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CyberP
7th Aug 2013, 19:38
The purpose of this thread is to highlight the positives (in your opinion) of DX:HR's design and execution as well as to counter all the negativity from posters (including myself) regarding HR. Credit where it's due.

I am aware it has probably all been said 100 times before but whatever. There is too much negativity, most of it deserved, but praise is not common enough for this highly flawed masterpiece.

1. Rotating items in the inventory. A new level of depth to the legendary inventory tetris.
Is this true innovation or has it been done before? I think Resident Evil 4 had this feature? None of the classic Immersive Sims had it anyway. One innovation I approve of. 10/10 for this design decision.

2. Weapon design (all). Sounds, balance, animations, variety, modification, art style etc etc= 9.5/10.

3. Soundtrack. Whilst I am not fully satisfied with the soundtrack it is one of few stand out works amoung modern video game music production, which has become all too generic and boring. Combat Music lacked variety and was generic, however. 7.5/10

4. Voice acting. Great performances, 10/10. Shame the lines written for the VA's/characters where not so excellent in most instances but still above average for video games.

5. Verbal boss battles. Immersive. Entertaining. Costly. 10/10. Would like to see a streamlined work process (not steamlined quality!) to justify their existence in DX4. Would also like to see them have more impact regarding choice and consequence design.

6. AI. Brilliant. For a Deus Ex game where there are so many AI states and player actions to consider they did a very good job. More variety (Enemy types, combat dialogue) and better reactions to player actions would have been better though. Third person cover is to blame for the lack of challenge unfortunately, but that doesn't count to the scoring of the AI itself.
The core file for DX1's AI code is huge, I'd be interested in seeing HR's. 9/10.

7. Ammo stacking in inventory. This should have probably been in the original DX. Another thing they looked to Resident Evil 4 for most likely. Shame they never looked at Deus Ex and it's mostly masterful design properly though (whoops there's that negativity again ;)) Stacking values were unbalanced though, for some. 9/10.

8. Hacking mini-game. A outstanding mini-game ruined by it's supporting game systems. Difficulty of it should have scaled with game difficulty level. -tell me a story=default capture time, give me a challenge=-1 second to capture, Give Me Deus Ex=-2 seconds. for example. 9.5/10 for the game itself only.

9. Art quality. Don't agree with the style in most cases, but the quality is great. 8/10. Style 6/10 (not suitable for DX at all but is unique and minor things such as common objects are suitable). The former would be 10/10 if only there wasn't a noticable amount of copy n paste, but that would probably come under level design as there is surely enough textures etc for the level designers to get creative, if not then the artists should have made more.

10. Level Design. Great, but let down by game systems: hacking systems, highlighting & objective markers (the game is not designed with turning them off in mind so much), all augs allowed in one playthrough, repetitive art style, no lockpicking etc. Forgetting all that:
-Level design is lacking in environmental hazards to overcome as well as general challenge in traversing the levels.
-Vents were rediculously overdone.
-Levels were also lacking in events & lacking in friendly NPC's to encounter in hostile zones,.
-Lacking in hidden content but is just about satisfactory in that regard, though not DX enough.
-Bots are nowhere near common enough and the game throws EMP grenades at you. Turrets are also fairly rare and never ceiling mounted. If some were ceiling mounted they would be a greater threat.
-Returning to the two hubs was a bore, with a few exceptions such as the Detroit Convention Center. We should have also only returned to Detroit, not Hengsha too for the sake of variety.
-Copy n paste (linked with art direction).
-All criticism of Panchaea minus the ending and boss battle could have been avoided if it was more about overcoming security systems, bots etc than mowing down or running past augbies. Considerably more security, less augbies and the level could have been a winner.
6/10 in comparison to Deus Ex and other older games, 8.5/10 by modern standards.

Some negative follow-ups couldn't be avoided. #10 was more negative than positive so I stopped there.

Any more praise, anyone? Show EM some love. Inspire them to make Deus Ex 4 the greatest game of all time.
I could help them with that directly but my services are in high demand at the moment.
They are not, but they really should be ;)

vallux
7th Aug 2013, 19:54
I'll only buy DX4 if it has day one HERESY dlc. Oh and more triangle sauce.

Shralla
7th Aug 2013, 20:09
I like the way putting a laser sight on the pistol misaligns the iron sights, thus making it the most useful attachment in the game.

I like the way I sometimes stick inside corners when I'm moving along the wall. It prevents me from leaning out to shoot at guys so I never have to worry about accidentally being seen!

I like the way you can throw a grenade in the final level and then not be attacked by the augmentation zombies. That plot line was stupid so I'm glad they gave you a way to skip through it.

I also like the way they give you enough XP to get almost all the augmentations in one playthrough. I'm a busy man, and I don't have forever to replay a game just to try out the different augs, so I'm pumped that they decided to go back on what they were saying during development.

CyberP
7th Aug 2013, 20:12
I like....

http://cdn2.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1208/NoWhining_1506697.jpg

Seriously, all legit complaints, but If they are reading then they have got the message.

AlexOfSpades
7th Aug 2013, 20:14
Hard to say anything that CyberP hasnt covered yet. I admit that the weapon design is fantastic - overall the artwork is incredible. The clothes, the armors, the weapons - Eliza's dress is amazing.

I also like how i have the option to simply not use the cover system. Not every cover-based game has this option.

68_pie
7th Aug 2013, 22:52
Oh wow, because this is a new idea for a thread...

WildcatPhoenix
7th Aug 2013, 23:16
I am aware it has probably all been said 100 times before but whatever. There is too much negativity, most of it deserved, but praise is not common enough for this highly flawed masterpiece.


Is this really necessary? Human Revolution got plenty of praise from the gaming press and most players after release. As for myself, I'd consider it a solid game, but "flawed masterpiece?" No. Not even close. I don't throw around the term "masterpiece" lightly, and HR simply does not qualify.




3. Soundtrack. Whilst I am not fully satisfied with the soundtrack it is one of few stand out works amoung modern video game music production, which has become all too generic and boring. Combat Music lacked variety and was generic, however. 7.5/10


I found the soundtrack to be a major weakness, honestly. I can't remember a single musical moment in DXHR. Other than the main theme (which I enjoyed), it was all pretty much flavorless ambient synth. There's just no comparison to Alexander Brandon's work in DX1.



4. Voice acting. Great performances, 10/10. Shame the lines written for the VA's/characters where not so excellent in most instances but still above average for video games.


My issues are more with the writing, but this is definitely one area where DXHR blows DX1 away (man, the original has some seriously terrible voice acting interspersed with a few gems!).



5. Verbal boss battles. Immersive. Entertaining. Costly. 10/10. Would like to see a streamlined work process (not steamlined quality!) to justify their existence in DX4. Would also like to see them have more impact regarding choice and consequence design.


One of DXHR's precious few innovations, and a much appreciated one. Hope to see it continued and expanded upon in any sequels.



8. Hacking mini-game. A outstanding mini-game ruined by it's supporting game systems. Difficulty of it should have scaled with game difficulty level. -tell me a story=default capture time, give me a challenge=-1 second to capture, Give Me Deus Ex=-2 seconds. for example. 9.5/10 for the game itself only.


An interesting and enjoyable idea, but poorly executed. I'm sorry, it's utterly ridiculous to assume that mechanical locks will completely disappear by 2027, then magically reappear in 2052.



9. Art quality. Don't agree with the style in most cases, but the quality is great. 8/10. Style 6/10 (not suitable for DX at all but is unique and minor things such as common objects are suitable). The former would be 10/10 if only there wasn't a noticable amount of copy n paste, but that would probably come under level design as there is surely enough textures etc for the level designers to get creative, if not then the artists should have made more.


I consider this a noble failure. Well-intentioned, creative, but a failure nonetheless. I didn't care for the look of the "cyber-Renaissance," and everything in general felt far too space-age in comparison to the gritty familiarity of technology and fashion in DX1.



I admit that the weapon design is fantastic - overall the artwork is incredible. The clothes, the armors, the weapons - Eliza's dress is amazing.
.

The artwork is certainly cohesive and interesting, but is it Deus Ex? It felt to me like a completely different game universe, and that's why I have a very hard time even acknowledging the events, characters, and lore of DXHR as connected to those of DX1.

CyberP
8th Aug 2013, 00:39
Oh wow, because this is a new idea for a thread...

Deal with it.

Wouldn't you rather see "valid" praise than "Awesome, we can hack more doors for XP!" & "Yay, NG+ is featured in the DC, good job EM!"?


Is this really necessary?

Yes.

-Too much negativity. Very often valid points, but you'd think they'd created something worse than IW (hmm, that's debatable). So:
-Credit where it's due.
-People are in agreement on a lot of things here, so lets see if we can agree on the positive things about HR too. As for most "professional reviews" on DX:HR, I do not agree with most of their opinions.
-Community-Dev relations. People speak of communications. I'd be very upset towards a community of consistent negativity toward my game, even if the points were valid more often than not. There will always be naysayers but this game doesn't deserve this, to this scale at least. Granted DX doesn't deserve the abuse (mobile games, lack of respect for the IP in general (that's including aspects of HR)) either, but I doubt the majority of the devs had a say in that.
-Inspire them to do better. They were a fresh team, havent we been a little hard on the newbies? I believe in them. Most of my issues with the game is probably the fault of JFD & JJB alone, as well as some nameless suit I suspect. So, again, credit where it's due.


The artwork [is certainly cohesive and interesting, but is it Deus Ex? It felt to me like a completely different game universe, and that's why I have a very hard time even acknowledging the events, characters, and lore of DXHR as connected to those of DX1.

Well, no. I already mentioned most of it was not suitable for this series. They kind of took a dump (or piss if you prefer ;)) on it really, but still, the fault of JJB & JFD I suspect. Stating the quality was good is recognition of those who didn't have a say in the theme as well as recognition of the quality of JJB's work, no matter how inane.

As for the aesthetics of weapons, I very much applaud them here. This is one rare instance where I believe DX got it wrong. For example, the P.E.P.S (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_Energy_Projectile) is a weapon currently in development. Weapons research & development advances at a rapid pace. By 2052, standard issue sidearms for military & security personnel in developed nations will not be standard 10mm pistols, but multi-purpose weapons/tools with functionality for lethal or non-lethal, for one. A swiss army gun.
However, I also see this flaw of DX's as a good thing: maybe it was intentional even as heatseeking bullets, Nano death cannons, all-in-one guns or even universal ammo do not make for good gameplay, but more futuristic-looking weapons would have been welcome.
Heck, even the current Corner Shot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CornerShot) would make for crappy gameplay, much like HR's heatseeking assault rifle attachment. Just hide around a corner/in cover and open fire, killing without even exposing yourself.

As for the soundtrack, it may be dull or generic in places but it is to an acceptable level, especially by today's crappy standards.

I will say I agree on your other points though, mostly, but you have destroyed my good intentions here, you wildcat.


but "flawed masterpiece?" No. Not even close.


I said "highly flawed masterpiece", which may be contradictory, but it just feels right. There is a lot of good in this game amoung all the bad.

Psychomorph
8th Aug 2013, 01:48
The suspense music is great.

The whole gathering intel and uncovering secret plot thing is great.

Level design and art is great.

Game was very immersive, despite the too many flaws to mention.

CyberP
8th Aug 2013, 02:00
The suspense music is great.

The whole gathering intel and uncovering secret plot thing is great.

Level design and art is great.

Game was very immersive, despite the too many flaws to mention.

Get out of here, Denton Taffer, your opinion bears no relevence in these parts :lol: JK. :D

nomotog
8th Aug 2013, 02:31
It's Deus Ex. There is no higher complement then that.

AlexOfSpades
8th Aug 2013, 03:04
I found the soundtrack to be a major weakness, honestly. I can't remember a single musical moment in DXHR. Other than the main theme (which I enjoyed), it was all pretty much flavorless ambient synth. There's just no comparison to Alexander Brandon's work in DX1.


Nothing compares to DX1's soundtrack. It really kicks ass. UNATCO, Hong Kong and Paris Cathedral comes to mind.

Edit: I specially liked the song used in the Trailer for DX:HR, and the hacking theme.



The artwork is certainly cohesive and interesting, but is it Deus Ex? It felt to me like a completely different game universe, and that's why I have a very hard time even acknowledging the events, characters, and lore of DXHR as connected to those of DX1.

Yeah. DX:HR was too futuristic to a point i have a hard time imagining a reason for everything to go back to "normal" as it was in the first game. Speaking of which, if you were leading a Deus Ex 1 modern engine remake project, would you change the art direction? Would you make NY more Blade-Runner or keep the original design?

I still dont have my personal answer to that.

Jerion
8th Aug 2013, 03:14
Nothing compares to DX1's soundtrack. It really kicks ass. UNATCO, Hong Kong and Paris Cathedral comes to mind.

Edit: I specially liked the song used in the Trailer for DX:HR, and the hacking theme.


Eh. DX1's soundtrack had some extremely strong material and some kinda weak material. It was a mixed bag; fortunately, the best parts were also both used in common areas and made very memorable. It's very easy to remember the NYC Streets theme. The Underworld Tavern music is dull and forgettable by comparison (seriously, listen to it, there's really not much there). DX:HR's soundtrack went in a very different direction, overall a strong one. Indistinct and generic? A little bit, but it also worked remarkably well to set the tone for each and every moment. Something halfway between the two would just about do it.

WildcatPhoenix
8th Aug 2013, 03:18
Speaking of which, if you were leading a Deus Ex 1 modern engine remake project, would you change the art direction? Would you make NY more Blade-Runner or keep the original design?

I still dont have my personal answer to that.

I'd stick to the original aesthetic. Grimy, crumbling, graffiti-covered brick walls in NYC and Paris, neon-jungle in Hong Kong, and military concrete in places like Vandenberg and Area 51. You could easily upgrade the sharpness and fidelity of the graphics without making everything look like a scene out of Star Trek.

Shralla
8th Aug 2013, 04:48
I found the soundtrack to be a major weakness, honestly. I can't remember a single musical moment in DXHR. Other than the main theme (which I enjoyed), it was all pretty much flavorless ambient synth. There's just no comparison to Alexander Brandon's work in DX1.

I wasn't going to add any more negativity, but this. The music in the game was straight boring. The relatively sudden focus of the gaming industry on providing you with an ambient and homogenous soundtrack rather than an iconic one is borderline toxic to not only aspiring video game composers but also to the actual games themselves. You could play any piece of music from Human Revolution and there is a 0% chance I would be able to identify where it was featured. There's just this obsession with making the music "blend in" when really it should stand out and leave an identifying stamp on every scene. Where would Star Wars be if not for John Williams' iconic melodies (regardless of him practically stealing them straight from Gustav Holst)?

As far as aspiring composers go, ambient tracks are simple and boring to produce. There's no real challenge to producing the music heard in Human Revolution. I know people making more original, interesting, and talented stuff in their free time. Quite frankly, the music in the first one was more complex and original in arrangement than anything in Human Revolution. People are learning all about different music to make cool video game soundtracks and then even if they get hired, they just get told to make a nice slow, four-tone pseudo-orchestral piece. It's like that scene in Forgetting Sarah Marshall where they're telling Jason Segel to just write "dark, ominous tones."

This whole ambient stuff is for the birds. It doesn't belong as a soundtrack except to an ambient game. Soundtracks should be memorable and iconic, and Human Revolution's is neither.


I'm genuinely sorry to poop in your thread like this CyberP, I appreciate what you were doing here, but the soundtrack is just not a winner.

Jerion
8th Aug 2013, 05:18
I'm genuinely sorry to poop in your thread like this CyberP, I appreciate what you were doing here, but the soundtrack is just not a winner.

Okay. So you didn't enjoy it. Yet nobody was forcing you to post a diatribe of any sort in this thread; you could have simply left it at that. There was no need to make that sort of negative post in a thread such as this one.

WildcatPhoenix
8th Aug 2013, 05:21
Okay. So you didn't enjoy it. Yet nobody was forcing you to post a diatribe of any sort in this thread; you could have simply left it at that. There was no need to post that sort of negative notion in a thread such as this one.

I apologize as well. I kinda got the Negativity Train rolling again.

I guess I get what we're trying to do here. DX4 should at least be in the planning stages, and it's just as productive to talk about the things DXHR got right as it is to point out its flaws. I just don't see Human Revolution's soundtrack or art style as one of those positive things at all.

AlexOfSpades
8th Aug 2013, 05:27
The conversation system in DX:HR destroys the first game's in all aspects. Actually, i may even go as far as saying its better than Fallout and Mass Effect's conversation systems too.

68_pie
8th Aug 2013, 06:56
Okay. So you didn't enjoy it. Yet nobody was forcing you to post a diatribe of any sort in this thread; you could have simply left it at that. There was no need to make that sort of negative post in a thread such as this one.

Does that mean that I can make a negative thread and no one is allowed to post anything positive in it?

JCpies
8th Aug 2013, 07:30
An interesting and enjoyable idea, but poorly executed. I'm sorry, it's utterly ridiculous to assume that mechanical locks will completely disappear by 2027, then magically reappear in 2052.

There are still conventional locks, you just can't open those doors.

Darthassin
8th Aug 2013, 07:40
IMO DXHR is masterpiece with some scars, and here is why:

+++ fantastic character development: AJ, Sarif, Malik, Pritchard, Taggart, Sandoval, Zeke, Tong, Haas, Burke, Quin and Darrow - all of them masterfuly crafted.

+++ deep, interesting dialog, iconic voice acting (some people might don't like sound of AJ's voice but acting itself is brilliant)

+++ best conversation system in any game ever made, emotionaly engaging.

+++ all aspects od weapons: variety, diffrent tactical options, design, sounds...

+++ motivation to play the game are both immersive story and great gameplay (its very rare right now to have great story and great gameplay at the same time, usually one of those aspects sucks like f.e. Bioshock Infinite = great story, frustrating gameplay, or Dishonored = boring, shallow, predictible, cliche story with terrible narrative and interesting gameplay)

+++ great visuals = fantastic art direction + huge attention to details + great animations + old engine put to maximal it's potential

+++ almost all aspects of the game fit perfectly together: mechanics support story and vice versa

+++ overall scale of the game: 20 - 50 h gameplay with all the DLCs (its about twice as big as DX1), look at other hybrid games like bioshock or dishonored. Their lenght is laughable comaring to DXHR. It took me 20 hours to finish Dishonored 3 times: first playthrough, completionist, speedrun. Bioshock = 20 hrs if you want to do absolutely everything and take your time to look at art design in the game.

+++ good level design especially in missing link, challenging puzzles, this is thinking man's game

+++ a lot of great ideas has been put into the game and it really works, game has a lot of content

Things to improve which they already been fixed in some ways in Missing link:

--- better character develpment of antagonists

-- I personaly was a little bit frustrated about Adam being couple steps behind me in terms of understanding of what happens in the game (I propably am not clear here enough so ... let me explain: f.e. when proxi hacker kills himslef in Sarif PLant - I personaly know someone else helped him to do it, but Adam thinks he did really kill himself. Or Adam can be dumb sometimes - I would never have let Zao tricked me like this in her penthouse, I would cut her face on the million pieces and make myself a puzzle if she didn't give me answers. Or Patinet X story...)

- There is to much computers in the game to hack and most of them are computers with emails not security terminals and IMO it should be othe way around - it would make gameplay more interesting.

- I wolud like to get more RPG elements like skill system and more conversations with random people

- more secret areas please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- side quest should have some impact on the main story.

-------- Final level of the game, idea of zombies, 4 buttons (In those topics everything has beeen said already)

Overall my score of the game: DXHR: 9.0/10. DXHRML:9.0/10. Prediction for DXHRDC: 9.5/10.
The best game in years along with The Witcher 2.

SpecX
8th Aug 2013, 08:15
+ Great weapons and their designs with the smoothest reloading animations
+ Decent good-looking art style, atmosphere, and visuals
+ Aim down sights and sprint
+ Good character concept
+ 2D Map

- Game fails as a Deus Ex game (In the first two DX games, you were the unique person in the world whose actions would change the “fate of the world”. In Human Revolution, you just run after Megan Reed.)
- Console Port
- Somewhat has a less replay value
- You cannot talk to multiple characters in one conversation, as you were able to in the first game.
- You get more XP if you choose the non-lethal way, thus making it unexciting for killers.
- Too linear and shorter than the original (Deus Ex (http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2486) is longer than Human Revolution (http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2489).)
- Augmentations dumbed down for consoles and only four can be toggled
- No other enemies except humans and robots
- Lacks the variety of locations (in the first game, you travel to various countries)
- Very bad level designs of sewers (copy and pasted)
- Crossbow ammo scarce and Plasma Rifle appears at the near end of the game
- Forgettable music/soundtrack
- Certain unescapable talking conversations
- No swimming or radiation/hazard of environment like the first game
- Hacking is fun but too rewarding. The rewards should have been hidden in a cache on the other side of the keypad and would be unlocked by default but progressively locks the longer you hack for or something.
- No lean feature like the first game
- No using crates and breaking them as resources
- Incoming transmission is not live and only shows a portrait.
- One button to push for the endings
- No nanokey rings, lockpicks, or multitools like the first game
- No "Images" like the first game

Darthassin
8th Aug 2013, 08:58
- Too linear and shorter than the original (Deus Ex (http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2486) is longer than Human Revolution (http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2489).)


Links you provided shows that DX1 is shorter than DXHR alone and DXHR+DLCs. Completionist lenghts show that. DXHR is bigger. Both have aproximetly same number of maps, but DXHR has longer conversations, bigger maps, hacking is longer, sneakicng and combat takes more time than in DX1. Also there is more sidequsts and they are much more complicaded in DXHR.

My first playthroughs: DX1: 24 hrs, DXHR 43 hrs + DXHRML: 6 hrs. And I am completionist kind of guy.

DXHR is more nonlinear in terms of gameplay and equaly linear in terms of story.

SpecX
8th Aug 2013, 09:10
I was referring to main story.

DXHR isn’t too non-linear and the level design could have been better.

CyberP
8th Aug 2013, 10:44
- You get more XP if you choose the non-lethal way, thus making it unexciting for killers.

Even though there shouldn't have been XP for playstyles at all, at least the shooting playstyle prolongs the time before you get all the relevent augs.
But yes, bad design.


- Too linear and shorter than the original (Deus Ex (http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2486) is longer than Human Revolution (http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2489).)

Completely agreed going off of my primary playstyle for both. There are 60+ maps in DX1, all packed with content.
HR you return to two hubs where little has changed. Well, as I said before, return to Detroit was satisfactory, but Hengsha, no.


- Augmentations dumbed down for consoles and only four can be toggled

Consoles have nothing to do with it. If they wanted to they could have had more active augs in the game. Instead they assigned the only 4 active augs all to the d-pad, when they could have had a more complex yet fluid system:

Up=Toggle on/off specific aug.
Left=Previous Aug
Right=Next Aug
Down=Deactivate all active augs

Granted, this would require cycling to a specific aug, but this isn't a problem with practice (just imagine it like Half-Life's weapon swap system) and is worth it for more gameplay depth.

Anyway, agreed on everything else you said.


I'm genuinely sorry to poop in your thread like this CyberP, I appreciate what you were doing here, but the soundtrack is just not a winner.

No worries, Shrally (:)). Negativity is inevitable, but I wanted people to focus on praise and maybe follow up with negativity, at least.
Free speech here, say as you please, just be careful to not get tagged by the NSA's or GCHQ's search algorithms :cool: (whoops, I probably just got tagged with that).

@Jerion: I didn't like the Underworld Bar Music at first, but of the three tracks I warmed to this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJAK_wD1_N4

It says "Paris Club 2", but being the music producer of Revision and a Deus Ex fan you'll know this is Underworld 2nd visit music.

And though some of the Bar/Club music is strange (all made by Reeves Gabrels, and that's all the man contributed to DX), it is unique and stands out. Way better than anything generic, who knows what will be popular music in Bars & clubs in the future. Whatever it is I hope it's not dubstep or the pop music getting pumped out now :/

Lucifer
8th Aug 2013, 11:06
We can add more

- its a port ,graphics doesnt fly on todays pc standards
- lack of European cities I Expected German city, wanted to know more about that nazis gold
- all cities looks the same , you wont notice any difference playing entire game.
- all the cities in HR are dead, no action on the streets In DX 1 NSF troops were figihting with UNATCO,
- no roof tops
- no images blueprints schametics
- everything is highlighted
- ugly flying vehicle with Malik on the board .One of the worst characters in game
- the locations in DX are so big that in HR are so small
and more

CyberP
8th Aug 2013, 11:16
- its a port ,graphics doesnt fly on todays pc standarts

Hey, Graphics whore, you cannot have it all. It's a Deus Ex game, complex. DX1 looked crap by 2000's standards. Compare it to the console game Metal Gear Solid 2 which came out just one year after DX and is such a step up in comparison. You a DX fan or not? We crave a deep experience and graphics fidelity should be sacrificed as a result. Even Half Life Looked better than DX which came out 2 years before.


- lack of Europen cities I Expected German city, wanted to know more about that nazis gold

Not a valid complaint.


- all cities looks the same , you wont notice any difference playing entire game.

There are differences, but this is valid. Everything does look too similar mainly due to the gold theme.


- all the cities in HR are dead, no action on the streets In DX 1 NSF troops were figihting with Unatco,

Even though the streets are heavily populated, they do feel dead due to the moving mannequin NPCs.
However, there is action to be had in the streets on numerous occasions, but never people fighting eachother except the few scripted placements such as cops arresting punks during the riots.


- no roof tops

False, but the game did lack vertical gameplay at times.

Lucifer
8th Aug 2013, 11:36
and I dont understand what zombies are doing in DX. Aliens yes ,but zombies?Thats new stupid idea.

CyberP
8th Aug 2013, 11:44
and I dont understand what zombies are doing in DX. Aliens yes ,but zombies?Thats new stupid idea.

Actually, in my opinion as a plot device it was a good idea. As an enemy type in gameplay, no. However, if they were just a minor enemy and instead Panchaea was akin to a heavily fortified and secure fortress, then that would have been great.

Darthassin
8th Aug 2013, 12:13
I have been visiting this forum for 3 years and 90% of comments are "hate comments" and 10% are "prise comments".

That is strange IMHO because the game is huge and does 90% things right and 10% things wrong.

You will never stop whining, won't you? Even in the praise thread.

vb4
8th Aug 2013, 12:32
The conversation system in DX:HR destroys the first game's in all aspects. Actually, i may even go as far as saying its better than Fallout and Mass Effect's conversation systems too.

Getting a better conversation system than Mass Effect is not all that difficult.
I got the first game and, other than the fact that it was obviously aimed at horny teenagers, the conversation system weirded me out to extreme extent. It felt like my game was in some way possessed, because often the dialogue choices felt entirely unconnected to what your character would end up saying.

Anyway, as for positive aspects in this game:
- An upgrade system that mostly keeps with upgrades that actually affect gameplay. Higher jumping, invisibility, removal of recoil/sway, tracking bullets, seeing through walls, etc.
It's unfortunate that the system wasn't taken further.
- Nice weaponry (though we could really do without the bugs and semi-broken balance)
- The secondary health limit (200 instead of 100) - It's a nice idea to be able to stock up on health pickups in order to prepare for combat. Too bad that damage values in the game were too high for it to have much of an impact. Less hitscan weaponry could've helped, but then there would be complaints of the ultra-realism crowd.
- The ability to affect the plot slightly (like not getting the chip and then having a changed boss fight). I wish there would have been more like that, though. And let's forget the police station murder forever - I hope the devs learned their lesson on that major break of logic.
- The ability to break doors. It's too bad that it's not always obvious when a door has a health bar, but I enjoyed simply throwing grenades at some of them. Same goes for breakable walls, though I wish there was highlighting even without the wall punch upgrade.
- The cheap ways of winning the boss fights. Seriously, I loved how you could use the typhoon on the first two (that thing wasn't useful for anything else, so I guess it was intended as "skip boss" ability) and how you could just punch out the third one. This is not sarcasm - The bosses may have been ****, but the typhoon was the correct reaction to this otherwise annoying mess.
- Random enemy conversations, especially the plot relevant ones.
- The ability to snipe. I would've preferred more enemies and more long-range interaction, but it was nice that you could do this at all. Too many games have pointless sniper weaponry.
- The apartments in the first hub. These are twice as funny when you find them without the necessary plot (like the apartment full of mines).
- Conversation bosses
- The German version (Well, except for certain translation ****ups. Please use someone who isn't an amateur in the next German translation. If I ever read "Fl├╝ssigantrieb" ("Liquid propulsion") for "wetware drive" again, I'll shoot someone) had nice voice acting

I haven't checked up on current information for the Director's Cut, so I hope that at least the weapon bugs are fixed.
And I have high hopes for the next game.

Edit:
As it seems that we now also have complaints in here...
- Multi-monitor support is a joke from what I've read (I have two monitors and I wondered if I should get the PC version for that function)
- EXP system. 'nuff said.

AlexOfSpades
8th Aug 2013, 16:27
Getting a better conversation system than Mass Effect is not all that difficult.
I got the first game and, other than the fact that it was obviously aimed at horny teenagers,

I really dont get this complaint. I mean, i recall talking to Garrus about his past - when he mentions the salarian organ-cloner guy, and some other great conversations (Sovereign's first appearance comes to mind). Most of the game's conversations are actually pretty good, and in my opinion the romance is really tangential. If Liara comes with the "oh Shepard you're so incredible", deal with her the same way you'd deal if you were a Commander and an alien chick would be in love with you IRL. What would you do? You have the option to tell her that its a military ship and you're not interested in any type of relationships with your crew. There, it ends there.

People say that Mass Effect was a "sim-dating with shooter mechanics" but it makes me think they really chased the romance scenes just so they could complain about them. If you dont go after them by talking to Liara, there really isnt any hint of romance in the game.


the conversation system weirded me out to extreme extent. It felt like my game was in some way possessed, because often the dialogue choices felt entirely unconnected to what your character would end up saying.

Yeah. THIS. Ugh, i hate it. I recall clicking a a conversation option like "You should avoid doing that in the future" and instead, Shepard headbutted the guy i was talking to and said "If you do this again, you'll deal with me". What the hell? I didnt want to be violent. It was ridiculous. I have re-loaded teh game just to re-do certain conversations just because of this. Why dont the buttons show what my character is going to say? Its really an absurd oversight.

DXHR got it right, perfectly. No complaints. Oh, another game that nails down conversations perfectly? Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

CyberP
8th Aug 2013, 16:53
I have been visiting this forum for 3 years and 90% of comments are "hate comments" and 10% are "prise comments".

That is strange IMHO because the game is huge and does 90% things right and 10% things wrong.

You will never stop whining, won't you? Even in the praise thread.

65% they got right, 35% wrong. In my opinion of course. But I am very critical of games and have high expectations.
The majority of the whining is justified imo, especially because of the direction EM have been heading.
This thread is primarily for balance, because praise is deserved in places.
I doubt the whining (or constructive criticism at times) will stop, at least until EM give us some hope.
"Be patient" is all we have to go off of for now. I do believe in their abilities but I am not sure if we share many similarities in our opinions of what a Deus Ex game should be.
Greater depth would be a good result next time around. The masses are used to games with some depth now (Skyrim, Bioshock, Dishonored, DX:HR etc), so if EM offer the next step up (on the same level as classic Immersive Sims), people will be blown away. But it also has to be well designed depth. Every design decision counts.
If they just hired myself & my partner we could make the "Fan's Cut" DLC (placeholder title), going off of my own standards as well as community input then everybody would be satisfied. Most of it would be code and level design alterations so it wouldn't even need to cost much at all besides a bit of professional help from time to time.

Am I a dreamer or what, but it certainly would setup for better community-dev relations and win a lot of the fans back as well as make them some profits :)

HERESY
8th Aug 2013, 18:11
I have been visiting this forum for 3 years and 90% of comments are "hate comments" and 10% are "prise comments".

That is strange IMHO because the game is huge and does 90% things right and 10% things wrong.

You will never stop whining, won't you? Even in the praise thread.

Q4T

sonicsidewinder
8th Aug 2013, 18:22
I loved that it spawned this forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ULVQOneeZE

Lucifer
10th Aug 2013, 09:55
I agree with you all there is a lot of mess in HR.

Spyhopping
11th Aug 2013, 10:23
^Mess? I'm guessing you aren't referring to the clutter, but the designer rubbish lying around everywhere was wonderful.

It's been a while since I've had a playthough, so whenever I need to look at the big picture and remind myself why HR was a great game, or if I want to persuade someone to try it, I just think of the Hengsha hub. First discovering the environment, I was wandering around in awe. A great big wave of it rushed over me when I was exploring the rooftops. It was rich, organic, and so very cyberpunk. I don't agree with earlier comments in this thread that the soundtrack was simple and passive- the original DX did have much more punchy melodies, but the HR tracks created a wonderful atmosphere, and some of the tracks were very memorable. Perhaps it's down to taste.

I know this isn't a criticism thread, but I'll mention one or two things. In the next game I'd like to see AI which reacts in a smarter way to sneaky playthroughs. Not just ebooks lying around, I want to be able to read paper still, to pick up handwritten notes and sketches of environments- lots more mission specific and unique items for that matter. Also, more world building media and NPC conversation peripheral to the main themes of the game.

Good call for the thread CyberP. Nice and constructive.

Ilves
11th Aug 2013, 16:52
Also, more world building media and NPC conversation peripheral to the main themes of the game.



...in the vein of the original's lore, I'd like to add.

HR never managed to convey that sense of unease, that epic tinge of paranoia that permeated the original. Future installments could do with a hefty helping of X-Files in terms of flavoring.

vb4
11th Aug 2013, 19:06
HR never managed to convey that sense of unease, that epic tinge of paranoia that permeated the original. Future installments could do with a hefty helping of X-Files in terms of flavoring.

The original was cyberpunk.
HR was post-cyberpunk.
These genres are thematically quite different. HR was about a society with a potentially bright future, (note the "cyber renaissance" term and the clothing designs) while DX is about the aftermath of this bright future completely failing to materialize.

Not to mention that there was way more than enough conspiracy fodder in most of the emails/radio broadcasts/NPC dialogues.
Personally, I'd prefer if the next game had some people that didn't look like augmentations and conspiracies are the only things on their mind.

Psychomorph
12th Aug 2013, 00:50
Get out of here, Denton Taffer, your opinion bears no relevence in these parts :lol: JK. :D

Sorry, wrong forum. :p

Shralla
12th Aug 2013, 04:30
Okay. So you didn't enjoy it. Yet nobody was forcing you to post a diatribe of any sort in this thread; you could have simply left it at that. There was no need to make that sort of negative post in a thread such as this one.

Forums are for discussion. People were discussing the soundtrack. I contributed. The idea of a mindless praise thread is fundamentally flawed anyway. It's not like there's a rule saying you can't post any opposing points in "positivity threads." I enjoy discussing things like this, and it's not as though I just said "the soundtrack sucks" and left it at that.


^Mess? I'm guessing you aren't referring to the clutter, but the designer rubbish lying around everywhere was wonderful.

Especially the way it came at the cost of interactive environments, resulting in a ton of completely static clutter where Deus Ex was founded as a bastion of immersive interactivity.

Spyhopping
12th Aug 2013, 11:39
Especially the way it came at the cost of interactive environments, resulting in a ton of completely static clutter where Deus Ex was founded as a bastion of immersive interactivity.

I don't think you have particularly strong grounds there for saying that the static clutter was a problem, but perhaps there should be a different balance in future- I want to see more environmental interactivity too. In the original I got real enjoyment out of being able to interact with salient objects physically, even if it turned out that they weren't useful.

Still, most of the clutter should probably remain as it is in any future game. I'm not really interested in EM giving me an ability to pick up swathes of discarded detritus. It did the job by making the environments feel lived in and visually stimulating.



...in the vein of the original's lore, I'd like to add.

HR never managed to convey that sense of unease, that epic tinge of paranoia that permeated the original. Future installments could do with a hefty helping of X-Files in terms of flavoring.

Agreed! I felt a rather lovely twinge of paranoia when talking with Brent Radford, and would have welcomed some more of it. Jensen was digging around some nice big conspiracies during that mission. Also, going off piste with the environmental clutter theme here, I want to hear a little more "verbal clutter". People talking about things that are in no way related to transhumanism, conspiracy or the missions in the game.

vb4
12th Aug 2013, 12:46
Especially the way it came at the cost of interactive environments, resulting in a ton of completely static clutter where Deus Ex was founded as a bastion of immersive interactivity.

That's something that I really hate about modern gaming. Interactivity doesn't scale with visual detail.
The first Portal game felt more immersive than the second one to me, because in both games you were a floating box, but the second game was the one where certain objects (like path-blocking vines) actually allowed you to realize that shortcoming.
Then again, scaling the direct interactions, like Mirror's Edge does, runs danger of adding too much automation. And certain kinds of automation (including animations that can't be cancelled) hinder gameplay.

That's a bit different from the HR clutter situation, though. The game was definitely built around the idea of highlighting interactable objects and didn't work well without it.
I would like some more agility in the movements of an augmented super-cyborg, though. Maybe the ability to wallrun or slide along the ground or something.

CyberP
12th Aug 2013, 13:38
I would like some more agility in the movements of an augmented super-cyborg, though. Maybe the ability to wallrun or slide along the ground or something.

Sliding, yes.

Wall running, no.

I'll also add the prone position as well as leaning (free-form x & y) too. All in first person.

Prioritizing interactivity over static clutter, yes.


floating box

I believe the industry standard for first person games is a capsule. Unless you literally are a floating box in Portal, I do not know. Haven't played it.


mindless praise thread.

Care to elaborate on the word in bold?

It has already been established that you can say what you want, that goes without saying, but the aim of the thread was prioritizing positivity towards the game.
If you want to bash the game without pointing out some of the finer aspects of HR here too that's fine, doesn't mean we cannot object. Anyway, I kinda agree with you on the soundtrack but lets face it, there are no other modern 'AAA' games with a soundtrack as good and unique as Human Revolution's, even though it should have been much more varied and stand out.
Let me ask you, do you remember a single track from Dishonored? Yeah, me neither. Modern game music is just filler as far as I am concerned. Human Revolution's, whilst it does seem like just filler in some many places, other places it stands out: Omega Labs, the opening credits, Tai Yong & Detroit comes to mind.

Don't tell me you didn't feel anything here, that the music in combination with the skybox didn't make you feel anything:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-t-Mupq04n1g/T9FPL73JD-I/AAAAAAAABg8/0AY7eQdAMYA/s1200/DeusExHumanRevolutionTYMPenthouseView.jpg

Again, the art style I do not approve of for a game meant to be grounded in reality, but damn if it isn't breathtaking at times.

El_Bel
12th Aug 2013, 16:16
*I loved the plot twist that Darrow turned every augmented human into a zombie! Loved it! Whoever came up with that is a genius!
* I loved that takedowns and the typhoon froze time and the enemies couldn't kill you when you activated them! I mean it takes away the tension and lets you enjoy the cool moves! Oooh, shiny!
* I loved that the story took a step back from even IW in terms of epicness. I always wanted to see a love story set in the Deus Ex world! Epic stories can be tiring to the mind.
*I loved how the boss fights had no backstories! Made me come up with my own! It was fun! That's one of my major complains about the original. We always knew why the enemy bosses hated you.

Uhm, that's it for now! I'll see if I can come up with something else later!

Spyhopping
12th Aug 2013, 16:36
Where is this nourishing well of positivity that you drink from? I must find it!

This thread was created with nice intentions. There's no need to rain on the parade by being snarky.

CyberP
12th Aug 2013, 16:40
*I loved the plot twist that Darrow turned every augmented human into a zombie! Loved it! Whoever came up with that is a genius!

What is the problem with it?

It highlights that augmented people will be succeptable to all kinds of attacks. EMP, hacking, manufacturer-implemented Killswitches & other ways to control consumers etc.

As I said, having the augbies as a primary enemy type in Panchaea sucked, but I liked it as a plot device.

Elaborate, what is your problem with it?

vb4
12th Aug 2013, 16:55
Anyway, I kinda agree with you on the soundtrack but lets face it, there are no other modern 'AAA' games with a soundtrack as good and unique as Human Revolution's, even though it should have been much more varied and stand out.
Let me ask you, do you remember a single track from Dishonored? Yeah, me neither. Modern game music is just filler as far as I am concerned. Human Revolution's, whilst it does seem like just filler in some many places, other places it stands out: Omega Labs, the opening credits, Tai Yong & Detroit comes to mind.


What is your timeframe for "modern"?
From the last few years, I remember AC2, Crysis 2 and Journey (Ok, this one probably doesn't count as AAA) in terms of music. Zelda SS might have had good music (As most Zeldas do), but I didn't buy the game.
And I rarely buy new games and generally don't pay attention to music.

The best track in HR was the one used in trailers. But I don't remember it really appearing in the game and I guess it would quickly have gotten annoying.
I didn't like the original DX much when I finally got to try it. But the music kept being stuck in my head until I went back. I have some kind of love/hate relationship with that game and the music plays a big role in that.

Darthassin
12th Aug 2013, 18:14
Fact Statement: People who focus on the bad side ( especially in terms of DXHR which was great game and especially in the praise thread) just simply s*ck.

catelee2u
12th Aug 2013, 18:21
I have really, really enjoyed the game. I spent 90 hours playing through as I read every book/email and try to find every nook and cranny.
I particularly enjoyed hacking, the fantastic artwork and level design. My favourite areas are Zhao's quarters and Tai Yong Medical building and Megans private room and Hengsha although all areas are great.
I adore the animations for the takedowns and especially the multiple takedowns....so much fun.
I enjoyed finding out the history about Adams past in the police and what had caused his work for them to cease.
All the stealth and stealth options were great and not made too easy.
Thanks to all. Looking forward to Thief 4 and the next Deus Ex.

Shralla
12th Aug 2013, 18:35
I don't think you have particularly strong grounds there for saying that the static clutter was a problem

What? The devs outright said that they had to limit the amount of interactive objects due to the amount of clutter they wanted to portray and the engine they chose.


Still, most of the clutter should probably remain as it is in any future game. I'm not really interested in EM giving me an ability to pick up swathes of discarded detritus. It did the job by making the environments feel lived in and visually stimulating.

It shouldn't remain the same, there should be less stuff total if that's the way you feel. In Deus Ex, literally everything was interactive. Every trash can, every bag of trash, every computer, every faucet, every trophy, every cup, every plate, every piece of food. EVERYTHING. We have enough technology to be able to make HR-levels of clutter completely interactive. Why you just would rather a cup sit there and not be affected by bullets, explosions, bodies, or be able to be picked up is completely beyond me. But if you do feel that way, then like I said, there should just be less stuff, and all of it should be interactive.

All the static stuff in Human Revolution was completely immersion breaking. Your highlighting is totally blank except for a cyberboost bar stuffed behind some soda cans that for some reason I can't move or pick up or even knock out of the way. They literally HAD to give you highlighting just so you'd be able to function normally in a world filled with useless stuff. Nothing in video games (especially "immersive sims") should be useless. Nothing in Deus Ex was useless. The entire game suffered for a lack of interactivity.

JCpies
12th Aug 2013, 19:10
http://oi39.tinypic.com/2mre1y9.jpg


Nothing in Deus Ex was useless. The entire game suffered for a lack of interactivity.

I think the corpse of a dead rat is useless.

Spyhopping
12th Aug 2013, 19:11
^Not if you're some sort of bird of prey. Or really hungry.


What? The devs outright said that they had to limit the amount of interactive objects due to the amount of clutter they wanted to portray and the engine they chose.



Ah, oh dear. I stand corrected.




It shouldn't remain the same, there should be less stuff total if that's the way you feel. In Deus Ex, literally everything was interactive. Every trash can, every bag of trash, every computer, every faucet, every trophy, every cup, every plate, every piece of food. EVERYTHING. We have enough technology to be able to make HR-levels of clutter completely interactive. Why you just would rather a cup sit there and not be affected by bullets, explosions, bodies, or be able to be picked up is completely beyond me. But if you do feel that way, then like I said, there should just be less stuff, and all of it should be interactive.

All the static stuff in Human Revolution was completely immersion breaking. Your highlighting is totally blank except for a cyberboost bar stuffed behind some soda cans that for some reason I can't move or pick up or even knock out of the way. They literally HAD to give you highlighting just so you'd be able to function normally in a world filled with useless stuff. Nothing in video games (especially "immersive sims") should be useless. Nothing in Deus Ex was useless. The entire game suffered for a lack of interactivity.

You misunderstand me a little. I would love to see environments get increasingly interactive in the way which you describe. It's a bit of an immersion breaker when you shoot at a glass and it just sits there, unblemished, so if games could begin to approach real world interactivity some time in the future then that would be wonderful. As it is, I'm making a very small point about my expectations for a DX game which may or may not be a reality in the next few years. I'd happily do without random rubbish being interactive in place of haphazard static clutter in this sort of time frame. I'd hope that there was more interactivity for salient items, but I'm happy to do without huge levels of interactivity for irrelevant detritus.

CyberP
12th Aug 2013, 21:23
http://oi39.tinypic.com/2mre1y9.jpg

You would take the most empty as possible screenshot :/

Yes, I don't find Deus Ex the most Immersive Game out there due to it's emptyness at times as well as dated engine, but it's design makes up for it. Now if only HR was built on the same principles there would be no moaning here, it would be well ahead of DX1.

I said it before but the most Immersive games for me are System Shock 2 (with graphics mods) Arx Fatalis and Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth.


I think the corpse of a dead rat is useless.

Nope, immersion.

Besides, in my mod all the "useless" (it's there for immersion/illusion of freedom) stuff becomes a deadly weapon with the improved Microfibral Muscle. It's fun throwing corpses and dynamic clutter at everyone :)


We have enough technology to be able to make HR-levels of clutter completely interactive.

False. Well, all the clutter as dynamic/physics enabled objects would probably kill any engine, but there could still be static type of interactivity: Play an animation, read it's contents, play a SFX etc. All of it being interactive in this way would take a hell of a lot of work, but they could and should have done more. It wasn't too bad though, not as much interactivity as DX1 but ahead of most modern games barring fallout etc.

More interactivity next time is expected I say.

vb4
12th Aug 2013, 21:23
You misunderstand me a little. I would love to see environments get increasingly interactive in the way which you describe. It's a bit of an immersion breaker when you shoot at a glass and it just sits there, unblemished, so if games could begin to approach real world interactivity some time in the future then that would be wonderful. As it is, I'm making a very small point about my expectations for a DX game which may or may not be a reality in the next few years. I'd happily do without random rubbish being interactive in place of haphazard static clutter in this sort of time frame. I'd hope that there was more interactivity for salient items, but I'm happy to do without huge levels of interactivity for irrelevant detritus.

Have you played Crysis? It had huts at the beginning that were basically made from the same clutter as the stuff in DXHR. You could totally rip planks out of the walls or just destroy the buildings with explosions. (They did sometimes destroy themselves due to physics, though)
You could totally make everything interactive. It would even run on the next-gen consoles.
And it would definitely add to the immersion if I could throw cubicle walls at my enemies.

Then again, there's the matter of interactive elements vs pickups. The Snickers bar will be hard to pick up if it lies on a desk that you can also pick up. There's also the matter of balance, which is already an issue in HR. Having stuff lying everywhere is a recipe for hilarious murder on all difficulty levels.
But I would be ok with a broken difficulty level if the game stopped punishing me for not going stealth. Because then I'd abuse the level design and spend my time building hilarious death traps and killing people by throwing monitors at them.

Jerion
12th Aug 2013, 22:41
DX 1 didn't have fully interactive environments; it didn't even have consistently interactive environments. For example: Some large crates can be moved. Others cannot, and are static, perhaps just basic geometry. Or in shops, the items on the shelves can be grabbed, but the shelves themselves are static when they should reasonably move like a massive metal crate. It's just a limitation of system resources (and the engine) based on the target platforms of the time. You have to choose between having increased environment detail and having interactivity/reactivity for the majority of items/assets. I think we're getting to a point now (especially with the new consoles) where we can achieve a good level of visual fidelity while increasing the amount of interactive items proportionate to the total environment detail level. I'll be a happy, happy man when we can get a DX (or DX-type) game where every space is as detailed as Adam Jensen's apartment, and every notable item can be interactive in some way (even if it's just being movable).

Lucifer
13th Aug 2013, 08:09
Deus Ex HR has nothing in common with Deus ex 1 or Deus ex 2 its a different game .They just took some of the elements from DX 1 and they thought its gonna work,but they missed a lot .IN HR even the plot doesnt hang together.Why you have to go after someone that you dont know?So its a linear game , different game and shouldn't be called Deus Ex.

I am sorry for my English

Shralla
13th Aug 2013, 19:39
I think the corpse of a dead rat is useless.

I think the fact that the rat was there to turn into a corpse in the first place is more immersive than any visual/interactive aspect of Human Revolution. Animals were definitely up there on my list of things I missed from Deus Ex while playing Human Revolution. The implementation of animal NPCs is highly underrated as an immersion tactic. Animals are everywhere in the real world, especially things like pigeons and rats in cities. Without them, the cities in HR felt fake.

Reven
13th Aug 2013, 19:52
As someone who had come from a console background I remember how impressed I was when I first saw the pigeons flapping around the war memorial at castle Clinton, It was a small detail but it immersed me a little bit more into the world. But DXHR lacked many of those small details that made the world feel like a static, sterile utopia. Or as Shralla has already stated "fake".

CyberP
13th Aug 2013, 20:27
This is a response to JCPie's shameful image posting as well as highlighting the level of interactivity available in DX in one small section of one map.

Mods are installed but the level of interactivity is all vanilla there.

I advise turning down the volume as there are a lot of alarms set off.

WJlkhkLrOfs

JCpies
13th Aug 2013, 20:34
Can you kill someone with an animal corpse? Can you even pick up animal corpses?

What about a pillow?

CyberP
13th Aug 2013, 20:44
Can you kill someone with an animal corpse? Can you even pick up animal corpses?

What about a pillow?

No you cannot pickup animal corpses, but you can destroy them. Pillows you can pickup and throw. They do damage in GMDX with the improved microfibral muscle but it's much lower than other objects. You are meant to have super strength with microfibral muscle so throwing a pillow at someone would probably hurt a bit.

Shralla
13th Aug 2013, 20:55
That completely opaque, blindingly red UI, my god.

CyberP
13th Aug 2013, 20:58
That completely opaque, blindingly red UI, my god.

I'm starting to think all you do is complain, Shralla. Maybe you're the chatbot :lol:

I like the Terminator UI colour scheme :)

vb4
13th Aug 2013, 21:43
I think the fact that the rat was there to turn into a corpse in the first place is more immersive than any visual/interactive aspect of Human Revolution. Animals were definitely up there on my list of things I missed from Deus Ex while playing Human Revolution. The implementation of animal NPCs is highly underrated as an immersion tactic. Animals are everywhere in the real world, especially things like pigeons and rats in cities. Without them, the cities in HR felt fake.

On the topic of animals:
The fact that you can't get revenge for your dead dog in HR is a HUGE oversight.

I also read a joking suggestion about becoming bros with Namir and completely ignoring Megan together. I would've loved to do something about Megan, especially as Adam himself tells her that he will come back to that.
But that's probably just another result of the game running out of steam towards the end.

WildcatPhoenix
13th Aug 2013, 23:43
As someone who had come from a console background I remember how impressed I was when I first saw the pigeons flapping around the war memorial at castle Clinton, It was a small detail but it immersed me a little bit more into the world. But DXHR lacked many of those small details that made the world feel like a static, sterile utopia. Or as Shralla has already stated "fake".

Believe it or not, it was the pigeons on Liberty Island that first hooked me on the original Deus Ex. When I first bought the game I was used to playing run-and-gun shooters where the only interaction the player had with the world was to shoot stuff and occasionally open a door. I tried playing DX in this manner and, predictably, died repeatedly within a matter of minutes. "This game sucks," I grumbled, and started to turn it off, never to play again (and potentially miss out on the greatest gaming experience of my life).

But then I remembered something that nerdy guy (Jacobson) said over the radio. "Remember the stealth course. Stay out of their field of view, crouch behind cover" etc. So I tried it. I went up the ramp, crouched, walked carefully around the crates while avoiding the patrolling NSF guards, when suddenly...

...I disturbed a group of pigeons on the ground. They spooked, took off, and alerted two NSF to my presence (who promptly ran over and killed me).

I know it's not much now, but at the time, that was a mind-blowing experience. Suddenly I was in that world, not just sitting at a computer in my parents' house. That was immersive, it was unexpected, and it was moments like this that I sorely missed in DXHR.

Regarding world items/clutter- No, the number of interactive items in DX are hardly impressive (most of the maps are fairly empty). But it's no more impressive for me to be able to shoot a rocket at a cup on the table and watch it stay bolted in place. There are plenty of things in the game world of DX that are really only useful for throwing and distracting guards, but it's still far better to have world decoration that actually reacts to the player than a ton of pretty clutter that remains static, IMO.

vb4
14th Aug 2013, 12:37
Your pigeon example reminded me of Crysis, again.
There's some enemies that have radio reports as part of their scripted actions. If you kill them during a report, you set off an alarm.

What annoyed me most in DXHR was the enemy AI. It broke my suspension of disbelief on all levels, with the fixed patrol routes (often even at right angles) that made it look more like I'm playing a stealth puzzle, instead of a game where I can choose how to tackle my objective. It did have some funny banter events, like the robot that didn't obey in the FEMA level.
Crysis had horrible level design in terms of gameplay, (HR, on the other hand, was comparably good about that) but the AI scripts were really awesome and immersive. Just look at the Koreans in the first levels. (Look at them, don't alert/kill them)

I hope the developers take a look at other games with similar elements when doing the next game.

Also, I feel that the thread is getting progressively more negative.

El_Bel
14th Aug 2013, 13:55
What is the problem with it?

It highlights that augmented people will be succeptable to all kinds of attacks. EMP, hacking, manufacturer-implemented Killswitches & other ways to control consumers etc.

As I said, having the augbies as a primary enemy type in Panchaea sucked, but I liked it as a plot device.

Elaborate, what is your problem with it?

Uhm, do I have to? This is just bad sci-fi. To the level of amateur pulp science fiction. I guess that's what you get when you have your best writer in your team write the tie in book and leave the job of writing the game story to someone else. Let me put it in a sentence so you can see how ridiculous it is.

It highlights that augmented people will be succeptable to all kinds of attacks, by turning them into ZOMBIES. Zombies for crying out loud! I'll not even discuss the science behind it and how imposible it is, because it's pointless and you can always play the "Well it's just a game, physics don't apply" card.

Augmented Zombies!

Also check this comparison.

In Deus Ex you had to stop Bob Page from achieving omnipotence and remaking the world in his image.
In IW you choose the future of humanity.
In Icarus Effect the hero must stop a conspiracy while his survivor guilt makes it so personal to save Anna it hurts.
In Health Regeneration you must stop an AUGMENTED ZOMBIES APOCALYPSE!

As for the dead mice, it's called breathing life into a world. This is why NPCs walk around, sit on chairs, have some random dialogs. To make the world look less artificial. There is something real in seeing a cat attack a mouse (or a pidgeon) an kill it in Deus Ex. You are looking at it and your brain associates the game with the real world.

JCpies
14th Aug 2013, 14:48
There aren't mice in Deus Ex, get your facts right or get out.

:naughty:

AlexOfSpades
14th Aug 2013, 15:12
Guys, look... why dont we move our endless criticisms to another thread? This thread is to praise what we liked about the game. We ALL KNOW what you guys didnt like about DXHR. Now lets hear what you DID like! What did you like? The weapon models? The voice acting?

If you didnt like anything, then you dont even HAVE to write a post! Just close the thread, get up and go make yourself a sandwich like a champ!

JCpies
14th Aug 2013, 15:14
I hate how there were no kill streak rewards.

vb4
14th Aug 2013, 15:30
Augmented Zombies!


People were controlled through various means (among them, hallucinations and possibly mindjack) by virtue of having implants that are directly linked into their nervous system.
That's a perfectly valid way for the story to progress. They probably also had people with artificial hands that started freaking out or something, but that can't really be portrayed during gameplay.

Are you telling me that a mind control backdoor is impossible for brain implants? Especially so shortly after we had a major blowup of universal backdoors in software made by all the major American customer-level software/hardware providers?
The only weird thing about this is how anyone would've added a wireless system into their brain, aside from maybe a strictly regulated communication implant with especially strong safety precautions. But this is in a world where conspiracies are real and no one bats an eyelash on planned obsolescence of augments by a Chinese hardware manufacturer, as well as basically everyone ignoring the "little" side effect of needing a really expensive drug for the rest of you entire life if you get augmented.
If you work with the given premise, there's nothing weird about having mental backdoors in brain augmentations.

CyberP
14th Aug 2013, 15:58
More praise:

PC Version: The UI, Controls etc, very close to how it is in DX1 and they put extra care into this version to ensure quality. Granted, I havent even played the PC version, but I've seen & heard enough praise. The only real issue I see here is only 4 active augs, but this is due to a design decision. I posted an alternative that would have allowed more active augs on both console and PC.

Console Versions: Aside from some minor things I do not agree on and would have done differently myself, they did a good job here and it's the same experience as on PC pretty much from what I can tell.

The Missing Link: Whilst it was standalone and still had the same issues as HR (except a better boss), it was an interesting piece of DLC and worth the money.

Core DX design carried over: Whilst it all is watered down slightly, some stuff it feels they missed the point and too much was left behind, it's still DX just about and is worthy to the series, though Im not sure I can take it as canon. As a game I like it more than Invisible War, however, but not as an Immersive Sim.

No universal ammo: :lol:

Level of challenge: Satisfactory. Not exactly hard, but not exactly easy either unless on "tell me a story" with all hand holding enabled.

Game introduction: I like it a lot. Mostly in first person, Immersive, intelligent. This really impressed me and unfortunately tricked me into believing the game was going to blow me away. Instead its just amazing and flawed, it should be on DX's level or above as a whole.

Educational value: If a game holds a higher level of educational value than most other games whilst simulataneously managing to be more entertaining than most other games, well, it definitely deserves praise.

Atmosphere & Immersion: Even with all the bull**** we frequently complain about, it can still be an Immersive game depending on your mind set and surroundings. If the Immersive Simulation design was took seriously this game could have really put you in Adam's augmented shoes and taken art to heights only video games can achieve.
Being a game that takes some things from Deus Ex it has some Immersive Sim design in it's code by default.

If I had access to this games development tools and assets I'd have a hell of a time bringing this game up from 65% amazing to 85%. Shame none of you are backing me :/


Snip.

Yeah, the game didn't even mention zombies. Sure, there is a likeness and everyone labels them zombies (myself I call them augbies :)), but they come across more as lobotomized or something.

Darthassin
14th Aug 2013, 16:29
More praise:

PC Version: The UI, Controls etc, very close to how it is in DX1 and they put extra care into this version to ensure quality. Granted, I havent even played the PC version, but I've seen & heard enough praise. The only real issue I see here is only 4 active augs, but this is due to a design decision. I posted an alternative that would have allowed more active augs on both console and PC.

Console Versions: Aside from some minor things I do not agree on and would have done differently myself, they did a good job here and it's the same experience as on PC pretty much from what I can tell.

The Missing Link: Whilst it was standalone and still had the same issues as HR (except a better boss), it was an interesting piece of DLC and worth the money.

Core DX design carried over: Whilst it all is watered down slightly, some stuff it feels they missed the point and too much was left behind, it's still DX just about and is worthy to the series, though Im not sure I can take it as canon. As a game I like it more than Invisible War, however, but not as an Immersive Sim.

No universal ammo: :lol:

Level of challenge: Satisfactory. Not exactly hard, but not exactly easy either unless on "tell me a story" with all hand holding enabled.

Game introduction: I like it a lot. Mostly in first person, Immersive, intelligent. This really impressed me and unfortunately tricked me into believing the game was going to blow me away. Instead its just amazing and flawed, it should be on DX's level or above as a whole.

Educational value: If a game holds a higher level of educational value than most other games whilst simulataneously managing to be more entertaining than most other games, well, it definitely deserves praise.

Atmosphere & Immersion: Even with all the bull**** we frequently complain about, it can still be an Immersive game depending on your mind set and surroundings. If the Immersive Simulation design was took seriously this game could have really put you in Adam's augmented shoes and taken art to heights only video games can achieve.
Being a game that takes some things from Deus Ex it has some Immersive Sim design in it's code by default.

If I had access to this games development tools and assets I'd have a hell of a time bringing this game up from 65% amazing to 85%. Shame none of you are backing me :/



Yeah, the game didn't even mention zombies. Sure, there is a likeness and everyone labels them zombies (myself I call them augbies :)), but they come across more as lobotomized or something.

I agree with most of this.

I also believe that Director's Cut will be the masterpiece minus the terrible tyriants characters development. I've got the feeling they are trying to fix that issue with The Fall. Shame I can't play it.

El_Bel
14th Aug 2013, 17:59
People were controlled through various means (among them, hallucinations and possibly mindjack) by virtue of having implants that are directly linked into their nervous system.
That's a perfectly valid way for the story to progress. They probably also had people with artificial hands that started freaking out or something, but that can't really be portrayed during gameplay.

Are you telling me that a mind control backdoor is impossible for brain implants? Especially so shortly after we had a major blowup of universal backdoors in software made by all the major American customer-level software/hardware providers?
The only weird thing about this is how anyone would've added a wireless system into their brain, aside from maybe a strictly regulated communication implant with especially strong safety precautions. But this is in a world where conspiracies are real and no one bats an eyelash on planned obsolescence of augments by a Chinese hardware manufacturer, as well as basically everyone ignoring the "little" side effect of needing a really expensive drug for the rest of you entire life if you get augmented.
If you work with the given premise, there's nothing weird about having mental backdoors in brain augmentations.

I don't know man. That reminds me of the saying "There's nothing girly about a horse. Nothing girly about a horn. You put them together, you get a unicorn."

Sure now that you explain it it sounds like a maybe ok idea. But then you get into the game. You are in a Deus Ex game. And you see zombies around you. Deus Ex. Zombies.It's just ridiculous no matter how you rationalize it.

I mean I could give you the same rationalizations about every bad plot about every b action sci-fi movie. I could do it for Sharknado. Hell I could rationalize why Tommy Wiseau "The room" is a briliant masterpiece. Giving a reason why it's valid and that it could happen, doesn't make it good or any less ridiculous.

vb4
14th Aug 2013, 18:14
Sure now that you explain it it sounds like a maybe ok idea. But then you get into the game. You are in a Deus Ex game. And you see zombies around you. Deus Ex. Zombies.It's just ridiculous no matter how you rationalize it.


Wait, are you telling me that the Greys and MIB in the original Deus Ex weren't supposed to be ridiculous?
Deus Ex is, at its heart, a first-person RPG series with PnP-like gameplay/story progression (Including stuff like shooting people during cutscenes) and a hard-on for every kind of conspiracy theory.
Deus Ex is all about conspiracies. Aliens, MIBs and mind-control through your augmentations.
There is nothing about this that is out of character. That's how these universes work - Enter the real world, add some cyber stuff and then make a bunch of crackpot theories true.

El_Bel
14th Aug 2013, 19:17
Deus Ex is all about conspiracies. Aliens, MIBs and mind-control through your augmentations.

Mind control through augmentations is cool! I liked it when that dude who was hacking Sarif to get the Tychoon shot himself and asked for help. I liked it when that other dude Zelazny, who was a soldier without memory, because his controler deleted it after each mission. Those are cool mind control ideas.

But augmented zombies are not like that. The plot line that a mad man used augmentations to turn people into mindless zombies and you have to stop him, belongs in a b sci-fi movie. For gods sake, Hugh fits the description of a mad scientist! In fact I am 99% sure that I have seen something exactly like this in a bad amateur pulp fiction (other than HR, har har, failed humor attempt.)

HERESY
14th Aug 2013, 19:39
Mind control through augmentations is cool! I liked it when that dude who was hacking Sarif to get the Tychoon shot himself and asked for help. I liked it when that other dude Zelazny, who was a soldier without memory, because his controler deleted it after each mission. Those are cool mind control ideas.

But augmented zombies are not like that. The plot line that a mad man used augmentations to turn people into mindless zombies and you have to stop him, belongs in a b sci-fi movie. For gods sake, Hugh fits the description of a mad scientist! In fact I am 99% sure that I have seen something exactly like this in a bad amateur pulp fiction (other than HR, har har, failed humor attempt.)

I wouldn't say it belongs in a b sci-fi movie plot. I wouldn't go that route with a story unless I really ironed out the characters and stuck to Aristotle's Coercive System of Tragedy. So a plot like that should be more about the character development of the antagonist and protagonist, not just something to move things along. However, for the sake of argument lets say augmentations were real. Do you think it would be unlikely that someone would actually try to turn people into mindless zombies?

CyberP
26th Aug 2013, 06:05
Yet more:

-Stress/tension music: Music that plays when enemies are aware of the PC's prescence but not his location. Better transition from combat music to ambient.

-Weapons dealers: A proper shop interface rather than always choosing from three options. Can sell too. Now if only the game didn't throw credits at you, resulting in insignificant choices when purchasing or selling....

-Two-way transmissions: Adam responds to his operator. Unfortunately these had to be scripted to occur where there are no enemies about (usually in loooong elevators). Both a blessing and a curse.

Tempted to now form a list of all the negative in one thread but there's enough of that scattered about already and it will just make me start protesting again with the intent to develop DLC that fixes most of it. :P

Shralla
26th Aug 2013, 19:51
-Weapons dealers: A proper shop interface rather than always choosing from three options. Can sell too. Now if only the game didn't throw credits at you, resulting in insignificant choices when purchasing or selling....

That's one of the worst parts of the game. Actual "merchants" have no place in Deus Ex, and their uniformity was unbelievable and immersion-breaking. It used to be that some places would have people who would offer you stuff, and some wouldn't. And even in the places that would, sometimes you'd have to accomplish things for them in order to access their merchandise. And all of it was listed for you in conversation, you weren't just told to "look at the computer," something which is unrealistic and stupid coming from a bunch of supposed black market weapons dealers.

And like I said, the uniformity was unbelievable. Every dealer had exactly the same point of sale system and 90% of the same inventory. They always carried some of each category. In Deus Ex, people sold you what they had around because they were hurting for cash. Sometimes it was guns and ammo. Sometimes it was candy bars or single use items. But whatever it was, it was immersive and believable, and encouraged more conversation. The weapons dealers in HR are the opposite of what everything in Deus Ex stands for. Unimmersive, unbelievable, and discourages conversation and exploration in comparison to the old system. Now when you go to a new area, you just say "well, better find the merchant" because you know for a fact that he's there. And I entirely disagree with turning Deus Ex into another loot-whoring RPG where you just stack everything you have free space for because you know you'll be coming to a merchant who will buy it off you and never runs out of credits.

CyberP
26th Aug 2013, 19:57
All excellent points, except for this:


Actual "merchants" have no place in Deus Ex.

EricaLeeV
26th Aug 2013, 21:17
You know what I really liked? That first cinematic trailer. The E3 one to be exact.


Is it the kind of the trailer a video game really needs? Probably not, but it was neat. Really set a mood. Heck, it made me play the original game for the first time and, for that, I thank it.



It also put my expectations for the story way too high.

68_pie
26th Aug 2013, 22:00
You know what I really liked? That first cinematic trailer. The E3 one to be exact.

This one?

mjhkpTWIBuA

CyberP
26th Aug 2013, 22:49
Wow, I never saw that one. That would have hyped me up so much, it shows so much promise for the story from a 1 min clip.
....and now we have Deus Ex: the mobile gaem :(

Has anyone here who is a long-time Deus Ex fan actually played the Fall? If so, what is the story like?

EricaLeeV
26th Aug 2013, 22:52
This one?

Oh no, not that one. Sorry, I should have further specified. There is a whole slew of those cinematic trailers, after all.

YzWURWq756E

This one. Still like it more than even the extended edition that came out later.

CyberP
26th Aug 2013, 23:00
I did see that one. That one did hype me up.

"Corporations have more power than the government".

Actually, certain corporations own the government already apparently.

Goddamn it EM, hire me. This beautiful game needs perfecting. I'll do it on Canadian minimum wage, though I will need my reliable team with me, I'm sure they wouldn't object to peasant's wages either.

Jerion
26th Aug 2013, 23:13
Wow, I never saw that one. That would have hyped me up so much, it shows so much promise for the story from a 1 min clip.
....and now we have Deus Ex: the mobile gaem :(

Has anyone here who is a long-time Deus Ex fan actually played the Fall? If so, what is the story like?

Yep! It's basically a Deus Ex story in a smaller package, much like TML. Unlike TML though it isn't all self-contained; they leave the ending open for future episodic installments (probably to be delivered as DLC). Once you get past the prologue stuff which serves as a combination tutorial/get-you-up-to-speed bit, it's a nice, self contained slice of game centered around a hub. The detail you might expect (having unlabeled but possible solutions for sidequests, etc) is there. It's a slice of Deus Ex, really, just...smaller. In one narrative respect it is a bit off...the voice acting is okay, but the facial expressions make most conversation beats just a little bit silly.

Berr
27th Aug 2013, 04:43
YzWURWq756E

This one. Still like it more than even the extended edition that came out later.

Ahhhh this trailer, got to be one of the best game trailers ever! Every time I see it, I'm pumped for DXHR all over again.

My favourite parts of DXHR:
-The art style, especially the obsession with triangles. I'm still stuck on triangular art/design years later.
-The soundtrack. I know some people here don't like it, but I've listened to it 100+ times, I think it's amazing.
-The city hubs. I loved exploring the city hubs and talking to various people in them, doing the side quests etc. If I even became obscenely wealthy I think I could be pretty happy using it to fund a DXHR 'All City Hubs' edition that added Upper Hengsha and Montreal city hubs.
-The little scripted conversations that you heard if you snuck up on guards.
-The eBooks, especially the hilarious 'Hearts of Steel' trashy romance novel.
-The emails, especially in big offices where they told a story from different angles if you read them all.
-The dialog boss battles, they were a great concept and execution.
-The hacking minigame. It's pretty simple but I had a good time with it.
-The way that the upgrades system provided fewer, bigger upgrades such that the benefit of an upgrade is generally very noticable.

Thanks for making this thread CyperP :) It certainly is the natural order for forums to focus on the negative, it's nice to have a thread specifically bucking that trend.

JCpies
27th Aug 2013, 10:27
Wow, I never saw that one. That would have hyped me up so much, it shows so much promise for the story from a 1 min clip.
....and now we have Deus Ex: the mobile gaem :(

Don't cry, at least the series wasn't turned into handheld only and relegated to a browser game.

Karpaw
27th Aug 2013, 15:39
Until a new non-mobile DX is announced, how do we know it wasn't?

Jerion
27th Aug 2013, 17:07
Until a new non-mobile DX is announced, how do we know it wasn't?

Until a new non-mobile DX is announced, a new non-mobile DX hasn't been announced.

Until X is said, how do we know X?

Simple. You don't. But chances are excellent (and you'll just have to take this on faith for the moment) that it wasn't. That said they're almost certainly going to revisit the mobile spinoff at some point in the future. Assuming it's a consistent money-maker, I would hazard a guess that there's a small team at EM dedicated to the mobile stuff, planning to turn out new content for The Fall on a regular (if not necessarily frequent) basis.

Shralla
27th Aug 2013, 19:25
But then the question remains why would I want to support them after they've been jerking us around so long, never mind all the crap going on with Thief, which spells horrible things for the future of Deus Ex?

Jerion
27th Aug 2013, 20:16
But then the question remains why would I want to support them after they've been jerking us around so long, never mind all the crap going on with Thief, which spells horrible things for the future of Deus Ex?

Did you support them to begin with?

CyberP
31st Aug 2013, 14:10
Fact Statement: People who focus on the bad side ( especially in terms of DXHR which was great game and especially in the praise thread) just simply s*ck.

Not true man. The reason it hurts and why there is consistent moaning is because this game could have been truly special, instead it's just awesome.

But as I said, that awesome still deserves praise, appreciation and recognition in places. Again, It deserves the bashing too, but there should be better balance.

What matters a lot to me is they tried and that there was clearly a lot of passion behind it, and that I will definitely defend it for from time to time.


Did you support them to begin with?

Only financially most likely. The relentless bashing probably nullifies the value of that support though.

Triangletooth
6th Sep 2013, 19:02
Eh, it was better than I expected it to be is all I guess.

I can see the criticisms but... I still like the game, and it does more than I expected it to. I expected IW or worse, with tiny levels and useless controls, simple inventories, no sidequests (ok IW had those, but I didn't expect them (or decent ones) in this one) etc.

I watched the development assuming it would suck and be pretty much an FPS, then when people started playing it and saying how surprised they were and how much like Deus Ex it was, I decided to get it after all and then when I played it it felt completely right. Until the last bit at least, that was annoying (along with the boss fights).

But yeah it's hard to say exactly other than: It was more Deus Ex than I thought anyone would make in this day and age.

JCpies
6th Sep 2013, 19:16
I want DX4 to have the level design and depth of the first game, in the skin of Human Revolution, and then let us experience the world decaying and getting grimier and less tech-y so there can be less of a focus on hacking and more of a focus on street smarts and shizz.

WildcatPhoenix
6th Sep 2013, 23:07
I want DX4 to have the level design and depth of the first game, in the skin of Human Revolution, and then let us experience the world decaying and getting grimier and less tech-y so there can be less of a focus on hacking and more of a focus on street smarts and shizz.

I agree that DX4 (if it does take place chronologically after DXHR) should show the world in a more advanced state of decay. I also agree that there should be a return to more "analog" methods of stealth/intrusion (picking manual locks, scaling fences/walls with moveable crates and world items, etc).

But I'd also like to see the hacking mini-game concept expanded. I do very much consider this to be a major improvement over DX1's mechanic of "watching a few waves shoot out from a multitool while a percentage bar counts down to 0%." Hacking and hacker culture is a staple of cyberpunk, and I'd like to see DX4 get even more creative in ways to depict the virtual architecture of the internet and the various security grids. Allow the player to have progressively more access to floor plans, keycodes, passwords, security systems, lights (how cool would it be to be able to cut the power before infiltrating a building? yeah, the guards would be on higher alert, but at the same time, they couldn't see you...which reminds me, BRING BACK LIGHT/DARK-BASED STEALTH TO COINCIDE WITH COVER STEALTH!), etc as he/she upgrades her hacking skills.

Lucifer
7th Sep 2013, 11:37
Allow the player to have progressively more access to floor plans, keycodes, passwords, security systems, lights (how cool would it be to be able to cut the power before infiltrating a building? yeah, the guards would be on higher alert, but at the same time, they couldn't see you...

Great idea ,I would like to see this in DX4 ,this reminds me Daedalus from DX 1
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbHWfyo09fe2zxEZZxLCsOJfrSBz3WzJwBr2-DwJCGPvxTEHeuEQ
" I can cut power only for a few seconds without being detected get ready"

JCpies
7th Sep 2013, 17:58
I just finished The Missing Link, and it pretty much wowed me. If only the ending Human Revolution was on par with this, because it had more of an impact and was more thrilling than the zombies and whatever else happened at the end of HR.

I wish I could keep Burke's gun too, but alas, that'll only be possible in the Director's Cut, I guess.

It was also nice seeing Gary Savage and a reference to his daughter(?), I figure he named his daughter in memory of her, since I saved the prisoners...