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ResidentX
18th Apr 2014, 20:55
I finished the DE: The Fall. I'm moving back to DE:HR. Has anyone played this with the Director's Commentary On?
Also, how does it work? Does it play automatically or do you have to activate it in the game like Pheromones.

Franubis
18th Apr 2014, 21:42
It works via invisible triggers, you get a sound notification and an icon saying "press [] to play commentary" appears when close to one.

You press the button and it starts, but you can't stop, rewing, fastforward or pause it...

hybridex
19th Apr 2014, 06:12
Also, during the cut scenes and start of the boss fights, it goes off automatically. Just be warned that it can get quite annoying cause you can't stop it when it comes on until it is finished by itself, and the volume is much louder than the sound of the gameplay. The commentary often talks over other dialogues of the game character as well..

How long is the Fall game play?

Karpaw
19th Apr 2014, 11:13
I tried listening to the commentary in-game but standing around for minutes at a time was tedious and broke the pacing of play completely. Just watch it on YT instead (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5X8LHBHCqpKZe3i7IW2mh6zO8xY0niz9).

ResidentX
19th Apr 2014, 14:40
It works via invisible triggers, you get a sound notification and an icon saying "press [] to play commentary" appears when close to one.

You press the button and it starts, but you can't stop, rewing, fastforward or pause it...

Thanks. Franubis, Do you know how many of these are in the game?


I tried listening to the commentary in-game but standing around for minutes at a time was tedious and broke the pacing of play completely. Just watch it on YT instead (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5X8LHBHCqpKZe3i7IW2mh6zO8xY0niz9).

Thanks Karpaw. This link shows the duration of each commentary...useful...very useful. 7 hours of commentary, WOW!! I'm going to go listen to one of these now...


Also, during the cut scenes and start of the boss fights, it goes off automatically. Just be warned that it can get quite annoying cause you can't stop it when it comes on until it is finished by itself, and the volume is much louder than the sound of the gameplay. The commentary often talks over other dialogues of the game character as well..

How long is the Fall game play?

Hybridex,

Deus Ex: The Fall has about 4-5 hours of play. When I play games the first time I try to be thorough so not to miss anything. This game can easily be play 1 hour at time. I break the game into 7 sections:

Read Deus Ex: Icarus Effect First!
1. The Kill Kontarsky/Investigate the Tyrants
2. The Train Station/Boardwalk
3. The Slums
4. Downtown
5. Hotel Etana
6. XNG Data Center/Bell Tower
7. Conclusion

Just make sure you do the side missions one at a time to completion or you'll lose them. I just say this to say again. This game is not DE:HR don't come to the game with those assumptions.

Karpaw,

I watched the first one. This is pretty good. I liked the comments about Half-Life.
I would not have wanted to watch these during game play...

This stuff is solid gold...

I couldn't resist and watched the second one. I'm going to try to limit/do 1 video a day. Listening to the choices the devs/producers had to make to deliver this game on is something. This is fun :-)

On the boards, I've read about how bad the maps designs were in this game. I never really understood this argument. Today I watched Episode 3 & 4 and I'm impressed with straight talk about the challenges they had with the game design.

I'm glad they didn't implement the Nigerian Email Scam Achievement though...

What is Jonathan's fixation with Nigeria(ORON). Also, if you guys need a tester that can actually find the weapons dealer locations...call me :-)

CyberP
24th Apr 2014, 15:18
On the boards, I've read about how bad the maps designs were in this game. I never really understood this argument. Today I watched Episode 3 & 4 and I'm impressed with straight talk about the challenges they had with the game design.

They are good in that they are somewhat open, art direction is pretty, and features somewhat believable architecture, layouts and such overall. They are bad in that they are not open enough, the art direction is unsuitable for a Deus Ex game, and the sim design isn't strong enough. Lastly, and arguably most importantly, from a gameplay aspect they are not exceptional overall (but still acceptable overall, yet could be much better). The careless placements and copy paste overuse of the vents is a prime example of the "bad" in Human Revolution's level design.

ResidentX
24th Apr 2014, 15:50
They are good in that they are somewhat open, art direction is pretty, and features somewhat believable architecture, layouts and such overall. They are bad in that they are not open enough, the art direction is unsuitable for a Deus Ex game, and the sim design isn't strong enough. Lastly, and arguably most importantly, from a gameplay aspect they are not exceptional overall (but still acceptable overall, yet could be much better). The careless placements and copy paste overuse of the vents is a prime example of the "bad" in Human Revolution's level design.

CyberP, you need to watch Episode 5 in the commentary list above (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5X8LHBHCqpKZe3i7IW2mh6zO8xY0niz9). They talked about how during testing the maps were so open that players/testers weren't finding doorways and other things. Also, they had a nice long discussion about believable architecture and art direction.

CyberP
24th Apr 2014, 20:05
CyberP, you need to watch Episode 5 in the commentary list above (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5X8LHBHCqpKZe3i7IW2mh6zO8xY0niz9).

Yes, as a constant critic of their game I do owe it to them to hear their all of their side of the story. Will keep the commentary in mind as I have been intending to watch/listen to the lot.


They talked about how during testing the maps were so open that players/testers weren't finding doorways and other things.

So make the readable map better and add more street signs...there wasn't any in Detroit if I remember correctly. This should be enough without making silly compromises (if there were any in regards to level design, probably was), in addition to the optional objective markers already present (a silly but understandable and non-conflicting compromise. Not too taxing to implement and is optional. Make forced to false on GMDX mode for DX4 pls).

Focus groups...with any old Joe picked up off the sidewalk I assume. If you make your games to appeal to a very broad audience then you are compromising a good design vision, if there is one to begin with. Of course there is big money involved so it's somewhat understandable, but business conflicting with art and ultimately taking precedence has gone on for too long now, and it's not strictly necessary to cheapen your work; see Dark Souls and some other gems.

ResidentX
24th Apr 2014, 20:21
Your too much, CyberP. No game is perfect.

CyberP
24th Apr 2014, 20:24
Of course no game is perfect, but if you take on an IP of the Looking Glass lineage you have really big boots to fill. You wouldn't understand.

ResidentX
24th Apr 2014, 20:37
I think I understand but I think your being unfair...it's easy to look back and say you should have done this or that. Time is finite.

Jito463
25th Apr 2014, 18:50
I think I understand but I think your being unfair...it's easy to look back and say you should have done this or that. Time is finite.

Hindsight is 20/20, that's true, but he does have a point. The previous game was readily available for comparative study, and when you're making a sequel (or prequel, or whatever) to what is commonly considered one of the greatest games ever made, it's only logical that you would try to emulate that game as much as possible, while still bringing the technology forward into the present.

There was much that was done well with Human Revolution (it was a far sight better than Invisible War), but there was so much that they could have done better.

ResidentX
25th Apr 2014, 19:37
The previous game was readily available for comparative study, and when you're making a sequel (or prequel, or whatever) to what is commonly considered one of the greatest games ever made, it's only logical that you would try to emulate that game as much as possible, while still bringing the technology forward into the present.

I got a warning today so I need to pay closer attention to how I say things. Deus Ex I played and I never felt the magic many of you speak of. I got it free with the purchase of DE: The FALL...maybe I should play it again? DE:HR I felt copied some of the greatest features(interface) and during the director's commentary I've learned more about how they tried to it justice with the updated version but I don't think it should have been the sole definition of where DE:HR should go/went. It's like trying to apply the limits of a Intel 486 chip to the 4th Generation Intel Core. You can try to compare it but their like apples to oranges. Technology changes so fast that we can almost present a new experience to the user. We could probably argue this point all day...

I think DE: HR did the best with the time and resources they had. Who wants something perfect?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Apr 2014, 19:53
I got a warning today so I need to pay closer attention to how I say things.
Its not how you say things... but what things you say. :p
Breaking news: Name-calling starts riots.

ResidentX
25th Apr 2014, 19:55
I'm not mad. I just need to pay a little more attention. All people that are growing getting advice from time to time :-)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Apr 2014, 19:57
Absolutely agree; we're all learning all the time. :flowers:

Shralla
25th Apr 2014, 21:29
I think DE: HR did the best with the time and resources they had.

They did their best at making a pseudo-Deus Ex game, yeah. They didn't do their best at making a Deus Ex game, which is the point. Nobody's asking for perfection. The original Deus Ex wasn't perfect, but HR does little to fix the problems it had while at the same time adding a whole heap of new problems on top of it.

ResidentX
26th Apr 2014, 01:15
They did their best at making a pseudo-Deus Ex game, yeah. They didn't do their best at making a Deus Ex game, which is the point. Nobody's asking for perfection. The original Deus Ex wasn't perfect, but HR does little to fix the problems it had while at the same time adding a whole heap of new problems on top of it.

This like dealing with Republicans...

How is DE:HR not a Deus Ex game? Maybe I need to play the first one again. I must of missed some things.
Also, can you be a little more specific with your comments. "did little to fix the problems...at the same time adding a whole heap of new problems."

ResidentX
26th Apr 2014, 01:17
I'm playing the first Deus Ex now. It's only 600MB, lol.

CyberP
26th Apr 2014, 01:47
I'm playing the first Deus Ex now. It's only 600MB, lol.

This time stick with it. You said you gave up pretty quick last time.


I must of missed some things.

You missed a lot, as did the designers at Eidos Montreal.

ResidentX
26th Apr 2014, 02:19
I went through the training module tonight. I don't remember this game have a LAN/Internet game option and skills points upfront. Were these new features added to the GOTY edition? This looks so customizable.

ResidentX
26th Apr 2014, 02:38
This feels just like DE:HR or maybe it's the other way around :-) The lethal/non-lethal options...
Do you want distance or do you want take them out up close? They even have the police on a lease waiting for me...

Can you reprogram the keys in this game?

CyberP
26th Apr 2014, 02:59
I went through the training module tonight. I don't remember this game have a LAN/Internet game option and skills points upfront. Were these new features added to the GOTY edition? This looks so customizable.

Skill system was unchanged by the GOTY edition, I believe. Not sure why though, it was rather unbalanced (but still good in it's intentions and impact on the gameplay).

Multiplayer was added in the GOTY. Likely tacked on for sales (after release, so it in no way conflicted with the original vision), just ignore it, the singleplayer experience is Deus Ex.



Can you reprogram the keys in this game?

Yes. The first thing any player should always do in any game is explore the menus. Options, controls, setting up. Then in-game proper the inventory, skills etc. It is vital to do this no matter the platform, unless there are no menus or options of any sort, which is very rare.
This written appropriately should be a one-time appearance loading screen hint in DX4 at the start of the game, if the hints are to return.

ResidentX
26th Apr 2014, 14:23
I was in a hurry last night when we started talking. I did the training mish which took about an hour. They key settings caused some problems with the stealth part. The guards would see me no matter where I was and they just kept on hitting the alarm button. Then, I played about half's worth of the first mish and quit for the night. I'll be playing this game over time...

Right now I need to get back to the my routine of 1 commentary a day...I'm almost to the missing link ones. I have to hear the story on why we got such a weak boss in Burke.

Jito463
26th Apr 2014, 15:00
It's like trying to apply the limits of a Intel 486 chip to the 4th Generation Intel Core. You can try to compare it but their like apples to oranges. Technology changes so fast that we can almost present a new experience to the user.

I'm not referring to the technological aspect, I'm referring to the core design elements. These things are universal, regardless of the technology. Dishonored did a great job of displaying some of those core elements, by giving control to the player(letting us decide our own path through the missions), rather than try to force the player down the developer-proscribed path. It's ironic how Dishonored was closer to being a Thief sequel than Thief was...but we're discussing Deus Ex, so I'll let that matter rest.

Deus Ex was far from a perfect game, but it was still a masterpiece of a game, because of the core design it was built around; namely, giving control to the player to decide how best to approach a situation, as well as large, open levels in which to play around. HR tried very hard to duplicate that, but they still fell into the trap of linear pathing, and "contextual" controls.

If they could step back, and take a new look at ways to empower the player to actually, you know, *PLAY* the game, instead of trying to control where we can go, then DX4 could very well be the "Deus Ex killer" (so to speak).

Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic about it, and I'm not holding my breath for it. However, if it were to happen, I would be extremely happy. I might even squeal like a little school girl....in private anyway. :lol:

ResidentX
26th Apr 2014, 15:48
I'm not referring to the technological aspect, I'm referring to the core design elements. These things are universal, regardless of the technology. Dishonored did a great job of displaying some of those core elements, by giving control to the player(letting us decide our own path through the missions), rather than try to force the player down the developer-proscribed path. It's ironic how Dishonored was closer to being a Thief sequel than Thief was...but we're discussing Deus Ex, so I'll let that matter rest.

Deus Ex was far from a perfect game, but it was still a masterpiece of a game, because of the core design it was built around; namely, giving control to the player to decide how best to approach a situation, as well as large, open levels in which to play around. HR tried very hard to duplicate that, but they still fell into the trap of linear pathing, and "contextual" controls.

If they could step back, and take a new look at ways to empower the player to actually, you know, *PLAY* the game, instead of trying to control where we can go, then DX4 could very well be the "Deus Ex killer" (so to speak).

Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic about it, and I'm not holding my breath for it. However, if it were to happen, I would be extremely happy. I might even squeal like a little school girl....in private anyway. :lol:

I accept your comments. I truly feel the team had the ambition to meet the challenge when they started but the more of these videos I watch I get the feeling the "Engine" they chose severely limited what they could do. They thought they had xx features and later under pressure learned they couldn't do it and had to adjust. Hengsha for example, they got so much right but during the videos they mentioned they had to cutdown (users and devs were getting lost moving through it during testing) and cutout(removed the India storyline) maps. The engine and the user feedback probably raised lots of questions to the team.

This game COULD have been more if they had a better engine...I'm sure they're going to pay attention to that if they get the greenlight for DX4.

ResidentX
26th Apr 2014, 16:07
I'm not referring to the technological aspect, I'm referring to the core design elements. These things are universal, regardless of the technology. Dishonored did a great job of displaying some of those core elements, by giving control to the player(letting us decide our own path through the missions), rather than try to force the player down the developer-proscribed path. It's ironic how Dishonored was closer to being a Thief sequel than Thief was...but we're discussing Deus Ex, so I'll let that matter rest.

Deus Ex was far from a perfect game, but it was still a masterpiece of a game, because of the core design it was built around; namely, giving control to the player to decide how best to approach a situation, as well as large, open levels in which to play around. HR tried very hard to duplicate that, but they still fell into the trap of linear pathing, and "contextual" controls.




I want to address this comment specifically.

The maps "looked" bigger in Deus Ex but they had few things in them. Also, I think your running speed is faster too. I was playing the game last night and the enemies could see me before I could see them which I found annoying. I just don't know what the obsession with this game is coming from.

In DE:HR, the maps were richer, more indoors, and urban. The designers mentioned specifically they had come from these type of games.

Shralla
26th Apr 2014, 17:42
Stop blazing around corners without looking. I've never had a problem with being seen. More indoors isn't necessarily a good thing. There were plenty of indoor environments in the original but the main attraction has always been the outdoor hub levels. At this point you've already been tainted by playing and apparently falling in love with Human Revolution. You clearly like the dumbed and watered down version of Deus Ex so there's really nothing about the original to sell it to you.

ResidentX
26th Apr 2014, 18:53
Stop blazing around corners without looking. I've never had a problem with being seen. More indoors isn't necessarily a good thing. There were plenty of indoor environments in the original but the main attraction has always been the outdoor hub levels. At this point you've already been tainted by playing and apparently falling in love with Human Revolution. You clearly like the dumbed and watered down version of Deus Ex so there's really nothing about the original to sell it to you.

I was in a rush yesterday and I was tired. That's why I need to take this game slowly. First, I need to reprogram the keys. I just need to find the time. I do love DE:HR but the point of my comments is that they(DE:HR Design Team) emulated some/lots of the features of the original. They should get points for that.

My objective right now is to finish the commentaries. I'm almost done and then I can focus on the Original Deus EX.
Also, I learned today the DLC The Missing Link was envisioned after DE:HR not from the beginning and then broken into two for monetary reasons(MYTH) as many have said.

ResidentX
26th Apr 2014, 20:31
I'm an hour from the finish line.

I don't know what to say about the Missing Link Commentaries. They said they tried to do something different with the Burke Boss fight but I just found it too easy. I wish they would have talked more about this. They did seem to learn to use the engine better. They didn't seem to have lot of time to do the work though :-)

I especially like the fact there's a way to save everyone now...
I like how they left the scene in the game where they captured Jensen(with the bullet holes and blood), http://1drv.ms/1lU1XYf

Still have lot of questions unanswered though about the missing link...kind of disappointed about that.

ResidentX
27th Apr 2014, 00:04
Okay, I'm set on all the keys for Deus Ex...I think. I deleted all the mulitiplayer key bindings too.

Just a few questions:

1. Why would you want the ability to reactivate/deactivate all your augs at the same time?
2. What is the difference between reload and change ammo?
3. What does "Look Mouse" mean? I had a key programmed for that but when I tried to use it nothing happened. I just deleted it to get the space back.
4. How is the "Strafe" key different than the left or right strafe? I had a key programmed for that but when I tried to use it nothing happened. I just deleted it to get the space back.
5. What is this plague/virus their talking about in the game? It looks like it's affecting regular humans not augmented ones.
6. How do you program laptop function keys? I tried to input "fn" + Fwhatever but it won't accept them. I know F1 and F2 are taken.

CyberP
27th Apr 2014, 03:01
1. Why would you want the ability to reactivate/deactivate all your augs at the same time?

Deactivate all augs is handy as a shortcut. Activate all augs is a bit impractical but there are plenty keys on the board so why not.


2. What is the difference between reload and change ammo?

Self-explanatory I would have thought. DX has multiple ammo types for individual weapons, another thing not present in HR.


3. What does "Look Mouse" mean? I had a key programmed for that but when I tried to use it nothing happened. I just deleted it to get the space back.

I assume you mean mouse look. Used to toggle it on/off. There were mad men set in their ways of keyboard aiming back then, so this is an option just for personal preference...I think. Tbh I have no idea why you would want to toggle it, but it has valid reasoning I'm sure.


4. How is the "Strafe" key different than the left or right strafe?

I assume it's for use by the aforementioned mad men. Lots of assumptions today.
Hold strafe and look left/right becomes strafe left/right? WASD is ideal but robust control customization, you cannot go wrong really.


5. What is this plague/virus their talking about in the game? It looks like it's affecting regular humans not augmented ones.

You'll have to wait & see. Or not. You cannot do everything, see everything, know everything in a single playthrough, but the Gray Death is a central part of the plot so you'll discover most things in regards to this.


6. How do you program laptop function keys? I tried to input "fn" + Fwhatever but it won't accept them. I know F1 and F2 are taken.

3rd party software.

Edit: Consider grabbing the HDTP and New Vision mods for better graphics, unless you are perfectly happy with vanilla.

ResidentX
7th May 2014, 21:48
I've been playing the Original Deus Ex over the past week or so and it's pretty good. Some of the features are pretty cool too.
I'm in Hell's Kitchen now but it was slow going at first. I hate having to do headshots, waiting for the drugs/tranqs to take effect, and lengthy dialogue before I can go forward but this augment system is very nice. I like the inventory system and skills tree. I guess in this game, augment choices aren't always final. Reprogramming the keyboard made a world of difference though for me.

My only complaint is the AI...just before boarding the train, I killed two of 10 soldiers and then walked up and met the contact then I walked around headshot the terrorists to save ammo. Also, I feel like when I play I'm leaving stuff behind...rooms specifically. Naturally, I want to clean out/explore but I try to follow the mission objectives when I get the broadcasts.

I sort of understand now why some prefer this to DE:HR. I read somewhere that this game has 30 hours of play.

CyberP
7th May 2014, 23:33
This is only the beginning.
It just gets better and better the more you play, and it has so much replayability, and then there are mods to get rid of flaws also once you have a few playthroughs under your belt. Keep at it :)



If they could step back, and take a new look at ways to empower the player to actually, you know, *PLAY* the game, instead of trying to control where we can go, then DX4 could very well be the "Deus Ex killer" (so to speak).

Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic about it, and I'm not holding my breath for it. However, if it were to happen, I would be extremely happy. I might even squeal like a little school girl....in private anyway. :lol:

I'll squeal on the internet. Good games need the recognition they deserve, and word of mouth is a good driving force for that recognition.

ResidentX
17th May 2014, 03:00
Sorry to bother you guys again. Where are the medibots in this game? I'm about to kill Lebedev at his big plane but I noticed since I got to the airfield I can't jump, climb or walk upright. I can't reach items on the table either. I looked at my augments and I must of taken shots to my legs because both have no power/energy left in them. I think I'm done for the night. I have access to more powerful weapons so the enemies are dying faster. Playing this game from the military point of view is different the corporate one in DE:HR.

ResidentX
17th May 2014, 03:41
This game...I used the crowbar. I beat the door down and then limped along and beat Lebedev dead with it. I'm back at the base now. Tracer Tong is next...where is this leading me?

CyberP
17th May 2014, 05:28
You crawl all the way back to the chopper? Lol.
Remember, explore the menus/UI, and take note of the functionality of the HUD.

You didn't look at your augments you looked at your health/condition.

Damage to arms effects accuracy.
Damage to legs effects movement.
If head or torso reach 0 then you die.
If more than two non-vital body parts (arms and legs) are at 0 health consecutive damage to those body parts hurts the torso instead.

You will get a regeneration augmentation shortly, you'll find the game a lot easier and managing health is no longer an issue because it's super OP.

ResidentX
17th May 2014, 16:43
I'm just amazed at the depth of the game despite it being so old.

I play this game about 1 hour or two every weekend or when I get a free moment. I'm still undecided about this game though. Some of this game I like but other stuff things just make this game frustrating. I hate having to turn stuff on and off like armour. Also, stuff is expensive in this game...I'm managing the skills part but augments I find here or there. I understand why DE:HR removed this part of the game. I've played about 10 hours but my progress is slow and some of the instructions are incorrect. I tried attacking a chopper after I came out of the sewers just beyond the 2nd ambrosia and I wasted all my ammo while at the same time snipers were picking me off from all around. I finally ran away and used the elevator to get to the airfield.

CyberP
17th May 2014, 19:33
I'm just amazed at the depth of the game despite it being so old.

It is arguably the deepest game to date in everything except graphics.


I Some of this game I like but other stuff things just make this game frustrating. I hate having to turn stuff on and off like armour.

Yes, I cannot defend this one. Most design decisions make perfect sense, this one however I cannot see the reasoning behind because you cannot even turn it off once enabled. Maybe I'll mod that and add a hotkey to toggle on/off also.


Also, stuff is expensive in this game...I'm managing the skills part but augments I find here or there. I understand why DE:HR removed this part of the game. I've played about 10 hours but my progress is slow and some of the instructions are incorrect.

If you have only just finished lebedev's airfield you are only about 1/4 of the way through. 10 hours? Your progress is slow :p


I tried attacking a chopper after I came out of the sewers just beyond the 2nd ambrosia and I wasted all my ammo while at the same time snipers were picking me off from all around. I finally ran away and used the elevator to get to the airfield.

I lol'd. In my mod I made the helicopter fly away as you approach it, but that was simply to get rid of it for simulation reasons; because it was a non-interactive object that you'd expect to be able to do something with in a highly interactive world, plus it had a dodgy collision cylinder. I didn't do it because I thought players would attack it and waste all their ammo.
Maybe you saw that it was called "Attack Helicopter" and got the wrong idea? :lol:

ResidentX
17th May 2014, 23:47
The main reason my progress is so poor is that I'm always looking for stuff I need and exploring. I fall into these situations and then find stuff. Once I fell into the water and then I found a tunnel...that's how it goes. Also, this game runs you back and forth...

ResidentX
17th May 2014, 23:52
Maybe you saw that it was called "Attack Helicopter" and got the wrong idea? :lol:

Exactly...

In DE:HR, I could put tracers on everyone so there are no surprises. In this game, heavy guards or robots come out of nowhere because the move so quick(good design) so I can't really linger. When the coast is clear I gotta go. I came out of the room and ran to the helicopter and it said "Attack Helicopter." I'm JC, I'm a UNATCO officer...shoot first, ask questions later :D

ResidentX
17th May 2014, 23:55
But this game has better AI than DE:HR. DE:HR has that cone vision. In the original Deus Ex, the guards see you from afar. Different strategy needed to play this game. I got a heavy weapon now and it bursts so I have ranged first strike power. Headshots are the way to go in this game. I have a sniper rifle but I can't find bullets for it so I use it as a last resort.

CyberP
18th May 2014, 13:12
I'm JC, I'm a UNATCO officer...shoot first, ask questions later :D

More like use your head and assess every situation on the fly. Well that's most people's JC anyway ;)

If you want to experiment or are unsure of something, quicksave before doing it. Then if it fails you can reloads the game, no consequences. Bloody quicksave.

Better AI!? The AI in DX1 is the worst aspect of the game and HR has it beat there. You probably just like that it is more difficult because there is no third person cover, no regen health, no regen augs, no radar etc. You've actually got to use your head.
The human enemies are pretty much dumb, blind and deaf though. Their dialogue makes them believable but their behaviour, it's like JC vs the special needs.
My mod helps with this (give it a try after a few playthroughs ;)) but they still have many issues.

There are numerous methods for dealing with bots, just don't use bullets at all unless they are sabot rounds for the shotgun.

ResidentX
18th May 2014, 15:09
More like use your head and assess every situation on the fly. Well that's most people's JC anyway ;)

If you want to experiment or are unsure of something, quicksave before doing it. Then if it fails you can reloads the game, no consequences. Bloody quicksave.

Better AI!? The AI in DX1 is the worst aspect of the game and HR has it beat there. You probably just like that it is more difficult because there is no third person cover, no regen health, no regen augs, no radar etc. You've actually got to use your head.
The human enemies are pretty much dumb, blind and deaf though. Their dialogue makes them believable but their behaviour, it's like JC vs the special needs.
My mod helps with this (give it a try after a few playthroughs ;)) but they still have many issues.

There are numerous methods for dealing with bots, just don't use bullets at all unless they are sabot rounds for the shotgun.

Bloody Save is right. I do it just to do it because a reset pushes me back 15 minutes with all the searching I do!

About AI, I don't know about that. In this game, the soldiers have a survival instinct/threshold...they run off if they get too low and don't always call for backup. In DE:HR, I used to regularly kill one and wait for the other to come. Just the noise would pull them in. Also, the soldiers in the original deus ex do evasive moves(hard left to right/right to left patterns) when running and returning shots. They don't do that in DE:HR.

ResidentX
18th May 2014, 15:38
There is one thing I'm curious about. During my runs, I would run into these areas where my speed would be throttled to slowed walking. I think I've run into 3 zones like this. The last zone I remember was just before and after the aligment of the dish to warn ATF I mean NSF forces.

CyberP
18th May 2014, 17:56
There is one thing I'm curious about. During my runs, I would run into these areas where my speed would be throttled to slowed walking. I think I've run into 3 zones like this. The last zone I remember was just before and after the aligment of the dish to warn ATF I mean NSF forces.

You could either be pressing caps lock (default bind- toggles walk/run) or losing heath in both your legs (open the UI/Menu and go to health, then apply medkit to leg).


Bloody Save is right. I do it just to do it because a reset pushes me back 15 minutes with all the searching I do!

About AI, I don't know about that. In this game, the soldiers have a survival instinct/threshold...they run off if they get too low and don't always call for backup. In DE:HR, I used to regularly kill one and wait for the other to come. Just the noise would pull them in. Also, the soldiers in the original deus ex do evasive moves(hard left to right/right to left patterns) when running and returning shots. They don't do that in DE:HR.

Yeah I suppose many do underestimate the AI in DX, myself included. There is a lot of complexity to them but they have plenty major issues also.

ResidentX
18th May 2014, 21:50
You could either be pressing caps lock (default bind- toggles walk/run) or losing heath in both your legs (open the UI/Menu and go to health, then apply medkit to leg).

Yeah I suppose many do underestimate the AI in DX, myself included. There is a lot of complexity to them but they have plenty major issues also.

Nope, I know it's not this issue. I'll zone and then be back to full speed.

I got issues with this game. Some areas it's really nice but the weapons I have are weak and poorly designed. I'm always having to reload in the middle of a fight. I hate this. They burst too much or too little(low firing rate) but neither is enough for the takedown. It's killing me because the enemy gets a break and then L2R, R2L's me and then I'm dead.

I find using the LAM grenade solves 90% of my problems in this game. Also, when do I get to kill Anna Navarre? This woman irks me to death. I should of shot her instead of Lebedev...

Shralla
18th May 2014, 23:14
I can't believe you shot Lebedev on your first playthrough. What kind of monster are you?

ResidentX
18th May 2014, 23:51
I didn't really have choice...I wasn't going to defect. I'm not a traitor. Win or Loss...I stand for loyalty

CyberP
18th May 2014, 23:51
Nope, I know it's not this issue. I'll zone and then be back to full speed.

Well if it's a bug I've never heard of it.


I got issues with this game. Some areas it's really nice but the weapons I have are weak and poorly designed. I'm always having to reload in the middle of a fight. I hate this. They burst too much or too little(low firing rate) but neither is enough for the takedown. It's killing me because the enemy gets a break and then L2R, R2L's me and then I'm dead.

Upgrading weapons skills increases damage, accuracy, reload speed and reduces recoil. Then you have your plenty weapon mods. Keep playing and upgrading and eventually the weapons will be very good. Though they still suffer from audio and visual quality (even for the time), as well as a couple of slightly questionable mechanics (if using scope, auto-zoom after a reload as one example, or all weapons being fully automatic (technically) as another) which is another set of things (http://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/videos/gmdx-weapons#imagebox) my mod, in combination with HDTP, focuses on...for those that don't know.
Yep, shamelessly plugging away. Because it's worth it. Many aspects of the mighty DX improved :cool:


Also, when do I get to kill Anna Navarre? This woman irks me to death. I should of shot her instead of Lebedev...

Funny you say that, because this is the exact point she is no longer invincible and can be killed. Try it next playthrough, assuming you go for another.

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 00:00
Funny you say that, because this is the exact point she is no longer invincible and can be killed. Try it next playthrough, assuming you go for another.

I'll keep playing the game. It's interesting. The game's theme about Gov't bothers me...how they can just do anything and get away with it. This Majestic12 compound is incredible though. I always thought working at corporations was the apex in life but this games reminds me of the quiet allure of Govt(legalized double dealing). Too, I want to see what happens to tracer tong and bob page. I was suppose to go to Hong Kong to kill him(Tracer) but now I'm a fugitive on the run from Unatco...I can thank Paul for that. Funny how things turn out...

CyberP
19th May 2014, 00:02
I always though working at corporations was the Apex in life

Who, or what influenced that belief I wonder? :/

How about building your own corporation? ;)

Wait till you see the interior levels of the Versalife building in Hong Kong, ha ha.

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 00:10
Who, or what influenced that belief I wonder? :/

Corporations have tons of cash, private technology, are given wide berths by Gov't, and they have legal global monopolies. Who wouldn't want that? This is one of the reasons why I loved DE:HR so much. It was like a true life story.

CyberP
19th May 2014, 00:14
Corporations have tons of cash, private technology, are given wide berths by Gov't, and they have legal global monopolies. Who wouldn't want that?

That's assuming you climb your way to the top of the pyramid, or near the top at least, for you to be able to appreciate these things and have that power...and assuming it's not a retail corporation or something, unless that interests you ;)

Also, I wouldn't want that. Maybe I'm just crazy :p

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 00:17
How about building your own corporation? ;)

Growing and running a business is fun but like most things they need to be maintained and that can take the joy out of it. I miss the long term planning but I don't miss the emotionless decisions about other people's careers when the business rises and falls. Personally, I don't think people should profit forever off each other either, people shouldn't have that kind of security.

CyberP
19th May 2014, 00:22
Personally, I don't think people should profit forever off each other either, people shouldn't have that kind of security.

What is the alternative you hypothesize?

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 00:25
That's assuming you climb your way to the top of the pyramid, or near the top at least, for you to be able to appreciate these things and have that power...and assuming it's not a retail corporation or something, unless that interests you ;)

Also, I wouldn't want that. Maybe I'm just crazy :p

If your the owner, life is great. As a manager, it's okay. As a worker, it's a grind. I worked in several very large corporations(100 billion+) in my career as a manager/director. They have interesting work but work is work! All that mattered was selling/promotion. If you were high enough, you were insulated from the problems of the world. This is the lure...

CyberP
19th May 2014, 00:29
All that mattered was selling/promotion. I couldn't smile all the time :D

Apex of life.

Eh, I'm sure there are some corporations that are all-round decent in how they operate, and also great to work for. Though I'd always be suspicious of how they rose to hold a dominant position on a specific market if their history is not well documented. But I am suspicious of everyone, healthy suspicion :)

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 00:34
What is the alternative you hypothesize?

I haven't that worked out. Profit I think gives people an incentive to take advantage. This is why places like Africa as a whole will never get into the game because unless someone can take something/gain they have no incentive or responsibility to help their fellowman. Who wants to do business with people who only want to profit off you? One day you'll realize your not the hunter but the prey!

CyberP
19th May 2014, 00:45
Our natural selfishness is for the greater good. Evolution of economy, technology, way of life.
Sucks but it is how it is, as long as people don't get too greedy and have mutual basic respect for one another :)

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 00:48
Our natural selfishness is for the greater good. Evolution of economy, technology, way of life.
Sucks but it is how it is, as long as people don't get too greedy/have mutual respect for one another :)

For who's greater good? The self person only wants more for herself/himself. How much should they have? That's like a person that goes to all-you can eat buffett and actually tries to eat everything. It's just ridiculous. How does that benefit me? I could take advantage of that but that doesn't make me a better person maybe richer :-)

CyberP
19th May 2014, 00:53
Because the wonderful lifestyles we have today in developed nations, and the ability for us to even be able to discuss this now (internet, computers, IP companies, electricity, accomodation), was driven by/built from personal desire and/or selfishness. The slavery by the British Empire, Romans, Egyptians etc is a perfect example of our selfishness building the world we live in today, a weird as that sounds. We have benefited from the messed up **** of our ancestors.
Slavery still exists today in the developed world in some form, it's called wage slavery =/

Like you said, we only want to do tedious things if there is something to gain. Most types of work is tedious. Only a lucky portion get to do something they find so enjoyable that they would do it for free, like me ;)

In all seriousness, modding is an established system and I'd like to earn some cash for it, but for now I do it for free on my own terms and I quite like it.
Will go indie one of these days...

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 01:15
Because the wonderful lifestyles we have today in developed nations, and the ability for us to even be able to discuss this now (internet, computers, IP companies, electricity, accomodation), was driven by/built from personal desire and/or selfishness. The slavery by the British Empire, Romans, Egyptians etc is a perfect example of our selfishness building the world we live in today, a weird as that sounds. We have benefited from the messed up **** of our ancestors.
Slavery still exists today in the developed world in some form, it's called wage slavery =/

Like you said, we only want to do tedious things if there is something to gain. Most types of work is tedious. Only a lucky portion get to do something they find so enjoyable that they would do it for free, like me ;)

In all seriousness, modding is an established system and I'd like to earn some cash for it, but for now I do it for free on my own terms and I quite like it.
Will go indie one of these days...

As I said before, I don't have all the answers. Each person's life path is different. Software is a promising field, you can't go wrong there.

Shralla
19th May 2014, 01:25
I didn't really have choice...I wasn't going to defect. I'm not a traitor. Win or Loss...I stand for loyalty

A monster with justification, the worst kind of monster indeed!

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 01:48
The wheel turns...crushing all hope and dignity...

There's always someone worse, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxqkCVcpJwU

CyberP
19th May 2014, 14:00
There's always someone worse, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxqkCVcpJwU

Lol.

Since when are vending machines destructible? I guess it's because that one is attached to a mover, or it could simply be invincible=false but I doubt that because the devs liked their world consistency (naturally).

Hmm, just looked. It's not attached to a mover, it IS a mover with the vending machine tex slapped on and highlighting=off. This means you cannot buy soda/interact directly with it. Doesn't really matter I suppose but it is an inconsistency (that I cannot be bothered to fix).

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 14:31
I will say this about the original. They have some of best character dialogue.

JC: "Do you have anything specific to tell me?"
Homeless Kid: "Go to Hell" Just classic.

CyberP
19th May 2014, 22:03
If you are enjoying the game and it's story, then talk to everyone until their dialogue loops. A lot of NPC's have insane amounts of dialogue.

Nicolette at the chateau is a notable one.

ResidentX
19th May 2014, 22:07
If you are enjoying the game and it's story, then talk to everyone until their dialogue loops. A lot of NPC's have insane amounts of dialogue.

Nicolette at the chateau is a notable one.

I noticed that. In DE:HR, there was limited amount and you couldn't talk to the NPCs again when it was done but in this game they added dialogue to beef up the game so you can just keep on going back. This one of the reasons I'm taking so long to move through the game.

CyberP
19th May 2014, 22:11
Yes, DX:HR's NPCs were disappointing in an overall sense, at least when compared to Deus Ex. No other games I am aware of do it like Deus Ex, that being quality AND quantity.
Though granted HR had all those animations, decently detailed models etc. For Eidos Montreal to reach the content levels and design genius of DX1 whilst having the visual detail of modern standards, they would have pulled off a miracle. I sure hope they try with DX4, and ditch the silly design compromises also.
Unfortunately they are owned by a corporation though, and we all know the mentality of those...though again I believe a true masterpiece won't go unnoticed on today's market and do a hell of a lot of good for Square Enix and the industry.
Another thing is, do Eidos Montreal even have the design talent/leadership for a "true masterpiece"?

Repeating myself again.

CyberP
22nd May 2014, 11:35
Mind=Blown. Turns out slavery is more prevalent today than ever before, though somewhat attributed to exponential population growth in recent times.


Slavery is officially illegal in all countries, but there are still an estimated 20 million to 30 million slaves worldwide.[3][4] Mauritania was the last jurisdiction to officially outlaw slavery (in 1981/2007), but about 10% to 20% of its population is estimated to live in slavery.[5][6]

Slavery predates written records and has existed in many cultures.[7] Most slaves today are debt slaves, largely in South Asia, who are under debt bondage incurred by lenders, sometimes even for generations.[8] Human trafficking is primarily used for forcing women and children into sex industries.[9]

30 million? Bonkers world.

ResidentX
25th May 2014, 04:10
I escaped the MJ12 facility underneath Unatco. I beat/shutdown the robots in the armory and got to the good stuff. I'm pleased to announce that Anna Navarre is no more..."execute order 66..."

I sent her on a "special mission" signed with the RPG(HeHe). My most satisfying moment of the game so far! Pieces of her were everywhere...no talk just the threads of destiny!

Gunther wasn't too happy about the outcome. I think him and her were trading augments or something. I hate office romancers :-) I'll punch his ticket later.

I'm in the People's Republic of China now...next stop Tracer Tong.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 02:11
I made it out of Hong Kong Finally. What a trip...

This was a huge map...the waterboats, Versalife, Maggie Chow, and Tracer. I had to actually read everything to get around. So much useless space but I'm back in NYC now.

My past has caught up with me..."one day your realize your not the hunter but the PREY!"

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=266693231

There is a bug in NYC, my character has slowed down again
I like the dragontooth sword though...

Shralla
3rd Jun 2014, 02:22
Are you SURE you're not just missing a leg?

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 02:30
Are you SURE you're not just missing a leg?

No, I go to the free clinic(health/repair bot) after every encounter now. When I zone back to the outside I slow down.
I had to use the dragontooth's blade in close quarters with all the soldiers Unatco has sent after me...I'm lucky to still be alive.
Do you know who hard it is to fight while basically walking?

Shralla
3rd Jun 2014, 04:37
Maybe your walk/run got activated somehow? Either shift or caps lock.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 13:38
Maybe your walk/run got activated somehow? Either shift or caps lock.

I appreciate the help but it's a bug. Like I said, when I zone I return to normal.

Can I ask a question. In Hong Kong, I would saw these moving boats, can you board those?

CyberP
3rd Jun 2014, 14:25
I appreciate the help but it's a bug. Like I said, when I zone I return to normal.

Can I ask a question. In Hong Kong, I would saw these moving boats, can you board those?

You cannot. I will rectify this, thanks for the idea :)

It was one of few major inconsistencies in DX's world.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 14:43
HK was hard. It was difficult because you could just wonder too much with no direction. I waste a lot of time with nothing to show(no loot, augs, etc.) I actually had to use the flashlight in some areas. I was even mobbed/robbed once/twice. I found two guys doing a drug deal and after they finished...one shot the other and ran out and came right at me. I never had this kind of randomness in DE:HR. After that I started reading everything again.

CyberP
3rd Jun 2014, 14:49
HK was hard. It was difficult because you could just wonder too much with no direction

Yeah it could have used 1 or 2 more signposts pointing to Tonnochi road + the market.


I waste a lot of time with nothing to show(no loot, augs, etc.)

There's plenty loot about.


I was even mobbed/robbed once/twice. I found two guys doing a drug deal and after they finished...one shot the other and ran out and came right at me. I never had this kind of randomness in DE:HR. After that I started reading everything again.

You were a witness.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 14:56
Yeah it could have used 1 or 2 more signposts pointing to Tonnochi road + the market.



There's plenty loot about.



You were a witness.

The signs were fine. The map was what I want improved. I had to trial and error my way around. About the loot, I hated not having space for the good stuff. I was always having to drop stuff. Some of the items just took up too much space. The existing loot was stuff I already had. Also, I wanted more augs. Finally, the hazsuits. WTF? Even when I use them they seem worthless because I'm dying when I use them.

"You were a witness..", lol. I replayed that section again because it was so bizarre and hid off to the side and he still found me and tried to attack me. Things like this are the reasons why I feel the Dues Ex AI is better than DE:HR. Random stuff like this makes the game interesting.

CyberP
3rd Jun 2014, 15:14
The signs were fine. The map was what I want improved. I had to trial and error my way around.

I don't see a problem with the map as a whole. Just a couple more signs would be good, and being able to ask an NPC for directions would be good too.


About the loot, I hated not having space for the good stuff. Some of the items just took up too much space.

The inventory size for the most part is fine. You cannot have everything.
The only problem I had was the ridiculous size of the heavy weapons which didn't justify carrying them around, the GEP gun being the only exception. Law too but it is more of a use it as soon as you find it weapon.


Also, I wanted more augs.

There are about 20 in total. Would be cool if there were more (three part system) but there is plenty enough. Or maybe a whole other set of augs that are all passive but only give minor boosts. Or this and the three part system of active augs. Either way it is great for what it is, but there indeed could always be more.


"You were a witness..", lol. I replayed that section again and hid off to the side and he still found me and tried to attack me.

But you have to walk up to them to trigger this event in the first place. Yeah this event is not perfect, but hey, the game as a whole is not perfect. Mods bring it closer but it will never be "perfect".

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 15:23
I don't see a problem with the map as a whole. Just a couple more signs would be good, and being able to ask an NPC for directions would be good too.



The inventory size for the most part is fine. You cannot have everything.
The only problem I had was the ridiculous size of the heavy weapons which didn't justify carrying them around, the GEP gun being the only exception.



There are about 20 in total. Would be cool if there were more (three part system) but there is plenty enough.



But you have to walk up to them to trigger this event in the first place. Yeah this event is not perfect, but hey, the game as a whole is not perfect.


My comments are just comments. The games nice, HK took a lot of energy.

About the map, they should just remove the map and then you'll be forced to figure it out. I felt it contrasted with the previous map images where you were given great detail.

About the weapons, I haven't used the gep gun yet. I've seen it. Flame and RPG are my favorites so far.

Augments, I'm losing the fight here. I think I have found one/two aug(quiet walking and some type of arm aug) and I upgraded the walking to 3 of 4 but the soldiers still hear me come. I'm trying to play this game without the augs honestly, they don't add anything to me. I rarely turn them on because they use up the bioelectric energy cells.

CyberP
3rd Jun 2014, 15:26
About the map, they should just remove the map and then you'll be forced to figure it out. I felt it contrasted with the previous map images where you were given great detail.

Oh, you're talking about the map image :D Yeah some could do with an update.


Augments, I'm losing the fight here. I think I have found one/two aug(quiet walking and some type of arm aug) and I upgraded the walking to 3 of 4 but the soldiers still hear me come. I'm trying to play this game without the augs honestly, they don't add anything to me. I rarely turn them on.

The augs add a lot to the game. Especially speed enhancement, the two cloaking augs, the two vision augs, regen aug obviously (when it isn't rediculously OP), spy drone and ADS is good, ballistic protection...two arm augs are good but not quite as useful as these.
The usefulness of the others is a stark contrast, I've tried to resolve that but it's still not perfect.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 15:30
About the "Witness" I have to avoid that area completely to not trigger that section. The deal goes down whether you approach or not. I've watched from afar and it still triggers.

CyberP
3rd Jun 2014, 15:36
About the "Witness" I have to avoid that area completely to not trigger that section. The deal goes down whether you approach or not. I've watched from afar and it still triggers.

You have to walk up to them first to get them to start talking. Maybe it's a flaw (cant be bothered to look into it right now), but these scripts usually go naturally/as intended for most players. You are purposely trying to break the script. There could be some additional conditions such as checking the distance from the player to the NPCs or some such, or made it a full blown conversation where control is taken away from the player, but I prefer this more organic approach.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 15:37
Oh, you're talking about the map image :D Yeah some could do with an update.



The augs add a lot to the game. Especially speed enhancement, the two cloaking augs, the two vision augs, regen aug obviously (when it isn't rediculously OP), spy drone and ADS is good, ballistic protection...two arm augs are good but not quite as useful as these.
The usefulness of the others is a stark contrast, I've tried to resolve that but it's still not perfect.

We disagreed here. The game is different than DE: HR in that you can't go full frontal with augments. In this game, they have layered the game where you will get served if you use those tactics. This is the saving grace of this game. Honestly, I could play this game with pistol only because it's about strategy. MJ12 is too well armed. I go into enemy territory and they have tons of soldiers and robots. I get in and and get out. Using force is only when I'm desperate.

CyberP
3rd Jun 2014, 15:47
We disagreed here. The game is different than DE: HR in that you could go full frontal with augments.

You can still do that in DX1, though yes you still have to use your head a lot more.

You didn't get Speed Enhancement. Speed enhancement changes everything, even for stealth.
There are plenty augs you can go full frontal with. After more game time/with a different build you'll see.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 15:49
You can still do that in DX1, though yes you still have to use your head a lot more.

Maybe second round of play but right now I'm don't wont to be bothered with the aug system(hate the time limits). I can reach my goals without them.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 15:52
You have to walk up to them first to get them to start talking. Maybe it's a flaw (cant be bothered to look into it right now), but these scripts usually go naturally/as intended for most players. You are purposely trying to break the script. There could be some additional conditions such as checking the distance from the player to the NPCs or some such, or made it a full blown conversation where control is taken away from the player, but I prefer this more organic approach.

Nope, not true..."seeing" them will trigger it.

CyberP
3rd Jun 2014, 15:53
Nope, not true..."seeing" them will trigger it.

There are no events such as these triggered by line of sight.

Edit: just tested it and you have to walk right up to them for the conversation to begin.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 16:04
There are no events such as these triggered by line of sight.

Edit: just tested it and you have to walk right up to them for the conversation to begin.

How close do you have to get? I've triggered it by not walking right up to them.

ResidentX
3rd Jun 2014, 16:06
test this, you don't have to do this now. Walk past them and stand in the area just past them and wait at the corner. One will leave and come at you shortly.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 14:56
I'm having a good week with this game. I'm heading to Vandenburg Base now. Paris was fun. Even though I encountered so many doors locked to me that I couldn't open. :-(

I still haven't used the augments much but I've upgraded the skills. I've got the "see through wall" aug so I'll probably start using them more. The skills though are the hidden gems in this game. I'm getting noticeable improvements with them.

The other comment I want to make is about the maps. This is the only game I've played where I can "fall into" situations. I give the devs credits for the level designs. I never experienced this in DE: HR. This keeps happening to me again and again in this game. When I was heading toward the cathedral in Paris. I was spotted so they start coming at me. I back up and fall off the ledge into the water. I flip on the light and I see this tunnel. At this point in the game I've got about 10,000 skills points so I upgrade all the swim skills.

JC swam so fast I started laughing.

I think I'm ready for the Olympics now, lol :-) The rebreather aug was useless though...

Also, I took out Gunther. He was waiting for me and taunting me over the infolink. I tried LAMs to kill him but he kept dodging or was in protect mode and wouldn't go down. I blew up everything in the room except him, lol.

Nicole Duclare was a bore...walking around with her in the chateau really got on my nerves. There is nothing worse than listening to French people try to speak broken English. I did want to have with sex with her though.

CyberP
11th Jun 2014, 16:01
Nicole Duclare was a bore...walking around with her in the chateau really got on my nerves. There is nothing worse than listening to French people try to speak broken English. I did want to have with sex with her though.

:lol:

One of the most iconic moments of the game ruined because you dislike English-speaking Frenchies...

By the way, 10,000 skill points? You are meant to be spending those on occasional intervals...and you spent them on swimming vanilla, late in the game no less? Wow.
I thought you'd go for the weapon skills.

And yes, the level design is fantastic. Most modern games cannot hold a candle to the level design of golden oldies.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 16:11
The weapons in this game has plenty of juice thanks to mod upgrades I find. I have telescope, extra capacity, faster reload, and harmonic influence on almost all my weapons. Occasionally, I find an RPG or flamethrower and use them up. In the Cathedral, I found a female aug who self-destructed when I killed her so I used the RPG on her from outside the room so I could enter it safely.

I'm a saver. I haven't really had a reason to use/upgrade. To upgrade augs, you have to have that medibot and I don't find them enough so I've started tossing the augs to get the space back. I just think their too much effort for the potential return. When I met Everett, that was the first time in the game, I had access to several aug upgrades at once and the medibot.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 16:18
I love the French don't get me wrong but I just don't like it when people can't speak clean English. Some find it cute but I find it just irritating having to listen to the noise. What was so Iconic about it? Useless prattle in my opinion...

Shralla
11th Jun 2014, 16:33
If you have 10k skill points in Paris, that is EXACTLY why you are having such a hard time with the gams. And then to waste nearly all of them on a worthless skill? I can't even. Your weapon skills can't be any further than the second level.

WildcatPhoenix
11th Jun 2014, 16:36
Nicole Duclare was a bore...walking around with her in the chateau really got on my nerves. There is nothing worse than listening to French people try to speak broken English. I did want to have with sex with her though.

I don't...I don't even know what to do with this.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 16:37
If you have 10k skill points in Paris, that is EXACTLY why you are having such a hard time with the gams. And then to waste nearly all of them on a worthless skill? I can't even. Your weapon skills can't be any further than the second level.

I didn't waste them. I have encountered water a lot in this game...

About the weapons, I'm reaching my goals with what I got. I have no complaints. The Dragon's tooth is quite handy...
I can break down doors and locks with it.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 16:39
I'm a dog what can I say...

I tried to inspect her "goodies' closer but she kept running away from me every time I tried to get close...:D

68_pie
11th Jun 2014, 16:46
I have encountered water a lot in this game...

...said nobody else ever.

CyberP
11th Jun 2014, 16:46
I'm a saver. I haven't really had a reason to use/upgrade. To upgrade augs, you have to have that medibot and I don't find them enough so I've started tossing the augs to get the space back. I just think their too much effort for the potential return. When I met Everett, that was the first time in the game, I had access to several aug upgrades at once and the medibot.

To install augs you need to be at a medbot. To upgrade augs you only need to go to the augs section of the interface.


...said nobody else ever.

Eh, there's a body of water on nearly every map. Just all the methods of dealing with water made it a non-issue.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 16:50
I misspoke here. I mean access to NEW aug features. I know you can upgrade them on the fly.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 16:53
About the water, the problems I had were related to the timing. Sometimes, I never had enough air to make the swims. If I found something I couldn't get it or something or I have to find a place to come up for air(tradeoffs). With the swim upgrades I don't have this issue I can get the goods and rapidly get to where I'm going.

CyberP
11th Jun 2014, 16:58
Don't worry, I've made the silly mistake of wasting points in swimming vanilla before also. It really is a complete waste if you have regen aug.

Just play how you want, that's part of the fun. After a few playthoughs all the flaws of the systems will be more evident though. It's impossible to get a solid grip of the workings of all systems in your first playthrough because you cannot have it all.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 17:00
Don't worry, I've wasted points in swimming vanilla before also. It really is a complete waste if you have regen aug though.

Regen or rebreather?

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 17:01
This is my first run in this game. I'm not going to make perfect decisions. My comments are really around the dynamics of the game. I just like how setbacks can spring you way ahead in this game. Some of these areas I would have never discovered...

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 17:04
Speaking of setbacks, in the cathedral after Gunther, I ran into a room/hallway/stairwell with 2 doors. I went into the room and door slide closed behind me and I was locked in with no way out. I think one of the doors required 4-5 tools and the other was just "locked"... I gave this two tries and then reloaded a saved file.

CyberP
11th Jun 2014, 17:06
Regen or rebreather?

Both.

Here's the lowdown on the systems. Top being the go-to choice.

Regen even at lvl1 completely negates drowning damage with little cost.
Rebreathers last a long time without needing to upgrade environmental training skill, but are not always readily available.

Swimming skill is not worth the skill points because of the above.
Aqualung aug is the most useless of them all, but can be combined with swim skill for greater effect at least.


Speaking of setbacks, in the cathedral after Gunther, I ran into a room/hallway/stairwell with 2 doors. I went into the room and door slide closed behind me and I was locked in with no way out. I think one of the doors required 4-5 tools and the other was just "locked"... I gave this two tries and then reloaded a saved file.

If I remember correctly there is a hidden switch to get back out.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 17:13
Both.

Here's the lowdown on the systems. Top being the go-to choice.

Regen even at lvl1 completely negates drowning damage with little cost.
Rebreathers last a long time without needing to upgrade environmental training skill, but are not always readily available.

Swimming skill is not worth the skill points because of the above.
Aqualung aug is the most useless of them all, but can be combined with swim skill for greater effect at least.

I wish you could see how fast I was swimming. I felt like I was running. I used maybe 25% of my air over 2 long stretches.

CyberP
11th Jun 2014, 17:15
Oh I know. "Like a dolphin", just as the skill description says :)

Swim skill taken at face value is good, but it's worth is still negated by regen in the vanilla game, and to some extent rebreathers too.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 17:19
If I remember correctly there is a hidden switch to get back out.

I looked but the door merged with the wall and I couldn't find it. Let me see I can get a snapshot of it. I save the game every couple 1-2 minutes because I don't now what to expect.

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 17:32
Take a look at these:

1. you go up here, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=269814630
2. here' the door with the switch on the "inside" http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=269814640
3. This is the door closed and merged with no switch, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=269814665
4. This the area for context, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=269814677

CyberP
11th Jun 2014, 17:32
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/CyberP1/show_zps5706d142.jpg

See that purple outline on the wall in the 3D viewport? It's a hidden lever.

Lol @ your complete lack of augs in your pics. :p

You don't even have regen which is given to you right next to a medbot!

ResidentX
11th Jun 2014, 17:35
A hidden lever? Really? How am I suppose to find this? Is this practice used a lot in the game?

CyperP, are you one of the original devs?

CyberP
11th Jun 2014, 17:44
A hidden lever? Really? How am I suppose to find this?

Hmm, see the light on the wall in your second third & fourth screenshot? That's it.


Is this practice used a lot in the game?

Occasionally. There is much replayability in this game and finding all the hidden stuff is part of it :)


CyperP, are you one of the original devs?

Pfft, I wish. Just a huge gamer and modder, big fan of the Immersive Sims especially, Deus Ex being my favourite.

WildcatPhoenix
11th Jun 2014, 17:49
CyperP, are you one of the original devs?

The guys at Ion Storm were awesome enough to release a free SDK (software development kit) with the Game of the Year Edition Deus Ex back in 2000-2001. That's how all these user-made mods are released. The screenshot above is taken from the Unreal Editor window. CyberP's been active in the mod community for awhile now.

I would give just about any of my possessions/spare organs/limbs for Eidos Montreal to give us some kind of mod tools with DX4.

CyberP
11th Jun 2014, 17:53
I would give just about any of my possessions/spare organs/limbs for Eidos Montreal to give us some kind of mod tools with DX4.

You'll have to mod with your face ;)

Jito463
17th Jun 2014, 14:26
Personally, ResidentX, I always put points into swimming as well. Ignore CyberP, his mind is set that it's worthless and nothing will change it. That's his prerogative, but I find it useful. If you do too, then go ahead and put points into it. Don't let anyone else tell you how to play the game. The great thing about Deus Ex is there are lots of ways to play it. That is what's so great about having choices for different builds.

ResidentX
17th Jun 2014, 15:03
Personally, ResidentX, I always put points into swimming as well. Ignore CyberP, his mind is set that it's worthless and nothing will change it. That's his prerogative, but I find it useful. If you do too, then go ahead and put points into it. Don't let anyone else tell you how to play the game. The great thing about Deus Ex is there are lots of ways to play it. That is what's so great about having choices for different builds.

Hey Jito463, thanks for the comments.

I like this board because everyone's allowed to speak their mind. The moderators work hard also to make sure that "openness" reigns here. It works best when thoughts are free to be expressed without imputing wrong motives. When I started playing the Original Deus Ex, I had some problems. CyberP has added comments that has made the game more fun to play. Because of his background with modding, he probably knows things about the game I don't. I value his comments.

CyberP
17th Jun 2014, 15:32
@Noble Knight Jito: I guess you missed this post:


Don't worry, I've made the silly mistake of wasting points in swimming vanilla before also. It really is a complete waste if you have regen aug.

Just play how you want, that's part of the fun. After a few playthoughs all the flaws of the systems will be more evident though. It's impossible to get a solid grip of the workings of all systems in your first playthrough because you cannot have it all.

Shralla
17th Jun 2014, 18:13
Personally, ResidentX, I always put points into swimming as well. Ignore CyberP, his mind is set that it's worthless and nothing will change it.

That's the mindset of pretty much everybody who's ever played the game. It's hardly a viewpoint unique to him or even to a minority of people. Swimming skill is useless because you get disposable items and augs that make it useless. You can always drop something and pick something up, but you can't ever get back the skill points you spent on it, which could have been used on something much more useful.



I like this board because everyone's allowed to speak their mind. The moderators work hard also to make sure that "openness" reigns here.

Ahahaha. You wish, I wish, we all wish.

ResidentX
17th Jun 2014, 18:32
That's the mindset of pretty much everybody who's ever played the game. It's hardly a viewpoint unique to him or even to a minority of people. Swimming skill is useless because you get disposable items and augs that make it useless. You can always drop something and pick something up, but you can't ever get back the skill points you spent on it, which could have been used on something much more useful.

Shralla, I've played Deus Ex and have still not used any of my augments. I bought swimming skills and I felt I got my money's worth. If I play this game again, I'll try the options you mentioned above.



Ahahaha. You wish, I wish, we all wish.

The mods are slow here but they read everything. I was "visited" once by them.

ResidentX
17th Jun 2014, 18:48
While I'm here let me give you an update on my progress. Over the weekend, I rescued Tiger Striped Tiffany from the abandoned gas station. Interesting mission...usually when you go inside doors the guards don't follow but they opened Tiffany's to get me. I loved Jock's message, "I'm getting a reading about female being killed, we failed!!"

It took me ten replays to string together the right combos to do this quickly. A few times my LAM caught Tiffany because the door was open.

These game designer must of had a thing for east coast girls. All the girls have NJ/NYC accents. "Are you sure it's safe?"

CyberP
17th Jun 2014, 20:16
These game designer must of had a thing for east coast girls. All the girls have NJ/NYC accents. "Are you sure it's safe?"

There was only like 6-7 female voice actors or so. I say only but DX had quite a few VAs for the time. Even now actually.


Shralla, I've played Deus Ex and have still not used any of my augments. I bought swimming skills and I felt I got my money's worth.

With that perspective, yes, you got your money's worth. That doesn't mean the systems are balanced though. I'm pretty sure swimming is all you spent points on too, in addition to your lack of augs. bro do you even game lyke how cann you play all jew sex wifout investing in rpg systems i no its possible 2 beat jew sex wifout any investments butt i didnt thought the humen brain cud resist such temptasions

ResidentX
18th Jun 2014, 02:00
I'm at the MJ12 Sub Base and they have this huge underwater base. I feel total vindicated about the swim skills now.

Scanning...

I think I'm near the end of this game. I might save this section for Friday.

EricaLeeV
18th Jun 2014, 02:04
I think I'm near the end of this game. I might save this section for Friday.

I'm gonna say you are at like the 75-80% mark.

ResidentX
21st Jun 2014, 20:00
I played most of Vandenberg last night. I hit the wall when I tried to leave.

The Missile Silo is packed full of those self-destructing new age agents. I'm low on life too. I may have to use my augmentations finally...

Honestly, I think I'm going to have to replay this section though. I need more health packs, locks and tools. A better ranged weapon too. I came across the gep gun but I left it. Big mistake...

Just some other comments:

-I swam a lot. I can outswim those hybrid dogs/rats/birds or whatever they are. Again the Dragon's Tooth came in handy. I can use it underwater and it one shot kills them.

-I dropped TNT on the super spider from above(bridge walkway) and that took care of him.

-Scientist girls, they were handy in this level. They gave codes and other information. I killed them in other parts of the game before because they'll trigger the alarms.

-The automated turrets, I used up all my extra body armour getting past them.

- In lots of sections in this level, I just blew past the lasers and hid till the alarms quieted. I didn't have enough tools or lock picks...

-Bob Page doesn't seem to be the engaging guy he was in DE:HR. He seems more primal here.

I do have one question. Just before I went into here, there was an hidden duct behind me here, http://1drv.ms/1uQ1vNH
I wasted about 45 minutes moving through this area. I killed the green things but when I opened the ducts(6-8) moving turbines or something were in the way that I couldn't get past by crouching. Why create a level just for distraction?

WildcatPhoenix
21st Jun 2014, 20:05
-Bob Page doesn't seem to be the engaging guy he was in DE:HR. He seems more primal here.

He has a lot more power at this stage of the timeline than in 2027, when DXHR is set. In 2052, Page basically runs the world and is, he believes ***SPOILERS***






... only hours/days away from realizing his vision of becoming the first human to merge with an artificial intelligence (and effectively become omniscient and immortal).

He doesn't feel the need to be charming or engaging at this point.