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Li Mu Bai
21st Nov 2013, 12:54
Every time when I play some modern action game I wonder why developers don't make varying difficulty of puzzles. They just create some easy stuff destined to be solved momentarily. I know that a lot of people don't want to think much while playing an action game, especially someone who have an intellectual job and just want to relax their brains after work. But here is a lot gamers who want to confront challenging tasks in this constituent of gameplay. I also know that if someone don't finish a game because of the difficulty they might not buy a sequel and this is bad for business. So why not indulge everybody and create several difficulty levels for puzzles?
I already wrote about that in TR10 wish list. I think that with option like this it would be easier for developers to create harder puzzles. They don't have to be afraid of overdoing the complexity of puzzles on hard mode because there would be easier options.
What your thoughts about that?

Jurre
21st Nov 2013, 15:13
Totaly right: why make tombs optional when the puzzles/platforming in them is no harder than the ones found on the regular campaign path? That is the only thing that is objectively wrong with TR9 in my opinion.

It would make more sense to fill them with big Anniversary-style puzzle sections that can be ignored by the players who want a faster type of gameplay and enjoyed by the puzzle audience...

pirate1802
21st Nov 2013, 15:21
Jurre, I agree with you that puzzle easiness was one of my few complaints about the game, just a small nitpick:


That is the only thing that is objectively wrong with TR9 in my opinion.

How is something objective when its your opinion, and when its your opinion how is it the objective truth? :p Don't kill me, I'm just nitpicking.

Jurre
21st Nov 2013, 15:30
How is something objective when its your opinion, and when its your opinion how is it the objective truth? :p Don't kill me, I'm just nitpicking.

Well I always try to make a clear distinction between an objective and a personal viewpoint. But it would be kinda self righteous to say that 'this' is an objective truth, or that I know for a fact that 'this' is an objective viewpoint and not a personal one... So I'll add an 'in my opinion'...

You see what I mean...?

Metalrocks
22nd Nov 2013, 08:07
wasnt there an option in silent hill 2 that we could choose how difficult the puzzles should be? that sure would be nice to have. i also like to solve some puzzles that take some time to solve then this easy stuff we have lately.
these puzzles in the tombs were just too easy. one quick look and it was clear what you have to do. finding weights is not really a puzzle.

a_big_house
22nd Nov 2013, 09:08
Isn't this already a wish? :)

Metalrocks
23rd Nov 2013, 09:52
think about the myst games. now they really have some difficult puzzles. i still remember how i was able to solve every puzzle by my self in the first game. that was really hard. for the other titles i had to get a walkthrough because i got stuck a lot. and some of them are really hard solve and some i would have never thought off how to solve it.

maybe tr can have tjese kind of puzzles.

Gemma_Darkmoon_
23rd Nov 2013, 17:50
You don't even need to think of Myst, the Core TR games have plenty tough enough puzzles. Most of the optional tombs in TR2013 were easy enough to be on the main track but the problem is that CD see a puzzle as an individual room rather a section of level. I want to see some multistage puzzles rather than just a machine in the middle of a cave like searching an area to find the puzzle pieces to open a door or having to open and close gates to alter water levels. I want to have to think and play around with different things before I figure it out and to feel the puzzle is part of the environment rather than a sign coming up on my screen saying this is a puzzle chamber.

Chocolate_shake
24th Nov 2013, 12:36
I would like that.

I completely agree with Gemma . I missed opening doors , finding stuff to advance forward . The huge hubs felt pretty underutilized on that account .

Rai
25th Nov 2013, 02:22
You don't even need to think of Myst, the Core TR games have plenty tough enough puzzles. Most of the optional tombs in TR2013 were easy enough to be on the main track but the problem is that CD see a puzzle as an individual room rather a section of level. I want to see some multistage puzzles rather than just a machine in the middle of a cave like searching an area to find the puzzle pieces to open a door or having to open and close gates to alter water levels. I want to have to think and play around with different things before I figure it out and to feel the puzzle is part of the environment rather than a sign coming up on my screen saying this is a puzzle chamber.

This is part of the problem with CD's puzzles. You go into a room and the puzzle is all there for you to figure out in one go. It's all mapped out for you. Some of their puzzles are actually quite decent, but they're small, contained. There's none of that...enter a room or location and see a puzzle to solve and you have the whole level to go searching for components to complete it. Levels can in fact be a puzzle in itself if it's designed in such a way that you have to figure stuff out, figure the way forward in order to complete it.

I would actually really like to see a variety of difficulty levels. If we're talking the optional tombs, then I'm fine with them being one or two room contained. Optional tomb puzzles shouldn't be overly intricate or difficult, but maybe if, in completing a tomb, you could unlock more difficult ones or difficult aspects of a puzzle. You can choose whether to solve the puzzle the easier way or the more difficult solution.

For main story path puzzles, I'd like to see a return of level (hub) based puzzles. This path is blocked? Find something or some way to get passed. And yes, the further into the game, the puzzles go up a notch in difficulty. Maybe a new element is added to familiar themed puzzles. I'm hoping that as TR'13 was Lara's first adventure the game's puzzles were simplified as an introduction to the reboot. As Lara learns so do we. Which means they should vary in the difficulty levels and be a bit more intricate, complex. And Lara needs to zip it and stop giving the solutions away! In saying that, there needs to be a balance and a limit. We're not all to Lara's level of intelligence.

larafan25
1st Dec 2013, 23:49
You don't need optional puzzles nor different versions of each puzzle. You put as many puzzles in the game as you see fit, considering their an important aspect of the game and the puzzling nature of Tomb Raider has always ruled and still rules throughout the fan base. You make those puzzles puzzling because they're puzzles, otherwise, what is the point? You make hard puzzles for people who want a challenge, and then you use all of the hint-systems and spoilers implemented within each damn game to...

and then I get confused...


Like. http://www.quarkclan.com/public/style_emoticons/default/Facepalm_emote_gif.gifIf there is hard stuff. And hint systems that gamers complain about. But the hard stuff still isn't hard.

You take the hard stuff and make it acceptably harder, and then you actually need a hint system, so you implement one for those of us who don't want to play that part of Tomb Raider.

It's obviously much easier to make a hard puzzle, and make the solution a moment away, than it is to make an easy puzzle harder.


I would like that.

I completely agree with Gemma . I missed opening doors , finding stuff to advance forward . The huge hubs felt pretty underutilized on that account .

Yaaaas. The longing for puzzles is true, but leik, I think people also want that puzzling nature back. Closed doors, how do I open em? Obstacles which solutions that are not just around the corner.