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Telekill
11th Oct 2013, 22:03
Since the start of the current gen it seems as though Xbox was the preferred system by Eidos and Crystal Dynamics. PlayStation and PC users were treated as second hand fanbases. Heck, Playstation users NEVER got the story based or any other DLC for Underworld.

Treating userbases seperatly alienates your fanbases.

As an example, I was frustraited enough that when it was announced at E3 2012 that there would be timed exclusive DLC for TR 2013 on 360, I decided then and there that I would be buying the game used... and that's exactly what I did. You lost a sale from me and I'm sure others.

All I'm asking for is equal treatment of the fanbases. It shouldn't matter which platform we game on when it comes to third party developers. Treat us equally and I'll preorder. Leave us alienated and I'll buy used again.

MissBrandy
11th Oct 2013, 22:54
I guess they did it more for Xbox because they have some kind of agreement with them about price of distribution licence at xBox. I mean, TR Team (or SquareEnix) must pay money to Xbox/Ps3 for selling their game in that console, and maybe SEnix got better price with xbox by offering exclusive dlc for it ..

PC maybe is the same as xbox as long as both are Microsoft ... (but im sure Microsoft focused more on xbox than pc)



(Producing a good game cost soooo much money ..even if we don't notice that )

Jurre
11th Oct 2013, 23:47
Equality for the consoles? What do you think this is? Communism? This is business, son! Money talks! :rasp:

Joking aside: the cold-hearted truth is that that arrangement with Microsoft was made because it made Eidos more money than happy PS3 gamers did. It's the principle of the free market: it sucks for us PS3 boys and girls but there's nothing we can do about it. And that happened 4 years ago but as far as I know there has not been any console-discrimination ever since, not for Guardian of Light and not for TR13, so this crap with Underworld may well be just an incidental thing.

And speaking for myself: since I find the gameplay mechanics of Underworld abysmal and since I hate the Doppleganger who is the main character of one of the DLC levels I don't think the PS3 community has been missing out on much.

rudyavelar
12th Oct 2013, 05:26
xbox got that sexy controller. ps3 didn't get one. not fair, but yeah. money is everything. i still bought one lol, i just use it for steam games.

Chocolate_shake
12th Oct 2013, 12:27
Sony already have Uncharted/Nathan Drake , so they will make no attempt to sign special deals with CD/Square.

The competition between TR and uncharted will become much more direct and intense in the coming years so sony will not do TR any favours

MissBrandy
12th Oct 2013, 14:10
Sony already have Uncharted/Nathan Drake , so they will make no attempt to sign special deals with CD/Square.

The competition between TR and uncharted will become much more direct and intense in the coming years so sony will not do TR any favours


I'm sure about that :rolleyes:

Telekill
12th Oct 2013, 14:48
Well then I guess those making Tomb Raider don't care about the fans and I'll continue to buy used.

On a side note, Uncharted is my favorite series. Tomb Raider and Uncharted feel different to me in the aspect that Uncharted is a high paced action thrill ride where as Tomb Raider has more of a stealth wonderment with survival vibe.

They just feel different to me and both are great.

Oh, and I've always played TR on PlayStation since it first released in 96'. To me, it's always been a PlayStation series so it really has felt like a gut punch this entire gen for long time PlayStation users that are fans of TR.

Rai
12th Oct 2013, 15:03
You're putting the 'blame' solely on Crystal and SE for the exclusives, timed or otherwise. I don't know for sure, but it's entirely possible that CD/SE went to Sony as well as MS for deals and MS obliged and have paid CD to come up with the goods. It's all business when coming up with DLC or whatever. TR has in the past been well known for being a Playstation game, but somewhere along the line Sony lost interest in TR and went elsewhere...picking up on a new franchise that has similar genre and story aspects to TR - Uncharted/Nathan Drake, and now they don't need both franchises. So Microsoft, in showing an interest, benefit with these deals. Business is a two way game. CD/SE go where the money is.

MissBrandy
12th Oct 2013, 17:35
Well then I guess those making Tomb Raider don't care about the fans and I'll continue to buy used.

I think we must understand that Game means Business ..not only fun for the player ...
And I say again: making a good game cost soo much money ..and thats why we pay ''expensive'' games as 60$ or 60€ ....
I completely agree if CD/SE want to earn some money by doing exclusive stuff for Microsoft and reduce some internal cost of the game ...

Think about the case if you make a game and go to Sony and they ask you for 10$ fee tax , and then go to Microsoft and they offer you a 8$ fee if you accept doing some exclusive dlc for xbox (paid as well) ...so guess what? You will accept the deal for sure ..

I dont feel im treated diferent by TR team.. I got all my TR games in PC version and I know it's MY DECISION playing it on PC and not on Xbox or PS3 (even if it means losing some dlc) ... I still got the full game and I don't give a damn for few dlc

Don't u think I wish I have some exclusive Ps3 game for my PC? And what can I do? ... So do u think in the case of The Last of Us devs is treating the other players equally? NO. They say: Buy a Ps3 if u want to play my game:lol:

TR team gave us the full game for PC/Xbox/Ps3 ..and that's caring about fans ...

Gemma_Darkmoon_
12th Oct 2013, 18:09
In the next gen I will get PS4. Whatever deals the console manufacturers make about extra DLC for games or getting DLC sooner isn't going to affect that at all. Pretty much everyone with PC or Xbox probably feel the same way about their preferred consoles too.

While developers may be lured by the console maker's deals it does end making them look bad when it can come across that they don't value some fans as much because they havn't got the correct console. Just to say I am not blaming CD for this favouritism issue though obviously the TRU exclusive was a bad call. TR has a long connection with PS and PC with a lot of fans there so there is every reason to give fans on those consoles the full experience as much as somebody with an xbox one will get. Where as there are titles like say LBP that you would think PS or Pokémon you think Nintendo, TR has good connection to PS, Xbox and PC and that's a good thing.

Telekill
12th Oct 2013, 20:37
@MissBrandy

The problem with your example of The Last of Us is that it's a game made by a studio owned by Sony. I'm not angry about Mario or Halo getting exclusive games for their respective systems as they are owned by those console developers.

I'm angry with CS, Eidos and Square because they are third party and not owned by a console manufacturer.

Huge difference.

MissBrandy
12th Oct 2013, 21:34
@MissBrandy

The problem with your example of The Last of Us is that it's a game made by a studio owned by Sony.

Yes..I know ...but can u see a huge company like Sony is 'racist' with other console players??
I think they don't want more players buying their games ...they want more people buying their console ...and there is a big difference as well ..

In my own case I was interested to play The Last of Us and I WONT BUY a Ps3 for it ... So I used my fiends console and game ...so im sure Sony lost money being 'racist' because there are soo much people like me that just asked a friend to borrow the game and console (and this is free) ...



Business...business everywhere ...

Driber
14th Oct 2013, 21:52
Since the start of the current gen it seems as though Xbox was the preferred system by Eidos and Crystal Dynamics. PlayStation and PC users were treated as second hand fanbases. Heck, Playstation users NEVER got the story based or any other DLC for Underworld.

TRU aside, how is a dev having a preferred system alienating fans, exactly?

I have heard no big uproar from fans feeling alienated during or after the TR9 campaign.


As an example, I was frustraited enough that when it was announced at E3 2012 that there would be timed exclusive DLC for TR 2013 on 360, I decided then and there that I would be buying the game used... and that's exactly what I did. You lost a sale from me and I'm sure others.

So let me ask you... did you in the end buy that DLC for PS3 that was an xbox timed exclusive?

Murphdawg1
14th Oct 2013, 23:45
Meh while it is frustrating that Microsoft will throw money at developers just so their customers can be first in getting DLC it won't stop me from buying the games I want brand new for any Playstation console.

Telekill
15th Oct 2013, 02:26
@Driber

TRU aside...

- TR Anniversary not on PS3 till years later in the combo pack when the system was already out.
- TR GoL timed exclusive on Xbox
- TR HD trilogy pack still didn't have TRU DLC for PS3
- TR 2013 timed exclusive DLC (no, I didn't buy it on principal)

I'm letting TR Legend not being on PS3 till years later slide when it was on 360 due to PS3 not being out at the time of its release.

When it used to be a favorite series and your part of the group getting shafted, you tend to take notice.

Driber
15th Oct 2013, 08:02
@Driber

TRU aside...

- TR Anniversary not on PS3 till years later in the combo pack when the system was already out.

As you said, the PS3 was not out on release, so using this in your argumentation doesn't make sense.

And you said you're letting this one "slide" so I don't see why you're listing it in the first place.


- TR GoL timed exclusive on Xbox

Yeah, timed exclusive.

Was it something you were interested in? And did you buy it in the end?


- TR HD trilogy pack still didn't have TRU DLC for PS3

Both of us said "TRU aside", did we not?

But for argument's sake, I will say that also this one isn't a valid additional point. When something is platform exclusive, we can't expect CD to break contracts and possibly get into legal trouble with MS by releasing it for other platforms, after all. So you can't count this point double, otherwise the floodgates are open and we can make this case for any device it wasn't released on :rolleyes:


- TR 2013 timed exclusive DLC

Yeah, timed exclusive. That is in my view not an example of people getting "shafted". Everyone gets the content, eventually. It's the same deal with retailer exclusives. Then we might as well go on a witch hunt against Walmart, GMG, Gamestop, etc, as well :whistle:


no, I didn't buy it on principal

And was it something you were really interested in?

Sefin
22nd Oct 2013, 10:15
I don´t get much that point with Uncharted and Tomb Raider. Why would console producer prefer one franchise while they can have both and profit more?

If the game is good I play it. I don´t care if they have similar gameplay. If I was console owner I would buy both. But I will never ever buy console. If the darkest day comes and game developers cancel games for PC I will stop playing games.

Metalrocks
22nd Oct 2013, 12:59
dont think this will happen that games for pc will be canceled. yes, we do get poor ports but some companies do a good job or at least a decent one. i think the pc port of resident evil revelations turned out pretty good. even when the graphics could have been improved more.

and besides, so many indie developers make games pretty much for pc only. yes, exclusive always sucks, i still wish the DLCs for underworld would be available for pc because they really look nice. but i know i will never see them.

Tecstar70
24th Oct 2013, 09:07
Its not personal, it's business and it happens all the time:

Assassin's Creed 4, Watch Dogs DLC exclusive to PlayStation for six months
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-24-assassins-creed-4-watch-dogs-dlc-exclusive-to-playstation-for-six-months

kiadaw
24th Oct 2013, 13:22
If games are making massive amount of profits, & no risk of lost, & you know, layoff & stuff, I can maybe digest the ideology behind Thread starter.

Squareenix, or Eidos, or CD, ain't exactly state own, where employees get cushy jobs without risk of layoff. If there is a good business proposition, they will of course considered at the very least.

Just be happy, that they even make enough (TR 2013) for Square enix to continue to pay the talented employees of CD to make TR10.

BridgetFisher
25th Oct 2013, 14:57
I dont get why more companies dont raise the price of the base game sell it as a deluxe and have it include everything. Its annoying checking for new dlc and having to buy it one by one. Id rather just pay more from the start to avoid that headache to ahve convenience.

kiadaw
25th Oct 2013, 15:20
Not all companies are like capcom, with on disc DLC. Most dLC required time to made, & there are season pass that specially catered for people who will pay for DLCs.

I do not like season pass as I wanted to know what exactly am I buying.

I think alot of sales in current gen are lost to used market. For this I think one way to is give first time owner incentive to keep the game.

In my opinion, costumes should be free for 1st time buyers. Maybe 1st DLC should be free, & subsequent DLC a bit of discount.

BridgetFisher
5th Nov 2013, 08:04
Depends how the game is made really. not sure if CD knows how to do multiplatform building, but other companies are doing it like Ubisoft. From the ground up built to support next gen consoles and pcs, also with textures for older pcs, this does make the game VERy big though, AC4 is going to be about 30 some gb, and that splinter cell game they made was huge to I forget how big but its big because it has ALL the textures. I think best way to do PC games is offer a base game, then a HD pack of textures for free as a separate download like sleeping dogs and skyrim did so if a person cant use it because of an older computer it also doesnt eat their HDD space.

MissBrandy
5th Nov 2013, 13:41
not sure if CD knows how to do multiplatform building.

C'mon ! ...that really hurts ...

CD are so PRO in their work.
And don't you think untill TRLegend (when CD starts) we've got all games in Multiplatform?? and you're still in doubt if CD knows or not how to ''do multiplatform building'' ? :nut::nut: LOL

pirate1802
5th Nov 2013, 14:32
AC4 is 30 gb? :O

And regarding multiplatform, TR9 was one of the best ports I have played in recent times. As far as Ubisoft is concerned, don't know how AC4 is yet, but let's not forget what a disaster AC3 was on the PC, if anything its them who need to learn multiplatform builds. :vlol:

BridgetFisher
5th Nov 2013, 20:22
C'mon ! ...that really hurts ...

CD are so PRO in their work.
And don't you think untill TRLegend (when CD starts) we've got all games in Multiplatform?? and you're still in doubt if CD knows or not how to ''do multiplatform building'' ? :nut::nut: LOL

CD are 100% pros, the skillset for multiplatform building using next gen graphics with the ability to dumb it down for PC is something new, it has to be done from the start of development. Not saying CD cant, but not sure if they can, one thing is for sure CD always does a great job so its not a matter of if I think but how they choose to do it. I think for PC gamers the HD textures download option is best instead of making everyone download it since if they have an old computer then they dont have a big HDD to store it all.

(PS also from start of development if they want make something fun, maybe make steam workshop for uploading lara clothing items so the devs can worry more adding game content to sell for big money and less on outfits which only earn nickels and dimes in the big scheme of things..)

pirate1802
6th Nov 2013, 05:16
As far as I'm aware.. you don't need to dumb down next-gen graphics for it to work on PC, PC is still superior to nxgen. But the steam workshop idea is a great one! :O Imma add this to my wish in the official wishlist.

DamianGraham
18th Dec 2013, 21:27
Sony already have Uncharted/Nathan Drake , so they will make no attempt to sign special deals with CD/Square.

The competition between TR and uncharted will become much more direct and intense in the coming years so sony will not do TR any favours

But you know what the funny thing about this is? Tomb Raider made it's home on the Playstation. That was the console of choice for the series in its heyday. I really disagree with Micro$oft as a company in general, so it kinda sucks that Sony isn't being favored any longer. I agree wholeheartedly with this post however. I know you have to make money, but all of the console-specific deals kinda suck. I understand exclusive games to consoles (like inFamous, or Halo) but Tomb Raider is on every console.

RybatGrimes
18th Dec 2013, 23:25
Okay, if I can be really honest right now, Telekill, you're acting like a child.

You're mad at CD because Xbox gets things first? Do you realize how immature that is? I get the whole Underworld thing, (even though the horse has already been beat into a pile of ashes by now) it sucks that PS3 players don't get it but you know what, Sony didn't pay for it, and Microsoft did. There is no ~favored~ console by any developer, Sony just didn't care enough for their players to get them an exclusive, that's where you should be laying your blame. Sony doesn't care about the TR franchise anymore, and Microsoft does. This is a business, they want to entice people with exclusives to get them to buy things on their console to make money, and Sony just doesn't care enough about the TR franchise anymore to be paying for exclusives, because they have the Uncharted franchise now.

Most people like you who are still upset about this stuff are too big of Sony fans to realize that it's not CD that should be getting the brunt of it, but it's Sony that you should be mad at, they're the ones that aren't paying for it. Chances are they go to both companies and Sony probably turns them down, either that or Microsoft calls them up and offers to pay for an exclusive, either way, it's Sony that's not putting the money in to get exclusives for their players.

Like others have said it's a business, they're going to do what's going to make them the most money.

Driber
19th Dec 2013, 00:18
But you know what the funny thing about this is? Tomb Raider made it's home on the Playstation. That was the console of choice for the series in its heyday.

I really don't get why people still believe this myth :nut:

No, TR's "home" wasn't on PlayStation - TR1 was launched on PC, Saturn and PS1.

No, PlayStation was not the "console of choice from the start" - see above, plus Xbox didn't even exist until after the forth game.

DamianGraham
20th Dec 2013, 04:00
I really don't get why people still believe this myth :nut:

No, TR's "home" wasn't on PlayStation - TR1 was launched on PC, Saturn and PS1.

No, PlayStation was not the "console of choice from the start" - see above, plus Xbox didn't even exist until after the forth game.

I didn't say it was launched on playstation, but rather made it's home there, because that's when the game really took off and got massive attention. It was a new console, and Tomb Raider has always been considered one of the classic releases for ps1 (refer to the Playstation store right now, and the original Tomb Raider is listed under "playstation 1 classics") Sony treated the series well, and was honestly the console of choice to play it on (note: console, not pc) I just don't understand the shift from Sony to Micro$oft is all. (Not to say I don't understand that there is profit being made by being bought-off by MS, but still) The console war won't ever end it seems, and when you have a multi-platform game, that seems to favor one platform over the rest, it only adds fuel to that fire. I just hope CD has learned their lesson as far as releasing important SP DLC to one specific console over the others. Lara's Shadow had key plot elements that really wrapped the story up, and I never got to play it for that reason. -end rant-

Tecstar70
20th Dec 2013, 10:32
Lararocks, I see where you are coming from, but...

Just because Sony calls a game a Playstation Classic that doesn't mean it is. For everyone who likes TR there is someone who does not.

"Sony treated the series well, and was honestly the console of choice to play it on "
Not sure what you mean. The PS killed off other consoles yes, but how did Sony "treat it well"? As Driber says, MS wasn't around for the first 3.

CD doesn't favour one platform over another. They, like any other game company, will seek or be offered a deal that they will consider. Why? - to generate revenue and exposure for their products.

WRT Lara's Shadow, my understanding was it was technical reasons rather than favouring one platform over the other.

I really think people are missing the point here. If Sony proposed a deal with CD that was better than MS I believe they would take it. As an Xbox owner I wouldn't be bleating about it. Yes, I might think it sucked but that's the way the games industry works. If game devs don't make money, we don't get new games - that's the bottom line. If I have to get a DLC late (or even never) but get TR 11, 12, 13 (and they are great games!) then so be it. I think with the economic state of the games industry and the world in general any game dev can't afford to ensure their product is a commercial success and for CD to start favouring platforms wouldn't be helpful to them

Murphdawg1
18th Aug 2014, 00:39
Just a friendly reminder Square/Crystal:whistle:

Elliot Kane
18th Aug 2014, 01:21
Woah! Thread Necromancer! :D

Manabloom
18th Aug 2014, 03:36
Ever since the 7th gen started PC and PS keeps getting pooly optimized versions of TR, Thanks Nixxes!!!
For Crystal Dynamics, the xbox platform will always the lead platform.

Valenka
18th Aug 2014, 12:26
Sony already have Uncharted/Nathan Drake , so they will make no attempt to sign special deals with CD/Square.

Which is ludicrous, because if Sony were smart, they would have done what Microsoft did, have both Uncharted and Tomb Raider, and turn around and say, "Look at us now, suckers! Try and outdo us."

Tecstar70
18th Aug 2014, 12:46
Ever since the 7th gen started PC and PS keeps getting pooly optimized versions of TR, Thanks Nixxes!!!
For Crystal Dynamics, the xbox platform will always the lead platform.

Really? Can you explain this statement?

a_big_house
18th Aug 2014, 12:50
Which is ludicrous, because if Sony were smart, they would have done what Microsoft did, have both Uncharted and Tomb Raider, and turn around and say, "Look at us now, suckers! Try and outdo us."

/Appear

Noooooooo! :lol:

/Vanish

Driber
18th Aug 2014, 13:21
Really? Can you explain this statement?

Just ignore. He's known for his anti-PS drive-by posts, consisting of nothing but unsubstantial claims and blind assumptions.

Tecstar70
18th Aug 2014, 13:38
Just ignore. He's known for his anti-PS drive-by posts, consisting of nothing but unsubstantial claims and blind assumptions.

:thumb:

d1n0_xD
18th Aug 2014, 15:07
I really don't get why people still believe this myth :nut:

No, TR's "home" wasn't on PlayStation - TR1 was launched on PC, Saturn and PS1.

No, PlayStation was not the "console of choice from the start" - see above, plus Xbox didn't even exist until after the forth game.

Yeah, people are bummed out for being excluded while they're excluding too.

Valenka
18th Aug 2014, 16:52
I really don't get why people still believe this myth :nut:

No, TR's "home" wasn't on PlayStation - TR1 was launched on PC, Saturn and PS1.

No, PlayStation was not the "console of choice from the start" - see above, plus Xbox didn't even exist until after the forth game.


Yeah, people are bummed out for being excluded while they're excluding too.

Quite right.

Murphdawg1
18th Aug 2014, 17:35
I think most associate Tomb Raider with the original Playstation is because that's where they first played it and the Playstation community has given a lot of support to the franchise over the years.

Driber
18th Aug 2014, 17:40
Yeah, people are bummed out for being excluded while they're excluding too.

Eh? Who's "they"?

I'm not sure I understand your point, but you do know that this is an old thread, including the post you quoted, right?

Valenka
18th Aug 2014, 21:57
Eh? Who's "they"?

I'm not sure I understand your point, but you do know that this is an old thread, including the post you quoted, right?

I assume he meant those who are upset that the PS4 is currently left out while leaving out the other platforms that TR was on originally, implying that TR was on PS and PS only from go.

I think that was the point he was trying to make too; that some people are upset and claiming or implying that TR was originally on the PS1 first/only and failing to acknowledge the other platforms it was on.

At least, that's the impression I got from the post. :p

Weemanply109
18th Aug 2014, 22:37
Just ignore. He's known for his anti-PS drive-by posts, consisting of nothing but unsubstantial claims and blind assumptions.

Make sense. Nixxes have done excellent PC ports. TR scales really well across a good range of mid-end and low-end hardware. I don't see how anyone could call that a bad port. :lol: