PDA

View Full Version : Instinct 2.0



S3R6i0
12th Apr 2014, 22:14
Seeing as there was much confusion in the original thread, and because I get off on this and have nothing better to do, I will start a new thread, reiterating my original position. In Absolution, the term Instinct encompasses many features of the game; point shooting, the radar for NPC's and points of interest, and the disguise by-pass where 47 covers his face.

This topic is just about the radar (or X-Ray vision for some of you) that displays NPC's, items and points of interest, i.e., loose railings, electrical rooms, etc.

Please do not bring up the disguise system as a reason to trash the radar, and don't coin both features into one as a reason to remove Instinct from the next Hitman.

Just try to imagine Absolution with Blood Money's disguise system, and just focus on the radar.

That being said, I think the next Hitman should have the radar (or X-Ray vision) from Absolution instead of the overview map. I find the map to be less immersive. The radar displays all NPC's in a spheric radius around Agent 47, which means 47 is aware if someone is walking down a staircase down to his level, which is a reasonable request, I'm sure, to anyone regardless of your preference. You just can't do that with a top-down overview map without having to play around with 2 or 3 different maps depending on the level. I found that to be annoying.

The radar displays every NPC in a spheric radius for about 20 to 25 feet, in 47's vicinity. Whereas the overview map displays every NPC on every floor of every building for 5 blocks. Points of interest, as well. There's less room to explore because you know where most, if not every connection is from the beginning of the level just by checking the map. With the radar you actually have to go out and search for the clues.

Granted, the radar system in Absolution wasn't perfect. In Absolution you could traverse an entire level with the radar on. Maybe there should be limits placed on it like a bar that depletes and regenerates, but is otherwise, always active as long as you stand still.

Since IO is bringing Hitman back to it's roots, I feel this is an overlooked area. While I want the traditional Hitman gameplay back I don't think we need to bring back the overview map. It's less immersive, more annoying and a step backwards, IMO.

RoboCop
13th Apr 2014, 00:47
Seeing as there was much confusion in the original thread, and because I get off on this and have nothing better to do, I will start a new thread, reiterating my original position. In Absolution, the term Instinct encompasses many features of the game; point shooting, the radar for NPC's and points of interest, and the disguise by-pass where 47 covers his face.

This topic is just about the radar (or X-Ray vision for some of you) that displays NPC's, items and points of interest, i.e., loose railings, electrical rooms, etc.

Please do not bring up the disguise system as a reason to trash the radar, and don't coin both features into one as a reason to remove Instinct from the next Hitman.

Just try to imagine Absolution with Blood Money's disguise system, and just focus on the radar.

That being said, I think the next Hitman should have the radar (or X-Ray vision) from Absolution instead of the overview map. I find the map to be less immersive. The radar displays all NPC's in a spheric radius around Agent 47, which means 47 is aware if someone is walking down a staircase down to his level, which is a reasonable request, I'm sure, to anyone regardless of your preference. You just can't do that with a top-down overview map without having to play around with 2 or 3 different maps depending on the level. I found that to be annoying.

The radar displays every NPC in a spheric radius for about 20 to 25 feet, in 47's vicinity. Whereas the overview map displays every NPC on every floor of every building for 5 blocks. Points of interest, as well. There's less room to explore because you know where most, if not every connection is from the beginning of the level just by checking the map. With the radar you actually have to go out and search for the clues.

Granted, the radar system in Absolution wasn't perfect. In Absolution you could traverse an entire level with the radar on. Maybe there should be limits placed on it like a bar that depletes and regenerates, but is otherwise, always active as long as you stand still.

Since IO is bringing Hitman back to it's roots, I feel this is an overlooked area. While I want the traditional Hitman gameplay back I don't think we need to bring back the overview map. It's less immersive, more annoying and a step backwards, IMO.

imo you cant separate navigation with the disguise system. it doesnt matter if there was radar or map in blood money b/c it was so easy like someone else said. for the earlier games, if there was radar than the whole challenge of the game would be gone. there are some levels in hitman 2 and contracts that were nerve wrecking because of the suspense caused by the map

x-ray vision would be ok if the disguise system complemented it

RoboCop
13th Apr 2014, 01:09
I understand what you mean about the suspense. Pressing the select button that brought you into the overview map screen, rendering you vulnerable, and having to navigate between rooms and floors. That's why I said that the radar wasn't perfect and there could be ways to offset that, like forcing the player to stand still or making the in-game 3D radar scarce with an energy bar that depletes and regenerate.

I just don't like being yanked from the game to view a map. It kills the immersion and the system is a little dated. To balance the game to add tension they should focus on the enemy AI, making the NPC's more aware and harder to sneak up behind.

yeah it's a fine line and i bet thats why they included instinct in absolution.

i know what you mean about the immersion killer. its suspense vs immersion

im sure they are brainstorming ways to make radar/map more immersive and practical

S3R6i0
13th Apr 2014, 01:15
imo you cant separate navigation with the disguise system...

Why not?

I understand what you mean about the suspense. Pressing the select button that brought you into the overview map screen, rendering you vulnerable, and having to navigate between rooms and floors. That's why I said that the radar wasn't perfect and there could be ways to offset that, like forcing the player to stand still or making the in-game 3D radar scarce with an energy bar that depletes and regenerate and in some cases, making you wait for it to regenerate, forcing you to be economical with it.

I just don't like being yanked from the game to view a map. It kills the immersion and the system is a little dated. To balance the game to add tension they should focus on the enemy AI, making the NPC's more aware and harder to sneak up behind.

RoboCop
13th Apr 2014, 01:22
Why not?

I understand what you mean about the suspense. Pressing the select button that brought you into the overview map screen, rendering you vulnerable, and having to navigate between rooms and floors. That's why I said that the radar wasn't perfect and there could be ways to offset that, like forcing the player to stand still or making the in-game 3D radar scarce with an energy bar that depletes and regenerate and in some cases, making you wait for it to regenerate, forcing you to be economical with it.

I just don't like being yanked from the game to view a map. It kills the immersion and the system is a little dated. To balance the game to add tension they should focus on the enemy AI, making the NPC's more aware and harder to sneak up behind.

uhh no. not the regeneration thing again. that is a really really bad idea. the combat in the game isnt that great so the map/radar is a must. limiting that would break the game.

S3R6i0
13th Apr 2014, 01:45
When I say regeneration you automatically think back to the disguise system. Keep in mind, you can still move around and not be detected, this has nothing to do with the disguise, you just won't be able to run through the entire level with the radar on. Anyway it was only a suggestion.

A better idea would be forcing 47 to stand still while using the radar, a sort of Focus or Inspection mode.

The overview map is not the end all solution to this.

RoboCop
13th Apr 2014, 19:29
When I say regeneration you automatically think back to the disguise system. Keep in mind, you can still move around and not be detected, this has nothing to do with the disguise, you just won't be able to run through the entire level with the radar on. Anyway it was only a suggestion.

A better idea would be forcing 47 to stand still while using the radar, a sort of Focus or Inspection mode.

The overview map is not the end all solution to this.

I believe you couldn't use instinct (the radar) forever on higher difficulties in Absolution. You had to regenerate it.
Nothing personal against you, but I don't really like that idea. Standing still while using instinct would screw depth perception. The map seems like something that gets the job done without complicating things to much. maybe io could implement both

gkkiller
14th Apr 2014, 10:18
The map would be perfect if it only showed the building layout and not the NPC locations as well. That would be more realistic - it could be explained away as Agency scouts / 47 casing out the joint. Oh, and when you got close enough to your target, you could be notified in some way. My ideas: either Diana comes over your earpiece and tells you, or you get a quick button prompt (hold Y to identify target). And if the levels are as big as they promise, then they could include in the briefing a mention of his approximate location, e.g "We believe your target is on the roof."

Itsrob
15th Apr 2014, 04:30
I disagree. X-ray vision is stupid.

S3R6i0
15th Apr 2014, 04:54
I disagree. X-ray vision is stupid.

It's in Last of Us, Metal Gear Solid V, Assassin's Creed and others. So obviously it's not stupid.

RoboCop
15th Apr 2014, 15:48
It's in Last of Us, Metal Gear Solid V, Assassin's Creed and others. So obviously it's not stupid.

Driving is in GTA and Forza. Gliding is in Batman games. Dead-eye and Bullet Time are in Red Dead Redemption and Max Payne. Climbing walls is in Assassin's Creed. Zombies and infected are in The Last of Us, Left 4 Dead, DayZ, Metro, Crysis, and Gears of War. "Point-shooting" is in Splinter Cell, Fallout 3 (to a point), and Red Dead Redemption.

None of the games I just mentioned are bad. That doesn't mean these features belong in Hitman.

Point-shooting, for me, felt lame because I have seen it used in a bunch of other games and it didn't seem original. Hitman 6 needs to include a unique feature that hasn't been done by another series (in this case, the live map). I know of some other games that try using the live map but don't have anywhere near the success IO has had.

I say, if IO can't make this 'X-ray vision' feature the best in any game (and I don't think they can), then they should leave it alone.

That being said, I think if IO really wants to get the whole "47 is the ultimate assassin with the best abilities", they should include a slow time mechanic. I know, I know, I just got done saying that some features should be unique and not copy from other games. But, as someone from Rockstar commented, what plagues 3rd person shooters is the lack of precise aiming. I find this to be the case in all of the Hitman games as the shooting mechanics are generally horrible. By including an ability to line up your shot, it could fix this problem while at the same time following the mythos IO created. IO has already done this with snipers in Absolution, so all they have to do is extend it to pistols/rifles.

I think what Itsrob is claiming to be stupid is the idea of X-ray vision in Hitman. Sure, the mechanic is not stupid when used correctly in other games (like the Last of Us). However, I feel like X-ray vision is out of place in the Hitman series.

S3R6i0
16th Apr 2014, 04:00
Driving is in GTA and Forza. Gliding is in Batman games. Dead-eye and Bullet Time are in Red Dead Redemption and Max Payne. Climbing walls is in Assassin's Creed. Zombies and infected are in The Last of Us, Left 4 Dead, DayZ, Metro, Crysis, and Gears of War. "Point-shooting" is in Splinter Cell, Fallout 3 (to a point), and Red Dead Redemption.

None of the games I just mentioned are bad. That doesn't mean these features belong in Hitman.

Okay. My point wasn't that Hitman should be a vacuum of every games' best features. I don't where you got that idea.

S3R6i0
16th Apr 2014, 04:05
I believe you couldn't use instinct (the radar) forever on higher difficulties in Absolution. You had to regenerate it.
Nothing personal against you, but I don't really like that idea. Standing still while using instinct would screw depth perception. The map seems like something that gets the job done without complicating things to much. maybe io could implement both

How would standing still screw up depth perception? What are you talking about?

RoboCop
16th Apr 2014, 23:19
Okay. My point wasn't that Hitman should be a vacuum of every games' best features. I don't where you got that idea.

I thought my point was obvious; it's not that Hitman is a "vacuum of every games' features", it's that the argument of 'it was in _(insert game)___' is not very strong.

RoboCop
16th Apr 2014, 23:23
How would standing still screw up depth perception? What are you talking about?

Being forced to stand still while the map's NPCs are shown to you would get confusing. at least for me

S3R6i0
16th Apr 2014, 23:36
Being forced to stand still while the map's NPCs are shown to you would get confusing. at least for me

You mean like the live map? The live map takes you to a different screen. If this is confusing for you I don't know what to tell you.

RoboCop
16th Apr 2014, 23:56
You mean like the live map? The live map takes you to a different screen. If this is confusing for you I don't know what to tell you.

ha ha please don't try to be snarky...you have to be a little smarter for that to work out

and don't put words in my mouth. nobody said anything about being taken to another screen.

Just drop the subject; I realize it's personal preference...nothing to get smart about.

S3R6i0
17th Apr 2014, 02:27
ha ha please don't try to be snarky...you have to be a little smarter for that to work out

and don't put words in my mouth. nobody said anything about being taken to another screen.

Just drop the subject; I realize it's personal preference...nothing to get smart about.

lol! I was actually forcing myself to be polite, being that this is a PC forum. Seriously, saying that standing still while using Instinct confuses you is like saying that pressing on the gas while turing a vehicle confuses you. I get the feeling that people just don't like the Instinct idea and rather than saying so they make up some lame excuse. No offense but that was pretty lame.

RoboCop
17th Apr 2014, 03:14
lol! I was actually forcing myself to be polite, being that this is a PC forum. Seriously, saying that standing still while using Instinct confuses you is like saying that pressing on the gas while turing a vehicle confuses you. I get the feeling that people just don't like the Instinct idea and rather than saying so they make up some lame excuse. No offense but that was pretty lame.

It is obvious to me now that I wasn't articulate. Anyway, I feel that it would be a waste of time to try and explain myself. To each his own.