PDA

View Full Version : Why make the graphics look so bad?



teh roxxors
14th Dec 2013, 01:25
Was it a conscious design decision to make most of the game look like it was released in 2000? Was the game's budget unusually tight? Is the look of the game indicative of console platform constraints?

I'll not buy another Deus Ex game that does look and perform like a modern release. If I appreciated anachronism, I'd still be playing Doom.

Serendip1ty
14th Dec 2013, 01:57
Was it a conscious design decision to make most of the game look like it was released in 2000? Was the game's budget unusually tight? Is the look of the game indicative of console platform constraints?

I'll not buy another Deus Ex game that does look and perform like a modern release. If I appreciated anachronism, I'd still be playing Doom.


At the time they made the decision to use the Crystal Dynamics engine (CDC engine), originally developed by another Eidos studio. So it's an internal engine. Reason is simple: They wanted to develop this engine more & share it back with the rest of the company. For other projects they have also been using the Unreal engine. The CDC engine is still used though. The most recent iteration of this engine is in the game Tomb Raider.

CyberP
14th Dec 2013, 01:58
:rolleyes:

Berr
14th Dec 2013, 08:36
DXHR is a gorgeous game that has its own artistic style on display everywhere. It was released 2 years ago, and had graphics that perhaps were a couple of years dated technically. I pity anyone who would actually find DXHR graphics an impediment to enjoying the game.

Perhaps you played the original Deus Ex game, which did in fact come out around 2000?

Jito463
14th Dec 2013, 10:18
Perhaps the OP is referring to the graphical bugs/inconsistencies in the DC version. Personally, I didn't even notice until I came here. I guess the graphics weren't important enough for me to focus on, then again I still do complete runs of the original Deus Ex from time to time.

teh roxxors
14th Dec 2013, 11:36
My confusion stems from the fact that some parts of the game look great, while others look like, well, crap. Even for 2011, some of the game looks monumentally bad, without any obvious reason.

It's not that the engine is incapable of supporting modern effects or realistic, high-resolution textures. There are moments in the game when we can see the upper range of the engine simply by looking at certain NPCs (but most generic NPCs look like they stepped out of the original game). The artwork on some elements of the game world can be fairly convincing.

Right now, I'm in upper Hengsha, and am struck by how flat and lifeless the textures are. I've not seen a game look like this since the early 2000's.

When the range of visual quality is so wide, it is extremely jarring. Rage is another example of this.

The developer obviously lavished a few select parts of the game with extra attention, while neglecting the wider game world. I know what went wrong with Rage. I'd like to understand what went wrong with DE:HR.

CyberP
14th Dec 2013, 11:48
The developer obviously lavished a few select parts of the game with extra attention, while neglecting the wider game world. I know what went wrong with Rage. I'd like to understand what went wrong with DE:HR.

DX:HR has far bigger problems than ******* graphics. Complain about something relevant or not at all.

I know you have played the original Human Revolution release, which looked fine when it comes to fidelity.

teh roxxors
14th Dec 2013, 14:26
LOL. You can have the final say, if that makes you feel better.

CyberP
14th Dec 2013, 15:46
Thank you ;)

Berr
14th Dec 2013, 21:50
Your suggestion that DXHR looks like a game from 2000 is insultingly ridiculous. Do you actually remember what games looked like in 2000?

teh roxxors
14th Dec 2013, 23:13
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/teh-roxxors/Startrekeliteforce_zpse513381e.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/teh-roxxors/uglydeusex_zps127efce7.jpg

Indeed I do. Shocking how little has changed.

CyberP
15th Dec 2013, 02:06
Ignore the graphics whore above, let's have a party! :D

jW496fNKzKc

Jito463
15th Dec 2013, 05:24
Not every game has to push the boundaries of graphics card capabilities. In fact, prioritizing graphics over gameplay or story elements can and is a detriment. It's far more important to allocate resources to making the game better, rather than make it look better. Otherwise, it just ends up being a fancy tech demo, not a real game.

teh roxxors
15th Dec 2013, 19:12
I don't think you guys are understanding what I've said, because you are taking it personally and allowing yourselves to get angry over nothing.

I said that the engine is capable of rendering modern-quality graphics and does so throughout the game. However, there are many, many areas of the game that never received sufficient attention. The result is a disjointed product and, at times, a jarring gaming experience.

So I asked if this stemmed from budget or console restraints—or both. I didn't say your kids were ugly.

CyberP
15th Dec 2013, 19:16
Give examples of this inconsistency of graphical fidelity. Screenshots.

Perhaps the fidelity is inconsistent (not that I've noticed, but I pay attention to what I believe to be far more important stuff first and foremost), perhaps not, but I think you just want DX:HR to be a content-less tech demo and are whining about very, very minor issues, if they even exist that is.

"I'll not buy another Deus Ex game that does look and perform like a modern release."

Perform like a modern game? So you want it to be 4 hours long? Entirely linear? Poorly directed set pieces galore? Minimalistic and easy gameplay? Weak story shoved down your throat?

And yes, I know by perform you mean graphically (again).

When I bash DX:HR I am doing so in comparison to old school classics, but if we compare it to modern 'AAA' games it's almost an untouchable ******* masterpiece, because things really are that bad these days. That's all slight exaggeration, but you graphics whores are no worse than achievement hunters :p

That's not to say we shouldn't strive for and even demand better graphics, but when the core design is gone/broken I think we should focus on getting that back/fixed first before we whine about graphics.

Besides last time people wanted graphics they got the Directors Cut. heh.

JCpies
15th Dec 2013, 20:01
Eidos isn't responsible for your crappy rig.

Berr
15th Dec 2013, 21:54
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/teh-roxxors/Startrekeliteforce_zpse513381e.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/teh-roxxors/uglydeusex_zps127efce7.jpg

Indeed I do. Shocking how little has changed.

Apparently this is supposed to support your position?

What kind of graphics whore are you? Do you not notice the lack of textures or colour in the '2000' picture? The DXHR picture looks far better, with more detail in models and textures.

But since you decided Star Trek Voyager - Elite Force is an appropriate representation of 2000, lets try another comparison screenshot:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ltt7x66yau4png/ku-xlarge.png

http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/cayman-2/dxhr.jpg

Only blind person would confuse the eras these screenshots came from.


It's amusing that you are surprised we aren't engaging your question. You need to refrain from hyperbole and false assertions in the framing of questions if you want them to be taken seriously.

Your initial post is like saying 'Your momma so fat, is that because she never exercises or eats cakes all day?' when in fact momma is 65kg. It doesn't matter if she exercises or how many cakes she eats, because she is looking fine.

Shralla
15th Dec 2013, 22:44
Your initial post is like saying 'Your momma so fat, is that because she never exercises or eats cakes all day?' when in fact momma is 65kg. It doesn't matter if she exercises or how many cakes she eats, because she is looking fine.

Maybe that would be true if Human Revolution was "fine looking," which it's not. And you're still taking horrendously personal offense to something he said that wasn't even really an attack, and rather a legitimate complaint, and not even about you!

Berr
15th Dec 2013, 23:36
Maybe that would be true if Human Revolution was "fine looking," which it's not. And you're still taking horrendously personal offense to something he said that wasn't even really an attack, and rather a legitimate complaint, and not even about you!

Incorrect.

If he had said 'DXHR did not break new ground for best graphics, why not?' or 'DXHR had graphics below cutting edge for 2009, why is this?' then these could be argued to be a legitimate complaint, and I would be happy to have a conversation about game depth vs graphics vs budget.

But he didn't. He opened with a derogatory and manifestly untrue statement that DXHR looked like a game released in 2000, and followed that up with nothing but scathing criticism. If that was a genuine attempt to start a conversation, it doesn't read like it, and he should re-read his posts for tone before hitting 'Submit reply'.

Serendip1ty
15th Dec 2013, 23:43
I have no problems with the graphics but I agree it is a legitimate complaint.

I played all 3 games on release, played them each multiple times over the years & although Deus Ex is my favourite game franchise. The engine has never been a big highlight. Even on release & that's a fact.
Every Deus Ex game has used an engine (or modified a great engine & ended up failing *cough* Invisible War*cough*) that the end result can only be considered 'decent' or 'good enough' at best.

I also remember people having alot of performance issues with the first two games on release... but that's another story.

Deus Ex & (slightly) dated graphics just seem to go together.

Berr
15th Dec 2013, 23:54
I have no problems with the graphics but I agree it is a legitimate complaint.

I played all 3 games on release, played them each multiple times over the years & although Deus Ex is my favourite game franchise. The engine has never been a big highlight. Even on release & that's a fact.
Every Deus Ex game has used an engine (or modified a great engine & ended up failing *cough* Invisible War*cough*) that the end result can only be considered 'decent' or 'good enough' at best.

I also remember people having alot of performance issues with the first two games on release... but that's another story.

Deus Ex & (slightly) dated graphics just seem to go together.

A rational critique!

Yes, I agree, slightly dated graphics are hard to avoid on a DX-style game. This is because the size and complexity of the game and gameplay systems is far greater than most other games, so they need a bigger slice of the funding than normal, and since graphics typically takes up all leftover available funds, it ends up with a bit less.

teh roxxors
16th Dec 2013, 01:09
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ltt7x66yau4png/ku-xlarge.png
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/teh-roxxors/2013-12-15_00065_zps2fff6839.jpg

Stunning.

Again, quality is inconsistent throughout, and I'd like to know why.

Serendip1ty
16th Dec 2013, 02:49
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ltt7x66yau4png/ku-xlarge.png
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/teh-roxxors/2013-12-15_00065_zps2fff6839.jpg

Stunning.

Again, quality is inconsistent throughout, and I'd like to know why.

You have your main characters with a higher polycount & then the rest.

Look it just comes down to this:

Priorities. Deadlines. Engine.

And yes, some other games have a more sophisticated lightning system that would make that "scene" look better.

The budget wasn't "unusually" tight. Deus Ex is just a big game. It's not a scripted 6 hour rollercoaster.

If the game was pc-only then the texture size would probably also have been bigger.

3rdmillhouse
18th Dec 2013, 14:42
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ltt7x66yau4png/ku-xlarge.png
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/teh-roxxors/2013-12-15_00065_zps2fff6839.jpg

Stunning.

Again, quality is inconsistent throughout, and I'd like to know why.

Budget constraints.

Amaryl
20th Dec 2013, 17:48
Reading the first message, I thought the guy was trolling.

I've played Battlefield 3, I've seen Crysis, and to me HR's graphics are of similar quality. Maybe you should just buy another graphic card.
I played the game being totally awed throughout.

Shralla
20th Dec 2013, 21:13
I've played Battlefield 3, I've seen Crysis, and to me HR's graphics are of similar quality.

Are you playing on a console? Because otherwise there is literally no way that Human Revolution is of similar graphical quality to BF3 or Crysis.

dysamoria
21st Dec 2013, 03:37
Comparison to Crysis is no good. The graphics in this game look pretty good so far to me. i wish there was global illumination baked in like in Crysis, and better looking characters in closeup, but it's around Doom 3 quality, and stylish, so i'm okay. What bothers me is the stuttering/jerky motion/framerate in the Director's Cut i just bought. i can't play the game like this!!

Jito463
21st Dec 2013, 04:39
I don't understand all the people having performance issues with the DC. I did a complete run through the DC, and didn't encounter any problems with framerates. Strange.

Shralla
21st Dec 2013, 05:07
I don't understand all the people having performance issues with the DC. I did a complete run through the DC, and didn't encounter any problems with framerates. Strange.

It's called poor optimization. Bad performance with no rhyme or reason is only ever the result of a lack of care. See: Planetside 2

Amaryl
22nd Dec 2013, 15:44
Are you playing on a console? Because otherwise there is literally no way that Human Revolution is of similar graphical quality to BF3 or Crysis.

All right, maybe I exaggerated a bit. There is actually no need to compare the graphics of HR to the ones of any other game. Let's agree they are at least ok. The team was busy building an amazing gameplay, atmosphere, and complex multi-layered story. The graphics are of minor importance.

If you want graphics, play Crysis 3, or Battlefield 4. HR was the first game to entertain me for 10 years, I'll stick to it.

CyberP
23rd Dec 2013, 04:11
All right, maybe I exaggerated a bit. There is actually no need to compare the graphics of HR to the ones of any other game. Let's agree they are at least ok. The team was busy building an amazing gameplay, atmosphere, and complex multi-layered story. The graphics are of minor importance.

If you want graphics, play Crysis 3, or Battlefield 4. HR was the first game to entertain me for 10 years, I'll stick to it.

Still exaggerating :p

HR is excellent but it left a lot to desire. It should have been so much more.

Amaryl
23rd Dec 2013, 21:32
Just found the making of HR. Oddly enough, this video is not very popular.

Anyway, they never aimed at photo-realistic graphics...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNC8cW-8qCY

(Eliza... :nut:)

teh roxxors
24th Dec 2013, 03:47
I don't understand all the people having performance issues with the DC. I did a complete run through the DC, and didn't encounter any problems with framerates. Strange.

LOL. Les Schtroumpfs....


Anyway, they never aimed at photo-realistic graphics...

At times, they did, and the results are occasionally impressive. Unfortunately, however, they were never able to maintain any measure of consistency.

The graphics improved considerably in the final stages of the game, making me think that more than boss fights were subcontracted out, resulting in the wide range of visual fidelity.

Of course, I am talking about the original version of the game, as the Director's Cut is unplayable on the PC.

Miyavi
4th Oct 2014, 18:28
Deus Ex doesn't bad look graphically, although the dialogue animations are horrible

OneUp77
7th Oct 2014, 03:40
Animation, especially the facial movements.

I hope the devs adopt a new engine for the next game.

That seems to be a trend in the gaming industry, replacing old game engines with new ones, Homefront the Revolution with Cryengine, Dead Island 2 with Unreal engine, Dragon Age Inquistion with Frostbite.

SageSavage
7th Oct 2014, 04:46
DXHR was average or slightly below average looking in 2011. Personally I would have liked it to look less cartoonish, with more fidelity and certainly without that gold/black color scheme but I believe part of JJBs' reasoning for the stylization was that it would preserve better in the long run. The "realistic graphics" of today look outdated tomorrow while a unique style has better longevity. Wether or not that actually worked out for DXHR is up to everyones own perception. For me, not so much but it isn't that bad either.