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View Full Version : DX Universe box art released - 05/10/2013



JCpies
5th Oct 2013, 08:47
https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1376995_466733553441378_1746160661_n.jpg

SpecX
5th Oct 2013, 10:00
They will release the 'official' cover art after many weeks or months...

Karpaw
5th Oct 2013, 10:40
Stop acting entitled about your "immersive sim" causes. Let me explain something to you in this classic post.

Sure, the original Deus Ex revolutionized the FPS genre while Human Revolution managed to gain GOTY status from... uh, one Forbes contributor (http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2011/12/23/why-deus-ex-human-revolution-is-my-game-of-the-year/), I guess. Yes, DX1 still regularly appears at the top of "best games ever" lists after 13 years while HR will be lucky to have obtained a footnote in gaming history in 2027. But that was THEN, this is NOW! We've left the relics of the past behind, are forced to do things in new ways for unspecified reasons and this does not in any way constitute a logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery).

Why should the series continue to stake out and consolidate a distinct identity as the golden standard of immersive sims when it could simply do what everyone else is doing? Don't you realize modern gaming audiences want popamole cover shooters with cinematic flourishes and there is NO WAY people would take to the series if it were ANYTHING BUT THAT? Do you honestly think the industry's current obsession with streamlining is some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy and that if that's all a generation of gamers are served, they won't develop the ludological skills to handle games without extensive handholding to the detriment of the medium's sophistication and maturation? Well... IT'S NOT!

That's all for this classic post but rest assured I'll be back as armchair market analyst in future classic posts. Classic.

WildcatPhoenix
5th Oct 2013, 14:09
Stop acting entitled about your "immersive sim" causes. Let me explain something to you in this classic post.

Sure, the original Deus Ex revolutionized the FPS genre while Human Revolution managed to gain GOTY status from... uh, one Forbes contributor (http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2011/12/23/why-deus-ex-human-revolution-is-my-game-of-the-year/), I guess. Yes, DX1 still regularly appears at the top of "best games ever" lists after 13 years while HR will be lucky to have obtained a footnote in gaming history in 2027. But that was THEN, this is NOW! We've left the relics of the past behind, are forced to do things in new ways for unspecified reasons and this does not in any way constitute a logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery).

Why should the series continue to stake out and consolidate a distinct identity as the golden standard of immersive sims when it could simply do what everyone else is doing? Don't you realize modern gaming audiences want popamole cover shooters with cinematic flourishes and there is NO WAY people would take to the series if it were ANYTHING BUT THAT? Do you honestly think the industry's current obsession with streamlining is some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy and that if that's all a generation of gamers are served, they won't develop the ludological skills to handle games without extensive handholding to the detriment of the medium's sophistication and maturation? Well... IT'S NOT!

That's all for this classic post but rest assured I'll be back as armchair market analyst in future classic posts. Classic.

:lol: Classic indeed!

vallux
5th Oct 2013, 14:32
Needs more mentions of classic posts.

JCpies
5th Oct 2013, 14:59
Did I make anyone laugh?

Snake04
5th Oct 2013, 16:21
Lol that was fun.

HERESY
7th Oct 2013, 09:01
Needs more mentions of classic posts.

I'll be the judge of that, thanks.

Darthassin
7th Oct 2013, 09:07
I am hardcore DX1 fan and I consider DXHR fantastic DeusEx game. I also think that DXHR didn't get critical aclaim it deserved.

It's not the game's fault. It's this industry where titles like Mass Effect (which is soap opera with cheesy dialogue and frustrating cut-scene-straight-foreward-corridor-shooter mechanics), Assasins Creed (repetitive 3rd person platformer which each iteration brings almost nothing new ever year), Metal Gear Solid (bull**** story, dialogue even cheesier than ME and terrible gameplay mechanics, not to mention than more than half of the 12h game are loooong cutscenes), Call of Duty (nc) and of course Skyrim (huge as the ocean, shallowas a puddle, full of empty spaces, 8GB of data :D which means everything is the copy of the copy of the copy.... of something else, zero story, zero character development)are games of the fu..ing year!!!!

Angry nerds won't shut up about DXHR's mechanics being a little diffrent than in DX1. This forum is temple of whining, it's the paradise for malcontents. There was somewhere praise thread about DXHR and even there was more hate than glory. DXHR is badass. Has a depth, fantastic charctreisation, a lot of things to do, complex, multilayerd story, good gameplay ,mechanics and thousand of other great things. No game is perfect but this one is fu..ing close.

68_pie
7th Oct 2013, 12:48
I also think that DXHR didn't get critical aclaim it deserved.

:scratch:

Metacritic gives it 90/89/89 and PC Gamer UK put it 11 on their most recent 100 best games of all time list.

NB. Not that I think either of those are good measures of a game's quality but they tend to indicate the general response from mainstream sites.

CyberP
7th Oct 2013, 12:57
:scratch:

Metacritic gives it 90/89/89 and PC Gamer UK put it 11 on their most recent 100 best games of all time list.

NB. Not that I think either of those are good measures of a game's quality but they tend to indicate the general response from mainstream sites.
.

DX:HR does deserve more popularity than those games listed though as most of them really, really suck in aspects that are most important (gameplay), in my opinion as a long-time gamer.

DX:HR is far from perfect though, Darth. FAR. I made a praise thread, don't tempt me to write a constructive criticism one ;)

JCpies
7th Oct 2013, 13:06
Metal Gear Solid (bull**** story, dialogue even cheesier than ME and terrible gameplay mechanics, not to mention than more than half of the 12h game are loooong cutscenes)

Mate.

Metal Gear is meant to be cheesy.

68_pie
7th Oct 2013, 13:22
DX:HR does deserve more popularity

Critical aclaim =/= popularity. Most of those games are designed to appeal to a broader audience so obviously they are likely to be more popular.

CyberP
7th Oct 2013, 14:03
Critical aclaim =/= popularity. Most of those games are designed to appeal to a broader audience so obviously they are likely to be more popular.

You are right, but Metal Gear Solid doesn't exactly have mass appeal design yet is very popular. It's about the only series he listed I believe actually deserves it's popularity though, even if the game is more cutscenes than gameplay. It's a great series, but no Deus Ex ;)

Darthassin
7th Oct 2013, 14:35
DX:HR is far from perfect though, Darth. FAR. I made a praise thread, don't tempt me to write a constructive criticism one ;)

I agree DXHR is not perfect, but when I compare it to other games which are perfect 10/10 according to gaming journalism I am loosing my faith in this industry.

DXHR puts in shame almost in every aspect other lets say "hybrid" games like MassEffect, Dishonored, Bioshock and Metal Gear.

In my book title "Game of the fu..ing year!" should be given to the best game, not the most popular. But, hey, I might be wrong.

In 2011 where only two games which deserved that title: DXHR and the Witcher 2.

CyberP
7th Oct 2013, 14:40
I agree DXHR is not perfect, but when I compare it to other games which are perfect 10/10 according to gaming journalism I am loosing my faith in this industry.

DXHR puts in shame almost in every aspect other lets say "hybrid" games like MassEffect, Dishonored, Bioshock and Metal Gear.

In my book title "Game of the fu..ing year!" should be given to the best game, not the most popular. But, hey, I might be wrong.

Agreed.


In 2011 where only two games which deserved that title: DXHR and the Witcher 2.

My opinion:

2013= none are worthy of this special award so far

2012= none if it were up to me

2011= Dark Souls. DX:HR & Witcher 2 (maybe) are runner ups

2010= Fallout: New Vegas

Darthassin
7th Oct 2013, 14:42
2011= Dark Souls. DX:HR & Witcher 2 runner ups


Yes. I forgot about Dark Souls. Great game.

68_pie
7th Oct 2013, 15:11
I agree DXHR is not perfect, but when I compare it to other games which are perfect 10/10 according to gaming journalism I am loosing my faith in this industry.

Well, there's your problem. Stop caring so much about what they say. Find the site/writer who you agree with and let other people care about whatever they want.


2012= none if it were up to me

I swear you love ****ting on everything. What about XCOM:EU, Journey, Hotline Miami, Spec Ops, FTL, Legend of Grimrock, or Crusader Kings 2?

Darthassin
7th Oct 2013, 15:19
Well, there's your problem. Stop caring so much about what they say. Find the site/writer who you agree with and let other people care about whatever they want.


How can I not care what they say when they are clearly damaging gaming as a whole. Considering the quality of games in 2000 and looking at hardware improvements since then I can safely say that last couple of years have been fu...ing terrible in gaming and journalism had much to do with it.

CyberP
7th Oct 2013, 15:58
I swear you love ****ting on everything. What about XCOM:EU, Journey, Hotline Miami, Spec Ops, FTL, Legend of Grimrock, or Crusader Kings 2?

For me, awards should only go to the very best of games (unless said awards are focusing on specific aspects), and none of those listed that I have played are exceptional (in my opinion). Yes, it's "Game of the Year", so the title has to go to some game, and I haven't even played every game released in 2012 (of course), but for me 2012 was a very ****ty year.

OK, I'll throw the title at XCOM:EU. Definitely not Spec Ops though because gameplay.


How can I not care what they say when they are clearly damaging gaming as a whole. Considering the quality of games in 2000 and looking at hardware improvements since then I can safely say that last couple of years have been fu...ing terrible in gaming and journalism had much to do with it.

Indeed.

Tverdyj
7th Oct 2013, 19:50
I am hardcore DX1 fan and I consider DXHR fantastic DeusEx game. I also think that DXHR didn't get critical aclaim it deserved.

It's not the game's fault. It's this industry where titles like Mass Effect (which is soap opera with cheesy dialogue and frustrating cut-scene-straight-foreward-corridor-shooter mechanics), Assasins Creed (repetitive 3rd person platformer which each iteration brings almost nothing new ever year), Metal Gear Solid (bull**** story, dialogue even cheesier than ME and terrible gameplay mechanics, not to mention than more than half of the 12h game are loooong cutscenes), Call of Duty (nc) and of course Skyrim (huge as the ocean, shallowas a puddle, full of empty spaces, 8GB of data :D which means everything is the copy of the copy of the copy.... of something else, zero story, zero character development)are games of the fu..ing year!!!!

Angry nerds won't shut up about DXHR's mechanics being a little diffrent than in DX1. This forum is temple of whining, it's the paradise for malcontents. There was somewhere praise thread about DXHR and even there was more hate than glory. DXHR is badass. Has a depth, fantastic charctreisation, a lot of things to do, complex, multilayerd story, good gameplay ,mechanics and thousand of other great things. No game is perfect but this one is fu..ing close.

Look, I'd agree with a lot of what you say here, but... "fantastic characterization?"


Really?


Also, HR was a good game. One of the better ones we've had recently. But it had some deep flaws. not just from comparison with DX, but in general, as an FPS/RPG hybrid.

HERESY
7th Oct 2013, 22:36
XCOM EU is riddled with too many game breaking bugs and horrors to consider it as GOTY. Best for strategy or RPG? Valid. Overall? Nope.

CyberP
7th Oct 2013, 23:31
XCOM EU is riddled with too many game breaking bugs and horrors to consider it as GOTY. Best for strategy or RPG? Valid. Overall? Nope.

So is Fallout: New Vegas. It's still game of the ******* generation.

Shralla
8th Oct 2013, 00:04
I didn't really experience too many bugs in my time with XCOM. A handful, but nothing game-breaking. Maybe crashed once.

WildcatPhoenix
8th Oct 2013, 00:51
Look, I'd agree with a lot of what you say here, but... "fantastic characterization?"

Really?


Yeah, that one nearly caused a spit-take over here.

Ashpolt
8th Oct 2013, 00:53
I didn't really experience too many bugs in my time with XCOM. A handful, but nothing game-breaking. Maybe crashed once.

Ditto. I've sunk 110+ hours into that game (on PC) and have never encountered any bugs even approaching "game breaking".

The iOS port, on the other hand...

Darthassin
8th Oct 2013, 06:05
Look, I'd agree with a lot of what you say here, but... "fantastic characterization?"

Really?


Really. Almost all major characters have been crafted masterfuly IMO. Everyone has a backstory, secrets and beliefs. Every one has different opinions and has something interesting to say. Its interesting how different, believeble and dinamic are the relations between Adam and other characters. Sarif treats him like "son", Adam calls him a "boss". AJ and Pritchard hate eachother, Malik is in secret love with Adam, but he can't see it because he still have feelings for Megan........
If it isn't "fantastic characterization", I don't know what is. Could you please enlighten me.

Yeah, They forgot about Tyrants but that doesn't mean that they don't know how to do it. They had to cut Upper Hengsha and Montreal Hub, than move boss battles to other places so.... Tyrants end up empty shells due to production constraints. That doesn't mean EidosMontreal don't know how to craft believeble characters.

Tverdyj
8th Oct 2013, 13:32
Well, the first problem that completely shatters the whole perception of fantastic, realistic characters is Adam himself--purely due the fact that free-to-do-whatever-the-hell-he-wants (like double-punch hookers on streets of Detroit)-gameplay Adam is completely incompatible with pathologically-lovesick-puppy-Adam you see in cutscenes.

moving away from that, Sarif from cutscenes is not the same Sarif as the cold, dispassionate CEO who orders Adam all auged-up. Megan, Tyrants--these are disjointed bits of characters tossed in at random intervals.

Only really consistent characters in the entire game are Pritchard (who is a bitter jerk, disappointed that major network rejected his TV series idea), and Malik, who's there to fly you around.

You want good characterization? Play Witcher 1. endure Act 1, the swamp, and then give Alvin to T'riss, and pay attention how Shani treats you afterwards.

Darthassin
8th Oct 2013, 14:19
Well, the first problem that completely shatters the whole perception of fantastic, realistic characters is Adam himself--purely due the fact that free-to-do-whatever-the-hell-he-wants (like double-punch hookers on streets of Detroit)-gameplay Adam is completely incompatible with pathologically-lovesick-puppy-Adam you see in cutscenes.

moving away from that, Sarif from cutscenes is not the same Sarif as the cold, dispassionate CEO who orders Adam all auged-up. Megan, Tyrants--these are disjointed bits of characters tossed in at random intervals.

Only really consistent characters in the entire game are Pritchard (who is a bitter jerk, disappointed that major network rejected his TV series idea), and Malik, who's there to fly you around.

I don't agree with what you say.



You want good characterization? Play Witcher 1. endure Act 1, the swamp, and then give Alvin to T'riss, and pay attention how Shani treats you afterwards.

I played The Witcher more times that I can't even count. And I played it in its original language (Polish) which is far superior version than others (dialog is a little bit better and voice acting is far better which adds a lot to characters). I agree The Witcher has the best characterization. But DXHR isn't far behind.

68_pie
8th Oct 2013, 14:31
Well, the first problem that completely shatters the whole perception of fantastic, realistic characters is Adam himself--purely due the fact that free-to-do-whatever-the-hell-he-wants (like double-punch hookers on streets of Detroit)-gameplay Adam is completely incompatible with pathologically-lovesick-puppy-Adam you see in cutscenes.

I don't agree with what you say.

You really don't see the ludonarrative dissonance in this and how it destroys the characterization?

Darthassin
8th Oct 2013, 14:36
So if you play Adam as jacka** he should be also Adam jacka** in cutscenes? Right?

Tverdyj
8th Oct 2013, 14:57
I don't agree with what you say.



I played The Witcher more times that I can't even count. And I played it in its original language (Polish) which is far superior version than others (dialog is a little bit better and voice acting is far better which adds a lot to characters). I agree The Witcher has the best characterization. But DXHR isn't far behind.

I played both Witchers in Russian, which is the language in which I read the books. they got TV actors doing voiceovers, so it was a pretty good translation...

RE: Adam being different--DX positions itself as an RPG. it offers choice in how you play the game--including a choice to "be a jerk", as you've put it. I don't play it that way, but I've had a number of cringes when my sneaky, "never seen by anyone"-Adam walked out in the open like a total idiot, blundering into simple ambushes. Likewise, the fact that you have an option to play sidequests in a selfish, pragmatic matter, but lose all semblance of common sense the second Megan's name is mentioned felt COMPLETELY out of place. I was not sold on the idea that I WANT to find and "rescue" Megan. at all. But every time Adam spoke in a cutscene, that's just about ALL he talked about.


So if you play Adam as jacka** he should be also Adam jacka** in cutscenes? Right?

He should be flexible. And there should be CHOICES to make him sound pragmatic. If Adam was getting paid to find the missing scientists (or at least had an option to ask Sarif to pay him, leading to a kind of "they were your co-workers, you heartless SOB"-type answer) and not just doing it because ZOMG, MY BELOVED MEGAN IS IN TEH CLUTCHES OF UNKNOWN VILLAINS! HOW SHALL I EVER LIVE WITHOUT HER?, it'd have done miles to improve his credibility as character.

Darthassin
8th Oct 2013, 15:16
I played both Witchers in Russian, which is the language in which I read the books. they got TV actors doing voiceovers, so it was a pretty good translation...

RE: Adam being different--DX positions itself as an RPG. it offers choice in how you play the game--including a choice to "be a jerk", as you've put it. I don't play it that way, but I've had a number of cringes when my sneaky, "never seen by anyone"-Adam walked out in the open like a total idiot, blundering into simple ambushes. Likewise, the fact that you have an option to play sidequests in a selfish, pragmatic matter, but lose all semblance of common sense the second Megan's name is mentioned felt COMPLETELY out of place. I was not sold on the idea that I WANT to find and "rescue" Megan. at all. But every time Adam spoke in a cutscene, that's just about ALL he talked about.

You are exaggerating. I don't have a feel he speaks about Megan ALL the time.

And the cutscene that you brought up, has more to do with EM's gameplay ideas than with character development. But I agree that some cut scenes are comepletely dumb. Like for example when Adam meets Zao in her penthouse. Worst cutscene in the game - I personaly I would cut her face on a million pieces and make myself a puzzle, but Adam just talks to her while she fu*** him in the a**. I've got the feeling they really wanted Adam to confront Zao and then found himself in the trap. What they did was teribble, but it was more connected to their gameplay ideas than staying true to characterization. There are couple other cutscenes that bugged me, but there are tons of other things I like about characters.

Are you going to nitpick every mistake they made? Because I bet there a lot other people on this forum that have been doing it for 2 years. Are you aware that devs don't have the time or the money to create every possible permutation of a cutscene that perfectly fits gameplay of every single person?

Tverdyj
8th Oct 2013, 15:35
You are exaggerating. I don't have a feel he speaks about Megan ALL the time.

And the cutscene that you brought up, has more to do with EM's gameplay ideas than with character development. But I agree that some cut scenes are comepletely dumb. Like for example when Adam meets Zao in her penthouse. Worst cutscene in the game - I personaly I would cut her face on a million pieces and make myself a puzzle, but Adam just talks to her while she fu*** him in the a**. I've got the feeling they really wanted Adam to confront Zao and then found himself in the trap. What they did was teribble, but it was more connected to their gameplay ideas than staying true to characterization. There are couple other cutscenes that bugged me, but there are tons of other things I like about characters.

Are you going to nitpick every mistake they made? Because I bet there a lot other people on this forum that have been doing it for 2 years. Are you aware that devs don't have the time or the money to create every possible permutation of a cutscene that perfectly fits gameplay of every single person?

See my edit. And yes, I agree that they can't express EVERY single permutation. That being said, even the dreaded Bioware "Saint or Antichrist" approach would've been more nuanced.

my point is, without trying to nitpick (I've last played HR about a year ago, and that was just TML when I bought in on the holidays) is simply this--the Adam presented in the story (told through cutscenes) did not fit with the Adam I played. Yes, this is a fault of gameplay. But the story didn't work for me. I didn't feel the imperative to care about Megan. I didn't really care about the conspiracy. And I've already read the "Icarus Effect" novel by this point, so I knew Tyrants were more than just cardboard villains. All things being said, I didn't find the Player character believable. EM didn't sell me on a lovesick-puppy Adam with the way the whole Adam/Megan thing was handled. If it worked for you, great. but for me it didn't.

Darthassin
8th Oct 2013, 15:44
We both have our opinions which in some parts are similar and in other parts countrary. I see your point, I hope you see mine. It's hard for me to explain everything I want using internet forums, I would prefer normal conversation face to face when I discuss complicated things like aspects of game design. I know game has its flaws but I want to focus on the good sides, so let's just say: We agree to disagree. :D

Tverdyj
8th Oct 2013, 15:48
We both have our opinions which in some parts are similar and in other parts countrary. I see your point, I hope you see mine. It's hard for me to explain everything I want using internet forums, I would prefer normal conversation face to face when I discuss complicated things like aspects of game design. I know game has its flaws but I want to focus on the good sides, so let's just say: We agree to disagree. :D

indeed. Time would be better spent thinking up ways to improve the next game, building on HR, which was good in many ways, but not perfect