PDA

View Full Version : Less cheaty enemy AI (No more xray please!)



Dex Luther
23rd Jun 2014, 03:09
Can we get more intelligent less cheaty AI in this next game? AI without xray vision would be a great start. In TR2013 enemies know where you're hiding at all times. There's no point to the cover system really if each time you switch places the enemy will just rush you and/or lob Molotov exactly where you are even if there's no way they could have seen where you went. Unless they have xray vision!

In the video below, watch as the shots from the LMG hit the wall and follow Lara even though there's no way the gunner could know she's there.
MH_srTKWweU

Scion's_Eye
23rd Jun 2014, 03:40
Yeah that was a bit... unrealistic. Maybe they should take a peek at Ubisoft's AI system in Watch_Dogs, it serious does exactly that. Enemies lose track of you, try to find you, but you can sneak away as long as you use your ears.

Metalrocks
23rd Jun 2014, 08:32
true, that is an issue in this game. once you are seen they are all over you. we have i think something similar in the wishlist if you care to share your wish in to it. ;)

d1n0_xD
23rd Jun 2014, 09:48
I agree, I want to be able to sneak-hide if they saw me... And if I alerted one guard, and killed him, if other guards didn't see me, they should look for me, but don't automatically know where I am :)

Tecstar70
23rd Jun 2014, 10:11
+1

daventry
23rd Jun 2014, 12:45
Something like Skyrim but with more Intelligent AI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHMB3UAXCiI

Valenka
23rd Jun 2014, 12:48
Something like Skyrim but with more Intelligent AI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHMB3UAXCiI

Um...Skyrim's AI know exactly where you are too. Unless your sneak skill is high enough to unlock a perk that makes enemies lose track of you if you run and hide.

dark7angel
23rd Jun 2014, 13:30
I completely agree!


I agree, I want to be able to sneak-hide if they saw me... And if I alerted one guard, and killed him, if other guards didn't see me, they should look for me, but don't automatically know where I am :)

And this too. :thumb:

Metalrocks
23rd Jun 2014, 15:31
I agree, I want to be able to sneak-hide if they saw me... And if I alerted one guard, and killed him, if other guards didn't see me, they should look for me, but don't automatically know where I am :)

pretty much like in splinter cell. still find it funny though and find a body, search around but cant find me, and they go back to normal like nothing happened :lol:

pidipidi39
23rd Jun 2014, 18:00
+1.

Error96_
23rd Jun 2014, 22:20
I thought it was strange how the enemies tracked Lara. I wouldn't want it that you could run back out of an area and then enter the area again and they are just patrolling out in the open but it would be better if you could lose enemies by hiding.

Tihocan
24th Jun 2014, 00:02
Sniper Elite 2 does this well also - in fact it shows you an outline of yourself in the last known position (I wouldn't want this in TR, but it shows the engine)

Rai
24th Jun 2014, 01:49
Uh this was annoying. I understand the game encourages movement, but I'm there hiding, scoping the area making a plan which promptly goes awry as one guy spots you from freaking miles off and suddenly you're surrounded. And that dynamite always finds you. I thought perhaps it was my inexperience with this kind of combat, but when it continues to happen it gets on your wick :p. I'd appreciate it if hiding meant you're hidden unless you foul up and stealth meant stealth...and more chances to hide and be stealthy would be nice.

Driber
24th Jun 2014, 12:36
It kinda sounds to me that some people would like to have their cake and eat it, too :whistle:

On one side the game shouldn't be too easy and "hand holding", but on the other hand the AI should be more realistic and give the player a bigger advantage over the enemies...

a_big_house
24th Jun 2014, 12:40
Well what else are you gonna do with the cake after you have it? :p

Driber
24th Jun 2014, 12:54
Well what else are you gonna do with the cake after you have it? :p

Poop it out and stop complaining it's gone? :p

a_big_house
24th Jun 2014, 12:55
Well you have to eat it first, so :p

Driber
24th Jun 2014, 13:05
Well you have to eat it first, so :p

And that's what 'having it' is :p

a_big_house
24th Jun 2014, 13:06
Oh... I thought having it was just like holding it or it being on your plate...

Rai
24th Jun 2014, 13:48
It kinda sounds to me that some people would like to have their cake and eat it, too :whistle:

On one side the game shouldn't be too easy and "hand holding", but on the other hand the AI should be more realistic and give the player a bigger advantage over the enemies...


So you didn't find it odd, even ridiculous that a stealthy/hidden position pretty much meant nothing? I'm not talking about Lara being static for several minutes while she scopes the area, but mere moments. And there starts off with one guy out of just a few in the immediate area spotting her and within seconds this spawns a whole army (it felt like). I think , sure if your chosen hiding place is in a poor position which can be easily seen from above or you're in danger of enemies coming in from behind, then it would make more sense to be spotted especially in highly inhabited places such as Shanty Town. There really were times when I felt it shouldn't have been that easy to spot Lara, if you've found a place with optimal advantage. And enemies from far off really shouldn't be able to hit their mark from a great distance. I mean dynamite sticks finding Lara's exact location and within seconds of Lara changing position. It's just mad :p.

And you're right a game shouldn't be too easy and hand holdy. TR'13's hardest parts were the combat (for me). The hand holdy parts seemed to be for traversal and puzzles that weren't difficult anyway.

In Rise, I'd just appreciate the chance to either go around enemies entirely stealthily missing out fights altogether or, if you do run, to not have the enemies to lose you only oops that one guy over on the left spotted you so the entire army finds you again, even though you've re-hidden :nut:.

In my last play-through, I fast traveled back to Shanty Town and was just exploring and came across a few Solarii. A couple of times, I heard them before seeing them and avoided a confrontation. I messed up though as I was nosily eves dropping on their chanting and talk and a particularly observant guy spotted Lara and a fight ensued. Another time I ran and was chased and I dunno if I went passed a certain point where those particular enemies weren't programmed to go or something, but I managed to lose them. I enjoyed these encounters so much more than 30+ men or whatever ambushing Lara. I was nervous and on edge as I explored always on the alert that I could round a corner to face some men usually just a few from 2-5 at a time.

Driber
24th Jun 2014, 17:02
So you didn't find it odd, even ridiculous that a stealthy/hidden position pretty much meant nothing? I'm not talking about Lara being static for several minutes while she scopes the area, but mere moments. And there starts off with one guy out of just a few in the immediate area spotting her and within seconds this spawns a whole army (it felt like). I think , sure if your chosen hiding place is in a poor position which can be easily seen from above or you're in danger of enemies coming in from behind, then it would make more sense to be spotted especially in highly inhabited places such as Shanty Town. There really were times when I felt it shouldn't have been that easy to spot Lara, if you've found a place with optimal advantage. And enemies from far off really shouldn't be able to hit their mark from a great distance. I mean dynamite sticks finding Lara's exact location and within seconds of Lara changing position. It's just mad :p.

And you're right a game shouldn't be too easy and hand holdy. TR'13's hardest parts were the combat (for me). The hand holdy parts seemed to be for traversal and puzzles that weren't difficult anyway.

In Rise, I'd just appreciate the chance to either go around enemies entirely stealthily missing out fights altogether or, if you do run, to not have the enemies to lose you only oops that one guy over on the left spotted you so the entire army finds you again, even though you've re-hidden :nut:.

In my last play-through, I fast traveled back to Shanty Town and was just exploring and came across a few Solarii. A couple of times, I heard them before seeing them and avoided a confrontation. I messed up though as I was nosily eves dropping on their chanting and talk and a particularly observant guy spotted Lara and a fight ensued. Another time I ran and was chased and I dunno if I went passed a certain point where those particular enemies weren't programmed to go or something, but I managed to lose them. I enjoyed these encounters so much more than 30+ men or whatever ambushing Lara. I was nervous and on edge as I explored always on the alert that I could round a corner to face some men usually just a few from 2-5 at a time.

Well let me just start by saying that of course TR9 wasn't perfect (which game is?) and of course some parts, including the AI, could be improved upon.

However, at the same time I also acknowledge that things like an enemy spotting you triggering fellow baddies to be instantly aware of Lara's position helps to make the game more challenging.

So while it indeed can look weird when scrutinized with logic and placed under the realism magnifying glass, I appreciated that these illogical/unrealistic aspects gave me a run for my money. As you alluded to yourself, the game's intent (well, certain parts anyway) was to keep the player moving, to keep the player on his toes.

If instant-dynamite stick chaos as soon as one of the enemies spots Lara gets my adrenaline pumping, I'm perfectly willing to set aside my critical thinking skills at that moment and apply a little suspension of disbelief, heh.

IRON LOBSTER
25th Jun 2014, 13:11
Outside of the scripted combat sections of the game. TR 2013 could be played very stealthily. I've gotten through each section that didn't lead to a scripted enemy engagement without getting caught.

If anything the game should have rewarded you for stealthy play ie. getting you through an area unseen with extra XP. Or, at the end of the game ranking you MGS style, or very least post-game stats you can look at for speed/stealth runs etc and upload/take a pic and upload.

NG+ rewards/unlocks for stealthy play would have been nice too. Here's hoping for NG+ and post-game unlocks for ROTT.


What would work, and is what complements good stealth mechanics in games is having a 'reset' for alerted enemies patrolling areas so that once you have evaded them for a certain amount of time, they will return to their posts and their reinforcements leave the map so you can try again. That would open up the stealth in this game a lot more by having that option. Good (gaming) stealth is approachable like a puzzle you can retry. That was the only thing really missing from the stealth mechanics in TR 2013. The enemy AI was really good in this game, moving in while you were reloading and working in teams to flank you is what all that next/current gen processing power should be used for in campaign-based games with Human vs AI combat..


So hype for ROTT.