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Psychomorph
15th Jun 2014, 17:45
Stuff I'd like to see in Rise of the Tomb Raider.


Difficulty Modes

All would have the same amount of damage you need to inflict to enemies (not too much), but the experience, and thus the difficulty would be defined by other factors.


Normal

- Ledges and poles are marked with white paint (paint being not part of texture, but overlay).
- Lara would be very resistant against enemy fire, would make combat more forgiving for casual players.
- Animations (climbing, interaction) would be fast paced, to give casual players a smoother experience.
- Relics and secrets are reduced to not let them impair the smooth cinematic/gameplay experience.


Adventeurer

- Ledges and poles are marked with a faint white paint, to make it visible to the player, but not too obvious.
- Lara would be less resistant against enemy fire, would make a more challenging experience.
- Animations would be fast paced, to give the player a smooth experience.
- Relics and secrets are well defined and spread in the world, to make exploration for the curious gamer more rewarding.


Tomb Raider

- Ledges and poles not being marked with paint. For a player preferring a more challenging and thrilling platforming experience.
- Lara would be much less resistant against enemy fire. The amount of damage that she inflicts to enemies almost equals the amount she can take, making a very thrilling combat experience.
- Animations would be slowed down to a realistic level (think of the slower and more realistic climbing in the original Tomb Raider). This would make the platforming being a very immersive experience.
- Full scale of slightly randomly placed relics and secrets to explore. Many small items to be found in a variety of places, which would have a full scale platforming motivating effect.


Lara Look Mode (on/off)

Something I wish to see so badly, but know is not going to ever happen.

The idea is that the camera view and Lara's head are synchronized and turning the view makes Lara always turn her head there, too.
That includes that if looking to the side, say, 80 degrees, Lara's body is not turning, but only her head (with the camera). Moving forward (at the looking direction) will adjust/turn her body position accordingly (so when can move at the looking direction).

This mode would have the purpose of creating a more immersive experience for the player. Imagine Lara is standing on a higher platform, looking around would make her just stand there and turn her head to where I am looking as well.
Reason for this is a very simple one: Looking around an impressive set, I feel EXTREMELY disconnected with Lara if I am in awe of what I observe, but she is instead looking down and dusting off her pants looking bored. I wish to be fully connected to Lara, so we both see and feel the same. If I look at a gigantic ancient obelisk I want her to look at it too! I want her to comment on the observation (how amazing it is) the very same moment I am observing it, so that the whole Lara experience as a fully interconnected, smooth and coherent experience and not one where she stares bored at a wall, while I am amazed by the mind blowing scenery around her.
I always liked the way older 3rd person games had this, made me feel much more connected with the character, but the modern way of fully turning the camera around the character at all times always fails to immerse me into the game.

There would be an exception to the rule, for a smoother experience. When running backward, Lara, however, would turn around and run at the camera, but her head would be turned to the side, as if she is trying to look back, but as soon as I stop she turns around and looks in the direction she was running away from. That would look much better than seeing her running backward full speed.
If you walk and sneak backward, Lara would not turn around, but keep looking forward.


Field Of View (FOV) slider

You see right, field of view slider. Some may ask why does a 3rd person game need this. Fact remains that the modern 3rd person games usually have a narrower FOV, just as modern 1st person games. Back in the day, 3rd person games usually had a wider FOV, just like most of the older 1st person games.

I am personally am extremely hostile toward anything narrow FOV, because it manages to lessen the fun severely each time for a multiple reasons:
1) Mouse speed never feels right with a narrow FOV. It is either too slow or too fast, but never right. That impairs the looking around and especially the combat/aiming experience.
2) Narrow FOV makes the observing of breath taking locations less interesting, because you see less of it. I feel like a horse with blinders. I see, but not enough at the same time, but smaller patches of it.

I know this is never going to ever happen, but please give it a thought (for PC).


Oldschool Aim Mode (on/off)

This is another utopian dream of mine. When aiming, I would like to have no zoom, but just seeing Lara pulling and pointing forward the guns (with crosshair to aim) without to ever change the FOV/zoom (if there's still zoom, than barely noticeable and without the character being on the side of the screen).
There should be a zoom key however, that I can additionally make use of, if I wish to do so for more precision and better distance view. This zoom key would also be usable without aiming the weapons.
This would be a mode, the default mode would have both, aim and zoom as a single function.


Prone/Crawling

Instead of a auto-animated cutscene-like, the crawling through smaller spaces could be an actual player controlled action. To cut short on keys, however, I would not mind if the crawl would actually be an automatic thing, but for which you'd need to manually crouch down and move toward the opening in order to crawls through it.


Legend PC Sneak/Walk Mode

Please please please, make the sneak and walk like in Legend (separate keys, upright standing, sneak with that cautious looking body posture/animation). This is so great!
The crouch could still be sneak mode like in TR2013. I am aware that you will most likely go for the same "combat mode" mechanic as with TR13, where Lara crouches and sneaks automatically when near enemies. I'd like to control this manually, but I'm fine with the TR2013 way, I guess.
In any case, I'd still wish for an upright sneak mode as in Legend, which would have multiple of uses. Such as if being close to animals, which may not seem hostile, but you wish to not trip them off, you could sneak. If the structure you are walking on seems fragile, the careful sneak mode would allow you to walk on said structure with extra caution without to break them.

I'm aware that the sneak and walk have been native to the controller in Legend, but the developers have been cool enough to include the sneak and walk into the PC version as key options, even if the walk came after a patch only.



All I want is to be immersed into the game :( The older titles had mechanics that worked greatly, please consider to include some of them.

Valenka
15th Jun 2014, 18:19
Animations and the abundance of hidden items should not be changed in lieu of difficulty level. That's absolutely silly, if you ask me. Also, I think this thread goes hand in hand with the Wish List thread here: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=137435

Treeble
15th Jun 2014, 19:02
Lara Look Mode (on/off)

The idea is that the camera view and Lara's head are synchronized and turning the view makes Lara always turn her head there, too.
That includes that if looking to the side, say, 80 degrees, Lara's body is not turning, but only her head (with the camera). Moving forward (at the looking direction) will adjust/turn her body position accordingly (so when can move at the looking direction). [...]

Something like Resident Evil 6, then? If so, I agree completely, it was a neat little touch IMO. :)

Psychomorph
15th Jun 2014, 22:01
@Valenka:

You have to see it like that. the hard difficulty would be like the hardcore mode; harder combat due to less damage resistance, harder platforming due to the slower climbing/interacting and no ledge colouring, and harder exploration due to more stuff being better hidden. I think it makes sense.

I'd like animations to be naturally more realistic in pacing, but I know this wont happen, so I thought it was a good idea to use it as a more challenging mechanic on the hard difficulty setting.

I made a new thread, because I might add more suggestions later and wanted to keep all together in one thread, instead of having suggestions thrown around the main idea thread, where people talk about all the different ideas that are being thrown all around it.



@Treeble:

I don't mean to have the camera close to the characters head though. The camera distance and angle would be like it mostly was in TR, like in Legend and original TR, only this time Lara has the head free look, by moving the view you basically control her head. The body would only turn if the head is already facing to the side and can't physically and naturally turn any further anymore, or when the player taps the forward movement key, would make her readjust the body stance toward the looking direction.

Important to note is the following; Lara's head turning should be implemented/animated naturally, not like the camera is glued to it. That means if looking up, would not make her bend her neck unnaturally, because if humans look up, they tend to move their eyes up, thus the face/head is not 100% the looking direction, so you should think of it as if the player camera is connected to her eyes, hence I say that Lara should look where you turn the player camera to. Also if you're a mouse user, moving the mouse left and right at an insane speed should not make her twitch her neck like mad, the faster the mouse is moved, the more her head is disconnected from the player view camera. Only at a reasonable speed her head/eyes would follow.

Implementation is key, but it will be too awesome if actually implemented.

Valenka
15th Jun 2014, 23:46
@Valenka:

You have to see it like that. the hard difficulty would be like the hardcore mode; harder combat due to less damage resistance, harder platforming due to the slower climbing/interacting and no ledge colouring, and harder exploration due to more stuff being better hidden. I think it makes sense.

I'd like animations to be naturally more realistic in pacing, but I know this wont happen, so I thought it was a good idea to use it as a more challenging mechanic on the hard difficulty setting.

I'm afraid you've missed the point of my post entirely. With a harder difficulty setting, it would obviously make sense for the combat to be more difficult and not having any hints or "white ledges" involved for the sake of a more challenging experience. That, I agree with. Well, actually, I think white ledges should be done away with regardless; if people can't figure out what to do on their own, they aren't thinking hard enough or even trying hard enough for that matter. For $60, do people really want the game to hold their hand the entire way through? It's ridiculous.

As for animations, my answer is still no. Animations should not be slowed down or sped up for the sake of difficulty. Lara should still move at the same, normal speed regardless of the difficulty setting. I can't manage to determine how speeding up or slowing down her movements would complement specific difficulty settings whatsoever. :scratch:


I made a new thread, because I might add more suggestions later and wanted to keep all together in one thread, instead of having suggestions thrown around the main idea thread, where people talk about all the different ideas that are being thrown all around it.

I understand, but we can't all just open our own threads on the same topic because we're afraid our contributions will be lost in translation without being read. That's how forums and chat rooms work, I'm afraid. :o However, it's not my place to say what's allowed and what isn't, I was just giving my $0.02.

----------------------------------------------------

But, to contribute to the thread, I have a few suggestions of my own to add, then:

Don't Transfer TR9's Weapon Upgrade System
The weapon upgrade feature in TR9 worked wonderfully in theory but was so annoyingly unrealistic. If you do plan to carry it onto ROTTR, please revitalise it. In TR9, Lara started off with one weapon and then upgraded it and it became a completely different weapon and it made absolutely no sense. For example:

Bow: Makeshift Bow --> Recurve Bow | Compound Bow --> Competition Bow
Pistol: Beretta 92SB --> 92SB/M1911 hybrid | Remington Model 1911 R1 Enhanced --> Desert Eagle Mark XIX
Submachine Gun: Type 100 --> AK-47 --> Ultimax 100 Mark 3
Shotgun: Winchester M1912 --> Ithaca Model 37 --> Franchi SPAS-12

In absolutely zero context does it make sense to be able to pretty much change a weapon completely by upgrading it. I understand it's "just a video game" but we ought to be taking pride in the little things as well, especially if you're going for a realistic experience. When it comes right down to it, there's no need for simple things to not make sense. It's absolutely impossible to turn a RM1911 into a Desert Eagle with scrap metal found on an island. Don't try to make us think otherwise, please.

Don't Suppress Lara's Emotions
The biggest thing about TR9 that they got right, they got wrong. When Lara killed Vladimir, her first kill, her reaction was horrifically shortened. I remember watching the Final Hours videos and watching Camilla see the scene for the first time; Lara vomits, she tells herself, "I had to do it, I had to do it." That was cut from the final game and it shouldn't have been. Instead, Lara drops to her knees, coughs, says "Oh God," and two seconds later, she gets up, grabs her bow and moves on. Really? I understand she had to evade the premises, but come on. That was basically "the short version" of what happened, when we should have been shown the whole thing. Lara's emotions were suppressed when they shouldn't have been. I don't want to see that again.

Metalrocks
16th Jun 2014, 01:55
certainly no white ledges. maybe on easy mode for people who dont have much experience playing these kind of games and maybe for normal difficulty its optional.

but i still prefer the over the shoulder aim mode. just gives you more control with aiming so i like this feature to stay.

@valenka
agreed about the weapons. even i had to chuckle when i saw that you can change from one type to a different type. :lol:

also didnt know about the emotion part either. i guess i must have forgotten it.

Weemanply109
16th Jun 2014, 14:10
Don't Suppress Lara's Emotions
The biggest thing about TR9 that they got right, they got wrong. When Lara killed Vladimir, her first kill, her reaction was horrifically shortened. I remember watching the Final Hours videos and watching Camilla see the scene for the first time; Lara vomits, she tells herself, "I had to do it, I had to do it." That was cut from the final game and it shouldn't have been. Instead, Lara drops to her knees, coughs, says "Oh God," and two seconds later, she gets up, grabs her bow and moves on. Really? I understand she had to evade the premises, but come on. That was basically "the short version" of what happened, when we should have been shown the whole thing. Lara's emotions were suppressed when they shouldn't have been. I don't want to see that again.

Agree about this. It didn't help that Lara just approaches the next corner and starts killing more people. :lol:

d1n0_xD
16th Jun 2014, 15:04
Supression is a fairly common thing to do in those situations...

Valenka
16th Jun 2014, 18:34
Agree about this. It didn't help that Lara just approaches the next corner and starts killing more people. :lol:

Exactly my thought.


Supression is a fairly common thing to do in those situations...

Common to whom? And how so?

d1n0_xD
16th Jun 2014, 18:54
^ Common to people. It's a basic psychological phenomena, we experience a traumatizing event, we don't want to remember it and we push it into our subconsciousness in order to function properly and we move on as nothing has happened. The tricky thing is, it can't stay there forever, someday it'll get out, and that may be with some consequences... That's why Lara's in therapy, IMO... Does it work though? I don't think so, that's why she's out there, adventuring, that's what's helping her... At least I hope so that it's helping her by accepting what she's done and who she is, otherwise we're gonna have a lunatic on the loose :p

Valenka
16th Jun 2014, 18:58
^ Common to people. It's a basic psychological phenomena, we experience a traumatizing event, we don't want to remember it and we push it into our subconsciousness in order to function properly and we move on as nothing has happened. The tricky thing is, it can't stay there forever, someday it'll get out, and that may be with some consequences... That's why Lara's in therapy, IMO... Does it work though? I don't think so, that's why she's out there, adventuring, that's what's helping her... At least I hope so that it's helping her by accepting what she's done and who she is, otherwise we're gonna have a lunatic on the loose :p

Oh! My apologies, I misinterpreted your post. Yes, you're right, that is a very normal thing to do. But in my post mentioning it, I was more so on the line of the development standpoint; it didn't seem (to me anyway) that in the game, Lara was deliberately suppressing her emotions. To me, it felt like the developers just kind of skimmed over the whole thing for the sake of moving on with the game.

Therapy works for some people and it doesn't work for others. You can't generalise the subject and just blatantly say it doesn't work, when it does for some. Therapy helped me quite a lot, actually. It might not help Lara; maybe her therapy is as you said, adventuring and keeping her mind clear.

d1n0_xD
16th Jun 2014, 19:09
it didn't seem (to me anyway) that in the game, Lara was deliberately suppressing her emotions. To me, it felt like the developers just kind of skimmed over the whole thing for the sake of moving on with the game.

Don't know if it'll change your mind, but I think there was a subtle facial expression that showed Lara was supressing her emotions (it's in the little things, really). When she shot the guy, and was on her knees and everything, she was breathing heavily (which shows that she was emotionally wrecked) and then she lifts her head and she swallows... Like, "ok, no time to cry or even think, Lara, you gotta go, just go, run!", that's what I think it was going through her mind. I know it's little to start from, but I noticed that little detail and everything made sense to me... Just my 2 cents :)


You can't generalise the subject and just blatantly say it doesn't work, when it does for some. Therapy helped me quite a lot, actually. It might not help Lara; maybe her therapy is as you said, adventuring and keeping her mind clear.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to generalize, I was thinking of Lara's case. "Does it work? I don't think so." was meant for Lara, I'm sorry :/ I'm actually all for therapy, therapy is good, I was just thinking that "usual" therapy maybe isn't working for Lara...

RybatGrimes
16th Jun 2014, 19:28
Agree about this. It didn't help that Lara just approaches the next corner and starts killing more people. :lol:

But she does try to reason with them on multiple occasions after she kills Vlad, she say to them stuff like "why are you doing this!?" "stop, please!" but she's saying it while you're shooting them in the face so... the dialogue kind of goes out the window. :p

They should've spaced it out somehow, but it's hard doing it in gameplay, because it all depends on whether the player waits for the situation to play out or just goes in guns blazing. It seems like a very difficult thing to balance out in gameplay.

d1n0_xD
16th Jun 2014, 19:57
^ Well she's only shooting them in the face if you're shooting them in the face :p

Valenka
16th Jun 2014, 22:45
Don't know if it'll change your mind, but I think there was a subtle facial expression that showed Lara was supressing her emotions (it's in the little things, really). When she shot the guy, and was on her knees and everything, she was breathing heavily (which shows that she was emotionally wrecked) and then she lifts her head and she swallows... Like, "ok, no time to cry or even think, Lara, you gotta go, just go, run!", that's what I think it was going through her mind. I know it's little to start from, but I noticed that little detail and everything made sense to me... Just my 2 cents :)

I hadn't noticed that. I'll have to go play through that scene again and be on the lookout for it. :)


Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to generalize, I was thinking of Lara's case. "Does it work? I don't think so." was meant for Lara, I'm sorry :/ I'm actually all for therapy, therapy is good, I was just thinking that "usual" therapy maybe isn't working for Lara...

No worries, I knew what you meant. :D