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larafan25
15th Dec 2013, 18:21
Of Tomb Raider's pillars of gameplay (platforming, puzzle-solving and combat), which do you think should be the main focus?

I've made the poll so that you may select multiple options, such as Platforming and Puzzle-solving or Puzzle-solving and Combat, etc... If you want to be extremely specific, you might choose the Other Balance option and explain your recipe for Tomb Raider's gameplay.

Vote and discuss it.

a_big_house
15th Dec 2013, 18:27
Puzzle & Platforming

Rai
15th Dec 2013, 18:29
What happened to exploration? I realise that to explore, there needs to be platforming, but I'd have put exploration as the term used. I always thought of it as exploring - Lara exploring the world in order to find what she's looking for. *shrug:

Anyhoo, I'd have an even split between platforming/puzzles and a smaller percentage for combat. Perhaps exploring/platforming should come in slightly higher than the others.

larafan25
15th Dec 2013, 18:31
What happened to exploration? I realise that to explore, there needs to be platforming, but I'd have put exploration as the term used. I always though of it as exploring - Lara exploring the world in order to find what she's looking for. *shrug:

Anyhoo, I'd have an even split between platforming/puzzles and a smaller percentage for combat. Perhaps exploring/platforming should come in slightly higher than the others.

I consider exploration a main pillar, though it's different from the other pillars because exploration is less crafted. It's the body of Tomb Raider, we don't want combat in a straight line, we don't want puzzles in a straight line and we don't want platforming in a straight line. Exploration is essentially the wrapping of everything within Tomb Raider, and thus I felt it did not need to be one of the choices as it essentially consumes them all.

Personally, no matter what I'm doing in Tomb Raider, I want and expect it to be non-linear and dynamic.

MissBrandy
15th Dec 2013, 18:34
I miss the ''All of the above'' option ..I cannot pick just one

Edit: didn't knew it was multiple options allowed :D

Rai
15th Dec 2013, 18:34
^Fair enough. Thanks for explaining your reasoning. :thumb:

@MissBrandy, there is the 'Even split' option, which covers your choice, I think.

larafan25
15th Dec 2013, 18:35
I miss the ''All of the above'' option ..I cannot pick just one

That would be the "Even Split" option. :D

MissBrandy
15th Dec 2013, 18:38
That would be the "Even Split" option. :D

sorry ...didn't knew the meaning of that option ... I just pick 3 at the same time and it's ok I think :D :) tnx :)

@Rai: thanks.

VaBanes
15th Dec 2013, 18:44
Hmmm... this poll kind of doesn't work the way it should, imo.

MissBrandy, for example voted for all 3 what is kind of equal with the "Even split" choice, yet it looks like someone is more interested in combat than in the others...

larafan25
15th Dec 2013, 18:45
I'd argue that it's still accurate, because it also looks like someone is more interested in platforming and puzzle-solving. It still affects the balance in the same way, I think.

RybatGrimes
15th Dec 2013, 18:47
The main focus should be Platforming, and Puzzles, with a significantly less focus on combat, but I'd still like it to be present.

nevillet
15th Dec 2013, 19:05
Tomb Raider should be exploration, platforming and puzzle-solving, with combat added for emphasis, story-building and spice.

To put it another way, if exploration and puzzle-solving are the main meal, combat should be the seasoning.

To extend this analogy, if combat is seasoning then the last TR was a big plate of salt with a very small meat'n'veg on the side.

Jurre
15th Dec 2013, 20:17
All of it, plus exploration, story telling, character development, upgrading stuff. There's no reason why this deserves more attention than that, and if there are things that are underdeveloped they might as well be left out - like Underworld would have been better off without the lousy combat i.m.o.

Rai
16th Dec 2013, 13:19
All of it, plus exploration, story telling, character development, upgrading stuff. There's no reason why this deserves more attention than that, and if there are things that are underdeveloped they might as well be left out - like Underworld would have been better off without the lousy combat.

Pretty much what he said ^ :p. The focus should be for the game to be a well rounded experience. Lara Croft explores the location (level/hub) in order to make a discovery of some sort. Discovering temples and tombs, solving a mythical mystery, perhaps finding an artefact. To enable her to do this, she will platform the entire area, solve puzzles, search for clues and there will be enemies to overcome.

So I chose the Even Split option.

pirate1802
16th Dec 2013, 13:22
They should totally focus on Lara and Sam's relationship ofcourse.

MissBrandy
16th Dec 2013, 14:02
They should totally focus on Lara and Sam's relationship ofcourse.

:lol::lol:

Thumb up for this :thumb::thumb:

:lol:

Metalrocks
16th Dec 2013, 14:35
They should totally focus on Lara and Sam's relationship ofcourse.

count me in :D:thumb:

as many have stated, puzzle solving, exploring and most of all, story.




and of course lara and sams relationship :D

VaBanes
16th Dec 2013, 15:01
They should totally focus on Lara and Sam's relationship ofcourse.
Totally! :lol:

I'm actually one of those who care much more about story, characters and especially storytelling than about gameplay. ^^

pirate1802
16th Dec 2013, 15:05
I'm actually one of those who care much more about story, characters and especially storytelling than about gameplay. ^^

Blasphemer, NotTrueFan, filthy casual.. take your pick. :vlol:

MissBrandy
16th Dec 2013, 15:08
Blasphemer, NotTrueFan, filthy casual.. take your pick. :vlol:

So by now we are 4 blasphemers in here :D

''Lara&Sam relationship'' could be one option in that poll :thumb:

Metalrocks
16th Dec 2013, 15:15
So by now we are 4 blasphemers in here :D

''Lara&Sam relationship'' could be one option in that poll :thumb:

to be on the save side:
"Lara&Sam in a relationship" ;)

@vabanes
of course the characters. they have to be better explained. how could i have forgotten that :mad2:

Phaid_Min6Char_Sigh
17th Dec 2013, 12:39
(Skill-dependent) Platforming & puzzle-solving.

No contest. I'm glad the combat has been vastly improved upon in the reboot and it felt great, but the whole game revolved around it, platforming was too easy and there were NO puzzles to speak of (no, those few which even a monkey wouldn't have troubles solving simply don't count) - TR played like Uncharted, not a Tomb Raider game.

Lest I forget - Crystal, please create proper tombs to explore next time, please. Those tiny corridors in TR 2013 were beyond insulting.
Storytelling, writing and characters which don't SUCK would be nice to have, too.

@pirate1802, MissBrandy and Metalrocks
Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

a_big_house
17th Dec 2013, 13:07
^ I'd have voted for a Lara & Sam pillar :D

MissBrandy
17th Dec 2013, 20:40
@pirate1802, MissBrandy and Metalrocks
Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

You forgot VaBanes :lol: ...but yep... I think I'm serious about adding this S&L pillar plus Puzzles, platforming and combat :D:D

Rai
17th Dec 2013, 20:50
Sam and Lara as a gameplay pillar. How does that work....actually, don't answer that. I understand peeps like that pairing, but theoretically speaking, if CD chose to use that in the story, it would be just that...as part of the story. Story does play a big part in the games, but it's not a gameplay pillar. And Sam and Lara shouldn't be a pillar on its own. It's Tomb Raider not some relationship rpg. Geez people, get a grip :p :lol:

and it's a whopping IF at that, with luck and if CD have sense.

Jurre
17th Dec 2013, 21:39
Maybe the starting question should be a little more specified:

- Do you mean what pillars a Tomb Raider game should focus on - period?
- Or do you mean which pillars were lacking in TR9 and should be focussed more on in the future without neglecting the other ones?

Because I have a feeling that some people interpret the question in the second way.
Me, I think the strength of TR9 lies in it's diversity in gameplay: it's not solely a shooter, a platformer, a puzzle game or an RPG, it's all of those things. I believe it was the philosophy of legendary filmmaker Louis B. Mayer to have an as full as possible package of entertainment.
So that is why I vote for even split - but I do agree that puzzles were kinda meager. I know the guy from the question session said that they wanted to reach a wider audience - of course, but that is why you made the tombs optional. With the puzzles being essentially sidequests there is no reason not to make them really hardcore for the puzzle enthousiasts.

a_big_house
17th Dec 2013, 23:11
Sam and Lara as a gameplay pillar. How does that work....actually, don't answer that. I understand peeps like that pairing, but theoretically speaking, if CD chose to use that in the story, it would be just that...as part of the story.

They could depend on each other like Ellie and Joel from that one game that I never played


It's Tomb Raider not some relationship rpg. Geez people, get a grip :p :lol:


Well why the hell not!?! :lol:

It's more like a freaking combat simulator now...

:D

pirate1802
18th Dec 2013, 03:58
They could depend on each other like Ellie and Joel from that one game that I never played

That makes two of us.

The Two of Us

BridgetFisher
18th Dec 2013, 05:01
I vote platforming and puzzle solving, I really miss how the old tomb raiders were complete puzzles mixed with platforming with action in other parts. The visuals were SO INCREDIBLE!! those are what made tomb raider lucrative as an IP, not the edgy try hard shaky camera, no guns, and no tombs thing. In fact all of that had nothing to do with tomb raider, personally I dont even acknowledge the last game as a tomb raider game.

For combat, since Lara is an adventurer, it would be nice if the enemies were more creative than say an out of work fisherman, or dockworker like we saw in TR2013. Having more fantastic enemies like white tigers, mummies, demons would be more welcome for an adventure game, unless maybe the new Tomb Raider is supposed to be boring and bland? Guess it depends which way the devs are going, boring and bland, or adventurous. Id choose Adventure since Lara Croft for me is an adventurer.

_Love2Raid_
19th Dec 2013, 13:50
platforming - 40%
puzzle solving - 35%
combat - 25%

I think that would be nice. Kind of like TR Underworld. Platforming includes running/walking around, climbing, jumping, swimming, dodging traps etc. Puzzles should have a larger scale, so not many small ones in a row but a big one with several smaller ones inside, instead (if you know what I mean :scratch:). The three pillars should be present in some form at all times (except for combat, there can be times where there are no enemies to fight, that's why it's only 25%). So not like this:

1) you enter an area, huge fight begins (combat)
2) area cleared, time to solve a puzzle (puzzle solving)
3) make your way to the next area (platforming)

When it's done like that, the game becomes repetitive and it will feel forced.

Metalrocks
19th Dec 2013, 14:10
platforming - 40%
puzzle solving - 35%
combat - 25%

I think that would be nice. Kind of like TR Underworld. Platforming includes running/walking around, climbing, jumping, swimming, dodging traps etc. Puzzles should have a larger scale, so not many small ones in a row but a big one with several smaller ones inside, instead (if you know what I mean :scratch:). The three pillars should be present in some form at all times (except for combat, there can be times where there are no enemies to fight, that's why it's only 25%). So not like this:

1) you enter an area, huge fight begins (combat)
2) area cleared, time to solve a puzzle (puzzle solving)
3) make your way to the next area (platforming)

When it's done like that, the game becomes repetitive and it will feel forced.

which reminds me: they should have hidden objects as we had with the LAU series. especially when you have to find the gold object, you had to solve a hard puzzle to reach it. i still remember how long i was sitting in legend in the first level to reach this damn gold object. but i was worth it and it was fun. :D
i missed that in TR9. i rather have less combat to make sure we have plenty of puzzles to solve.

larafan25
19th Dec 2013, 17:03
Indeed. I miss there being a little puzzle to get to the relics and gold rewards.

nevillet
19th Dec 2013, 17:21
platforming - 40%
puzzle solving - 35%
combat - 25%


Yes.


http://blog.lesroches.edu/wp-content/uploads/keep_calm_and_say_yes__by_pikachu1452-d5bpojs.png

Jurre
19th Dec 2013, 17:39
platforming - 40%
puzzle solving - 35%
combat - 25%


What's missing from this though is what we're doing for most of the time in TR9: which is basicly walking around collecting salvage and looking for collectables. At least that is what I'm spending most time at.

35% puzzles is way too much for me: I am really not interested in opening one gate after the other like in Anniversary. +/- 10 tombs with Anniversary style puzzles in a game with the length of that of TR9 is good for me.

Daftvirgin
19th Dec 2013, 21:04
Puzzling and combat imo.

Error96_
22nd Dec 2013, 01:33
Platforming with exploration so it's not just a straight path from A to B is my main pillar of TR. I would like to see more of platforming and puzzles in the next game than is this one. Combat is okay but there was too much of it in TR2013 and I prefer finding Lara in a vast tomb with tons of places to traverse.

Psychomorph
22nd Dec 2013, 04:29
I would describe Tomb Raider with a single word, that is "Exploration". Exploration incorporates platforming to get around, puzzle solving to get forward, combat to get through and all this is more or less an even split.

The reason for you to be there is specified by the story, like when you have to find an artifact, which offers a solution to prevent some bad happening from happening and on the way you look around for other goodies and information on the plot.

At the end explanations don't matter, because you could say TR2013 had all these things, yet it wasn't quite right, it's all about implementation and layout.

Elliot Kane
24th Dec 2013, 12:54
Emphasis on exploration, puzzle solving & platforming, with combat a distant fourth.

I definitely think exploration is a pillar, too.

JessyBrody
27th Dec 2013, 14:01
I voted for "Equal split". Maybe less combat for the next game, although I think the problem with combat isn't the amount of it but the type of combat.
The fights were too similar. Walk through an area -> an army appears -> kill all of them -> keep walking. Boring. :p

AdobeArtist
27th Dec 2013, 20:42
They should totally focus on Lara and Sam's relationship ofcourse.


:lol::lol:

Thumb up for this :thumb::thumb:

:lol:


count me in :D:thumb:

as many have stated, puzzle solving, exploring and most of all, story.




and of course lara and sams relationship :D


^ I'd have voted for a Lara & Sam pillar :D

I'll throw in my ballot for this :D

But fellas, how can you forget that other important pillar? Variable attire? Especially sophisticated dresses and provocative swimwear? I mean considering how this would only enhance the relationship ;) :naughty: :whistle: :o

Metalrocks
28th Dec 2013, 01:06
I'll throw in my ballot for this :D

But fellas, how can you forget that other important pillar? Variable attire? Especially sophisticated dresses and provocative swimwear? I mean considering how this would only enhance the relationship ;) :naughty: :whistle: :o

:lol::lol:

sam appears in a bikini in front of lara.
"do you like what you see?"
"sam, what are you doing?"
"trying to get your attention."
"oh sam, you sure succeeded beyond my wildest imagination that you got my attention."
"lets get wild then."
"good idea. i know some tombs in peru....."
sam jumps at lara and kisses her passionately. tearing laras cloth off.
"i mean this kind of wild lara."
"oh my god, sam. love exploring new things with you."

AdobeArtist
28th Dec 2013, 01:27
Well if you ever read The Beginning comic from certain retailer pre-orders, we have it as established fact (By Rihanna herself no less) that Sam does have a predilection for skimpy bikinis ;) :naughty: :whistle:

Rai
28th Dec 2013, 01:36
@above, I think I just lost my dinner. *shakes head*





:p

VaBanes
28th Dec 2013, 01:37
@AdobeARTIST
Just wanted to say the same. :D

Are you actually supporting this ship or is this all just big sarcasm? xD

AdobeArtist
28th Dec 2013, 02:00
@above, I think I just lost my dinner. *shakes head*





:p

Sam clad in a red bikini. You lose your lunch.

I worry about you :hmm:

yes yes, I know you're joking by your emoticon there ;) :rasp:


@AdobeARTIST
Just wanted to say the same. :D

Are you actually supporting this ship or is this all just big sarcasm? xD

Asking of I support it? Did you never read my fanfiction in the Lara & Sam thread? (TR9 board) ;) :whistle:

Something else I've been wondering for a while now, but when did fan fiction (or fan dreaming) become "shipping"?? :scratch::scratch: I mean when I hear that word the first thing that comes to mind is Fedex and UPS :p :lol:

VaBanes
28th Dec 2013, 02:14
Asking of I support it? Did you never read my fanfiction in the Lara & Sam thread? (TR9 board) ;) :whistle:

Something else I've been wondering for a while now, but when did fan fiction (or fan dreaming) become "shipping"?? :scratch::scratch: I mean when I hear that word the first thing that comes to mind is Fedex and UPS :p :lol:
Nope, I haven't. Maybe I will if you send me a Link (geeklyworldnews.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/tp_art_link021.jpg). :p :D You know, you can show your support in the recently updated TR10 wishlist? Just saying... xD

I have no idea. I have never used that word before until I've read it in some comments on deviantArt. Anyway... YO-HO! :D
You think this whole thing gets sped up if we use premium overnight-express?

AdobeArtist
28th Dec 2013, 02:33
Alrighty then, took quite a while to find it, being 10 pages from the end of the thread where I last posted this. This is actually something I was writing over weeks, a chapter at a time, as the story grew from my initial concept.

But here's the page with all the latest content (post 1803). Feel free to comment/quote in that topic, as it could probably use a bump by now ;)

Oh and I should advise, some of the chapters ain't for the faint of heart ;) :whistle:

Lara & Sam thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=134386&page=73)

Metalrocks
28th Dec 2013, 02:33
Well if you ever read The Beginning comic from certain retailer pre-orders, we have it as established fact (By Rihanna herself no less) that Sam does have a predilection for skimpy bikinis ;) :naughty: :whistle:

lol. i dint know that. dint read any comic from TR. not even the prequel. does it mean we will see sam in future games in a bikini trying to get laras attention or just in comics? :whistle:

lol. its funny to see our stories again we both wrote.

AdobeArtist
28th Dec 2013, 02:37
lol. i dint know that. dint read any comic from TR. not even the prequel. does it mean we will see sam in future games in a bikini trying to get laras attention or just in comics? :whistle:

Here ya go and like I said, this is cannon :D

width=400

width=400

VaBanes
28th Dec 2013, 02:43
Thanks! I guess I will take a look at it later the day. It's already 3:43 am here. ^^

Nice pictures you have there. Is it just me or do they actually look like a couple in these? I guess it is just me... and everyone else who wants them being together. xD

AdobeArtist
28th Dec 2013, 02:47
Thanks! I guess I will take a look at it later the day. It's already 3:43 am here. ^^

Nice pictures you have there. Is it just me or do they actually look like a couple in these? I guess it is just me... and everyone else who wants them being together. xD

lol, it's pretty well understood that Rihanna is depicting them as best friends there, and that's it :p

Metalrocks
28th Dec 2013, 02:48
nice.:thumb:

im just wondering where i can get this comic. since i wanted to read it one way or another.

best friends. yes. but more would be still interesting. since she stated her self that part of her would love to make lara gay.

VaBanes
28th Dec 2013, 02:56
lol, it's pretty well understood that Rihanna is depicting them as best friends there, and that's it :p
Haha, I know. But even if there not meant to be more than friends in TR9, I think she/they intentionally kept this possibility open. :D

And Metalrocks, the art of this comic looks much better in those pictures than it actually is. The first few pages were great but then... (my opinion^^).

Metalrocks
28th Dec 2013, 02:59
Haha, I know. But even if there not meant to be more than friends in TR9, I think she/they intentionally kept this possibility open. :D

and it sure would be nice if they could imply some hints in the next title and maybe one day they end up together.

damn, back to work now.

Jurre
28th Dec 2013, 03:00
I'm not saying that I am a Rembrandt but that artwork looks rather simplistic to me. They better not let the game-stories and comic book-stories intertwine too much or shove the storyparts too much into the comic direction...

VaBanes
28th Dec 2013, 03:03
I'm not saying that I am a Rembrandt but that artwork looks rather simplistic to me. They better not let the game-stories and comic book-stories intertwine too much or shove the storyparts too much into the comic direction...
I guess this first comic was some sort of a "small bonus" rather than a serious part of the story.
I think the next ones Gail Simone is writing will be more elaborated.

Metalrocks
28th Dec 2013, 04:55
I guess this first comic was some sort of a "small bonus" rather than a serious part of the story.
I think the next ones Gail Simone is writing will be more elaborated.

it was more a small preview to what was going on the endurance before the island took over. still would have been an interesting read though since the characters werent really that well described in the game.
now when i look at these comics strips, it sure explained a bit more about sam what kind of person she is. thats something that should have been showed in the intro instead of the turning point trailer scene that doesnt really explain anything about characters and who should care for.
thats why i hope that in the next title they will explain more about the characters we will encounter. especially sam needs more explanation what made them such good friends.

AdobeArtist
28th Dec 2013, 06:14
nice.:thumb:

im just wondering where i can get this comic. since i wanted to read it one way or another.



I got my copy with my Futureshop (associated with Bestbuy) pre-order. I know some other retailers also had it available, but all as preorder bundles. Not sure of other ways to acquire it other than possibly e-bay.

Actually if you can find the entire book online (I only found a few pages looking for the bikini references) it would be better than reading the physical book. Turns out, as a pack in with the collectors edition tin, it's really small (4.5 x 6.75"), and the lettering itself was unbelievably tiny. I actually needed a magnifying glass to read the story, lol.


I guess this first comic was some sort of a "small bonus" rather than a serious part of the story.
I think the next ones Gail Simone is writing will be more elaborated.

Not sure what you mean by "serious", but even as a small bonus, it is an official part of the new reboot story, chronicling the events leading up to boarding the endurance, and shedding more background into the circumstances that lead all the cast into signing up for the voyage.

For example, you see Sam in a bikini because she wasn't actually part of the crew at the time, and was only visiting Lara before she was set to depart, just a final good bye. And while at it, taking the opportunity to get some much needed sun bathing done, heh.

But then certain developments facilitated her joining the crew for the expedition, that she wasn't originally meant to be on, details I won't get into to avoid spoilers. ;)

Metalrocks
28th Dec 2013, 11:53
I got my copy with my Futureshop (associated with Bestbuy) pre-order. I know some other retailers also had it available, but all as preorder bundles. Not sure of other ways to acquire it other than possibly e-bay.

Actually if you can find the entire book online (I only found a few pages looking for the bikini references) it would be better than reading the physical book. Turns out, as a pack in with the collectors edition tin, it's really small (4.5 x 6.75"), and the lettering itself was unbelievably tiny. I actually needed a magnifying glass to read the story, lol.


i see.
it wasnt included with my pre order at EB games in australia. we got the EU version of the game.

i will check out ebay and see if its there. maybe even a bigger version of it. but i know what you mean with small letters. when i got sanctum (game) it contained a comic as well and also there it was hard to read. shame that it wasnt really anything special and informative.

not like blacklist were the CE had at least a nearly 100 page comic and it was pretty big as well and comfortable to read.

edit:
well, i checked out ebay and there is nothing. if someone else knows a site where i can purchase it i would like to know about it.

Rai
28th Dec 2013, 14:15
^I've ordered a copy form ebay (UK). I dunno what size it is. Maybe I took the last one. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif

Metalrocks
28th Dec 2013, 16:24
^I've ordered a copy form ebay (UK). I dunno what size it is. Maybe I took the last one. http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/mischievous.gif

now i see it as well. my ebay was still automatically bound to australia. so i removed "au" at the end and now now things are showing up. some in canada and US and also one in the UK. teh one from the UK is a hard cover and its 7" x 4.5", for nearly 6.60 USD.
i just wait until i get my visa card from hong kong, since i dont want to use my AUS card all the time to pay.

AdobeArtist
28th Dec 2013, 16:50
How do you get a Hong Kong visa card?? :hmm:

And when you do get your copy, have your magnifying glass ready ;) :p

Metalrocks
28th Dec 2013, 17:01
How do you get a Hong Kong visa card?? :hmm:

And when you do get your copy, have your magnifying glass ready ;) :p

because i live in hong kong. the location i have entered is not made up. i moved back over a month ago.

once i have it, i will order it. ;)

AdobeArtist
28th Dec 2013, 17:05
ah, from your previous posts I thought you lived in Australia. So I guess you won't be going down under with Lara after all, huh? ;)

Metalrocks
28th Dec 2013, 17:17
ah, from your previous posts I thought you lived in Australia. So I guess you won't be going down under with Lara after all, huh? ;)

which i used to but not anymore. australia doenst like people who have overseas experience so i ended up only with crappy jobs and my wife with non. not really a good way of living.
so lara has to come here. :D or preferably sam since i like asian girls more. :D

pidipidi39
28th Dec 2013, 20:33
I actually would stick with the balance TR9 had... maybe I would add bigger hubs and more puzzles. But I love the balance of the new direction :)

What TR10 needs to increase is the story in my opinion.

AdobeArtist
28th Dec 2013, 21:25
I actually would stick with the balance TR9 had... maybe I would add bigger hubs and more puzzles. But I love the balance of the new direction :)

What TR10 needs to increase is the story in my opinion.

Not just more puzzle but deeper & challenging puzzles. It's an issue of both quantity and quality. :)

Jurre
28th Dec 2013, 23:36
4 hubs the size of the shantytown, the same amount of non-hub segments, and 10+ tombs with Anniversary style puzzles. That would be perfect for me...

VaBanes
28th Dec 2013, 23:58
I was actually fine with the amount of tombs in TR9 yet it would have been better if some more weren't just optional and integrated in the main story.

Jurre
29th Dec 2013, 00:11
That in my opinion was one of the best ideas they had: this way the puzzle audience could have their Anniversary puzzles (had they actually put Anniversary-style puzzles there...) while the mainstream action crowd could skip them and never have to be stuck and look up the solution in a walkthrough, which is really an off put for people who don't enjoy being stuck.

So: excellent idea, that for some reason they didn't take advantage of at all really...

AdobeArtist
29th Dec 2013, 00:24
I was actually fine with the amount of tombs in TR9 yet it would have been better if they weren't just optional and integrated in the main story.

I had no problem with them being "optional". let's be honest, so long as they are there, you just know any player is going to explore them. ;) My issue was the scale of them, that there wasn't that much to explore, and no challenge to them at all.

I mean every one of them was a single chamber, no corridors or connecting chambers, hardly anything in the way of platforms and ledges to exercise Lara's acrobatic skills with. The fact that every finishing goal spot is right within eye sight of the entrance is just insulting.

And like I said, none of them offered any challenge at all. The puzzles were easy as crap to solve, maybe in some cases it was minimal trial and error to get the timing right (like that tomb in the wind tunnel).

The only exception to this was the Tomb of the Lost Adventurer, which had more sizable space to traverse and multiple steps taken to solve the puzzle to the final goal. But of course this was only offered as DLC.

In the next game, I really expect (make that demand :p ) to see more depth to the tombs and puzzle challenge; that we should have to really explore around to discover the way out, and for the puzzles to make us think, "just how do I get across there, how do I overcome that obstacle, which maneuver should Lara do to navigate the ledges?".

Don't disappoint me CrystalD, don't disappoint me :poke::poke:

Rai
29th Dec 2013, 01:12
The amount of tombs isn't the problem, it's what they consist of that really makes a difference. Two or three expansive tombs with challenging puzzles and traps make for a better tomb raider feel than 10 or more little rooms with 2 minute wonder puzzles. I liked the idea behind the optional tombs, and on the most part they served as fun little escapes from the rush rush shoot your way through of the main paths. The main plot path is still in need of a decent temple or tomb area to explore and puzzle over. Optional tombs can still be used for finding extras. And CD need to keep the tomb areas combat free, imo. The way leading to the tomb or temple, fine, if there are enemies out there hell-bent on stopping Lara then some resistance is inevitable. Even in areas that are open like in Barkhang Monestry there was minimal combat, which, thanks to the monks could be avoided, but in some areas the place was so huge, you could still explore in relative quiet. A large temple could be similar to that, but the main tomb or maybe catacombs underneath could be totally isolated.

For optional tombs, I'd like it and be perfectly happy if the first few were just like those in TR'13, but as you go further into the game, they get bigger and more complex, but remain smaller than main path ones. Maybe you could have smaller ones that unlock into larger ones, maybe even have one that leads to the main temple, and the *optional* tomb in this case was a sort of false tomb, something confuse potential thieves. But you know, Lara being Lara could just be able to figure out how to get passed it and then realise its fakery and find the real tomb.

Metalrocks
29th Dec 2013, 04:29
agreed. having tombs in the main path to avoid even any confrontations would be nice and i like your idea as well with some fake tombs finding the real tomb later on.

have to agree with adobe as well that the tombs were really too simple. just one big room with a very clear indication what you have to do. i spend less then 10min in them and solved the puzzle. the lost adventure tomb on the other hand was more challenging and you had to find different ways which was more fun.

Sophiafan
15th Jan 2014, 16:02
I have always liked platformers the best so would like that to stay main focus like in TR1/A with lots of traps, jumps and huge buildings and towers to scale. I could do with far less combat but puzzles (and I mean much bigger than the TR2013 tombs) are also something that I think really fits in well with a TR.

hirogen
26th Jan 2014, 19:48
The pc version should have the same controls again, not the controls as introduced in the "legend" version, they are impossible to play, but the controls as in all other versions.

J.Maverick
17th Feb 2014, 22:03
Exploration and platforming are often mutually-exclusive, but I'd love to see some quiet time with Lara just hanging out in the mountains, looking for stuff. Loved the overhauled climbing mechanics in the new game, so yeah, use the heck out of that.

Puzzles, sure, but I'd like to see a grander portrayal of puzzles, similar to what I played in Anniversary. Your brain work doesn't just open one door, you build up to the opening of the big door by progressing through smaller areas... just has a nice feeling of progression.

My only trouble with puzzles is, they're inherently linear... once you've solved it, it's solved. Wouldn't mind seeing some variety; even stealth puzzles. Find the way to sneak through an area, or even clear it out, one baddy at a time, is fun brain work, and is more dynamic than the static lock.

The new gameplay is a joy, so I say use it. Combat and stealth should, in moderation, work in conjunction with the more traditional environmental puzzles. That way when you replay, completing puzzles you've already solved will remain compelling.

NikNak513
24th Feb 2014, 04:40
Why can't I vote on any of these polls? :confused:

J.Maverick
24th Feb 2014, 05:20
Why can't I vote on any of these polls? :confused:I think there's a post count prerequisite.

Not a bad idea, actually; keeps out the one-hit-wonders.