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View Full Version : The AI remembers your face...



S3R6i0
22nd Feb 2014, 16:28
A disguise won't save you if an NPC has seen your face already. For example, if a security guard notices you entering the building disguised as a painter, and then he spots you again upstairs in the command center as a guard, that should be a means to blow your cover. Furthermore, the engine should provide the player with a way to recognize an NPC that has made eye contact with you or come into mutual visual contact with you. An NPC that has seen you but you not seen them or vice versa should not alert the player. This alert should exist only in the same room, not across rooms and floors.

It would be nice if Hitman 6 created a tension on par with early Resident Evil.

Thoughts?

AdrianShephard
22nd Feb 2014, 16:35
A disguise won't save you if an NPC has seen your face already. For example, if a security guard notices you entering the building disguised as a painter, and then he spots you again upstairs in the command center as a guard, that should be a means to blow your cover. Furthermore, the engine should provide the player with a way to recognize an NPC that has made eye contact with you or come into mutual visual contact with you. An NPC that has seen you but you not seen them or vice versa should not alert the player.

It will be Absolution all over again. This will force the player not to use disguises as sneaking around would be much easier.

Perhaps if you do something suspicious in front of someone, they will remember your face (like running or walking to close to someone). Sort of like how in Absolution, if you stood a couple inches from someone, they would turn around and look at you while commenting. This could actually be a good way to force the player not to be reckless (as you could in BM). I think it could be an OK compromise between the super-suspicious AI in Hitman 2 and the overly laid back AI of BM.

S3R6i0
22nd Feb 2014, 17:17
It won't be Absolution all over again. In Absolution you had no control over who was going to make you out. As long as your mindful of your surroundings and exercise wit you will be fine. I really think they should work really hard on the engine and the AI, make it as flawless as possible. Absolution had so many bugs and loose ends it was not enjoyable. They should design the engine on par with Metal Gear Solid, not the gameplay or the story, just the level of quality in how the game runs.

mcescher1
22nd Feb 2014, 21:00
again, i think this is something dev's would really have to tinker with for a while to get right....

and if it doesn't go right i think you could be looking at a disaster coughabsolutioncough

its not a terrible idea... but i don't think it would add a whole lot to the game - not enough to be worth it anyway

examples

does everrryone remember your face?? civilians, workers, guards, everyone??

would someone really freak out about this??

"I SWEAR I SAW YOU EARLIER!!!! SHOOT HIM!!!!" no

or

"THAT GUY LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THAT JANITOR I SAW EARLIER!!!! KILL HIM FAST!!!!" no

or

"WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DRESSED LIKE A ICE CREAM MAN FOR??? YOUR A COP!!! KILL HIM!!!!!!" no

S3R6i0
22nd Feb 2014, 23:05
Like I said, it should depend on the situation. A janitor or a painter should be a strike on the evidence sheet. A red alert bodyguard on the other hand, should be on the defensive.

agent047
23rd Feb 2014, 05:08
The disguise system needs to be more like BM than absolution

Example1: 47 find a cop alone in the bathroom he harmless him and take his disguise, if there is another cop outside the bathroom waiting for the colleague and instead he see 47 walking out the bathroom dressed up like a cop he has to get souspicious despite the disguise.. but once you have avoid that one cop the other cops don t care about you (principle know the face)

Example2: If the target has 4 bodyguards and you disguise like one of them, they ll become suspicious but if the target has securitymen all over the place is valid the rule of example one

Example3: 47 takes the dress of the maid that clean the 3rd floor of a hotel but his target is at the 2nd floor when u meet the maid of the 2nd floor he will become suspicious (principle of invading spaces)

HITMAN IS NO SUPERMAN he can t see through the wall or prevent the route of the enemies so the istinct function become the "diversion function" that make 47 able to cover his face with the hand and other nonsuperhuman things that may help him avoid looks

S3R6i0
23rd Feb 2014, 05:50
The disguise system needs to be more like BM than absolution

Example1: 47 find a cop alone in the bathroom he harmless him and take his disguise, if there is another cop outside the bathroom waiting for the colleague and instead he see 47 walking out the bathroom dressed up like a cop he has to get souspicious despite the disguise.. but once you have avoid that one cop the other cops don t care about you (principle know the face)

Example2: If the target has 4 bodyguards and you disguise like one of them, they ll become suspicious but if the target has securitymen all over the place is valid the rule of example one

Example3: 47 takes the dress of the maid that clean the 3rd floor of a hotel but his target is at the 2nd floor when u meet the maid of the 2nd floor he will become suspicious (principle of invading spaces)

HITMAN IS NO SUPERMAN he can t see through the wall or prevent the route of the enemies so the istinct function become the "diversion function" that make 47 able to cover his face with the hand and other nonsuperhuman things that may help him avoid looks

Okay. That whole comment made absolutely no sense. 47 is not a human, but he is also not Superman. If he was Superman, the game wouldn't be interesting, or difficult.

agent047
23rd Feb 2014, 06:09
It may not make sense to you becouse it seems you didn t read. I never said 47 is human, yes 47 is not SUPERMAN, so in hitman 6 i would like to see only real thing: not the route of the enemies, not through the walls,

gkkiller
23rd Feb 2014, 06:58
It would work well if some NPCs were 'linked', i.e. a squad of police officers had 'linked' AIs. Linking basically means if 47 took the disguise of one of the linked NPCs, and got close enough to another linked NPC, they would slowly (I repeat: SLOWLY) get suspicious on recognising he wasn't part of their group. That is to say, there would be two different types of detection:
1) Suspicious action (S) detection: when 47 is caught doing some suspicious actions, regardless of whether he is disguised or not.
2) Face detection (F): when 47 is disguised with a linked AI's disguise, and gets close to an AI with the same link (e.g. 47 is wearing police officer disguise and walks in hand-holding distance of one of the squadmates of that police officer), they will recognise that he is not 'one of them' for lack of a better phrase, and detect him.

To see the practical application of this I'll take the example of a small mission with police at a crime scene into three different squads.
- 47 takes the disguise of a member of Squad 1.
-- He is seen changing disguises by someone - S detection.
-- He is not seen and is now in disguise of Squad 1 policeman.
--- 47 mingles with Squad 2 or 3 policemen.
---- If he performs any suspicious action, he is detected by S detection.
---- No F detection because his disguise is not 'linked'.
--- 47 mingles with Squad 1 policemen.
---- If he performs any suspicious action, he is detected by S detection.
---- If he gets too close to another Squad 1 officer, they will slowly realise he is not a member of their squad and will detect him by F detection.

If 47 is S detected, he can change disguises, and people will just look for someone in the same disguise. But if he is F detected ... members of the 'linked AI' (in my example, Squad 1 detectives) will remember his face regardless of disguise. However, other AI (like Squad 2 detectives) will remember only the disguise and not the face*.

* - can be tweaked so that the linked AI (Squad 1) passes on the face information to non-linked AI (Squads 2 and 3), and everyone knows who 47 is - more realistic, but less fun.

Obviously the mechanic may need to be tweaked/balanced if masked/helmeted disguises work differently from regular disguises. But I'm confident that next-gen power can bring us this idea.

agent047
23rd Feb 2014, 15:54
Yes linked AI was what i was trying to say i would really enjoy

AdrianShephard
23rd Feb 2014, 16:06
Okay. That whole comment made absolutely no sense. 47 is not a human, but he is also not Superman. If he was Superman, the game wouldn't be interesting, or difficult.

I understood what his post was trying to convey. His point about the Superman thing was that Instinct should be removed i.e. he doesn't like that it highlights the paths for you/you can see through walls.

AdrianShephard
23rd Feb 2014, 16:14
It would work well if some NPCs were 'linked', i.e. a squad of police officers had 'linked' AIs. Linking basically means if 47 took the disguise of one of the linked NPCs, and got close enough to another linked NPC, they would slowly (I repeat: SLOWLY) get suspicious on recognising he wasn't part of their group. That is to say, there would be two different types of detection:
1) Suspicious action (S) detection: when 47 is caught doing some suspicious actions, regardless of whether he is disguised or not.
2) Face detection (F): when 47 is disguised with a linked AI's disguise, and gets close to an AI with the same link (e.g. 47 is wearing police officer disguise and walks in hand-holding distance of one of the squadmates of that police officer), they will recognise that he is not 'one of them' for lack of a better phrase, and detect him.

To see the practical application of this I'll take the example of a small mission with police at a crime scene into three different squads.
- 47 takes the disguise of a member of Squad 1.
-- He is seen changing disguises by someone - S detection.
-- He is not seen and is now in disguise of Squad 1 policeman.
--- 47 mingles with Squad 2 or 3 policemen.
---- If he performs any suspicious action, he is detected by S detection.
---- No F detection because his disguise is not 'linked'.
--- 47 mingles with Squad 1 policemen.
---- If he performs any suspicious action, he is detected by S detection.
---- If he gets too close to another Squad 1 officer, they will slowly realise he is not a member of their squad and will detect him by F detection.

If 47 is S detected, he can change disguises, and people will just look for someone in the same disguise. But if he is F detected ... members of the 'linked AI' (in my example, Squad 1 detectives) will remember his face regardless of disguise. However, other AI (like Squad 2 detectives) will remember only the disguise and not the face*.

* - can be tweaked so that the linked AI (Squad 1) passes on the face information to non-linked AI (Squads 2 and 3), and everyone knows who 47 is - more realistic, but less fun.

Obviously the mechanic may need to be tweaked/balanced if masked/helmeted disguises work differently from regular disguises. But I'm confident that next-gen power can bring us this idea.

Didn't Hitman 2 have something sort of like that? Except that anyone with your disguise could see through it. As I recall, if I had on a guard uniform and I stood next to another guard, they would slowly get suspicious (represented by that bar on the top left that would constantly pulse) and eventually shoot at me. It sounds a little like Absolution but if you were smart, it wasn't nearly as hard.

A question to you though. How would you know which NPC's were "linked"? I can imagine it would be easy to find out if the Instinct mechanic came back but seeing how most people hate it, I don't know how it would work.

agent047
23rd Feb 2014, 17:17
It is quite difficult for me to be so optimistic about both the storyline and the gameplay of H6 because I waited 6years and after I played "the king of china town" I realized that it wasn t hitman.
Disguise pratically useless the best way is alwais sneaking, nonsense istinct, linear levels,the combat is bad and the storyline had also twisted 47 personality,

The only improves of absolution are that the player can put the corps into the dumpster with 1 or 2 buttom instead of 6 buttoms and that 47 can throw the objects but also about this is impossible to knockout someone hitting him with a plasticbong so in H6 is better if 47 can throw and use the objects in a "krav maga way" (is better a plasticpen to kill someone)

I will be so much happy to say you was right when H6 comes out
For now if the designer are interested in some feedback: please concentrate on the main game (sniper challenge was a waste of time) and contractmode was a nice idea but has to be improved and if it is too expensive (time/money) it has to be removed

S3R6i0
23rd Feb 2014, 18:04
A question to you though. How would you know which NPC's were "linked"? I can imagine it would be easy to find out if the Instinct mechanic came back but seeing how most people hate it, I don't know how it would work.

This is why the Instinct is such an important feature that people seem to be overlooking. I don't want to start another war on this, but it's the very reason other games use it. Assassins Creed, for example. The Last of Us; holding down a button makes the screen go dark and nearby enemies, representing sound vibrations, are outlined in white. It solves a lot of issues. The problem with Absolution wasn't really Instinct itself, it was that it was poorly developed. The disguise detection was a good idea, just poorly developed. Had they tweaked it more and limited the recognition to certain NPC's or certain situations, it would've been a lot better. Raise the AI difficulty a little to offset the real time quirks people had and, voilĂ*.

AdrianShephard
23rd Feb 2014, 18:35
This is why the Instinct is such an important feature that people seem to be overlooking. I don't want to start another war on this, but it's the very reason other games use it. Assassins Creed, for example. The Last of Us; holding down a button makes the screen go dark and nearby enemies, representing sound vibrations, are outlined in white. It solves a lot of issues. The problem with Absolution wasn't really Instinct itself, it was that it was poorly developed. The disguise detection was a good idea, just poorly developed. Had they tweaked it more and limited the recognition to certain NPC's or certain situations, it would've been a lot better. Raise the AI difficulty a little to offset the real time quirks people had and, voilĂ*.

I feel it's the exact opposite. The problem with Absolution is that everything revolved around Instinct. Disguises, enemies' paths, and even point shooting. It is almost impossible to play Absolution if Instinct isn't used in one way or another. Again, in my opinion, there are more negatives to Instinct than positives.
There must be other ways to know if NPCs are "linked", if that's even going to be a mechanic... Now that I think about it, I much prefer the idea of 1 or 2 squad leaders that would become suspicious much quicker than the other guards. And these squad leaders would be easy to identify because they have on a special/different outfit.

agent047
23rd Feb 2014, 18:43
47 may mark the enemy linked to his disguise
with no overscreen arrow but simply when ai is starting to get souspicious on 47 there will be some sorth of visual audio effect like you start to hear a whistle or see out of focus....
I want to point you that the enemy will be "linked" first of all if they share a patrol area so if you don t go again in that precise room or floor they can t recognize you because they patrol a very restricted area to be linked

ANOTHER TIP the importance of the blood
1. if you trag a stabbed corps there will be a bloodtrail
2. if you step into a blood puddle there will be blood tracks (obviosly for 5/6 steps not forever)
3-if you take the dress of a victim you have the blood/shootholes on the dress

mcescher1
24th Feb 2014, 02:42
ditch instinct

BLOODMONEY 2!!BLOODMONEY 2!!!BLOODMONEY 2!!

AdrianShephard
24th Feb 2014, 03:01
ditch instinct

BLOODMONEY 2!!BLOODMONEY 2!!!BLOODMONEY 2!!

Second person.

agent047
28th Feb 2014, 02:47
ditch instinct

BLOODMONEY 2!!BLOODMONEY 2!!!BLOODMONEY 2!!


:thumb: o yeah:cool:

agent047
4th Mar 2014, 17:10
refresh

AdrianShephard
5th Mar 2014, 01:08
refresh

If people wanted to comment, they already would have.