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Chocolate_shake
6th Nov 2013, 13:15
All tomb raider games (except TR4 , AOD and Reboot ) have featured levels spanning across several countries around the globe .

Globetrotting definitely has its advantages , the most prominent being able to explore different , exotic environments with their own special atmosphere and set of challenges .

But I feel that globetrotting ( specially one level per location ) makes me feel disconnected from the environment/ruins . For example in legend , Ghana is visited , but we only hop our way across the ruins without delving into who built it, the culture and mythology of the people who built it and for what particular reason it was built and instead forced into the overarching "pieces-are-all-over-the-world" plot . For me , it was just beautiful ruins and nothing else.

While in TR4 , we delve deep into Egyptian mythology and know the significance of the tomb of semerkhet , cleopatra's palaces etc . Or in AOD , the fact that the tomb of brother obscura has a very rich backstory ( about the paintings , engravings , secret societies) made it much more thrilling to explore than say , City of Khamoon . In TR9 , we are confined to a single location but with so many layers of history , many groups of people who either lived here or are currently living. All have left their mark on the island some way or the other . Along with all those collectibles , Yamatai had so much depth and culture embedded in it , that it made me overlook the rather lacklusture main plot.

So my question is , how much globetrotting would you want in the sequel ? Can globetrotting co exist with well rounded fleshed out locations ?

Jurre
6th Nov 2013, 13:35
I agree completely on the advantages of staying in one location. Indeed in Legend and Underworld there were so many ancient civilisations that were merely glossed over and never explored thoroughly. This also meant that they practically ran out of civilisations and original locations after two or three games: it's gonna burn their inspiration up to quick that way.

One location can still provide enough variety in landscapes; I mean almost everywhere in the world you can find a forest here, some rocks there, a cave here or a lake there.

So yes, I am all for staying in one location. Lara will still be a globetrotter that way, but this is over the course of multiple games...

I don't think that it would be possible to properly create more than one civilisation in one game with current level of grafics. Imagine that besides the Japanese Island they would also have to build an -for example- Egyptian location with the same amount of detail and attention - it would have been a monstrous amount of work...

MissBrandy
6th Nov 2013, 14:32
Imagine that besides the Japanese Island they would also have to build an -for example- Egyptian location with the same amount of detail and attention - it would have been a monstrous amount of work...

This is what I would say as well ...
One location can be plenty of different scenes ..
Yamatai was perfect ... I didn't miss going in any other location
So it's perfect for me keeping the game in one big location :)

pirate1802
6th Nov 2013, 15:10
I'm divided on this. On one hand what the people above me have said is completely true. Having multiple locations not only is a huge amount of work, but also normally doesn't do the locations justice. Yamatai felt like one huge playground. With its mysteries, collectibles, simply it always beckoned me to see what's around the corner. There was simply stupendous amount of detail in the world I felt. I'd be like a fat kid in a cookie store. As Jurre said, were they to make another place like Yamatai, it would have most likely not as detailed as the island and would have made the island less deep.

And also, I don't have much previous TR experience, but I felt TR9's plot, simplistic as it was, was very tightly held together. People were always telling each other their locations and you were generally aware of what's going on. There was no "wait, what?" moment as far as I' concerned. Globetrotting stories, as I've seen in other games, always has an amount of disconnection. Perhaps it is inevitable.

On the other hand, being an old fan of the Indy movies has made me somewhat of a globetrotting addict. I simply like the idea of moving through countries, across different cultures, exploring different locations, even if I'm aware of the problems it brings. If I had to choose one I'd say no globetrotting, but then I thought maybe there is a middle ground. How about having one big Yamatai-like location that'll be the focus of the story, and then have several smaller set-piece like locations? Say, a museum here, a monument there. These would obviously be smaller than the main location but also keep the globetrotter in me satiated. :p For example, the next game could start off at Lara's apartment, or a similar downtown area. You'll have your living area and a small adjacent street with people and all. The first few missions will take place here. You are contacted by a mysterious person and you have to meet him on the other side of the street. From him you get the location of an artifact, which is in a museum or in the manor of a rich guy. You cross borders or continent to this guy's place. This would be another small location with limited explorability. You recover the artifact and find a scroll in it that details the existence of another star phenomenon. You hop continents again and get to the real location with many hubs and fully explorable. In the course of the game you may go to more of these small, closed off locations. Think of these as TR9's "tombs" (in the sense that they'll be small areas, not saying the actual tombs should be like this, please don't kill me!) but detached from the main location. You'd have to employ parkour or skillful stealth to complete these and return to the main location. Hell, Lara can even have flashback missions. How bout a mission where Roth is training her? I think this way globetrotters can be pacified and the focus on one main location be kept.

Jurre
6th Nov 2013, 15:31
How about having one big Yamatai-like location that'll be the focus of the story, and then have several smaller set-piece like locations? Say, a museum here, a monument there. These would obviously be smaller than the main location but also keep the globetrotter in me satiated. :p


I know what you mean: like in Uncharted 2 that starts out in Istanbul if I remember correctly and then the main 'beef' of the game is in Tibet. Same with Assassins Creed Revelations, which starts out somewhere near Damascus and then moves to Constantinopel...

That's perfectly doable I think. I just think they shouldn't return to the old framework of having 7 different levels each in different countries...

a_big_house
6th Nov 2013, 16:38
For all we know, with the next game being next-gen, the size of the world could span into different countries.

I don't mean like entire countries, but say one huge area that overlaps borders of different countries, for example; top of the map, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Russia all join up in one area so setting the game there would result in theses different area having different historical structures and what not :)

But that's just an idea, I think for now, with us still 'becoming Lara' we should stick to one area

Jurre
6th Nov 2013, 18:49
Speaking of Finland, it's about time Lara goes searching for the magical harp of the wizard -checking the internet for the correct spelling- Väinämöinen.

larafan25
6th Nov 2013, 19:23
Zero Globetrotting. I find an adventure to be much more rewarding, to feel truly like a journey when you go from one end to the other of one world. One world can have variety, it can have swamps, it can have caves and it can have different types of caves. There is an endless amount of variation possible while remaining within one, cohesive map. It's important, it's all about exploration, discovery and reality.

I want Tomb Raider to be set in one, open (locked, designed, whatever) world with mission-based gameplay. It only makes sense, it's a direct evolution from the classic level system.

You take a location from the classics (a set of levels) and you find the environment to be open and non-linear, whilst it obviously have pathways no doubt. These levels and locations are book-ended by plot-significant events. Within the level you fetch keys to open doors, you see a problem, you journey off and solve it. It's a mission, but nobody had to tell you to do it (nor tell you how). The exact same idea is applied to new Tomb Raider either as a whole game set in one map, or as a game set in a hub-split map. You're free to roam and explore. You find locked places and gear-gated places. You find a problem, you solve it. You're given tasks and missions, you complete them, you move on, you unlock and encounter plot progression.

Anyways. Tomb Raider needs to be open world.

Marylinfill
6th Nov 2013, 19:54
Let Lara visit New Zeland. New Zeland has everything a good adventurer needs - mountains, rivers, deserts, hobbits. =)
Seriously, I wish we could just have longer "levels". Maybe there will be two or three main locations where she could test her skills - like India, Tibet and Egypt. I think that's enough for a 15 hours of gameplay to feel the spirit and learn the history.

_Ninja_
6th Nov 2013, 23:46
The thing is if they don't do Globetrotting the setting has to be a lot like Yamatai which may come off repetitive.

It needs to be large by gaming standards but relatively small by real world standards so you can easily travel from place to place in a reasonable amount of time, it needs to have a comparable amount of variety to Yamatai concentrated in that area, and all that be isolated from civilization and undiscovered in a way that makes sense.

This I feel will not work in any real world place. So they would once again need a chunk of land with lots of stuff to be believably hidden somewhere. Like Yamatai.

On the other hand with Globetrotting it's easier to do multiple relatively small isolated areas and undiscovered tombs.

Gemma_Darkmoon_
8th Nov 2013, 23:56
I am in favour of globe trotting as it brings such diversity in to the game. It allows for locations that wouldn't work otherwise like the London, Venice or Area 51 sections which couldn't have a whole game centred around them but make for amazing and exciting sections.

TR 1-3 showed exactly how to do globetrotting well with 4-5 distinct areas but each one being very large multiple level environments. TRU showed how not to do it with too many separate locations that they lacked depth. Any TR game to be immersive has to have that feeling that you are getting deeper into an area.

Rai
10th Nov 2013, 01:23
I'm a fairly easy going gal in that I'd be happy for a return to globtrotting, but I really did like the island setting on Yamatai. The environments were diverse enough to not feel samey, but they also seemed connected and not out of place, just as you'd expect on a large island.

The OP speaks of multiple locations in a negative light giving Legend's Ghana as an example, stating that we don't have time to truly appreciate the beauty of the place, to learn about the history and mythology of the place. This was true of all the levels in TRL. With only one level to each location, you feel like you're just skirting the possibilities that each environment could hold, which is a shame.

But, as Gemma points out, if we look at the classics, each main location, was further split into four segments, each segment taking up a whole level. Each segment (City of Vilcabamba, Tibetan Foothills) were pretty big all by themselves. Imagine if each main area (Peru, Egypt, Venice etc) were massive hubs, segmented off, but interlinked into these four sections, with story missions taking you from one to the next?

Lara travels the world, but each new location is still linked in some way. In TR1/A it was the scion; in TR3 it was the meteorite pieces; in Legend, it was the Excalibur pieces and the dais' etc. So globtrotting can still work, if you allow for the story to have Lara do so. I think if CD stick to the mythology mystery idea, they may miss out the artefact/s, so it may indeed make more sense to have the mystery contained to one large location. Maybe we could see a main location, but there is research done elsewhere or clues situated somewhere else, which will see a short visit to another location. Even in AoD, there was Paris and Prague to go to as Lara followed clues.

My point is, you can feel connected to different locations, if each location is big enough and takes time to explore. You can delve into the history and mythology just as easily in four locations as you can in just one. Not only do you get diversity in environments, but in cultures, histories etc as well. As long as there is a common thread to tie the main story in to all of it. I'm not saying that all the myths tie in like in TRL/TRU, where it all tied to 'the ancients'/the Atlanteans, rather, like in TR3, there just happened to be meteorite pieces hidden in different places: India, the Antarctic, London, Nevada.

Psychomorph
13th Nov 2013, 01:25
TR1 / Anniversary style globe-trotting, please.

MissBrandy
13th Nov 2013, 11:14
big island trotting please...including jungle :D

Jurre
13th Nov 2013, 13:06
^ Hell yes, I am in the mood for jungle

CakeLuv
13th Nov 2013, 21:20
I don't know you, but I want Lara to levitate, trotting is soo 2012...

Chocolate_shake
14th Nov 2013, 12:57
Thanks for the replies people !

I agree with Rai and Gemma . TR1-3 did globetrotting well . But it seems to work only when there are 'pieces' of artifacts to search for . For how long can they continue to show lara seeking out artifacts whose pieces are conveniently all over the globe . Would it not become repetitive ?

I think Two or three locations acting as these huge hubs with leading off to their own smaller sections might work out well .

I just hope they don't go back to 7 levels , 7 countries route.

Chakram
14th Nov 2013, 19:18
I just hope they don't go back to 7 levels , 7 countries route.

Agreed, I'd much rather have fewer locations with more gameplay in each.

DrCroft
14th Nov 2013, 20:30
I think it would be interesting to have one of the challenges being Lara trying to cross a border illegally, maybe part of the country is cut off for some reason or her belongs she was traveling with were stolen so she has no other way of getting into a country other than sneaking in.

Or you know, someone from Japan is chasing her down after Yamatai :p

kiadaw
17th Nov 2013, 21:06
big island trotting please...including jungle :D
Isn't Jungle done to death already. How about an Ancient City.

Psychomorph
17th Nov 2013, 21:54
Mesopotamia, please.

Psychomorph
17th Nov 2013, 22:37
I was just thinking that Lara could have a hoverboard. LOL

If she comes back from the future, then why not.

Psychomorph
17th Nov 2013, 23:03
In 'Back To the Future 2' the timeline that hoverboards existed were in 2015.
This IS the future! :rasp:

Holy ****, didn't realize. Gonna fear holo sharks next year. :eek:

Jurre
18th Nov 2013, 02:22
Isn't Jungle done to death already. How about an Ancient City.Honestly, what hasn't been done to death? We've been in mountains, the arctic, Egypt and underwater several times as well. But after the grey and depressing Yamatai I'm in the mood for a more colourful enviroment.


Mesopotamia, please.
Hey that was my idea as well. Did you read this topic (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=138372)?

Thetford
18th Nov 2013, 17:37
Honestly, what hasn't been done to death? We've been in mountains, the arctic, Egypt and underwater several times as well. But after the grey and depressing Yamatai I'm in the mood for a more colourful enviroment.


What about Australia? Deadly critters, yellowy red colour scheme (OK, maybe a bit too much like Nevada), and have some sort of hidden tomb inside Ayers Rock/Uluru? Though I have been informed that the place in question is essentially in the derrière end of nowhere, and days drive away from anywhere else interesting.

Though what I did like about TR9 was its mix of jungle, village, shanty town, bunkers, caves and other such to create an environment with diverse and historical qualities.

I guess wherever we go in the next game, it will have to be relatively undocumented like Yamatai, or suffer some strange occurrence like a secret tomb under the Louvre (though in all fairness, the Louvre and the Botanical Garden levels were my favourite levels in that game)

Jurre
18th Nov 2013, 19:20
What about Australia?

Yeah that's good, although the only downside to that and to New Zealand is that those places hadn't had a very advanced civilisation that builded giant palaces and pyramids and whatnot. And I guess Lara also has to find lots of collectables to gain XP, and unfortunately the Aboriginals didn't make a lot of pretty things compared to say: the Egyptians or the Aztecs...

Maybe she could find captain Cooks snuff box though :)

Thetford
19th Nov 2013, 18:36
I'm trying to think of some locations to set future games, locations that offer enough mystery, in addition to enough space to fill a Yamatai sized map, though I feel the ideas I have are a bit too Core as opposed to Crystal.

The Hanging Gardens of Babylon, located in present day Iraq, classical antiquity architecture mixed with bright and colourful foliage, and is the only one of the Seven Wonders whose location, appearance and whether it actually even existed is unknown.

El Dorado, located somewhere in the Amazon, with the jungle, river, underground river, and the theory that the Amazon was planted by humans (yes, I watch QI)

Canada, mystery yet unknown, but can likely include sasquatches (maybe even imply that the fabled Paul Bunyon was one, or part one), but this is more an environment based idea, offering dynamically different and changing settings, as it can include huge mountains, bears, vast lakes, huge forests, flash floods and snow in June (I've been to Canada and experienced all of that), abandoned railway hotels, ranger stations and first nation villages can also appear.

Jurre
19th Nov 2013, 18:59
Canada, mystery yet unknown,
How about the treasure of Oak Island? If you don't know: people have been searching for over 200 years for a treasure that is supposed to have been buried on Oak Island near Nova Scotia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island


but can likely include sasquatches
+1 :thumb:

pirate1802
19th Nov 2013, 19:16
Oak Island! I remember reading about it when I was a 7 year old and I felt giddy with the mystery. It was there in AC3 but not in great detail. Would be awesome to have it feature in TR now :D

regarding monsters, I really really hope they keep it the way it was in the last TR, that is, used in moderation and not like you're battling them for half the game, maybe more. I know people have disliked the amount of human enemies and the lack of monsters, but in my opinion, by doing that, they made sure there was atleast some mystery to them, that the monsters stay monsters and not become mere funny-looking guys. Which wouldnt be there if you were for example fighting them from start to finish.

Jurre
19th Nov 2013, 19:27
regarding monsters, I really really hope they keep it the way it was in the last TR, that is, used in moderation and not like you're battling them for half the game, maybe more. I know people have disliked the amount of human enemies and the lack of monsters, but in my opinion, by doing that, they made sure there was atleast some mystery to them,

Agreed, but I think we need not to worry about that: I believe the current team at Crystal D knows what they're doing ...

VOLCOM20lovesLARA
10th Jan 2014, 00:13
i'm legitimately torn about this subject. :hmm:
only because i love trotting, but TR9 was incredibly
astounding without having to travel anywhere but the island.

Heidi_W
28th Apr 2014, 10:28
Any tombs though? ;)

While I think we'll see a certain amount of globetrotting, it won't be extensive - expect they'll deal with 3 or 4 major locations (hopefully one of them being Roanoke, Virginia), as I think to have much more than that would make the game feel disjointed.





Let Lara visit New Zeland. New Zeland has everything a good adventurer needs - mountains, rivers, deserts, hobbits. =)