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mikom
31st Jan 2014, 18:13
As I felt it went in a complete wrong direction in Absolution I want to share some thoughts I have about him and how I think he should be portrayed.

He's a cold calculated killer for hire. That's how he should be protrayed. Not a hero, not emotional. In Absolution he was getting angry and losing his temper. It also felt like they tried to give him the moral highground. How is that a contract killer? A contract killer needs to be patient and stable. Also if you kill people for money you cant have the moral highground. It's one thing in Silent Assassin, because he actually quit the game to reconsider, but he went back to being a hitman.

The whole fun with 47 is that he is amoral. He's not evil or good. He doesnt exactly like or dislike killing. But he takes pride in doing what he does because he's good at it.
And this coldness means that he can blend in at both the Meat Kings party and in a nice opera house in France. Posh party or the most depraved people imaginable.

I understand that when you have a story you need to create tension which you can resolve at the end. A easy way to do this is to have someone doubt himself, lose something or have a flaw which they can overcome. But that isn't 47, and that's not the way he should be. The tension in the story should come from the people he is hunting and the people around him.
The appealing thing with 47 is that he's flawless when it comes to his job.

I think they should confront the character like Hannibal Lecter combined with Lee Van Cleef in The Good, the bad and the ugly. With Diana being almost like Clarice. She may have a civil relationship with 47 and she may even like him, but he's still a killer and she should be aware of that fact and therefore not easily let her guard down.

Another thing with Hitman is that he's good at what he does because he does it silently and without people noticing him or connecting him with what happened. The best of times the death is just seen as an accident. So with all this said, how is there even rumours going around about him outside of the Agency? I mean he's a tall muscular bald guy with a barcode tattoo on the back of his head. His strength in remaining undetected is most definitely not his looks.

So if there's rumours going around about someone with his looks going around killing people and then he shows up, people would know something was up. Even the risk of someone having heard the slightest thing about him would create major problems when preparing for a job. It would also create more risk for the Agency when sending him out. The whole cool thing was that people didnt even know he existed. The kills were so many and on so many different locations I always imagined that people didnt even connect them with each other and that's how he stayed undetected.
I also assumed that the whole thing with him being a clone helped him a lot because being brought up in an Asylum he doesnt exactly have a social security number, which also maked him more invisible.

The big threat in Blood money was that Alexander Leland Cayne had started putting facts together and now was telling a journalist about them. Which ended with the great conclusion that everyone who knew Cayne knew was killed by 47 and therefore once again he was a ghost. A great conclusion which seemed to be null and void in Absolution (Thanks to the scriptwriter Martin Brennan).

This a few of my thoughts about 47. What do you people think about him? How do you view him? How should he be portrayed?

MrAtmea
31st Jan 2014, 19:41
YES!

47's persona took a turn for the worse in Absolution. Hes not supposed to be a hero, something they tried to make him in Absolution. He helps people because its benefits him, not because its the right thing to do. IMO this makes him unique from pretty much any other game character, and that's exactly why I like him. Everything is permitted to finish the contract. Its what he does, and hes the best at it.

47 should be intelligent, silent and creative. Nothing more, nothing less.

mikom
31st Jan 2014, 20:18
Nice to see you agree. He lost his some of his unique feel in Absolution when they polluted him with things I think they'd seen in other games.

For example the single mindness of him is very interesting. Seeing his hideout in BM where everything he had there were dedicated to the job. I think they should stop being afraid to show him as the antihero he is. It's the villains in the movies who are the most interesting just because they aren't tied down with things ordinary people are, and because that you never know exactly what goes on in their heads.

If they need some tension or a problem for him to face it should be external. Bringing back the Franchise from BM would work great.

Nogarda
31st Jan 2014, 23:51
Most of that can be summed up, as required story elements. 47 appears empty in some previous games because he is always on the job when it starts. Hitman 2, is evidence he has a caring nature in him. Put that with his promise to a 'dying' Diana and it's a case of his word is his bond. He made a contract of sorts and he fulfilled it. You can't be 47 without being intelligent enough to plan, organise and risk assess 99% of your situations. So when someone turns out to be a complete douchebag, he knows it. So maybe, just maybe he's thinking the world would be a better place without them in it.

I am however in full agreement that blood money's ending needs to be explored in some fashion or another, and I'm not talking a single throw-away line of dialogue either, which'd be the biggest cop-out ever. Throw that in with the police investigation in the conclusion of H:A and the rabbit hole goes a bit deeper.

Finally my personal theory is that in the time before 47 took out his remaining clones in H2:SA the others may have made tiny errors 47 wouldn't make and get spotted. But because they all look a like no one is aware they are clones. So with 47 still alive he is automatically the prime suspects in some assassinations he had nothing to do with.

AdrianShephard
1st Feb 2014, 04:13
Yes, good points.

47 is the definition of an anti-hero. DEFINITELY not a hero. He only works for money. No promises, no rating system points, no nothing.

mikom
1st Feb 2014, 07:59
Nogarda: Interesting theory about the other clones. It would be cool if the information that is out there about him, the rumours, didnt stem from errors he made, but errors made from the other clones. That right there would create uncertainty about what the police thought they knew and would also create a problem that require fixing.

When it comes to 47s emotion, he's clearly impaired somewhat. You need to be to successfully do his job. It's not like he can pick and choose from assignments, if you got enough money you can get him to kill for you. If you look at what he does with his money, he simply uses it on tools for the trade and his suit. And I think it's interesting the suit is the only thing that doesnt have anything to with his job that he puts money on. It's almost as if he knows there is something missing in him so he puts a lot of effort to look the best he can to compensate for it. This all doesnt mean he's completely devoid of all emotions or devoid of the capacity of feeling, but the fact of his upbringing means he had a less than stellar start in that regard, and his job stop any possible development to happen.

The whole deal with Diana may simply be a lot to do with the fact that getting a new handler makes a new variable he needs to take care of. All of a sudden he has a new person he needs to figure out before he can trust them. He knows where he has Diana.

It also doesnt mean he doesnt like her, but I think it has more to do with familiarity than anything else. Even the most coldhearted psychopath can like people, but they like them more in the way you like a piece of furniture, it benefits you, you're familiar with it and you know what you got. This doesnt mean that's the way he looks at Diana, it may but it may not. The fact that you dont really know how he does is the interesting part. What I think you can be certain of is that he doesnt look at her the same way as a normal person would.

Even the fact with how he reacts with the death of the priest in SA may give hints of how cold he may be. A normal person mourns when someone dies and gets distraught to the point where you cant function the same way as before, and if you choose to take revenge in some way, after the revenge you're probably going to crash into depression before you can pick yourself up again. Because putting ones feelings on hold like that doesnt make them go away, but instead just holds them back for a while. The average person still needs to take care and resolve those feelings before continuing.

I think when the priest died 47 noticed his lack of true sadness and that's why it was even more important to take revenge. Because as he couldnt show his respect with feeling, he could do it by action. The action of taking revenge became the way to show that he appreciated what the priest had done for him. It became the way he could compensate for the lack of feeling when he died. It's also telling that when the revenge was over the mourning seemed to be concluded. And like I said, for a normal person revenge would just delay the true mourning, but in his case it was the mourning. Or at least show of mourning.

Another telling part is how fast he went back into the game, and how little he actually referenced him afterwards. This doesnt mean he didnt appreciate what the priest did or forgot what happened. He most definitely took something away from the priest. But it's clear he appreciated the actions of him more than anything else, and most likely the actions are the reason why he liked him if he did, not because of any emotional feeling towards him.And later when the revenge was done he felt like he had repaid those actions and could therefore continue without problems.

I hope his actions in H:A is simply because he was finishing a contract Diana paid him for. I want to think she paid him to save Victoria and help her, and thats the underlying reason why he did it.

123
9th Feb 2014, 20:38
The new pictures of 47 show that the bar code is back. So hopefully that means that their going to omit Absolution completely from the canon. Also I agree with most of what you said about the way 47 should be portrayed except two things.
47 is a international criminal, a murder,"badguy", a villain. That why he says 'he can kill anyone' and then he kills innocent people after that. Thats what I think makes it fun and unique, you get to play as the badguy and get away with it. Its rare but some time in movies the villain wins. Look up Golgo 13 its a long running series about Hitman for hire, but He really does kill anyone that in his contract.


I also agree that 47 shouldn't be giving the moral highground in the story, but in all the past Hitman game 47 has the moral highground. They do this to give the story a moral center and keep 47 at the level of antihero so He can still be considered as the goodguy. Notice that in bloodmoney all 47's target are generic badguys instead of having a variety interesting characters. The Agency were the goodguys and the franchise badguys. The agency use 47 to foil the franchise plot against the president. It would of been more interesting if that wheelchair guy had been the hero trying to shut down the agency's illegal operations. Instead they played it safe and made it about good and evil.

mcescher1
9th Feb 2014, 22:33
i feel like 47 is mysterious, calculated, professional, incredibly skilled, and powerful, but just like the rest of us has a few people or things he cares about and would do anything in his power for...

after all, if all you work for is money... what do you use the money for?? i imagine he likes the small things in life... hot tea, exotic birds (although he killed his one pet bird, only because he was in threat of being heard and killed - he didn't want to kill his bird but for his survival he didn't think twice), and maybe plans to retire on a private island somewhere - also has an affinity for rare weapons and gadgets

i just didn't understand what the writers were thinking with the whole 'Diana' hit... this person has been everything to him, and helped him survive on numerous occasions...

you would think he would choose to protect her over a few extra bucks from the agency

it wasn't cold... it was stupid

i guess there is a small chance she's still alive or that they will give us some sort of plot twist... i just hope they don't make it too ridiculous or unbelievable

mikom
10th Feb 2014, 15:51
Icedog: The plot in BM wasnt good vs evil. It was evil vs evil. The fact that we played as Hitman just made the Franchise subjectively more evil than us. And obviously it's easier to excuse his actions when they are done against a criminal, instead of an ordinary person someone just wanted dead. This is the safe approach which ultimately settled in the rolechange in H:A where 47 was more a righteous vigilante than a killer.

Story can be made better than this. Everything doesn't have to be cut and dry. We dont have to be the good guy fighting against evil to have us want to win. To make us want to win the opposition just needs to be a threat to us or bad according to us. This however takes more effort than just painting something out as black and white.


mcescher1: He obviously has a personality. He obviously like things and enjoys things. But these things may not be rooted in emotion though. Or at least not as much as an ordinary person. That's one thing that makes him interesting, and also why he can do this work as efficiently as he does.

I mean, even the coldest psychopath has hobbies and things he likes.

Ps. She's alive. http://hitman.wikia.com/wiki/Diana_Burnwood

HITMANfromHELL
10th Feb 2014, 16:00
Well, if you wanna get technical what about the humanity 47 portrayed in Blood Money when he had to kill his bird? There has been this sense of 47 being a blank slate who has been slowly acting like a human. I assume Absolution built off of that.

gkkiller
10th Feb 2014, 16:33
I would very much like to see a great villain for 47. Someone as cold, calculating, and ruthless as him, someone always one step ahead. A villain whose aim was to unveil the existence of 47 to the world ... now that would be someone interesting. It could potentially give 47 some great character development, since he'd be up against someone like him, but who was always plotting something dangerous.

mikom
10th Feb 2014, 16:34
HITMANfromHELL:
I dont think 47 had any emotional attachment to the bird at all. I think the main reason why he had it was to sense differences in the air. Like why the coal miners had canaries with them in the mines. "canaries (birds) that mining workers would carry down into the mine tunnels with them. If dangerous gases such as methane or carbon monoxide leaked into the mine, the gases would kill the canary before killing the miners, thus providing a warning to exit the tunnels immediately."

To think he had it for company is silly. Check the rest of his hideout. Everything else was work, so why would the canary be any different? Any comfort he found in the canary was accidental and just a biproduct. And for me the killing of the canary, instead of letting it free, really cemented to me that he didnt have that much emotional attachment to it.

With all this said, it doesnt mean he's a blank slate, or completely cold. But it does mean he's a WHOLE lot colder than we are. And his work depends on him being cold and unempathetic so for him to really grow as a person emotionally, he would have to leave his job. In fact, the more emotional progress he has, the less efficient he will be at his job. It's fun to wonder how much emotion he really has and to what end, but have no doubt. Compared to us he is cold.

gkkiller:
Isnt that pretty much what happened in BM? I would like to see the consequences of BM and what ever happened with the albino clones and the franchise.

HITMANfromHELL
10th Feb 2014, 20:02
Although, I am not saying you are wrong Mikom. I have interpreted Agent 47 differently. I see 47 as this elite killing machine as one who is slowly developing emotions. Nonetheless, I see the bird as a tool for his job. I may be reading into this too much but I believe as the only thing to keep him company, Agent 47 had some sort of attachment to it. In killing it,he lost his only friend so to speak.

In Absolution, you see 47 having more emotions. His anger gets the best of him at times. You see him get more impatient and careless. I understand that IO was trying to elaborate a bit more on a glimpse of his human characteristics. I for one prefer his Blood Money persona more.

mcescher1
10th Feb 2014, 21:00
HITMANfromHELL:
I dont think 47 had any emotional attachment to the bird at all. I think the main reason why he had it was to sense differences in the air. Like why the coal miners had canaries with them in the mines. "canaries (birds) that mining workers would carry down into the mine tunnels with them. If dangerous gases such as methane or carbon monoxide leaked into the mine, the gases would kill the canary before killing the miners, thus providing a warning to exit the tunnels immediately."

To think he had it for company is silly. Check the rest of his hideout. Everything else was work, so why would the canary be any different? Any comfort he found in the canary was accidental and just a biproduct. And for me the killing of the canary, instead of letting it free, really cemented to me that he didnt have that much emotional attachment to it.



Mikom , i have to disagree with you about the bird... he didn't 'need' it at all for his job... he doesn't work in a coal mine and isn't in danger of being killed by seeping gases :nut:

i agree with what HitfromHell said about him being a little emotionally attatched to the bird because it was like his only 'friend'...

he maybe would have set it free if he was leaving on regular terms.. but there was an intruder of whom could have been after 47 to kill him, and the bird was making noise, possibly giving away his position... 47 can't have that... so he made the move quickly and swiftly without pause - he didn't necessarily want to kill the bird because im sure it entertained him, and gave him company- without the trust issues and problems a human would give him, he didn't 'need' the bird one bit... so he kept it for a reason

Itsrob
10th Feb 2014, 21:07
I was disappointed in the way they portrayed 47 in Absolution. He was much better in the previous games - Didn't speak often, and when he did he was cold and to the point. They tried to make him into some emotional hero which I didn't like at all. Then again, almost all of the characters in Absolution were cheesy and un-hitman like.

mcescher1
10th Feb 2014, 21:13
I was disappointed in the way they portrayed 47 in Absolution. He was much better in the previous games - Didn't speak often, and when he did he was cold and to the point. They tried to make him into some emotional hero which I didn't like at all. Then again, almost all of the characters in Absolution were cheesy and un-hitman like.

i agree - i think they veered off of the path of who 47 'is' in Absolution

and it wasn't congruent to what we have seen in the past

i don't think too much damage was done to the point it can't be repaired - but i think the people working on the game and the 'personality' of 47 really need to lock down his persona and his attributes - and do it right, i will try and think of a comparable character and geettttt back tooo you :thumb:

mikom
10th Feb 2014, 21:35
We agree more than you guys may think. I'm not saying he didnt like the company of the bird. What I'm saying is that it was a biproduct of getting it. A unforseen consequence. He got it for protection. Because A: He's nothing if not prepared, so even if he didnt expect someone to poison him by seeping in gas, it's better to be safe than sorry. And B: Because I think poison gas is a big threat to him. It might even be the best way if you were to take him out.

He's the greatest assassin there is. You cant take him on head first, and if you do you want him to be at a severe disadvantage. Also, the hideout was at basement level. Old basements have cracks in them where you could let gas seep in, or you could set up a faux contruction site next to it, or on the ground floor. All with less suspicion than if you were trying to seep gas in on the fifth floor where other people live. I'm not saying that would work on him, but I'm saying that is their best bet, especially if he didnt have the bird.

In the same way a sniper would be a big threat if he had a hideout on a high floor, poison is a big threat for a underground hideout. Think about it. You actually think he went out to a petstore just because he was feeling lonely? No, he got it for a reason. As a precaution. He probably started to get used to it, maybe even like it. But as soon as it jeopardised him, he killed it. And like I've written futher up. I think if he didnt have this job, and he continued having the bird, he would develop more emotion. But the job is hindering that development. By killing the bird, he not only killed a friend, or at least as close to one he could have at that moment, he also regressed a little bit.

So I agree, this is a story about a cold killer slowly but surely developing emotions, sometimes regressing back, but then growing again. But when he has developed enough emotion as a normal person, the game is OVER. That's the inevitable end to Hitman.

Either he gets enough emotion and empathy that he cannot do his job, and someone will most likely kill him. Or he grows enough emotion that he quits, again, to continue with his emotional development. But then the whole deal with The Agency comes in, like I've written before. Would they ever really let him go? Or would they do something to force him back, or if he's to far gone, kill him?

These are the interesting questions. He has the capacity for emotions. He is a human being. Yet, growing up in a asylum and killing for a living, he is held in an arrested development.

And I for one, want a few more games until he has reached his end.

HITMANfromHELL
10th Feb 2014, 23:43
Who else suspected Victoria in Absolution was some how Agent 47's kid? Those moves? Daaayyyuuummm. Imagine the impact on 47's character if he knew of his hypothetical child?

S3R6i0
11th Feb 2014, 17:04
Who else suspected Victoria in Absolution was some how Agent 47's kid? Those moves? Daaayyyuuummm. Imagine the impact on 47's character if he knew of his hypothetical child?

This guy wants to keep the bar code. ;D

edisleado
15th Feb 2014, 05:00
I suppose I have a different interpretation of 47.

First and foremost, 47 was bred by Ort-Meyer to be the ultimate assassin, and that he is. Not only that, but 47 is regarded as the perfect clone, not only in terms of his superiority in pain tolerance, strength, and other physical traits, but also because he can think for himself.

While 47 has a free and open mind that allows him to engage his targets in creative ways, he is also burdened by something else very human - emotions. In a way, 47 could be perhaps be considered as a failure due to this. After all, emotions are something of which might be unwelcome company in the business of killing - a 'feature' that Ort-Meyer had perhaps not intended to implement in his creation.

But in my mind, I'd like to believe that because 47 can think, and namely, feel, like a real human being is actually what enables him to overcome the seemingly impossible obstacles he encounters.

For instance, the 48 series clones, who are undyingly loyal to Ort-Meyer, prove to be far inferior to 47 despite, in actuality, being genetically superior.

I appreciated seeing the more caring and personal side of 47 in Silent Assassin, and even Contracts gave us a good look at what's going on in 47's head. I wish Absolution had made a more serious attempt at expanding 47's persona, but his motivations were presented in a very shallow and un-engaging way and were further dragged down by the convoluted and incomplete overall story.

With the upcoming Hitman 6, it looks like we're going back to completing traditional contracts - which I think we can all appreciate - but likely it won't give us much of an opportunity to learn more about 47.

S3R6i0
22nd Feb 2014, 17:59
...47 is regarded as the perfect clone, not only in terms of his superiority in pain tolerance, strength, and other physical traits, but also because he can think for himself.

I think 47 was regarded as the perfect clone because he survived as long as he did, while the other clones died within months of natural causes.

AdrianShephard
22nd Feb 2014, 19:31
I think 47 was regarded as the perfect clone because he survived as long as he did, while the other clones died within months of natural causes.

Yes. He also isn't albino, which was a problem for those who tried to re-create Ort-Meyer's research. Isn't that the reason why they wanted his bone-marrow?

CarolG
3rd Mar 2014, 17:28
Welp, in Hitman 2 Silent Assassin, 47 shows up his sentimental side when confess to father Vittorio about his sins (he seems regretful somehow), Also he just came back to the agency because Vittorio was kidnapped and he needed money to save him :rolleyes:

S3R6i0
3rd Mar 2014, 23:54
Yeah. I like the way people assert that 47 is a cold, callous, calculated sociopath who can't be tracked or snuck up upon, yet they predict how 47 will react in every situation. I actually didn't have a problem with 47 rescuing Victoria. After all, he went all warm and soft (not to mention extremely naive and gullible) during Silent Assassin. Yes, after saving the priest he learned a lesson about life but that doesn't mean he lost his humanity. I think Absolution, in general, was bad, and the Victoria angle was a stretch to accommodate the direction of the story, but I don't think 47 necessarily has to be a machine devoid of an emotional blueprint. After all, if he 47 was an assassin immune to failure or sentimental influence what story would there be to tell? Part of what makes a story is conflict, or adversity.

123
13th Mar 2014, 00:53
This is a cool topic and all but Hitman is a video game not a movie. I think that the story is very vague and cryptic on purpose because 47 is a silent protagonist. Hes a silent protagonist not in the traditional sense but in the sense that hes stays mysterious. You are agent 47 a international hit man for hire, a straight up cold blooded murderer. On the back of the cd case it doesn't say vigilante justice it says murder and they should be expected to stand by that and not make him a action hero.

The story slaves for the game not the other way around. You tell the story about the clients of 47 and the people Hes about to kill. One thing absolution did well was making the npc's feel human. A man is talking to somebody on the phone, a man and woman are arguing about something. All kinds of stuff going on but 47 is supposed to be indifferent because thats his character. There no need for emotional 47, emotional 47 betrays everybody he needs to be forgotten.

GEXL47
19th Mar 2014, 22:49
You need to develop your protagonist if you want a good story. I don't like the idea of a story where the protagonist begins and ends as a paid tool. If the point of 47 continuing is that he enjoys his work, then maybe we can see a little more of where he is going with this side of his character.
Even better, if you want to erase the plot of Hitman: Absolution, then we can have another story where 47 gains independence from the ICA, maybe building up to it this time, instead of just having him fly off on a whim. This could make for some cool ideas for enemies and levels, maybe even some twists on equipment and planning phases. I hope I/O has some good writers for this one.

MickyNozawa
12th May 2014, 17:59
Ignoring the plot of Absolution would be the best option, it was universally panned and IO would do well to simply pretend it never happened.

S3R6i0
12th May 2014, 19:49
Yeah, I think a pre-Absolution plot involving the ICA with Diana voiced by Vivienne McKee, essentially Blood Money or Contracts with next-gen graphics, would be a better direction to go.

Arvin47
5th Nov 2014, 09:59
Yes, good points.

47 is the definition of an anti-hero. DEFINITELY not a hero. He only works for money. No promises, no rating system points, no nothing.
he is not only working for money...he is fighting for justice...he don't kill nice people and this shows that he is not only killing for money.he kill bad people.
money is one of things that he want from killing.his other aiming is justice

Master47
5th Nov 2014, 10:11
he is not only working for money...he is fighting for justice...he don't kill nice people and this shows that he is not only killing for money.he kill bad people.
money is one of things that he want from killing.his other aiming is justice

You couldn't be more wrong. Perhaps he has gone soft in Absolution, but that game shouldn't even be regarded canon. 47 is not to be perceived as a hero fighting for justice - that would be to completely fail to recognize all previous games.

Edit: Also, Arvin, I have a feeling you're not that old and kind of "afraid" of mature themes that differs from the arch-type "good guy saving the world" analogy. Hitman games are messy in terms of moral, ethics etc. Things aren't black and white / good and evil. 47 definitely aint a pleasant man, and shouldn't be by no means.

Arvin47
6th Nov 2014, 08:18
I think 47 is a goodguy...not a human but a goodguy between clones.about that bird he don't wanted to kill the bird.but a bird is worthy than 47?!no,a bird can't get 47 killed.he killed but don't wanted to do that but he had to...

Arvin47
6th Nov 2014, 08:32
You couldn't be more wrong. Perhaps he has gone soft in Absolution, but that game shouldn't even be regarded canon. 47 is not to be perceived as a hero fighting for justice - that would be to completely fail to recognize all previous games.

Edit: Also, Arvin, I have a feeling you're not that old and kind of "afraid" of mature themes that differs from the arch-type "good guy saving the world" analogy. Hitman games are messy in terms of moral, ethics etc. Things aren't black and white / good and evil. 47 definitely aint a pleasant man, and shouldn't be by no means.
I'm not talking about that (excuse me) damn absolution.i'm talking about past titles...even in them 47 was killing bad guys...if his aim was only money he didn't see any diffrence between badguys and good guys and killed both...you think why 47 killed ortmeier?!because he maked persons that who their work is just killing...it means justice.he used killing against ortmeier himself.why do you think in start of silent assassin he was working in church.he was about to leave killing and he was upset from being a killer but some badguys stealed father and 47 got to killing again for killing the bad guys that he was about leaving killing means he have so weak emotion but as weak as you can say he is emotionless
Personal note:mr master 47 i think you have a wrong explantion about 47 in your mind

Arvin47
6th Nov 2014, 08:36
I think 47 is a goodguy...not a human but a goodguy between clones.about that bird he don't wanted to kill the bird.but a bird is worthy than 47?!no,a bird can't get 47 killed.he killed but don't wanted to do that bur he had to...

Master47
6th Nov 2014, 09:27
He is "raised" to kill, purposefully being stripped of emotions. That he develops certain emotional attachments along the way and imposes a sense of self-justice upon people who he believes has wronged him, does not make him an all good guy fighting in the name of justice. 47 himself is in no position to decide between right and wrong. His actions are determined based on an all egocentric perspective - which makes him an anti-hero rather than the hero figure you wanna label him as. Trust me 47 is not a nice guy. If anything he's neutral and wouldn't hesitate to kill his best friend if he'd wronged him. Not that he's capable of making friends, but you get the picture. He's an antisocial, paranoid and lonely man, who looks out for himself and does what has to be done - Not in the name of justice, but in the name of survival, revenge, anger etc...

IamRahx
6th Nov 2014, 11:25
+1 Master47.
Arvin, I think the problem is most likely since you played absolution first. In that game you get a sense that he's fighting for justice. But 47 is deffinately NOT some sort of hero. He's the best hitman out there. The 'good' guys would be the agency. They hire 47 to kill some bad people. But do you now why? Because they're being paid to do it. Hitman isn't about this world peace organization, they get hired to kill people and they carry out that mission. The first mission in blood money should explain to you alot about 47.
47 is a clone who was created (not really raised, he was only tested upon awakening) to be the perfect clone/hitman. He makes his own justice and like he said even in the beginning of absolution: "Afterall, this is what he does..."

kewlak
6th Nov 2014, 11:58
At the end of Blood Money he snapped canary neck, right after Diana entered to his hideout. The same canary he cared for within whole game... so noooo... he's not good guy :scratch:
He can bind himself to someone, but if it's case of business, he can break this connection with no regret. Diana was an exception (Absolution spoiler ahead), but i think he hadn't killed her only because he didn't trust Travis.

Master47
6th Nov 2014, 12:20
47 is indeed a sociopath/psycopath who's ruthlessly efficient at killing. A higher developed sense of justice would be a huge design flaw on Ort-Meyer's part. What we might consider shortcomings such as; antisocial personality disorder and paranoia, are huge advantages in 47's line of work. No need for relationships and so forth - no weak points. If you think of it, 47's motivations are rather primal - which can probably be attributed to his incomplete and still infant morality.

Of course there will be exceptions here and there in regards to his pastor friend, but they aren't the norm. He is still human after all, a clone yes, but still human. Humans learn and so does 47. He is however "socially handicapped" in the sense of empathy, and that makes him a great killer.

Arvin47
6th Nov 2014, 14:05
+1 Master47.
Arvin, I think the problem is most likely since you played absolution first. In that game you get a sense that he's fighting for justice. But 47 is deffinately NOT some sort of hero. He's the best hitman out there. The 'good' guys would be the agency. They hire 47 to kill some bad people. But do you now why? Because they're being paid to do it. Hitman isn't about this world peace organization, they get hired to kill people and they carry out that mission. The first mission in blood money should explain to you alot about 47.
47 is a clone who was created (not really raised, he was only tested upon awakening) to be the perfect clone/hitman. He makes his own justice and like he said even in the beginning of absolution: "Afterall, this is what he does..."
maybe my deciding on 47 like this is for playing absolution but...he is not a bad guy at all.if you read damnation book somewhere of book he is not working for agency and he is going to do a job with a little money and he says:it's a job and it's money.not as much as i made with the agency but it was enough.I REALLY DIDN'T CARE ABOUT MONEY.
as you read his aim is not just money.and you said the good people are agency because they hire 47 to kill bad guys.I disagree because they don't hire 47...they offer contract and let 47 choice to kill who maybe in their list there is good people for killing but 47 don't choose them and always kill bads.
Again im not talking about absolution.

IamRahx
6th Nov 2014, 14:48
You've impressd me arvin. Not many people (including myself) have read the novels. I actually do have them. Bought them after Absolution came out. Just never got around reading. So you have managed to silence me for now.
+1 for arvin.

-But still calling 47 a good guy for justice is a bit much imo.

Arvin47
6th Nov 2014, 15:09
You've impressd me arvin. Not many people (including myself) have read the novels. I actually do have them. Bought them after Absolution came out. Just never got around reading. So you have managed to silence me for now.
+1 for arvin.

-But still calling 47 a good guy for justice is a bit much imo.
I read that book besides English in not my mother tongue and couldn't understand all the book.I'm waiting for translating it to my language but unfortunately they don't translate it.I offer you to read it's very good book and Explain to you 47 more...it explain some of his missions from his own mind and Explain the whole of story between blood money and absolution.
again 47 is killing bad guys he is trying to kill bad guys as he can but we can't say it's his only motivation for killing.money is one of his motivations and another is existing instinct of killing in him.instinct of killing that dr.ortmeier made for him put him on this way.

IamRahx
6th Nov 2014, 15:20
what is you language then

Arvin47
6th Nov 2014, 15:28
I prefer to don't say that because it leaks my nationality and maybe make political discussions in thread.

IamRahx
6th Nov 2014, 15:37
?...ok

Master47
7th Nov 2014, 07:59
If you make a living off of killing people, good or bad, you can't really slap a good guy label on your forehead. Also any innocent witnesses who get in the way of his goal are eliminated. Again his reasoning for killing isn't based upon justice. This really shouldn't be considered news to anyone.

Edit: I guess I can only speak for myself when I say I'd hate to see Mr.47 turn into some righteous guy fighting in the name of good and justice. That would be so generic, boring and quite frankly lame. I love that he's not the perfect hero protecting the innocent. I love that in fact he couldn't care less about the innocent as long as they stay out of his way. Don't let his apathy fool you into believing he's caring. You have to look objectively at 47's lifestyle as a whole. You can't just nit pick little portions and quotations and try to apply them as his entire persona. That would be wrong and misrepresentative of the "truth" about 47.

kewlak
7th Nov 2014, 09:59
Absolution could indeed messed someone's opinion about 47 (as superhero protecting someone). Now players who played only Absolution think 47 protects Victoria for being just. Actually he protects her only because she's like him.

I hope H6 will change such 47's image.

Arvin47
7th Nov 2014, 12:40
Absolution could indeed messed someone's opinion about 47 (as superhero protecting someone). Now players who played only Absolution think 47 protects Victoria for being just. Actually he protects her only because she's like him.

I hope H6 will change such 47's image.
I said 10 times ago..............I played all hitman series.and i say for 11th time i played all hitman series and i'm not talking about absolution forget absolution i'm talking about past titles.now if you read damnation you understand he is a good guy!!!

Master47
7th Nov 2014, 13:20
We would have to disagree with you. You do realize the novels have most likely been commissioned, and not written, by the original creators of the series. They cannot really be used in arguments pertaining to the games, unless they were to be considered canon and future games were to follow said events in the books. At most they are IP tie-ins and follow completely different artistic patterns, that probably would fail miserably were they to be converted to future Hitman games. I have no interest in discussing 47's portrayal based on tie-in novels.

Arvin47
7th Nov 2014, 13:31
I don't know.........but he is good or bad..............let 1O to decide.........but all i have to say and i scare from making it.......is 47 being a se*y man......please don't do that............and if you want to make 47 like old times...........make him a bad guy....no problem.......no difference...........but.....he should remain emotionless like old times too not like in absolution or worst.............. it's my final word.he should remain emotionless..................emotionless..................this make him a big character.

Master47
7th Nov 2014, 13:39
He definitely is no "good guy", he isn't an evil character either (also no one has claimed he was). He has this indifference quality over him - which is what suits his profession and personality so beautifully. He doesn't seem to have a greater purpose or long term goal. He follows somewhat primitive guidelines:

- Killing for a living... sure, it puts food on the table and as long as the people I kill are scumbags anyway... who cares. -

Do you see were I'm going with this?

Arvin47
7th Nov 2014, 14:54
He definitely is no "good guy", he isn't an evil character either (also no one has claimed he was). He has this indifference quality over him - which is what suits his profession and personality so beautifully. He doesn't seem to have a greater purpose or long term goal. He follows somewhat primitive guidelines:

- Killing for a living... sure, it puts food on the table and as long as the people I kill are scumbags anyway... who cares. -

Do you see were I'm going with this?
Ok.let me explain it in other words
he don't care who is dying and he don't see any difference between good and bad.but his enemies are completely on evil side and his enemies are worse than 47...If 47 is worse his enemies are worst.You made me to agree.But I don't care he's bad or good.....all I care about is that he should remain emotionless.

IamRahx
7th Nov 2014, 15:29
Ok guys calm down. I guess the point is clear. Arvin, with your last couple of comments you are agreeing that he is pretty emotionless. And in turn you are agreeing that he isn't some kind of fighter for justice (which is why its still being debated here).
In your own words, 47 is neither good nor evil. He does what he has to do. Not for justice, but simply because its what he does.

-I'm almost finished with the first novel now (Enemy within). Its a surprising good read. If you haven't read it yet I recommend it.

Arvin47
7th Nov 2014, 15:56
Ok guys calm down. I guess the point is clear. Arvin, with your last couple of comments you are agreeing that he is pretty emotionless. And in turn you are agreeing that he isn't some kind of fighter for justice (which is why its still being debated here).
In your own words, 47 is neither good nor evil. He does what he has to do. Not for justice, but simply because its what he does.

-I'm almost finished with the first novel now (Enemy within). Its a surprising good read. If you haven't read it yet I recommend it.
finally some one understanding what i'm saying
and thanks for recommand that novel.But I usually snoop around anything that matters to hitman.

kewlak
7th Nov 2014, 16:39
I said 10 times ago..............I played all hitman series.and i say for 11th time i played all hitman series and i'm not talking about absolution forget absolution i'm talking about past titles.now if you read damnation you understand he is a good guy!!!

I've read whole Damnation. I suppose you talking about (novel spoiler ahead) "girlfriend" he had there, who fell in love with 47, but he merely liked her, and wanted to use her to get close to the target. I would say he isn't able to feel something higher than "likeness", what doesn't make him a "good guy".
You apparently forget he kills for money, what rather isn't ethical. I think any other "higher" reason like deliver justice would make him more like fanatic, than calculating strategist.

EDIT:
But i admit 47 isn't so evil, and there are more evil fictitious murderers. Even some of his targets are more evil, what isn't flaw to me.

Arvin47
7th Nov 2014, 19:28
I've read whole Damnation. I suppose you talking about (novel spoiler ahead) "girlfriend" he had there, who fell in love with 47, but he merely liked her, and wanted to use her to get close to the target. I would say he isn't able to feel something higher than "likeness", what doesn't make him a "good guy".
You apparently forget he kills for money, what rather isn't ethical. I think any other "higher" reason like deliver justice would make him more like fanatic, than calculating strategist.

EDIT:
But i admit 47 isn't so evil, and there are more evil fictitious murderers. Even some of his targets are more evil, what isn't flaw to me.
I agree.

MasterTaffer
8th Nov 2014, 02:22
I think the themes of 47’s humanity are important for the character. He wasn’t born the same as us, nor was he raised in an environment where emotion was encouraged. He was raised in a brutal environment where attachments and emotion were violently frowned upon. His pet rabbit was taken from him because it stirred human emotion in him. He clearly has emotion. He’s displayed affection, remorse, anger, etcetera in the game series prior to Absolution, so it’s not exactly shocking that encountering someone who he can relate to on such a high level would summon up empathy like Victoria did.

The differences he has from a normal person are why he’s so detached from everyone else. He doesn’t have a mother, and the closest thing he had to a father only saw him as a tool to remove problems. He’s capable of having friends like Vittorio and Diana, though they are very distant or professional relationships. He’s capable of caring for a pet, but if said pet becomes a liability he will eliminate them.

47 has emotion, he just doesn’t know how to react to said emotions. This does not mean he’s not cold, calculating, and extremely deadly, but it’s a very important part of his character and is what makes him interesting. If he’s simply a murder machine then there’s no distinction between him and the Mr. 48 line of clones, who didn’t have emotion or free will.

As for the morality of what he does, that depends on your personal ethics. He clearly has an idea of what he views as right and wrong, but it's not what ultimately guides him as a character. He's a consummate professional who's devoted to his craft, and as such he cares more about his professional ethics than broader morality. After all, his craft is one that most people would find morally repugnant.

Arvin47
9th Nov 2014, 12:15
I think the themes of 47’s humanity are important for the character. He wasn’t born the same as us, nor was he raised in an environment where emotion was encouraged. He was raised in a brutal environment where attachments and emotion were violently frowned upon. His pet rabbit was taken from him because it stirred human emotion in him. He clearly has emotion. He’s displayed affection, remorse, anger, etcetera in the game series prior to Absolution, so it’s not exactly shocking that encountering someone who he can relate to on such a high level would summon up empathy like Victoria did.

The differences he has from a normal person are why he’s so detached from everyone else. He doesn’t have a mother, and the closest thing he had to a father only saw him as a tool to remove problems. He’s capable of having friends like Vittorio and Diana, though they are very distant or professional relationships. He’s capable of caring for a pet, but if said pet becomes a liability he will eliminate them.

47 has emotion, he just doesn’t know how to react to said emotions. This does not mean he’s not cold, calculating, and extremely deadly, but it’s a very important part of his character and is what makes him interesting. If he’s simply a murder machine then there’s no distinction between him and the Mr. 48 line of clones, who didn’t have emotion or free will.

As for the morality of what he does, that depends on your personal ethics. He clearly has an idea of what he views as right and wrong, but it's not what ultimately guides him as a character. He's a consummate professional who's devoted to his craft, and as such he cares more about his professional ethics than broader morality. After all, his craft is one that most people would find morally repugnant.
yeah he have some emotions but he have not some other emotions.for example anger is what a killer need or being capable to being friend with some guys who are helping him.....but what i say is don't bring useless and worthless emotions to 47's personality.for example love or se*uality is not emotions that a killer needs.one of that things that is worthy for us in his character is that 47 don't have se*uality.for example some of women in a dance with devil level say to him:hey there s*xy.and he don't care and keep walking to kill his target...and it make him cold and interesting.

123
17th Dec 2014, 22:30
The only reason 47 only kill bad guys is because of the writers. The writers are scared to have 47 kill nice people because they think that the audience will not play it. Because of these bad writing decisions 47 never seems like a Hitman for hire but rather a pawn for the agency.

AdrianShephard
27th Dec 2014, 00:32
The writers are scared to have 47 kill nice people because they think that the audience will not play it.

No, not necessarily. It could be that because 47 is so expensive, his clients must be rich and likewise want to protect their assets from powerful people. There are many examples of "normal" people (i.e. not villains in the traditional sense) 47 has killed -- especially in Blood Money.

I do think there is some truth in what you write though. Personally, I find it much more satisfying when I eliminate dark characters like in Beldingford Manor and Meat King than when I go for an otherwise neutral target (like in A New Life or You Better Watch Out). There's something about seeing first hand the crimes committed by my targets...it definitely elicits a feeling that I must deliver justice.

Zetera
7th Jan 2015, 20:24
I think Enemy Within does need to be considered canon (if you're going to consider Absolution as canon) as it was stated that the novel was a prequel to Absolution.

Overall, I've really enjoyed reading this thread as I've questioned 47's character and what makes him tick many times. Overall, I agree that he is cold and calculated, and he is definitely impaired when it comes to empathy and human emotion. However, as so many of you have noted, he is a human, and humans learn and grow. To a large extent, the nature of his work has hindered any emotional development he may have been able to make. Yet, it is his capacity for emotion that makes him dangerous and unpredictable. The 48 series were created so that they would not have this capacity, and they would have no free will, making them completely and unquestionably loyal to Ort-Meyer. However, this proved to be their downfall. 47 can think for himself, and this does cause him to question.

He questions his own choices sometimes. We even see him experience regret in SA. However, he chooses to go back to the Agency as he realises he can never really find peace anywhere else. Perhaps he recognises that he is flawed, and decides that there's no point trying to be someone he's not. As he says: "Always knew I didn't belong in this world. I wasn't made for this." However, the events of SA do change him. He resolves to "choose the truth I like" and "seek justice for myself" which suggests to me that he is searching for some morality. NOT that he is a justice fighter or anything naff like that, but his questioning nature and search for truth keeps him at the anti-hero level. Without that, he would just be an evil killer. He's not the villain and he's not the hero – it's that ambiguity that keeps him interesting. The fact that he's even unsure of who he is himself furthers that ambiguity. I do love that.

In terms of his caring side - he is NOT emotional, but he does experience emotion. Certainly to a lesser degree than other people, but that can be accounted for in his upbringing. However, the novels (are we considering ALL of these to be canon?? Tricky...) show that Ort-Meyer first became concerned about 47 when he saw him caring for a pet rabbit. Even as a child, 47 showed a nurturing side that was not supposed to be present. We also see him express anger as a child, when he kills a fellow clone who was bullying him. I think this ties into his "relationship" with Diana - I think she cares for him a lot more than he does for her, most likely because he does not yet possess the capacity to do so. In BM, when she tells him that she thinks she won't last much longer before being killed, he simply replies "I'm sorry to hear that," before going on to ask about his fee directly afterwards. However, he does show appreciation for her, and his discomfort at having her as a target in Absolution and his decision to let her live fits with his character for me. He notes clearly in Absolution that he and Diana "had trust" and in SA, when he says: "But I'll never forget – those who betrayed me, and those who never failed my trust," she is one of the only people I can think he means.

Similarly with the bird in BM - I think a previous poster was probably right when they suggested that he bought the bird as a precaution against gases - I really don't see him going to a pet store to pick out a pet for himself. However, I do agree that he clearly developed a relationship with the bird and we see him being quite playful with it - before killing it when his position is compromised.

Even though I really hated the Absolution story (soooo weak) I did understand his protection of Victoria (even though the scene with him carrying her out of the orphanage was painfully out of character). He killed Ort-Meyer partly because of what Ort-Meyer had done to him. I don't think he wanted that to ever happen again. Meeting Victoria brought back plenty of asylum memories for him, and it brought up some anger. Protecting her and shutting down the cloning technology makes sense to me for his character. Of course, there were PLENTY of other problems with that whole storyline, but I don't think Absolution was completely out of character for 47. Based on previous games, the novels and the situation he was in, I think he reacted as we might have expected him to.

For his character progression, I'd like to see him continue to question. This does not mean that he needs to be moral and good, because honestly, that would be so boring and predictable and like countless other games. But in each game so far, he does retain a sense of the moral high ground, and he does grow and develop as a person. With the recent double cross by Diana and Travis' betrayal of him, it gives him new facets of humanity to consider, just like in SA. I hope we see him learn and adapt from that. He's proven himself to be nothing if not adaptable.

Yikes - sorry for the essay. If anyone reads it.

BenSmy96
15th Jan 2015, 13:42
The only reason 47 only kill bad guys is because of the writers. The writers are scared to have 47 kill nice people because they think that the audience will not play it. Because of these bad writing decisions 47 never seems like a Hitman for hire but rather a pawn for the agency.

I see what you're saying but 47 doesn't murder for his own satisfaction (completely) and it is more about displaying precision and perfoming the hits efficiently, he sees it as an art. The killing of civilians will in no way benefit him because they're deaths will create questions and further interest in the scenario which will eventually get too messy. In terms of killing nice people I think one needs to think, if someone was nice, why would they be marked for assassination? If the client was paying for the hit because of a personal vendetta rather than the target being evil, I'm sure 47 would have no issue carrying out the hit.

Arvin47
27th Jan 2015, 06:28
This is a cool topic and all but Hitman is a video game not a movie.
That's what hitman done well,the story is like a movie.Obviously we don't want to see a game with a childish story because developers wanted to put more energy on gameplay.I really loved the plot of all hitman games,except Codename 47,(because it's plot is just as what you want,short and weak) and Absolution (because they made 47 as a hero,and emotional,and the only thing that developers focused on,was story which is a mistake as well)
The games aren't a Gameplay VS Story battle,all of the aspects of a game should help each other to make a nice game.I'm against the argue that story should be weaker for the sake of Gameplay.because a nice story can't harm the gameplay,it just can help it.

Now about 47 character:
Agent 47 is a highly trained Assassin,nothing can stop him,he's calculated,strong,smart and fast.he can handle any situation calmly.he's very polite and he rarely speaks,he's most of the time alone,thinking about his past and future,he have no house,he usually stays at hotel at night,in the missions,he just get the job done and get out of area when his target is lying in a body container and police officers are talking in front of it,and they have no idea that someone is killed and his body is there!!!he can do both,gun battle,close combat,but to leave no traces,he prefers to kill only his target.he's a contract killer who works for money.and he have some other unknown motivations for it,but obviously,it's not saving a girl!!!he's not emotional.

123
7th May 2015, 20:38
Video games can do things that movies can't so they needn't try to make hitman like a movie. The kind of missions 47 does shows his objectivity, showing that he'll kill anyone. i want to see what his clients at least 90% of the time. The kind of people he'll work for also shows 47's character. The back ground stories in absolution were pretty good. There were like 100 different subplots going on in every mission. Thats one of the few thing that they should keep from absolution. All this stuff is happening around him tragedy comedy and yet 47 remains unphased and indifferent.