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View Full Version : Isn't it time to visit Mesopotamia?



Jurre
7th Jul 2013, 19:12
I could be wrong, but I believe Lara has never visited Mesopotamia, modern day Iraq, in any of her games right?

What a shame! Mesopotamia was the place were the first advanced civilisation on earth came to be. The people that we now call Sumerians builded the first cities, invented writing, irrigation, bronze tools, they were the first to build temples for their gods and wrote the first great epic story: Gilgamesh. Kinda like Star Wars, except 5000 years old...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Standard_of_Ur_-_War.jpg/600px-Standard_of_Ur_-_War.jpg

Their cultural and technological advancement spread across the middle east and over hundreds of years gave rise to the Phoenician civilisation in modern day Libanon and Syria, who in turn spread it across the Mediterranean to Crete, Greece and Carthage (modern day Tunis) and eventually to Italy were, 3000 years after the start, the Roman Empire was born. So basicly the whole Western civilisation can trace it's origins al the way back to ancient Sumeria.

Let's show some pictures as to what the Sumerians and their successor-civilisations did:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Reconstructed_sumerian_headgear_necklaces_british_museum.JPG/220px-Reconstructed_sumerian_headgear_necklaces_british_museum.JPG
The juwels of Miss Sumeria 3000 BC.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Ancient_ziggurat_at_Ali_Air_Base_Iraq_2005.jpg/325px-Ancient_ziggurat_at_Ali_Air_Base_Iraq_2005.jpg
They builded pyramid-shapes temples known as ziggurats. This is a reconstruction of the ziggurat of Ur.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Queen_of_the_Night_%28Babylon%29.jpg/220px-Queen_of_the_Night_%28Babylon%29.jpg
They worshipped sexy goddesses: this is a Babylonian relief of the fertility goddess Isthar.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Ishtar_Gate_at_Berlin_Museum.jpg/220px-Ishtar_Gate_at_Berlin_Museum.jpg
The great city of Babylon had a beautiful gate: completely reconstructed and now on display in Berlin.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Lammasu.jpg/240px-Lammasu.jpg
Statues of bulls or lions with wings and human heads were found at the entrances of cities and palaces to scare off evildoers.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Chaos_Monster_and_Sun_God.png/220px-Chaos_Monster_and_Sun_God.png
The god Marduk has been worshipped for over 3000 years.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Tachar_Persepolis_Iran.JPG/250px-Tachar_Persepolis_Iran.JPG
The Persians were strictly speaking not Mesopotamians, but they did build an impressive Royal palace at Persepolis. It was burned down by Alexander the Great when he got drunk...

So, after this brief introduction to the ancient Mesopotamian cultures I got to ask, is it not time that Lara was to visit this so called 'cradle of civilisation'? I've seen concept art for TR Legend that showed Mesopotamian scenes, but appearently it was skipped. I think there's a huge potential here to explore a civilisation that isn't all that well explored in modern culture. Now of course we know what happened in Iraq over the last decade and care should be taken in the choice of human enemies, but there's also a story to be told here, as archeology has suffered tremendously under the war and many museums have been plundered. Lara should be the first to come to the rescue of those precious artefacts. So what do you say?

IvanaKC
7th Jul 2013, 19:27
It's a great idea. To be honest, I'm surprised that the developers didn't sent Lara on an expedition to Mesopotamia after all these years, but it was all because of the storyline. Now that they rebooted the serial, I see no reason for Lara not to go there. I expect her to find some very important ancient artifact there, something that helped the human race to rise. :D

Nice work, by the way, with finding great pictures that truly show a great Mesopotamian culture. :thumb:

Jurre
7th Jul 2013, 19:33
Thanks,

I've found something else by the way: a short animated movie telling the story of Gilgamesh. Let me invite everyone to set just 11 minutes aside to watch this: come on it's a really beautiful story:

qOrfrHys8g8

nevillet
8th Jul 2013, 04:46
I agree.

One of the lures with the Egypt levels for me was that they were truly ancient. I loved LAU for the same reason, with the ancient Atlantis theme.

The latest iteration of Tomb Raider was a little too modern for me. I'd like to get back to that ancient, truly unknown arena.

Metalrocks
8th Jul 2013, 09:49
that sure would be an interesting setting to be in. this looks more llike tomb raiding. at times i wonder what the developers have in mind where to take lara next.

pidipidi39
8th Jul 2013, 11:21
It is time to visit Mesopotamia! :eek: :D

Thanks for all of this! Very interesting :)

pomeranianpuppy
8th Jul 2013, 11:31
It would be a great culture for Lara to delve into :thumbsup:

The whole Incan & Egyptian ruins has been done a lot, time for something fresh

AdobeArtist
8th Jul 2013, 11:31
You might be on to something there :thumb: :)

But first she needs to travel to Toronto to discover if the folklore of the Elusive AdobeArtist is real or just myth:p :whistle:

Metalrocks
8th Jul 2013, 11:45
You might be on to something there :thumb: :)

But first she needs to travel to Toronto to discover if the folklore of the Elusive AdobeArtist is real or just myth:p :whistle:

in your dreams lover boy:p

IvanaKC
8th Jul 2013, 14:58
Thanks,

I've found something else by the way: a short animated movie telling the story of Gilgamesh. Let me invite everyone to set just 11 minutes aside to watch this: come on it's a really beautiful story:



Great video, I've read some parts of Epic of Gilgamesh few years ago. Wouldn't it be great that Lara actually finds a source of immortality? :eek: Gilgamesh didn't, but Lara definitely could.

Jurre
8th Jul 2013, 15:01
Great video, I've read some parts of Epic of Gilgamesh few years ago. Wouldn't it be great that Lara actually finds a source of immortality? :eek: Gilgamesh didn't, but Lara definitely could.

Ah, but the moral of the story is not to search for immortality, but to enjoy the time that is given you... Well I guess that could also be the lesson Lara takes from her Mesopotamian adventure :)

IvanaKC
8th Jul 2013, 15:04
Ah, but the moral of the story is not to search for immortality, but to enjoy the time that is given you... Well I guess that could also be the lesson Lara takes from her Mesopotamian adventure :)


I thought more like Lara finds that something, and then she burns it because she is a good person and she knows that immortality brings lots of trouble. :D

Driber
8th Jul 2013, 18:37
But first she needs to travel to Toronto to discover if the folklore of the Elusive AdobeArtist is real or just myth:p :whistle:

She'll just get Adam and Jamie on that :p

AdobeArtist
8th Jul 2013, 20:39
Ah, but the moral of the story is not to search for immortality, but to enjoy the time that is given you... Well I guess that could also be the lesson Lara takes from her Mesopotamian adventure :)

I would think her ordeal on Yamatai would instill in her a greater appreciation for the time she has to live ;)


She'll just get Adam and Jamie on that :p

uhhhh... who??? :scratch::scratch:

---

Finally watched the vid. Quite a tail. I remember now when Captain Picard recited the story in the episode when the alien captain (played by Paul Winfield, the species that communicated by literary imagery) abducted him to fight a beast creature.

And according to this video, the Christian Bible isn't the first to tell the tale of God charging man to preserve the animals in an ark, when about to wash the world in a flood. Could be they co-opted that story from the Sumerians? makes you wonder.

Jurre
8th Jul 2013, 20:45
And according to this video, the Christian Bible isn't the first to tell the tale of God charging man to preserve the animals in an ark, when about to wash the world in a flood. Could be they co-opted that story from the Sumerians? makes you wonder.

That's exactly right! According to what I've learned at college, the Hebrews learned the story about the flood during the Babylonian captivity; around 590 BC. During this time the Hebrews were fored into exile in Babylon and there they learned the Sumerian tale about the great flood and put it into their own holy books that later became the bible. They changed the name of Utnapishtim into Noah.

I better stop here... Once I start talking about history... :D

Driber
8th Jul 2013, 20:55
@AA:

Cristiavano
8th Jul 2013, 20:56
That's exactly right! According to what I've learned at college, the Hebrews learned the story about the flood during the Babylonian captivity; around 590 BC. During this time the Hebrews were fored into exile in Babylon and there they learned the Sumerian tale about the great flood and put it into their own holy books that later became the bible. They changed the name of Utnapishtim into Noah.

I better stop here... Once I start talking about history... :D

Tomb Raider: The Controversy of Lady Croft's Discoveries

AdobeArtist
8th Jul 2013, 21:07
That's exactly right! According to what I've learned at college, the Hebrews learned the story about the flood during the Babylonian captivity; around 590 BC. During this time the Hebrews were fored into exile in Babylon and there they learned the Sumerian tale about the great flood and put it into their own holy books that later became the bible. They changed the name of Utnapishtim into Noah.

I better stop here... Once I start talking about history... :D

I saw the Bill Mahr's movie "Riligulous" where his research showed the Egyptians had a story about a man born of the Gods, who performed miracles like curing the blind, walking on water, and after his death was resurrected. Also sounds quite familiar :whistle:

@Driber; yeah I know the show, just didn't know their names. But yer doing it all wrong. It's LARA who's supposed to investigate Toronto. She doesn't sub-contract ya know :p

Jurre
8th Jul 2013, 21:25
I saw the Bill Mahr's movie "Riligulous" where his research showed the Egyptians had a story about a man born of the Gods, who performed miracles like curing the blind, walking on water, and after his death was resurrected. Also sounds quite familiar :whistle:


Yeah he was talking about the Egyptian god Horus. I am not sure about all the things he mentioned, but it's true many things associated to Jezus were already present in comparable gods and heroes around the Mediterranean at the time.

Cristiavano
9th Jul 2013, 02:32
You might be on to something there :thumb: :)

But first she needs to travel to Toronto to discover if the folklore of the Elusive AdobeArtist is real or just myth:p :whistle:

"Myths are usually based on some version of the truth" - Lara Croft.

Driber
9th Jul 2013, 07:08
@Driber; yeah I know the show, just didn't know their names. But yer doing it all wrong. It's LARA who's supposed to investigate Toronto. She doesn't sub-contract ya know :p

Sure she does; she's a busy gal, after all!

:D

AdobeArtist
9th Jul 2013, 11:17
"Myths are usually based on some version of the truth" - Lara Croft.

You don't wanna know the truth behind my myth ;) :o :naughty:


Sure she does; she's a busy gal, after all!

:D

You will not deprive me of Lara!! :mad::mad:

Jurre
9th Jul 2013, 11:24
Here's the TR Legend concept art I was talking about:




Look, on the left panel next to the door it's the exact same image of Ishtar as shown in the OP :D

dark7angel
9th Jul 2013, 13:23
Here's the TR Legend concept art I was talking about:




Look, on the left panel next to the door it's the exact same image of Ishtar as shown in the OP :D

It's a shame these weren't used...

Psychomorph
21st Nov 2013, 02:48
Here's the TR Legend concept art I was talking about:




Look, on the left panel next to the door it's the exact same image of Ishtar as shown in the OP :D

Had no idea Mesopotamia was considered for Legend, I hope we will see it at some point. But I would also go back to Egypt any time at any day. Egypt is just a class on it's own.

Jurre
22nd Nov 2013, 23:12
I just found out about this: I had no idea that it existed. It's called Chogha Zanbil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chogha_Zanbil) and it is the ruin of a ziggurat temple that was built by the Elamites, who lived in the south of modern day Iran - look how massive that thing is!

Thetford
22nd Nov 2013, 23:29
I'm sure they can squeeze in a lost Hanging Garden tended by some wise old man somewhere ... a Hanging Allotment at the very least.

Metalrocks
23rd Nov 2013, 04:49
looks like an interesting setting as well. add some traps and some hard puzzles to solve and im in.

shellystein216
31st Dec 2013, 17:35
I agree! Would love to see Lara visit the middle east, where like you said civilization began. So many interesting cultures and tales and could easily be tied in with the modern-day struggles of that area.

Thetford
5th Jan 2014, 22:29
I watched a documentary on the history channel, Yesterday, called Raiders of the Lost Past over the weekend about how the Garden of Eden is supposedly located under the Persian Gulf, near Mesopotamia. The theory, as proposed by Juris Zarins is that the story from the Bible comes from Sumerian stories (the word "Eden" comes from the Sumerian word for wild, untamed land), and that the world sea levels were lower than the present day gulf due to the ice age. Two of the rivers mentioned in the Bible have been identified, the third being dried up for years and was only identified through satellite imagery, while the fourth is a river that until it was dammed, flowed out of mountains in Iran (Cush).

The land surrounding these rivers would be lush and fertile due to rainfall that is only found along the present day coast, and so humans ate from the wild plantlife (in essence, being provided by god, and eating directly from the trees), however, when the ice age ended and the sea levels raised, the humans were forced northwards to the arid land of Mesopotamia, as the gulf would be flooded, the conditions forced them to become adaptive and develop agriculture (in essence, gaining knowledge), later forming the Sumerian civilisation. Zarins says that instead of looking at Eden as a story of the creation of human existence, we should look at it as a story telling the creation of human society.

Jurre
5th Jan 2014, 23:50
I haven't seen that docu, but that is very plausible: in antiquity many civilizations influenced the other and passed on their various creation myths and great flood myths and whatnot to eachother.


Zarins says that instead of looking at Eden as a story of the creation of human existence, we should look at it as a story telling the creation of human society.

Very similar to what I have learned in college: indeed many scholars think that the bible should be interpreted not in a literal sense but metaphorically.
One story that I remember hearing about: in the bible the sons of Adam and Eve, Abel and Caïn, get in a fight and one kills the other. That may be a metaphor for the conflict between the people in the earliest cities who grew their food on farms, and the old nomadic people who herded animals. Those two early societies didn't trust eachother at all, and were always at war. In the story Abel is a shepherd and Cain a crop farmer.