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Foxtrot_Delta88
7th Jan 2014, 16:52
With the addition of New Game + on the Director's Cut version of DX:HR, is it possible to get every aug and upgrade though multiple playthroughs? I'm playing it on PS3 by the way, in case that's important or something

Shralla
7th Jan 2014, 21:49
I sure hope not, because that would give even less of a purpose to New Game+.

Foxtrot_Delta88
7th Jan 2014, 22:23
And locking you out of more augments wouldn't? "Oh look, New Game + where you keep your augs but whoops, you can't get anymore praxis kits and get different augs, looks like you're stuck with whatever you have" That would pretty much mean if you did nothing but dump points into let's say a run and gun game style, you're stuck like that unless you start a fresh save, which totally negates NG+, why even put it in at that point

Shralla
7th Jan 2014, 22:25
Oops, I misread your post. Yes you can unlock every aug if you go through NG+.

Foxtrot_Delta88
7th Jan 2014, 22:32
Ahh, ok, yay. After a few days of searching I finally have an answer, Thanks

Jito463
8th Jan 2014, 06:06
Who needs NG+? If you hack everything, knock everyone out and get all the stealth bonuses, you can pretty much unlock all the augs on your first run through. That's one more thing I prefer about the original Deus Ex. You had to choose between different builds, you couldn't have it all. You had to choose between silent running and faster running. You had to choose between environmental resistance or aqualung. There was literally no way to get everything on one playthrough.

ResidentX
24th Mar 2014, 15:08
I just played through DE:HR Director's Cut. I traded in all the guns and other stuff I picked up and hacked everything. I was able to get all the augments. It's fun having all of them. This game is so addictive that now I can finally put this game to rest. I'm moving on to the DE: The Fall

The extras about the game was nice too.

Shralla
24th Mar 2014, 16:56
So you can get them all in one play through? =/

ResidentX
1st Apr 2014, 01:41
During my medium run, I got almost all of the augments before I got the reset when I entered the missing link section. When I came out of ML, I added the remaining and tore through the rest of the game. I don't remember ever playing the Panchaea so fast.

I thought the game was supposed to have a different ending. I was only give two choices not three this time. It was kind of a letdown.

Jito463
1st Apr 2014, 14:22
Did you speak to both Sarif and Taggart before the end?

ResidentX
2nd Apr 2014, 01:13
No, I didn't...I knew I should have done that...I'll make sure I get those side missions this round. What is the aspirin for? I use it but I never do anything.

ResidentX
2nd Apr 2014, 01:14
Also, do you get instant notifications? I have mine turned on but I never get notified.

Jito463
2nd Apr 2014, 18:30
The aspirin is to restore health when it's low, rather than wait for it to regen. What do you mean by "instant notifications"? Notifications of what?

ResidentX
2nd Apr 2014, 19:08
Ooooh....it's the main health(100-200 dot bar) not the energy bars. I've been looking in the wrong place when I used it :-) I used to just discard them.

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 00:13
This game just rocks. Superjump gets you to places I have never visited in the game before. I love it.

IHaveReturned
4th Apr 2014, 01:26
Is there any modification to the director's cut to prevent the inclusion of the Missing Link from breaking the entire game balance after it? Suddenly you have more augs than you did the first time around, so I imagine that breaks things unless EM compensated somehow.

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 02:27
They way they did it makes sense but you have to play it to learn the "Truth"

When you enter the missing link, you loose all your augments. Depending on how well you play, you are awarded a large number of praxis points at the end. The director's cut also adds something called "Game+" which allows you the option to keep your augments in your next round of play. I've always wanted to play this game with everything and this is my chance. Once I finish this on Hard, I'll put this game away and move on to the DE: The Fall.

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 02:49
Remember to have fun with this game. There are so many creative things to do with so many augments.

1. Kill everything. In the past, I used to kill a few and leave. I clean up completely now. I'm addicted to the "takedowns." If you can get 2 or 3 enemies in close proximity the cutscenes are pure joy...a couple of steps make all the difference.
2. Do what you never had time to do before, I take different routes now just for the joy of discovery. I'm finding wonderful things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLj4E9hV-8A

This game is so precious...

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 03:05
Remember that whiner Wayne Haas in the PD? Jensen puts a nice move on him in this takedown, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aHfvH4LBu8

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 03:20
this one's for you, Ihavereturned. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3yG44ru58g

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 03:37
My only complaint about this game is that the enemies don't seem to be as vocal as in the first edition of DE. Some of the stuff they used to say cracked me up. Maybe it's because I'm sneaking up on them and killing softly :-)

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 03:50
Look at what I'm talking about. Jensen's Kobayashi Maru, Cholo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPvAe86KyWg
Anything goes in Deus Ex...I wish I could of got that situation.

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 04:07
My other complaint is the plasma rifle. It says it can take out multiple hostiles at a time but I never could get more than 1 kill per shot.

IHaveReturned
4th Apr 2014, 08:22
When you enter the missing link, you loose all your augments. Depending on how well you play, you are awarded a large number of praxis points at the end.
Seriously? That is EM's idea of "integration into the main game"?! Making it so I don't have to close one app and start a different one? Then what the hell did I pay for the Director's Cut upgrade for?! Some slightly better graphics? Improved boss fights that shouldn't have been botched in the first place?

Jeezus! I thought that was the big selling point of the DC! That they had actually integrated the DLC into the game's storyline, mechanics and all. The implication was that I would avoid the stupidity of suddenly having all my upgrades swapped out for different ones! That the entire upgrade scheme would be adjusted for the extra levels so it would feel like a complete experience instead of some jarring cutout in the middle! A mechanics rework to justify re-purchasing the game!

God damn EM.

Karpaw
4th Apr 2014, 09:35
Jensen having his augs switched off in TML is part of the narrative, so of course they wouldn't change that. The DLC starts with him in the chair, reset to "Factory zero".

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 16:18
Ihavereturned,

What's with all the anger? This is a great game with lots of flexibility. How many games can you play numerous times? I'm sorry you don't like the Director's cut...you might want to give it chance and actually play it. Did you know that Tong has a son?

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 16:23
Ihavereturned,

Can I ask what your reasoning was for buying the DC? What were you expecting?

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 16:46
I just want to add this before I go. The DE:HR: DC added the following items:

Game+
Extras(Interviews and making of Deus Ex)
Harder Bosses
More weapons throughout the game
Director Commentary. I have not had time yet to explore this feature
Strategy Guide. I not sure what or where this is.
Touch features for Wii and Xbox/Smartglass

IHaveReturned
4th Apr 2014, 17:24
Okay, the factory reset thing helps, but it is still just a rationalization of a fundamentaly jarring mechanic. I specifically held off on playing further in the game because I had heard the DLC didn't respect your upgrades, which I had presumed was because it was a separate app (which still seems likely) but that the DC would actually integrate it into the game. So obviously I didn't expect the equivalent of a main menu option, I expected real integration. Which of course becomes impossible if EM made the aug reset plot-related.

Damn. That is still pretty disappointing. I thought having to start my game over and having a completely new app in my Steam library was justified by the game having been remade. This thing turned out to be just a glorified patch after all...

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 17:44
You need to pay attention, review this cutscene for how we got to the missing link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Rvl0NJVww

IHaveReturned
4th Apr 2014, 18:46
I need "to pay attention"? When a DLC is set in the middle of a game, you tend to avoid spoiling yourself on its particulars until you have actually arrived at that point in the story. As I said, I stopped ahead of this to avoid jarring mechanics resulting from the DLC being separated from the main game. Little did I know such a ridicilous thing was actually intentional on EM's part, to the point where even an actual integration by necessity would be merely cosmetic. It's like this company went creatively bankrupt the moment DXHR was released.

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 18:50
Are you serious? I can't believe this...Deus Ex will live on Forever. I can't wait for Deus Ex: Human Revolution: The Legendary Edition. The End.

IHaveReturned
4th Apr 2014, 19:07
Well, think about it. This is all on EM.

First they release a game whose plot has a giant hole in the middle with content apparently significant enough to make a DLC out of, possibly even with a plan to fill that hole later. Then, because apparently you can't just add a DLC to the main game layout and design it from there, they have to contrive a story where Adam loses all of his augs. And then they make a 180, and decide to squeeze us for more money by integrating the thing after all, after having gone to some lengths to keep it separate, without making plot and mechanic changes to fit the inclusion.

Its schizophrenic game design with a transparent lack of forethought and planning. They are all over the place, and I'm convinced the DC ends up suffering for it, compared to what could have been, had they just planned things out properly from the start.

Also, what is the Legacy Pack?

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 19:33
We will probably agree on Two points. Point 1, DE:HR and DE:ML were probably designed with eventual reunification in mind. Software is complex. Techniques change because there are better methods to do something over time. The DE:HR:DC is not just a merging of two piece of software. New features were added.

Also, Jensen in ML lost all his augs the first time...this is not something new. This is unchanged.

Point 2, they are squeezing us for more money...I think I paid $4.99 on Steam because I bought the original DE:HR and DE: ML w/addons. I don't have a problem with this.

These guys are too smart for "schizophrenic game design with a transparent lack of forethought and planning."
The DC lets players experience something that was impossible previously...A fully augmented Adam Jensen that you can play from beginning of the game. This is a nice feature and I'm taking advantage of it now.

Shralla
4th Apr 2014, 21:41
These guys are too smart for "schizophrenic game design with a transparent lack of forethought and planning."

Tell that to the Director's Cut and Thief.

ResidentX
4th Apr 2014, 21:47
I don't understand. Was the comment true or not? I thought the game was designed well but maybe the others feel differently.

IHaveReturned
4th Apr 2014, 23:21
We will probably agree on Two points. Point 1, DE:HR and DE:ML were probably designed with eventual reunification in mind. Software is complex. Techniques change because there are better methods to do something over time. The DE:HR:DC is not just a merging of two piece of software. New features were added.

Also, Jensen in ML lost all his augs the first time...this is not something new. This is unchanged.
I must have been supremely unclear, for this is the opposite of what I tried to say.

I don't think HR and ML were intended to be reunified. If that had been the case, they probably would have just included the DLC the first time around. More likely time ran out and they chose the important bits of HR, while leaving the less important plot hole for a DLC. Not ideal, but understandable. Then they did the DLC, and because it was separate and it apprently takes a whole new app to integrate the two, they had to take away Adam's augs in the story. And had it ended there, I would have been fine with it, given what I now know. Ideally it should have been included to begin with, but if not, that is acceptable, since the contrivance is explained away.

The two being unified in the DC is the problem IMO. The original story of the DLC is undermined by its obvious RL origins being taken away. With an integrated product, there is no overarching reason for Adam to lose his augs. Which is why, along with a brand new app at a price rivaling what I paid for the original game, I had expected this DC to do away with that loss, to maintain the upgrades you had, and rebalance the rest of the game accordingly for a unified experience. Apart from the boss fights, that was the only reason I figured this was a worth a brand new version of the game, why it had taken two years to make. For the rest of it sounds like it could have been handled by a regular patch.

It's not that I'm displeased that they did integrate the two while they were at it. It's just that my purchase was founded on the belief that this was a genuine integration, as if the DLC had never been cut out of HR to begin with, something every non-spoiler indication suggested. And then I got this glorified patch instead, just because EM had to make a DLC interquel of all things, the only RPG interquel I'm aware of that doesn't permit you to keep your skills.

ResidentX
5th Apr 2014, 00:19
How would Jensen having access to all of his augments during the missing link improve the game?

I think the augments would have definitely thrown that piece of the game out of balance.

IHaveReturned
6th Apr 2014, 12:18
Cart before the horse. If keeping his augs is detrimental to the missions that is a problem with the mission design. Then obviously the whole thing was based on a foundation of him losing them. The least I had expected was a rebalance where that would no longer be the case.

The point is, you can't ask how it would have benefitted a DLC not designed for it. It obviously wouldn't. But that is a result of how it was envisioned and designed from the start, not some inviolable law of nature that demanded the plot and mechanics be designed that way. It could have been different had it not been a separate app, and that is what I had hoped for with the DC.

Jito463
6th Apr 2014, 12:20
Cart before the horse. If keeping his augs is detrimental to the missions that is a problem with the mission design. Then obviously the whole thing was based on a foundation of him losing them.

My thoughts exactly. I was actually planning on posting something very similar, just hadn't got around to it. Not that I mind how it worked out in the end, but it's apparent that it was forced because the DLC was originally released as standalone, so they had no knowledge of how many Praxis kits you had in the main game, or what build-out you had chosen, so they had to design the whole thing around him losing his augs.

hybridex
13th Apr 2014, 16:20
Given that it is part of the ML storyline, in actuality, I still don't know how Jensen would had gotten captured, in the first place. With his cyberpack, cloaking abilities and stealth takedown, it would literally be impossible to take him down or subdue it. Unless they came up with an off switch or something better that the implant you can or decide not to get in Hengsha 2.

ResidentX
13th Apr 2014, 18:42
Given that it is part of the ML storyline, in actuality, I still don't know how Jensen would had gotten captured, in the first place. With his cyberpack, cloaking abilities and stealth takedown, it would literally be impossible to take him down or subdue it. Unless they came up with an off switch or something better that the implant you can or decide not to get in Hengsha 2.

Interesting comment. Jensen was in a sea of human containers. How they found him I would like to know that. Maybe they didn't have a shipping manifest and quarantined him before he woke up. Keitner said he took out a lot of soldiers before they took him down.

dysamoria
15th Apr 2014, 04:46
Personally, i find it a mixed bag. On one hand, it's realistic that he might suffer a system reset and be forced to cope with it (realistic, as in, technology sucks even in the future; i mean, notice that he's still having to pay to unlock stuff already built in... he shoulda pirated the praxis unlocks, hah hah)... But on the other hand, it makes the middle of the game suddenly a LOT HARDER to play in spite of your efforts to build out and learn to use the augs you have acquired so far in the game. It's jarring. It DOES appear to be entirely designed for a standalone, rather than simply a "missing chapter" reinserted, yet that missing chapter is a HUGE reveal about the technology and the abuse of people by corporations. To me, that was the most shocking story element in the whole game, and it wasn't even originally THERE in the original edition?? Wow!

Also, New Game + is broken by once again losing all your augments when you get to the missing link chapter! There's no way to play the missing link with all your augments, so the New Game + doesn't really exist in that context.

ResidentX
15th Apr 2014, 15:32
Personally, i find it a mixed bag. On one hand, it's realistic that he might suffer a system reset and be forced to cope with it (realistic, as in, technology sucks even in the future; i mean, notice that he's still having to pay to unlock stuff already built in... he shoulda pirated the praxis unlocks, hah hah)... But on the other hand, it makes the middle of the game suddenly a LOT HARDER to play in spite of your efforts to build out and learn to use the augs you have acquired so far in the game. It's jarring. It DOES appear to be entirely designed for a standalone, rather than simply a "missing chapter" reinserted, yet that missing chapter is a HUGE reveal about the technology and the abuse of people by corporations. To me, that was the most shocking story element in the whole game, and it wasn't even originally THERE in the original edition?? Wow!

Also, New Game + is broken by once again losing all your augments when you get to the missing link chapter! There's no way to play the missing link with all your augments, so the New Game + doesn't really exist in that context.

I disagree with your assessment. I just think this game has so much inside if they don't restrict/reset the augments you'll blow through this game. I'm playing it now with all my augments and the game is different. I saved Malik from the Hengsha ambush over the weekend. Something I could have never have done before.

I did laugh at the "technology sucks even in the future..." and the "pirated the praxis unlocks" comments.

hybridex
15th Apr 2014, 23:44
I'm sure with Burke and his military being secretive, they would have the technology be able to temporary reset the augmentation. However, with the arsenal that Jensen holds in his inventory and his takedown abilities multiple times over with continuing replenishment from the cyberpack, there is still no way he could have been subdued. 8 guys or spec ops soldiers would still not be enough. Still, somehow he was subdued and reset to factory zero, but it had made the ML interesting and more challenging to play that way. Still good storyline to throw in Tong's son rescue and ML to the main game.

ResidentX
15th Apr 2014, 23:50
I'm sure with Burke and his military being secretive, they would have the technology be able to temporary reset the augmentation. However, with the arsenal that Jensen holds in his inventory and his takedown abilities multiple times over with continuing replenishment from the cyberpack, there is still no way he could have been subdued. 8 guys or spec ops soldiers would still not be enough. Still, somehow he was subdued and reset to factory zero, but it had made the ML interesting and more challenging to play that way. Still good storyline to throw in Tong's son rescue and ML to the main game.

Jensen is augmented but he has to sleep, right? I could see them around him and then he woke up and the story does kind of go to hell. How do you disable the typhoon system...it was bleeding edge?

hybridex
17th Apr 2014, 01:21
Yes.. I agree that it had to happen for the storyline of ML to spin off, but game-wise and theoretically speaking, Jensen is actually invincible. I have gone through the entire gameplay, and I am sure many have as well, without getting killed or even touched or seen, due to his cloaking and multiple takedown abilities. You would not eben not his cloaking for a flawless undetected play, however and It kicks ass for getting ghost every time. Of course, in all fairness, even Superman has his kryptonite. So, I am sure his typhoon and augs could be reset and temporarily deactivated. That typhoon is badass too!

Karpaw
17th Apr 2014, 17:37
I enjoy the aug reset in TML. By that time in the last quarter of the game, you're normally so overpowered that going back to zero offers a change of pace and having to consider your actions tactically again.

hybridex
17th Apr 2014, 20:20
I agree with you totally. It was a nice change of pace and to see that Jensen is not really so invincible, all bloodied up while strapped in that chair. It is also hilarious how his humor comes out during the exchange with Keitner, even though he is all bloodied up and really no outlook yet of an escape, at that starting point of the game.

IHaveReturned
18th Apr 2014, 23:57
Also, New Game + is broken by once again losing all your augments when you get to the missing link chapter! There's no way to play the missing link with all your augments, so the New Game + doesn't really exist in that context.
What? That is just ridicilous. They couldn't even let you keep your augs for the NG+ version?! That defies the purpose of the mode! Do you at least get your total Praxis back after, so you can continue where you left off afterwards?

ResidentX
19th Apr 2014, 00:09
What? That is just ridicilous. They couldn't even let you keep your augs for the NG+ version?! That defies the purpose of the mode! Do you at least get your total Praxis back after, so you can continue where you left off afterwards?

You get them back...in praxis points. I don't know what the big deal is about this. Burke is a wimp, http://youtu.be/lr0rixj8Qiw

hybridex
19th Apr 2014, 06:03
You're right.. Burke is nothing but hot air. The only thing he's capable of is he can get to you psychologically from his continuous rambling, if you let that get to you. You literally have to kill him.. just knocking him out will not do justice. I wonder, though, if he will be back in DX4 as Jensen's adversary and with the aug upgraded as Jensen has.

ResidentX
19th Apr 2014, 14:34
There are many questions for Deus Ex 4...

1. How will be the villains? The Dragon Queen/Zhao Yun Ru is gone. Do the Tyrants exist now? I guess we'll get some new ones...
2. The D-Project. Megan Reed joins Bob Page(Illuminati) to work on this. Is she going to be a future Villain? I never liked her...
3. Sarif Industries and Jensen. What happens to them? Megan was the "activation energy" for they're growth. David Sarif I'm curious about too.
4. Does Burke/BellTower comeback? Quinn in the Missing Link was interesting though.

I don't have answers and I don't expect you to either but these are the questions the Devs have to answer at Eidos before we get a DX4.

Shralla
19th Apr 2014, 18:17
Hopefully very few of those things are directly referenced in a potential sequel. It's supposed to be a new entry in a franchise, not a sequel to HR specifically.

ResidentX
19th Apr 2014, 18:40
It's supposed to be a new entry in a franchise, not a sequel to HR specifically.

Did they say that? I was hoping for a follow-up specifically to DE:HR then we move on to other things.

Shralla
19th Apr 2014, 19:05
No other proper Deus Ex entry has ever done that, so why start now? It just reeks of unoriginality and a desperate attempt to keep hold of the people who only jumped on the bandwagon after HR came out, who they might assume would be confused or upset by too many changes to the setting and characters. Deus Ex is not a franchise like Mass Effect, it's more like Fallout as far as how the stories presented in each game are mostly independent.

ResidentX
19th Apr 2014, 20:23
No other proper Deus Ex entry has ever done that, so why start now? It just reeks of unoriginality and a desperate attempt to keep hold of the people who only jumped on the bandwagon after HR came out, who they might assume would be confused or upset by too many changes to the setting and characters. Deus Ex is not a franchise like Mass Effect, it's more like Fallout as far as how the stories presented in each game are mostly independent.

The Devs talked about this in their commentaries when discussing the first DE and DE:HR. DE is an old game. They tried to pay respect to the original while modernizing it for a new generation. I played DE a few years back but I never finished it. Did they leave things open like they in DE: HR in DE? This is my concern. I'd like to devs to actually bring a story to a conclusion. The way DE: HR and DE: The Fall ended your probably right though...

ResidentX
19th Apr 2014, 20:35
It just reeks of unoriginality and a desperate attempt to keep hold of the people who only jumped on the bandwagon after HR came out, who they might assume would be confused or upset by too many changes to the setting and characters. Deus Ex is not a franchise like Mass Effect, it's more like Fallout as far as how the stories presented in each game are mostly independent.

I never played Mass Effect or Fallout so I can't comment but I understand what you mean by "Franchise" though.
Based on that, I'm assuming THEN that we'll get new people and new environments in DX4. I think your comment about unoriginal and desperate are platitudes. I think Eidos has a reason to build something that will attract/reinvite former players because it ensures the success of the game and makes it easier to market. Example, we had this many people buy DX3 and based on statistic sampling we can expect this(X) many to sign on again.

Just for the record, ION STORM developed Deus Ex. Eidos Montreal did Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Different teams will try to put their mark on a game. DX4 will be done by Eidos Montreal so I'm sure they'll try to leverage existing assets. They won't recreate everything...this isn't enough time for that.

Karpaw
19th Apr 2014, 21:55
No other proper Deus Ex entry has ever done that, so why start now? It just reeks of unoriginality and a desperate attempt to keep hold of the people who only jumped on the bandwagon after HR came out, who they might assume would be confused or upset by too many changes to the setting and characters. Deus Ex is not a franchise like Mass Effect, it's more like Fallout as far as how the stories presented in each game are mostly independent.
True but up until now, the main games have been set roughly a generation apart. DX4 will presumably be the first to happen between two other main entries, which will probably necessitate more continuity tie-ins to Human Revolution as there isn't as much time for the power players in the setting to change. Unless they decide to go the reboot route and ignore everything post-HR to have more creative freedom with the story.

ResidentX
19th Apr 2014, 23:54
True but up until now, the main games have been set roughly a generation apart. DX4 will presumably be the first to happen between two other main entries, which will probably necessitate more continuity tie-ins to Human Revolution as there isn't as much time for the power players in the setting to change. Unless they decide to go the reboot route and ignore everything post-HR to have more creative freedom with the story.

They've invested so much in DE:HR, I just can't see them walking away from that investment and totally starting over...that would be nuts. Time is finite. You can't always do what you want. I see it going this way. They expand the storyline with DE: The Fall for "lights on business" while they layout a roadmap for the Finale in DX4.

Shralla
20th Apr 2014, 00:48
They didn't invest any more than anybody did in Deus Ex 1 or Invisible War. Aside from people clinging to the things they're intimately familiar with, there's little more story to tell as a direct continuance of HR. A new main character in a new time period with a new set of circumstances is the ideal way to tell an effective follow-up story.

ResidentX
20th Apr 2014, 02:06
They didn't invest any more than anybody did in Deus Ex 1 or Invisible War. Aside from people clinging to the things they're intimately familiar with, there's little more story to tell as a direct continuance of HR. A new main character in a new time period with a new set of circumstances is the ideal way to tell an effective follow-up story.

I wish I had numbers to reply to you. I'll do research on this.

About the story continuation, I think there is a lot still unresolved. Bob Page is the element that has been in all 3 of the games(DE, DE:HR, and DE: The Fall) and he still has lots of work to do to get to his point in the original DE. Even Gunther Hermann survives. TYM has to survive without the DragonQueen, Sarif Industries has move past losing Megan Reed, Tracer Tong has to join Luminous Path, and the merger of Versalife with Page industries still has to happen.

ResidentX
20th Apr 2014, 03:07
This is the best I can give you right now:

Sales as of September 2011:
Deus Ex: 1.1 million plus
Deus Ex: Invisible War: 1.2 million plus
Deus Ex: Human Revolution: 2.18 million

hybridex
21st Apr 2014, 17:31
I think it will have to Jensen again and the continuation of DXHR for DX4. It kinda hinted at the beginning of DXHR with the dialogue when, who is that guy, Mr. Bob or something, was talking to the investors who appeared as computerized images, about nanotechnology and the Illuminati. The Illuminati is also mentioned again at the end of ML where they were talking about Jensen being the one "to be able to do it.. as long as he doesn't get himself killed first." So with the current ending of DXHR doesn't really accomplish anything, it will likely be a continuation.. Plus, he is not done with Megan yet. Jensen wants answers!

ResidentX
21st Apr 2014, 17:39
I agree Hybridex with your comment. Even Megan when Jensen found her told him that she was able to find the solutions/genetic framework for Sarif because of his DNA. The cutscene is here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY9mI_Rm1Tw He's sort of like Alice and the T-Virus(Resident Evil).

auric
25th May 2014, 06:21
For a "director cut" I'm sad the didn't redirect jensens takedown to fix him hitting air or no facial expression or maybe new takedown moves like near a ledge or behind a couch. :)

ResidentX
25th May 2014, 14:40
It would be nice if they had added some new moves but I think the Crystal tools had limits. Let's hope we get some new techniques in DE:4

Also, why do you want facial expressions?

Shralla
25th May 2014, 17:47
Because it's entirely unbelievable that he's doing all that fighting and keeping a deadlocked straight face while doing so. The same reason enemy facial animations are important.

Really though, they should just get rid of third-person altogether and they won't have to worry about Adam's facial animations except in conversations.

Jito463
25th May 2014, 19:14
I say, get rid of "takedowns"...altogether (come on, you know you want to say it :) ).

They're not immersive, and they look ridiculous. Especially when you have people lying on the ground in fear, and you hit the "instant win" takedown button, and suddenly they're 'kung-fu fighting' you. Go back to the classics. Old doesn't always equal bad, likewise new doesn't always equal good. The original Deus Ex method of whacking someone with a baton/knife/crowbar from behind was elegant and immersive. And it required you to actually aim for vital areas, it didn't auto-win for you. Plus, if they detected you, it meant you had to work harder to actually take them down, since you didn't get a damage bonus on alerted enemies.

auric
25th May 2014, 21:32
Because it's entirely unbelievable that he's doing all that fighting and keeping a deadlocked straight face while doing so. The same reason enemy facial animations are important.

Really though, they should just get rid of third-person altogether and they won't have to worry about Adam's facial animations except in conversations.

Personally I like the takedowns, just need lots of work...
If they want it, they need to take it seriously like splinter cell did...

Every moment and situation have a different takedown moves.
If the person is on the floor, just stab or wack them on the floor.

Civilians also need different moves that shows they're simpler to thugs and Aug enemies more tougher...

auric
25th May 2014, 21:44
Had to be my own director in my playthrough... Like before the guy drops on the floor, I cut straight to the takedown with him still standing.

Or immediate stab rather then see them walking normally in a combat situation. :)
This is the first mission example.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ9B991tC1M

Also I made some dialog cuts in other parts of the game to make Adam say what I want to like to Mr. X
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nbJafW0FjP0

CyberP
25th May 2014, 22:54
Really though, they should just get rid of third-person altogether and they won't have to worry about Adam's facial animations except in conversations.

Which should be in first person too, so none at all ;)
Instead more effort on the NPCs, like the boss battle convos in DX:HR but not all NPCs to that highly detailed extent for obvious reasons.

auric
25th May 2014, 22:58
Which should be in first person too, so none at all ;)
Instead more effort on the NPCs, like the boss battle convos in DX:HR but not all NPCs to that highly detailed extent for obvious reasons.

Convos? U mean their talking during battle?

CyberP
25th May 2014, 23:16
Convos? U mean their talking during battle?

No, I mean the conversation boss battles. Taggart at the Detroit convention centre, Hugh Darrow at Panchaea etc.

That's how a conversation should play out in an immersive sim. That is the ideal design to strive for with all conversations (first person perspective, excellent animations (including facial)), but obviously with the limitations of game development it's not going to happen, plus it's a lot of work.
If they ditch the third person they can focus on coming close to this "ideal design": some NPCs highly animated and unique, others with copy and paste sequences, some that just stand there smoking a cigerette not moving much, but that would be fairly believable anyway, as long as the cigarette actually goes down with each drag and then the NPC drops and puts a foot on it after a set number of tokes.

Basically, Elder scrolls/Fallout type NPC conversations for most generic characters, DX:HR highly detailed convos (of the boss battle convos) for all important characters. Also the occasional highly animated generic character conversation just to mix things up and hold believability (so the player doesn't recognise the constucted rule of "hey, this guy is pacing while we are discussing things, must be an important character"), it will come across as more organic.
Onbviously it's preferable to have most characters not move much in a convo, maybe the occasional head scratch and other body language, nothing too taxing. If done right every convo could be believable and immersive, if it has decent voice acting and writing etc to match.

ResidentX
25th May 2014, 23:33
Because it's entirely unbelievable that he's doing all that fighting and keeping a deadlocked straight face while doing so. The same reason enemy facial animations are important.

Really though, they should just get rid of third-person altogether and they won't have to worry about Adam's facial animations except in conversations.

Shralla, maybe you don't get this...HE'S A KILLER!! Do you want to see him smiling or sad when he's at work? Besides, smiling while your ramming two steel rods into two soldiers might give kids the wrong impression...

But you might be on to something here. Maybe the crystal tools could be modified to spew profanities while taking damage. I think that's as close as we're going to get.

ResidentX
25th May 2014, 23:36
I say, get rid of "takedowns"...altogether (come on, you know you want to say it :) ).

They're not immersive, and they look ridiculous. Especially when you have people lying on the ground in fear, and you hit the "instant win" takedown button, and suddenly they're 'kung-fu fighting' you. Go back to the classics. Old doesn't always equal bad, likewise new doesn't always equal good. The original Deus Ex method of whacking someone with a baton/knife/crowbar from behind was elegant and immersive. And it required you to actually aim for vital areas, it didn't auto-win for you. Plus, if they detected you, it meant you had to work harder to actually take them down, since you didn't get a damage bonus on alerted enemies.

Wow, not immersive...This was the only reason I replayed DE:HR so many times was to see the various takedowns. I hope they expand this. Instant wins? I tried to use the moves on the bosses and they reversed me.

Don't get me started on Original Deus Ex. There was on such thing as immersion in that game...I was always aware of time in that game.

CyberP
25th May 2014, 23:43
Wow, not immersive...

You "felt like Jason Bourne", not Adam Jensen/you yourself. Says it all really.


This was the only reason I replayed DE:HR so many times was to see the various takedowns.

"See" the various takedowns, not feel like you were performing them yourself. Says it all.


Instant wins? I tried to use the moves on the bosses and they turned reversed me.

You need more time to become an illuminated one, with time it can perhaps happen, but you will never become the supreme enlightened as I will get there first :p

ResidentX
25th May 2014, 23:52
Personally I like the takedowns, just need lots of work...
If they want it, they need to take it seriously like splinter cell did...

Every moment and situation have a different takedown moves.
If the person is on the floor, just stab or wack them on the floor.

Civilians also need different moves that shows they're simpler to thugs and Aug enemies more tougher...

Keep talking, Auric

We need like 10 stock moves based on karate, jujitsu or something. I was thinking about Catwoman in Batman Arkham City, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4bm1Oy1j8Y, but like Splinter Cell is awesome.

CyberP
26th May 2014, 00:03
The Immersive Sim is dead :(

The most intelligently designed genre of game, the deepest, the most rewarding, the most meaningful...in my opinion.

One day I will be partly responsible for it's revival. No compromising substitutes like those of today; the real deal.

ResidentX
26th May 2014, 00:10
You "felt like Jason Bourne", not Adam Jensen/you yourself. Says it all really.


I don't know how to respond to this one. I didn't really understand it.


"See" the various takedowns, not feel like you were performing them yourself. Says it all.

I got into "seeing" the takedowns and I wondered how many there were. During the game I "watched" to see if they were scripted or if I could control them. Sometimes, I got specific ones to replicate if I approached a certain way. This was the immersion for me...trying to get specific takedowns to kick.


You need more time to become an illuminated one, with time it can perhaps happen, but you will never become the supreme enlightened as I will get there first :p Whatever, I'm heading back to my 1 hour of Deus EX: The original.

ResidentX
26th May 2014, 00:12
The Immersive Sim is dead :(

The most intelligently designed genre of game, the deepest, the most rewarding, the most meaningful...in my opinion.

One day I will be partly responsible for it's revival. No compromising substitutes like those of today; the real deal.

So what's next, CyberP...or should we call you "The Oracle?"

ResidentX
26th May 2014, 00:16
No, I mean the conversation boss battles. Taggart at the Detroit convention centre, Hugh Darrow at Panchaea etc.

That's how a conversation should play out in an immersive sim. That is the ideal design to strive for with all conversations (first person perspective, excellent animations (including facial)), but obviously with the limitations of game development it's not going to happen, plus it's a lot of work.
If they ditch the third person they can focus on coming close to this "ideal design": some NPCs highly animated and unique, others with copy and paste sequences, some that just stand there smoking a cigerette not moving much, but that would be fairly believable anyway, as long as the cigarette actually goes down with each drag and then the NPC drops and puts a foot on it after a set number of tokes.

Basically, Elder scrolls/Fallout type NPC conversations for most generic characters, DX:HR highly detailed convos (of the boss battle convos) for all important characters. Also the occasional highly animated generic character conversation just to mix things up and hold believability (so the player doesn't recognise the constucted rule of "hey, this guy is pacing while we are discussing things, must be an important character"), it will come across as more organic.
Onbviously it's preferable to have most characters not move much in a convo, maybe the occasional head scratch and other body language, nothing too taxing. If done right every convo could be believable and immersive, if it has decent voice acting and writing etc to match.

Your wrong here, CyberP. I hated these parts in the game, sorry. I liked using the social tech but they were a bore(The Quinn dialogues were the exception). I felt I was cajoling the AI....not immersive! The only way this would work was if they tweaked the dialogue more to be like the original Deus Ex. That game had thoughtful and clever dialogue tracks. DE:HR has work to do here...if DE:HR added lots of these I probably would not have replayed the game as much as I have. I'm sorry I just hated the dead, long dialogue tracks.

Edit: Your really got me going with this one. Are you old enough to remember that old flash game where you used a long convoso to get college chicks to sleep with you? Each girl had a different personality and a unique "give it up" killphrase. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. This is why I left SWTOR too. Mulling over decisions is not why we play games.

CyberP
26th May 2014, 02:04
Your wrong here, CyberP. I hated these parts in the game, sorry. I liked using the social tech but they were a bore(The Quinn dialogues were the exception). I felt I was cajoling the AI....not immersive! The only way this would work was if they tweaked the dialogue more to be like the original Deus Ex. That game had thoughtful and clever dialogue tracks. DE:HR has work to do here...if DE:HR added lots of these I probably would not have replayed the game as much as I have. I'm sorry I just hated the dead, long dialogue tracks.

Edit: Your really got me going with this one. Are you old enough to remember that old flash game where you used a long convoso to get college chicks to sleep with you? Each girl had a different personality and a unique "give it up" killphrase. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. This is why I left SWTOR too. Mulling over decisions is not why we play games.

Hold on, I never mentioned the CASIE, conversation structure and writing quality of the boss battles.
I specifically mentioned and focused on the use of First Person perspective and the animations of the NPCs in these boss conversations.


So what's next, CyberP...or should we call you "The Oracle?"

Nope, you shall one day refer to me as the Supreme Enlightened One :D

auric
26th May 2014, 02:13
Keep talking, Auric

We need like 10 stock moves based on karate, jujitsu or something. I was thinking about Catwoman in Batman Arkham City, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4bm1Oy1j8Y, but like Splinter Cell is awesome.

More importantly what an ex SWAT would do and more with enhancements.
If he never learn karate, he dun know how to do it but cheap imitation of the movies

auric
26th May 2014, 05:18
Anyway, cinematic takedowns works better with Adam then JC because he got all them augs to show off.

What do u want to see in JC? Glowing eyes or nanites flying out of his body?
Cause that's all he has nanites augmenting him... No blades to appear out of no where.
Unless you want nanites to be able to construct and deconstruct a blade within seconds...

Sounds like the T-1000 or Transformers or the Borg.
:)

ResidentX
26th May 2014, 20:12
Anyway, cinematic takedowns works better with Adam then JC because he got all them augs to show off.

What do u want to see in JC? Glowing eyes or nanites flying out of his body?
Cause that's all he has nanites augmenting him... No blades to appear out of no where.
Unless you want nanites to be able to construct and deconstruct a blade within seconds...

Sounds like the T-1000 or Transformers or the Borg.
:)

JC should be technically superior to Jensen but we had the games made in reverse. What's so funny is if you could make a muscle limbs out of nanites you could probably make an eye actually look like an eye, lol :-) ION Storm just didn't have the vision to see what this could be...

A state of the art human machine that requires a crowbar? WTF...can you see the influence of half-life?
I better stop my deus ex comments until I finish the game.

auric
26th May 2014, 22:23
JC should be technically superior to Jensen but we had the games made in reverse. What's so funny is if you could make a muscle limbs out of nanites you could probably make an eye actually look like an eye, lol :-) ION Storm just didn't have the vision to see what this could be...

A state of the art human machine that requires a crowbar? WTF...can you see the influence of half-life?
I better stop my deus ex comments until I finish the game.

Unless the muscle limb dun look like an actual limb. :D
So they're spot on.

The main superiority about nano Aug is achieving almost the same enhancements without mutilating ones own body.
Doubt he'd be able to punch through walls though.
Not without crippling his hands for a while till they regenerate.

Sure JC should be able to kill with bare hands but its not much to do if just that, hence need a melee weapon that is not attached to them.

ResidentX
26th May 2014, 22:39
The main superiority about nano Aug is achieving almost the same enhancements without mutilating ones own body.
Doubt he'd be able to punch through walls though. Not without crippling his hands for a while till they regenerate.

Sure JC should be able to kill with bare hands but its not much to do if just that, hence need a melee weapon that is not attached to them.

I'm holding my comments here till I finish the game. I want to understand this better. JC didn't look like Bob Page and the others who had hideous veins running through their bodies. If they had nano augs, I probably wouldn't want to be them. Was JC and Paul Denton different models or something? They looked normal...

auric
27th May 2014, 01:28
I'm holding my comments here till I finish the game. I want to understand this better. JC didn't look like Bob Page and the others who had hideous veins running through their bodies. If they had nano augs, I probably wouldn't want to be them. Was JC and Paul Denton different models or something? They looked normal...

Been a while since I played it... Bit blur on the lore but iirc they're the first?
Hence its a big issue with UNATCO. Every one wants to see what they can do.

But I won't be surprise if there r unofficial first nano-augs.
:)

Where in the game are u now?

ResidentX
27th May 2014, 01:41
Been a while since I played it... Bit blur on the lore but iirc they're the first?
Hence its a big issue with UNATCO. Every one wants to see what they can do.

But I won't be surprise if there r unofficial first nano-augs.
:)

Where in the game are u now?

I escaped from the MJ12 Facility and kill Anna Navarre and now I'm in Hong Kong looking for Tracer. I'm looking for the dragon's tooth now.

auric
27th May 2014, 02:48
I escaped from the MJ12 Facility and kill Anna Navarre and now I'm in Hong Kong looking for Tracer. I'm looking for the dragon's tooth now.

Ahh, love that dragon's tooth. But lots of oddity about it, lol

CyberP
27th May 2014, 03:39
A state of the art human machine that requires a crowbar?

Requires? There is no requirement here. it's a tool in the world that you can choose to use or not. Perfectly logical. What, you wanted him to have mechanical arm blades despite the fact he is augmented with nano bots not mechanical augs?
Hmm, I suppose it would have been possible because the spydrone is constructed via the nanobots, but instead he has combat strength and a variety of melee weapons to choose from, which is better :)


I'm holding my comments here till I finish the game. I want to understand this better. JC didn't look like Bob Page and the others who had hideous veins running through their bodies. If they had nano augs, I probably wouldn't want to be them. Was JC and Paul Denton different models or something? They looked normal...

You'll find out more about this later.