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View Full Version : Point and Shoot?? or First Person Option?



mcescher1
5th Feb 2014, 00:08
In Absolution there was a new 'shooting style'... point and shoot

this design resulted in the first person option being cut/dropped or impossible


I for one really enjoyed the option to switch from 3rd person to 1st person...

i would use 1st person in different scenarios... and 3rd person in others

switching back and forth gave me an increased sense of control ... it also allowed for different perspectives and was quite enjoyable

i get that 'point and shoot' is the what actual professionals use in the field

butttt couldn't you let us do it??? and not automate it ??

i think the point and shoot also added to the 'fake' feel of absolution

it added to the feeling that a first grader could beat the game - or a chimpanzee

anyone else like the first person option over the point and shoot??

mikom
5th Feb 2014, 09:01
I miss the first person option and I do think it should come back. The point and shoot I dont need in a Hitman game, if I wanted to play Splinter Cell, that is what I would play.

Hitman needs to expand on what makes them unique, not trying to emulate other games-

S3R6i0
5th Feb 2014, 11:10
In Absolution there was a new 'shooting style'... point and shoot

this design resulted in the first person option being cut/dropped or impossible


I for one really enjoyed the option to switch from 3rd person to 1st person...

i would use 1st person in different scenarios... and 3rd person in others

switching back and forth gave me an increased sense of control ... it also allowed for different perspectives and was quite enjoyable

i get that 'point and shoot' is the what actual professionals use in the field

butttt couldn't you let us do it??? and not automate it ??

i think the point and shoot also added to the 'fake' feel of absolution

it added to the feeling that a first grader could beat the game - or a chimpanzee

anyone else like the first person option over the point and shoot??

In Blood Money the first person wasn't very good, it actually zoomed out into almost a fisheye like view and when shooting it made your target further away from you. Shooting was actually easier in 3rd person. If it's regarding shooting the problem has been alleviated ever since Resident Evil 4 introduced the over the shoulder style of camera that zoomed in when you aimed, which was also in Absolution.

I understand, some people are more immersed in first person. I'm one of those people that like to see his character for some reason. I think they should bring it back but I won't be using it. Especially when your dragging enemies and the camera has to switch back and forth between the 2. Personally, I don't really think it's a very relevant or important feature. And to waste a button action over something like that that could be used for something better like another melee move or a hold, I think, why even bother?

As for the point and shoot, you gotta admit analog sticks are terrible for aiming. And pulling off those spur-of-the-moment head shots is impossible with them. I like doing all the work myself but at the same time I like "feeling" like an assassin, not some $10 rent-a-clown who's never fired a gun before. As with the the first person, I think it should be included. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. But, I don't think the gun play, as much as a Hitman game can have any, should be determined by the point-and-shoot, it should play as if it were 100% free aim. When I played Max Payne 3 I played it on free aim and used the bullet-time sparingly. The problem with that game is it was next to impossible to beat because the AI was developed with auto-aim in mind. Hitman should play as if free aim.

Something I mentioned in another post, to you two, btw, is how there should be heavier consequences for shooting people, for example, blood splatter from a headshot or a trail of blood left by a body you just dragged will alert suspicion, that way it will be balanced and the point-and-shoot will be there for more for aftertouch or style and not part of the core gameplay. Also, what if 47 could get some multi-purpose spray and a mop and clean up his trail in some instances? :cool:

mikom
5th Feb 2014, 12:28
The bloodsplatter and the bloodtrails is something I really missed in Absolution. So I agree with you that they should bring it back. As I play Hitman mainly on pc I dont have any trouble with aiming, and while it's harder to aim on console I still think that aiming by yourself and executing perfect headshots is more satisfying than just marking someone and see the game shoot them for you. For people who find it hard to aim with a controller I think that autoaim is the best way to go, a big reason is that it's optional. While you can choose to not use pointshooting I think it's time spent on something that really isnt worth it.

Btw, the mental image of having 47 on his knees cleaning the blood up with a spray made me chuckle.

S3R6i0
5th Feb 2014, 12:46
The bloodsplatter and the bloodtrails is something I really missed in Absolution. So I agree with you that they should bring it back. As I play Hitman mainly on pc I dont have any trouble with aiming, and while it's harder to aim on console I still think that aiming by yourself and executing perfect headshots is more satisfying than just marking someone and see the game shoot them for you. For people who find it hard to aim with a controller I think that autoaim is the best way to go, a big reason is that it's optional. While you can choose to not use pointshooting I think it's time spent on something that really isnt worth it.

Btw, the mental image of having 47 on his knees cleaning the blood up with a spray made me chuckle.

The blood splatter and blood trails were never a component of the gameplay, they were visible, but enemies were immune to them. And I'm glad I made you laugh about Agent Janitor.

mikom
5th Feb 2014, 12:56
Agent Janitor, now that's a spinoff that needs to happen!

I played BM not long ago and the guards did follow the bloodtrails when they found them so it did affect gameplay. You can also see it here in the description http://www.ign.com/wikis/hitman-blood-money/May_30_2006# . You might argue though that it didnt affect the gameplay enough, but that's something else.

mcescher1
5th Feb 2014, 18:20
Agent 47... 'the cleaner'

the master of turpentine

lol

if they do throw a auto aim or 'point shoot' in this one i feel like manual aim should be default and you should have to switch to the auto aim if thats what you prefer

the first person view did make it a litttle harder to shoot.. but you could also be more accurate and the satisfaction was greater too

when i was sneaking around i would use the first person and head shot unsuspecting people... if i was discovered iwould usually switch out of the FP and start to spray a bit

i also liked the fact that when dragging someone or doing some actions the view would shift out of first person view... it was like a mini-animation break that looked cool and it was functional as well.. it made sense

mikom
5th Feb 2014, 18:36
First times I played through Blood Money and Contracts I didnt even know first person was a option, so I just played in third person. But when I found out you could play in first person I really started liking it, just because it gives a different way of seeing things. I also agree that the game should be made for and with free aim in mind. The auto aim I can understand for the console users though.

S3R6i0
5th Feb 2014, 21:30
Do you guys remember the 'fine tuning' from Contracts when aiming? Pressing a certain button would decrease the aim sensitivity quite drastically, my only problem with it (playing on a console) was having to hold down the same analog stick I was using to move the reticle. It was just awkward. But, anyway, I really liked that about Contracts and was surprised to see it removed from Blood Money. I think that was the best way to handle the free vs auto-aim debate, if they did it right.

AdrianShephard
6th Feb 2014, 04:00
I like how Rockstar Games solves the problem of aiming from 3rd person. The inclusion of a "time dilation" ability really helps (for console users, PC user have the advantage here). If IO got rid of point shooting and implemented a mechanic such as this, aiming would be easier.

Just a thought.

S3R6i0
6th Feb 2014, 08:14
I like how Rockstar Games solves the problem of aiming from 3rd person. The inclusion of a "time dilation" ability really helps (for console users, PC user have the advantage here). If IO got rid of point shooting and implemented a mechanic such as this, aiming would be easier.

Just a thought.

I don't see the difference between Red Dead Redemption's Dead Eye and Absolution's Point Shooting. They both basically slow down time and allow for you to plot a combination of shots before executing them in real time. I'm a supporter of the time manipulation because I'm on a console, but the thing about R* is that they rely on auto-aim and time manipulation too much. Max Payne 3, for example, is next to impossible to play on free aim, as the enemy AI was heightened up to keep up with the auto-aim, the enemies were coming at you a lot harder. Red Dead Redemption is a good example of how it should be. You could play it on free aim with no problem and the Dead Eye is there as a special move, not a means to an end. Come to think of it, Absolution was the same way, it was auto-aim by default but I had no problem with free aim.

mikom
6th Feb 2014, 09:58
I agree that the difference between Dead Eye and Point Shooting are miniscule, so I really dont think any of them fit into a Hitman game. The optional auto aim is the best way to go for me.

I dont think I used Point Shooting once in Absolution, except the first time when you had to. So obviously you can choose to play the game and never use it, but the reason why I want it gone is because the time spent on Point Shooting could be better used perfecting other parts of the game. Put in auto aim and scrap Point Shooting.

AdrianShephard
6th Feb 2014, 16:17
I don't see the difference between Red Dead Redemption's Dead Eye and Absolution's Point Shooting. They both basically slow down time and allow for you to plot a combination of shots before executing them in real time. I'm a supporter of the time manipulation because I'm on a console, but the thing about R* is that they rely on auto-aim and time manipulation too much. Max Payne 3, for example, is next to impossible to play on free aim, as the enemy AI was heightened up to keep up with the auto-aim, the enemies were coming at you a lot harder. Red Dead Redemption is a good example of how it should be. You could play it on free aim with no problem and the Dead Eye is there as a special move, not a means to an end. Come to think of it, Absolution was the same way, it was auto-aim by default but I had no problem with free aim.

Keep in mind that the whole point of Max Payne is Bullettime. The game is made specifically around that mechanic. So not making the enemies' aim better to accommodate Bullettime would make the games far too easy for the majority of players.

I guess I wasn't thinking of the "tag and execute" function of Dead Eye when I suggested it. I actually thought that it was too easy in RDR so I only used Dead Eye to line up my shot. If Hitman allowed you to slow down time for 1 or 2 shots, I think that would be great. It doesn't have to be all out Matrix style.

mcescher1
6th Feb 2014, 17:06
i think if your in first person there should be no auto aim...

i don't think i quite mind the automatic aiming when in 3rd person.. as usually im running or not really taking the time to aim while in the 3rd person...

but i want to feel like i have control over where the bullets go... not that im just kind of button smashing and watching the bullets gloriously pierce enemies effortlessly... i feel like im in kindergarten when that stuff happens.. im just like.. why am i playing this game?? i dont even have to aim

if hitman is about being stealthy and precise.. the player should feel that experience... not be force fed

S3R6i0
6th Feb 2014, 17:12
i think if your in first person there should be no auto aim...

i don't think i quite mind the automatic aiming when in 3rd person.. as usually im running or not really taking the time to aim while in the 3rd person...

but i want to feel like i have control over where the bullets go... not that im just kind of button smashing and watching the bullets gloriously pierce enemies effortlessly... i feel like im in kindergarten when that stuff happens.. im just like.. why am i playing this game?? i dont even have to aim

if hitman is about being stealthy and precise.. the player should feel that experience... not be force fed

I liked the aiming in GTA IV, the way the reticle would lock on and you could shoot your enemy in the head or even in the leg as he was running easily. You could even alternate between manual and auto-aim in-game.

mikom
6th Feb 2014, 18:37
As long as it's something you can toggle in the options I have no problem with auto aim in first person or third person.

mcescher1
7th Feb 2014, 00:22
As long as it's something you can toggle in the options I have no problem with auto aim in first person or third person.

i would also like it if for 'contracts' and in general you would get extra points for using the 'manual' shooting... as it takes more skill and would weed out 1st graders

and if you have a high accuracy maybe achieve a unique title like 'talented marksman' or 'manual marksman' or 'manual master'

gkkiller
7th Feb 2014, 11:36
I think the way they have it now works great. Squeeze the trigger (or hold Shift while aiming on PC) and the crosshairs lock in, slowing time slightly to improve your accuracy.

mikom
7th Feb 2014, 11:43
Dont forget that Hitman isnt about the shooting. It's about execution the hits in creative silent ways. Getting more points for free aim or to 'weed out' anyone is not needed.There might be times where I dont want to have to think about the shooting, but instead focus on how to take him out the best way possible. There's plenty of fps that you can play and get highscores in. Hitman shouldnt be made into something it's not. It's not primarily a shooting game. You show you're better than other people by executing the hit silently and without any collateral damage. Not by the amount of headshots you got.

S3R6i0
7th Feb 2014, 12:29
Still, having 2 or 3 well placed shots looks cleaner than having empty shells all over the place.

mikom
7th Feb 2014, 12:51
Of course it does, because it's more efficent, professional and leaves less evidence. But if you go around killing everyone on the map it doesnt matter if it's headshots or not, you've still failed to do a silent hit. And that's the aim of the game- The shooting is just a means to an end-

mcescher1
7th Feb 2014, 21:00
Dont forget that Hitman isnt about the shooting. It's about execution the hits in creative silent ways. Getting more points for free aim or to 'weed out' anyone is not needed.There might be times where I dont want to have to think about the shooting, but instead focus on how to take him out the best way possible. There's plenty of fps that you can play and get highscores in. Hitman shouldnt be made into something it's not. It's not primarily a shooting game. You show you're better than other people by executing the hit silently and without any collateral damage. Not by the amount of headshots you got.

how can you say Hitman is not about shooting??

in the world of Assassins shooting accuracy is a worshiped skill

head shots are the most respected - especially one shot kills

if the computer is aiming for you what kind of hitman does that make you??

its like comparing packaged cheese on white bread with brie' on brioche topped with tomatoes and cilantro ... sounds good don't it... man im hungry!

the freedom to shoot people how you like creates style

ive said this before... but if you really want auto aim - have a toggle on or off and make the default manual aim, plus add bonus points for players using manual

mikom
7th Feb 2014, 22:32
When it comes to assassins, obviously shooting is a big part. And a headshot is always what you want. But it doesnt matter if it's through free aim or auto aim as, once again, Hitman isnt primarily a shooting game. It's a problem solving game. A thurd person puzzle game. You get a problem, kill this guy, now it's your mission to solve that problem as best as possible. Through shooting or not. And if you choose the gun, the optimal way is to only use on bullet, one shot. And to focus a whole lot of time on something that may just be used once every level, is not a big problem.

Most of us doesnt play Hitman for the shooting, we play it fo the challenge of killing undetected.
So to penalise someone who wants to use auto aim by giving them less points is silly. Free aim vs auto aim is simply what is more fun to you, or to make it easier to play with a controller. And to be frank, I play Hitman mainly on pc so this isnt a big issue for me as I will use free aim.

mcescher1
8th Feb 2014, 01:18
free shooting adds another element to the game... something that personally, i feel is important

sometimes the shot is the most important thing... and the most difficult - if its on auto aim its like bowling with bumpers on... you cant miss! it can take the fun out of the kill

S3R6i0
8th Feb 2014, 01:44
Free aim will undoubtably be an option, but like the mikom points out, Hitman is about so much more than shooting that it's one of the least relevant aspects for that reason. The blood splatter and entrails is something that heavily affects the shooting. Whether you shot someone through your own hard work or your aim was guided by an external force it really doesn't make a difference because now you're f****cked because someone will eventually walk up and find a trail of blood leading to an ice chest or a splatter of blood on the wall. Since the focus of the game is strategy and tactic, shooting someone becomes as relevant as strangling them or slitting their throat.

BTW, the enemy AI is governed by auto-aim, so your actually at a disadvantage. If they dumbed down the enemies shooting to the players, that something else.

mcescher1
8th Feb 2014, 02:35
this blood topic has been popping up a bit...

i don't remember blood trails playing all that big of a role in discarding bodies...

i think i remember sometimes the AI noticing it but not really affecting all that much

maybe there could be like a short period of time that would allow you to transport the body with minimal blood loss (10-20-30 seconds)

and if you shoot the neck its an automatic blood loss (miss the headshot, but still a one shot kill)

mikom
8th Feb 2014, 10:57
The first seconds are the time when you are going to bleed the most. I think the bloodtrails should be there and visible. The challenge then becomes in finding a good place to execute someone so you dont have to drag them a long way. To me that's more realistic and more in accordance with what 47 would do.

The bloodtrails weren't a big part of BM. The fact why I think many people didnt notice them is because as long as you put someone in a dumpster or something the people didnt find the bodies anyway. I dont know if it's a good idea to change it all too much. Maybe make guards become more tense and in a higher alert if they find blood, but having a body you've hidden be found doesnt sound fun to me.

branco18
10th Feb 2014, 12:34
I don´t know why are some people so scared of better shooting mechanics in this game. It does not change this game. This is HQ game and should be made good in every dimension. I love to play SA direction in Hitman, it is great and chalenging. But It is not the only way how I play that game. Sometimes I just want to shoot everybody, or kill everyone and try to avoid attention. Hitman has so many ways you can play and I think it in every way it should be done as well as they can. I loved MP3 shooting mechanics because I was able to shoot them in legs and they fell, then beautifully shot them in the head. What I miss in Hitman game - is shooting through materials like wooden door - not just glass. And Hand to hand combat - you should quickly take down someone without some stupid quickttime events. I am not saying this game should be done as an ACTION GAME! Shooting, Hand to hand combat mechanics should be there only if everything fails. Like a situation when GUARDS ARE LOOKING FOR SUSPICIOUS BALD PERSON. I think If this would be pulled of correctly - It would make 47 even more professional. I don´t want this game to be action game. I just want 47 as a character was lethal as he can be. I don´t care about weapons like vase, guitar... I always used Sil.Silverballers, fibre wire and a knife. But make 47 into weapon himself with many abilities would be much bigger fun.

mikom
10th Feb 2014, 15:31
I just feel it's important to make it clear to the devs what we want. Obviously we want everything to be good, but not on the expense on something more important.

HITMANfromHELL
10th Feb 2014, 19:51
Diversity in the levels is one of my favorite aspects. Stealth should be the number one focus obviously. But I do like to "experiment" with levels. Finding paths for infiltration, and interesting and useful parts of the environment to hunt my target. What I'm getting at that choice is great for everyone. I do believe the option of third person and first person view should be back. As well as mechanics for other play styles. I like the idea of shooting through a wooden post or drywall with a high powered sniper rifle that would instantly kill my target. Gun Mechanics should be retooled. Just my opinion.