and b) you don't want to spend paragraphs writing about them only to have to properly inverse them later.

For example "he stood in the shadows, cigarette in mouth, his head bowed so that none could see his face"
Immediately you think this guy's a smoker, shady, up to something. If he were to wander out into the street and suddenly give a kid a balloon and say "hey, I'm not a smoker, why would you think that!" the reader would drop your book in a second.

Metalrocks
30th Jun 2014, 15:33
There's a dedicated icon http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/thumb_button_image.png for the thumb code in the advance editor and still people don't see it :whistle:

Well at least I have the tool in my sig always :)



Bookmark it :)

Or better yet, use the awesome bar in your browser. Best way, IMO.

actually i did try this icon out and it didnt work. instead of having a small pic, i just had a long link. so im not sure what i did wrong here. was never good with this kind of stuff. :rolleyes:

well, this time i bookmarked it. this should be easier for me to use.

also, what bar are you referring too?

Driber
1st Jul 2014, 07:46
also, what bar are you referring too?

When you start typing in the address bar, a list of recently visited pages pop up which you then can choose from. In firefox it's called the awesome bar, in other browsers it's probably called different.

So using the awesome bar it's for me simply a matter of typing "f" there and the forum thumb tool pops up as the first hit, as I'm often using it :)

Metalrocks
1st Jul 2014, 10:19
i see now. thanks driber.

BridgetFisher
2nd Jul 2014, 08:27
I liked Sam and would like to see more of her in the next Tomb Raider game.

BridgetFisher
1st Aug 2014, 20:38
When it comes to gaming, I would also prefer a more fun and action packed game instead of a depressing game. The trailer does make it look like the devs might be going the whole lets be edgy route with Lara Croft. The world is serious enough I like my games to be fun and more upbeat.

d1n0_xD
1st Aug 2014, 22:11
^ :(

Metalrocks
2nd Aug 2014, 08:26
When it comes to gaming, I would also prefer a more fun and action packed game instead of a depressing game. The trailer does make it look like the devs might be going the whole lets be edgy route with Lara Croft. The world is serious enough I like my games to be fun and more upbeat.

sometimes when you try to tell a story you want it to be taken seriously, you have to tell it in a darker way like:
max payne series
spec ops the line
mass effect series
half life 2

and all of these games are fun too. i lost count how many times i have played ME, HL or even MP. if not told that way, no one would care for the story.

i would say that legend and underworld are also more mature and darker with lara looking for her mother and in the end she even shot her.

otherwise, play serious sam 2. full of colour and jokes and brainless over the top fun.

d1n0_xD
2nd Aug 2014, 10:28
I want to play Max Payne 3, but man, that game is HUGE XD

Metalrocks
2nd Aug 2014, 12:15
I want to play Max Payne 3, but man, that game is HUGE XD

tell me about it. 35gb and surely requires some top notch hardware. good thing i got my self a new pc back then so i was able to play it on max settings.
MP3 comes on 4 dvds and it took me 30min to install it. but compared to titanfall, MP3 is nothing. TF requires 50gb of HDD. :eek:
good thing origin allowed pre download. so in a day, it was on my pc and could start right away when the countdown ended. good thing origin downloads faster than steam.

The_Hylden
2nd Aug 2014, 13:40
Max Payne 3 doesn't feel like the others. It took little bits of the Payne world and characteristics of Payne and ramped them up, basically making cliches out of them. Lots of over-the-top everything. Looked and felt more like a GTA game.

More blood and guts in that one didn't equal darker, or only superficially. Stories can be made well without having to go grim-dark, too, in order to get recognized. It's a shame that excessive dark and gritty has now been equated to more serious and realistic in this day and age.

Metalrocks
2nd Aug 2014, 14:26
lol. didnt feel like a GTA game to me. it sure was different from the setting but the story as such was still dark. but thats what MP is known for; its dark, mature and gritty atmosphere.
i think the location was a good choice. instead of going again in a night time, snowy cold new york.
the gore of course was really strong. even i had some "woa" moments.

The_Hylden
3rd Aug 2014, 01:32
It's known for being dark. Again, this third attempt just felt superficially dark, more than substantively; more than psychologically mixed in as before. The games prior were Noir stories. That's a specific deadpan drama that this lost here. The only attempt at it is in Payne's monologues, but they don't get it. The story went into shaky-cam stylistic action over anything dark and foreboding. Even Payne's pain was turned into a cliche just to show, rather than to delve much into. The menu screen, and subsequent cutscenes that showed him downing dramatic shot after shot, pill after pill -- it's all over-the-top. The rest of the cast were introduced like GTA cutscenes, with split screen wipes, slow motion holds with their italicized names flashing on the screen; the flashy Miami Vice way they acted and the club type mob scenes. That's what I meant. Even when we get back to New York/Jersey time, the mobsters there are utterly laid out as cliche and curse-word-spitting props, an excuse only for Payne to shoot them all.

Also lost were the dream sequences that messed with Payne, and your, head, and the break from the droning darkness with the ironies of the TV shows you could watch, or even the odd and off ways the bums and residents in apartments acted. Episodes of Noir New York, for instance, that mimicked in absurd fashion what Payne was actually going through, or the lunacy of Lords and Ladies. Payne must've thought the whole world either went mad, or everything was an extension of his own breakdown, lol

Anyway, I wished I enjoyed it more. The beginning made me think I might, but the longer it went on the more it felt just out of place and wrong.

Metalrocks
3rd Aug 2014, 04:35
i see now what you mean.

i do agree with the shaking camera and this colour effects were annoying. i wished there was an option to turn it off. also agree that certain things we had in the first 2 games were missing as well, like the tv episodes. missed captain baseball batball boy (or what ever the name was). also a little downfall were the missing nightmares. i was hoping to see them as well. the flashbacks were a nice idea in part 3, like him standing in front of his families grave. but then followed with shooting your way through. but, it did explain why he ended up in south america and took the job there. but this sure could have been explained with less shooting.

but never the less, i enjoyed the game and played it on every difficulty to unlock the cheats. but if i have to chose my favorite MP title, its clearly MP2. that is the best MP ever and just pretty much everything is spot on with the story, setting, the romance, flashbacks and gameplay mechanic.

Gitb97
3rd Aug 2014, 15:02
What human being could go through what Lara did and not need a great deal of therapy. It should be in the game frequent if its going to, if not then thats that

The_Hylden
3rd Aug 2014, 15:10
but if i have to chose my favorite MP title, its clearly MP2. that is the best MP ever and just pretty much everything is spot on with the story, setting, the romance, flashbacks and gameplay mechanic.

Yes, 2 is the best, down to the amazing rendition of the theme music. I can't help but hear it as the quintessential Noir-type music piece. 3 did add a couple of nice mechanics. I've recently enjoyed a run through of Max Payne 2 using a mod on PC where they used the model in 3 of Payne, texture and sound upgrades, and some of the mechanics, like one final shot before you die to return some health and continue on fighting.

For Tomb Raider, while it will be interesting to see how they tackle the emotional scars from the previous game, I do hope that they have more adventure this time, something to make us feel that there's good in her world and that she winds up being a Tomb Raider for better reasons than they're currently suggesting (more she does what she used to hate only because she's enveloped herself in a world of pain, or something), not that she's some cold, green beret soldier in the archeological wars, and the world is filled with nothing but grimness and death. While I enjoyed the 2013 game and have praised it, it did not wind up feeling like Tomb Raider. What they were going for in some harsh situation where she has to grow and mature to survive got lost somewhere, and it just became mostly a one-woman revenge quest against an army occult, with every turn laced with violence and blood, and her pain. It got to be far too much.

Anyway, I hope they get back on a better all-around track this time.

Metalrocks
4th Aug 2014, 02:31
Yes, 2 is the best, down to the amazing rendition of the theme music. I can't help but hear it as the quintessential Noir-type music piece. 3 did add a couple of nice mechanics. I've recently enjoyed a run through of Max Payne 2 using a mod on PC where they used the model in 3 of Payne, texture and sound upgrades, and some of the mechanics, like one final shot before you die to return some health and continue on fighting.

For Tomb Raider, while it will be interesting to see how they tackle the emotional scars from the previous game, I do hope that they have more adventure this time, something to make us feel that there's good in her world and that she winds up being a Tomb Raider for better reasons than they're currently suggesting (more she does what she used to hate only because she's enveloped herself in a world of pain, or something), not that she's some cold, green beret soldier in the archeological wars, and the world is filled with nothing but grimness and death. While I enjoyed the 2013 game and have praised it, it did not wind up feeling like Tomb Raider. What they were going for in some harsh situation where she has to grow and mature to survive got lost somewhere, and it just became mostly a one-woman revenge quest against an army occult, with every turn laced with violence and blood, and her pain. It got to be far too much.

Anyway, I hope they get back on a better all-around track this time.

never really use mods. when i try to use them, i screw up that affects the whole game. i dont know why i suck so much at it.
sounds cool though but i still prefer the original i know and love.

about TR
i also hope there will be less shooting and enemies. i also enjoyed the game but i also want more exploration and puzzle solving then shooting my way through. i rather want lara to struggle with nature alone. this alone can effect her mentally. and if she has to confront enemies, that we have an option to avoid them. in other words, be stealthy.

daventry
5th Aug 2014, 09:06
Edit: Did you want to shift all these posts to that other thread, so we don't continue to hijack this one?:thumb::thumb::thumb:

Driber
5th Aug 2014, 13:42
Vlad convo moved here (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=115168&page=29).