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View Full Version : Realistic ballistics for Sniping - bullet drop / bullet travel / wind effects



DeadlyShadow47
26th Jan 2014, 13:38
IO-Interactive SHOULD ADD:

Realistic ballistics for Sniping - A Bullet travel time from Sniper Challenge (Blood Money also had it) should return with the addition of wind and bullet drop factors. Just imagine how awesome and challenging it would work for huge levels with far distances. Knowing that Hitman 6 will have biggest open ended levels we have ever seen - it would make sniping a lot more interesting and rewarding. Imagine how awesome Kirov Park Meeting would be with realistic ballistics - 47 getting on the top of radio tower, far away from the targets, adjusting his scope for the right distance, fallowing wind direction and then finally taking a shot.

It could be optional for people who don't want challenge, but it would be a great addition to those who loves sniping in Hitman games.

How it could work for everyone, depending on the difficulty settings.

Easy/Normal - No bullet travel / No bullet drop.
Hard/Expert - Bullet travel / Bullet drop
Purist - Bullet travel / Bullet drop / Wind effect

Sniping is one of my favourite methods to use in Hitman games, it needs time, preparation and good timing - realistic ballistics would expand it and make it more enjoyable.

BL47E
26th Jan 2014, 14:22
YE man totally agree... ive recently played a demo of Sniper Ghost Warrior... enjoyed wat i played, basically... my favorite ways of assassination would either up close'n'personal with a trusty fiber wire, or good ol'long range shot... they never knew what hit em...


Definately more sniping opportunities, like, Fields/Hills, Cities/Skyscrapers, Forest/Trees.. why not, who said Hitman can't climb???

Lewisnic1
26th Jan 2014, 14:27
Totally agree DeadlyShadow, would be great move if this was to happen as I love a good bit of sniping in Hitman Games.

Baloota
27th Jan 2014, 07:57
Agree

ICASilentAssassin
28th Jan 2014, 00:03
Yes I totally agree with you. I would love to see this in the next Hitman game especially since I have always played on the highest difficulty throughout the series. Btw I loved your sniper challenge run. :cool:

BL47E
28th Jan 2014, 00:43
i see a competition startin...

Nate021388
28th Jan 2014, 03:18
IO-Interactive SHOULD ADD:

Realistic ballistics for Sniping - A Bullet travel time from Sniper Challenge (Blood Money also had it) should return with the addition of wind and bullet drop factors. Just imagine how awesome and challenging it would work for huge levels with far distances. Knowing that Hitman 6 will have biggest open ended levels we have ever seen - it would make sniping a lot more interesting and rewarding. Imagine how awesome Kirov Park Meeting would be with realistic ballistics - 47 getting on the top of radio tower, far away from the targets, adjusting his scope for the right distance, fallowing wind direction and then finally taking a shot.

It could be optional for people who don't want challenge, but it would be a great addition to those who loves sniping in Hitman games.

How it could work for everyone, depending on the difficulty settings.

Easy/Normal - No bullet travel / No bullet drop.
Hard/Expert - Bullet travel / Bullet drop
Purist - Bullet travel / Bullet drop / Wind effect

Sniping is one of my favourite methods to use in Hitman games, it needs time, preparation and good timing - realistic ballistics would expand it and make it more enjoyable.

I agree but I think it would also be cool if the camera fallowed the bullet

DeadlyShadow47
29th Jan 2014, 14:35
I agree but I think it would also be cool if the camera fallowed the bullet

Well that would be super cool, but in my opinion realistic ballistics are priority :)

Nate021388
29th Jan 2014, 22:50
Well that would be super cool, but in my opinion realistic ballistics are priority :)

who said it cant have both :)

AGENT 58
30th Jan 2014, 19:21
Good ideas Deadly Shadow.
It would also be good if you could crouch or lay on the ground while shooting because I don‘t think it‘s easy to hold sniper (remember how Hitman 2 had really hard sniper mechanics?)
Also suitcase should return...

mikom
31st Jan 2014, 09:52
I would like to see sniping a viable option in most if not all maps. With the promise of bigger levels in the next Hitman I hope they are as big as the cities the hits are in. Or at least a good chunk of the city. That way you could break into an apartment in a nearby skyscraper and snipe from there.

DeadlyShadow47
1st Feb 2014, 08:46
With the promise of bigger levels in the next Hitman I hope they are as big as the cities the hits are in. Or at least a good chunk of the city.
No it won't be big as cities or chunks of it... This is not a game with the budged of GTA and it's not a true open world game. Hitman never was like that and hopefully will never be. It's a Sandbox type game with the lots of options to solve the puzzle.

Anyhow - I hope that sniping method will be possible for every level.

mikom
1st Feb 2014, 08:53
Im not saying it should be a sandbox game. Also when I say good chunks of a city Im meaning more in comparison with older hitman games. Having a whole city, even a small city, may be too much of a dream. But a part of a block for example. Maybe something like A new life but set in the innercity with one or two tall buildings. I do also agree the fun in the Hitman games should come from the multitude of ways you can take someone out, not the size of the map.

gkkiller
1st Feb 2014, 16:45
I think each level should have sniping as a viable option. In fact, we could probably have a level with enemy snipers trying to take out your target, so that you had to either kill them or the target before they took the shot.

I think bullet drop should definitely be included. Maybe we could also have a less detailed crosshair on higher difficulties, so that you'd have to be more skilled at taking the shot.

mikom
1st Feb 2014, 16:59
I think the crosshair should be detailed and clearly visible. To make it harder you could put in windresistance instead.

BridgetFisher
3rd Feb 2014, 18:40
This seems so complicated like wind and all that it crosses the line of not being fun. id say things that are not fun should not be in the game if its so over complicated. I think for a challenge the focus should be on the gameplay of completing a mission not using the basic tools given to the player.

DeadlyShadow47
5th Feb 2014, 10:58
This seems so complicated like wind and all that it crosses the line of not being fun. id say things that are not fun should not be in the game if its so over complicated. I think for a challenge the focus should be on the gameplay of completing a mission not using the basic tools given to the player.

"This seems so complicated like wind and all that it crosses the line of not being fun." - That's your words, you understand fun different than I. I see fun when it's challenging and when award for that is great. That's why I explained the difficulty settings - Higher difficulties require more skill and will be more challenging, if you like it easy - choose Easy/Normal dif. Problem solved.

"I think for a challenge the focus should be on the gameplay of completing a mission not using the basic tools given to the player." - Basic tools? Sniping was was one of the key methods since Hitman 1.

mikom
5th Feb 2014, 12:59
As long as the options are there for easier difficulty for people who want it I see no downside with this idea.

mcescher1
5th Feb 2014, 18:09
i feel like adding too much difficulty to sniping will strip the fun out of it...

i like seeing my bullet go where i want it to... this isn't deer hunter

gkkiller
6th Feb 2014, 11:21
I think bullet drop should be included on all difficulties, while bullet travel should be reserved for the 'Hard' difficulty and wind for the highest Purist/Professional difficulty. They could include an option to see exactly where your bullet will land on lower difficulties, like a small red dot on the target.

DeadlyShadow47
7th Feb 2014, 08:51
i feel like adding too much difficulty to sniping will strip the fun out of it...

i like seeing my bullet go where i want it to... this isn't deer hunter


How it could work for everyone, depending on the difficulty settings.

Easy/Normal - No bullet travel / No bullet drop.
Hard/Expert - Bullet travel / Bullet drop
Purist - Bullet travel / Bullet drop / Wind effect
Next time try reading the written info.

mcescher1
7th Feb 2014, 21:04
i guess i could deal with something like that... i don't think it would be easy to program.. but idk im not one so....

also there would need to be an expanded tutorial on distance shooting where you could practice your skill and really gain an understanding of how the system works

i do feel like it still might take away from the fun tho... even when on expert/purist... maybe not i guess i would have to really try it hands on before i made a decision

gkkiller
8th Feb 2014, 06:32
also there would need to be an expanded tutorial on distance shooting where you could practice your skill and really gain an understanding of how the system works

The hideout usually has a gun range. You could practice there. Which reminds me ... bring back the hideout for the new game!

HITMANfromHELL
9th Feb 2014, 18:30
I would like different animations for shooting different body parts. For example, if you shoot someone in the foot vs the shoulder or gut. Of course distance would play a great part of it. Also, this might be a stretch but i'd like a the blood spray back from Blood Money.

mcescher1
9th Feb 2014, 22:40
the gut from what i hear is THE most painful place to be shot

im sure knee caps, ankles, hands (the backs of hands) don't feel that great either hah

most people are not protected in these areas... some police will have bullet proof vests possibly head gear and maybe steel toes (the higher the difficulty the more police/guards wear) ... even swat wear knee pads

this could be one of 47's 'upgrades' and his version of a 'bullet proof outfit'

http://youtu.be/yMsfV1MSCR4

AdrianShephard
10th Feb 2014, 03:38
Hmm I don't know...there was a level in Hitman2 where you had to kill a general who was walking around a park in St. Petersburg. The sniper spot was on a radio tower really far away from the target. From what I remember, there was a wind effect (it was snowing) and that was already hard enough; I couldn't imagine what bullet drop would've added to the frustration. If the levels in this game will indeed be the largest ever, then I don't think it will work (i.e. way to hard) especially if your target is moving.

DeadlyShadow47
10th Feb 2014, 06:52
Hitman 2 nor any other game had any of the mentioned effects like wind, drop (BM had barelly noticible drop). Hitman 2 had ridiculously frustrating up and down moving scope when zoomed in. They fixed it in BM and Sniper Challenge. That being said it would work perfectly - Sniper Challenge is a proof. There are fun games that uses realistic ballistics and has similar mechanics (for ex. Sniper Elite V2, Red Orchestra series)

S3R6i0
11th Feb 2014, 21:56
If they do realistic ballistics, they should include the principle of "squeeze, don't jerk" when pushing down the right trigger. How fast you push the trigger/fire button affects the the steadiness of the rifle.

mcescher1
11th Feb 2014, 22:01
If they do realistic ballistics, they should include the principle of "squeeze, don't jerk" when pushing down the right trigger. How fast you push the trigger/fire button affects the the steadiness of the rifle.

they kind of already have this effect... the one implemented in Absolution...

where you slowly tap R2 (playstation) and it gives you kind of a 'slow motion' action - i liked that - kind of like a 'in the zone' shot

Also:

on the subject of making adding "Realistic Ballistics"

i disagree - strongly -

when it comes to video games i like my bullets to go where they are supposed to go... theres nothing more frustrating than pointing.. shooting... being dead on... and missing... because of some other effect in the game that isn't predictable

the advantage of playing a video game is that you can iron out undesirable factors of reality for the sake of entertainment - to a certain degree... obviously there needs to be a good balance of reality and unrealistic factors.. there is a very thin line sometimes.. and introducing "Realistic Ballistics" might complicate things to the point of anger and frustration

if somehow they find a way to make "realistic Ballistics" fun.. then by all means... my guess is it will be very difficult to perfect

another reason to vote Blood Money 2!! trying to keep it clear on what we really want from the next Hitman

S3R6i0
12th Feb 2014, 01:15
they kind of already have this effect... the one implemented in Absolution...

where you slowly tap R2 (playstation) and it gives you kind of a 'slow motion' action - i liked that - kind of like a 'in the zone' shot

I went back to play Absolution a few days ago. The R2 half squeeze doesn't slow down time, all it does is line up the crosshairs. A headshot, or a fatal wound will slow down time. I think you confused the two. Anyway, that's something different altogether. What I mean by "squeeze, don't jerk", in real life, if you jerk the trigger, that is, if you pull it violently, it's gonna shake the rest of the gun and send the bullet flying in a different direction. In the military, they teach you to pull the trigger, that is pull it back gently enough so that the shot surprises you. It keeps the barrel steady and increases accuracy.

I said they should add something like that.

gkkiller
12th Feb 2014, 12:31
Half-squeezing the trigger does in fact slow time, but only with the sniper rifle.

S3R6i0
12th Feb 2014, 14:05
You're right.

agent047
27th Feb 2014, 16:30
Yes to bullet travel time and bullet drop in the maingame levels. (the wind is too much for hitman game)
A couple missions like hitman2 st of saint petersburg .. when you reach the sniping point and you are aiming on a metting you have to deduce who your target is from real-time infos that ICA comunicate you through radio.

FootFetish4Life
10th Nov 2014, 02:03
This would make Hitman a lot more interesting. Anyone here play Sniper Elite 3 or 2? Take a look at this video, it's basically a real world tutorial to assist you in sniping. The game itself has aim assist option, turning off ballistics. But this is an idea of how Hitman with realistic sniping would look like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCd6Xz9lx7Y

Again, this should be optional and customizable in the settings, and there should be a tutorial in-game. Unfortunately, Sniper Elite 3 didn't offer one.

Master47
10th Nov 2014, 07:13
Here's my take on this and I might be alone on this, but here goes:

I can see why people would want this, but I don't know if I'm one of them. I would probably just skip sniping and go for another approach in that case. I'm still of the belief that if the game tries to accomplish too much at once it will ultimately fail. I think that if "realism", a word people so love to throw around, comes in the way of fun and engaging gameplay it might present a problem. I'm not saying the gameplay shouldn't be challenging, but the way challenge is presented is a design decision and too much realism to accomplish such seems to me like a, sorry if this might upset some, really boring one of the sort.

kewlak
10th Nov 2014, 13:39
If there will be a good tutorial about this ballistics, how to estimate distance etc. - i'm ok with that.

FootFetish4Life
10th Nov 2014, 19:16
@Master47,

Obviously it shouldn't be forced. As in Sniper Elite, it's completely optional. Lots of people like playing without agency assistance so this seems like something right up Hitman's alley. Although, sniping has never really been a strong point for Hitman, unfortunately, IMO. I feel Hitman never had enough sniping opportunities. But maybe that's just me. The suitcase is one of 47's signature items and it's a shame that it's mostly for show.

@kewlak

Yes. There should be a tutorial and specifications for every weapon (distance, power, effective range, etc.) to make figuring out the math interesting. I feel like I'm alienating a lot of people right now but a feature like this would really deliver more depth.

kewlak
10th Nov 2014, 23:42
I feel like I'm alienating a lot of people right now but a feature like this would really deliver more depth.
Every idea should be considered, and ballistics should be beared in mind as well, especially in Hitman, where accuracy matters. I think fans wouldn't be disappointed, especially if realistic ballistics would be optional. We always had many difficulties in Hitman, and hope H6 will be the same in that respect.

Master47
11th Nov 2014, 08:19
I really don't know. Of course the idea is interesting, but I still feel it would be like adding way too much depth to a very, very small portion of the game. With it's own tutorial and all. To me that wouldn't be a logical design choice. Also you say it obviously shouldn't be forced, well again that seems like a lot work for something that's optional and many wouldn't even touch. I'd rather there were simply more sniping opportunities instead.

Sniper Elite can do this since it's focused on exactly sniping, but Hitman is an entirely different game with sniping being relatively minimal. I just don't see the need for this I'm afraid.

Arvin47
11th Nov 2014, 10:21
I really don't know. Of course the idea is interesting, but I still feel it would be like adding way too much depth to a very, very small portion of the game. With it's own tutorial and all. To me that wouldn't be a logical design choice. Also you say it obviously shouldn't be forced, well again that seems like a lot work for something that's optional and many wouldn't even touch. I'd rather there were simply more sniping opportunities instead.

Sniper Elite can do this since it's focused on exactly sniping, but Hitman is an entirely different game with sniping being relatively minimal. I just don't see the need for this I'm afraid.
I think this idea is amazing...it's really important...you know that hitman is only game that let you kill targets by different ways and it require that:every assassination ways should be realistic and challenging.we don't have any optional ways to assassinate targets in hitman game and every single person have a favorite way to kill targets.

Master47
11th Nov 2014, 11:09
I think this idea is amazing...it's really important...you know that hitman is only game that let you kill targets by different ways and it require that:every assassination ways should be realistic and challenging.we don't have any optional ways to assassinate targets in hitman game and every single person have a favorite way to kill targets.

So what exactly are you proposing?

Arvin47
11th Nov 2014, 11:21
I think all assassination ways should be realistic and nice even sniping.
I agree with bullet drop_bullet travel and wind effect and I propose it.

Master47
11th Nov 2014, 11:30
Sure you do. I personally just don't really see the need for a super realistic sniping experience. I'd be perfectly fine looking elsewhere for that. To me it seems like people just demand and demand in an unrealistic manner. See what I did there.

FootFetish4Life
11th Nov 2014, 16:00
@Master47,

From a technical point of view, it really isn't much of a demand. The devs just need to develop a fluctuating algorithm of where the bullet will land. Doesn't seem like a technical marvel to me at all.

On the other hand, if the devs turn Hitman into Sniper Challenge just to justify the new features, I would have a problem with that. One can only dream I guess.

Arvin47
11th Nov 2014, 17:18
now I think I don't like drop bullet...but bullet travel or wind effect is so nice

kewlak
12th Nov 2014, 10:01
I agree with bullet drop_bullet travel and wind effect and I propose it.


now I think I don't like drop bullet...but bullet travel or wind effect is so nice
lol :nut: