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xaduha2
18th Jun 2013, 14:40
Deus Ex: The Fall is not about "mobile vs next gen" - it's about bringing Deus Ex to a whole new audience who might have never otherwise had a chance to experience the DX universe and lore that we all love so much.


The Deus Ex franchise has always delivered high quality and Deus Ex: The Fall will continue this trend on mobile platforms. Deus Ex: The Fall will be a true HD experience, just like Human Revolution.


This game really is a HD-quality, true Deus Ex experience

Premise 1: Deus Ex universe and lore are somehow unique
Premise 2: The Deus Ex franchise has always delivered high quality
Premise 3: HR and TF = true Deus Ex experience

It's a gray area, to say the least.

Ashpolt
18th Jun 2013, 15:08
I'm far more gameplay- than plot-focused, and I've been saying for years that I'd love a Deus Ex style game set in gangland Chicago in the 30s, so I went for option 2.

It's also why I found playing Thief a tiny bit frustrating: with its first person stealth, lean keys and actual melee mechanics, I was sat there thinking "goddamn it, why couldn't we have had these things in DXHR?" :P

CyberP
18th Jun 2013, 15:15
Premise 1: Deus Ex universe and lore are somehow unique
Premise 2: The Deus Ex franchise has always delivered high quality
Premise 3: HR and TF = true Deus Ex experience

It's a gray area, to say the least.

Heh, I wouldn't look too much into Biskit's words, he is just the community guy. He likely has his own opinion on it. Whenever he posts he is in EM support mode understandably. The devs themselves said DX: Defiance was to be a "true" DX game (I know it was a joke thank [insert deity], but it gave me hope for future projects, that they wanted to make a "true" DX).
They start paying me good money I just might go turncoat as a representative and start feeding you BS. As long as they allow me to develop Deus Ex: Human Revolution: Fan's Cut on the side. (We can work out a better title later). :D

SageSavage
18th Jun 2013, 15:30
I would like EM to improve on HR by using the "veterans" complaints. They went in the right direction, so let em use that experience and feedback (although my hopes are not particularily high in that regard).

I also want more FP-Action-RPGs in general so this is not a question of either this or that.

xaduha2
18th Jun 2013, 16:36
My point - DX universe isn't that special. But SE wants to build a proper francise out of it with as many offshoots as possible. What was special about DX? Gameplay, though it wasn't exactly HD experience :lmao:

khm-khm

I want that gameplay. People in their right mind shouldn't buy stuff just because it has a logo on it.

SageSavage
18th Jun 2013, 17:18
What was so special about DX?

1.) It was proper cyberpunk! It shouldn't feel that special. It had to feel like a very grounded in reality near future.
2.) It felt prophetic and it was.
3.) It tackled much more mature themes then most other games at the time (and today). It felt more philosphic and political then most other games. Sure, some of it is just as immature as other games but still.
4.) The UNATCO/NSF-twist was pretty cool writing
5.) The world felt pretty consistent with its countless bits of information (books, newspapers, emails etc) and multiple blurbs of all those NPCs and mini-storys like the Rentons.
6.) The multiple endings-thing wasn't a common thing back then.
7.) (...)

CyberP
18th Jun 2013, 17:51
What was so special about DX?

1.) It was proper cyberpunk! It shouldn't feel that special. It had to feel like a very grounded in reality near future.
2.) It felt prophetic and it was.
3.) It tackled much more mature themes then most other games at the time (and today). It felt more philosphic and political then most other games. Sure, some of it is just as immature as other games but still.
4.) The UNATCO/NSF-twist was pretty cool writing
5.) The world felt pretty consistent with its countless bits of information (books, newspapers, emails etc) and multiple blurbs of all those NPCs and mini-storys like the Rentons.
6.) The multiple endings-thing wasn't a common thing back then.
7.) (...)

Is that it? To quote hmm who was it: "DX is a perfect storm of design".
Sure, it's not actually perfect, some really jarring flaws, but it is in it's own league imo.
I couldn't do it justice attempting to detail it all.

SageSavage
18th Jun 2013, 17:55
Is that it?
see 7.)

CodenameD
19th Jun 2013, 09:05
What was so special about DX?

1.) It was proper cyberpunk! It shouldn't feel that special. It had to feel like a very grounded in reality near future.
2.) It felt prophetic and it was.
3.) It tackled much more mature themes then most other games at the time (and today). It felt more philosphic and political then most other games. Sure, some of it is just as immature as other games but still.
4.) The UNATCO/NSF-twist was pretty cool writing
5.) The world felt pretty consistent with its countless bits of information (books, newspapers, emails etc) and multiple blurbs of all those NPCs and mini-storys like the Rentons.
6.) The multiple endings-thing wasn't a common thing back then.
7.) (...)

7.) Likable characters (and even enemies). I felt sorry for Gunther.
8.) Extremely descriptive and detailed. Every item in the game is catalogued and described in vast detail.
9.) Multi part health system. Even for the enemies. Rarely seen in FPSes back in those days and still rarely seen. Devs are lazy and use a plain old variable to store health in most games. I loved how shooting at the hands caused them to drop their weapons. Also unlike most other games, enemies (and even bots) actually did not have unlimited ammo. They'd run out of ammo just like the player and resort to either going melee or run away. Nice touch!
10.) Kickass soundtrack. This may be relative to the player but all those expecting a cyberpunk atmosphere were not disappointed.
11.) Exellent map design. The secret floor in alex's office. Maps had secrets like this you'd take 10 years to find without a guide.
12.) Ability to skip a boss if players were tactical enough. Or atleast get by without killing them. An Exception is Anna Navarre (whom you could still kill without spending a single bullet).
13.) Choices and Concequence system. You can let Paul live, or die depending on what you choose to do. You can let the Smuggler live, or die depending on what you choose to do. If you did not do a certain thing, your pilot would not make it. And by the time you know it, it'd be too late.
14.) Skill System. I don't know why modern devs hate this formula to the point that Deus Ex's sequel and prequel did not even touch this. Clearly there were several main ways to build your character: those relying on augmentations and those relying on pure skills. Then there were those who relied on both. This system contrasts well with the game's aug system and may have been the single most reason I loved Deus Ex for: Choice!

I could come up with new points if I looked even harder but I think all these points are sufficient enough. I never get tired of this. :D

As for the vote itself, I'd rather have SE and EM work on a new IP but similar to DX than use the DX name for their upcoming games. The classic DX was great to the point that no other game with a 'DX' name can live up to it: it's a legend. This is why I'd always prefer Dishonored over any new Thief that comes out.

I always prefer a 'spiritual sequel' than a real one when there is a major change in dev, no matter how good they are. Kinda like how DX was a spiritual sequel to System Shock 2 instead of being called System Shock 3.

AlexOfSpades
19th Jun 2013, 11:35
"POLL: Would you rather another EM's Deus Ex or a true Deus Ex 1 experience but in another setting?"

Maybe that would be a good title or someone can come up with something better?

Also, Option 2 of course.

CyberP
19th Jun 2013, 14:50
I...don't know. Obviously option 2 but I think EM have what it takes when they are finally done farming paper, maybe.

Voted option 1. HR was great, if they just perfect the design and execution....I think I've gone soft.

Tverdyj
19th Jun 2013, 17:37
Option 2 all the way. New settings, similar gameplay. New setting=new name for "powers/augs"=new lore=new possibilities that have to tie into it..

Shralla
19th Jun 2013, 18:30
Everybody's over Deus Ex already? :(

68_pie
19th Jun 2013, 18:55
Everybody's over Deus Ex already? :(

I'm pretty sure they're just saying that they would rather have a non-DX EM game than a DX EM game.

Shralla
19th Jun 2013, 19:28
Thief is definitely a step in the right direction from the decisions they made in HR. I'm convinced that a sequel would be even more steps towards a "real" Deus Ex game. (airquotes because clearly HR is a real Deus Ex game, but I mean more in line with the original) There are still third-person elements to Thief, but much fewer than in Deus Ex, which brought lean keys as well.

That and a Deus Ex game with proper technology and not a crappy recycled Tomb Raider engine might be nice.

xaduha2
19th Jun 2013, 19:54
Let me ask you this - Is there a possibility that Dishonored had a positive effect on the development of Thief?

Shralla
19th Jun 2013, 20:41
I said as much after Dishonored was successful, though I was more thinking about a potential Deus Ex sequel. It certainly proved that first-person ONLY games are still in demand.

CyberP
19th Jun 2013, 20:43
Thief is definitely a step in the right direction from the decisions they made in HR.

I prefer takedowns, regen health and third person cover to the scripted QTE "cinematic" scene of Thief.
At least HR featured none of that nonsense.....

MasterTaffer
19th Jun 2013, 20:55
I prefer takedowns, regen health and third person cover to the scripted QTE "cinematic" scene of Thief.
At least HR featured none of that nonsense.....

You mean the escape scene where there's one second long QTE where Garrett catches a ledge? I took fifteen minutes of the bridge scene to complete and there was literally one second of that which was made of QTEs. That's 0.001% of just the bridge part of the experience, and 0.0002% of the over all hour and fifteen minutes I played.

Oh dear, this (LITERAL) one second in the total demo is completely unacceptable so the game must be garbage.

Perspective is important and hyperbole gets you nowhere.

xaduha2
19th Jun 2013, 20:59
Let's be honest here - EM will expand on HR, not DX. They will try to please new fans, who liked HR the way it was.
Hopes are not high all around. 'Moving in the right direction' my donkey

CyberP
19th Jun 2013, 21:08
Perspective is important and hyperbole gets you nowhere.

That RPS article made it out to be a deal breaker....
Sure, it's just one guy's perspective, but he was descriptive.

And no, it doesn't mean the whole game is bad but that **** drives me nuts.

You caught me out, it was hyperbole. Wont happen again you sneak ;)
However I basically said I prefer a cover system etc to cinematic QTE's, I wasn't saying anything about Nu-Thief as a whole.

MasterTaffer
19th Jun 2013, 21:16
That RPS article made it out to be a deal breaker....
Sure, it's just one guy's perspective, but he was descriptive.

Actually, having played it, I can tell you the RPS article was sparse on actual details about the experience. It was vague as well as had a few factual inaccuracies in it that were hard to get wrong if you were paying even a little attention. I was having a conversation with Ashpolt about this yesterday. As I said in the Q&A thread on the Thief side, it came across as someone passing off second hand knowledge as personal experience.

Typically RPS seems to get things right, but in this case the game he was describing and the one I played there didn't match up in multiple ways.

CyberP
19th Jun 2013, 21:18
I may take a look over the Thief forums later to see the "truth" then ;)

CodenameD
20th Jun 2013, 05:55
Let's be honest here - EM will expand on HR, not DX. They will try to please new fans, who liked HR the way it was.
Hopes are not high all around. 'Moving in the right direction' my donkey

And that's exactly why I'd have loved a game called "Human Revolution" more than a game called "Deus Ex: Human Revolution". Because I'd know- as a spiritual successor and not a Deus Ex game, it's fantastic!

And that's the point of this poll anyway.

xaduha2
25th Jun 2013, 00:12
R2QXQRDfI7w

Don't judge me too harshly for this bump, I'm bored

CodenameD
26th Jun 2013, 04:59
R2QXQRDfI7w

Don't judge me too harshly for this bump, I'm bored

*Judges too harshly*

CyberP
26th Jun 2013, 05:08
Bump well spent I say! I had a listen. Not my favorite track in VTM:B but one of the better ones.

hybridex
27th Jun 2013, 17:35
And that's exactly why I'd have loved a game called "Human Revolution" more than a game called "Deus Ex: Human Revolution". Because I'd know- as a spiritual successor and not a Deus Ex game, it's fantastic!

And that's the point of this poll anyway.

It should had been DX3: Human Evolution, then DX4: Human Revolution or Rebellion.. Would an Adam Jensen trilogy be too far fetched?