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Lucifer
4th Jul 2013, 10:08
Eidos what I want to say that you will have new contestant Cyberpunk 2077 so far looks amazing. This game can be a sequel to Deus Ex 1 .After I've seen the images I have to say that whole gold theme for DXHR was a bad choice.
You overdone it with gold orange color.Just look


http://i0.wp.com/www.cgramp.com/media/2013/01/0110.jpg?resize=600%2C250
http://i1.wp.com/www.cgramp.com/media/2013/01/062.jpg?resize=600%2C250
http://i0.wp.com/www.cgramp.com/media/2013/01/092.jpg?resize=600%2C250

http://www.edge-online.com/wp-content/uploads/edgeonline/oldfiles/deus_ex_human_revolution_a.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2011/08/deusexmeta530.jpg


I hope In next DX you will be more realistic with no highlighting

Spyhopping
4th Jul 2013, 10:18
I didn't like highlighting, but you can disable it so it didn't bother me at all.

That trailer looks intriguing, but I didn't quite understand the point of the gormless faced half-naked woman.

Lucifer
4th Jul 2013, 10:29
I didn't like highlighting, but you can disable it so it didn't bother me at all.

That trailer looks intriguing, but I didn't quite understand the point of the gormless faced half-naked woman.

I cant disable it , camera tracer is highlighted , emp field and others after I fisnihed this game once I am sick of orange, thats why I cant reinstall.

SageSavage
4th Jul 2013, 11:01
Cyberpunk 2077 won't be a first person game, thus no rival for DX. Very, very much looking forward to it though and I fully agree about the colour scheme and other visual design decisions.

Lucifer
4th Jul 2013, 11:05
Cyberpunk 2077 won't be a first person game, thus no rival for DX. Very, very much looking forward to it though and I fully agree about the colour scheme and other visual design decisions.

How do you know? I think they're gonna copy DXHR system First+3rd Person + cover cause its the best.

Reven
4th Jul 2013, 11:19
I didn't like highlighting, but you can disable it so it didn't bother me at all.

That trailer looks intriguing, but I didn't quite understand the point of the gormless faced half-naked woman.

A lot of deja vu going on in this thread, or I am just a greater prescient then even I had guessed. But either way I found out from reading the Cyberpunk forums that the women is recreating the iconic pose from the cyberpunk core rule book, in which a rock star (think Maria Mercurial, only of the Cyberpunk universe) is advertising chrome. The poster can be seen in the background of the trailer for a short moment. So in short it's an 80's thing.

SageSavage
4th Jul 2013, 11:24
How do you know? I think they're gonna copy DXHR system First+3rd Person + cover cause its the best.
Heh, good question. Actually there is no official statement regarding that yet although I was sure I've read that a while ago. Maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong there but TPS seems more likely. Not sure if RedEngine 3 is up to FP.

CyberP
4th Jul 2013, 11:41
That trailer looks intriguing, but I didn't quite understand the point of the gormless faced half-naked woman.

Huh, there is no breast, or any sexual organs on display for that matter? Isn't she meant to be a android or cyborg assassin? Female-based, Half naked and attractive would be the most effective of assassins ;)
Whether you like it or not by 2077 we WILL see androids or whatever like those depicted in 2077.
Assassins, assistants, sex dolls you name it. Robotic Sex dolls & assistants, the Japanese already making swift progress in that regard.

Unfortunately since it's the Witcher devs....they likely will end up overdoing it.


Cyberpunk 2077 won't be a first person game, thus no rival for DX.

I really hope that isn't true, unless it's not a mindless cover shooter, or half mindless one for that matter (Mass Effect for example). Hopefully it plays more like old school third person shooters though with a ton of RPG elements, the combat anyway.
I miss old school TPS, superior but mostly forgotten/watered down, just like Immersive Sims. :/


How do you know? I think they're gonna copy DXHR system First+3rd Person + cover cause its the best.

No, it really isn't. The unnecessary third person really held back gameplay, challenge & immersion.

As for the color theme, it's not bad, but it's not good either. It's unique, it stands out, it was completely overdone and had seemingly little thought put into it's concept and context, to the work the artist was applying his art to. Detroit to Heng Sha, why the **** is everything orange in 2027? Fair enough just Heng Sha, it is a crowded, multi-layered city so there could have been an excuse for it (pollution)...sigh. JJB just got his artistic **** out and went all out. The objects, textures etc are great, but does he really believe the world will look like that in 2027? And I'm just talking about architecture and specific advanced tech, the orange theme just adds insult to injury.
I like that it's all unique, but it's not suitable for this series of digital art, the Deus Ex series. Rather silly really.

Lucifer
4th Jul 2013, 11:57
No, it really isn't. The unnecessary third person really held back gameplay, challenge & immersion.



but you have to admit that cover system works perfectly cause you can see much more from the 3rd person view.

CyberP
4th Jul 2013, 12:07
but you have to admit that cover system works perfectly cause you can see much more from the 3rd person view.

That's the main problem right there.

Gameplay & challenge:

-Ruins any need for the majority of the stealth augs.
-Makes combat and stealth less intense, easy since you have the all-seeing eye.
-Has the crosshair visible from cover so you can line up headshots before exposing yourself.
-During many third person sequences you are invincible. (Typhoon, Takedowns, Icarus Landing System).

Immersion:

-First person perspective is superior for immersion. It's superior for other things not mentioned too but since HR is a hybrid those other things are covered.

I suggest you go play System Shock 2, grab all the graphics mods, play with some good headphones in the dark. That's immersion. Works for any Immersive Sim though, Fallout: New vegas, VTM:B, Arx Fatalis, Call of Cthulhu, the other Deus Ex's etc.

The three most immersive games in my opinion are Arx Fatalis, Call of Cthulhu: DCotE and System Shock 2.

Spyhopping
4th Jul 2013, 12:12
A lot of deja vu going on in this thread, or I am just a greater prescient then even I had guessed. But either way I found out from reading the Cyberpunk forums that the women is recreating the iconic pose from the cyberpunk core rule book, in which a rock star (think Maria Mercurial, only of the Cyberpunk universe) is advertising chrome. The poster can be seen in the background of the trailer for a short moment. So in short it's an 80's thing.


Huh, there is no breast, or any sexual organs on display for that matter? Isn't she meant to be a android or cyborg assassin? Female-based, Half naked and attractive would be the most effective of assassins ;)
Whether you like it or not by 2077 we WILL see androids or whatever like those depicted in 2077.
Assassins, assistants, sex dolls you name it. Robotic Sex dolls & assistants, the Japanese already making swift progress in that regard.

Hmmm... interesting, cheers. My mind remains open, but I'm still unconvinced as to what it is achieving: it just seems to lower the tone. I'd be much more intrigued as to who she was if she was a character like Rachael from Blade Runner- or Megan/Malik from DX. As it stands she's just some sexy woman with her underwear out whose facial expression makes her look like she's had a lobotomy.

Aside from that, the little scene at the end is a great part of the trailer.

68_pie
4th Jul 2013, 12:57
As it stands she's just some sexy woman with her underwear out who's facial expression makes her look like she's had a lobotomy.

And scythes that spring out of her forearms. Maybe she didn't want to get blood on her clothes when she was chopping dudes into tiny pieces.

Spyhopping
4th Jul 2013, 13:15
Haha, yes, minor detail I missed in my description. :P

I always wondered how Adam managed to walk around the city in his coat, wandering around clubs, shops and talking to the citizens when he'd just put his arm blade through a few abdomens and torsos. He'd be a right mess.

nomotog
4th Jul 2013, 15:19
I think naked blade lady might actually be the main character or one of them. Seeing as how at the end of the trailer she is wearing a uniform.

FrankCSIS
4th Jul 2013, 15:29
I still think the girl in white nightgown was an aesthetic contrast thing. "Why is this squad firing at her?" *notices mechanical arms and dead bodies all around* "Oh, I see".

It's simple, and it plays with the 80's tropes. Beyond that, meh. The game seems a lot more interesting than the trailer, funnily enough.

As for HR, it would've been interesting to see some varying and contrasting colour schemes. Blade Runner is an obvious example, T2 as well. In both cases, it's the contrast that made the fiery orange so interesting.

Reven
4th Jul 2013, 15:30
I think naked blade lady might actually be the main character or one of them. Seeing as how at the end of the trailer she is wearing a uniform.

From the early press releases CDPR had said that the game would have a character creation system. So it's possible that the woman will be an archetype to select at least. As for why she has a uniform on...MAXTAC are often called out to deal with cyberpsychosis victims whom have lost their humanity (in the PNP game it can happen when humanity points drop to zero) but also they are know to reprogram/hire such individuals for their own ends.

Jerion
4th Jul 2013, 15:36
It will probably be a very good RPG with good attention to visual detail. Doesn't mean that it is in any sort of competition to unseat Deus Ex. If they do manage to deliver a great game in the cyberpunk and role-playing-action genres, then more power to the team behind it!

CodenameD
5th Jul 2013, 05:49
I have faith in CD Projekt RED. Witcher series was a success. They KNOW RPGs. And what I love about them more is their No-DRM policy.

Cyberpunk 2077 is likely to be an awesome game, whether or not it can rival Deus Ex. Of course Deus Ex is losing it's originality so I think the question is if any future Deus Ex from Eidos Montreal can hold a candle to whatever CPR is planning to make of C2077.

Time alone can tell.


but you have to admit that cover system works perfectly cause you can see much more from the 3rd person view.

The 3rd person view is against the Deus Ex philosophy of "First Person Immersion". No matter how well it's executed, or how useful it is, 3rd person view during gameplay is NOT welcome in a series known for it's first person control.

I'm Adam Jensen sneaking through the corridor. And I press the "cover" key and suddenly Adam Jensen is somebody else (I'm looking at) showing off his metallic arse?

Not to mention, every SINGLE time I jump with Icarus Landing System, my eyeballs float out to show off how my body does the jump, only to return to the sockets at the end of the sequence. It's a pain (although I'll admit, the ILS is quite useful).

Darthassin
5th Jul 2013, 06:29
I have full faith in CDPRed and I have well... some faith in Eidos also. The Witcher games are true and complex RPGs and they are masterpieces. DXHR is hybrid game and also very close to masterpiece IMO. But Eidos' idea to brind Deus Ex to other medias and alienating core fan base with it really made me angry and I feel betrayed.

I don't treat Cyberpunk and Deus Ex as rivals. I think these games are very diffrent. Deus Ex is more about saving the world and Cyberpunk is about saving yourself.

Lucifer
5th Jul 2013, 11:02
We are all waiting for Cyberpunk 2077 and of course for next Deus Ex .I have to admit you are right that 3rd person makes the game very easy .Among this when you have radar +3 person augmentations are useless .Sneaking in the first person is bigger challenge.And now We know why the game is soo easy. I finished the game on give me deus ex difficulty without even blink an eye.

1nflu3n2
5th Jul 2013, 15:37
This one's at the top of my list! I don't know the lore but I'm expecting a good RPG.

Though those images are stunning they are from the CGI trailer, so we'll have to wait and see how well the concept art translates into the final game.

Also other games that implement orange better than DXHR: Mass Effect 2 (http://www.mobygames.com/game/mass-effect-2/screenshots) and The Division (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-28-tom-clancys-the-division-screenshot-gallery).

Berr
13th Jul 2013, 12:09
Every screenshot or other game I saw in this thread did NOT have a gold / orange colour theme. They were predominantly blue / cold lighting which is typical sci-fi and cyberpunk colour scheme. Sure they had the odd orange colouring, usually from fire, but I can find scenes in DXHR which are blue or green or red etc as well.

The gold theme was a deliberate style choice for DXHR, and I'm a big fan of it. Calling it lazy is an insult to the art team, and reveals that you really haven't read much behind the scenes about the making of the game.

All that said, I'm very much looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077 too. I think CD Projekt Red are really great developers and I'm sure they will put together something special with this game.

AlexOfSpades
13th Jul 2013, 15:27
Every screenshot or other game I saw in this thread did NOT have a gold / orange colour theme. They were predominantly blue / cold lighting which is typical sci-fi and cyberpunk colour scheme. Sure they had the odd orange colouring, usually from fire, but I can find scenes in DXHR which are blue or green or red etc as well.

The gold theme was a deliberate style choice for DXHR, and I'm a big fan of it. Calling it lazy is an insult to the art team, and reveals that you really haven't read much behind the scenes about the making of the game.


You do admit that the gold theme was overdone though? I get that they wanted the whole "new renaissance thing", all right, but everything is gold and black.

Lucifer
13th Jul 2013, 15:48
I dont want to insult or blame anyone I am just saying that for me game is overdone with orange color.I dont like that they used only 2 colors in game black and orange . That's why many people have to use mods for color correction.I know its their first project so we can just forgive them.


I get that they wanted the whole "new renaissance thing", all right, but everything is gold and black.

That's right

Berr
13th Jul 2013, 16:13
You do admit that the gold theme was overdone though? I get that they wanted the whole "new renaissance thing", all right, but everything is gold and black.

I do not agree it was overdone. While it was undeniably a strong theme, a) it was a deliberate stylistic choice which I applaud, and b) there WAS plenty of other colours present in the game.

Strong colour and/or colour filtering is often done in movies to great effect, and I liked to see it brought to a game. To see strong colour used well in a movie, check out the blue/bleached effect in Minority Report, or the various colours for different areas of Terminator 2. Also, the Chinese movie Hero (2002) makes strong use of colour to great effect, you can read about it here http://attrition.org/movies/hero.html

The art team also made a couple of other strong stylistic choices with their cyber-renaissance twist on cyberpunk, and their use of triangles instead of the very common hexagons for shapes in patterns. Taking into consideration these choices as well, I have a lot of respect for the art team and I am annoyed at any suggestion that the gold theme was 'lazy'.

I do recognize that not everyone will like the stylist colouring though - some people like a straight pursuit of realism. Which I in turn don't particularly care about - for example, I despise the 'realistic brown-and-grey-coloured war scene' palette and will not play most 'realistic war shooters'.

ps. I have seem the mod to remove the black and gold overlay, and think DXHR looks substantially worse with that mod active.

Shralla
13th Jul 2013, 18:35
The gold theme was a deliberate style choice for DXHR, and I'm a big fan of it. Calling it lazy is an insult to the art team, and reveals that you really haven't read much behind the scenes about the making of the game.

Not to pull the "well we've been here way longer than you" card, but that is a pretty funny thing to say to the people who have been here since they first announced "Deus Ex 3."

I daresay we know more about the development history and their choices than you do. I could be wrong, but some of that information was only really disseminated on the forums, especially in the early days. Of course we know it was a deliberate style choice. Of course we know why they said they picked it. And it is still our opinion that their decision was driven by a lack of resources as much as a desire to have a visually distinct product.

All those movies you named make use of MULTIPLE color palettes depending on the location. None of them literally look exactly the same from beginning to end like Human Revolution does, and it's kind of insulting to them and everything they did for visual art in movies to compare it to something as bland as Human Revolution.

You may like it, but the artistically objective fact is that use of a single color with no contrast is BAD and does not make a visually interesting end-result. None of us are asking for "realism" when we complain about the color scheme, so you can put that fallacious notion right out of your head. All we want is variety, and for the developers to not take the easy way out and make every single location exactly the same color. And yes, it really is the easy way out because it requires less effort than designing areas with different color schemes.

There is nothing about the current color scheme that wouldn't have been made better and more interesting by the use of ANY other colors at all.

KingNL
13th Jul 2013, 21:32
I didn't quite understand the point of the gormless faced half-naked woman.

Sex sells

Shralla
13th Jul 2013, 21:41
I also think that his statement is kind of the point. It makes you think "Who is this? How did she get here? Why is she half-naked?"

FrankCSIS
14th Jul 2013, 00:08
or the various colours for different areas of Terminator 2

Key word being various, as mentioned earlier. I've talked enough about T2 on this forum! But the colour schemes were spot on, for each key location. I'm all for that in games, when the art enhances the storyline. Art and fancy stuff for the sake of art is not as interesting, however. Not in games, anyway. Because games are not interactive paintings. They're not digital art. Digital art already exists on its own, it does not need games as a sidekick.

They're not interactive movies either. Or interactive soundtracks. They're games. They are their own medium, and they need to assume their identity, and stop trying to justify their existence by attaching themselves to older mediums. This identity crisis has got to come to an end at some point. After 30+ years, it's time to find their own path and place into the world.

CyberP
14th Jul 2013, 00:50
Not to pull the "well we've been here way longer than you" card, but that is a pretty funny thing to say to the people who have been here since they first announced "Deus Ex 3."

I daresay we know more about the development history and their choices than you do. I could be wrong, but some of that information was only really disseminated on the forums, especially in the early days. Of course we know it was a deliberate style choice. Of course we know why they said they picked it. And it is still our opinion that their decision was driven by a lack of resources as much as a desire to have a visually distinct product.

All those movies you named make use of MULTIPLE color palettes depending on the location. None of them literally look exactly the same from beginning to end like Human Revolution does, and it's kind of insulting to them and everything they did for visual art in movies to compare it to something as bland as Human Revolution.

You may like it, but the artistically objective fact is that use of a single color with no contrast is BAD and does not make a visually interesting end-result. None of us are asking for "realism" when we complain about the color scheme, so you can put that fallacious notion right out of your head. All we want is variety, and for the developers to not take the easy way out and make every single location exactly the same color. And yes, it really is the easy way out because it requires less effort than designing areas with different color schemes.

There is nothing about the current color scheme that wouldn't have been made better and more interesting by the use of ANY other colors at all.

Well said. Got to give them credit for the white alternative though: various offices, "The White Room", Panchaea.


After 30+ years, it's time to find their own path and place into the world.

They found their place years ago as the superior medium imo, but there are those who seek to knock down that position by turning them into poorly directed and barely interactive movies. There are few who actually pull that angle off somewhat convincingly whilst still not forgetting about gameplay (Metal gear Solid, Red Dead Redemption). All the others who tried are complete failures.
Was it you who said games are better when they take strong influence from books rather than movies? I agree wholeheartedly, though my favourite influence on games has to be Dungeons and Dragons and other TTRPGs, though I have never even played a single TTRPG in my life but I don't need to explain why they are my fav influence. CRPG's from the 90's ftw.

Berr
14th Jul 2013, 01:36
Not to pull the "well we've been here way longer than you" card, but that is a pretty funny thing to say to the people who have been here since they first announced "Deus Ex 3."

I daresay we know more about the development history and their choices than you do. I could be wrong, but some of that information was only really disseminated on the forums, especially in the early days. Of course we know it was a deliberate style choice. Of course we know why they said they picked it. And it is still our opinion that their decision was driven by a lack of resources as much as a desire to have a visually distinct product.

I don't post on forums that much, but I've read just about everything there is available about DXHR and the making of over the last two years, I'd have a background in it on par with the most avid fans.

I can't fathom how you think the colour theme decision would be the result of a lack of resources. What, like they could afford black and yellow artists, but not red, blue or green ones? No, they did it on purpose and not for any kind of financial reason, whether you like it or not.


All those movies you named make use of MULTIPLE color palettes depending on the location. None of them literally look exactly the same from beginning to end like Human Revolution does, and it's kind of insulting to them and everything they did for visual art in movies to compare it to something as bland as Human Revolution.

This is untrue. Minority Report applied the same filter across the entire film, and plenty of people applauded the style choice.

Also, I'm going to call you on saying Human Revolution is bland and 'look exactly the same from beginning to end'. A quick google search found me these:
Detroit train station - greens, greys, a dark orange stripe - no gold:
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/522947-deus-ex-human-revolution-windows-screenshot-punk-dancerss.jpg
Talking to Eliza - green everywhere plus a bit of purple - no gold:
http://www.dpadmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution-01.jpg
Hengsha streets - black, white, gold, orange, green and blue - lots of colours!:
http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/pc/d/e/deus-ex-human-revolution-pc-1314441398-149.jpg

Also, as I have already mentioned, DXHR went with black and gold over the standard sci-fi/cyberpunk 'cold blue', cyber-renaissance over straight cyberpunk, and triangle designs over typical sci-fi hexagons. It has broadened the cyberpunk art style more than any other major cyberpunk work that I have encountered, across any medium.


You may like it, but the artistically objective fact is that use of a single color with no contrast is BAD and does not make a visually interesting end-result. None of us are asking for "realism" when we complain about the color scheme, so you can put that fallacious notion right out of your head. All we want is variety, and for the developers to not take the easy way out and make every single location exactly the same color. And yes, it really is the easy way out because it requires less effort than designing areas with different color schemes.

There is nothing about the current color scheme that wouldn't have been made better and more interesting by the use of ANY other colors at all.

As I have already demonstrated with screenshot evidence, it is untrue to say that DXHR looked the same from beginning to end or did not have other colours at all. Maybe you need to go back and play the game again to refresh your memory? This forum is certainly only black and gold, maybe that is what confused you?

Berr
14th Jul 2013, 01:45
I'm all for that in games, when the art enhances the storyline. Art and fancy stuff for the sake of art is not as interesting, however. Not in games, anyway. Because games are not interactive paintings. They're not digital art. Digital art already exists on its own, it does not need games as a sidekick.

They're not interactive movies either. Or interactive soundtracks. They're games. They are their own medium, and they need to assume their identity, and stop trying to justify their existence by attaching themselves to older mediums. This identity crisis has got to come to an end at some point. After 30+ years, it's time to find their own path and place into the world.

I think I mostly agree with you. But I don't think making a game with a distinct visual style is attaching itself to older mediums, I think it is actually games reaching a new maturity. The comparison to film and paintings is interesting I think as they are both much older mediums, so we can track their growth to see what may happen in the future of games. And in both cases, they started with a striving to replicate reality, but after reaching a certain maturity they outgrew or diversified from that, and some started to pursue their own visual identity and style instead. I think games have reaching a technical competence and age where they too can do the same. Broadly speaking, my favourite game art designs are stylized rather than pursuing strict realism.

68_pie
14th Jul 2013, 01:54
Every time someone uses "cinematic" as a positive descriptor of a game, I want to bang my head against a wall.

CyberP
14th Jul 2013, 01:56
Also, as I have already mentioned, DXHR went with black and gold over the standard sci-fi/cyberpunk 'cold blue', cyber-renaissance over straight cyberpunk, and triangle designs over typical sci-fi hexagons. It has broadened the cyberpunk art style more than any other major cyberpunk work that I have encountered, across any medium.


This may be true, but did it need broadening? No. Does it make sense? No. Seems like a "just because I want to be unique, look at me, look at me!" implementation.
Also variety was desperately needed. Heng Sha was piss gold streets stage 2 (Though still very beautiful).

Deus Ex is meant to be heavily grounded in reality, not fantasy. HR's style in real world 2027? I'd wager big bucks it won't look anything like that.
I do have a soft spot for HR's art design, it's grand, but is it suitable for Deus Ex? No, not at all.

HERESY
14th Jul 2013, 02:36
This may be true, but did it need broadening? No. Does it make sense? No. Seems like a "just because I want to be unique, look at me, look at me!" implementation.
Also variety was desperately needed. Heng Sha was piss gold streets stage 2 (Though still very beautiful).

Deus Ex is meant to be heavily grounded in reality, not fantasy. HR's style in real world 2027? I'd wager big bucks it won't look anything like that.
I do have a soft spot for HR's art design, it's grand, but is it suitable for Deus Ex? No, not at all.

The bold makes no sense at all. The small heads were part of the art direction and style, so we're going to evolve to small headed humans in a couple of years? They took the real world and created a fantasy world that parallels the source material.

To say it's not "suitable" for Deus Ex is pure comedy. Again, it is their game/IP and it's on them to develop elements of the game that make it unique and set it apart from the crowd.

CyberP
14th Jul 2013, 02:39
The bold makes no sense at all. The small heads were part of the art direction and style, so we're going to evolve to small headed humans in a couple of years? They took the real world and created a fantasy world that parallels the source material.

To say it's not "suitable" for Deus Ex is pure comedy. Again, it is their game/IP and it's on them to develop elements of the game that make it unique and set it apart from the crowd.

:rolleyes:

HERESY
14th Jul 2013, 02:52
:rolleyes:

You can roll your eyes all you like but it's the truth.

FrankCSIS
14th Jul 2013, 03:15
Oh hey no argument there. I've always said a talented story teller does not replicate reality, he takes a world that is strayed from what we know, and puts enough humanity into it to bring us all with him at the heart of it, and believe it.

The point is I don't like style for the sake of style. I'm not saying it's necessarily the point with HR, although now and then it does give out that vibe, when specific areas could have benefited from another palette. I suppose it's an opinion here, and not really worth debating.

There are worse cases, of course. Interactive movies, for people who thought they were giving us the new frontier in movies and games. Overly stylised indie games, from douches who figured they were breaking the frontier of digital art, at the expense of the game itself. Every time someone tells me he's making more than just a game, basically. Games don't need more. They just need to be who and what they are.

We've seen this crap in movies through the 70's and the 80's. Every now and then someone thought he would reinvent movies, give it a second life, by bringing in some gimmick or another. None of it ever lasted. Not because people are opposed to "progress", but because Movies have a strong and established identity. It's hard to put into words, but there is a worldwide unspoken consensus on what it is.

Every now and then someone tries to bring innovation to theater. And it is the same story all over again. The experiment is often worth the price of admission, but in and by itself Theater does not require to be reinvented, and the experiment is rarely tried again. It has a strong identity, which has endured through millenniums. It's safe to say it will be around for a few more millenniums, as long as there are humans on this planet to perform.

Nobody calls movies "Motion Pictures", with the possible exception of the Academy. The director of photography is extremely important, but the identity of movies goes beyond motion pictures. You would not hear Conrad Hall talk about what he's brought to the medium, and how principles of photography make Movies a more mature experience. I cringed when Minority Report was sold to the public and defined by its color palette and its minimalist Ikea style. And ultimately I think the movie suffered from its style. Blade Runner, or T2, benefited from it, by comparison. In both instances, style never took center stage, no matter how stylized Blade Runner is. I realise the line is thin, but it's there nonetheless.

As such, Games are old enough to be called by their own name, and do not require to be made more mature by being enhanced by other mediums. It is a given that digital art plays an important role in games. They always have. As does music. And narration devices, whatever they may be, including, yes, cinematics. But none of those features, by themselves, should ever take center stage. And I think that's it right there, with HR's style. It took the center stage, sometimes. Or at least that's how it felt. Maybe we feel like this, because we've only really heard from the art director during development, and the palette was almost sold as a feature of the game, to those who followed development on a daily basis. It's entirely possible my experience was skewed by being here for so long!

CyberP
14th Jul 2013, 03:22
As such, Games are old enough to be called by their own name, and do not require to be made more mature by being enhanced by other mediums. It is a given that digital art plays an important role in games. They always have. As does music. And narration devices, whatever they may be, including, yes, cinematics. But none of those features, by themselves, should ever take center stage. And I think that's it right there, with HR's style. It took the center stage, sometimes. Or at least that's how it felt. Maybe we feel like this, because we've only really heard from the art director during development, and the palette was almost sold as a feature of the game, to those who followed development on a daily basis. It's entirely possible my experience was skewed by being here for so long!

:worship:

And no, your view is not skewed. I didn't really follow development.
If the game was better in other areas the art style wouldn't receive as much hate as it does, it seemed to take center stage and everything else was a mixed bag but never exceptional. I will stress again that it was high quality, unique and imaginative but not suitable for Deus Ex. Just a bit more variety would have been nice too.

It should have been high quality in all forms of art applied, barring one to match up to DX, which in DX was the graphics though it wasn't bad looking for the time but was clearly the low priority distribution target of resources. I like DX's art style though :).

I also agree with "there shouldn't be innovation just because" also. New ideas should actually be good and suitable to what they are being applied to. If i were to add making love to flying pigs QTE's that uses every key on a keyboard to complete the sequence in Deus Ex it would be innovation but ****ty innovation and not suitable for DX at all.

Speaking of adding things to DX, the final version of GMDX is likely being released tommorow. Full feature list revealed. My time of judgement has come, though I believe it is worthy, being fanatical about gaming as a whole an' all. No making love to flying pig QTE's :)

HERESY
14th Jul 2013, 03:44
:worship:

And no, your view is not skewed. I didn't really follow development.
If the game was better in other areas the art style wouldn't receive as much hate as it does, it seemed to take center stage and everything else was a mixed bag but never exceptional. I will stress again that it was high quality, unique and imaginative but not suitable for Deus Ex. Just a bit more variety would have been nice too.

It should have been high quality in all forms of art applied, barring one to match up to DX, which in DX was the graphics though it wasn't bad looking for the time but was clearly the low priority distribution target of resources. I like DX's art style though :).

The bold is comedy. :lol: If the art direction/style is consistent with the theme of "cyberpunk" or what they interpret as cyberpunk, you can't say it isn't suitable. It's like a game that once used hand drawn sprites and then made the next gen leap and used a totally different art style. So what? If the new art direction is believable and makes sense for what is happening within that game world so be it.

If it were left up to you we'd still be playing dot matrix games.

CyberP
14th Jul 2013, 03:49
If the new art direction is believable and makes sense for what is happening within that game world so be it.

The bold is comedy. That's one of the problems right there: it's not believable at all, a fantasy.

HERESY
14th Jul 2013, 03:57
The bold is comedy. That's one of the problems right there: it's not believable at all, a fantasy.

It is believable within the confines of that game. Borderlands used a unique art style and guess what? It works for that game and what's going on in the game world, characters, etc. Okami used a unique art style and guess what? It works for that game and what's going on in the game world, characters, etc. Gears, GOW, etc, it's the same with DX:HR. The colors were used in a unique way to set it apart from other games and to make the DX:HR world seem alive in its own way. Concerning belief, over two million people have purchased the game, it has received great reviews and it was actually praised for the art style. You're in the minority here and like I said, if it were up to you we'd be playing dot matrix games.

Berr
14th Jul 2013, 04:00
(snip)
Agree with it all. So true.


As such, Games are old enough to be called by their own name, and do not require to be made more mature by being enhanced by other mediums. It is a given that digital art plays an important role in games. They always have. As does music. And narration devices, whatever they may be, including, yes, cinematics. But none of those features, by themselves, should ever take center stage. And I think that's it right there, with HR's style. It took the center stage, sometimes. Or at least that's how it felt. Maybe we feel like this, because we've only really heard from the art director during development, and the palette was almost sold as a feature of the game, to those who followed development on a daily basis. It's entirely possible my experience was skewed by being here for so long!
Ah-ha! I think you may have found the difference in our perspectives! I did NOT follow DXHR at all during development because I had no faith it would be any good so I tried to just ignore it. Then when it came up as pre-order on steam I watched the trailer and fell in love with the game. So I skipped the whole process of following it in development, which from what I have read retrospectively looks like it was a pretty rough ride for DX fans.

Berr
14th Jul 2013, 04:02
It is believable within the confines of that game. Borderlands used a unique art style and guess what? It works for that game and what's going on in the game world, characters, etc. Okami used a unique art style and guess what? It works for that game and what's going on in the game world, characters, etc. Gears, GOW, etc, it's the same with DX:HR. The colors were used in a unique way to set it apart from other games and to make the DX:HR world seem alive in its own way. Concerning belief, over two million people have purchased the game, it has received great reviews and it was actually praised for the art style. You're in the minority here and like I said, if it were up to you we'd be playing dot matrix games.

Q4T.

Except your last point is wrong, if it were up to CyperP we'd be playing Deus Ex 1 ;)

CyberP
14th Jul 2013, 04:07
With my soon to be finalised mod installed :D


It is believable within the confines of that game. Borderlands used a unique art style and guess what? It works for that game and what's going on in the game world, characters, etc. Okami used a unique art style and guess what? It works for that game and what's going on in the game world, characters, etc. Gears, GOW, etc, it's the same with DX:HR. The colors were used in a unique way to set it apart from other games and to make the DX:HR world seem alive in its own way. Concerning belief, over two million people have purchased the game, it has received great reviews and it was actually praised for the art style. You're in the minority here and like I said, if it were up to you we'd be playing dot matrix games.

Certainly does work for those games. Not for the Deus Ex I know and love though.

HERESY
14th Jul 2013, 04:22
And I am gonna play it with your mod installed. :thumb:

FrankCSIS
14th Jul 2013, 04:28
Not in disagreement with most of what can be read here, but I think the style behind Gears of War was better integrated into the entire process. It's unique, if footballers with chainsaws attached to their guns can be considered unique, but it works extremely well with the over-the-top gameplay. I've said some nasty things about GoW and its sequels, but unlike many people, the style is actually my favorite part of it all. It assumed what kind of game it was, and boldly went all in with the style to support their gameplay. There is praise to be given here. In copious amount.

Without insulting anyone, as it is truly not my goal, I think HR could have worked just as well with pretty much any equally good looking palettes. The art was stylised, but not necessarily put at the service of the game, or integrated to support a point or another.

It's the subtle difference between Minority Report and Road to Perdition. Two amazing directors of photography. Two stylish films, regardless of how much we may have liked one or the other. But Minority showcases its style for no real reason through photography, while Road puts photography at the service of the film. It becomes strangely more obvious once you read Dick's Minority Report. Of everything he wrote, it's one of his least stylised stories. It could have literally been filmed in your local DMV office.

CyberP
14th Jul 2013, 04:29
And I am gonna play it with your mod installed. :thumb:

:)

Wouldn't recommend it, it's designed for veterans, but you could just stick it on easy mode but you will still likely have a hard time. Knowledge of the game is a requirement really, but it does improve some really awesome things (video coming tomorrow).
I'll prep myself for your negative review in advance :p

Lucifer
14th Jul 2013, 08:13
I am waiting for this mod gmdx too.

1nflu3n2
15th Jul 2013, 15:13
Also, I'm going to call you on saying Human Revolution is bland and 'look exactly the same from beginning to end'. A quick google search found me these:
Detroit train station - greens, greys, a dark orange stripe - no gold:
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/522947-deus-ex-human-revolution-windows-screenshot-punk-dancerss.jpg
Talking to Eliza - green everywhere plus a bit of purple - no gold:
http://www.dpadmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution-01.jpg
Hengsha streets - black, white, gold, orange, green and blue - lots of colours!:
http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/pc/d/e/deus-ex-human-revolution-pc-1314441398-149.jpg

As I have already demonstrated with screenshot evidence, it is untrue to say that DXHR looked the same from beginning to end or did not have other colours at all.

This resumes DXHR color palette well: shades of brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shades_of_brown). If you've played the game you know the rest are exceptions.

Berr
15th Jul 2013, 23:20
This resumes DXHR color palette well: shades of brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shades_of_brown). If you've played the game you know the rest are exceptions.

I don't disagree! There is certainly a lot of gold, yellow, orange and brown in the colour palette. Although other colours do go well beyond 'exceptions' - there are highlights and details in other colours everywhere, but it is on top of a brown/gold base.

Only reason I was arguing is because Shralla (and a few others) were insulting Eidos, saying the colour palette was done for reasons other than deliberate style choice, was a mistake, and also exaggerating quite significantly saying that there was ONLY shades of brown in the game.

Also, I must admit The Missing Link toned back the 'gold' a lot and looked absolutely fantastic. So maybe the next DX game will have less obvious gold hues?

1nflu3n2
16th Jul 2013, 12:56
Ok, I understand there was a purpose for the gold theme, but in the game it muffles all the other colors. The gold (which is mostly yellow) is embedded everywhere - even in greys - and since yellow is one of the most tiring colors for the eyes - and you get a lot time exposed to it - I got fatigued pretty quickly to the point of not wanting to finish the game. Look at this scene at Tong's office (http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps3/deus-ex-human-revolution/screenshots/gameShotI d,527799/), you can't 'rest' your eyes in the scenery (i.e. paintings) because everything is yellow coated, and this is true for most part of the game.

Also because of this and the lighting you never feel you're in a dark spot/place when it should be (vents, some alleys, tunnels and niches). When everything is so bright it ruins the fantasy of sneaking in the dark.

And, yes, The Missing Link soothed some of this isues since the colors stood out over a colder grey making places look darker and with more contrast to it. I agree that if DXHR looked like that at launch there probably would be less fuss about it, and I hope the sequel learns from this.

Lucifer
12th Sep 2013, 08:26
I checked the forum and I found that the streets in Cyberpunk 2077 will look something like this
http://static.tumblr.com/p4xqot8/NkWlnwkpq/portfolio_slug_by_fealasy-d3fq3d2.jpg
maybe we have a chance for business with the Omar?

SageSavage
12th Sep 2013, 11:38
Oh, they nailed it again! Delicious!

CyberP
12th Sep 2013, 11:47
If you cannot jump I will be very disappointed. It's one thing that pissed me off a ton with teh Witcher.

Edit: And THIS is my new wallpaper. Absolutely gorgeous.

EricaLeeV
12th Sep 2013, 14:51
Exciting and inspiring.

Inspiring indeed.


Edit: To clarify to people...this isn't from Cyberpunk 2077. This is just a concept piece done by one Riana Moller in 2011, who does not seem to work for CD Projekt Red.

JCpies
12th Sep 2013, 16:36
lulz.

FrankCSIS
12th Sep 2013, 17:58
Exciting and inspiring.

Inspiring indeed.


Edit: To clarify to people...this isn't from Cyberpunk 2077. This is just a concept piece done by one Riana Moller in 2011, who does not seem to work for CD Projekt Red.

Wellllllllll....If she's not on CD's payroll. Ahem. This is your cue, EM!

PS: Stunning, is what comes to mind.