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View Full Version : Harder/More In Depth Puzzles!



Senso_7
6th Jan 2014, 19:20
Hello all. I decided to finally make a profile after browsing these forums for a while. In doing so, i have saw people complain about Lara's new look, talk about the return of her manor, etc etc etc.

While i did see some complain about the lack of puzzles in TR9, i didn't see as much of an uproar as i thought i would. Having finally picked it up this past week and playing about halfway through the story, i feel as if i can finally add my own two cents about this game.

Let me start off by saying i do love it for its platforming, and engaging gameplay. And don't even get me started on the new Lara, she is an absolute DREAM; and for the first time in my opinion, we have a "real" Lara. But the reason i put off buying this one, was because i read reviews saying that old TR fans wont recognize it as a TR game...which, after playing for the first 2 hours was pretty clear to being true. Aside from the fact that we don't see the "badass lara" we have all come to know(which honestly doesn't bother me a bit, i love her new character) the thing that keeps this from feeling like a true TR title is the lack of ENGAGING PUZZLES.

Looking back to my child hood days on the ps1 playing TR i still remember how hard the puzzles in those games were. I would literally spend hours looking for the one lever, or one button, or trying to figure out where i needed to push this block etc etc. (As most of us do) It was the most rewarding and satisfying thing once you finally accomplished some of those puzzles.

Fast forward to 2013 and we have a game that, while engaging and action packed,(Im all for more action) does not at ALL challenge the player. **SPOILER AHEAD** When i found the first tomb i was amped because i was like, "finally! surely there will be a puzzle that will challenge me in here." 5 minutes later i walk out of the tomb with the joke of a "puzzle" completed and treasure map obtained. Then i find the second tomb. Which, while not as ridiculously easy as the first tomb, still had little to no challenge.(I refuse to use the eagle visio....err...i mean "survival instincts" as well)

Am i the only one that misses being challenged in a game??? Im all for evolution of a series. I fully enjoy that i have a character i care about now, i fully enjoy the action packed moments with hollywood grade cinematics.(Minus the god-awful quick time events) :mad2: But i cant stand when a game series loses what made it special in the first place. Why do video games have to hold the players hand throughout the ENTIRE game these days? I reminisce of the days where games challenged you...

So...with all of this being said.(Which, just to clarify, is entirely my OPINION) How many of you agree with me? Would you like to see the next TR game challenge you with diverse and challenging puzzles? Or do you disagree?

Here is to hoping CD realizes what the long time fans of the series want...:whistle:

Driber
6th Jan 2014, 19:27
Hi and welcome to the forum :wave:

To address your introduction about not seeing much uproar about the lack of puzzles - this has been discussed early on; when the game was released. After that, I guess the issue didn't pop up as much in discussion because it doesn't take any debate - we ALL want more puzzles. I can't think of any reason why anyone would NOT want more puzzles in a TR game, heh.

Take a look at the official TR10 wishlist and you'll see that "more puzzles" is right there at the top as one of the most wished for things :)

larafan25
6th Jan 2014, 22:54
I find it horrifying, the outrage that ensues pertaining to Lara's face, versus the complete apathy towards the lack of puzzle-solving. But that's a tired battle for many, so you can't blame em. http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg295/randomperson_2008/Emoticons/9f1de191_zps41caa2fa.gif (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/randomperson_2008/media/Emoticons/9f1de191_zps41caa2fa.gif.html)

I think a lot of fans are caught up in the lore and fascination with what is going to happen next, that they can't bring themselves to give a damn about anything else. I suppose certain tastes are acquired.

I would wish for more puzzle-solving in the next game, simply because I like it.

Though Tomb Raider has always had combat, and as long as it has one puzzle, it's not a disgrace, now is it? The concept is that anything can survive the modern era as long as it's looked at through a lens of oghj pfffff consumers or something. IDK.

Chocolate_shake
7th Jan 2014, 12:42
I agree that the game was lacking in this aspect . But the move to physics based puzzles was refreshing . I am sure they can expand them and integrate them into the core path better in the future.

The problem was that the level design was pretty simplistic . Even in TR1 , it is the level design , ie the way the rooms are interconnected that made them engaging/challenging . The actual puzzles were pretty simple stuff (in my opinion ofcourse.)

I recently played TR1 after I think 10 years . Having forgotten almost all of the game , I was waiting to "get stuck for days on a puzzle" but that did not happen at all . I tore through the game in about 4 or 5 sessions . That's not to say that the game was lacking (far from it ).

But I realised that it wasn't the individual rooms/puzzles that was mindblowing , it was the way the rooms were arranged/structured in the level which took the most thinking and "puzzling" FOR ME. The platforming was also cerebral and very precise and elegant

I also have to add that I loved the gunplay in TR1 and there was PLENTY of it . (Definitely not as much as say Legend or TR9 but still more than I was expecting from people's accounts/memories )

Lenimph
16th Jan 2014, 05:36
I agree that the game was lacking in this aspect . But the move to physics based puzzles was refreshing . I am sure they can expand them and integrate them into the core path better in the future.



I'm actually replaying Tomb Raider: Legend and there was definitely physics based puzzles... infact the first one is physics based. It's not entirely new to the franchise.

But I agree with the OP. Those puzzles we're just way too easy. I think they were just mostly focusing on making better combat (which they did and it was really needed) so they kind of neglected our precious giant tombs and challenging levels maps and puzzles.

Caesum
16th Jan 2014, 12:30
I can't think of any reason why anyone would NOT want more puzzles in a TR game, heh.
It seems though Crystal Dynamics don't want it in their "superb action game - IGN" (http://www.laracroft.tv/pictures/15/01/2014/tomb-raider-goty-covers/).

No, but seriously, I don't even get it how possibly an 'action-adventure' game could flop so much into 'action' or rather 'shooter' genre. I mean, I could understand it if it was mainly a shooter from the beginning, but Tomb Raider was always about tombs, puzzles, exploration. We don't have much of it left in the newest game now, do we? Two(three?) tombs, hundreds of WWII bunkers, laughable "puzzles" and no real exploration.

Metalrocks
16th Jan 2014, 14:15
and CD is aware of it (i guess they are) that we want more puzzles. as driber indicated, it was already mentioned last year once the game was out. but its good actually to bring it back again to show that people do care for puzzles.

Driber
16th Jan 2014, 16:12
It seems though Crystal Dynamics don't want it in their "superb action game - IGN" (http://www.laracroft.tv/pictures/15/01/2014/tomb-raider-goty-covers/).

No, but seriously, I don't even get it how possibly an 'action-adventure' game could flop so much into 'action' or rather 'shooter' genre. I mean, I could understand it if it was mainly a shooter from the beginning, but Tomb Raider was always about tombs, puzzles, exploration. We don't have much of it left in the newest game now, do we? Two(three?) tombs, hundreds of WWII bunkers, laughable "puzzles" and no real exploration.

I don't find anything on the page you linked to relating to what you said :scratch:

What do you mean "flop"? TR9 didn't flop, or did I miss a memo?

Yeah I agree, there is too little puzzle solving in TR9. Though in the game's defence, we probably *should* keep in mind that this was an origin story and that Lara wasn't a tomb raider yet in this game. So to have one game focus more heavily on combat can be forgiven, I think :)

But yeah, it deffo needs to be ramped up in the next one.

Classico
16th Jan 2014, 16:26
Simple answer, they don't trust Joe Average Gamer anymore, nor do most of the big titles out there today. Reason? The big gaming conglomerates set out to make everyone a gamer, and to a certain extent they have succeeded. Now the bar is set so low that many long-time gamers are overwhelmingly disappointed, bored or greatly insulted by the products being delivered. The gamer cannot be trusted to be left on their own anymore to roam freely and discover, to master more complex movement systems, to make their own decisions concerning where and when to go, and most of all to be allowed to fail. No, market testing eliminates all of that, they can't have the New Joe Average Gamer stymied even momentarily by an "obstacle".

larafan25
16th Jan 2014, 16:57
Indeed. Games are geared towards the last person likely to play em, and thus made so that these "players" can tolerate them.

At least, that's what it feels like.

pooopi.

Driber
16th Jan 2014, 17:24
Ah I see what you mean, Classico. You're arguing against hand-holding. In that case we are in full agreement - I hate hand-holding in gaming as well.

I can't stand helper icons and hint graphics popping up on the screen for all the time and I think it is a major drawback when games do not at least give the player the option to disable all that rubbish.

Incidentally, this is why I am still in favour of TR's classic advanced gameplay, compared to the modern dumbed-down jumping/grabbing/turning system.

Caesum
16th Jan 2014, 18:47
I don't find anything on the page you linked to relating to what you said :scratch:
On the cover it says "A superb action game", which is funny considering that TR2013 is an action-adventure game. Only shows how much adventure there really is in the game.


What do you mean "flop"? TR9 didn't flop, or did I miss a memo?
Let's say then TR has degraded from a once fine action-adventure game to mostly shooter.


Yeah I agree, there is too little puzzle solving in TR9. Though in the game's defence, we probably *should* keep in mind that this was an origin story and that Lara wasn't a tomb raider yet in this game. So to have one game focus more heavily on combat can be forgiven, I think :)
It doesn't make it less silly anyway. Would you, an inexperienced girl, kill hundreds of human and inhuman beings all by yourself? Of course, Lara is not an average girl, but then again that's not what Crystal Dynamics were trying to achieve when making a more "realistic" and "relatable" character.

Also, Lara is an archaeologist, not *put your favourite fighter name here*. She should be excavating ancient sites instead. A spree killer doesn't fit to that image.


But yeah, it deffo needs to be ramped up in the next one.
True, true.

Flintmelody
17th Jan 2014, 15:27
Let me start off by saying i do love it for its platforming, and engaging gameplay. And don't even get me started on the new Lara, she is an absolute DREAM; and for the first time in my opinion, we have a "real" Lara. But the reason i put off buying this one, was because i read reviews saying that old TR fans wont recognize it as a TR game...which, after playing for the first 2 hours was pretty clear to being true. Aside from the fact that we don't see the "badass lara" we have all come to know(which honestly doesn't bother me a bit, i love her new character) the thing that keeps this from feeling like a true TR title is the lack of ENGAGING PUZZLES. :

Good to see you here Senso and glad you have decided to get involved in the debates. With the 'badass' Lara aspect I was worried about too much emotion from Lara but that signiture fierceness comes through in the second half of the game.


Would you like to see the next TR game challenge you with diverse and challenging puzzles? Or do you disagree?

I totally agree with you on wanting harder and especially bigger puzzles. Having them in small optional rooms made them feel rather detached and the solutions were too one step. Maybe the puzzles could vary with difficulty level so those who don't want them can get through those sections quicker but it's clear most fans want a bit more challenge. Remembering how long the puzzles in the Greece levels took me in TR1, it was longer than the whole TR(2013) game. I would have liked more of the puzzles to break up the combat bits.

CyberP
17th Jan 2014, 19:24
We don't have much of it left in the newest game now, do we? Two(three?) tombs, hundreds of WWII bunkers, laughable "puzzles" and no real exploration.

Indeed. The new Tomb Raider is no Tomb Raider game, and it is a mediocre product to top it off. It's not a bad game but certainly mediocre. And I expect to see more of the same because the people in charge do not give a ****


Ah I see what you mean, Classico. You're arguing against hand-holding. In that case we are in full agreement - I hate hand-holding in gaming as well.

I can't stand helper icons and hint graphics popping up on the screen for all the time and I think it is a major drawback when games do not at least give the player the option to disable all that rubbish.

Incidentally, this is why I am still in favour of TR's classic advanced gameplay, compared to the modern dumbed-down jumping/grabbing/turning system.

Those are some refreshing opinions to see from a mod. :thumb:

nevillet
17th Jan 2014, 19:39
Also agree.

The pendulum swung too far away from puzzles and towards combat, it needs to swing back to a happy middle ground.

XylophoneDealers
18th Jan 2014, 21:42
I loved TR2013. But the "puzzles" were excruciatingly simple. I longed for a difficult tomb. The only tomb I did actually stumble upon that was somewhat difficult was the second tomb, the one with the wind. I strongly hope Crystal really listen to the fans and players and understand that making the puzzles solvable to all is not a good action to take. I hope they listen, and make the puzzles more difficult, or at least give us an option to do so.

Phaid_Min6Char_Sigh
21st Jan 2014, 15:06
I loved TR2013. But the "puzzles" were excruciatingly simple. I longed for a difficult tomb. The only tomb I did actually stumble upon that was somewhat difficult was the second tomb, the one with the wind. I strongly hope Crystal really listen to the fans and players and understand that making the puzzles solvable to all is not a good action to take. I hope they listen, and make the puzzles more difficult, or at least give us an option to do so.

Agreed, those "tombs" and "puzzles" were anything but, I found them quite insulting really...
There are three things I HATED in the reboot:
- the plot, secondary characters, writing in general
- the lack of puzzles
- omnipresent shooting sections.
I don't have much faith in Crystal fixing these glaring issues to be honest, but you never know...

XylophoneDealers
21st Jan 2014, 17:04
There are three things I HATED in the reboot:
- the plot, secondary characters, writing in general
- the lack of puzzles
- omnipresent shooting sections.


The plot and writing is subjective, I loved it all, despite maybe being somewhat predictable (but maybe that's because I watched too many videos before release :( )

Puzzles will be fixed, as many reviewers have mentioned the issue. And CD are good for listening to the reviewers and especially the fans.

I thought the shooting was fresh and perfect and always felt fun. But they need to balance it out with puzzles and exploration.