PDA

View Full Version : Deus Ex: Mankind Divided is Deux Ex 4 title?



Shaikh
28th Mar 2014, 17:16
Square Enix files trademark for Deus Ex: Mankind Divided


On the 14th of March, 2014, Square Enix Ltd filed in the United Kingdom a trademark application for "Deus Ex: Mankind Divided". It entered OHIM's database yesterday, on March 27th.

Trade mark information

Name: DEUS EX: MANKIND DIVIDED
Filing number: 012735353
Basis: CTM
Date of receipt: 27/03/2014
Type:Word
Nature: INDIVIDUAL
Nice classes: 9, 16, 41 ( Nice classification )
Vienna classification
Filing date: 27/03/2014
Registration date:
Expiry date:
Designation date:
Filing language: English
Second language: French
Application reference: JR/AM/N31025
Trade mark status: Application under examination
Acquired distinctiveness: No

Source (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=792557)

CyberP
28th Mar 2014, 17:39
Don't get hyped, probably second in the series of mobile games.

SageSavage
28th Mar 2014, 17:50
Probably a perfume line for boys and girls.

Shralla
28th Mar 2014, 19:32
That would be a pretty ****ty name for a game.

Like... that name is terrible.

Ashpolt
28th Mar 2014, 20:56
Not a fan of the name, but then again, I wasn't a fan of the name Human Revolution at first either, so this might grow on me.

....Assuming it is anything, of course. And I'm in two minds as to whether I hope it is.

On the plus side: if this is something, it suggests we might be hearing something about the next game soon!

Downside: "Mankind Divided" kinda sounds like the focus is going to be firmly on the augmentation debate again, doesn't it? They covered that pretty thoroughly (read: too thoroughly) in Human Revolution, so I'd really like that to be a minor theme at most in the new one.

jcd3nt0n
28th Mar 2014, 22:39
http://www.shacknews.com/article/83773/deus-ex-mankind-divided-trademarked

"It's been a few months since we've heard of a Deus Ex name being reserved and ultimately not turning out to be a big-budget game, so we're about due. Square Enix has now registered a trademark for "Deus Ex: Mankind Divided," which according to the registration office covers video game software, printed material like books, and online services."

:group_hug::friends:

SageSavage
28th Mar 2014, 23:04
Good thing you didn't say "Jump" or "Lean left". Cheap shots, I know, I know...

FrankCSIS
28th Mar 2014, 23:17
ITT: We walk away from Robocop and creep into X Men territory.

At this rate, I think I'm going to trademark Deus Ex: People's Peril, and sell it to square for the third episode

WildcatPhoenix
28th Mar 2014, 23:39
It's an uninspiring title, to say the least, but I'm not gonna get too upset about it until we know more.

I do hope the next fullscale Deus Ex release doesn't take the same monothematic approach as Human Revolution did (transhumanism! transhumanism! transhumanism! hey look, this game is about transhumanism!).

CyberP
28th Mar 2014, 23:54
It's an uninspiring title, to say the least, but I'm not gonna get too upset about it until we know more.

+1

No hype or pessimism in here!

Jito463
29th Mar 2014, 00:04
Kind of reminds me of my first thoughts, when I heard the title for Star Wars: Episode II. I mean, 'Attack of the Clones'? Really? 'The Clone Wars' would have been a better title.

I'll reserve judgment for now, though.

FrankCSIS
29th Mar 2014, 00:07
After the merge, petition for Spy to edit Jito's post to "Look up".

IDAFT
29th Mar 2014, 00:20
Not, not gonna buy the game because of the name, its not brilliant though. How about, Deus Ex: Human Segregation.

68_pie
29th Mar 2014, 00:53
This is genuinely worse than Human Revolution.

WildcatPhoenix
29th Mar 2014, 01:07
I care less about the title than what the name itself implies. (beware: unsubstantiated speculation to follow...)

I think that most of us, whether or not you found the story of Human Revolution compelling, can agree that DXHR took a monotonous and single-minded approach to the subjects of transhumanism and "augs vs. no-augs." A title such as "mankind divided" appears to be continuing down this narrative path of "purity front vs. augmented" which was already beaten to death by every single character (even the lowliest NPC) in DXHR.

The segregation storyline is certainly relevant to any depiction of a transhumanist transition period in human society. But it's really...unsubtle. Yes, highly segregated societies do still exist in many countries on Earth, but it's hard to make a compelling argument for them beyond religious tradition or just plain outright racism/sexism/etc. I'm sorry, but I couldn't sympathize with anyone from the Humanity Front in DXHR. They all just come across as bigots, zealots, or worse.

Compare that to a faction such as the NSF in DX1. Are they terrorists? Sure, some of them certainly are. Are they criminals? Absolutely. Do they deserve to die for committing crimes against a corrupt, oppressive, even genocidal government? Well...that's for you, the player, to decide.

These kinds of debates are more compelling than any plain old good-vs-evil, tolerance-vs-intolerance approach to the story. And for the love of all that is holy, pleeeeeeeease don't forget to talk about something else besides augmentation! The average bum/hooker/junkie on the street isn't going to be jabbering on and on about the perils of augmentation. Make the world believable and complex and multifaceted. Make me believe I'm really stepping on to the street in 2027 (or whenever the next game is set).

Don't just give us more of the same.

CyberP
29th Mar 2014, 01:57
Deus Ex is too. damn. good. I am STILL discovering in-game content despite a ridiculous amount of playthroughs and working on it for nearly two years!

Starting to "kill" it for myself though, having worked on it, tested it and played it in general so many times. Sometimes I wish somebody else made my mod for me, but this has been very rewarding regardless.

@Wildcat: Agreed. More devs should play Deus Ex for inspiration. The writing is exceptional, especially late in the game. Starts off a little slow but just gets better and better. Same for the gameplay, apart from that it gets way too easy.

WildcatPhoenix
29th Mar 2014, 02:19
@Wildcat: Agreed. More devs should play Deus Ex for inspiration. The writing is exceptional, especially late in the game. Starts off a little slow but just gets better and better. Same for the gameplay, apart from that it gets way too easy.

I agree that most of the truly remarkable conversations/quotes occur in the latter half of the game (convos with Chad/Nicolette/Everett in Paris, the stalking and final confrontation with Gunther, Icarus' messages over the phone and infolink, the battles with Walton Simons, Page's taunting over the infolink in Area 51, and of course- the legendary Morpheus convo).

However, it's the early world-building missions which made me fall in love with the universe and lore of Deus Ex, back when JC still thinks he's just a highly advanced policeman trying to hold civil society together. All the newspapers, the info terminals, little bits of dialogue from characters and NPCs like the old retired NSF guy ("One last look in the devil's red eyes...") or the cryptic bum in the Free Clinic ("who will help the widow's son?") or the little kid in the mole people tunnel ("you're the spy, huh? the metal guys knew you were coming").

Those kinds of interactions and unique, near-apocalyptic setting are what I missed more than anything from DXHR. I barely remember a single one of the NPCs other than the lady digging through the trash in Detroit, which was more due to the mildly racist depiction of the character than anything else.

CyberP
29th Mar 2014, 03:36
I agree, all the writing throughout the whole game is very good. Just emphasis on the last 1/3 of the game was needed, I think.

People knock Deus Ex's voice acting also but > two thirds of it is very good.

The game is truly legendary. I hope my mod has done it justice. Let me know what you think when you play it.

68_pie
29th Mar 2014, 07:50
I hope my mod has done it justice. Let me know what you think when you play it.

I want to do more for it, there is still so much more that can be done, but I've done enough and now I have to channel that effort into resolving my financial difficulties, no more modding. However, I hope once I have financial security I can return to it one day.

And you have a whole other thread in which to discuss it...

CyberP
29th Mar 2014, 08:09
And you have a whole other thread in which to discuss it...

I go off topic when it suits me...and that's quite often. Deal with it. Once you begin to contribute anything other than pessimistic toxicity no matter the topic, then you can take the high ground.

68_pie
29th Mar 2014, 10:31
I go off topic when it suits me...and that's quite often.

You say "off topic", I say "self-serving":

zZ3fjQa5Hls


Once you begin to contribute anything other than pessimistic toxicity no matter the topic, then you can take the high ground.

Huh, when did I become more negative than you :scratch: Hmm. Well we could go talk about baseball in The Hive if you want? I'm pretty excited about the new season.

Not sure why I would be anything other than pessimistic about the name "Deus Ex: Mankind Divided" and the potential game/film/book/website behind it. Best predictor of future behaviour... and all that.

xaduha2
29th Mar 2014, 12:02
Join Date: 01-09-2013
Total Posts: 1,615
Posts Per Day: 3.64

:whistle:

CyberP
29th Mar 2014, 12:31
You say "off topic", I say "self-serving":

Oh? And you make such golden posts that benefit the community? We are all here for ourselves primarily, not for some greater good.


Huh, when did I become more negative than you :scratch:

:scratch:

I am an equally-divided human in this respect.


Not sure why I would be anything other than pessimistic about the name "Deus Ex: Mankind Divided" and the potential game/film/book/website behind it. Best predictor of future behaviour... and all that.

When you post you always appear to be posting some "rot", usually an attack of sorts.


Join Date: 01-09-2013
Total Posts: 1,615
Posts Per Day: 3.64

:whistle:

The hell has that to do with anything? What's that, 10-15 minutes per day on average? Time others would be spending on facebook, or gaming perhaps? Are my contributions not valued here? I guess not. Today has been an odd one. Farewell then, and lesson learnt.

Spyhopping
29th Mar 2014, 13:07
Hey!! Let's get on.



Downside: "Mankind Divided" kinda sounds like the focus is going to be firmly on the augmentation debate again, doesn't it? They covered that pretty thoroughly (read: too thoroughly) in Human Revolution, so I'd really like that to be a minor theme at most in the new one.

I really hope they shift the themes a bit too, and make the people on the street talk about normal things, not just whatever central theme is on the table this time.

Jito463
29th Mar 2014, 13:21
After the merge, petition for Spy to edit Jito's post to "Look up".

Since the topics were merged, I just went ahead and deleted my post. No point in it anymore. :)

Spyhopping
29th Mar 2014, 13:31
Since the topics were merged, I just went ahead and deleted my post. No point in it anymore. :)

Ah! Sorry about that. I try to avoid merging threads if I can because it sometimes makes a bit of a mess like that.

-Neon-
29th Mar 2014, 15:50
I -really- hope this isn't going to be the title for the next main game. "Human Revolution" was kind of attention grabbing, but "Mankind Divided" sounds like some kind of B-list spinoff movie by a 3rd company. It might as well be called "Deus Ex: Bioelectric Boogaloo."
In any case, I sincerely hope Eidos is learning from their mistakes with Human Revolution, and working on bringing the next main game more towards a true Deus Ex experience. Only then will I excuse any side games Square Enix is making/letting them put out.

Darthassin
29th Mar 2014, 16:56
I don't care about the game title. Statisticly speeking ... next Deus Ex will be brilliant.

Karpaw
29th Mar 2014, 18:15
These kinds of debates are more compelling than any plain old good-vs-evil, tolerance-vs-intolerance approach to the story. And for the love of all that is holy, pleeeeeeeease don't forget to talk about something else besides augmentation! The average bum/hooker/junkie on the street isn't going to be jabbering on and on about the perils of augmentation. Make the world believable and complex and multifaceted. Make me believe I'm really stepping on to the street in 2027 (or whenever the next game is set).


I think the narrow focus on augmentations in HR was partly justified by it taking place mostly in Detroit and Hengsha, which are supposed to be world centers of biotech. But yes, there's no subtlety in every chump on the street debating or commenting the issue and news report focusing on it. More showing, less telling next time.

Smoke43
29th Mar 2014, 18:58
Deus Ex Mankind Divided sounds ****. I hope its not the next Deus Ex game after Human Revolution. I am still want another Adam Jensen voice actor like i said in a post that i posted. Elias sounds like or is some oaf

Shaikh
29th Mar 2014, 19:01
I don't have any problem with the repeat of Augmented theme since it was amazingly executed in Human Revolution. HR was one of the best game in last generation. A similar game with perhaps continuing Adam's storyline would be another hit too, and of course with similar gameplay (fixed boss fights from the first this time too :p ).

And I will like to see Mankind Divided as the DX4 title. :)

WildcatPhoenix
29th Mar 2014, 20:40
I don't have any problem with the repeat of Augmented theme since it was amazingly executed in Human Revolution.


While I disagree that it was "amazingly executed," I don't mean to suggest that the theme should be abandoned altogether, either. Obviously this issue would/will one day spark a lot of discussion (can you imagine the arguments that will surround augmented competitors being allowed in professional sports, or to participate in the Olympic games?).

But I think the writers at EM have over-emphasized the amount of resistance that would result from viable augmentation technology. I mean, do you really think people are going to tell a double amputee war veteran, "sorry, buddy, you can't have your legs/arms back because, you know, purity of the human race and such"? Or tell a man who's been blind his entire life, "well, we have the technology to let you see, but you shouldn't use it because it is defiling the human body bla bla bla"?

I don't think so. Maybe a small handful of zealots, but not enough to warrant this completely segregated, "no augs allowed" society that EM seems to be driving the Deus Ex universe toward. I just don't see it.

IHaveReturned
29th Mar 2014, 22:06
They might if said war veterans suddenly began pushing them out of the job market, to the point where they started considering self-mutilation so they could compete. Concern for the plight of others tends to depend on a stable base for oneself first.

-Neon-
30th Mar 2014, 03:53
While I disagree that it was "amazingly executed," I don't mean to suggest that the theme should be abandoned altogether, either. Obviously this issue would/will one day spark a lot of discussion (can you imagine the arguments that will surround augmented competitors being allowed in professional sports, or to participate in the Olympic games?).

But I think the writers at EM have over-emphasized the amount of resistance that would result from viable augmentation technology. I mean, do you really think people are going to tell a double amputee war veteran, "sorry, buddy, you can't have your legs/arms back because, you know, purity of the human race and such"? Or tell a man who's been blind his entire life, "well, we have the technology to let you see, but you shouldn't use it because it is defiling the human body bla bla bla"?

I don't think so. Maybe a small handful of zealots, but not enough to warrant this completely segregated, "no augs allowed" society that EM seems to be driving the Deus Ex universe toward. I just don't see it.


They might if said war veterans suddenly began pushing them out of the job market, to the point where they started considering self-mutilation so they could compete. Concern for the plight of others tends to depend on a stable base for oneself first.

This is literally what happens/is discussed in Human Revolution. It was originally exclusive to veterans and other amputees, and then was made legal for the public. People were having their functioning limbs removed to keep up with or outperform re-enabled veterans/previously injured workers, and natches were afraid this would cause a humongous economic/social shift. Combine that with the military type augs and evidence of how they can be mishandled, it's easy to understand why there's such a large anti-aug movement, because that's how fear-mongering and paranoia work.

I would like to see how Eidos starts to move the Deus Ex universe away from mechanical augs into nano-augs, since in the original game, I believe it was stated it wasn't long before the mech. aug industry started to decline.

WildcatPhoenix
30th Mar 2014, 05:08
I would like to see how Eidos starts to move the Deus Ex universe away from mechanical augs into nano-augs, since in the original game, I believe it was stated it wasn't long before the mech. aug industry started to decline.

That seems a bit soon, don't you think? Paul and JC are still supposed to be cutting edge as of 2052. The mechanical augmentation industry in Human Revolution (2027) still appears to be relatively new, which is why it's still generating so much controversy.

I wouldn't expect mechanical augmentation to start going out of fashion until the 2040s at the earliest.

As for the "augs/no augs" debate, wouldn't you say it's more or less the same crowd which would get bent out of shape over stem cell research? Yes, there are certainly people who would feel threatened by augmentation, and there would be plenty of protests, debates in Congress, etc. There would probably even be a couple of nutjobs who bombed or burned an augmentation clinic or two.

But do you really think we'd see a nationwide segregation between augmented and non-augmented? I'm sorry, I just don't think segregation of any sort would be politically viable, especially not in this "golden age" time period where the U.S. is still relatively prosperous and strong. Now, in the 2030s when everything in the Deus Ex timeline starts to go to s**t? Perhaps.

Bottom line: I'm quite bored with the augmentation debate already. I want to see what's going on with the bigger conspiracy. Show me more about the Illuminati and MJ12, not just another treatise on the perils of transhumanism.

-Neon-
30th Mar 2014, 06:08
You can't really compare stem cells to mechnical augmentations, because the former repairs while the latter improves. Mechanical augmentation has more of a direct effect on the lives on others, so I'm willing to bet there'd be more outrage at it IRL than what we see with stem cell research.

But I do agree, I wanna see more Illuminati/MJ12 stuff. I especially wanna see if they really did dissect Beth DuClare, or if Icarus was just messing with us.

Lucifer
30th Mar 2014, 09:24
Manking Divided the title sounds great but we need more info about it, there are many questions that need to be answered.

FrankCSIS
30th Mar 2014, 14:37
I can't imagine a nationwide segregation over augmentations, nor would it ever be the only subject of discussion in everybody's mouth. I think what we would eventually see are people being repelled by certain kinds of augmentations, those we don't primarily imagine when we think of limb replacements. Everything regarding arms and legs is already firmly implanted in the collective mind, no matter how you obtained it. Tentacles coming out of your back though, they will be stigmatised like nobody's business.

Batman Beyond pretty much nailed a similar issue with Splicing. The series had many themes, and Splicing fit right into their world. A much better balanced vision of the issue was offered, too. Despite being heavily targeted at teenagers, this show possessed some great gems and pure moments of stellar writing. Oddly, that show managed to be a lot more Cyberpunk than many other movies/books/games, without really trying all that much. It understood, I think, teenagers and young adults would be the main protagonists of such a cultural movement.

Shralla
30th Mar 2014, 18:42
Batman Beyond pretty much nailed a similar issue with Splicing. The series had many themes, and Splicing fit right into their world. A much better balanced vision of the issue was offered, too. Despite being heavily targeted at teenagers, this show possessed some great gems and pure moments of stellar writing. Oddly, that show managed to be a lot more Cyberpunk than many other movies/books/games, without really trying all that much. It understood, I think, teenagers and young adults would be the main protagonists of such a cultural movement.

Yes. Batman Beyond is a fantastic bit of animation, in my opinion superior to Batman: The Animated Series in most regards. The show came out later and as a result the whole team who worked on B:TAS had time to improve before they started making Batman Beyond. The writing, editing, acting, and animation is all much more believable and doesn't jump around as much. The stories and dialog are both more organic and natural feeling. Terry McGinnis very much feels like a frustrated student trying to juggle his studies and his night life as a superhero, and his interactions with his mom, brother, girlfriend, and friends at school are spot on. I guess in a lot of ways it's kind of like if Peter Parker were Batman, but less insignificant than that sounds.

It truly nailed the idea of "Batman for a new generation" and while I wait forever for them to make a Batman Beyond game in the same vein as Arkham City, I think a lot of things could do with taking influence from it. The imagery and individual storylines were just brilliantly done. If I had the money I would be keeping up with the comics, but alas.

EliParker
30th Mar 2014, 18:48
This may not add anything to the discussion about the new Deus Ex game. I rather see Deus Ex U separate from the original Deus Ex games (in short, two timelines DEU and Classic DE) as it allows EM great freedom to develop their vision of the Deus Ex world.

Shralla
30th Mar 2014, 18:58
Yeah, how about they just make a new cyberpunk game series then?

EliParker
30th Mar 2014, 19:05
Yeah, how about they just make a new cyberpunk game series then?

They could have, but I'm one of those people that sees reboots as a good thing (when done well). If EM is force to move the story of HR into the original DE games then they are limited. By doing this, it doesn't take away from the original DE games as it allows the original games to have their own story and their own conclusion.

WildcatPhoenix
30th Mar 2014, 20:10
They could have, but I'm one of those people that sees reboots as a good thing (when done well). If EM is force to move the story of HR into the original DE games then they are limited. By doing this, it doesn't take away from the original DE games as it allows the original games to have their own story and their own conclusion.

While I (vehemently) disagree with your suggestion of an alternate timeline, I do think you point out one of the major problems of choosing to make DXHR be a prequel to DX1. Granted, this is all water under the bridge at this point, but it's hard for EM to tell us anything new about the major plot points of DX1 (Illuminati, MJ12, UNATCO, etc) because we pretty much already know the big secrets and are aware of how everything is going to end.

But that ship has already sailed. DXHR is what it is, and as far as DX4 goes, I doubt EM is planning to skip ahead several decades in the timeline at this point.

Golden Method
30th Mar 2014, 20:15
As if the title "Deus Ex" was innovative, inspiring, fresh, unique, draw dropping, next level, cutting edge, etc.

This is most likely the title of the next game. When they showed the image of the next title the guy being interviewed spoke of humans being divided and segregated, so I would say that fits right in.

WildcatPhoenix
30th Mar 2014, 20:34
This is most likely the title of the next game. When they showed the image of the next title the guy being interviewed spoke of humans being divided and segregated, so I would say that fits right in.

Nobody's saying it doesn't fit the theme. They're saying it's painfully obvious and not particularly creative (kinda like naming a game "Deus Ex: Conflict" or "Deus Ex: Shooting Things" or "Deus Ex: Bad Stuff Happens").

Some of us also have a problem with repeating the same theme which was thoroughly beaten to death in Human Revolution, which of course is pure speculation, but the title does seem to imply it.

IHaveReturned
30th Mar 2014, 23:36
I can't believe I'm seeing people hoping EM will give the Deus Ex franchise the NuThief treatment.

CyberP
30th Mar 2014, 23:39
I can't believe I'm seeing people hoping EM will give the Deus Ex franchise the NuThief treatment.

SSDD.

Also, we already have The Fall and Invisible War treatment. I would say Human Revolution too but they tried, it's a good game and is not in that category.

Shame NuThief wasn't even as good as Human Revolution. (Thief was never as good as DX anyway, in my opinion :p).
There is little care for the legendary classics these days, they are just the vector from customers wallets to corporation. The majority of the audience doesn't really give a **** either...never mind. I give up ranting about it or contributing to the DX name but having nobody listen.

FrankCSIS
31st Mar 2014, 03:26
Parker may be on to something here, in the sense that this game's biggest limitation may be the Deus Ex title, as odd as this sounds, considering Deus Ex is anything but a synonym of limitations. Their biggest problem, initially, was creating the world they liked, that would be literally grounded in our current reality in terms of technology and current events, and tie it to the DX world somehow.

Those two realities clashed, and at the end of the day their world is anything but believable. It's too close to home as far as "could be in ten years", and yet socially unrealistic, for the sake of eventually catching up with the DX timeline (which, when you think about it, was NEVER about the technology itself). There's no way, for instance, mechanical augmentations would become so prominent they'd be a worldwide moral issue by 2027 when you still have half the planet seeing tattoos as somewhat wrong. There's a fundamental difference between people being excited by technology, and making the leap we're talking here. And I think that's why the whole approach to transhumanism as a central theme rings false, and why it's exasperating to think the next game may revisit the same issues.

Not to mention that when you really think about it, transhumanism was such a minor issue in DX, in the grand social themes addressed by the game. Don't have the will or desire to write an essay on Cyberpunk, but it's the human aspect that was always grounded into reality, while the technology was never more than a bit of an allegory. HR addressed the theme the other way around, probably because it's tied to our technology-obsessed early 21st century. The story begins and ends with the tech, with humanity reacting to it. Difference may be subtle, and I know I'm wording it wrong, but HR is very backwards about its approach to Cyberpunk. I think they're genuinely excited about the cool tech they created, giving it center stage, and the end result is somewhat shallow.

WildcatPhoenix
31st Mar 2014, 04:44
Not to mention that when you really think about it, transhumanism was such a minor issue in DX, in the grand social themes addressed by the game. Don't have the will or desire to write an essay on Cyberpunk, but it's the human aspect that was always grounded into reality, while the technology was never more than a bit of an allegory. HR addressed the theme the other way around, probably because it's tied to our technology-obsessed early 21st century. The story begins and ends with the tech, with humanity reacting to it. Difference may be subtle, and I know I'm wording it wrong, but HR is very backwards about its approach to Cyberpunk. I think they're genuinely excited about the cool tech they created, giving it center stage, and the end result is somewhat shallow.

Very well said. The transhumanism aspect of DX1 was never more than subtext (do you recall JC or Paul Denton ever looking at their augmentations and saying, "I never asked for this"?) I suppose Tong makes a case for absolute purism at the very, very end of the game, and JC (sort of) debates Morpheus and Helios about the nature of intelligence/sentience, but this is really a different debate from transhumanism altogether.

I'm okay with EM tackling different themes from the original game, but let's not act like Deus Ex was ever about one single issue. To me, the world of the DX universe and the interesting cyberpunk characters which filled it were by far the most compelling parts of the first game, and probably the least compelling in DXHR (I know not everyone feels this way, but there it is).

hellrasinbrasin
31st Mar 2014, 05:00
...With Deus EX Human Revolution we saw humanity at the height of its decadence. Rome before The Fall. I guess Deus EX 4 is about the final days before the collapse a collapse whose aftermath we saw in Deus EX.

IHaveReturned
31st Mar 2014, 18:03
Those two realities clashed, and at the end of the day their world is anything but believable. It's too close to home as far as "could be in ten years", and yet socially unrealistic, for the sake of eventually catching up with the DX timeline (which, when you think about it, was NEVER about the technology itself). There's no way, for instance, mechanical augmentations would become so prominent they'd be a worldwide moral issue by 2027 when you still have half the planet seeing tattoos as somewhat wrong. There's a fundamental difference between people being excited by technology, and making the leap we're talking here. And I think that's why the whole approach to transhumanism as a central theme rings false, and why it's exasperating to think the next game may revisit the same issues.
I may be out of my depth here, only having played DX 1 and 2 once each, but I don't see how this could possibly be EM's fault. Those games clearly imply hi-tech and augs spread world-wide with years given. All EM could do with that is try to lead into it from our world, which means rapid spread and common use, no matter how unrealistic. And if tech rapidly spreads far and wide all over, and that tech becomes the new gold standard for human endeavour, which is either implied or reasonably inferred due to its usefulness, how can it not follow that class conflict would ensue between the "have" minority and "have not" majority?

I'm completely with you on the idiocy of this being the only thing anyone talks about, but as far as the issue existing as a worldwide thing in the first place, I don't much see how EM could have credibly made it otherwise and stayed true to the lore.

Golden Method
31st Mar 2014, 18:22
Nobody's saying it doesn't fit the theme. They're saying it's painfully obvious and not particularly creative (kinda like naming a game "Deus Ex: Conflict" or "Deus Ex: Shooting Things" or "Deus Ex: Bad Stuff Happens").

I never said anyone said it didn't fit the theme so I'm not sure where you are going with this. I'm saying "Deus Ex" is not particularly creative and will never win an award for best named game. In fact, if you were to study the name, what it is derived from and how it is used in writing (from tragedies to modern stories), you will see why it is actually flawed and also come to understand why the series as a whole can be considered a flaw from a literary standpoint.


Some of us also have a problem with repeating the same theme which was thoroughly beaten to death in Human Revolution, which of course is pure speculation, but the title does seem to imply it.

And I'm simply providing my take on the question posed in the thread title.

Shralla
31st Mar 2014, 18:35
As if the title "Deus Ex" was innovative, inspiring, fresh, unique, draw dropping, next level, cutting edge, etc.

Well, given that it seems like most people still don't even know what the term means or where it originates, I would say it was a pretty solid title. Still gets people asking questions and looking into it.

CyberP
31st Mar 2014, 18:37
The title Deus Ex is excellent, and has dual/triple meaning in the context of the original game.

Also note that this thread title has incorrect spelling of the phrase: "Deux Ex"...that happens often and makes me lol.

Yelorova
31st Mar 2014, 18:41
Meh can't say I love the title but HR is a uncreative title and I loved the game so nothing changes for me.

CyberP
31st Mar 2014, 18:47
Meh can't say I love the title but HR is a uncreative title and I loved the game so nothing changes for me.

lol, y rely tho the gold filta is soooo expressive and artistic.

:lmao:

Edit: Gold theme. There is no slap-on filter, is primarily lighting, but plenty else gold as well such as the HUD borders and interaction highlighting.

Jerion
31st Mar 2014, 19:52
Parker may be on to something here, in the sense that this game's biggest limitation may be the Deus Ex title, as odd as this sounds, considering Deus Ex is anything but a synonym of limitations. Their biggest problem, initially, was creating the world they liked, that would be literally grounded in our current reality in terms of technology and current events, and tie it to the DX world somehow.

Those two realities clashed, and at the end of the day their world is anything but believable. It's too close to home as far as "could be in ten years", and yet socially unrealistic, for the sake of eventually catching up with the DX timeline (which, when you think about it, was NEVER about the technology itself). There's no way, for instance, mechanical augmentations would become so prominent they'd be a worldwide moral issue by 2027 when you still have half the planet seeing tattoos as somewhat wrong. There's a fundamental difference between people being excited by technology, and making the leap we're talking here. And I think that's why the whole approach to transhumanism as a central theme rings false, and why it's exasperating to think the next game may revisit the same issues.

Not to mention that when you really think about it, transhumanism was such a minor issue in DX, in the grand social themes addressed by the game. Don't have the will or desire to write an essay on Cyberpunk, but it's the human aspect that was always grounded into reality, while the technology was never more than a bit of an allegory. HR addressed the theme the other way around, probably because it's tied to our technology-obsessed early 21st century. The story begins and ends with the tech, with humanity reacting to it. Difference may be subtle, and I know I'm wording it wrong, but HR is very backwards about its approach to Cyberpunk. I think they're genuinely excited about the cool tech they created, giving it center stage, and the end result is somewhat shallow.

The thing about technology in the original game is that the advanced tech wasn't portrayed as being exceptional because it was simply considered part of the everyday experience in most of the developed world, just like the smartphone is now, the internet before it, and television before that. Every time a notable social advancement appears at the mass market level, it is initially treated with abnormal emphasis and skepticism before fading into the background. Just look at the 24-hour news networks' current obsession with social media (http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/cabdj6/morning-news-for-millennials). If you look at the timeline between the two titles the pattern doesn't quite match up, but the theory is essentially the same: Before something as socially transformative as wide-spread augmentation would be accepted, it would first be exceptional. The timing they chose doesn't quite work if you try to reconcile real-world 2007 with DX-Verse 2027, but if you look at the games as consistent within their own universe, it fits somewhat more readily.

The transhumanism-based class division theme does get tiresome though, much like the damsel in distress theme. I'm ready to see it start taking more of a background role. I would also say there's another dimension to these games; I haven't completed IW, but the original game and HR both asked the player a central question. For Deus Ex: "What degree of societal control is acceptable?". For Human Revolution: "When does pursuing transhumanism mean leaving humanity behind?"

It will be interesting to see what question is asked with the next title.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
31st Mar 2014, 20:18
So long as the Omar have their day; I don't care what the game is called. :D

Golden Method
31st Mar 2014, 20:53
The title Deus Ex is excellent, and has dual/triple meaning in the context of the original game.

It is your opinion that it is excellent, just like it is my opinion that it isn't earth shattering or remotely creative. It may or may not have a dual/triple meaning in the context of the original game but, when looking at what the title is derived from, and how it is used in writing, questions start to pop up.


Well, given that it seems like most people still don't even know what the term means or where it originates, I would say it was a pretty solid title. Still gets people asking questions and looking into it.

Asking questions and looking into something ≠ originality, ground breaking, innovative or any other word used to describe something in a positive manner. The fact that most people still don't know what the term means or originates actually supports what I am saying.

"Deus Ex." Ok, so you have a title here that people are going to misspell and mispronounce. How innovative.

CyberP
31st Mar 2014, 21:12
It may or may not have a dual/triple meaning in the context of the original game but, when looking at what the title is derived from, and how it is used in writing, questions start to pop up.

That is the whole point, and shows you lack context.

The game is called Deus Ex because you can choose to become/Helios decides to become the Deus Ex machina ("God from the machine"; to rule the world with what it deems to be objectivity and supreme knowledge, and further understanding of humans through merging with JC, and also it's use of it's algorithms, not held back by the irrationality and subjectivity of human judgement. It is to replace what a large percentage of humans currently refer to as God or the Gods, it becomes a" God from the machine", a God of ultimate judgement (if it's algorithms are as accurate as one would hope).

That is the primary meaning behind the title 'Deus Ex'.

Yes, a Deus ex machina is also referred to as a crappy plot device, which the developers/writers of Deus Ex were fully aware of and wanted to ridicule the industry for for relying on said device so much. In fact they wanted to show the industry in general the potential of game design; "I wanted to shame my peers", which may seem arrogant but they damn well succeeded. I am confident in my design concepts and execution also (which are largely inspired by those devs), which is why it is a shame too few are playing my mod.

Though Deus Ex as a title is bound to lead to confusion, "God from the machine" is the direct translation, not "crappy plot device", so you obviously done a quick google search and jumped to conclusions.

Deus Ex isn't a game that can be summed up by any review, youtube video, or wiki page. It can only be experienced. If you can get on teh boat (inside joke).
Though you have to be patient with the game at first because it's crap. At least that is what I (and many others) originally thought when I first played it as a teen. Mods help fix some of those shallow reasons though, those that actually need "fixing".

Edit: The shaming quote was Warren Spector. I cannot speak for the views of the whole team, but I doubt they disagreed. Also it's not clear if "peers" is referring to the whole industry or a large portion of it.
At the time I personally believe some teams were exempt from shaming, but many needed and still do need a boot up the backside, now more than ever actually.

Don't take any of what I have said as fact, naturally, because I am just a guy on the internet.

Golden Method
31st Mar 2014, 21:42
That is the whole point, and shows you lack context.

The game is called Deus Ex because you can choose to become/Helios decides to become the Deus Ex machina ("God from the machine"; to rule the world with what it deems to be objectivity and supreme knowledge, and further understanding of humans through merging with JC, and also it's use of it's algorithms, not held back by the irrationality and subjectivity of human judgement, or lack thereof. It is to replace what a large percentage of humans currently refer to as God or the Gods, it becomes a" God from the machine", a God of ultimate judgement (if it's algorithms are as accurate as one would hope).

That is the primary meaning behind the title 'Deus Ex'.

Yes, a Deus ex machina is also referred to as a crappy plot device, which the developers/writers of Deus Ex were fully aware of and wanted to ridicule the industry for for relying on said device so much. In fact they wanted to show the industry in general the potential of game design; "I wanted to shame my peers", which may seem arrogant but they damn well succeeded. I am confident in my design concepts and execution also (which are largely inspired by those devs), which is why it is a shame too few are playing my mod.

Though Deus Ex as a title is bound to lead to confusion, "God from the machine" is the direct translation, not "crappy plot device", so you obviously done a quick google search and jumped to conclusions.

Deus Ex isn't a game that can be summed up by any review, youtube video, or wiki page. It can only be experienced. If you can get on teh boat (inside joke).
Though you have to be patient with the game at first because it's crap. At least that is what I (and many others) originally thought when I first played it as a teen. Mods help fix those shallow reasons though.

It's your interpretation that it shows a lack of context. As far as what the developers and writers were fully aware of, I was not with them when they made the game and neither were you and there is no instance, that I know of, of them choosing that title because they wanted to shame their peers. I can understand level and game design, they have gone on record with that but the title? That is your opinion. Also, stop peddling your goods. I don't need to read post after post of you mentioning your mod. You have a mod, great, the world is happy for you.

Concerning the origins of the title, no Google search or jumping to conclusions was needed. In fact, if you gave more thought to reading comprehension instead of some mod you have to update every full moon, you would see that I said, "In fact, if you were to study the name, what it is derived from and how it is used in writing (from tragedies to modern stories), you will see why it is actually flawed and also come to understand why the series as a whole can be considered a flaw from a literary standpoint." You get it now?

CyberP
31st Mar 2014, 21:50
of them choosing that title because they wanted to shame their peers

I said no such thing. The whole product was intended to shame their peers, according to an interview I read on the internet somewhere, so again may not be true.


Also, stop peddling your goods. I don't need to read post after post of you mentioning your mod. You have a mod, great, the world is happy for you.

again, we are all here for a reason or reasons, reasons which are primarily for ourselves. You are here to gather/direct a crowd to file a lawsuit against EM because you got mugged off. I am here to promote my FREE mod, featuring design that attempts to advance DX whilst staying true to it. I am at least looking to know whether I succeeded or not. Which I will find out in due time, I'm just impatient, but people need it drilled into their heads; mods are awesome, and the majority of this forum seems adverse to mods. More would rather buy The Fall or the Directors Cut, both of which are widely accepted to be no good, at least considering they have DX slapped on the box. But you think they are no good at all, at least the DC, and want to sue. As far as i am concerned you mugged yourself off. Always do you research unless you absolutely have no choice...but that still doesn't forgive a broken product and misleading advertising, I know. You wont go through with it anyway, you're just bluffing.

Golden Method
31st Mar 2014, 21:58
I said no such thing.

At the very least when you said, "Yes, a Deus ex machina is also referred to as a crappy plot device, which the developers/writers of Deus Ex were fully aware of and wanted to ridicule the industry for for relying on said device so much." you implied.


again, we are all here for a reason or reasons, reasons which are primarily for ourselves. You are here to gather a crowd to file a lawsuit against EM because you got mugged off. I am here to promote my FREE mod, featuring design that attempts to advance DX whilst staying true to it. I am at least looking to know whether I succeeded or not.

No, I am not here to gather a crowd for anything. I have said nothing about a lawsuit against EM in anythread aside from the threads that pertain to an announced patch and technical issues. You, on the other hand, use every thread and response you can to promote your mod. In fact, in a recent post another member called you out on it, Ashpolt I believe his name is. But in any case that is neither here nor there. We are talking about the title of this fourth game and I would prefer that we stick to it. You edited your post for additional content but it is not something that I intend to go into as it will detract from the current topic. However, I will say that I never said mods weren't good.

CyberP
31st Mar 2014, 22:03
No, I am not here to gather a crowd for anything. I have said nothing about a lawsuit against EM in anythread aside from the threads that pertain to an announced patch and technical issues. You, on the other hand, use every thread and response you can to promote your mod. In fact, in a recent post another member called you out on it, Ashpolt I believe his name is. But in any case that is neither here nor there. We are talking about the title of this fourth game and I would prefer that we stick to it. You edited your post for additional content but it is not something that I intend to go into as it will detract from the current topic. However, I will say that I never said mods weren't good.

Firstly it's difficult to NOT mention my mod when I do amateur work on the series that the majority of us are here for and love. people would rather ***** about The Fall. Secondly, if you gather the number of threads where I have gone off topic speaking of my mod in the past two years of working on it, it would be like...five maximum.

I'd rather just leave if I am going to get attacked for going off topic or mentioning my pet project every once in a while, which I have been considering doing (leaving). Stay out of internal affairs anyway, stick to your goal of suing EM, or whatever.

Spyhopping
31st Mar 2014, 22:22
Please stop bickering or posts will be deleted. CyberP is welcome to talk about his mod on the forum, and Golden Method is welcome to express his dissatisfaction about the Director's Cut. Both topics are relevant to the community, and this place is quiet enough at the moment as it is without people closing each other down.

CyberP
31st Mar 2014, 22:45
Concerning the origins of the title, no Google search or jumping to conclusions was needed. In fact, if you gave more thought to reading comprehension instead of some mod you have to update every full moon, you would see that I said, "In fact, if you were to study the name, what it is derived from and how it is used in writing (from tragedies to modern stories), you will see why it is actually flawed and also come to understand why the series as a whole can be considered a flaw from a literary standpoint." You get it now?

This is highly ironic. Note to mods: not bickering, just stating a fact.

You failed to comprehend my post, and I don't think that's incompetence on my part. There is no Deus Ex machina (the plot device) In the original Deus Ex, or Human Revolution for that matter. There is however a Deus Ex machina (God from the machine) in the original.

Also mods don't have to be updated at all. It's similar to professional game development in that regard, well actually no: a modder chooses to update, a developer obeys. Who is the bigger mug? The modder, because no pay :)

68_pie
1st Apr 2014, 03:23
I'm saying "Deus Ex" is not particularly creative and will never win an award for best named game.

Could you provide an example of what you consider to be a good/creative title so that we have a frame of reference.


In fact, in a recent post another member called you out on it, Ashpolt I believe his name is.

*cough*


Both topics are relevant to the community

but only one has three threads dedicated to it. Is being "on topic" not in the ToU? (I'm guessing. Does anyone actually read them?)

Spyhopping
1st Apr 2014, 09:38
Deus Ex is a good title, but it's awkward to say and it must be quite awkward to market. For the longest time I pronounced it "Juice Ex".



but only one has three threads dedicated to it. Is being "on topic" not in the ToU? (I'm guessing. Does anyone actually read them?)

Yeah, the much revered TOU does mention it but it is to prevent the whole thread being derailed. It's not so that mods can waste their time chopping individual sentences out of people's post that mention something other than the thread title. It's nice to have leeway to allow for some natural conversation.

CyberP
1st Apr 2014, 11:13
Ahh, stupid humans we all are...

Edit:



but only one has three threads dedicated to it. Is being "on topic" not in the ToU? (I'm guessing. Does anyone actually read them?)

So you call me out for not abiding to the much revered ToU, yet you admit to never having read the rules which is actually a requirement to even having a presence here. Doh.

Where is our Deus ex machina?


"Juice Ex"

"Deuce Ex" is more common I find.

About the marketability of the title: I don't think the devs particularly cared tbh. They wanted their intellectual title and nobody was going to stop them :) Deus Ex isn't for the masses at all. Of course the more people who buy the game the better, but they were clearly passion first. They weren't about to call it Super Terrorist Shooter to stick with market trends, or whatever. Again assumptions.

^saying that the original title was to be "troubleshooter", which is much more marketable but again Spector created the "game of his dreams" and the publisher allowed it, no interference (at least that's the impression I get). The game turned a profit, everybody wins.

Spyhopping
1st Apr 2014, 14:42
You don't need to stick to a trend to make it marketable, so long as a title is short, unique and memorable you're pretty sorted.

Deus Ex ticks all those boxes, but sadly it's a little bit awkward and nobody seems to know how to pronounce it the first time they read it. It's a bit like quiona, which is apparently pronounced "KEENWAH!". I can't get used to calling it that- I've tried, and I feel too much of a twit. If I was a dev, I'd have worried about that.

CyberP
1st Apr 2014, 14:45
You don't need to stick to a trend to make it marketable, so long and something is short, unique and memorable you're pretty sorted.

Oh true. I know little about the field and I suck when I try, which is fairly obvious...if you have seen my efforts with my mod.

:D

^ yeah the English language perhaps needs a patch. Bit difficult to roll one out effectively though.

Short, unique and memorable? With Deus Ex that's all boxes checked.

Edit: quiona is Spanish. Doh. Stoopid Human :) I learnt that from a machine. The English language still needs a patch though.

Spyhopping
1st Apr 2014, 14:49
Lols. It's raining mods.

You'll be hearing about the Revision mod rather a lot soon from me. I've been happily skipping around in the beta for a few hours over the last few days and it's rather wonderful.

Keeping on topic as ordered by King TOU: I haven't really expressed an opinion on "Mankind Divided" yet because I can't make up my mind about it. I think it'll be easier to form an opinion once we know what it's the title to- be it book, game, sticker album, shampoo brand or trading card game.


O
Edit: quiona is spanish. Doh. Stoopid Human :) English language still needs a patch though.

A while back now I spent 3 years living in Wales, and as I had no desire to learn the language I resisted any prods to incorporate the gutteral noises of the language into place names because it made me feel like an utter twot whenever I tried. Same goes for KEENWAH, for as long as I am talking about it with English speakers. :P

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Apr 2014, 15:00
A while back now I spent 3 years living in Wales, and as I had no desire to learn the language I resisted any prods to incorporate the gutteral noises of the language into place names because it made me feel like an utter twot whenever I tried. Same goes for KEENWAH, for as long as I am talking about it with English speakers. :P

Haha. My kids had to learn Welsh at school. They never wanted to. :hmm:
In fact, none of my friends kids wanted to either. It really is a total waste of time and resources for many who live here.
Obviously, I can't speak for everyone who lives in Wales, but I live in Pembrokeshire, aka "Little England Beyond Wales".... and the English language rules the waves here.

CyberP
1st Apr 2014, 15:02
Lols. It's raining mods.

You'll be hearing about the Revision mod rather a lot soon from me. I've been happily skipping around in the beta for a few hours over the last few days and it's rather wonderful.

Yep. I have been considering making GMDX compatible with it due to community pressure but as said before I am done with modding, temporarily at least.
OK, not community pressure, but of the handful that have actually played GMDX a few have been requesting it be compatible with Revision so they can have pretty maps and updated gameplay.


Keeping on topic as ordered by King TOU: I haven't really expressed an opinion on "Mankind Divided" yet because I can't make up my mind about it. I think it'll be easier to form an opinion once we know what it's the title to- be it book, game, sticker album, shampoo brand or trading card game.

Yes indeed, it's likely to be something in the "Deus Ex Universe" that we will not be happy with.


A while back now I spent 3 years living in Wales, and as I had no desire to learn the language I resisted any prods to incorporate the gutteral noises of the language into place names because it made me feel like an utter twot whenever I tried. Same goes for KEENWAH, for as long as I am talking about it with English speakers. :P

This is brilliant.

Spyhopping
1st Apr 2014, 15:15
I was wondering if it'd be compatible. It might not be too late to arrange that, the release date is still a little way off in May.


Haha. My kids had to learn Welsh at school. They never wanted to. :hmm:
In fact, none of my friends kids wanted to either. It really is a total waste of time and resources for many who live here.
Obviously, I can't speak for everyone who lives in Wales, but I live in Pembrokeshire, aka "Little England Beyond Wales".... and the English language rules the waves here.

Ah! I do love it down there, pretty part of the world. I experienced a lot of hostility in the North of Wales though, simply for being and speaking English. Probably explains my grumpiness toward the language :P



Yes indeed, it's likely to be something in the "Deus Ex Universe" that we will not be happy with.


Who knows. We'll be finding out more about the core stuff soon, so perhaps it's that. I wouldn't say no to another book though!

CyberP
1st Apr 2014, 15:21
Who knows. We'll be finding out more about the core stuff soon, so perhaps it's that. I wouldn't say no to another book though!

Well the odds aren't good. There is one core product in the works as far as we know, the rest are transmedia spin offs and five dollar merchandise.


I was wondering if it'd be compatible. It might not be too late to arrange that, the release date is still a little way off in May.

There's...complications. It would take at least a year as I would have to go over all 75+ maps editing tons of gameplay related stuff (for example, stuff related to the skill system to get it balanced), and the Revision guys might not even want me to mold their maps in my vision, because I WILL apply the occasional geometry edit to get the gameplay inline with what GMDX does if I have to. Plus I am no longer a modder anyway, except if GMDX needs another quick patch :)

Also, with Deus Ex's maps editing them was ideal, as I have played those maps so many damn times I knew exactly what I wanted to do, and what was appropriate. I haven't even played Revision through in it's entirety yet, I'd have to do that first, preferably multiple times as different playstyles.

68_pie
1st Apr 2014, 22:06
For the longest time I pronounced it "Juice Ex".

Your lack of a classical education is showing.

Stellazira
1st Apr 2014, 22:54
I quite enjoyed HR so I'd be interested in hearing more about this game. I'm not sure what to think of the name since we know nothing about it, so I guess we'll see.

FrankCSIS
2nd Apr 2014, 01:55
If you look at the timeline between the two titles the pattern doesn't quite match up, but the theory is essentially the same: Before something as socially transformative as wide-spread augmentation would be accepted, it would first be exceptional. The timing they chose doesn't quite work if you try to reconcile real-world 2007 with DX-Verse 2027, but if you look at the games as consistent within their own universe, it fits somewhat more readily.

I'm a page and a half late, but just for the sake of discussion... ;)

The logic within the universe works, and I may even accept the transhumanist question being all over the place. But that's just the thing, the game also heavily tries to tie things up with our timeline and universe, and somewhat bridge our present with DX, and that's where it hits a wall, for me anyway. They pretty much created their own limitations by taking this route, and that's possibly why the tech was the only issue they could really discuss without exploding canon all over the place.

The other problem is that DX, even though it has a set date, does not belong to any set period of the universe per say. In some regards, it's more low-tech than the world we were living in when it was released, it somehow managed to feel more like an alternate present than a future, and then it also felt like it may be somewhere in the distance. Making a prequel to this is a bit like trying to make a prequel to Blade Runner. Somehow, it's almost impossible. And taking a technologically-updated approach (like the Total Recall remake) while trying to respect the Blade Runner timeline would simply never work. They would have to create from scratch this crazy past which may realistically feel like it belonged somewhere before the events of BR, and completely disregard what it may look like in our timeline. In fact, they would pretty much have to create an alternate past of some sort, if any of this makes sense!

I'm with you on whatever the next DX question may be, though. At least this series tries to get players to think along the way. Although, the original was better at making you constantly question what it is you were doing!

CyberP
2nd Apr 2014, 02:46
The other problem is that DX, even though it has a set date, does not belong to any set period of the universe per say. In some regards, it's more low-tech than the world we were living in when it was released

Eh? You'll need to elaborate on this some. No tech was outdated for 2000. Outdated for 2052 from what we can imagine, yes, but part of the reason for that is the great collapse and global turmoil.

FrankCSIS
2nd Apr 2014, 02:52
Heh, low-tech is probably not the right way to put it. The world, or mood itself, I s'pose, felt very 90's in many regards. Hence why I think it often felt like an alternate present, sometimes more so than some semi-distant future. Exploring the past of an alternate present is all the more complex, and so HR got stuck between a rock and a hard place, is what I'm trying to say in so many words! Again, I think the idea of a prequel to Blade Runner, shot today, is the best way to illustrate how inappropriate the whole project may wind up.

CyberP
2nd Apr 2014, 03:11
Heh, low-tech is probably not the right way to put it. The world, or mood itself, I s'pose, felt very 90's in many regards.

:scratch:

Infiltrating hi-tech labs, hacking translucent flat screen computers, running around at 30mph with speed enhancement, a world in turmoil with secret organisations operating openly and revolutionaries fighting in the streets of NYC and so on and on, gives you a 90s vibe? Nothing to me screams 90s except the engine the game was built on.

Eh, I was not a day over 10 in the 90s so perhaps I shouldn't argue with this, but you are perhaps associating something in your life from the 90s with something familiar in the game and blowing it out of proportion? Hmm you are Frank, I'll trust your judgement.



But I do agree, I wanna see more Illuminati/MJ12 stuff. I especially wanna see if they really did dissect Beth DuClare, or if Icarus was just messing with us.

What makes you think the AI was lying? I never got that impression.

WildcatPhoenix
2nd Apr 2014, 03:20
I hear this mentioned a lot. I guess it's because of all the trench coats and techno-goth looking NPCs? Surely it's more than the 4:3 ratio computer screens (JJB, I'm looking at you!).

The music is straight out of the '80s.

FrankCSIS
2nd Apr 2014, 03:22
Almost every piece of Cyberpunk feels that way, whether it was published in the 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's. It's one of their main thing, they feel a lot more contemporary than futuristic, because they are sociologically-driven. DX is a product of its time, with a lot of 90s pop culture and themes tied to it. That's not negative or anything, just to be clear. Again, it's the driving force of many cyberpunk pieces. Their future is more "alternate-present", something you could easily wake up into without being the least bit surprised.

Hell, HR is exactly like that as well, except it's an alternate late-2000, with a late-2000 feel to it. And that's the problem with trying to reconcile this with the alternate late-90's DX, all in the past tense. There is no verb tense for this!

Again with the Blade Runner prequel, to make this absolutely clear. In order to recreate the BR world, one would have to put himself back into an 80's mindset, which is pretty much impossible, because the whole thing would feel like a period piece. But even if you did manage to recreate the alternate 80's of Blade Runner, you would THEN have to imagine what its past would be like. How do you create the alternate past of an alternate-80's and avoid the trap of making it look like an alternate 2014? Alternate 70's? That wouldn't work. So you're pretty much screwed any which way you go!

CyberP
2nd Apr 2014, 03:33
Ah yes I get you. There is heavy X-files influence (<3) and such, and yeah there's a guy with a trench coat, music style sure is not going to be popular in the future (unfortunately) but I still don't find that stuff pervasive/invasive to the experience I guess, and nor do I really associate it with any time period in-game, just get immersed and have fun :).



The music is straight out of the '80s.

I am confused again. There was no drum & bass/jungle in the 80s, for one!

FrankCSIS
2nd Apr 2014, 03:40
Well, one last point and then I let it go ;) The problem is this: Play Deus ex alone, the whole thing is not intrusive. It was not released so long ago that it makes the experience less contemporary or unbelievable (though I think those of us who played it when released got a better experience than those who would play it today, because it was "our" time then, we were in that X Files mindset).

Play HR alone, not intrusive either.

But HR feels too much like late-2000 to pass as the past tense of the late-90's DX. And that's the problem. That's where they shot themselves in the foot. And the more time passes, the more they try to catch up with the original DX in the timeline, the more evident this will be.

Ultimately it doesn't change much, of course, because we're not playing those games back-to-back for the first time. But it explains why HR was somewhat doomed to be uni-dimensional. There is nowhere to go, no room to grow!

WildcatPhoenix
2nd Apr 2014, 04:12
I didn't have a problem with higher fidelity graphics or even a depiction of a "golden age" before everything decays into the rotting, dirty, disease-ridden world of DX1.

But I did have a problem with the level of technology being depicted in DXHR. I'm sorry, I don't think anyone's going to be building a roof on top of Shanghai in the next 13 years (16, when DXHR was released). I don't think helicopters will look as fancy as Malik's VTOL thingy, and I don't think boxbots or anything that advanced will exist yet.

The world of DX1 stuck out in my mind because of how familiar it felt. Sure, there was plenty of super high-tech stuff like Universal Constructors and plasma rifles and cyborgs, but at the core it was a world I could recognize. Buildings in NYC and Paris were still mostly made of brick or wood, most weapons still used ballistics and resembled existing armaments, helicopters still looked like helicopters, people still rode the metro. The only things that really stand out to me as dated are the landline telephones.

I had played plenty of sci-fi games with levels composed of super clean, sterile hallways with enemies carrying laser rifles and whatnot. They were fun, but they didn't have the impact on me that Deus Ex did. For all of its speculative commentary on the future, Deus Ex still feels immediate and real to me.

But Human Revolution? Human Revolution felt much closer to the world of Invisible War (in terms of aesthetics, at least) than DX1.

Karpaw
2nd Apr 2014, 10:01
The perception of DX1 as "low-tech" is mostly a result of engine limitations and art style. Technology as depicted in Human Revolution is not more outlandish than in a game with lightsabers, acid-spitting gen-engineered animals, molecular manufacturing devices and asteroid mining (not portrayed but mentioned in lore) in a time of global economic depression. But HR has a shiny golden filter, which subconsciously makes people associate it with decadent "hi-tech" (indeed, this is probably the intended effect and entirely congruent with the game's themes).

Robotics is one of the fastest developing technological fields. The use of drones in warfare or domestic surveillance was discussed only in futurist circles just a few years ago, now it's talked about in the US Congress and among politcal activists. The development of boxguard-like robots by 2030 is not inconceivable, especially if social unrest continues to grow and governments devote more resources to these types of projects for "urban pacification".

The Shanghai Pangu, while more fantastical, is an artistic flourish obviously inspired by the city's real-life development in a single generation and extrapolated to symbolize the rise of China as a global superpower.
The upper pic is from 1990, the lower from 2010.


http://www.thenandnowphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/shanghai.jpeg

CyberP
2nd Apr 2014, 11:20
T]

Best defense of HR's tech I've read. Corporate-owned advanced VTOL's, likely. Boxguards? Perhaps.
Dual layered city and ridiculous gold theme ruins it though, that's not happening in 2027. Gold theme isn't happening at all. You shouldn't apply artistic colour themes that are present globally (and applied to everything to the HUD borders and general text) in a game intended to be somewhat of a simulation (though the devs gave not enough ducks about this, which is unfortunate because the game attempts to be believable in many instances and does share some Looking Glass sim design elements, though too few). Unfortunately judging by released concept art some time ago for DX4 nothing seems to have changed in that regard; still sticking with their overdone colour schemes.
If you insist on this then at least give in-game reason for it (Example: gold mist is pollution from advanced VTOLs as a half-assed reason).

http://www.thenandnowphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/shanghai.jpeg

^Just look, I see lots of colours. The majority of that would be gold in Human Revolution's universe. <- Note the wording, no use of the phrase "Deus Ex".
It's like the lead artist took a look at Deus Ex's box art and saw it was all blue and said, "that looks cool, lets do that in-game but gold!"

That said, perhaps we are too hard on JJB, as Paris in DX is predominantly blue :/ (though there's a fair amount of green, brown and grey too).
Then again maybe not, because A) that's just Paris, it's not Global, and B) it's not applied to the lighting, there are no dominant lighting colour themes in DX, and it's not applied to damn near everything else either.

I'm surprised Jensen's armblades and guns are not gold either ;) Also, GOLD LASERS.

This dead horse has not just been beaten, but sodomized? It is very irritating though. Not suitable for DX.

Lucifer
2nd Apr 2014, 11:52
Human Revolution is top picture, Deus Ex is bottom picture.

CyberP
2nd Apr 2014, 11:55
Human Revolution is top picture, Deus ex is bottom picture.

As a metaphor for game design I agree: Deus Ex is more advanced ;)

I am not sure what you actually meant by the way. Colour related I assume?

Lucifer
2nd Apr 2014, 12:03
Yea , In mind of developers Deus Ex should look like the first picture, but reality is different.

CyberP
2nd Apr 2014, 12:06
Yea in mind of developers Deus Ex should look like the first picture.But reality is different.

Not until it has a gold filter slapped on it :)

I'm just kidding, there is no gold filter contrary to popular belief, just the majority of everything else IS gold.

@fedora: I wouldn't say HR is an uncreative title, it's great and has it's unique, special moments, and clearly a lot of passion went into it despite obvious issues, it's just not on the classic Immersive Sim's level in my opinion, but nothing else is and expecting such quality is just being entitled perhaps :).

I'm still looking forward to whatever the core team has in store for us regardless, but I will be disappointed if it is not an improvement over HR.

Lucifer
2nd Apr 2014, 12:28
With all this gold filters the player can have the feeling that he is not in the future, but in the past.And that's very important.You can see it on this pictures.

WildcatPhoenix
2nd Apr 2014, 14:13
The perception of DX1 as "low-tech" is mostly a result of engine limitations and art style. Technology as depicted in Human Revolution is not more outlandish than in a game with lightsabers, acid-spitting gen-engineered animals, molecular manufacturing devices and asteroid mining (not portrayed but mentioned in lore) in a time of global economic depression. But HR has a shiny golden filter, which subconsciously makes people associate it with decadent "hi-tech" (indeed, this is probably the intended effect and entirely congruent with the game's themes).


You're probably right about the engine limitations. Things probably just worked out that way because Ion Storm couldn't depict a super-futuristic downtown Manhattan or Hong Kong with existing tech in 2000 (and it just happened to contribute to the atmosphere I was describing earlier, for better or worse).

I disagree, though, that technology in Human Revolution is not more "outlandish" (your word, not mine) than DX1. Human Revolution takes place twenty-five years before DX1. Twenty-five. Do you think a helicopter owned by a private firm made twenty-five years before the SH-187 would look that much more advanced? I'm not talking about the graphics, obviously. I'm talking about the VTOL vs rotor design, the cockpit, etc.

What about the lack of mechanical locks on any of the doors? What about the sleek, easily-concealed biomechanical augmentation? One of the major points of introducing nanoaugmented agents in the first place was because they could more easily blend in with the civilian population. Apparently all UNATCO/MJ12 needed to do was slap a jacket on them.

HR looks and feels closer to Star Trek or Mass Effect to me than Deus Ex. These kinds of images, for example:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_cWTLs-AhAK73fDyKGmwjq20lYJr-5b-9u20B5bkaicjRJ6pJ

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTM5giuKWWD6u8oxtyv3uE_rM9WBAj99IpcvuB85UstpCQxEdVZQA

CyberP
2nd Apr 2014, 14:26
HR looks and feels closer to Star Trek or Mass Effect to me than Deus Ex.

Which is silly primarily because it's the year 2027.

Copter vs VTOL though, I think by 2052 VTOL's will be more likely to be used by UNATCO. But this is in 2052, and used by a Government organization. I believe Deus Ex to be wrong in this instance. But Human Revolution didn't try and fix it, or more preferably stay true to it regardless, the devs just said "**** Deus Ex we're doing our own thing; giving the world Midas' touch and making 2027 more advanced in an overall sense than it will ever possibly be just because...because urmm, let me get my notes....ahh yes, artistic expression".

:D

I cannot predict the future but 2027, as you said, is only 13 years away. It will not be anything like what is depicted in HR. A lot can change in 13 years but...nope.

Who is next to ride the horse?


You're probably right about the engine limitations. Things probably just worked out that way because Ion Storm couldn't depict a super-futuristic downtown Manhattan or Hong Kong with existing tech in 2000 (and it just happened to contribute to the atmosphere I was describing earlier, for better or worse).


Of course they could. It was intentional, for whatever reason. We assume it's the collapse, Gray Death and world turmoil, but certain things should really be a touch more advanced, especially those fat telephones.
Still believable though, the dated tech in DX won't be disappearing from our world anytime soon. Yes fat telephones will become rarer and rarer, but they will still exist in some form. As collectors' items even. What EM done with HR however is just pure fantasy, odds are 1:100000000000 that the world will be forced to use golden coloured lightbulbs in 2027, and dual layered cities existing, and the rest. Privately-owned VTOL's though, I'll give them that. And boxguard-like robotics perhaps.

If we are all wrong in 13 years we can eat the dead, rotting horse we have been beating the crap out of. Still massively contradictory to DX's lore though, which means EM should have to eat the less-desirable parts of the horse :p

Lucifer
2nd Apr 2014, 15:54
I hope they will change the approch to new DX,leave that sci-fic ,back to realism.

OneUp77
2nd Apr 2014, 22:52
Hmm mankind divided.

I wonder if the divided part has anything to do with California sinking into the ocean in 2030?

WildcatPhoenix
3rd Apr 2014, 03:40
Hmm mankind divided.

I wonder if the divided part has anything to do with California sinking into the ocean in 2030?

Ha! I wish (the 2030s are much more interesting in the DX timeline, IMO...so hopefully we'll get to those events soon instead of the "golden age" depicted in DXHR).

CyberP
3rd Apr 2014, 05:06
I didn't address these:


Technology as depicted in Human Revolution is not more outlandish than in a game with lightsabers, acid-spitting gen-engineered animals, molecular manufacturing devices and asteroid mining (not portrayed but mentioned in lore) in a time of global economic depression.

MJ12 are immune to the depression. MJ12 are the primary cause of much of the madness, especially via the Gray Death, and they can and do whatever they please. MJ12 are also responsible for the light saber and DNA splicing (Versalife), right? I'm not sure of the origins of the universal constructors and such, however.

There is also first the argument of unbelievable tech/gold theme, and then the argument of contradicting DX's lore, no matter how outlandish...which DX is on some occasions, yes, but in a general sense it tried not to be and was set 52 years into the future allowing the devs much freedom, we cannot challenge the believability of it all too well.

Whatever we say though, Invisible War exists. This gives EM a free ticket to butcher DX in any way they please since the original devs done it. I suppose we should be grateful HR was even a OK/good game and leave it at that.

Spyhopping
3rd Apr 2014, 18:11
Just had to delete a bunch of posts. I've tried the friendly approach twice already and it's not working, so if you'd like a lovely 1 week temp ban, carry on bickering and posting personal attacks in this thread.

If you are on the receiving end of personal attacks, please don't give personal attacks back and start an argument. Just report it- we'll get rid of it and we'll try to sort it out for you.

Lucifer
3rd Apr 2014, 18:40
So if DX 4 Manking Divided will be released in 2015 then its gonna be vs Cyberpunk 2077.Interesting.

Lucifer
12th Apr 2014, 12:12
Why this topic is dead .Hello

CyberP
12th Apr 2014, 12:14
Because all we have is the name of the title to discuss, hence why there was lots of off topic antics.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
12th Apr 2014, 14:29
The Omar are coming... :naughty:

ResidentX
12th Apr 2014, 16:17
It's going to be hard to top Human Revolution...

zwanzig_zwoelf
12th Apr 2014, 18:26
bro i agree with you i loved human revolution it is the best in the series it had so much details like in the first deus ex like info that malik is in love with jensen while in original deus ex jc and paul were lovers these bits of information are cool also human revolution has the best shooting and stealth system still i think there must be more hubs, but smaller cuz i hated hong kong and liberty island in original deus ex but i loved trier and cairo in invisible war

Lady_Of_The_Vine
12th Apr 2014, 19:22
If we must compare... then I would say the original Deus Ex is the better game.
But there is no argument that DX:HR is still an amazingly fun and challenging game to play.
I have no hesitation in recommending it.
DX:IW is my least favourite of the series. Its only redeeming feature is the Omar; of course. :p

CyberP
12th Apr 2014, 19:31
If we must compare... then I would say the original Deus Ex is the better game.
But there is no argument that DX:HR is still an amazingly fun and challenging game to play.
I have no hesitation in recommending it.
DX:IW is my least favourite of the series. Its only redeeming feature is the Omar; of course. :p

You just had to throw in something about the Omar didn't you. :p Careful, 'cause I'll start mentioning MY MOD in every. single. post, similar to how you mention Omar, then all hell will break loose, because apparently people don't like hearing good things happening to DX.


in original deus ex jc and paul were lovers

My life has been a lie. :nut: You sure you even played the Original?


human revolution has the best shooting and stealth system

Shooting I can accept as subjective. Regenerating invisibility makes HR's stealth a joke, however. And this is just one problem of many.
I suspect you are a troll account, primarily because of the overuse of "bro", but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

FrankCSIS
12th Apr 2014, 23:29
It's going to be hard to top Human Revolution...

Don't see it that way. For better or for worse, they've built solid grounds to expand and give a bonified offer with their next title. As long as their debriefing was an honest one, not plagued by stubbornness or the whims of experimental marketing, they can make a classic and solid game that would easily top HR.

Think of how Asylum evolved into City, or Ass Creed 1 into Ass Creed 2. I know both franchises have some serious gameplay issue, but strictly in terms of evolution between sequels, the effort was more than commendable. Both studios managed to drastically improve their titles by either attacking key problems identified by both press and fans, or building much larger worlds on top of the existing foundation. There is no reason for HR not to move into a similar direction, and transform a surprise hit into a solid hit. Somewhere along the way, they could most likely satisfy original players marginally more, with some key optional features that wouldn't be too hard to implement with little costs.

The game will only be difficult to top if they simply try to reproduce it. Unlike Thief, the issues with HR are easy to identify and correct, leaving room and time to build a bigger, better game.

ResidentX
13th Apr 2014, 00:04
If we must compare... then I would say the original Deus Ex is the better game.
But there is no argument that DX:HR is still an amazingly fun and challenging game to play.
I have no hesitation in recommending it.
DX:IW is my least favourite of the series. Its only redeeming feature is the Omar; of course. :p

Your Crazy. I played partially the original DE but DE:HR floored me. The cinematics, the interface, the maps designs, the takedowns, the replay factor. Sorry...way better.

ResidentX
13th Apr 2014, 00:07
Don't see it that way. For better or for worse, they've built solid grounds to expand and give a bonified offer with their next title. As long as their debriefing was an honest one, not plagued by stubbornness or the whims of experimental marketing, they can make a classic and solid game that would easily top HR.

Think of how Asylum evolved into City, or Ass Creed 1 into Ass Creed 2. I know both franchises have some serious gameplay issue, but strictly in terms of evolution between sequels, the effort was more than commendable. Both studios managed to drastically improve their titles by either attacking key problems identified by both press and fans, or building much larger worlds on top of the existing foundation. There is no reason for HR not to move into a similar direction, and transform a surprise hit into a solid hit. Somewhere along the way, they could most likely satisfy original players marginally more, with some key optional features that wouldn't be too hard to implement with little costs.

The game will only be difficult to top if they simply try to reproduce it. Unlike Thief, the issues with HR are easy to identify and correct, leaving room and time to build a bigger, better game.

The Magic of DE:HR must not be touched! The only way to evolve it is to leave everything the same and just advance the story. I'm playing DE: The Fall and they made some changes in the game interface that players aren't really utilizing because they're looking at it from the DE:HR perspective.

What things would you improve with DE:HR? I liked the changes with the Director's Cut(I still think the original DE:HR was more challenging though). I don't agree with you about the Stealth Feature. I thought having it limited was a good design. Having players walk through the game in Stealth would not make the game appealing.


Don't see it that way. For better or for worse, they've built solid grounds to expand and give a bonified offer with their next title. As long as their debriefing was an honest one, not plagued by stubbornness or the whims of experimental marketing, they can make a classic and solid game that would easily top HR.

Think of how Asylum evolved into City, or Ass Creed 1 into Ass Creed 2. I know both franchises have some serious gameplay issue, but strictly in terms of evolution between sequels, the effort was more than commendable. Both studios managed to drastically improve their titles by either attacking key problems identified by both press and fans, or building much larger worlds on top of the existing foundation. There is no reason for HR not to move into a similar direction, and transform a surprise hit into a solid hit. Somewhere along the way, they could most likely satisfy original players marginally more, with some key optional features that wouldn't be too hard to implement with little costs.

The game will only be difficult to top if they simply try to reproduce it. Unlike Thief, the issues with HR are easy to identify and correct, leaving room and time to build a bigger, better game.

I want to continue my comment from above. I hear you about the evolving but I do not want this to become Assassin's Creed. I guess this game is going that way already with Ben Saxon, sigh...

My only measure of a game is the replay factor. How many different ways can I reach my goals? This cyberpunk/tech augments allows you so many creative ways to accomplish things. It's a lesson about how modest changes can make dramatics changes in the way you solve problems in the game.

My final comment...playing DE:HR I've developed a respect for the developers. I've watched so many videos that showcases the personalities of the development team. I'd hate to see them fail trying to prove themselves further. Sometimes you just can't improve things. I'd like to see the story of the augments continue but I'm not looking for tons of new characters and stories methods like in GIJOE. I hope they keep Deus Ex lean and tight!

CyberP
13th Apr 2014, 00:47
Your Crazy. I played partially the original DE but DE:HR floored me. The cinematics, the interface, the maps designs, the takedowns, the replay factor. Sorry...way better.

Your opinion has little weight when it comes to a comparison. Observe what you are saying. Replay factor? Lol. You haven't a clue. Deus Ex is a more intelligently designed game than HR. HR had smarts too, but it was smart in that it was designed for the masses, to the detriment of it's artistic integrity. It also just lacked content that should have been there without question. And don't even get me started on the gameplay. Wait, no, no rants today.


I do not want this to become Assassin's Creed.

That was not the suggestion, observe what you are reading.


My only measure of a game is the replay factor.

Observe what you are saying.


Sometimes you just can't improve things.

Indicating you believe Human Revolution cannot be improved. Obser...
...kids these days. I fear the future of gaming for what this past generation of games has done.

And now I am being mean to the newbie, shame on me.

The original Deus Ex, which I consider to be the greatest game of all time, still has so much room for improvement, even after all the improvements that....yeah, I won't finish that sentence to save a forum riot.

Game design, in the foreseeable future, as far as I can see, can always be improved no matter the game, as far as I am concerned. Nearly every game ever released has had obvious flaws, and Human Revolution is a very notable example of the fact, and the original for that matter. Even once you clean up the flaws, there is always room for improvement. Of course, some aspects of design are subjective. Others, no, objective.

FrankCSIS
13th Apr 2014, 00:47
The Magic of DE:HR must not be touched! The only way to evolve it is to leave everything the same and just advance the story.

That would be the biggest mistake they can do, if they wish to truly build an established series, even if it's only for one or two additional titles.

I'd need to replay it and freshen up on the issues to come up with specific details. Outside of the obvious, like boss battles, they would need more features, and a bigger world. Personally I'd throw in augs which affect the playstyles more drastically, coupled with more unique situations where certains augs can make an actual difference. Beyond the usual stealth vs shoot, people like to play. Let them play and have some creative fun. They are already familiar with the HR basics, you can challenge them more and get your players to learn new tricks.

In the same vein, now that the players are used to your game, you can make alternate paths/approaches less obvious, and more differentiated, also leaving room for creativity. You can play with existing and new augs to allow people to make their own path, instead of offering 3 different keys each matching their obvious key hole. I understand the weariness of multiple paths for their first title with a modern audience, but the crowd is proper warmed up now for a harsher workout.

Couple that with bigger worlds, better map layouts, less repetitive action and more unique sequences, and you can easily top the HR offer.

68_pie
13th Apr 2014, 01:05
It's going to be hard to top Human Revolution...

Not really. It would be easy to make a marginally better game and very easy to make a worse game.


bro

Bro


in original deus ex jc and paul were lovers

Head-canon alert.


i think there must be more hubs, but smaller cuz i hated hong kong and liberty island in original deus ex but i loved trier and cairo in invisible war

So you want something that is antithetical to Deus Ex?


Your Crazy. I played partially the original DE but DE:HR floored me. The cinematics...the takedowns

Oh, it makes sense now. You liked the things that had no place being in a DX game.


the maps designs

Were terrible (N.B. not talking about the art direction, although I have quibbles with that in places). Most of them felt completely inorganic and totally designed.


the replay factor. Sorry...way better.

ilcRS5eUpwk

You could do pretty much everything in one playthrough and the playstyles aren't radically different to each other.


I want to continue my comment from above.

You've heard of the edit button, right?


I hear you about the evolving but I do not want this to become Assassin's Creed.

You misunderstood what he wrote.

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 01:29
My life has been a lie. :nut: You sure you even played the Original?

bro i beat the original game at least 3 times and i remember clearly that jacobson said that jc stayed with paul and there is only one bed also paul treats his brother too softly and his voice trembles when he is talking to jc they definitely had something i just know it


Shooting I can accept as subjective. Regenerating invisibility makes HR's stealth a joke, however. And this is just one problem of many.
I suspect you are a troll account, primarily because of the overuse of "bro", but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

bro no offence but you can call anyone a troll account just because someone has a different opinion deus ex human revolution is the best game of deus ex series for me i beat original game at least 3 times, beat invisible war at least 7 times, beat human revolution at least 6 times and planning my 7th playthrough


So you want something that is antithetical to Deus Ex?

bro i could get lost in human revolution even with objective marker the maps were too big and complex despite that i think hr is the best game among series i think invisible war has better level design

EricaLeeV
13th Apr 2014, 01:38
bro i agree with you i loved human revolution it is the best in the series it had so much details like in the first deus ex like info that malik is in love with jensen while in original deus ex jc and paul were lovers these bits of information are cool


bro i beat the original game at least 3 times and i remember clearly that jacobson said that jc stayed with paul and there is only one bed also paul treats his brother too softly and his voice trembles when he is talking to jc they definitely had something i just know it

I can't wait to see these fanfics. I just hope they were beta-read first.

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 01:40
bro what fanfics are you talking about i am talking about the deus ex game not about some mumbo jumbo by some teenage girl who decided to make a first attempt at writing a book

FrankCSIS
13th Apr 2014, 01:49
Surely there is some slash fiction out there, involving Paul and JC.

And Gunther/JC.

And Simons/JC.

And Icarus/JC.

Manderley and Paul? Maybe.

EricaLeeV
13th Apr 2014, 02:35
bro what fanfics are you talking about i am talking about the deus ex game not about some mumbo jumbo by some teenage girl who decided to make a first attempt at writing a book

I'm going to answer this seriously, because, why not?



bro i agree with you i loved human revolution it is the best in the series it had so much details like in the first deus ex like info that malik is in love with jensen while in original deus ex jc and paul were lovers these bits of information are cool


bro i beat the original game at least 3 times and i remember clearly that jacobson said that jc stayed with paul and there is only one bed also paul treats his brother too softly and his voice trembles when he is talking to jc they definitely had something i just know it


Not sure if you have a brother or sister, but the way Paul and JC talked to each other seemed very normal for those within immediate familial relationships. It was sincere, honest, and personal; it's one of the reasons I particularly enjoyed this game's character relationships as opposed to other games in the series. Paul was meant to be the more emotional and forthcoming of the two brothers so it's only proper that he would talk to JC in a "trembling" matter. He probably realized that his time was coming soon...he may never see his brother again and, at certain points of the story, he can't disclose why to JC. It's a tale filled with heavy consequences for those participating; a normal human being might find themselves getting a little emotional.

Paul did have his own hotel room, but when he (or perhaps UNATCO?) rented it I doubt he was thinking about potential visitors at the time so why get a two bed suite? Maybe JC coming over to visit was a spur of the moment thing or perhaps JC was initially just going to come over to say hi but stayed a little longer than they both thought he would. Happens all the time with people, so maybe Paul offered him to stay the night instead of going all the way back to wherever JC lived at the time. Perhaps JC accidentally fell asleep when watching the movies his brother rented. There is a couch there and those are comfortable enough. Buuut even in the event that the two slept in the same bed, that's not so bad either. People can sleep in the same bed without any relations going on. I know it sounds impossible in today's media but trust me...it happens!


However, in the end, your interpretation of their relationship is just as valid as anyone else's. As time goes on sexuality of many kinds are gaining acceptance by different cultures at large. For example, who is to say most people wont claim to be bisexual to a degree in the future? Maybe in this bleak future, two brothers finding comfort of that kind in each other is just an outcome of their circumstances? You never know.



Surely there is some slash fiction out there, involving Paul and JC.

And Gunther/JC.

And Simons/JC.

And Icarus/JC.

Manderley and Paul? Maybe.

I know a certain someone on this forum wrote a fine Gunther/Paul piece once. :cool:

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 02:43
bro im not saying its bad jc and paul might play with each other who cares but we need to find out more about them maybe paul went to hong cong because he was in love with maggie chow and couldnt molest jc anymore without consequences


Fair enough.

When it comes to die-hards Human Revolution seems to attract the most...unique of fans :lmao:

....I am such a douche sometimes. I do try to better myself, honestly.

bro its okay to do yourself dont worry i wont laugh at you

EricaLeeV
13th Apr 2014, 02:50
bro im not saying its bad jc and paul might play with each other who cares but we need to find out more about them maybe paul went to hong cong because he was in love with maggie chow and couldnt molest jc anymore without consequences

I'm not saying it's bad either. It's just another interpretation of a subjective media.


And oh my Lord that is an amazing thought on Paul's journey to Hong Kong, this stuff is interesting...

CyberP
13th Apr 2014, 02:52
I'm not saying it's bad either. It's just another interpretation of a subjective media.

There is a degree of objectivity to game design. How a player perceives it is purely subjective, yes, but that could just be they are missing the point, kinda like the3rdmillhouse in this thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=143315).

EricaLeeV
13th Apr 2014, 02:55
There is a degree of objectivity to game design.

Yep, sure can be.

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 03:26
bro ericaleevee lets marry and ill read you my deus ex fanfics every day <3

FrankCSIS
13th Apr 2014, 03:32
There. All this thread lacked was romance.

You youngsters brought joy to this old man's heart. A last glimpse of beauty in this terrible world. Whatever happens next, I may disappear without regrets.

EricaLeeV
13th Apr 2014, 03:43
bro ericaleevee lets marry and ill read you my deus ex fanfics every day <3

Forum marriage is the most legitimate. Readin' those fanfictions all night long.

http://37.media.tumblr.com/c3057e82dc25b05ec599f50fda6cfc8d/tumblr_n1nvm1BnDF1skt0xfo1_500.jpg


You youngsters brought joy to this old man's heart. A last glimpse of beauty in this terrible world. Whatever happens next, I may disappear without regrets.

We'll never forget you Frank!

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 03:50
bro aww, lets dance now
wait is that a yes

FrankCSIS
13th Apr 2014, 03:59
We'll never forget you Frank!

http://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5873022/il_fullxfull.288438575.jpg?ref=l2

ResidentX
13th Apr 2014, 04:03
Fair enough.

When it comes to die-hards Human Revolution seems to attract the most...unique of fans :lmao:

....I am such a douche sometimes. I do try to better myself, honestly.

I want to clarify my comments

1. Assassin's Creed. I know it won't become that but I picked that one because the game spawned into so many directions. I think a series loses energy when you bloat it.

2. DE:HR - I feel they had an efficient design. Can it be improved? Sure, but I think if they change it too much they won't get the result they want. The interface becomes too heavy or maps really become big and your running long distances. I just think they got some of the key stuff right. DE:HR is light. You don't have to spend a lot of time reading books on how to play it.

3. What's wrong with replay factor?

68_pie
13th Apr 2014, 06:38
DE:HR is light.


DE:HR is light.


DE:HR is light.

...

That's not a good thi--

Oh, why do I even bother?

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 06:44
bro its good when the game in intuitively understandable like if music is wooooo that means no combat if music wubwubwub that means the combat is going then like i can press a button to crouch behind cover then use directional keys or analog stick to aim and pop out of different sides of the cover etc

CyberP
13th Apr 2014, 09:12
:lol: You guys are all exceptionally funny today. I'm not doing this thread justice!

hybridex
13th Apr 2014, 15:36
Are you all sure it is the name for DX4.. or could it be the name for the movie?

WildcatPhoenix
13th Apr 2014, 15:47
Are you all sure it is the name for DX4.. or could it be the name for the movie?

We have no idea, really, which is why this thread has degenerated into nonsense. ;)

hybridex
13th Apr 2014, 16:35
It's surely not nonsense, now.. it's actually an intriguing thread; the possibility of the unknown. Does it not capture your senses..?

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 17:21
bro join the fun of thinkin what next deus ex will be i hope it will be a cool game like heavy rain or beyond two souls but with romances from dragon age 2 and epic story from call of duty

CyberP
13th Apr 2014, 17:23
bro join the fun of thinkin what next deus ex will be i hope it will be a cool game like heavy rain or beyond two souls but with romances from dragon age 2 and epic story from call of duty

I've got my eye on you, you supernatural creature of Norse mythology.

-Neon-
13th Apr 2014, 17:57
Too rushed atm to read all these latest posts, but clearly some people did not unlock the hidden JC/Paul Denton romance subplot in Deus Ex, which was clearly hinted at in one of the books in IW.

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 19:07
bro reinstalling deus ex like now to replay and see for myself

FrankCSIS
13th Apr 2014, 19:46
from dragon age 2

I think it ought to have actual dragons in it.

Augmented dragons.

Spyhopping
13th Apr 2014, 20:45
This thread has gone to places a thread should never ever go.

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 21:04
I think it ought to have actual dragons in it.

Augmented dragons.

bro i already see an engaging story line like dragon comes to paul denton and hes like 'ill tell to manderley everything about an affair between you and jc' then paul like man you gotta be kidding me he pursues the dragon to the china while telling jc to keep his mouth shut about their little games then he falls in love with maggie chow and hes like happy they kill the dragon and suddenly jc has a mission and paul remembers that he used to kiss jc every time he had an exam for more confidence so he flies to liberty island to kiss jc and say good luck and so we have a decent deus ex prequel

CyberP
13th Apr 2014, 21:08
bro i already see an engaging story line like dragon comes to paul denton and hes like 'ill tell to manderley everything about an affair between you and jc' then paul like man you gotta be kidding me he pursues the dragon to the china while telling jc to keep his mouth shut about their little games then he falls in love with maggie chow and hes like happy they kill the dragon and suddenly jc has a mission and paul remembers that he used to kiss jc every time he had an exam for more confidence so he flies to liberty island to kiss jc and say good luck and so we have a decent deus ex prequel

Such passion...for bad fanfic :p

Lady_Of_The_Vine
13th Apr 2014, 21:15
This thread has gone to places a thread should never ever go.

Everything needs to be free.... :D

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 21:22
Such passion...for bad fanfic :p

bro you probably underestimate my writing power read my thief fanfic and tomb raider fanfic too i think they are amazing

CyberP
13th Apr 2014, 21:24
bro you probably underestimate my writing power read my thief fanfic and tomb raider fanfic too i think they are amazing

Link?

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 21:47
Link?

bro i guess my hilarious and fantastic thief fanfic got deleted unfortunately i didn't have a copy of it ill check if i have a copy here are tomb raider fanfics

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=2001738&postcount=29
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=2001452&postcount=23

CyberP
13th Apr 2014, 21:51
bro i guess my hilarious and fantastic thief fanfic got deleted unfortunately i didn't have a copy of it ill check if i have a copy here are tomb raider fanfics

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=2001738&postcount=29
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=2001452&postcount=23

I am confused as to why you exist, supernatural creature of Norse mythology. You are meant to be supernatural myth, yet here you are.
What is your purpose? Hell if I'll ever understand. Reasoning that is Cat in the Hat-esque perhaps.

zwanzig_zwoelf
13th Apr 2014, 21:52
bro i dont understand what are you talking about

Jito463
13th Apr 2014, 23:33
I am confused as to why you exist, supernatural creature of Norse mythology. You are meant to be supernatural myth, yet here you are.
What is your purpose? Hell if I'll ever understand. Reasoning that is Cat in the Hat-esque perhaps.

I couldn't say, but I've got to the point of just putting him on ignore. I get that his posts are supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but I just can't stand them.

zwanzig_zwoelf
14th Apr 2014, 01:00
bros stop diskussing me already im not a celebrity here or something lets rather diskuss the mankind divided what do u expect from the game ppl

FrankCSIS
14th Apr 2014, 03:07
bros stop diskussing me already im not a celebrity here or something lets rather diskuss the mankind divided what do u expect from the game ppl

Well, the name suggests more of the same about transhumanism. I suspect we're going to replay the exact same story, from Barrett's point of view.

It's going to be an exceptionally short game.

Personally, I'd love to replay Deus Ex from the point of view of vending machines.

zwanzig_zwoelf
14th Apr 2014, 03:56
bro i like that idea like i am nikolas i am a manvendingmachine i can shoot chips from my left hand and spill cola from my right hand im fighting purists in a big city of the size of one hundred square meters or god its heaven

3rdmillhouse
20th Apr 2014, 01:18
Imagine how awesome it would be to play as a member of the NSF. Do you guys think we'll get to play as Adam again in this sequel?

WildcatPhoenix
20th Apr 2014, 03:12
Imagine how awesome it would be to play as a member of the NSF.

Or MJ12. (wait a second, that's my idea!)


Do you guys think we'll get to play as Adam again in this sequel?

Based on the endings to DXHR I'd say no, but then again, Square did seem to be trying hard to establish Jensen as a franchise icon, so maybe...

Shralla
20th Apr 2014, 03:32
I really hope not.

FrankCSIS
20th Apr 2014, 03:48
Adam gets decommissioned, augs replaced by standard prosthetic, gains a lot of weight, hits his midlife crisis and becomes a low-ranking sleeper MJ12 trooper stationed in Prague.

Until his past catches up with him.

This thing writes itself!

Please don't

zwanzig_zwoelf
20th Apr 2014, 05:53
bro please do yes i want deus ex in prague with adam jensen the fat cookie cutter

Sponge
8th May 2014, 23:43
I think it ought to have actual dragons in it.

Augmented dragons.

In that case, they should just make a Shadowrun game.

OneUp77
7th Oct 2014, 03:59
Mobile games, triple packs......

Something tells me Square isn't serious about the next Deus ex game, all they care about is making cheap, casual games.

Money being squandered away, layoffs happening, then Eidos has no choice but to sell off the IP to another developer and ending with the closing of Eidos and a bullcrap speech from Square saying:" We are sorrying they had to close their doors but they should focus more on the game while we squander their monies away".

Lady_Of_The_Vine
9th Oct 2014, 12:16
Something tells me Square isn't serious about the next Deus ex game...
To me, the DX franchise is most likely one of their most important assets. :cool:


Money being squandered away, layoffs happening...
What money was squandered?
The lay-offs you mention are normal procedure in this transient industry. When a game is finished its time for staff to move on to the next contract - either with the same company, or another one.

Shralla
9th Oct 2014, 18:31
Well, the latest in the line of squandering was them changing the engine for Kingdom Hearts 3 mid-development.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
9th Oct 2014, 22:04
I would have to know the reasons for the change before I could agree that there is squandering going on here. :p
Did they divulge the reasons?

Perhaps porting will be easier and more cost effective; maybe they intend a future PC release?
Just speculating...

Miyavi
11th Oct 2014, 09:10
After a revolution, mankind becomes even more divided, before its division prior to and during the revolution.

Shralla
11th Oct 2014, 18:32
Perhaps porting will be easier and more cost effective; maybe they intend a future PC release?
Just speculating...

That's the only thing I can think, other than that maybe their Luminous engine isn't really all it was cracked up to be. Either way it's still a damaging move, they should have picked the right engine in the first place.

Shaikh
8th Apr 2015, 17:43
Question: Deus Ex: Mankind Divided is Deux Ex 4 title?
Answer: Yes. :D